#wego fire knight elder

[crumblingfaggotazula]

The Fire Knights

[katyspersonal]

nobody:

Kood: Oh, so, you "like" Messmer? Say the exact amount of strength applied which it took him to impale every single Dancing Lion that he hunted. Name the day he finished reforging his spear for it to become throwable and how many times did he have to throw it. Say the exact timing, down to tens of second, which it took him to cu-

Queelign: I am literally lurking in the cemetery waiting for those graceless Hornsents to visit the graves of their killed ones to ambush and kill them too, Queen Marika would be so proud of me! :D

Wego: Man I wish I had friends, too bad I literally have no one, I am so lonely I'll have to resort to resurrecting dead people :( *spoken literally nearby fellow Knights, including his literal pupil*

Salza: Hey just because I take #1 place amongst everyone else in the Crusade in terms of how many villages and houses I've obliterated doesn't mean I am no longer an intellectual elite. I am the most civilised, cultured and intelligent person here.

Hilde: These idiots do not understand that even the Erdtree itself stand on cultural appropriation! How can we fight in the name of Marika and uh... I think that guy literally named Whore at some point, with that big lion...? if we ignore how much was stolen from the Storm Lord and Godskin Apostles? I swear I am the only one who truly gets it smh. Can't wait to get rid of all Hornsent already so we can use their knowledge to build our OWN Divine Spiral, it will be sick af 👀

Messmer: Hahah no one loves my mother as much as I do, I understand what is better for her Order more than she does herself *mood swing* I hate that bitch, why she never loved me?! *crashes a head off a statue of her* *mood swing* Oh god I am the worst being I am more of a curse upon her than any of these graceless barbarians were ever, disowning me was not enough, she should have killed me... *mood swing* I should have burnt her and her Erdtree instead while I had the chance to do so, only in death we could stand equal *mood swing* I love her so much I can at least find comfort in destroying everyone who doesn't fit her world, it is the least I can do to atone for being born graceless myself *mood swing*

Rellana: Pledge to the Golden Order was a weird era but now we are so back, Stars/Moon and Fire have always been together, since the times of Fire Giants and Astrologers! But to think of it, does the 'Fire' that swears to exterminate everything spurned of the grace of the Erdtree count, if it was Erdtree's enemy? Strange, how the very thing that existed as its enemy got tamed to serve it instead? Dammit, my flawless brilliant logic got a crack in it all because of Messmer's mommy issues!!! (still love him and will die for him tho 🥺💙)

Andreas: I can excuse fascism and genocide, but I draw the line at being a SNAKE!

Huw: <prev so real, had I known my bestie was a snake I'd definitely not go and have sooooo much fun hunting Divine Beasts. I am so deceived.

Edredd: To think of it, more soldiers got executed here for no longer wanting to do genocide than fell from the blades of Hornsents, but idk a job is a job 🤷‍♂️

Garrew: *has the most fucking questionable Crucible aspect ever seen except no one wants to actually question it*

[nuadha-airgeadlamh]

concerning the specimen storehouse

Since the DLC released, I've seen some thoughts floating around about the Specimen Storehouse, Messmer, and how the Crusade contingent viewed the Hornsent. Specifically, I think it's quite a common idea to think of the Storehouse as a good thing, a sign from Messmer that he harbored a modicum of sympathy for the Hornsent and wanted to preserve their culture. I want to explain why I think this idea is very flawed, and why, on the contrary, I view the Storehouse as another testament to the horrors delivered upon the Hornsent by Messmer and his Crusade.

The ashes of Fire Knight Hilde give a glimpse into the construction of the Specimen Storehouse:

Hilde was a dear friend to Salza the sage, and joined those who urged that the specimens be preserved. Hilde's ashes were enshrined as a charm to protect the storehouse.

Hilde and Salza were part of a faction of Fire Knights who wanted the specimens to be preserved. This faction had to "urge" for this to occur; therefore, this must not have been a universal opinion among the Fire Knights, and a convincing case had to be brought forward in order for the Specimen Storehouse to go ahead. As this same item description points out, the Fire Knights answer directly to Messmer, so he would most likely have the final say. However, this makes it clear that the Specimen Storehouse was not his idea. If it was, there would have been no urging needed— he is the ruler of this keep and he makes the decisions.

The information on Salza further characterizes this faction within the Fire Knights. The item description for Salza's Hood sketches out his stand against violence:

"A disciple of the elder Wego, he refused to burn down an old ruin, at the risk of his own life."

Given Salza's positioning and its relative lack of damage, I would hazard that the "old ruin" in question here is Rauh. The description states that Salza protects this ruin "at the risk of his own life", and his placement puts him directly in opposition to Shadow Keep. He attacks at the end of the bridge and faces towards the keep; he targets us, and we are coming out of the keep. I think all of these facts point to the conclusion that Salza's instincts towards preservation estranged him from the rest of the Fire Knights, and that he is literally standing in defense of Rauh at the moment you encounter him. Why else would he be standing directly in front of Rauh, facing Shadow Keep, if he was not defending Rauh from Shadow Keep?

The description for Salza's incantation "Rain of Fire" reiterates his less violent outlook, but also importantly points out his hypocrisy.

"Salza's disdain for barbarism never waned, even as he burned more villages and scorched more land than any other."

Salza didn't want to engage in such violence, and he protected Rauh at the risk of his own life. But that doesn't erase the reality that he leaves behind a disgusting legacy of destruction and death. It begs the question: why do these specimens need preserving in the first place?

If the Crusade had never been waged, then the Specimen Storehouse would never have needed to exist. It sounds all nice and sweet on paper that there are Fire Knights out there "preserving Hornsent culture", but they are the very reason why this culture needs protecting. The Specimen Storehouse is a monument to their own atrocities: its very existence depends on an annihilation they orchestrated. Hilde, Salza, and the rest of them can be disgusted by their own actions as much as they want, but they are ultimately responsible.

It's also important to point out that neither Hilde's ashes nor Salza's Hood mentions any sympathy for the Hornsent themselves. They wanted the specimens to be preserved and protected a ruin from destruction; nowhere do these descriptions mention Salza and Hilde's great sympathy for the Hornsent's plight. Salza's big stand against Shadow Keep is protecting a ruin�� not a city full of people, a ruin. He has a "disdain for barbarism", not a bleeding heart for those who are dying. In the Salza's Hood description, Salza is described as the "sage of the Fire Knights", and the term "sage" describes a person of great wisdom. The Specimen Storehouse is a giant library, a great depository of stolen Hornsent scholarship. I would hazard to say that Salza and Hilde's moves towards preservation stem more from a thirst for knowledge than a humanitarian urge to save Hornsent culture.

I've also seen it claimed that the shadow-men who attack with Messmer-fire in the Specimen Storehouse are Hornsent, and use this information to extrapolate about the Storehouse at large. However, this isn't true:

Here are images of Hornsent shadow-men in Belurat and Gravesite Plain. Their horns are clear, defined, and opaque, even with the shadow filter over their models.

This is an image of the spirit in front of Scorched Ruins without the shadow filter. You can see that the style of the horns remains consistent across designs.

Compare this with images of the shadow-men in the Specimen Storehouse:

Their head designs are markedly different from those of the Hornsent in Belurat. Their supposed "horns" are wispy and vague.

You can best see it in this photo where I'm clipping into his head that these "horns" are actually a layer of unruly hair. The little tufts of hair poking out from their heads can easily be mistaken as horns, but they do not match the other shadow-men in Belurat. Furthermore, their clothing also differs. While the Hornsent shadow-men wear tunics, the men in the Storehouse wear garments similar to togas. I think it's far more likely that these are Crusade scholars who are under the same shadow effect that happens to the other spirits in the Shadowlands. There is no Hornsent presence in the Storehouse.

Finally I would like to come to what Messmer thinks about the Specimen Storehouse, and for that, there's little that's actually textual. We know from Salza and Hilde that there was backlash to the construction of the Storehouse and the preservation of Hornsent knowledge from the wider Crusade contingent, and we know he must have consented to the Storehouse's construction, but there's no hard evidence as to what he truly thought of it. What we can do, however, is take a look at Messmer's characterization in-game and speculate from there what his opinions might have been, and what we can see about Messmer is that he clearly despises the Hornsent.

We know from our vengeance-seeking Hornsent that he thought of them as "savages"; the furnace golems are tailor-made to prey upon the Hornsents' fears through their references to the fire giants; the existence of the jar clinic and the protections around the shaman village imply he has knowledge of what happened to Marika and her people, which would only intensify his hatred. And we can't forget that he has taken it upon himself willingly to literally annihilate them from the face of the earth. Now, that's not to say that Messmer isn't a person capable of empathy and kindness; we know that through his relationships with Gaius, his Fire Knights, and his common soldiers. However, just because he can have sympathy for these people does not mean that that translates to the Hornsent. If I went into all the details of this I would double the length of this post (in fact I will probably make a whole separate post expanding on this), but I think Messmer as a character is allowed to contain contradictions— he can be capable of great cruelty and great kindness. I think it's clear from everything I've explained above that there are many pieces of evidence to indicate that Messmer did not harbor secret sympathy for the Hornsent.

Therefore, I would guess his approval of the Specimen Storehouse aligns with what I theorized for Salza and Hilde. The Storehouse is useful. It's a depository of an entire culture's knowledge; it would be foolish to throw that all away. As I've stated, the Storehouse's entire existence depends entirely on the genocide being enacting by Messmer and his Crusade. They are engaging in preservation only for their own benefit. The Hornsent gain nothing by having their own scholarly work snatched away from them and hoarded by the very ones who are murdering them.

[sahashbelvanie]

The Fire Knights of the Impaler

I just wanted to talk about a few of the lesser-known Fire Knights we encounter throughout the DLC—aside from Queelign—because even though they're obscure, each has their own minor story that I find compelling for how they humanize both the members of Messmer’s army and Messmer himself.

So, what exactly is a Fire Knight? Fire Knights are warriors born of Erdtree nobility who wield Messmer’s flame through incantations, as they were unable to embody the flame inherently when it was bestowed upon them. Because of their involvement in the so-called “holy war,” they were scorned by Erdtree society and ultimately cast out from their homes. Despite this, they chose to remain loyal to Messmer, bound to him by oath.

Within the military, Fire Knights hold the highest rank, subordinate to no one but their lord, Messmer. They know him intimately, and not only accepted but understood his true form as a fiery serpent. They recognized that such an existence caused their lord immense suffering—both physical and mental.

Traditionally, Fire Knights wore pointed helms and armor draped in red cloaks, adorned with a twin-serpent gold motif at the neck. Their enchanted weapons—ranging from daggers to greatswords—resembled flowing flames. They also carried sacred seals modeled after Messmer’s emblem: a gold ring encircling a flame, which enhanced the power of their fire incantations.

Some Fire Knights even authored crafting manuals used by Messmer’s foot soldiers—guides for creating fiery tools like fire grease or ember-based fire coils from materials found on the battlefield.

Something I forgot to mention is that the standard helm worn by the Fire Knights actually provides slight boosts to health, stamina, and equip load, while their armor enhances the potency of Messmer’s flame incantations.

Now, onto the known members of the Fire Knight order (excluding Queelign, because I just don’t feel like it haha):

The "leader" or most prominent among the Fire Knights is a man named Kood. The English script gives him the rank of Captain, but from what I can tell, he simply stands above the others in either skill or authority. His helm is shaped in the likeness of Messmer’s winged serpents—creatures said to be wise and noble companions who help suppress the wicked serpent gnawing at Messmer from within. Given this symbolism, and Kood’s position as the lead Fire Knight, it makes me wonder if he served as a kind of advisor or confidant to Messmer, much like the winged serpents themselves.

Kood’s helm enhances the battle arts used by Fire Knights, and he even wields his own unique technique: Flame Spear. With it, he adopts a poised, thrusting stance before unleashing a fiery spear straight ahead. He stands guard before the entrance to Messmer’s dark chambers.

Wego is the “elder” of the Fire Knights. In this context, the term elder refers to an old man, wise with age and experience. Wego is a man utterly consumed by loneliness—it corrodes his heart. This is likely because he has lost those dear to him, as suggested by the two loosened death masks he wears, vertically stacked atop one another. He is also knowledgeable in the arts of resurrection.

This somewhat reminds me of the necromancer Garris, who, after losing his family, dedicated himself to ancient death hexes. He wielded a flail with copper heads, each attached to the handle by chains and crafted in the likeness of his departed loved ones.

Wego may have lost his family—or perhaps comrades. The spiritual nature of Messmer’s flame drew his attention, and he sought to incorporate it into his resurrection arts. However, when Messmer’s flame took root in the corpses he tried to revive, it did not restore their souls. Instead, it produced shambling husks that brought Wego no comfort.

Wego is one of only two Fire Knights known to have spoken dialogue, hoarsely commanding: “Fire, take seed in death and rise again.” The stacked death masks he wears reduce the focus required to summon spirits—fittingly so. He is found alongside his soulless companions within the sunken church district of Messmer’s castle.

The elder Wego had an apprentice named Salza, who would become the wisest among the Fire Knights. Salza was a man who despised barbarity and needless violence, yet he became most notorious for setting numerous Hornsent villages and townships ablaze during the crusade.

However, Salza risked his life when he counseled his superior—either Captain Kood or their lord, Messmer—to spare the old ruins of Rauh, believing that burning such a place would be a grave mistake. Alongside his dear friend, the Fire Knight Hilde, and others, Salza also advocated for the preservation of various Hornsent specimens within the Shadowkeep’s storehouse.

I presume Hilde is a woman, given the feminine connotation of the name. She would perish during the crusade, and her remains were enshrined as a guardian spirit within the storehouse. It’s rather fitting that she would be laid to rest among the very specimens whose preservation she once championed.

Salza is credited with the incantation Rain of Fire, in which he calls upon a burning cloud. With arms outstretched, he yells, “Rain of Fire,” as fiery rain pours down from the sky while he guards the entrance to Rauh. His pointed helm is wrapped in excess cloth, giving the impression of an enlarged head. Fittingly, the helm boosts one’s intelligence.

Seeing the Fire Knight portraits from @arnaerr made me want to write this, lol.

[swallowtail-ageha]

Minor npc that i rotate in my head of the week fire knight salza like

A disciple of the elder Wego, he refused to burn down an old ruin, at the risk of his own life.

And

Salza's disdain for barbarism never waned, even as he burned more villages and scorched more land than any other.

Like yes! Embody the whole hypocrisy of the crusade!!! Cry about barbarism and civilization and the need to preserve ancient cultures while slaughtering mercilessly the members of said culture because you yourself deem them barbaric!

[luminaryofblood]

A scroll made of white tree bark. Few can decipher the scroll, which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow. "A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel."

Helm of Wego, elder among the Fire Knights. Two warped death masks stacked one atop the other. Reduces FP used to summon spirits. Gnawed at by loneliness, the old man turned his attention to the spirituality of Messmer's flame, using it in a rite of resurrection. Yet the soulless bodies he brought to life were no comfort to poor Wego.

Like maybe the whole "Using Mohg's Body as a vessel for Radahn's Soul" wasn't necessarily part of the secret rite and was just sort of its own thing?

Because Fire Knight Wego's got some similar stuff going on in resurrection, though the bodies were soulless.

[recusantchicky]

gravekeeper/necromancy lore to back my ranting up

Grave Cricket:

Cricket that produces a raspy cry. Material used for crafting items. Mainly found near stone coffins. The sound of these crickets are often taken to be the rustling of the restless dead, or sometimes the sound of their calling voices.

used in

Polter Stone:

Contrivance of the grave keepers made from spiritgrave stone. Craftable item.

Creates noises imitative of human presence where it lands when thrown.

Said to have been used by the solitary grave keepers to distract themselves from their longing for company.

Gravekeeper's Cookbook

A record of crafting techniques of the grave keepers who watch over those who rest in the realm of shadow. Acquire the knowledge to craft the following: - Piquebone Arrow - Piquebone Arrow (Fletched) - Piquebone Bolt

those arrows use

Congealed Putrescence:

Bruise-colored putrescence that oozes from stone coffins, congealed into a large viscous lump. Material used for crafting items. Found underground in the land to where stone coffins drift. The putrescence is what remains of the impure lives kept within the stone coffins.

some more gravekeeper lore

Gravekeeper's Brainpan

Skull bone of an old grave keeper. Material used for crafting items. Mainly found in hidden grave of Charo. The old grave keepers are boatsmen, and continue to summon the dead even after withering away.

Deathmask Helm

Helm of Wego, elder among the Fire Knights. Two warped death masks stacked one atop the other.

Reduces FP used to summon spirits.

Gnawed at by loneliness, the old man turned his attention to the spirituality of Messmer's flame, using it in a rite of resurrection. Yet the soulless bodies he brought to life were no comfort to poor Wego.

[katyspersonal]

So like... thoughts on Messmer's crew? Not the man himself, just the guys he hired.

I actually found the remaining two Fire Knights just recently! :D I didn't post about it yet, but I assume this is all of them! ...I hope. Shadow's Keep has too many turns. Who knows.

This is sweet how they all are close with Messmer and stood with him no matter what.... Unlike THESE traitors:

(Sorry I forgot to copy the screenshots so have bad phone images fshhds) Like @heraldofcrow said earlier, it is really stupid how they could accept like genocides and whatever but drew the line at him being a snake sdfhfghds Well, Fire Knights definitely didn't!

Queelign was the first one I've met, and apparently in the wrong order since I missed him in Belurat and had to go back there! And I instantly hated that zealot, even before I had the picture of what exactly Fire Knights were!

^ As if Queelign's dialogue was not enough, he also dropped THIS! The reason I will ALWAYS respect Miyazaki no matter what is that he always finds the way to throw a jab at this particular grudge at human race fsdhfdsh

He is still a terrible person, but since then I warmed up to him when I've found some potential in him! He is not only the most fleshed out from the Fire Knights, but also in JUST the right way! He is very passionate and fanatical, but also very genuine and naive with his feelings. And he not only wants to be like Messmer, but also has very strong fixation on Marika! Like I keep joking, she is such a bad mother that even people who aren't her children have mommy issues over her fhhdsf

But he also, interestingly, reflects that weaker, childish part of Messmer that still wants his mom to love him. Whereas Messmer is at least good at repressing it, with Queelign it is completely loose and earnest, and the guy is probably not aware! He IS like a little version of himself in this way.. Not sure whether Messmer dislikes him, or pities him, or maybe at least several times told him to NOT try to be like him! In any case, it is really cool how there is the guy who gives that interesting insight. You could write headcanons essays on the psychology between Queeling and Messmer, or just Queelign. I wrote an essay on what could transpire if Tarnished healed him instead (I believe he dies when we find him, from deadly wounds since we only access his chamber after beating him twice).

Like, you can work with this character, you see what I mean? I never found a similar rambling potential in, say, Alfred or Lautrec. They're religious fanatics too, yet that was exactly ALL I could tell about them. MEANWHILE I've made like FIVE posts about Queelign already and they are all substancial! And, boy, any writer WANTS a strictly cruel, fanatical, irredeemable, negative character to give something to talk about besides just kicking the topic of them being bad. If you are writer, remember to similarly give the topics of discussion to your villains! I agree with what Izunia said earlier:

+ Correction though: Petrus does NOT belong in the list of fanatics xd He has opposite problem! He is a selfish, opportunistic, corrupt, cowardly parasite that benefits from the religious institution and doesn't actually HAVE any beliefs he will kill and die for. He kills for his benefit, like how he killed Reah after her being rescued clearly so she would not rat him out, ie risk his position as elite cleric! There is a good reason why of all cleric/religious/etc characters he is the only one who has no simps!

This guy kicked my ass a couple of times, but if Fire Knights are Messmer's most important people, that makes him second most important person in his army? ...okay third, after his wife Rellana fsdjhdfhssd Really clever how only the captain wears a helmet fashioned after this creature, since he keeps Messmer's military forces in check here

1) I also assume that the "loneliness" Wego experienced was from having outlived the people he held dear as not only being in the military but also elder! Because why else would he be strictly lonely, if he has friends within the covenant? Like look right here, he had a pupil! :p 2) This implies that disagreeing with Messmer was a huge risk.. but not only Messmer spared him, but also actually listened to his request!

So basically, Salza is okay with burning people and their homes, but he draws the line at destruction of like, culture, knowledge and ancient architecture fshfds And not he alone:

It were Fire Knights who asked Messmer to have the Specimen Storehouse, so there is at least historical remains about the species they destroyed! So as funny as the double standard looks, it makes a lot of sense; like it was mentioned earlier, all Fire Knights were nobles at the Erdtree! Of course they have it internalised to preserve culture and knowledge for the future! They all had to be well-educated and well-cultured people, not sympathising with the type of hatred that aims to erase as much as history! And at the same time, being educated didn't help them to consider not participating in the HoLy cRuSaDe to begin with..

And this is so human. It is very realistic. There is a lingering misconception that it is ignorance, poor quality of living, low class, bad past or all at once that makes people prone to crime, but in reality there are criminals in every class and every demographic. We should not attribute the root of all evil, crimes and harmful prejudices only to concrete group, because this is always just a matter of multiple people gathering and deciding to do something. When it is not mistreatment and despair that drives people to evil, it is power and corruption, because people ARE evil by nature.

_______________

So yeah, I really like what they did with this covenant! They did well with giving the sense of each of them being an individual by naming and distinguishing five characters like this! For Soulsborne games, this is rich x) They have some tweaks to their outfits or weapons, they have characterisation that makes them unlike each other, and THIS is what's wild; how so many people that clearly can and always could think for themselves ended up here! Queelign too! I could speculate that Alfred has been indoctrinated and brainwashed since young age, or that Lautrec lost his marbles after some sort of grasp by Fina, but Queelign apparently was no less of a noble that decided to go like his peers, nor he'd be any more embraced by Marika than everyone else with grace! He is Just Like This fshdfhs

They made the covenant very real an interesting. (Also rich for creating OCs if you like writing awful people and want to be close with Messmer 😔)

[meatdemons]

Ooouuggghh fire knoghts save mmeee

The Fire Knights