#we had like 2 episodes with laena. how did she get her dragon? how did she and daemon fell in love? idk read the books i guess??? wtf

[ride-thedragon]

How I'd Write Rhaena Targaryen in Hotd.

(as someone who wanted to see her plot adapted)

I keep seeing people saying Rhaena fans will be excited for the rumoured change she will experience this season.

Spoiler here

I won't speak on that here without a spoiler warning because I want this to be about her book character and my hope as to how she would've been adapted this season. I wanted to see Rhaena Targaryen as played by Phoebe Campbell and adapted to the world of Hotd, and so far, I haven't. These are the issues I've had so far:

1. Mourning Luke.

The reason we don't have a scene about her and Luceryes after he dies in my opinion is because seeing as they send her off in episode 3 it would make Rhaenyra look odd to not grieve her son at the same time as his fiance. But respectfully, I don't care. We deserved dialogue about the loss she felt. It's a serious issue where her grief and reactions past Laena are overlooked entirely.

Even following her arc this season of feeling resentful, have her feel blamed for not claiming Vhagar, for bring engaged to Luke. Anything to give us that connection.

2. Her reaction to Rhaenyra.

I found it to be really well done the brewing anger with Rhaena then. She seemed like a child fighting for some agency for someone to consider her, and she's met with Rhaenyra’s fatal flaw of refusing to acknowledge and give validity to her children's emotions. I didn't like how the dragon eggs were meant to operate as a catch-all in the narrative so we don't make Rhaenyra look too bad. It was a great attempt and one that I was shocked by because Rhaenyra is wrong.

3. Give her Morning.

If Rhaena nearly died last time she tried to claim a dragon, why not give her her book egg and future dragon before she leaves. This was another failing of the egg scene for me. Not only would adding that pink egg give some mystery to the audience, we would have book lore. Even let Rhaenyra apologise for her original approach and give Rhaena the egg personally, not as a beacon of hope for the house alone but for herself. It's an easy moment that plays into the book narrative better. For those unaware, the eggs were Dany's 3 eggs plus Viserys'.

4. Jeyne Arryn.

No, I did love the they were both angry but not ill mannered. They are talking out of anger and mutual frustration, and by the end, they have a shared interest. My issue is that this is the scene Rhaena finds out about Rhaenys dying and that she isn't with her very young brothers. She deserved another scene later on.

5. Baela

I love that they spoke together and that they addressed actual issues, that's it. I don't like that they don't have more, and that Rhaenys could be with Rhaenyra but not her grandchildren. I wish we got that dynamic.

Moving on to my part, how I'd reconstruct her arc for the season:

Episode 1

1. We let her be the character carrying the emotional weight of losing Luke. They seemed close enough to make it work and were supposed to be married. She carries it past episode 1. She throws something into the fire as well, like a model ship of some kind, or what can be seen as a token she meant to give him when she returned.

Episode 2

2. We give her and Jace a scene. This is like a huge missed opportunity. Unlike Baela, they grew up alongside Luke. Have them discuss the grief and talk about what Jeyne Arryn demanded. That way, it's exercised as an expectation amount to the house that someone will have to go away. Let them talk about who they think is the best option. These are two kids, but they are also supposed to be two politically driven characters, give them that moment.

3. Then we have Rhaenys be the one to tell her that she will go. Rhaenyra seemed so heartless in that scene to me because it wasn't her scene. Rhaena was dismissed and pushed over to fulfil that role when they could have her grandmother tell her. They have the Laena connection. They have the care of her growing up too fast and them needing her to go away. They get to say goodbye in their own way because Rhaenys wouldn't be callous with her, she'd be comforting but tell her to be strong.

Episode 3

4. Baela Scene. Let this be the resentment scene, and allow them to confide in each other. Have baela remind her that unlike the shows chosen narrative, both their parents are dragon claimer who claimed their own dragons late in life. Have Rhaena bring up the fact that she failed last time and let them comfort each other. Hell, let them have a Daemon conversation.

5. Now we can have that scene with Rhaenyra. Let it be a combination of their two conversations where she gives Rhaena the eggs by herself. Tell her it's a great service and have Rhaena still lash out because she doesn't want to do it, because it's something being forced unto her. But have Rhaenyra give her the eggs personally, explain the story of the Conquerors and the dragon eggs of the any let her tell Rhaena she will carry that legacy. Because of all people, Rhaenyra knows what it's like to not be taken seriously and be underestimated in a position. It doesn't have to be courteous, but it also shouldn't be as angry due to Rhaenys.

Episode 4.

Let this be the episode she leaves.

6. She gets to say goodbye to everyone while the plot is unfolding, and Rhaenyra is nowhere to be found. Let Rhaenys, Jace, and Baela send them off to Jeyne Arryn and have their final goodbyes as the eggs go past her. She's scared but she knows what she has to do.

7. She is received in the Vale, not by Jeyne but by some of her banner men who are confused about the dragons. She's holding one of the boys and scolds them for questioning her. And they go off.

Episode 5.

8. Jeyne Arryn conflict. Jeyne expected more dragons, Rhaena asserts herself, and they have a brief heart to heart.

9. Set a scene later in the day to let Rhaena know that Rhaenys is dead and killed by Vhagar. Guilt fester yet again, and Jeyne gives her some advice about that relating it to Rhea because that's her cousin or something.

Episode 6.

I have no idea where the show will be but what I can say is how I'd write her arc from this point in my canon and adaptation

10. Rhaena takes up training Joffrey and Tyraxes, she's comforting him because he misses home but continues her work, she has to prove something to herself and Jeyne.

11. Have her question Jeyne about the men she promised to send, great time to introduce Corwyn. Show her trying to find her footing in the political conversation and win.

12. A scene later on with her and all the boys and Jessamyn Redfort makes an appearance. Tells Rhaena Jeyne is impressed by her audacity if nothing else and let her be a kinder alternative to her partner. (I will not erase lesbians)

Episode 7.

13. Small conflict in the Vale with raising banners because Jeyne actually has a lot of people who have issues with her. Rhaena sees how she uses her discerning to work it out while people attempt to undermine her, and we see Rhaena looking to her for leadership.

14. Rhaena picks up the eggs and starts to show that she is tending to them herself in the hot basket things, that she's made it her personal mission to get one to hatch. We also see her send the letter to the Prince of Pentos.

Episode 8.

15. Jeyne gets the Vale men to rise in a smaller number than promised but a large enough one to send. She checks with Rhaena, and we get our first Corwyn and Rhaena interaction with his two girls. Rhaena had grown a bit in confidence. She's taking her role as seriously as ever.

16. She sees back and gets a letter of acceptance from the prince and a warning from Rhaenyra. Basically, they have to hide the fact that the boys are princes and send them off by themselves.

Why? Vhagar has been seen in the Riverlands, and they have no idea where she's heading past Harrenhall. Whether they send the boys off or not can depend, but I think not yet. Let Rhaena take it into her own hands and plan accordingly. The way Jace does in the books.

And that's the way the season ends. The march to the battle from the perspective of Rhaena Targaryen. Happy tidings, and let's see how well (or not) they land with her character.

[lavlav-lavender]

Having watched the season finale of House of the Dragon, I can finally say with certainty that season 2 was a huge disappointment. 

I know defenders of the show will say, “You would not survive early seasons of Game of Thrones,” or “You only watch for battles and dragons,” but that’s such a bad faith argument. I did survive the early seasons of Game of Thrones. I loved the show back then. And I also loved Succession – a show that revolves around people in the room talking. The thing is, when you make a show that focuses on people talking and political intrigue, the writing must be good. That’s something season 2 of House of the Dragon didn’t have.

It’s not even that the writers didn’t have any good ideas for this season. They were just poorly executed. Sometimes, it felt like the writers built something in one episode only to tear it down in the next.

Daemon’s storyline is one of the examples. It started great. I loved the magical aspect of it, and I was very intrigued by Daemon’s arc. The first vision with young Rhaenyra had me on the floor. It’s probably one of my favourite scenes in this season. It was completely unexpected and such a great idea for Daemon’s storyline in season 2. I loved the idea of him being forced to see how his actions affected the people he loved. I was excited to see how he grapples with guilt over his wrongdoings. We got that for a time – the visions of young Rhaenyra, the brief moment with Laena or Viserys’ first appearance. There was a slight fumble when the writers decided to include a sex scene with Alyssa for some reason, but overall, the first few episodes with Daemon in Harrenhal were solid. Then, the ideas ended, and since they did not have anything more prepared for Daemon, the writers returned to their old rhetoric – Daemon’s desire for the crown.

The problem is that we already went over this in season 1. The change not only cheapened the wonderful moment between Viserys and Daemon in episode 8 and Rhaenyra’s coronation in episode 10, but also completely overshadowed Daemon’s earlier visions(at least for me personally). Even worse, in the end, the visions meant nothing because, in the season finale, Daemon got to see the White Walkers and was told that he and his choices meant nothing. He can’t choose his fate; He’s just a part of a story.

I’m not going to claim the writers hate Daemon. That’d be stupid, and I really want to believe that no one sane would purposefully sabotage their own show simply because the audience loves the character the writers see as a villain. And yet… I also can’t blame people who think this way. There was a moment or two when I also thought that maybe the writers wanted to punish Daemon for being fans’ favourite (or punish the audience for loving Daemon). In this season, they literally stripped him of everything that people loved about Daemon. Almost as if they wanted to say, “This is the guy you like so much? This pathetic, weak man who can’t do anything?”

And that’s part of the problem. Daemon accomplished nothing in this season. His plan to kill Aemond was ridiculous and destined to fail. During his stay at Harrenhal, Daemon acted like a fool. He couldn’t get an army. No one respected him. In the end, he needed a witch and a teenager to do everything for him. It was probably why most of the audience thought his story was dragging and boring. 

I have little to say about Rhaenyra and Alicent. Rhaenyra’s dumb and bland. She was one of my favourite characters in season 1. Now, she’s firmly at the bottom of the list. I don’t like her girl boss persona. 

Alicent shone in every scene she shared with her family. Her conversations with Aegon? Brilliant. Her scenes with Gwayne? Amazing. The brief moments she had with Helaena and Aemond. All great. 

But just like Rhaenyra, Alicent was held back by the writers. Why? Because, for some ridiculous reason, the writers can’t let go of their friendship. I literally have no idea why they keep clinging to it so desperately that they come up with the dumbest shit ever just to have Alicent and Rhaenyra share a scene. 

This friendship should be dead, gone and buried in season 1, episode 6.

However, there were moments in this season that deserve recognition and praise. 

Aegon was probably the most interesting character in this season. The writers didn’t waste a single moment with him; there were no unnecessary scenes. Aegon’s every appearance had a reason and led somewhere. Either it helped flesh out his character or pushed the plot forward; often, it did both. Tom Glynn-Carney deserves all the flowers. He played Aegon wonderfully. And while I will never cheer for Aegon, his scenes kept my eyes glued to the screen.

I already mentioned scenes between Alicent and her children or brother, but I will mention them again. Those were Alicent’s best moments this season. Not when she was fucking Cole or saying dumb shit during Small Council or meeting with Rhaenyra, but when she could share the screen with people who should be most dear to her.

Harrenhal. I was amazed by how well Harrenhal looked. The castle really was one of the characters this season, and I loved seeing glimpses of magic in Westeros. I also enjoyed Ser Simon Strong.

Surprisingly, Mysaria was also one of the strongest characters this season, as was Larys Strong. I’m going to wait to see what they will do with Mysaria next, but there is potential there. Larys sucks as the Master of Whispers, but in my opinion, his characterisation this season was much better than what we saw in season 1. Too bad they made him a creep first.

Overall, slow pacing wasn’t my problem with season 2. I’d love to get to know the characters better, especially since they were not really fleshed out in season 1. But I didn’t get that. Instead, there were a few throw-away lines that never led anywhere, a few moments of brilliance that were overshadowed by repetitive dialogue, scenes that did not make any sense, and moments that, in the writers’ opinion, looked “cool” or felt “right”. There was little tension in this season and no sense of urgency, even though the kingdom was supposedly at war. Things happened, and people died, but everyone moved on so quickly that every death felt meaningless. Lucerys, Jaehaerys, and Rhaenys have already been long forgotten.

The tragedy of Dance of Dragons doesn’t work in the show. Why? Because the characters don’t feel like family. They’re strangers who never interacted with each other.

Considering how much I enjoyed season 1 (despite the changes from canon and the problems with pacing the first season had), season 2 was a huge letdown. It’s not yet as bad as season 8 of Game of Thrones, but it also pales compared to the brilliance of his predecessor’s early seasons.

[darklinaforever]

TB fans- Aemond shouldn’t have claimed Vhagar at Laena’s funeral!!

Didn’t Rhaenyra also sleep with Laena’s husband the same night?? Daemon did it as well, I know that but it takes two to tango and that’s just complete disrespect from Rhaenyra and Daemon, I stopped liking her after the driftmark episode. I’ve seen TB fans also say that Alicent took advantage of Visery’s grief (I’m talking about a very specific person here) but if we used that logic then wouldn’t Rhaenyra have taken advantage of Daemons grief??

Daemon and Rhaenyra sleeping together didn't offend anyone. They were in their corner. No one ever had to know. Aemond outright clame a dragon is visible regardless and in fact has a much more direct impact on the fact of disrespecting the family of the deceased. Nice try for Rhaenyra taking the advantage of a grieving Daemon, but it's also forgetting that Rhaenyra is also in mourning on her side compared to Harwin. Especially since Daemon has literally been pining for Rhaenyra for 10 years, episode 6 was not subtle about it. Daemon clearly wanted Rhaenyra. Do you see how they look at each other throughout the funeral ? The camera first shows Daemon staring at Rhaenyra. Not the opposite. He clearly pines for her. Rhaenyra didn't take advantage of anything and didn't manipulate Daemon. She was simply honest and shared what she wanted at the time. Nothing to do with Alicent's situation, where Otto literally sent her to seduce (although she didn't want to) Viserys, with the ultimate goal of becoming his queen and producing heirs capable of putting Hightower blood on the throne. Especially since Laena knew very well all along that Daemon loved Rhaenyra (before marrying him). That she wasn't the woman he would have chosen first. She knew that and had clearly made peace with it. So how is Laena offended ? By the time of the funeral, announcing the news to the family and making the trip, she had been dead for several weeks at least. Laena is dead and buried, Daemon and Rhaenyra can do whatever they want from there, especially since they have been discreet and no one has seen them. Once again they didn't hurt anyone. On the other hand, Aemond taking a dragon that the deceased's daughter wanted to try to claim, under the very roof of the deceased's family and fighting with the said daughters of the deceased... Yes, it's really not great for the families concerned. It's simple, Aemond's case concerns the fact of having made a public act and publicly fighting with Laena's daughters among the Velaryons themselves. The case of Daemyra sleeping together has nothing to do with the case of Aemond stealing Vaghar and fighting with the girls (as well as the Velaryon boys). Just like Daemyra sleeping together has nothing to do with the situation of Alicent and Viserys in the first 2 episodes. I can't even believe these 2 things can compare to Daemyra sleeping together. And then why just stop loving Rhaenyra ? I hope you hated Daemon before this and still hate him afterwards. Because if you like Daemon anyway it's a bit weird to specifically say to stop liking just Rhaneyra when it still takes two to get laid.

[thecountesstribe]

HOTD 2X5 THOUGHTS.

I knew after coming off an action packed episode, the pace would've slowed down and I'm not mad at it.

BAELA AND JACE WERE THE MVP'S OF THIS EPISODE. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!! AFTER THE DROUGHT THAT THEY HAD IN SEASON 1 AND THE BEGINNING OF SEASON 2, WE'RE FINALLY BEING FED.

The Targtowers parading around Meleys head this episode has got to be one of the dumbest shit besides putting bbq Aegon on the throne they've ever done. Yes let's galavant the one thing that keeps us in power and the realm in order for a petty show of arrogance. That makes sense. The small folk immediately being “nah this ain't it” is so funny and a sign of all the things to come for them. They're idiots! Meleys wasn't no traitor you bums, you were. Get all the greens off my screen.

Aegon's suffering, I used to pray for times like this. It's highly unlikely Sunfyre is dead. Alicent and Crybaby Cole aren't together anymore..... Fuckin yes. I told you guys Alicent is delusional as hell, she really thought the same council that she helped usurped Rhaenyra's birthright because she's a WOMAN, would've let her, a woman rule them? Criston, Larys and Aemond not backing her had to taste like gravel going down. It's deserved. She had the opportunity to do the right thing and she forfeited it again and again and again. Fuck Almond today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the next day after that and the day after forevermore. If I was him I would take Haelena's words as an ill omen.

I felt for Corlys man. Like he pisses me off don't get me wrong but that's still my guy and he's lost a lot. Rhaenys was Corlys practical to his idealistic delusional. That man never listened to his wife until it was too late. Him trying to name Baela his heir, when Rhaenys wanted Rhaena to be his heir at first, can't do that now anyway, Rhaena's not around right now and Baela absolutely refusing and gagging tf outta him in the same breath , I cheered. Baela is upholding her grandmother's last wishes. No more but “BaElA hAD MoRe ClaIm to Driftmark” discourse, she's “FIRE AND BLOOD!”, Driftmark should be passed to “SALT AND SEA”. She said it herself. Now a certain demographic could stop equating her being a poc to her Velaryon roots. She every bit a Targaryen. Don't start with the Rhaena discourse either because she's the same as well. The only reason Rhaenys wanted her to have Driftmark is because it would've gone to Rhaena either way had she married Lucerys and Corlys had no intention to claim those boys atp in time. Corlys is trying to honor Rhaenys wishes, I could respect that but do it in the way she wanted it in her final moments Corlys. He's still my guy though.

I am sick of this Harrenhal plot. That scene with Daemon and his mom....... Just why? He never even met his mother either. I am so sorry Mama Alyssa. Even for the incest in the Targaryen lineage, did the writers have to take it that far? That shit was egregious. The only good part was seeing Laena again. Answer the question though Daemon. “Are you taking care of her girls?!” Get Daemon out of there now. Alys has that man gone off his rockers. I'm over it. I love how Simon is sick of Daemon's shenanigans though, he's real asf for that 🤣😭. Caraxes sighting 🥺. I miss my chaos noodle boy.

Rhaenyra comforting Baela. We won. Look she mightn't have had the best relationship with the girls in the show and it's not developed on screen properly, thanks for that HBO, but she does love and care for them. Her telling Baela about her Grandma (I still refuse to believe Rhaenys is gone💔😭) and we got an explanation for why Rhaena didn't try to claim a dragon on Dragonstone (she almost died and Rhaenyra wouldn't allow her to do it again), that was for me. In the books those girls were close to her and Rhaena was her “Realm's delight” namesake, I'll never forgive them for taking that and the team black family dynamics away from me. We got a Luke mention 😭. Her and Jace working out their issues and she knowing he snuck away to be a diplomat, more of that please. She's finally acknowledging her strengths and weaknesses and starting to move and think like a leader. I love it here.

Jace finally got a chance to do more than just mew, tweak and brood. I understand why Rhaenyra wasn't sending him out, that boy is out for blood, as he should be and he's inherently going to be reckless if he did go out to scout instead of Baela. Just listen to him last episode and tell me if he sounded like he had a clear head on his shoulders. I wish we saw more than that shot of Vermax and him actually riding his dragon but a win is a win. Him subtly threatening the Freys with Vermax, he's a diplomat alright. His mother needs “bent knees” and that is exactly what he got her. Proud of him. Baela going about her duties and whacking the men that are being annoying as she goes. Proud of them. Diplomat husband and battle wife is just *chef's kiss*. I'll say it again I absolutely adore his relationship with Baela. It's so healthy and I don't get into fandoms to “ship” but I love them your honor. Their soft way of speaking to one another, even when they're disagreeing. Him confiding in her about how humiliating it is that he thinks he's being coddled because of his standing as prince and her getting to go out and scout and fight but her still understanding and trusting him on his secret mission (that's what it was, he snuck out to go treat with the Freys), him being considerate of her at all times, “Rhaenys is dead and Baela can't face the burden alone” yeah I love them. Plus she has him trained 😩🤣. One look, then she grabbed him and he stopped immediately in his tracks and he backed up and started paying attention. Whew. The greatest King and Queen that could've come out of the 7 realms.

We had a Rhaena sighting. Look I love Jeyne but I'll need her to watch her tone with Rhaena please and thank you. Rhaena you're not powerless love. She's been through enough, I just need everybody to get out of her way and give her everything that she wants, it's what she deserves. I didn't like how she found out about Rhaenys though💔. I think they're really scrapping Nettles though 🙃. Wtf Sara and Ryan. I'll not get into that, it's literally grinding my gears though.

Next week we'll see Silverwing and Vermithor!!! I'm excited. Until then guys.

[thequeenwechoose]

Hotd 2x06 My Thoughts

Lets start with Daemon. Can someone please get him out of this castle? He is so helpless now haunted by his visions. Him clawing at the door was really heartbreaking to watch. And in his paranoia he attacks Simon. Who really wishes him no harm.

The scene with Viserys standing next to a dead Aemma could almost count as an deleted scene. Except that Daemon wasn't there in ep 1.

Daemon was always someone who had problems comforting people who are sad. But he was never runnig away like Alys said. He went to Dragonstone because he was exiled and didnt want to return to his wife. He went with Corlys to war because he got nothing else to loose and to prove himself. He went to Pentos with Laena because he could not marry Rhaenyra and his brother exiled him again. Viserys had his reasons but he always pushed him away. Mostly under influence from Otto but still. He went to Harrenhal to recruit an army, he didnt run away. At this point i dont understand why he is framed bad for everything he has done. Also the show suffers a The Woman Are Always Right Complex.

Seeing him crying really touched me and it made me sad. Bonus Point for Caraxes for calling to him in the Alys scene to get the hell out of there. I had hoped the plot would speed up but it did not. They are pressing too much in the last two episodes i think. The peacing is too slow. It's not that nothing happens but it is not particulary interesting. For example the scenes with the small folk were not really necesary. It would have been enough to show them attacking Alicent and Haelena. It worked in Thrones too. With Joffrey and Cercei in Season 2.

The dragon claiming scene with Steffon Darkling was very stupid in my opinon. He didnt have to die. Rhaenyra successfully robbed herself of another kingsguard and a formidable protector and swordsman (How many kingsguards has she left?). And she showed zero remorse about it.

Another episode of Jace asking his mother to do something, Rhaena sitting around and pittying herself because she has no dragon and Baela was somehow nowehere to be found.

Rhaenyra is getting on my nerves. Does she ever stop whining? She is becoming paranoid. Which is a bit early. Why would she trust Mysaria of all people she has known her for like a week. The writers say she is looking for a woman to get close to. That could have been Baela. Also slapping her council members for telling her that she has made a mistake is just a no go. She said you have forgotten to fear me but i cant remember when they have ever feared her in the first place. It's Daemon they fear which is why she needs him. He is her sword that was part of the reason why she was marrying him. But i guess that doesnt matter now because she is an independent girlboss who doesnt need anyone and is always right.

Aegon and Haelena have my sympathies. And it was kinda delicous that Alicent got stripped of her council position by her own son. (You reap wat you sow.) Daeron gets mentioned a lot theese days i wonder if he and tessarion will make an appearance.

Crispy is of to Harrenhall and will not return. (Unless they change that too.)

The Addam Seasmoke claiming scen was very strange. It might be the first time that a dragon chases his future rider. But if we had got a ordinary dragon claiming scene with first patting and then a flight it would have been just boring. Also seasmoke looks a lot like drogon.

This episode might be the worst of the season for me(yet). It was just boring.

[sophiemariepl]

Although I did very much enjoy House of the Dragon season 1, I have to admit that I really hate how much of the original Fire and Blood material was squeezed by the writers, so that the build-up for the Dance of Dragons could happen in just one season.

Like, so many important and interesting plotlines and character archs were lost as a result of this! Ser Harwin Strong, Laena Velaryon, Laenor did not have it much better… and don’t get me started on Larys Strong. This guy literally seems to be just a psychopath for being a psychopath. As a character, he does not stand next to either lord Varys or Petyr Baelish a.k.a. the Littlefinger.

And I have one theory about the circumstances that led to this state of the final product we got. It consists of two major points:

1) Large part of the budget went into the animation of the dragons, so they simply did not have the money to focus on nuancing and developing the storylines,

2) HBO had a survey made regarding the attention span of modern audiences and found out that it largely decreased in the past 10-15 years, so they chose to fit this new “criteria”.

The problem is, that one of the major assets of the original Game of Thrones is the fact that the storyline develops gradually, and in a relatively slower pace. This way we get the time to understand the political game of Westeros and we get attached to the characters we’re watching (regardless of whether it is a positive or a negative attachment). And this way, once a particular stage of the political game comes to it's conclusion and one of the characters dies, we feel the whole emotional baggage that comes with it. No matter if it is the sadness about heartbreaking death of Shireen Baratheon or the satisfaction of seeking Joffrey getting poisoned at his own wedding, it has it's own emotional baggage.

Meanwhile, many deaths of key characters in HotD just don’t have this baggage.

Ser Harwin Strong? He had such a cute relationship with Rhaenyra. Shame that he ended smoked on a grill, he was a hot baby daddy. Next.

Laena Velaryon, who appears so little that in each of her scenes she is played by a different actress? Oh no, she’s dead. Another point from the book behind us. Next.

Vaemond Velaryon? That guy who argued with Corlys in some of the earlier episodes? To paraphrase a text of a typical Polish grandma: I don’t know the man.

And I could count on and on…

[horizon-verizon]

What do you think Laena's and Daemon's relationship was?

*EDITED POST* (4/23/24)

Disclaimer: A Headcanon, bc We simply Don't Know The Deeper Stuff Apart from he loved her and she him.

I've said this before (Post #1 and Post#2 and Post#3), but I think not long after they met & married, they came to love each other platonically and romantically; that his motives for pursuing her were political as well as emotional/romantic/sexual.

A) HotD & Its Racism

Honestly, even in the original canon, the Velaryons lose a lot throughout their connection to the Targs and Corlys' ambition. However, HotD made some decisions that make them look less impressive or intelligent than was needed:

Laena not having her Vhagar-claim scene despite her saying over and over she wants to embody dragon-riding and her heritage for its own sake since she was 12 (Aemond is because he wants to prove himself against bastards) -- also her having that dragonrider pride Daemon has, yet that not being enough for him to love her?! How does this not also invalidate or throw into doubt the central ship these people are trying to push (Daemyra)?! Self contradictory.

her daughters not getting a glance from Daemon in that 7th episode (I could be tripping for this one, but idk)

Daemon's apparent "trouble" with Rhaena not having a dragon bond yet despite he himself not having claimed/bonded with Caraxes until he was in his late teens and how more likely it is for him to actually expressively encourage her to be okay with that and know how to do that/be persistent! [more on his fatherhood below]

Laena gets that self-immolating treatment (a common wife-riddance social tool in some cultures' literature and actual history) when dragon riders actually don't die often in fire nor is that even a desired death by anyone in canon. It's simply a flashier way to go and to provoke watchers while giving more pain to an already dying, lonely woman (as she wasn't surrounded by loved ones like in canon, and in Driftmark her childhood and ancestral home).

Laenor got punched up by a Kingsuard while becoming the next Prince Consort of a ruling Queen, and yet doesn't recompense through Criston's exile or death.

Laenor loses his lover to a nonsensically-allowed outburst of rage from Colon in the midst of his engagement feast. In canon, Choler kills Joffrey in what could be reasonably excused, at least, during a melee, where anyone could get killed in a competitive fury. Thus Cholera escaped death and punishment that way.

those wigs were just not it (being semi-facetious) and comparatively worse-laid than the ones for white actors

I did not like that we did not get more of Daemon giving her the respect he gave her in F&B concerning her desires to live in Driftmark when she explicitly said that she wanted her kids to grow up in her ancestral home when he himself has been clawing at the bit to live close to his own family...canonically. There is a clear difference in emotional support and care the writers or producers or whoever thought Laena would get from Daemon, and that partially comes from what they think of Daemon and the men of this world but with how they treated the Black characters thus far and with Laena's death, I can't help but see a racial bias at work as well.

(Watsonian) I didn't think that Daemon being more distant with Laena than he was/is w/Rhaenyra was about race while I was watching because in the HotD universe, (not the book or pre-HotD world of ASoIaF/original!) the Velaryons' Blackness does not seem to affect their in-world how other nobles in-world regard them nor the wider cope of prestige the Velaryons canonically had. Racism is not baked against the Velaryons from other houses. It simply isn't there. So "in-text" (text of the show that the writers think they are giving, not the book), Daemon is more distant from Laena bc she wants to live as a free dragon rider while he wants to lick his wounds and feels guilt for still wanting Rhaenyra. Again, this is what the writers tried to convey but fucked up because they wrote against the Velaryons as a whole as well as made Laena's death less emotionally impactful for both Rhaenyra and Daemon by removing the women's friendship.

We need to separate the show from the books, because the Velaryon women have been erroneously and sexistly rewritten. I talk about Laena HERE. And I don't mean that her blackness is the mistake; how they rewrote her relationship to Daemon. We only have their life together in a few scenes of one episodes, first of all, which constricts our understanding or the material for it to one episode that's shared with other characters. I this lone epsiode, we only get to see that despite Laena herself a prod dragonsrider of the dragon his dead father was bonded with and of the rider whose sword he carries, Daemon seem sto treat Laena or regard her more as a nag than a companion. They don't have moments of peace or simply enjoying each other's companies, too, without it going back to their public dragonriding performance, which coincidentally (not really) pushes Laena to try to make Daemon see reason to go back to KL. Meaninwhile, bk!Daemon makes the decisions himself and does what show!Daemon of episode 3 refuses to do and appeal to his brother Viserys so he can move the pregnant bk!Laena to Driftmark so she can do as what show!Laena wanted and have their kids grow up in the place she did. In the show, Daemon is upset and uncommunicative to his own daughter both before and after LAena dies, and some people argue that he's just too upset with the prospect of Rhaena not having had a hatched egg in infancy...meanwhile, not only does Daemon himself only bond with Caraxes until he's 16, MOST Targaryens/Targ-descents bond with a dragon in ther preteens to even adulthood! There's no reason for show!Daemon to feel as he does towards Rhaena.

And the show changing Daemon hugging his daughters to him just leaving them to cry is such a clear attempt to recharacterize Daemon and his relationships to his family a something much more dysfunctional than it was to coincidentally match deadbeat dad energy...bc apparently Daemon cannot feel as close connections to his black family as he can his white ones (Viserys and Rhaenyra)? that's the conclusion you very much can go to, since the writing simply makes no sense when we think abt the actual lore. "Oh, it's so hard for him bc he had all these grand ideas about dragonrider legacy and Rhaena not making her egg hatch messed that up"...I've had to listen to people claim that Daemon was not ignoring or mistreating Rhaena through neglect...I'm sorry but this makes bad parenting, NOT being a uwu babygirl! Your children should not have to experience emotional withdrawal from a disappointed parent and be left to feel as if you are the issue.

And yes, show!Daemon makes Rhaena feel like she is the issue bc if we say that he was disappointed that she's not a "proper" dragonrider, we are saying that he's not the issue, she is! We're more concerned about how Daemon's prospects are not aligning how he wants them instead of how he's performing his fatherly duties. We're practically encouraging deadbeat dadism, and why? Meanwhile, people get on about Rhaenyra beign a bad mom bc she "allowed" her sons to be born WHILE SIMULTAENOUSLY sayinf she shouldn't have left KL for Dragonstone even though she clearly wanted a better life for her and her sons away from Alicent's attempts to denigrate their positions at court. Fostering a more negative environment for those boys. Sure....

Why all this change, and towards the negative?! And why do so many fans love it so much?! I am a Daemyra fan, but really, I don't need Daemon to hate every women he's married to for the sake of the ship. The ship, to me, stands on its own. And GRRM confirms it many times. If you need a ship to be discriminatory (in terms of making its adapted version more fraught with discord), then you probably have some bigoted shit or ideas about relationships to work through. Or the ship itself is logically unfeasible even with all the fanons made for it, and you are desperate to make up for it.

I think that along with the racism that just "automatically" governing the reasoning for the writers in regards to the Velaryons, they also wanted to make Daemyra that much more central for marketing value. The hot OTP couple made even hotter for all our consumerist needs.

B) Fire and Blood

That being said, I read F&B before the show existed. The changes I mentioned above (apart form the Velaryons becoming black) didn't need to exist at all. Laena and Daemon of canon had their own secure, unique, and charming relationship.

At the same time, while I do very much believe that Daemon and Laena loved each other (I already gave an example of him writing to Viserys above) before the show, I never thought Daemon fell in love with Laena or first pursued her for her personality and bearing alone. Similar to how he loved Rhaenyra and her him for some ideas of their political roles.

After they marry, they spend a year together traveling and in the next year, they stay at Pentos for Laena to give birth and to take care of their twins before going back to Westeros-Driftmark, where they eventually build a life with Rhaenyra for the rest of their marriage (1-2 years). In all, they were married for 4 or so years.

I believe that with Laena, Daemon became a real father of action and practice and settled; Laena lived her happiest, freest days. But as I said in this post about him maybe marrying and fucking Rhaenyra not long after Laena's death--just from the biased, unforthcoming, short, undetailed account of people who were not there to witness Daemon-Laena at Pentos and the rest of Essos...they canonically did not seem to have quite the same potency--that je nais se quois--for each other as much as Laena had for their kids and Vhagar/dragon-riding and Daemon for the Targ-Valyrian heritage, their kids, Viserys, and Rhaenyra. However, we don't get a lot of detail/as much detail as even the already -not-very-elucidated relationship b/t Daemyra for Laena x Daemon in-text, so make of that what you will. 🤷🏻‍♀️

For me, it's not about Laena being inferior, it's just about someone else being what you would have chosen if you had a chance bc that bond was strong and it matched your core needs as well as critical desires. It wasn't about "second choice" so much as different type of connections and timing.

Again, could just be the fault of lack of access to them as they lived and traveled. It easily could just be that Daemon was very loving and affectionate and attentive to her, and by his letter to Viserys it very much seemed so. (I am one of those who believes that Rhaenyra also really loved Harwin...it's just that Daemon was what she had in her heart for years until both of their deaths, she could live her own version of a freer life with Daemon [she could never be "out" with Harwin and she wasn't keen on giving up her throne], they were well matched, and it wouldn't take much for her to settle into a life with him.)

I think Daemon was sexually attracted to Laena in the beginning, liked she was a dragon rider like himself and thus could pass on that legacy and ability to their kids, got to know her and liked her, and her being of close family blood and a Velaryon and made the whole thing sweeter. At the same time, I just never thought of Laena/Harwin being those people Daemon or Rhaenrya choosing to be with if they had that freer choice. Even though it reads as the "healthiest" to some people for Daemon--Harwin for Rhaenyra. Yeah, it works for you and what you want for the characters/people in general, but what about who these characters are (as long as no one is being abused, and no one was in the orig Daemyra)?!

Account of Daemon and Laena Before Leaving Westeros:

Why Daemon Killed the Son of Braavos for Laena/Wanted Her

They had met for only a few weeks tops? I mean lightning strikes and rarities and all that, it's possible he did fall in love or develop limerence or whatever for Laena in this period of time. She, him? Sure. But...it certainly doesn't hurt that he, as a Targ, manages to bring the Velaryons closer to his family through his marriage and I don't think this was far from his head when he planned what he planned with Corlys.

I think Daemon fought for her/killed her betrothed because:

he wanted to get closer to both/either Rhaenyra & Viserys to aid in any political upheaval/add his own sword/reputation (Driftmark is really just a dragon's flight away from either Dragonstone or KL)

(another "partnership" with the salty, still-grumbling Corlys) it is one way to get back at Viserys for Mysaria's exile/his loss of a child--the rebellion/self affirmation deal again--this girl who Viserys rejected wills till birth technical heirs to the throne through Daemon

it gets the Velaryons/Corlys even more on the Targ side and their interests bc their kids are officially Targaryens as well as potential heirs/claimants of the Velaryon seat

Laena was gorgeous. And he was definitely attracted to her and her manner (movements, bearing, attitude), and I think this was the draw/icing on the cake. She already had an adventurous, bold spirit which is what he was already attracted to and this is why she and Rhaenyra likely first were endeared to each other and how got along so well. She bonded and flew Vhagar before she ever went into her teens.

Laena is a Valyrian-descent dragon rider, one who rode the mighty Vhagar -> impressive and prideworthy to have such a spouse for their connections to your own history (part of the point of feudal marriages), and a good deterrent/speed stops for those greens.

Some of these could be bonafide plans and intentions...some or all could be thoughts and strong feelings as he acts or circles in his mind as he interacts with various Velaryons.

The Other Lords and Ladies of Westeros

Reasons 1, 2, & 4 are enough to explain why Daemon would feel "passionate" about winning Laena's hand and killing her betrothed. He doesn't really care about people outside of the family he recognizes nor about what people outside of his even smaller circle think about him as long as it fulfills his purposes. His reputation as a fearsome, unpredictable wild card serves him, and he got it by not adhering to much Andal-Westerosi mores of behavior and restraint or caring what people thought of such behavior as long as it didn't blow back hard against Viserys or Rhaenyra. His willingness to kill: setting up an army for Viserys before the Council ever happened, his "work" in the Stepstones, his brutal handling of the accused rapists, thieves, and killers in KL while being Commander of the City Watch. Why wouldn't he kill Laena's betrothed even if he didn't "love" her at first sight if he expected and observed what I already listed above?

Getting criticized for killing him is not enough of a hypothetical deterrent for Daemon in his considerations to marry Laena or not.

The Sealord's son had even less connection to any Westerosi house by the time his Sealord father died and he himself started to drain his own family's funds for stupid stuff. Daemon was willing to butcher and maim several people in KL in the name of the King's "peace" and he got some flack for it; even though those KL people were commoners versus the Sealord's son having been of nobler birth, the Sealord's son wasn't favored or very familiar amongst those at Driftmark...at least positively. We have to remember that in the negotiation w/Corlys, Corlys likely gave the okay or would have to be okay with Daemon killing this guy, which may give Daemon (for what little trepidation he may have had) more incentive to say "Let's do it" and expect even less backlash or criticism from others. If he made other nobles' criticism/side-eye/disapproval the only or primary consideration to kill or not kill the Braavosi guy, then their observance of how Corlys allowed Daemon to marry his daughter with little to no protest (in lieu of their suspicions of Daemon being ambitious for himself) would also be good enough for Daemon to "risk" actual practical disadvantages in killing this guy. If Corlys doesn't care, they have less right to protest--because he, the house leader and lord under whom both the son and Daemon were receiving guest rights--allowed it (asked for it in some theories) and there was no backup from Braavos for this same son of a Sealord. Daemon instigated the conflict between him and the son by insulting the kid many times for him to "defend his honor" and walk into getting killed. And it was definitely on purpose because it was still a fight that would have been recognized as a real duel because it was about keeping one's honor and public respect. There didn't seem to be actual laws against or for duels from the monarchy at any time in Westerosi history, which means that the only sort of enforcement or limitations or punishments for duels & their results were the local lord's allowance, whether the men followed through, public opinion, and the host lord's powers.

Kinda like how Daemon and Rhaenyra married so soon after Laena's death, Daemon dueling this Braavosi kid was considered in extremely poor taste. It certainly made more/others fear him, but also a part of this feudalist social fabric of militarism and machismo AND Daemon, in my view, likely would have been fine/indifferent to glad of it because he wants to make others think twice before going against him and the other Targs or immediate family.

While he would have known of Laena before he met her 23-yr old self, I don't think they hung out enough before for him to suddenly want her for her. Again, the guy places his closest family above all, and while Laena is his cousin's child:

he did not grow up with her

she is a Velaryon daughter of the ambitious Corlys who still wouldn't see Viserys very well (but perhaps Daemon was fine witht hat since he also wasn't fond of Viserys then)

and he did not spend much time around her as much as he did Rhaenyra

Therefore, all people could really do is talk about a guy they already either loved or feared. And that they were concerned with how Daemon, in their suspicions, messed around with the preconditions of a duel by purposefully killing this Braavosi for his own gain and without fear of getting reproached for messing with said "rules". What was there to fear, for Daemon and from his perspective?

But again, I think this was all a blip to Daemon when he was thinking and planning on marrying Laena.

It's possible that Daemon would rather not induce make Viserys blow all the way up by marrying Laena Viserys' reaction. However, they already had a contentious relationship after Daemon did whatever he did with Rhaenyra, which Viserys likely saw as a power grab for Daemon's sake alone. Because Viserys ruined Daemon's chance to have his first son with Mysaria.

But actually, marrying Laena brings the Velaryons more into the fold while Daemon has his little "revenge" against Viserys for a bit by marrying Laena. Viserys allow them back quite easily.

Why? Corlys and the Velaryons and Viserys need to be on their good side for his own reputation, that fake "harmony" he thinks is necessary to hold the dynasty together, peace of mind (Rhaenys being passed over and Corlys still being likely salty about it), and Rhaenyra's support. Their marriage was Corlys' decision. Viserys also can't really protest against the marriage as much as the Sealord's son being killed.

What About the Singers?

On the one hand, their songs or claims about Daemon falling instantly in love with Laena at first sight and wanting her for her could be an amplification or an exaggeration of the observable, genuine attraction he had for her. Because it's not what they or what his reputation allows them to imagine from him.

Or it could be a way for these singers to spread the news of Daemon's "changed"/"changing ways" by Corlys to give/amplify this marriage a veneer of sentimentality and diminish whatever outrage against it, a way to diminish the suspicions of this being a typical political allowance. We remember that singers and bards often entertained local lords at dinners and gatherings and wrote songs in their honor or whomever they thought would get them in good with the lord and any/particular ones in the future. "The Rains of Castamere" was definitely, at least, encouraged by Tywin Lannister to add and build his own reputation. And such was the practice of real-life troubadours of medieval France/Normandy and bards of other Western/Italian regions.

Could be both.

I do also find it a nice narrative contrast to observe RhaenyraxDaemon versus LaenaxDaemon in how well-reported the respective emotional connections were. Daemyra has more suggestive pieces while Laena and Daemon have the singers and Daemon's reaction to Laena dying (more explicit pieces).

After Wedding

Because of the personalities they had and their going well together, they definitely grew closer after they married.

The way Daemon carried her to her bed and was distraught after her death seems enough to show how much he cared. He also quickly wrote to Viserys directly so he could safely move back to Westeros after they had their dragon twins. And they definitely flew together both in Essos and Westeros. These are the things explicitly said about him and Laena in canon and they imply great care, interest, and respect. Which indicates and proves his love for her.

At the same time, I also think that Daemon still desired & yearned for Rhaenyra in all of his marriage to Laena. Marriages don't cancel out long-time deep connections and attractions to others, esp when they start out political. That would take time and maybe some personality changes.

Like how some theorize Ned loving Ashara Dayne and wanting to marry her then moving on with Catelyn, Ned totally and surely reorient themselves to love their new spouse for the sake of their future happiness and because they genuinely see their spouses' qualities, but it's not a guarantee and takes TIME. Ned is not Daemon, who not only is more willful but is also a proud Targ prince of emotion who's been suspected of trying to kill/undermine his own family for power for years.

[pterodactylterrace]

"I’d say this

1-Don’t have Laenor simply decide to abandon his grieving mother and father after the death of his sister while also murdering someone in the process. That turned a sympathetic character into someone I honest to god hope suffers forever. The face of Rhaenys when she thinks her son died is gut wrenching

2-Keep Aegon a rapist, but remove the fighting pits. The first is in line with his character. The second is absurd, the guy who supposedly drank and raged after the death of his sons would not watch his bastards murder each other for fun.

3-Entire Green council gets changed pretty much. Remove the Viserys nonsense. Let Criston Cole actually just murder beesbury instead of it being an accident. Let the greens present their actual arguments (Great council precedent, Bastards, Daemon, fear for their safety) and let Aegon and Helaena have their big moments. Allow Cole to crown Aegon and convince him to take the throne. Remove the getting to Aegon first plot line entirely.

4-Daemon should have had his caring moment of carrying Laena’s body. It makes a very evil character seem more human to me.

5-Give Rhaenyra some teeth. She’s just sulking around non stop and constantly asking for her father and Daemon to fix her problems. Either portray her as that (a petty vain noble girl who wants the throne while not willing to fight for it) or commit to her as the girl boss Dany 2.0 they want her to be. This nonsense of Rhaenyra being simultaneously Visenya reborn (unironically in the show instead of a hypocritical lie in the books) doesn’t work if she’s just asking the men around her for help

6-Alicent should have been an active schemer after Driftmark. During the death of Viserys we should have gotten an Alicent monologue where she talks about her life with him and the neglect of the kids. And how she will defy him and crown Aegon

7-No accident for Luke. Let these characters actually intend to do what they do. Aemond was already sympathetic with the changes of the bullying; they didn’t need to whitewash him while demonizing Aegon.

8-DAERON !

9-Have Rhaenyra murder Vaemond like she does in canon. Show that the greens have reasons to fear her.

10-Stop with the Larys Strong feet thing. I get it’s not a feet fetish, but all it does is victimize Alicent further instead of developing the characters.

11-Have Otto show some concern for his family more often. He’s not Tywin Lannister. Otto is a Grey character, he’s a schemer and uses his family members for it, but he does love them. Make that more clear for the audience.

12-Aegon and Sunfyre needed more scenes.

13-Remove the white hart. It’s pointless and just pandering to the Blacks for no reason. And it even fails at that since Criston was there too and he crowns Aegon.

14-I wanted Helaena to be portrayed as a happy young woman, a couple of scenes with Jaehaerys , Maelor and Jaehaera would have been a great way to contrast her character pre and post BC. While also humanizing the children.

15-Remove the Mysaria accent. Please

16-In general we needed a couple more episodes in the season"

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCitadel/s/2Fyp7C9taw

Oh boy. A LIST!!!

Okie dokie, I’m just gonna go in blind and respond to each point as I go!

Not sure what character was made particularly sympathetic. I agree it was messed up and a pointless change only made to make Rhaenyra look better. It didn’t make Rhaenyra sympathetic imo. Laenor was trying to recommit himself to Rhaenyra, break up with Qarl and play his part. She took everything from him. He was sent away penniless without his dragon, his family or even his shoes. I mean, yeah, it’s great that Laenor escaped, but an innocent person still died.

Still not sure how “pinching and fondling” translates into “rapist”. I mean, I made a whole post about how the two are different, but hey, what do I know? Also, in the books, Gaemon (the kid in the pit) is actually from a sailor from Lys, according to his mother. Also, also, how did Erryk know about the pits if Aegon slips away and evades him? Seems convenient that Erryk just knows about his doings while also admitting to Otto that he doesn’t know what he gets up to. Pick a narrative, does Erryk know what Aegon gets up to or not?

I’m all for changing it to Alicent wanting Aegon to take the throne without the stupid misunderstanding. I would have loved to see him and Helaena flying around KL after being crowned. Instead, they had to take away the one shining moment the greens had and turn it into Rhaenys’s gIrLBoSs moment where she kills hundreds of innocent people, all for the sake of just looking cool. (But they aren’t biased AT ALL) (Like seriously, there was a back exit to the pit that the dragons use, why did she crash through the ceiling and kill a bunch of small folk rather than just going out the big open door???)

Umm… they changed her manner of death. This can’t happen with her canon death. Vhagar roasted her. There wouldn’t be much left to carry… Also, they were going with the angle of “Daemon didn’t care for his second wife, Rhaenyra 4eva!” So, there’s that.

Honestly, I just hate how whiny Rhaenyra is. Nothing is ever her fault, even when it is absolutely her fault and something she could have easily prevented.

All for Alicent wanting the throne for her son.

If it being an accident is what it takes to get some nakie Aemond time… I’m just a ho 🤷🏻‍♀️

All we wanted was a throw away line. They cut it but left in the Rhaenyra and Daemon fucking on the beach scenes. Couldn’t have cut those down to introduce a whole ass character? (But again, they aren’t biased!)

I mean, the same amount of fucks were given in the show and the book. Blows my mind that Daemon can behead a nobleman from a prominent house in open court and face no consequences. No wonder Rhaenyra turned out how she did. Viserys just apparently doesn’t believe in consequences for Targaryens.

It’s meant to show the creepy hold he has over her. She doesn’t want what is happening to happen, but feels she has no choice.

Seems he likes Helaena. That’s enough for me 🥰

Agree. Also, can the dragons just be COLORFUL? So sick of these murky ass color schemes because they wanted to make dragons look “realistic”.

Yeah, I’m not sure what they were trying to do with that whole thing. Was it meant to be a good omen to kill it or something? Usually good omens aren’t achieved through killing things.

We definitely needed more of Helaena and the children. Maybe even highlight how little Aegon seems to care for them.

Was I the only one not offended by it? Yeah, it was odd, but it wasn’t as bad as everyone seems to think, imo.

That is hard to debate because they definitely wanted it to end where it ended, so we need more specifics on where to put these episodes. There were a lot of time jumps to deal with as well, so it gets tricky to lay a blanket statement requesting more.

[paulamoon1]

The choke scene was as stupid as Ryan making daemon kill his first wife because “it was too detailed not to have been done by daemon” when daemon was in the stepstones. Nowhere near Rhae. Then make his relationship to laena loveless when in the book it was mention how they lived those 5 years. How daemon was there until Laena’s last breath holding her and even after that he carry his wife’s lifeless body to her bed. He raised Rhaenrya’s boys from an early age. Daemon took Jacaerys at 6, Lucerys at 5 and baby Joffrey at 3. Basically daemon is the only father they knew until they died.

However in the show daemon is a different person depending on who is directing and writing for the episode.

For example in episode 8 we see a supportive, husband, father and brother. Then the idiot of Sara H mention how she did not understand why people liked daemon when he was a bad brother, a bad father and bad husband. Like make up your freaking mind people. You decide to make him murder his first wife when George didnt. You make him a shifty husband to laena when in the book it was recorded he wasn’t.

Now you make him hyper focus on getting Rhaenrya for what? So he can choke her for what? And worse make Rhaenrya let out a chuckled like “oh look at me I was always the heir” and then have them hold each other before Rhaenrya gives us her Dany S8e5 face before they turned her into a complete psychotic murderous b!tch.

Yeah bravo 👏

I don’t like what they did with Rhaenrya and alicent. Both of this women are brainless puppets.

They do shit and then next episode act like they never did anything to provoke the coming outcome. Like Alicent’s behaviour in episode 9 was ridiculous because in episode 6, 7, and 8 she had already been planning what happened in episode 9 for 16 years.

Rhaenrya was like “oh but none of our dragons have gone to war” “oh all I want is to be BFF with alicent again, is not like my entire family is at danger of being killed” “is not like they usurpedny throne and now my children are at the mercy of my phychotic drunk of a brother”

Like this ladies need help in season 2 like get them personalities please.

Where is my boss ass b!tch queen Alicent

And my Realm Delight Rhaenrya.

Matt said that him and Emma both had questions marks about the choke scene written in episode 10, but that it was written so there was nothing they could really do. And that alot of episode 10 was that way. So basically, they had the same reaction we did.

[agentsmiths]

the pacing in hotd is as bad as got s8

[dwellordream]

Initial Impressions of HotD Episode 2

be warned there are spoilers below.

i have read fire & blood, but i am not judging the show as to its accuracy towards the book, as i had major issues with fire & blood, particularly in regard to how grrm wrote the female characters and handled the Dance.

this is not an evaluation of it as an adaptation but on its own merits.

the new opening credits sequence is very dark and confusing. i get they’re going for a Dragon Age-esque thing with the blood running all over the map, but it’s very hard to make out actual landmarks. also, i wish they’d at least compose a new theme song.

bold move of them to go for a six-month time jump between episodes 1 and 2, but i suppose they want to keep season 1 moving at a very fast pace.

Alicent refers to Criston Cole as Dornish in Episode 1, but Episode 2 makes it very clear he is from a Marcher house, who are part of the Stormlands and were ostensibly established to defend against Dorne.

The scene of Viserys urging Alicent not to tell Rhaenyra about their conversations are sowing the seeds of their future rivalry pretty early, and I think it shows that Alicent is very obedient of authority and unwilling to go against it, even for the sake of her best friend.

Having Alicent sound very tremulous and girlish while talking to her father and Viserys, but much more calm and confident in her conversations with Rhaenyra, was also a good choice in establishing her character.

The scene between Alicent and Rhaenyra praying together for their dead mothers was very touching, and Rhaenyra breaking down because she feels her father doesn’t treat her as his heir was an excellent show of emotion and vulnerability. 

“As king it is my duty to avoid war until open war is unavoidable.” is a pretty huge foreshadowing line. 

Corlys and Rhaenys are initially set up as the ‘cool, fun uncle and aunt’ but the reminder that they’re still willing to marry off their 12 year old daughter to Viserys is a stark reminder of where their goals lie. They may be a likable couple, but they still see their daughter as a pawn like many Westerosi families. 

I think the show does a good job of showing Viserys’ affection for his daughter, but how casually he dismisses her, while also showing how much he relies on Otto; he doesn’t hesitate to tell Otto about Corlys’ proposal.

Young Laena’s wig is horrible, but the actress is very sweet, and the horror of her little rehearsed speech to Viserys about bearing his children and not bedding him until she turns 14 is pretty blatant.

Rhaenys is much more bitter here towards Rhaenyra than she ever was in Fire & Blood, but I think it’s interesting that they are starting them off as more hostile towards each other, when they will clearly be allied later.

The contrast between Viserys holding Rhaenyra at a distant but developing a very close rapport with Alicent says a lot about Viserys as a person. He seems almost threatened by the thought of Rhaenyra gaining power while he lives, but doesn’t view Alicent as a danger at all, given how she is presented to him.

Daemon never attempted to make Mysaria his second wife in Fire & Blood, but I think it makes sense Daemon would push for something this scandalous as a challenge to Viserys, and having Otto and Criston go together to confront Daemon is nice foreshadowing of their future alliance.

However, given how little they developed Mysaria in Episode 1, she falls pretty flat as a character in Episode 2. The accent is horrible and her speech about how she is with Daemon to be free of fear falls kind of short given how Otto threatened to kill her to her face.

I do think having Rhaenyra come negotiate with Daemon was a very smart move by the writers, and shows her potential as a ruler, which we get very little of in Fire & Blood.

Milly Alcock did a great job of conveying Rhaenyra’s horror when Viserys announces he will wed Alicent just through silent facial expressions, and Matt Smith did a great job of showing how protective Daemon still is of Viserys, despite their falling out. It gives him a lot of nuance that wasn’t there in Fire & Blood.

Overall, while the episode was slower paced and much more conversation-heavy than Episode 1, I appreciate that they dialed down the violence, and the writing was strong.

[thefudge]

a few (okay, maybe quite a few) scattered HOTD thoughts now that i’ve finally caught up: 

yay for having a sick day in bed to catch up 

the good: 

1. definitely a better written show than GOT even in its heyday, and that’s because a lot of the character moments are about showing vulnerability and conflict, not about seeing who gets to say the cleverest line. hotd falls into that sometimes too, but it pays more attention to character

2. the battle/action sequences - i rarely ever enjoyed them on GOT but they’re sparse and well done here, at least for now. the dragon scenes have also been pretty good

3. love the fact that we have so many unsettling/creepy/indefinable dynamics and that hotd dwells on them and doesn’t let you forget lol. i also think this show is doing a better job at depicting the “shades of grey” for every character in terms of morality. 

4. the acting is pretty solid all around 

the bad (up to this point):

1. that whole wedding sequence in episode 5. started out promising. loved alicent’s bad bitch entrance. and then...??? ser criston cole just went nuts??? and it was so chaotic and confusing and unconvincing. i assume that we will return to that whole mess at some point? because it was not explained or fleshed out and it makes no sense why they just let criston get away with it. sure, we could argue that the two houses might’ve been relieved to see laenor’s paramour die....but they’d never do that to poor laenor and they wouldn’t have left the culprit go unpunished. was that whole sequence meant to be confusing and dissatisfying? maybe i’m just dumb and didn’t get it 

2. ser criston cole. is just. a cartoonish 2-dimensional villain now? i don’t get it. they’ve shown they can write characters with enough complexity and deftness that we both understand where they’re coming from and condemn some of their actions. but i guess they just gave up for ser criston? and decided to turn him into a weird incel. and how is he not dead or exiled after what he did??? what sorcery did alicent pull.

3. laena’s death. how did a pregnant woman manage to run past everyone, including daemon, and get down to the shore? why did no one stop her? what a waste of a character. i looked up her death in the book....and the changes they made are strange. i like the idea of her choosing to die like a dragon-rider, but everyone’s absolute negligence of her, and her sudden desire to die felt out of left field. laena struck me as someone who wanted to keep fighting, not give up.

ship stuff: 

- daemon/rhaenyra is solid and have plenty of chemistry, but maaaan, she should’ve been way more angry with him after episode 4. i feel like he got off far too easy (which i guess is a running theme with all his pretend exiles). he struck me as pretty callous and calculating, even if he was also conflicted and drawn to her. i’m srsly waiting for her to put him in his place when they’re married. i need that to be a “rhaenyra is boss” family. in general, daemon is fun but also...kind of obnoxious. i think we’re maybe making too much of him, but matt smith does play the asshole type well, what can i say. i guess what i am trying to say is that i see them less as romantic soulmates and more as "we love each other and use each other” kind of targaryen flavor. which frankly makes them more appealing to me

- harwin strong/rhaenyra - very sad and cute and wholesome. would definitely read smut 

- alicent/larys strong - deliciously creepy vibes, but more in the vein of cersei and qyburn. on board.

- alicent/otto - god, i love the fraught & repressed father/daughter relationship. we had too few scenes with them!! love the toxicity, love the devotion, love how otto pretends not to see alicent’s misery, love everything about them

- alicent/rhaenyra - liked them better as youngins, i feel like the tension between them as older women is somehow...less interesting? idk. i still hope they have more interactions in the future. (i loved that montage in ep 4 where rhaenyra was having a blast and alicent was staring at the ceiling in boredom and agony as viserys did his business. the queer longing alone!)

 - alicent/daemon - that one rarepair/crackship i’m probably going to obsess over. i already have an elaborate oneshot in mind. i love ppl who almost never interact but who would have such interesting one-on-one conversations. also the fraughtness of daemon/viserys, and how much daemon probably resents alicent for “taking” his brother. anyway! 

- alicent/criston - i could be down for this in the scenario where alicent just steps on him repeatedly and he thanks her for it. ugh. really bleh about ser criston. 

- alicent’s targ kids have interesting sibling dynamics.....i assume more incest is coming from that corner too lol 

(sorry yall, most of my ships are alicent ships because olivia cooke <3333)

- laena’s girls! baela and rhaena! i want them to have ridiculously complicated subplots & romances, i want them to take center-stage! least they can do after wasting laena/daemon 

i think that’s everything for now. i’m kind of wondering why we’re doing all these time jumps and why we’re not taking our time. have we not learned anything from GOT? anyway, i’ll probably share my final thoughts after all episodes air.

[drpepperhateblog]

HOT D Episode 2 was a bit of a snoozefest, but I get it. Necessary setups were made.

Some analysis value was here and there, such as Alicent mending the dragon, showing how Viserys thinks she will do so with his house. In his mind perhaps marrying his daughter’s best friend would bring him closer to her in some bizarre way? Wish we had gotten some clarification on that and his decision to dramatically announce his new wife in front of the whole council without alerting Corlys first - almost looks like a provocation.

Weird that no one brought up how Daemon taking a second wife was what Maegor did and that it was an abomination in the eyes of The Seven. Really wish we got more look into religion overall really, but seeing Rhaenyra and Alicent pray in the sept was neat.

Perhaps the most confusing is that never once is the possibility of Rhaenyra marrying discussed. She appears to be older than Laena Velaryon too. I get that the Laena-Viserys match is still more desirable to Corlys and Rhaenys than a Laenor-Rhaenyra match, because they still don’t trust that the throne will keep Rhaenyra as heir if Viserys gets a baby boy, but the fact that Viserys never once considered that was odd.

[danwhobrowses]

House of the Dragon - Eps 1&2 Thoughts and Review

Fire cannot kill a dragon, and yet we can afford to be burned twice.

In Spite of the bitter taste of Game of Thrones' finale, I like many others have plunged myself into House of the Dragon with tempered expectation of the prequel. Now that the first two episodes are out - and totally not because I forgot to do a standalone one for episode 1 - I'm gonna start giving my blind thoughts on the matter.

To be clear, I'm not super familiar with this story, I know it's covered in a book and other reactors inform me that the book has two unreliable accounts (a Maester and a Court Jester) and this is a 'how it really happened' version for the tv version rather than the book version - so there are some changes and age ups - but otherwise I am blind to the direction it's going, so here's my thoughts on it.

Spoilers for the first two episodes of course, and a bit of Game of Thrones too, give them a watch first if you don't want some plot points ruined for you

So this is a good start, I think I am still a bit hesitant to go fully into it but I am liking what I'm seeing so far.

The first episode was good but I must admit I found myself more unsettled than entertained, purely because of the graphic C-Section scene and the presence of pus, I mean I never wanted to see it with the Jorah greyscale scene and I didn't want it here either, same with the sound of choking babies, it was perhaps too uncomfortable. I think the dragon CGI looked a bit wonky at times, it could be the gold on Syrax is just not great for CGI (I'm sure we all recall The Witcher's golden dragon) or perhaps the smoothness of its scales. I do feel 50/50 on the frequent need to reference Game of Thrones even though it's a prequel, on one hand I get it because it bridges the gap but on the other hand if this show is a prequel by over a century it's a little too on the nose.

Episode 2 was a lot better, but I think it suffered a narrative flaw of 'character a does not talk to character b' when it came to Viscerys announcing his marriage to Alicent, he made no effort to even discuss with Rhaenyra his intent to wed her best friend, which will inevitably start the rift between them showed in the trailers. It also doesn't make Viscerys look any better to go against his better counsel and alienating one of his strongest allies because Laena Velayron is 12, especially when Alicent is apparently around 15. The time jump is a little abrupt, though I feel that we may have more to come.

I will praise heavily the attention to detail when it comes to costuming, something the GoT universe hadn't ever had a problem with thriving on, but I will say that sometimes it does look like the helmets don't fit as well as they should. Then again, this could be an intentional design flaw since this is considered a more peaceful period of Westeros.

I like the characters so far, mostly at the least. So far the star of the show is Matt Smith's Daemon Targaryen, the sociopath prince who has become social media's latest beloved bastard, both cunning and childish he fits a balance of being a villain but also one who still cares about his family. Rhaenyra and Alicent's younger actors have done really well, as has Rhys Ifans' Otto Hightower. Paddy Considine has been really good as the grieving king Viscerys I, completing subverting the descendant of his namesake we're familiar with by appearing at the least as a fair King and a decent person put under a lot of pressure by traditions. Sian Brooke did very well as Queen Aemma, given how she would be the first major casualty of the show, it is a shame we won't get more of her. Episode 2 got to showcase Eve Best's Rhaenys (George making it really easy to second guess every Targaryen's name and spelling) and Steve Toussaint's Corlys a bit more but we still need more of them, same for Graham McTavish's Ser Harrold and Fabien Frankel's Criston Cole, who have simply looked formidable among the crowd. We are yet to have a slew of charismatic characters equal to Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Ned, Arya, Bronn, Littlefinger, The Hound and Varys, but we can give it time.

Story-wise, I wish we had more time with Rhaenyra and Alicent before their rift, they established their friendship well but it probably would've hit deeper if we had more time with them, I understand the time jump but we could've had a bit more in between. While I don't think Daemon's a good guy, or that he'd be the worst king (more that he'd be a ruthless one), I do agree with him that the Small Counsel are trying to manipulate Viscerys for their own gains, seen most blatantly by Otto and Corlys throwing their daughters at him. Daemon being rescinded as an heir is grief-driven, especially since we never see him say it, but Daemon's reaction to it as detailed in Episode 2 doesn't do him any favours towards making it seem unfair. Viscerys as I pointed out is a good guy, but he seriously needs to work on his communication, from not telling Aemma his choice to let her die to try and save his son, to not discussing his marriage decisions with anyone or even trying to prepare his daughter for the throne, there is a difference between 'You will learn' and 'Let me teach you'. Alicent seems sweet, for now at least Arya and Daenerys once seemed sweet too, she is in a tough spot that makes me sympathise with her, I don't sympathise with Corlys as much, Viscerys should have married his daughter (or at least sought another way to merge their houses) but his own reaction going straight to Daemon proves that his ambitions are greater than his loyalty.

Of the two episodes I think my favourite scenes so far have been the jousting tournament - both for its visual spectacle but also as a strong introduction to Cole to what I guess will set up a feud between the two - and Viscerys confronting Daemon from Episode 1, and the Dragonstone standoff from Episode 2, not in that order though. The show has promise but since we're still in 'setup' we'll see on the next episode if it can up the ante.

[horizon-verizon]

I didn't add this part, assuming people would find it, but here is one post about Daemon & Alys. Where I included a quote Abt nothing being said Abt Alys while Daemon had Harrenhal and the narrator telling us that if she had any powers ("Whatever"), they did not have the same effect on Daemon as they did (if they existed) on Aemond. Once again, more proof how Aemond is Daemon's foil character.

So while we shouldn't speculate too wildly when it comes to trailers, those who read the book enough might not be able to help but spy the possible turns this season might take. And they had him say alone that Mushroom says AFTER the Dance happens (episode 5, to Laena). It seems to me that the show will make Alys a magical seductress who will try to Daemon insults and dismisses. Maybe she will try to get pay back and/or to assure her safety from him & his soldiers, she will use her somehow complex and strong magic--that's she couldn't use to just...run away and live on later when Aemond seizes the castle?--to humiliate him/get a better position than the other inhabitants of Harrenhal.

A leading question and mystery surrounding Alys Rivers has always been how much power--social and magical--did she really have, or what type and quality of acumen did she have as a woman in the midst of a seizure between 2 battle-focused and reputedly impatient men with dragons. This question--indirectly asked in the book because of her survival of these two men and the war when most of the Targs died (despite her closeness to them, her class, parentage, & her gender)--is one that Mushroom, Eustace, and Gyldayn all try to answer and all tend to fallback on old sexist tropes or the thinking that she had to have used some sort of magic and her unexpectedly younger looks to make Aemond think she was attractive enough to become his bedmate and war prize in spite of her age. For him to be so devoted to her as he seems to be, esp when he did not even manage to get properly betrothed to a Baratheon girl he had the choice to marry before he killed Luke.

Munkun says that he and Borros were haggling over dates and dowries before Luke arrived. So Aemond was also risking displeasing one of his own side's allies. Yeah noble and royal men have mistresses, but this early on and with a bastard woman who was much much older than the bride to be can still easily get accused as him snubbing the "better" "woman" with the "better" lineage. So that Aemond and not Daemon choosing Alys AND Daemon seemingly choosing Nettles and not Alys (Nettles is brown skinned, Alys isn't) is perplexing and can only be explained as Alys having strong magic to take away a man's will, this foreshadowing Rhaenyra's own assessment of Nettles.

They may or may not be taking Nettles completely out and I highly doubt that her skin color will be a factor in any possible accusations show!Rhaenyra makes against her since Rhaenyra never showed any distaste towards the Velaryons--again, the show cannot make skin color a part of the accusative narrative Rhaenyra makes against Nettles as it would really confuse people and they are really trying to make her more palatable in the show. Some fans have stated that they don't even think Rhaenyra sent that letter to Mooton to kill Nettles because of this tendency of outside entities' biased interpretations or agendas against these two perhaps messing with their correspondence AND it looking to them like a cool parallel to how they write about Alys. 🤷🏿 I don't know about that, but IDK.

Gyldayn especially credits Aemond a bit too much in my opinion. Or, in being of when and how he speculates why Nettles might have appealed to Daemon, Gyladyn does not credit or properly acknowledge and internalize the phenomenon of men choosing to make their own needs first and go against the grain when they have the leeway that a lord has over the domain he has "conquered". The "grain" here is the idea of males preferring young maidens. Gyladyn doesn't really account or conceive of how thrilling or validating it would be for some men to think that "claiming' an older women also works, in their mind, to "distinguish" and elevate them above other men, since the woman, with her experience, is herself a "prize" distinguishable and perhaps more emotionally even-keel to in turn give assurances to someone as repressed as Aemond that he would not see youngel girls capable of doing. Aemond likely thinks of himself as the exception, so he needs an "exceptional" woman as his "mate" that distinguishes him as "exceptionally" powerful. It's similar to that mythological principle of the King conquering that "Beast" or nature and thus proving his martial and-thus-political prowess. Aemond could have been put into this protector role of his side of the family's interests without experiencing gentler moments from any of his family members (except maybe Helaena...maybe) so he'd grasp at any form of intimacy that he thinks he can also still be direct and be the dominant of. Gyldayn is still in the mind of strategy and tactics, which is a field where BK!Aemond never showed much care to engage in. Show!Aemond shows nothing like that either, despite the "philosophies" comment. And I mean he displays no sort of wisdom, nor cleverness in his actions nor his words to anyone, and no his "Strong" comments of episode 8 are not clever.

It doesn't take much brain power to call someone already suspected as a bastard a bastard using a pun of their accused father's surname. Some might find it funny, but you finding humor in a thing doesn't define the thing you find humorous as "clever", just how you feel about that comment, the context, and the perception behind such comment.

The theory of Alys raping Daemon by deceit dates back to 2023.

It remind me of Merlin transforming Uther Pendragon to look like Gorlois so that Uther could have sex with Ygraine, the wife of Gorlois, leading to the conception of Arthur. But in Alys’ case, the theory is that she somehow fucks up Daemon’s mind, make him hallucinating he has sex with Rhaenyra when in fact he’s being raped by Alys.

One of the most disgusting thing about this being true is that they basically turn a rape victim into a rapist, Alys was taken as a SPOIL OF WAR by Aemond, and in Tumbleton, F&B explain what this mean for women. And if they keep Alys’ pregnancy, the baby’s father is going to be Daemon ?? 💀

Yes, I commented about this back in 2023, too. ["alys rivers' characterization" tag]. It's funny, I was just contemplating Uther and Morgana, but didn't go into how he sires Arthur yet.

I guess for now, we'll just have to wait and see if it has just been people hating on HotD in lieu of its other writing & messed-up characterizations/flaws.

[dwellordream]

Initial Impressions of HotD, Episode 4

be warned there are spoilers below.

i have read fire & blood, but i am not judging the show as to its accuracy towards the book, as i had major issues with fire & blood, particularly in regard to how grrm wrote the female characters and handled the Dance.

this is not an evaluation of it as an adaptation but on its own merits.

At least they finally gave poor Borros Baratheon something to do. I suspect the Baratheons are not going to play much more of a role in this show than they ever did in F&B.

There’s no way that kid is Benjicot Blackwood, unless they’re aging him up a good 20 years, but the Blackwood v. Bracken feud shout-out was fun, I guess. I don’t know that we actually needed to see someone die or hear people calling each other cunts in front of the royal princess (that seems like it’s pushing it) but whatever.

I like how we now see Rhaenyra confined to a ship to travel back to KL, instead of a dragon. It reflects how she is increasingly more confined in her role as heir, which ostensibly gives her more freedom than ever before.

Daemon wearing the ugliest fucking crown as King of the Narrow Sea is giving huge Theon as Prince of Winterfell vibes.

Personally I don’t think Daemon will ever forgive Viserys for exiling him the first time, so his very deliberate move for family reunion feels very calculated and blatant to me.

Viserys and Daemon mocking Alicent’s polite suggestion they tour the tapestries pretty much illustrates how much Viserys takes every woman in his life for granted. He still condescends to Alicent after several years of marriage and dismisses her like a child.

Alicent is understandably jealous of Rhaenyra’s tour. She never got even the semblance of a choice in spouse. There was no flirting or courting. Every facet of her life is controlled and decided for her. While Rhaenyra doesn’t have a wide range of choices either, she at least does have some autonomy as a dragon rider and heir.

Rhaenyra and Alicent are are really on the verge of rekindling their friendship at the start of this episode, so of course Daemon is going to be the spanner in the works. 

It’s not clear if Daemon is legitimately in denial that Rhaenyra will never have as much choice and autonomy (at least, not without serious public backlash) as a man would, if he truly believes that as a Targaryen, she should be ‘exempt’ from any sort of sexist pushback about who she weds or fucks, or if this is all a deliberate manipulation to try to goad Rhaenyra into doing something impulsive and losing her position as heir. I lean towards somewhere between options 2 & 3. I don’t think Daemon is this feminist king, but I do think he sees Targaryen women as a whole step above ‘other’ women of ‘lesser’ bloodlines. 

Here Rhaenyra explicitly states part of her reluctance to marry is because of a fear of death in childbirth, but I don’t think this was communicated very well before now. The show doesn’t choose to show her doing much as heir beyond seeing suitors. If the implication is supposed to be that Viserys literally will not allow her to do anything else but respond to marriage proposals, I think we should at least see Rhaenyra trying to politick outside of proposed betrothals.

Fire & Blood never really mentions Viserys being threatened by Laena wedding the sealord’s son, but here there is a much more threatened response to it, which I guess makes sense.

Alicent’s expression while cradling Helaena is absolutely vacant and miserable. She looks so uncomfortable. This comes right before Rhaenyra finally getting some joy and curiousity by sneaking out for a reason.

Rhaenyra’s joy at being referred to as a boy is really cute and the transphobic shit many fans have expressed in response to trans and nonbinary people relating to it is very shitty.

Rhaenyra being infuriated after she’s mocked by the smallfolk at the show and coldly responding to Daemon, “Their wants are of no consequence.” seems like really deliberate foreshadowing for some future actions she might take as queen, but I think it would have been better if the mummer’s play actually listed some specific reasons Rhaenyra is unpopular with the common folk beyond ‘she’s a girl’. The insinuation that the smallfolk are just stupid and sexist by nature and would never ever accept a woman seems kind of lame.

The contrast between Rhaenyra enjoying a night out on the town while Alicent is forced to submit to Viserys’ ‘attentions’ is very blatant, obviously, but I think they do a good job of showing how dull and unfulfilling Alicent’s marriage is, as well as the total lack of interest in her comfort or pleasure. Meanwhile, Daemon pushes Rhaenyra to pursue her own pleasure, but he clearly has a vested interest in seeing her publicly shamed and removed as heir.

That Rhaenyra doesn’t even try to hide her appearance again once Daemon reveals her seems weird to me. Does she really think this will never get out, or is she confident she can bullshit her way through it regardless?

Again, Daemon acts as if this brothel is a gender-neutral place of free love, but of course, married or single women are typically unable to visit such places without serious backlash. In a pseudo-medieval setting, this is really catering to men exclusively, and men of means, at that. 

I think Daemon may be feigning interest in Rhaenyra at first, but he clearly has some attraction beyond just deceiving her. The show very much downplays a dynamic that in F&B is essentially grooming. Obviously incest is the name of the game in anything ASOIAF related, but Daemon has known Rhaenyra as his young niece since she was a little girl. She has grown up with him as an older male figure in her life, a relation of some authority. Even if were to exclude the obvious taboo of incest, the age and experience gap is severe. There’s no moral way for such a relationship to occur.

Of course, I don’t think anyone would ever call Daemon ‘moral’, and the music during the scene is jarring and creepy, not particularly romantic, nor is the dark, dingy lighting. That said, is it depicted as an abuse or violation of any kind... no, not really. While that may be the consequence of Rhaenyra’s biased POV, I think the show could be a little more frank (especially since it purports to be much more in tune to abuse of power, women’s rights, and sexual violence), about how fucked up this is. 

I have no desire for them to add a scene of Daemon assaulting Rhaenyra, but I think you could imply that she is very much in an imbalanced dynamic here, rather than later make it a girlboss moment of her tricking Alicent and ‘playing the victim’. Because in reality, familial incest is an abuse, ESPECIALLY between older women/men and young men/boys or women/girls, and it has real victims.

Rhaenyra’s attraction to Criston feels like it comes out of nowhere. I know she gave him her favor at one point, but that just feel like silly teenage goofing around to me. I never felt like she was crushing on him much before this. He’s kind of just there lol. The scene of her ‘seducing’ him is uncomfortable because he seems genuinely upset and unwilling at first, and while he does eventually reciprocate, it’s not really a scene of mutual passion and longing. 

The question of who has more power here is contentious. Criston could ruin Rhaenyra’s reputation with damning claims about her, but she could do the same to him, and Viserys would probably believe his daughter over Criston, who is from a very minor house.

The show continues to do Mysaria dirty. We could have had her and Rhaenyra meet, even briefly, in this episode. Instead we get Daemon reviling her for no reason and more of the stupid ‘exotic is sexy’ accent.

Rhaenyra and Alicent are back at their old weirwood tree, but it’s not for a tender reunion. Alicent’s rage about this is I think tied to her feeling like she’s losing Rhaenyra to Daemon, and also, I think, some bitter resentment of the fact that she never even had the chance to explore these kinds of things. There was no opportunity for Alicent to be besmirched by anything, because her whole life is so tightly controlled.

“So I could be a remedy for your political headaches?” Well, Rhaenyra... it sucks but that’s essentially what arranged marriages are in this context. Having her be this incredulous about it seems odd. Why not show her pursuing marriage alliances of her own accord in an effort to shore up her own power, before Viserys interferes?

Overall I liked this episode more than the last, but not as much as 1 & 2.