#we got queer baited so bad for so long. so this show was such a breath of fresh air.

[ravencromwell]

Finally decided to indulge in the Siuan/Moiraine meta I've been wanting to write for ages now, musing on the differences in psychology ensuing from their significantly different arcs within the book and show and why Siuan's actions at season 2's apex are entirely in psychological sync with her show portrayal, even if they swerve wildly from the books.

Let's start with some Siuan back-story context. In the books, Tear was undeniably an unfriendly city for those with the One Power. But that translated, in practical terms, to Aes Sedai keeping their stays there brief, and girls who could touch The Source being quickly bustled off to the Tower. There were no Aes Sedai advisers, as in other kingdoms etc., but neither was there the virulent hostility of the show.

Siuan left Tear quickly in the books—the first day she was discovered to have the Power, but only because a sister was traveling through and didn't wish to delay returning to The Tower for such pesky things as sentimental goodbyes. Was that harsh? Absolutely. But the world of the books is exceedingly harsh in some respects, giving girls little to no choice about becoming Sisters, should they be discovered harboring abilities. (Much of Nynaeve's back-story involved hiding her powers precisely because she didn't fancy being ripped from The Two Rivers.)

Siuan faces a much different harshness in the show. The show doesn't do a great job explaining this, but The Dragon's Fang, which is etched onto Siuan's door before her house is unceremoniously torched, is a sign of immense contempt for Dark Friends. Within show Tear, a wary mistrust of Aes Sedai has curdled into something much more dangerous. All use of The Power is suspect, because if men's half was tainted, there's nothing to say women won't go suddenly mad, too.

It's worth remembering as well here that book Siuan was roughly fifteen when she went to The Tower. Now, I'm totally blind, and audio description doesn't give me an age for tiny show-Siuan, but if she's anywhere near puberty, I'll eat my metaphorical hat. And instead of being shepherded to The Tower, she had to flee for her life.

In her family's only means of support, I might ad. Book Siuan was by no means well-to-do, but she was firmly in the middling ranks of the working poor. Show Siuan's family are on the fucking destitution brink y'all. And she took her father's livelihood. Dying destitute ain’t fuckin pretty.

Siuan is not a stupid kid, and she clearly adores the shit out of her papa. The first thing that little girl did the millisecond she got any privileges? Wrote to her papa.

And more than likely, Berden never wrote back. It wouldn't take her long to figure out what'd happened. Moiraine is at great pains to tell Alana Jenny was not "her" support dog, and we laugh it off as oh, look at Moiraine being all adorably prim. Which in one sense, it totally is. But I'd almost guarantee you there's a deeper layer there: it wasn't "hers"; it was "theirs" because once Siuan found out her beloved papa was dead, they both needed something to cuddle.

This may seem like somewhat of a digression, but I'm maundering on because in the books yes, Dark Friends are evil. But they're evil because they caused a terrible cataclysm many thousands of years ago that killed lots of people, and they wanna do it again. There's no personal skin in the game for our beloved ladies, except they get thrust into the job through a convergence of some very complicated circumstances—I'd recommend any show-only watchers read "New Spring" because while I love almost all the changes the show has made ferociously, the way Siuan and Moiraine undertake the search is vastly more plausible as presented by Jordan there.

For Siuan in the show, by contrast, Dark Friend has _very personal ramifications. Dark Friends caused the corrosive mistrust that got her papa _killed! And Moiraine, better than _anyone, knows how that broke her.

And she _knows full well she could be deposed simply for having a relationship with Moiraine. The sensible thing to keep all the awful people from committing terrible crimes that will reverberate down the centuries to impact a little girl just as she was impacted would be to keep both their noses clean. And yet, she loves Moiraine so much that she'll take that risk to maintain not only an alliance about Rand, but a romantic relationship which could, realistically, be discovered much more easily.

And now, Moiraine, the woman who parroted back her beloved father's words of farewell about how Siuan was as clever as a pike and strong as the tides seemingly willfully lied; seemingly became a _Dark _Friend. Even her admonition that Lanfear is "too strong" must bring up so many awful questions: just how long have they been working together for her to know that? Because from Siuan's perspective, what it looks like is Lanfear coming in, guns blazing, to save her accomplice, Moiraine.

When Siuan says that there are rules and they have to abide by them, it's reflecting profoundly deep fears—not only about what Rand could do, but the kind of hatred toward those with The Power it could foster. For twenty years, she's put those fears aside. And now it appears that her going against Tower Law has lost her Moiraine to the Forsaken, and made terrible outcomes nigh on inevitable. And people are really confused about why she looks beaten?

Hell, from her perspective, forget Lanfear's entrance. The very fact Moiraine seemingly lied to her and is now talking about love must seem such a cruel mockery: laughing at Siuan's weakness; just as, perhaps, she was laughing at her with that parting comment in The Tower: an Amyrlin Seat still so swayed by what her papa told her so many years ago. (Yeah, we know it was as close as she could come to an I love you, but how the hell is Siuan supposed to know that, given everything?) This was not willful emotional abuse on someone she knew to be acting in good faith, but a reaction to the person she loved enough to risk the fucking Amyrlin Seat for becoming a monster!

Do I wish they'd picked _any other direction for their relationship? Yes, yes I damn well do. There was plenty to play with for angst factor by having the coup go down as it does in the books: Moiraine not being there to save her when all Siuan wanted was more time together, for one thing. Moiraine needlessly obfuscating in front of Siuan and  the other Sisters in S1, when Leandrin already knew! about the Two Rivers folk. Thinking she was being canny, when all she did was get herself pointlessly exiled so she couldn't protect Siuan? Quite enough of an angst sandwich, thanks ever so, without this new development. But! if they were going to include this, Siuan reacted precisely as I would expect her to, given the context I've outlined above, not in some madly ooc fashion worthy of the tags descending into emotional abuse discourse.

[mbat]

to reflect a post i made when i first watched ofmd a few months ago, i will always appreciate how they didnt hold back on the romance between those two men. every other show always seems to make it take so long for the characters to admit it to themselves, let alone admit it to their love interest, but they jumped right into it. it was something i didnt know i needed till i had it, and im sad its gone, but im glad it happened.

i hope it has other shows that follow in those footsteps, for the sake of all of us who need it.

ofmd was a great, and super weird, show. i didnt have it for long, but what a fun time it was when i did. 🫡 thank you

[worstqueerbaittournament]

Submission message: howdy, would like to submit keith and lance from voltron (lmao)

Submission message: BBC Sherlock and Moriarty / BBC Sherlock and John Watson

Additional propaganda: Now Keith and Lance on the other hand was a whole fucking mess that they then shoehorned in an hetero romance to try and "fix it" but by lord it was bad, everything about voltron is so fucking bad

Anyway this is my Klance propaganda : They were actually bait

Klance's queer baiting by the team was the worst!! We had to deal with NETFLIX ALSO GETTING IN ON THE QUEER BAITING!! If you searched up Kkance during the times for season 6-8, the SHOW WOULD POP UP. The directors would make jokes about it being canon, even Lance's VA got in the joke!

Their queer baiting was the worst for anyone who was even looking for an ounce of queer rep in that show. The only queer rep we got was a man who died after not even 5 minutes on screen, and shoehorned in the credit scene of a gay wedding of a character that was neither Keith nor Lance.

I do not know Agatha and Sophie, so I can't argue that klance was bigger bait or not, I just know voltron was mean lmao. the creators said stuff like "lance will be someone's first choice!" (meaning NOT ending up in a relationship with allura bc she very much chose another guy over him) and heavily implying he would be Keith's 1st choice (or a guy in general bc of point number 2). point number 2: they also released official art showing how super cool and diverse the main cast was! race! gender! LGBT - they had shiro (who was......canon gay but that's a whole other can of worms) and lance hold the sign with LGBT on it and then did absolutely nothing with that w lance at all (he hit on allura, so obvi he's not gay, but at least bi or smt) (UNLESS you count the scenes where he's flirty with keith). I just remember going into the last few seasons being like "klance probably won't be happen be honest with yourself there's like no queer kids shows!! but damn like it so could tho!!! because of how much it's been teased both in the show and by showrunners like I can't have no hope with the way the producers talk about it!" lmao I should have had no hope, but i genuinkey believed there was a possibility it could happen. and actually I discovered after the fact that i think one of the writers for the show who was the main advocate for klance (they had a lot of diff writers for eps, which led to lots of character butchering but ANYWAY) left not terribly long into the show I believe bc he didn't like the direction it was moving in and didn't want to be tied to the show anymore. so it's not like fans just made klance up either - it was written into earlier episodes with the hope and plan to continue developing later, and then just nothing ever happened with it besides INTENSE teasing it to keep queer fans around. esp after shiro's relationship was literally only a flashback and then his fiance thing or whatever got blown up before we even got to watch him interact w shiro as we knew him in present time in s7, so I think they kept being like hmmm klance and the stuff about lance being a first choice before s8 to keep ppl around. also esp bc klancers made up such a big portion of the fan base. then they made a horrible szn and ended it w a flashforward to shiro marrying some random background character who maybe had 1 line? I just remember hitting the flashforward and being like uhhhh who is this dude??? but they did that to hit those diversity points wow first gay marriage in a cartoon or smt idk it doesn't count to me really. so anyway voltron in general is queerbait lol but klance is because it started out as a legit possibility and then they said sike! but only maybe sike bc u guys are mad at us burying our guys in s7 so maybe klance could still happen haha okay now we're serious no it's not happening. anyway I think klance is p bad queerbait and a vote for them is a valid vote, not just u liking the ship.

#im sorry but johnlock is a household name in ther queerbait trenches

I don't know much about blaze runner, but this website made me endure Johnlock FOR YEARS, that ship makes me so fucking angry, and it's so much bait, the whole fucking show is just 4 kinds of bait in a trenchcoat trying to pass as something good, and Tumblr(and the rest of the goddamn world) ate it up like a five course meal. So anyway that's why I'm voting Johnlock

[dekusheroacademia]

Nicholas Light: using homophobia to be cancelled for clout

This is not a call out post, I don't care about that. This is a summary of events that I decided to write because I know how fandom works and behave.

I am tired of seeing people's "The MHA fandom is so toxic!" for events that never happened, and given this youtuber already revealed he is looking for followers through "being cancelled" (as I'll explain), I have no intention of letting the shitshow that happened be forgotten.

So here we go.

Small disclaimer: This is the sequence of events as I remember, with screenshots to add. Please do not harass anyone. Not even Nicholas Light, as he clearly does not want to be involved with the MHA fandom anymore. Block him only and leave him alone, I am serious. The point of this is showing what happened, not confirming his idea of how disgusting mha fans and bakudeku fans are.

Another small point: If I said anything wrong or incorrect in this post, let me know and I will fix it. While I strive to be unbiased, I am only human.

1)Initial tweet

All of this happened in the span of a few hours, the 9th of May 2024, middle of the night at central europe time. All the tweets have since be deleted as Nicholas Light erased a full month of tweets and went private to do so.

Nicholas Light is an anime youtuber with a twitter account (of about 40k followers, this is important later). He posted this tweet:

I saw it on my tl a couple of times, mainly people saying that he should not generalize and people wondering how come someone who has watched MHA for so long does not know about Bakudeku. This tweet per se is kind of bait-y, but nothing too wild.

A lot of his followers were answering to this tweet with homophobic comments like:

And Nicholas himself then wrote he was throwing up under a bakudeku safe-for-work chibi fanart gif that someone reposted:

At this point there were a few comments saying "It is not too bad, Bakudeku has grown a lot as a ship" or "I just saw someone posting Endeavor/Uraraka", and fanart of other ships with an adult and a minor. Nicholas did not reply to any of them, seemingly only focusing on the bakudeku comments.

Here are some examples I managed to recover, as you can see no answer from Nicholas, he was only interested in bakudeku:

2) The video

At this point, a twitter user replied to Nicholas' main tweet with this:

As you can see, the user is very calm and even says "come across as homophobic", so definitely more diplomatic than what I could have managed. Nicholas replied with "Stop with the your queer audience", to which the user revealed that they ARE one of his audience.

As you can see Nicholas repeats that he doesn't want that queer follower in his audience, and that "I SPEAK MY MIND". Keep this in mind, the irony of it, especially, given he has erased everything.

The queer twitter user was the only person he addressed, and immediately after them he wrote this and immediately posted a youtube video:

You can still see his youtube video up, by the way.

This youtuber saw one user replying to him and immediately posted a "I got cancelled for this" youtube video, and a rant of multiple tweets telling his audience "I AM UNAPOLOGETICALLY ME AND I'LL FOREVER SAY WHAT I WANT". He posted another tweet too but I did not screenshot it.

After depicting himself as a victim of being cancelled because one person asked him about how his tweet could be viewed some bakudeku users reacted.

The first to go was the tweet of the video:

The second was this tweet that was written in reply to his main "i don't want a queer audience" tweet:

the tweet is still here.

As you can see if you click on the tweet, the problem expressed is that he built a queer audience to earn money, but is now trying to appeal to homophobic anime audiences to be "cancelled", and earn some followers and money. How do we know this?

Because of this tweet:

This screenshot was taken that same night, so this tweet about "earning from being cancelled" was posted 6 days before he decided to actually try it.

And it is not over. The user andy (the one who revealed about Nicholas' only fans) was immediately blocked, and they were the one finding this "being cancelled= money" tweet and posting it. Imagine what happened: Nicholas immediately deleted this reply from 6 days before. Which meant that he was checking what this bakudeku user was posting to cover his tracks.

3) Lolicon is fictional, but bakudeku is a disease and the fans need therapy

Now let's go back to Nicholas' main tweet in reply to that queer user. You can see how people from his following reacted:

And this was his answer:

You can see that he immediately decides to call the user weird because the characters are "little kids", so the user needs to seek therapy for looking at fanarts of bakudeku kissing.

Except that this is when bakudeku fans and non bakudeku fans found his old tweets in defense of lolicon, fictional pedophilia and people like Mushoku:

Now, the point here is the hypocrisy and double standard.

On one side "loli and fictional children are fictional and cannot be associated with actual crimes", on the other side "gay teenagers being shipped are disgusting and comparable to real life crimes". People were quick to point this homophobic messy double standard.

Nicholas Light himself started to notice that people were finding out his old stuff and he was replying to no one. He first deleted the tweet with the only fans retweet, probably making sure his current homophobic fanbase would not find that, and then replied this to one of the bakudeku fans showing his hypocritical behaviour:

This was the last tweet before he deleted everything. Calling someone an ableist slur, then saying he was watching movies with his girlfriend and then spending the next hour deleting

every

single

reply

and tweet.

And then he went private and when he came back... he had deleted every single reply and tweet of this mess, and he had deleted every tweet that people had screenshotted around, and every tweet he posted in the previous month:

He scrubbed his whole account.

We are not sure what happened to him "being unapologetically myself", apparently his strategy to make some cash from being homophobic and harassing small acounts while pretending to be cancelled did not succeed.

And the reason why I wrote this post is because there is the possibility that he might try this again in the future, maybe even with the same fanbase and strategy. So keep an eye out, do not let him fool you.

[youraveragebtsstan]

Y'all, Tim Might Be On To Something... (9-1-1 S7E4 Reflection)

First and foremost, Ms. Evianna... Buckeisha- CONGRATULATIONS BITCH!

Welcome To The LGBTQ+ Family: Where ALL Queers Are Welcome Here! (Special shout out to ALL my fellow bisexual girlies. Dreams do come true- the visibility is REAL.)

In all seriousness, while we happily await S7E5, I'd seriously like to say thank you to Tim Minear and ABC for making Bisexual Buck CANON in just 4 Episodes (while FOX queer baited and gaslit our asses for 95... Thanks Girlie✌️)

This just goes to show that with the right DIRECTION and LEADERSHIP, anything is possible.

Anyway, since Seasons 5 and 6 took a bit of a nose dive in the Buddie Department, I've been reflecting on Buck's sexuality as it's own concept. (After all, he his own person. And as a true Buddie stan, I would be idiotic in thinking otherwise.) And since then, I began to really root for Buck's romantic relationships. But in doing so, I also noticed a disheartening trend... All of Buck's relationships were with people who he had little to no chemistry with- they were flings and one night stands. Other than sexual attraction or trauma bonding, none of those relationships seemed genuine. It's no wonder they felt disingenuous to me.

For 2 years now, I've been practically begging the writers/show runners for something REAL... And folks, I think we've got it!

I think I speak for most Buddie Stans (who have been traumatized by the grusome hands of FOX..lol) when I say Buck kissing ANY man was not on our Bingo Card. But baby, we hit the lotto yall, because BIXESUAL BUCK is FINALLY here. This relationship between Tommy and Buck is long awaited and well needed. (Seriously... I've been having Tommy and Buck dreams lately. I'm down bad, guys.) I do realize Tommy and Buck might not be end game, but Tommy is clearly going to be crucial for Buck in realizing his worth and his feelings.

If I'm honest, I could go on about this all day, but I'll save my chit chat for the next episode.

In the mean time, I hope this GIF of Buck outraging the homophobes brightens your day like it did mine.. ����💅😂🤡

[abysshare]

Normally i don't do this because like. While I'm well aware i can have my own opinions, i still don't want to make anyone feel bad for me being a disliker ( maybe hater? ).

Spoilers / talking about the new Venom movie below. If you liked it I'm glad you did! If you want to explain in why in comments, feel free! /genuine

I'll start with: i had a bad-ish day so maybe everything soured my mood and i wasn't ready i. The end. I also picked the wrong ticket and had to watch it in 3D < not a 3D fan due to being sensitive to flashing lights.

What i did like:

Implications of being bonded since v1

Knull ( surprisingly, i hate the comic story though I'm gonna be so real. But its been awhile since i looked up the plot/story ).

Agony and the Christmas themed Symbiote

Horse.

Dancing.

The blue symboite and that fire symbiote ( so pretty?? I loved the different powers and such. I want to draw both of them ).

The symbiote hunter, shes gorgeous.

What i Did NOT like:

Toxin being erased entirely.

They killed of Carnage and Cletus in 2 so this whole thing flopped without them IMO

You can see where Disney or Sony whoever wanted this or that but when Tom or whoever didn't want it, it got scrapped and had messy left overs.

Too much action and too much comedy ( the dancing was fine, but the hippie family deal went on a bit too long imo ).

Why was Agony introduced but not the other three? Specifically Scream at least?

Knull having his own thanos moment for sony, a spin off or whatever they're doing.

Eddie's ENTIRE attitude.

That Montage was ASS. Hate that song too.

Too much going on imo

I would have loved to have a genuine queer moment, a kiss, a "i love you", literally anything. I can MAYBE understand if they tried but Sony or Disney said no ( fuck them ) but still. And no i was one of the few that hope there wasn't fucking or kiss with HARD tongue ( i am ace and also these two are my dads to me, it would've been awkward ). Yeah i see some people saying "Its textual" !!!

Yea sure thats nice but aren't you tired? It doesn't have to be queer baiting but like. I'm so tired.

Even if you remove that um? Its not.. that great.

I'm WILLING to watch it again and read positive sides. Because my mood just may have soured.

i think my biggest issue if i take everything away what i just said, is Eddie just going back to being annoyed at every little thing Venom does or wants. ITS OKAY to be concerned about being found by the hunter, but even before then hes just so done. And even during? He should've been concerned. Or Yeah he CAN be annoyed / irritated, but it should be with care. This felt like he was back to thinking of Venom as a tumor, something he just needs to get rid of.

It was vastly upsetting as someone who has partners. Like.. it would be okay if this was the second or first- but it isn't!!!!! And yeah couples fight, but they didn't even do that. Couples have disagreements! But they didn't even talk it out or anything.

Also like? One of my things that bugged me was, when Eddie was complaining about his feet, and we knew Venom couldn't fully take over..... why didn't Venom just yk. Cover his feet for him and walk? That would have been a subtle sweet gesture while they could've still been bantering and so on.

If they had like. Argued, fought, had an emotional moment at the end, Eddie was upset he never got to apologize- i could see it. But thats another thing- he wasn't even THAT upset...

Its fine to not be a super empathetic person, fuck i dont always cry appropriately either. But he didn't show Nothing and not in a "i'm a no empathy person" way.

Idk!!!!!!!! My brain is scrambled.

People have said a lot of what i have problems with already but idk i just!!! Feel the need to put it out there.

Also i missed the second end credit scene :,)

Note: I'm not angry or completely a hater. More so neutral and not a huge fan of some things.

[ngardgni]

...So, we've been reading a few posts about how "Warrior Nun" is the best because it isn't like all the other queer shows, where apparently the queer couples have sex right away or non-queer shows that queer bait viewers, etc.

Let's just get something straight:

The original L-Word came out in 2004. That show was criticized for being too white, too narrow, too limiting in its depiction of gay women. In fact, it was mostly lesbians, and one bi woman (Tina) and most were femmes. Over the years, the show tried to course correct with the addition of other characters, most notably Max (Daniela Sea) and even that was fraught with controversy. At the time, Daniela Sea was interviewed about this and she had said (and we're paraphrasing here, that was a long time ago), that L-Word doesn't claim to represent all gay women, and she had hoped that there would be more representation of gay women, more movies, more tv shows to show the diversity, the variety, the spectrum of the gay experience.

At the time, pre-L-Word, there were only a handful of les/bi movies, mostly indie, some of questionable quality (there were a lot, we're not going to name names), some good (our favorite being "When Night is Falling" and "Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love"). On TV, we had "Ellen" which was groundbreaking and promptly cancelled, and there was "Carol the Lesbian" on "Friends", who was treated more as a joke, along with Chandler's trans-mom.

Cut to now - where we have so much more to choose from: we have period dramas with A-List directors and actors ("Carol", "Tell it to the Bees", "Portrait of a Lady on Fire"), we have shows on TV networks and online streaming platforms (tho the line between those are blurring). So we can watch Cyrano de Bergerac style movies ("The Half of It") or Asian American ones ("Saving Face") or pretty straightforward ones, really ("Imagine Me and You"), and though some, if not half or most series/shows have been cancelled ("Teenage Bounty Hunters", "I Am Not Okay with This", etc.), we still have more shows/series now that tell our queer stories than ever before ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer", "The 100", "Glee", etc.) and we still think that's better than the time the only thing we had was stories with only subtext to keep us company ("Fried Green Tomatoes", "Thelma and Louise", "A League of their Own").

So, whenever we feel like it's getting bad, let's also remember the time when queer stories weren't even mainstream, when directors and actors wouldn't even touch or go near our stories, when we didn't have as many allies in the industry willing to put our stories out there. A lot of our queer stories from before, though far from perfect, paved the way for stories like "Warrior Nun"to see the light of day. And we love that yeah, "Warrior Nun" is about a friends-to-lovers queer story, but that isn't just the one queer story that can be told. The diversity and complexity of the queer experience can hardly be encompassed by just one series and it's not fair to ignore or put the others down just because they don't fit what you like. We like that we have the more adult, they-had-a-one-night-stand-right-away-and-fell-in-love story of Kacy on NCIS Hawai'i, the sex-positive one of Leighton on "The Sex Lives of College Girls", the stranded-on-an-island one of "The Wilds", the vampire-and-vampire-slayer-falling-in-love narrative of "First Kill", etc.

So, let's keep celebrating the diversity and complexity of the queer female experience onscreen but still honor the stories that came before them. They may not have been perfect, hell, they were even problematic, but, again, at least we got these stories and our lives are better for it.

And let's keep pushing for "Warrior Nun"and other stories to keep getting made and renewed.

Like and reblog if you agree.

Drop your favorite queer women story (movie, series, show) below.

[itsclydebitches]

With regards to subtlety in RWBY and the bees, when I first started reading your post I had a knee-jerk reaction to your point about only queer romances being subtle because of all the arguments over Good Omens and queerbaiting but you make a really good point about the tone of RWBY overall and about how in a show that obvious in everything, the fact that it's only 'subtle' about Blake and Yang is telling. I think it's easy to get stuck in an either-or mindset when it comes to discussing queer representation; that things must either always be as clear as possible or that subtlety is never a bad thing. So I appreciate your analysis focusing on how this relationship was executed in this show says about it.

"How this relationship was executed in this show" - exactly!! Oh, anon, I've been team "Of course Good Omens isn't queer baiting what are you TALKING ABOUT?" for years now and I'm of the very strong opinion that subtlety is a huge asset for that tale.

Suffice to say, yeah, the entirety of a show's context has an impact on how we read the queer rep (or lack thereof). A long-time ally writing a subtext heavy queer love story about two non-human entities, but refraining from defining that relationship with a singular, tidy label - or action such as a kiss - due in large part to that non-human characterization + the characters' status in the larger world + the fact that this was originally written 33 years ago + the complications of one half of the author duo having passed away, thereby making changing of that magnitude a very difficult decision is VERY different from a company whose recent homophobia/transphobia has come to light putting off a supposedly planned queer relationship for a decade in a story where every cishet relationship is established in a single scene. It's apple and oranges. Whether a show was cruel in its teasing of a couple, whether the fandom latched onto a couple that would have derailed the author's vision, whether creators are fighting tooth and nail against censorship, whether the story came out last year or fifty years ago, whether the story ever got to be finished... all of this and more impacts our reading of the queer rep; all of it needs to be taken into account. Which is partly why I think a lot of fans are upset with the bees becoming canon, despite simultaneously being thrilled that the bees are canon. When you strip away the generalized happiness of, "Yay queer rep!" and look at how this came about - the context - RT has done incredibly poorly, especially considering the leeway they had from the start. Viewers are allowed to be disappointed in that.

[itsdinlukes]

you know what? I'm not done ranting about Izzy.

Izzy Hands was never the villain. He did what he knew. He ran a ship. And let's be honest here, Stede's ship was a fucking WRECK before Izzy got there. Izzy just cleaned it up. Yeah, he was a dick, but no one was paying attention and always giving him some sort of sass. I'd be bitchy too.

When he became the "villain" was when his sense of security (Blackbeard) was gone and he did everything he could to get it back. He was trying to fight for his identity. He didn't know himself without Blackbeard. Hell, he didn't even rat out the crew, just Stede who was actively taking Edward away from him. Obviously, it backfires. We see him, instead, get abused by the only family he had. The only person he loved and put before his own needs.

Now, in season two, he's making his apologies. We finally see him become a human again. He finds solace in the crew that he hated before. He got a new family. And what does Blackbeard do when he sees this?? Shoots him in the fucking leg at a spot where he needed it amputated and DIDN'T CARE IF HE DIED. The crew Izzy had spent so much time hating hid him from Blackbeard, protecting him like he protected them. He became their figurehead. Their unicorn.

And when he lived? Blackbeard gave him a gun to finish the job.

Eight episodes later and Edward is back and everyone is singing praises. He gets welcomed back with mostly open arms after he traumatized EVERYONE because of one bad breakup. He only apologises to Fang. Sure he did the cat bell and a general apology, but traumatizing a whole crew and trying to murder your first mate because he tried to protect them isn't something you can just blanket statement.

Izzy dies because he's still trying to protect his people. People Edward abandoned on a whim. Izzy died protecting HIM again.

There was no reason Israel Hands had to die.

Also the theory Buttons is going to resurrect him? Jfc if that happens I'm fully done. That's such a cheap trick? And if this is just manipulation, that's sick as hell. We finally get queer characters and everything about this show is against "kill your gays" and yet here we are PLUS BAITING?? fucking insufferable.

sorry this is long and probably incoherent. I'm angry, upset, and exhausted.

[trivial-writing]

Ever since watching voltron, my bf and I have been having our little neurodivergent rants about it. Like, for example, the queer baiting. Shiro was gay. What do you mean? Give us sustenance people. Give us food. Shiro married a blank slate. How about you don’t kill off Adam. Hm? How about you don’t make Shiro marry a blank ass slate. Like, seriously, who was Curtis? Making Shiro gay isn’t representation to me. That’s lying to your audience and virtue signaling. You make Adam such a big deal, but he dies thirty seconds after. That’s terrible representation..

My boyfriend and I both agree that Shieo should’ve been asexual instead. I mean the black lion uses purple. So much so that I call it the purple lion instead. And, as aces ourselves, we think that would be excellent lgbtq+ representation.

I’m not done with my lgbtq+ representation thoguh. We, as the audience, got baited into Klance. I’m pretty sure there were some tweets talking about how they, the creators, knew Klance would be popular. They give us gay-coded scenes, but they aren’t gay enough. That’s the problem. The creators play it too safe. They shouldn’t care about what other people think. Pushing against stupid “criticism” is the first step to being a good writer. (Also, they give us two dead lesbians. Why?)

We also talked about the lions. The lions don’t show how the Paladins fit them. Allura just says, “oh, you fit because pfft.” Awakening Blue was amazing because of the setup. The rest weren’t given the same amount of gravitas Blue had. Pidge literally jumped in the vines, and that’s it. She pilots the Green Lion now. Hunk gets sort of the same gravitas as Lance, but still, it kinda sucks. Why doesn’t Blue go to the other Lions, then go to the other Lions? Why am I the only one who thought of this? Oh wait, my boyfriend made a fanfic about it nvm.

My boyfriend had a fanfic idea that was just a fix-it fic. If he wants to, I’ll post it. I think his ideas were really good. If you want to read some of his ideas, let me know.

My bf really liked the setup for Lotor, and I did too. He liked the fact that Lotor wanted a different way to expand the Galra Empire. He was like Azula and Zuko mixed together. If you look at one of my older posts, you’ll see my little mini rant about Lotor’s redemption arc. I want Lotor to be a Zuko-like. He’s an interesting character who deserves a redemption arc. Btw, my boyfriend wanted the fem!Keith member of Lotor’s group to be Krolia’s(am I spelling her name right?) daughter. We both wanted Lotor’s team to be redeemed too. More me because I actually watched Avatar, and I want an Azula redemption arc badly.

So… I didn’t know where season three ended and season four started. I just watched. The whole switching the Lions was weird. If the Lions choose certain characteristics for their pilots, then how come Lance got the Red Lion? Lance didn’t develop into a Keith-like person. If Red is stubborn and hard to tame (or something like that), how come Red doesn’t show that. You can’t say something and do nothing to affirm what was just said. SHOW Keith having trouble controlling Red, and Red disagreeing with him. SHOW Hunk being reliable. SHOW Pidge’s requirements for Green.

I felt the introduction to Zarkon was weird. I like how Avatar set up Ozai. Avatar showed Zuko being a bad person. Zuko was just the Banished Prince. Then Azula showed up. My boyfriend exclaimed, “This is Azula!? She’s only his daughter?! Wtf, Zhing?” Give us two or three seasons with Zendak, then have Shiro die, then fight Zarkon, then fight Lotor, then fight Zarkon again. This way better. How come no one thought about this? Oh, wait, my bf wrote a fix it fic.

Anyways, that’s enough writing for me. This is a long post. I’m gonna sleep.

[foundfamilynonsense]

One un-acknowledged part of queer bating is like. Sometimes tv shows try to queer bait and accidentally create the perfect aroace character.

Like Will from Stranger Things is the perfect aroace character. Season three is just him looking around and discovering all his friends are in relationships and he’s like what the hell? We’re still kids? Let’s just play dungeons and dragons like we used to?

And Mike says we all have girlfriends it’s not our fault you don’t like girls. And people call him the f-word bc of course they do. Bc he doesn’t like girls. And he’s harassed for that. And he knows he’s different. The fact he doesn’t like boys either doesn’t even matter.

And then in season four he draws this heartfelt picture where his old friend group is back together. And he’s telling Mike “you’re the heart” as in “you’re what keeps the group together. The group works through you. Without you, we aren’t friends anymore.” Bc he just moved away and he’s desperate to keep his friend group and he knows it will stay together as long as Mike keeps it together. But that’s such a close and personal and intimate conversation and guys are not supposed to acknowledge that they need their friends so badly. And what happens after he finally works up the courage? Mike goes back to talking about his girlfriend, because that’s all Will’s friends seem to care about anymore. And what was the point anyway? Mike’s only there to see El. He wouldn’t have even bothered to visit Will.

Now. Is this what the writers wanted us to take from these scenes? No. They wanted us to take that Will is gay and in love with Mike. But they don’t have the balls to come out with it so they accidentally create the perfect aroace character and plot line. Plot line about your friends “growing up” and getting crushes while you stay put. About spending hours and weeks and months trying to formulate how your friend group could stay together and realizing this one person is the load bearing friend. And then having it not matter, bc having crushes is natural for them.

But obviously the writers aren’t on our side. And the queer community isn’t on our side either bc this is so obviously pointing towards a mlm relationship and why are we trying to get in the way?

And that’s the tricky part with me and obvious queerbait. It’s that I feel like I can either see what I naturally see: a plot line that mirrors my own adolescent experience better than any other.

Or I can stand by the queer community and say of course Will loves Mike. That is what the writing is trying to get us to realize. And the fact that that the writers are doing it in bad faith with no plan to follow through is homophobic and wrong.

And of course I stand by people who want Will to be canonically gay and in love with Mike. But I also remember when I was in middle school/ just starting high school and my friend group was falling apart. And I decided that this one girl could keep us together. So I got attached to her. And this one girl started pushing me away. Probably because she thought I was gay and had feelings for her. Or just because she decided I wasn’t what she wanted anymore. And I remember sobbing over that, because these friends were all I had. Just them and my family. Bc I knew even then romance wasn’t really an option for me. And that’s so beautiful shown in Will’s story.

Too bad that’s not what I, as a member of the queer community, am supposed to think of this character. I’m supposed to be angry at queerbaiting. But… where else could I get stories like this if not from queerbaiting? Who else is telling such heart breaking stories about losing a friend when they start dating? Where else will I get such perfect aroace characters in popular media?

[eisforeidolon]

About the Cas is autistic thing..

While watching the show in real time, it was pretty clear they were writing Cas’ struggle with cultural assimilation- except on steroids as a species assimilation. That was why Cas was so interesting at first. Immensely powerful with no humanity because he wasn’t human. Watching him struggle with understanding the complexity of the human experience was a side arc I enjoyed. The writers got lazy and could find no other use for him then to parody that early arc in later seasons. Sad, really. And then Misha just ruined him with the queer baiting and it was “So long Cas!! You’re a joke now.”

The autism thing is interesting. My son is autistic, and I’ve learned so much from him as he’s gotten older about what all that entails. I think there are a lot of people who resent the autism parallel, and others who identify with it. It’s highly relatable for the autistic individual to look at a character who is struggling with social norms and boundaries, and feels uncomfortable in his own skin at times. It can also be insulting when that discomfort was exploited as a way to make him a joke, or parody. Others may feel it insensitive to insinuate an autistic person just needs to learn how to human better, and that autism is something you can overcome (for lack of a better word- I don’t believe it’s something anyone has to overcome)

I think it’s really great people can find things to relate to in characters, but it’s so bizarre when people insist it’s the ONLY way to relate to the character, and only a subset of people can understand it. Awkwardness is a pretty standard human experience. As is pain, grief, love, silliness, etc etc. I’ll never understand how groups of people can claim a human emotion as strictly their own when it’s so universally experienced- not to mention the regressive way they think everyone within a subset of people will respond the exact same way to each iteration. It’s an incredibly simplistic and boring way of viewing people

Yeah, season 4 Castiel and season 15 Castiel are entirely different characters. IMNSHO, it was far less character development and far more character decay from neglect, indifference, and just plain bad judgement. He started out as an awkward outsider, which was occasionally played situationally for laughs - but he was also knowledgeable, competent, and occasionally straight up badass. By the end, though? He was the butt of the joke, he rarely had anything useful to contribute except more bad decisions to move the latest so-called plot along, and villains even made fun of him for needing to be rescued by the Winchesters because by that point he was shown as just that incompetently pathetic in a fight. And then to turn what he still had left, an overall arc of learning about free will and trying to do the right thing while finding out how hard that could be ... into just being obsessed with Dean? Oof.

Okay, that was a bit of a sidetrack, so back to the autism issue? The thing is, even if Castiel had been written as an autistic person, that still wouldn't be some all-encompassing good representation everyone with the condition would be obliged to see themselves in. As it is, when the character was not written with that intention at all (as you say and as per last post, he's an obviously recognizable trope about alien outsiders)? It's even more questionable to state it as some definitive inherent connection to an autistic person's experiences - especially in this case, where it's effectively equating autism to not being human. Which is very obviously potentially insulting and offensive. It doesn't have to be, and there's nothing wrong with seeing it either way - which is why someone speaking for the character in a definitive direction that is not coming from authorial intent is Not Great. I think wanting to make those definitive kind of statements of interpretations of the characters are overall a complication of how much we as people tend to think in terms of ingroups and outgroups and like to label things, but, again, as you say? That's a very simplistic and inaccurate way of viewing people. Not only that, but being so focused on categorizing people can be ultimately unnecessarily divisive and easily lead into othering and dehumanizing people who you decide aren't enough like you.

[aceofshitposts]

oh lmao well worth a shot I guess. ty for the polite response though. any particular reason for hating it, just out of curiosity? 💞💞

honestly this video explains it better than i could in a fun engaging way: sherlock is garbage and here's why by hbomberguy

but spoilers for the series. a too long didn't watch of non spoilery stuff:

over produced (we do not need that many arc shots, we do not need a matrix journey into sherlock's 'mind palace')

bad faith interpretation of sherlock holmes in. several places

irene adler. just. all of that

moffet's favourite thing to do at cons is make fun of how much fans like and want to engage with the show

cumberbatch is acephobic (to be fair, this is potentially old information. it was [checks notes] over ten years ago lmao but as far as i know he hasn't said anything against his previous stance on asexuality so.)

i just do not like freeman. the vibes do not jive with me

treats the viewers as ultimately stupid, we never get a chance to solve the mysteries in the show ourselves, instead sherlock will eventually say he has the answer, then he'll refuse to tell anyone until the moment that would make him look best lmao

like. listen i just hate shows that are about mysteries or like... chess, just for example and no reason at all, and they refuse to treat the audience with any faith. they don't SHOW us why the characters are smart they just continuously TELL us the characters are smart and expect us to be impressed

queer baiting (this feels weird to say because of the actual watering down of this phrase by younger fans using it to mean 'any time my ship wasn't canon' and the like no it was real this time)

moffet loves to tease something interesting and then it'll never happen because he got another season and therefore doesn't actually have to answer the question he posed at the end of the last season that got you interested in watching the next season in the first place

anyway. i did enjoy the first.... two seasons when they first came out but even by the end of season two i was starting to see things that just. weren't engaging. the writing wasn't there. and i already knew about moffet and cumberbatch's disdain for their fans so. sour taste and all that.

the more i say things about sherlock the more i realize sherlock was just the warning for what would become the mcu. god. rest in fucking pieces.

[cringetism]

warning — long post incoming

this "dreamnotfound: consequences of baiting your audience" whatever video looks like it sucks. making an entire hour and a half video critiquing 2 best friends' sexualities and how they joke with each other is so lame. i was gonna give the video a chance but seeing as other people are saying it compared dnf to epstein of all things, i don't wanna give this freak views lmao, even if youtube has been shoving it down my throat since it came out.

people wanna get so up in arms about "queerbaiting" without actually knowing what it means or why real people can't queerbait. got harassed in 2021 for saying real people can't queerbait and using dnf as an example but i stand strong by my opinion. this isn't just about the video, this is about people getting pissed about dnf "queerbaiting" in general.

queerbaiting refers only to fictional media because fictional characters in fictional media are controlled by their creator(s). their sexualities and how they express themselves are chosen for them because they are fictional characters. in wikipedia's words, "Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but do not depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ+ representation. The purpose of this method is to attract ("bait") a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion or possibility of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while not alienating homophobic members of the audience or censors by actually portraying queer relationships."

real people can't queerbait because real people can't choose their sexuality and are entitled to their own ways of self-expression. dictating that only queer people are allowed to do this and only straight people are allowed to that is not promoting inclusivity or acceptance. it also enforces stereotypes.

plus, what even are the "consequences"? that people will see them as gay/dating? who the fuck cares?

a portion of dteam's audience is on the younger side (the kid dteam fans that only engage with their youtube content) if they see 2 men flirting, they'll think it's normal for people of the same gender to flirt— which it is.

if george is straight (which people shouldn't care if he is or isn't), then it's a good thing for straight men to not mind being seen as gay. it helps enforce the fact that being queer isn't gross or weird, it's normal and fine.

dream and george are 2 white guys with huge audiences in the gaming sphere. it breaks down stereotypes for 2 influential gamer guys to flirt with each other and it deters bigots in the gaming sphere + shows would-be bigots that again, people of the same gender flirting is normal.

they're not "baiting" anything. they've said they aren't dating and currently have no plans to date. it's not like "ooh, are we dating? better stay tuned to find out ;)" it's "we're not dating but we're close with each other and like to flirt."

why is it an inherently bad thing for people to ship dreamnotfound??? dreamnotfound hasn't been nearly as harmful to dream and george's relationship as other ships like dan x phil or harry styles x louis tomlinson have been to their respective people. if anything, it's strengthened it.

dream is queer

it's not a big deal

bruh dreamnotfound literally lead a song to break records (heat waves broke the record for longest amount of time a song has spent on the billboard top 100 at 59 weeks on the charts) and has over 2 billion spotify streams, 1.3 billion youtube music plays, and 721 million youtube views on the music video. and glass animals themselves engaged in dnf before

as a bisexual trans man, i feel comfortable in the dream team fandom, and i like watching creators that don't make me feel alienated for being trans and queer. i love being a dnfer, writing dnf fanfic is fun. it's not harming anyone for dnf to exist, and if you're so "harmed" by it, question yourself on why you care so much about two minecraft youtubers flirting despite not being a dnfer yourself. they're not taking views away from queer creators, i am a queer creator and i'm getting hits on my ao3 dnf fanfic so if anything, they're helping. plus, i watch other queer creators while enjoying dnf. plus, dream is a queer creator.

you are not entitled to someone else's sexuality. they do not have to come out to you or anyone. thinking that "dnf are queerbaiting because they get to reap the benefits of being in a queer relationship online without actually dating" is so gross. they don't have to date if they don't want or plan to. also, being queer online isn't all sunshine in rainbows, dream has faced quite a bit of homophobia (and quite a bit of that homophobia comes from people acting like they're helping the community by 'calling out queerbaiting...' cough cough k*ceytron). george doesn't talk about his sexuality publicly all that much and that's his choice that he's entitled to. dream has come out, saying he knows he's somewhere in the LGBTQIA+ community, but doesn't know where yet or have a label, and he gets people being homophobic to him. yet people claim they're "inclusive" and "support all queer people." and saying "i'm not homophobic— dream's a straight man!" is homophobic because he's not a straight man. disliking a queer person doesn't give you an excuse to be homophobic.

TLDR/"i ain't reading allat" — queerbaiting refers to when creators hint at queerness in their media without having to actually show queerness. real people can't queerbait because they can't choose their sexuality and are entitled to their own ways of self-expression. dnf flirting actually has benefits, and telling people they can or can't flirt with each other based on their sexuality isn't inclusive or accepting lmao. you're not entitled to someone else's sexuality.

people who aren't in queer relationships flirt all the time. why is it such a bad thing if dnf do it?

(also before people come at me for "yapping," this fuckass youtuber is doing 10x the yapping i am lmao. do you need views that bad?)

[cosmicpoutine]

my reactions to the episodes under the cut

OMG GEIKOFDJNGKJLQEWALGFFSHH SOREN GOING BACK TO PICK UP HIS BOYFRIEND DDDLJKHBRESGLJKHAbsddf

Soren is being so gay this episode kjfashbbdlkhjgbg

not he talking about his frat parties

im loving the sorvus dynamics

THE MUSSHROOM IS A LITTLE GUY SDLKJGNHVVHLKSJUADFDANGNG I LOVE THEM

omg soren carrying corvus it's actually so cute

DFGBKLDFJSABGDLJ SORVUS HUGGGG

IF THEY DON'T END UP TOGETHER THIS IS QUEER BAITING

now you see this is how you make a ship good and well developed and this is how you make it compelling and dear, you introduce them as individuals and make we SEE them falling in love slowly

EPISODE 3

i sense the ship unfreezing

i knew it... it didn't last long and claudia is back

the ship speech made me feel called out

rayla: we shouldn't read someone's diary stella: bitch idgaf

claudia taking a bath, she needed that, i bet she was stinky after all of that dried blood

omg only one bed evolved to only one blanket. you can cuddle callum it's okay

damian?????? ASTHMA ????? CALLUM HAS ASTHMA CONFIRMED???

we owe stella everything, she's the number one rayllum shipper

okay claudia looks rly good with short hair. and magic prosthetic leg

not the ship sinking im gonna commit a crime

so they doomed rayllum... i hate it here

ez that was so cold omg

EPISODE 4

the dialog and jokes this season are so much more natural somehow?

omg to take the elevator to the middle of a room full of people is so awkward

claudia actually looks so pretty, she goes "so adorable" and it usually would make me cringe but somehow it's not so bad now?? huh

COSMO!!! he so cute

the backgrounds are so good

the jokes are actually kinda funny this season

EPISODE 5

not rayllum being like WE MIGHT be the main characters. no shit

soren calling viren by his name... that hurts and also shows how he has changed and how he sees viren completely differently now

soren being a big brother

lmao not stella trying to steal again i love her.

headcanon ethari sang that little song for rayla every night

viren loooks so good in this episode goddamnit

omg SOREEEN he looks so goos when he's mad and also miserable, but i love the way he's dealing with this situation and how he's interacting with viren. he really needed this, he deserves to be angry and sad and disappointed and to feel lonely and abanndoned. i love to see soren being serious

...a pet

this scene is so beautiful actually

oh you fucked it up for cosmo callum goddamnit

soren had asthma too... everyone in this show had asthma

omggg this is how viren got rid of his mentor, i didn't think they would be so clear about it.

cosmo is so <333333

but it will be a problem that they switched the pearls, will they ever know?? im so anxious

the mentor just knows the limits, he knew not to go too far and lose himself... unlike some people

the scene of callum flying up to the stars is so beautiful, both visually and meaningfully (?)

... domestic violence viren...? suddenly you're not that attractive anymore.

OMG??? CALLUM'S ONE TRUE LIGHT IS RAYLA??? LIKSJWHGFIAKJUJUNHDFGFS MY SHIP YEEEEES LETS GO

noooo that's why viren was so mean and cruel to soren this whole time. and soren worked so hard his whole life to get the attention and love he had for a brief moment as a child.

stella is just like me fr

THE SHIP IS NOT FROZENNNJK,HSGBALK,RDFSBGSJRHDGFS LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO

EEPISODE 7

WE STARTING IT LIKE THAT DSFLKJGGHHUIASDAGBGKUDFJ

IJAKLWSHGKUJSBSJ RAYLA LOOKS SO GOOD WITH WINGS SHES SO BEAUTIFULLL BLIKSJAFBNBGKK

i feel like flying is a arm workout, rayla and callum must be ripped

anya and ez are so cute bonding

janai looks so fucking pretty uggggh sorry amaya i want your wife

NOT GLEN BEING EMOTIONAL KNDSJKHGBS he's so cute

giggling and kicking my feet throught the entire wedding scene, despite the army outside

corvus is so smart

... did sol raegan really ditched them? lmaoo

... what the fuck

episode 8

what the fuck

soren no one is as good as you are. the way he evaluated the situation and prioritized the right thing

is this guy controlling the dragon??

... don;t force your dad to do dark magic tho

... did viren really just redeemed himself? i almost cried. that was the best way to give him redemption and give him a worthy death.

HE ATE THAT GUY... that was so violent...

i actually love this.

claudia it is time for you to understand that it doesn't matter how many times you bring your father back, he's always gonna die.

dragon skeleton

... im sure the spell worked

LAST EPISODE

... he had a kid??? dude what

LEOLLA???

iuerhgikujnhdgfaau RUNAAN LOOKS SO DEMONIC I LOVE ITTTT

HE LOOKS SO GOOD, HIS HAIR IS ALL FUCKED UP this man is so hot.

TIADRIN AND LAINNNN JKDNBSLGFKAUJDHNNHDF OMG MY BELOVEDS.

THEY RECOGNIZE RAYLA IM SO HAPPY I LOVE THEM SO MUCH.

aaravos rly is a dilf after all... goddamnit

leola is autistic

screaming and crying every time tiadrin and lain show up...... so they're dead now?

i knew they were gonna make aaravos the victim but the daughter was unexpected.

ruthari RUTHARI OKEANG;KJFEDGDNNGREGFE

AHDJAKSBDFFABSJHFFDDH ACTRUALLY LOSING MY MIND JINGALHJKBRGIUJEWBRLNGUIKJWNHGFRLIUKNHGJ YOUR HUSBAND IS WAITING OMG

I'M YOUR DAUGHTER YOURE MY DAUGHTER

IM GONNA DIE HERE OMG HJKABSGDR

its the same spell omg it's the same fucking spell

OH HES NAKED

oklj;nhshsdznb HES BACK HES BACK OMG MY BELOVED RUNAAN IS BACK

finally watching the dragon prince season 6

3 minutes in

NOOOOOOOONMONONONONON NK,MJDFGRRRVSAR,HJKEBSGLIBKBJSDGF FUCK NO NONJONONONO L;ET VIREN DIE LET HIM DIE PLEASE [PLEASE PLEASE LET HIM DIE WHAT THE FUCK WHY IS HE STILL ALIVE NO FUCK NONONONONONONONONO

[cirque-dhomosexual]

My professional Ronance analysis/opinion that no one asked for

After everything and seeing different opinions regarding the presence of Vickie, the possible resurgance of stancy, and such I was hoping to hop on and offer some of my own opinions and analysis. Just a heads up, this will be long.

First things first, I dont think we should approach this season with a sense of defeat. While vol 1 may not have given you exactly what you wanted and how, it doesnt mean that a. you will not be getting it at all or b. that they are writtin poorly. I've seen some people express their concerns with queerbaiting and teasing for it to not come to fruition but please keep in mind this season and show is not down and out! We have more to see. We haven't been steered wrong by the Duffers yet so lets not be too critical. Not to mention at the end of the day we are the consumers. While we can be vocal about what we want, we are not entitled to get it.

Alright now onto the analysis and opinion part. Let's start with Vickie. People have exressed their dissapointment in her inclusion and with good reason. For her to get alluded to during production to only get one scene feels cheap to me too. However, guys, this is the Duffer brothers we are talking about. They love to defy tropes and expectation. I think (read: hope) her purpose in the story isn't as Rob's gf- or if she is then it isn't her end game. As I've stated before, I think Vick here is not meant to be Robin's endgame. From what we have seen from her it makes much more sense for her to be a device to have Rob's character grow and not necessarily in the romance department. Robin herself stated that her chattiness is her "flaw" especially when she gets nervous. What I got wrong, though, was inferring that her crush on vick was superficial and built off the possibility of her being queer. I completely forgot she only had the courage to talk to her because of steve not the fact that she has shown interest. Even though her crush is genuine that doesn't automatically mean they will get together (even though as I write this it feels more and more like an inevitability). Like I said before, this is the Duffer brothers! Are they not ones to subvert tropes? I mean Vick could very well be a bait and switch character otherwise she'd have more weight in the story- I mean look at Suzie. It makes no sense for her to be included if she won't be utilized. It makes no sense for them to just thrust them together instead of building their relationhip and her character.

Rob has had an infatuation with 4 girls so far: Tammy (obvi), Vickie, and as seen in the book, barb, and Nancy! In Rebel Robin she was obsessed with barb and grew disdainful towards Nancy because she "stole" barb from her. Similar to Steve, Rob hated her from a far. She's always harbored some interest in Nancy. In chapter 5, Kate brings up the budding relationship between Steve and Nancy and ofc Rob's interest is piqued. In episode 2 of the podcast when Nancy interrupts her and Mr. Hausers convo and calls Rob by name she taken aback. I think this is the turning point where she goes from certified Nancy "hater" to seeing she isn't that bad. There are other points in the book like right after she has her whole monster revelation where she wants to protect Nancy. In short sophomore Robin's attitude towards Nancy is very much like "ew I hate her and her infuriating voice, her dumb beautiful hair and her genius." Which is arguably not hate and very very gay.

During the show, Rob senses Nance's hostility towards her and makes it her mission to remedy it. She jokes, she plays, and most importantly she clarifies (fervently might I add) that she and Steve are not dating. Why would she be so adamant for her to like her when previously she didn't care/ even like Nance? When she was a "priss"? It's out of character unless she likes her. But that's not all either, she is very vocal about how much she admires her intelligence, very nervous and chatty around her, obsessing over her likes and dislikes (when she is rifles through her things with such child like wonder and remarks about her poster), puts her in charge on the boat, follows her through the Watergate to save Steve without wasting a second (which Eddie himself says is a romantic trait) when it goes against her nature, and strangely push Nance towards Steve. I thought it was kind of weird for her to push Nance towards Steve after everything that happened between the two and of Nance's involvement with Johnathan but consider for a moment that she'd rather put her love for Steve first and use him as a proxy. She is undoubtedly super into miss Nancy wheeler and has been for a long time.

As for Nancy, she's a little more difficult to read. She's angry and standoffish with her at first. You can tell she doesn't know what to make of Rob, to her she was just done girl that went to the same school as her and then all of a sudden she's bffs with her ex Steve Herrington. She's magnificent and weird and opinionated. The moment after they walk out that library her attitude towards Rob shifts. She starts to warm up to her a bit more. She tags with her for the rest of the season. And lets not foget her goofy ass smile she has when asks if they are "officially friends" or the way she looks at her during her ruth performance. These two idiots are smitten with eachother and don't realize it.

That then brings us to the possible resurgance of Stancy and why Nance was so cold towards Rob in the first place. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the Stancy this season. It doesn't make a lot of sense for either of their characters but I will say that if they are endgame then I guess thats cool. If anything, I can see this being a character building moment for all 3 of them. I don't think that they will make them get together though, and if they do it will be briefly only for them to fully move on. These two have grown so much. Them rekindling what they had wouldn't make much sense because of this, this is why if they do get together it will only lead to them healing from their past. It couId even be a launching point into ronance. Now hear me out here, Iv'e mentioned the possibility of Rob using Steve as her proxy but imagine Nance not reading her romantic feelings towards Robin and attributing them towards Steve all while thinking her extremely capital P Platonic feelings are for Robin. This is the prime time for her to grapple with how hard it is to distinguish feelings towards the people you are close to. It would make sense for her to be jealous and mad at first and persue Steve thinking it is because she likes him.