#we don't know a whole lot about him from the comics but i have decided he's chicago born and bred | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

dinogoofymutated · 8 months ago

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THAT POST ABOUT CLEANING IN THE FLOWY DRESS? THINKIN ABOUT HANK? HNNNGGG PLEASE I BEG OF YOU

NSFW!Beast/AFAB!reader. - NSFW HCs! I was already on it when I got this ask heehee. These hcs were originally suppost to be part of another NSFW request I got for him but I was thinking about this too hard and comepletely forgot the actual theme of the req! So I decided to save it for later and just post it under your ask lol Anyway I need him my god. I was writing this while picturing watxm Hank but I'm pretty sure it works for any version. TWS: MDNI!!! smut under the cut. PNV smut. Eating out/head. Cum descriptions. Reader written with Fem in mind and also wearing a dress is mentioned, but overall no pronouns used. Creampie. Getting caught after the fact but not during the deed.

Okay, We all know that Logan has incredible stamina, and there's quite a few mutants that you would just expect that from anyway, but I'm 100% sure the one person that a good bit of people would NEVER expect to have insane stamina in bed is Hank. Like yeah he's nerdy, but dude straight up went to college on a SPORTS scholarship on top of his academic ones.

There is no fucking way this man has anything other than the most insane stamina. Dude is the perfect package of nerdy genius and athletic perfection. Can you imagine how long he could go on for in bed?? While you're sweaty and absolutely exhausted he's having the time of his life. Sure he's sweaty to but he's still. fucking. going?? It's like you'd been having sex for three minutes instead of four hours. He obviously gives you breaks and takes care of you, keeping you hydrated and such- but every time he begs you for "just one more". He's so gentle when he's gathering up your limp body and he's kissing your temples and forehead and massaging your tender spots, but he's a scientist at heart. He wants to know how far the two of you can really go, and he wants to know BAD.

I saw in a post somewhere on tumblr that he mentions that the one thing he doesn't have control of is his libido or something like that? It was from a comic snapshot so obviously this isn't even a hc it's fully cannon I don't make the rules.

THE FUCKING PHEROMONE THING!! For those of you who don't know, Hank was confirmed to have some minor Pheromone manipulation abilities. Like oh my god?? I definitely think that he will use it in sweet ways where he just wants some cuddles without asking you for them, but I feel like when he's hot and heated he just subtly does it without even knowing. Like he's super pent up one way and for some reason every time you greet him or pass him by you just start having more and more inappropriate thoughts about him. He'd feel so guilty if he catches himself doing it but at the end of the day, you don't really mind. Don't think too hard you beautiful big guy, can we just fuck already??

He will absolutely use his strength to hold you in any position possible. As long as you're both comfortable with it no position or hold is off the table for him. I don't think he'd be into BDSM or anything that has to do with hurting you, but I do think he's the type to read through the kamasutra and want to try all the positions to find the one you both enjoy the most.

He will fuck in the lab. He might do a whole "Oh my! Not in here, dear ;)" But most of the time he's instigating it! Sure he makes sure to lock the doors and everything but he's not shy when he has you splayed across his work tables, bent over you as he gently kisses and brushes his fangs over your skin. He likes how flustered it makes you.

He also cums A LOT. Like a lot a lot. He's most certainly got the heaviest balls you've ever seen, and they're not just for show. Every time he cums inside he causes you to practically overflow, and he's usually still cumming when he finally pulls out of you as well. He's a little embarrassed about it, and will clean you up very well because of that. He doesn't want you to deal with the sticky feeling of it drying on your skin, especially not if you have sensitive skin/texture issues. He is defiantly down to eat his one cum out of you though ;)

also, I think that he has a thing for long flowy dresses. I know there's a ton of dudes who say they like them bc of "easy access", and I know for a fact that Hank would find that sort of mindset disgusting. He just loves how beautiful and feminine you look in them, and also just happens to really enjoy the feeling of the fabric against his arms as he hitches up your skirt, his hands trailing up your thighs. As depraved as it might be, he also likes giving you head underneath your long skirts. He'd be apologising for being so ravenous and thanking you for letting him have you in such in intimate manner, all while giving you the most earth-shattering head. He's just so sweet about everything in the bedroom I swear.

You swear you didn’t fully expect to be in this exact situation when you were getting dressed this morning. Sure, you knew exactly how much Hank loved to see you in sundresses and were definitely going for a certain reaction out of him, but you never would have expected to be pinned against the wall of his lab, his large hands cupping your ass and thighs as he holds you suspended whilst using the wall as leverage. His thick cock is pumping in and out of you at a quick, needy pace. He goes back and forth from biting his lips and letting his moans and groans ring out and echo in the cluttered space. You’d never done this position before, although you certainly knew that Hank had more than enough strength to pull it off. Still, you were sure that the image of him fucking you, hands beneath your long skirt as it bunches at your hips and drapes down below you, was certainly a sight to behold.

“Ah- Please, let me know if this is uncomfortable in any way- nhg… I’m sure your anatomy is taking me quite… deeply, in this position.” Hank grunts, his thrusts deep and steadily paced in a manner in which he knows you like best. You smile at him, desperately trying to keep your eyes open as your hands clench and unclench on his shoulders every time his thrusts catch you Just right.

“Is that what you’re calling it now? “Studying” my anatomy?” You muse. You wonder if he had noticed you catching on to the glances and stares he does when he thinks you’re not paying attention. You purposely poke your chest out as you mention it, and Hank huffs in amusement before he buries his face into your semi-exposed cleavage, licking and sucking as he shifts your weight onto one hand as the other takes hold of your cheek. He puckers your lips, nipping at the top of your breast before he pries himself away, sending you a smug smile as he leans in teasingly close.

“You know, I really think we could be using that quick tongue of yours for something a little more useful than backtalk.” Hank chuckles. He kisses you in a way that leaves you breathless, still holding you effortlessly even with a single hand as he keeps up his thrusts. His free hand drifts down to your clit as your walls begin to flutter and clench around him, a sign that he knows means you’re approaching your peak and fast. His kisses match the intensity of his hips as he closes in on his own pleasure. You cum barely a second before he does, his cum warming your insides as he cums, and cums and cums. He overflows your cunt quickly, and it drips down your legs when he pulls out. Hank makes sure to help you keep your balance when he sets you down, your legs shaking from your orgasm but also a bit numb from the position he had you in. He kisses you gently as you recover from your high, doing so over and over again all across your skin. The gentle touches make you giggle a bit.

“Had a feeling that we would end up like this today. Maybe I should wear dresses like this more often.” You hum. Hank chuckles deeply before drawing you into another sensual kiss, his hands stroking up and down your now-clothed body in a loving way.

“I wouldn’t mind testing that theory.” He says when he separates from the kiss. You shake your head at him, laughing a bit more as you cup his face with love.

“Of course you wouldn’t.” You say sweetly. Hank is smiling at you, his hands beginning to wander again right before the two of you hear a mortifying swish of the doors. Hank quickly tucks himself back inside his pants before the two of you instinctively turn to face the door where Logan is standing with a bit of a confused look on his face.

“Logan! We were just-”

“Hey, Logan! Nothing to see here!” Both of you are scrambling to fix the situation, utterly and spectacularly failing as Logan takes one sniff of the air and then smirks.

“I’m all for a bit of risk, but at least lock the door, lovebirds.” Logan gives the two of you a sardonic wave before marching straight back out the door. Leaving both you and Hank more than a little mortified. As embarrassing as it was, you can’t help but begin to laugh, Hank joining you as you shake off the adrenaline of technically being caught red-handed.

“Let’s go wash off before we have any other unexpected visitors,” Hank suggests. You agree wholeheartedly, your laughter picking up once again as he lifts you off the ground in a bridal hold to head to the showers.

#I do have to say he was definitely about to lift reader back up and eat them out till the cows came home before Logan interrupted #x men comics #x men #x men headcannons #x men 97 x reader #x men 97 #beast #beast x men #x men beast x reader #x men beast #x men beast headcannons #x men beast smut #hank mccoy #x men hank mccoy #hank mccoy x reader #hank mccoy headcannons #hank mccoy smut #wolverine and the x men

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utilitycaster · 4 days ago

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feel free to ignore if you feel like it's too theoretical/parasocial/etc. but: I see how the campaign as a whole is off because of how lack of prep influenced the cast to create somewhat unfit characters, but as someone who got immensely annoyed by this episode, I'm wondering why has that throughline carried out for so long. why haven't the cast decided to start playing their characters in a way that leads to a more cohesive and satisfying story? is the hesitation and bizzare opinions on gods a very dedicated RP choice or do you think the players themselves are also at a loss? I'm honestly very confused about that, given how driven and decisive they played VM and M9 during their oneshots. I don't want to feel like I'm singling anyone out to hate but e.g. the way taliesin plays caduceus vs ashton is particularly puzzling to me.

Hey anon,

This is all highly speculative (as, to be fair, was the original idea the cast was given very little information, and that turned out to be right) but I think it's the far-reaching consequences of that initial lack of prep combined with the fact that it's been a very central-plot focused campaign that failed to allow the characters to develop into more decisive people. It also, I think, centers the Ruidusborn such that I suspect a lot of the rest of the table is taking their lead.

The Mighty Nein, we know, involved a lot of prep with Matt specifically offering feedback and vetoing certain aspects. Every character came in with pretty clear goals, and because it was a character-driven campaign we got to see those goals change as they learned more: Caleb and Fjord notably abandon their original goals in favor of new ones. Veth and Caduceus achieve theirs; Jester as well, and she develops new ones as she becomes less sheltered. Beau and Yasha's exact goals were much more nebulous, but they have the opportunity to confront their pasts at length and find new purpose and peace throughout the narrative. I don't think it's productive to rehash everything every time but: lack of pre-existing long-term relationships and more work on the short-term friendships that existed, the fact that Beau and usually Molly due to Yasha's absences (and later Caduceus) were free agents who didn't know anyone prior to their meeting, and the fact that the party had like 2 gold to their name and had to double up in odd configurations plus their willingness to engage in conflicts led to a fairly quick and deep bond, which also influenced their goals and dynamics.

Vox Machina were initially very generally sketched out characters, but after they began doing more there was a similar effort put into to backstories, and I think going back after they'd already played a bit meant they knew more about who they wanted these characters to be. The pre-stream plot, as we can tell from the origins comics, was also heavily backstory focused; the Briarwoods arc is when most people feel the streamed campaign really takes off.

We have seen the backstories of the characters of Bells Hells, but a lot of them are deeply tied into a long-running main plot that doesn't really allow for the same development over time. Like, Percy, for example, actually does his "plot" about quarter of the way into the campaign; but this kickstarts his development. Fjord is rather similar; he learns the source of his powers quite early on, but grapples with them until the halfway point and then the rest of the campaign is him embracing something new. To compare, I suspect Laura envisoned Imogen's story as being not dissimilar in the sense of "learn what my powers come from, find a way to better control or perhaps get rid of them" and so upon finding out this is the lynchpin of the entire plot, Imogen never has that post-resolution time to cook, essentially. Even for those who had slightly more rewarding plot beats they kind of felt like "let's address this problem so we can get back to the moon stuff" (Chetney, Laudna) and in some cases, I think it felt to the players, rightly or wrongly, like those plots were actively rushed to the point that they couldn't explore them (I suspect this happened for Ashton during the solstice split). There's been a hurry-up-and-wait sense of urgency over the whole campaign because it's a plot that was introduced very early and has never let up. There's been no "what do we do" type breaks and I'd be shocked if there are. We've sort of run out of plot because we've speed run everything that would have been a plot in a different campaign.

So I think the players don't know how to evolve their characters because there's been no in-world impetus to evolve, really. Now, as someone who prefers to play people who are already decisive, the fact that most of the cast went for kind of indecisive/impulsive types isn't my bag, but that is valid; but it means no one's really had the chance to organically move from that.

I also think that the fact that there's one big plot that really centers the ruidusborn is another factor. Even if Orym, for example, were the type to shut down the party, what is one person who can't reasonably stop two spellcasters from going into the Hallowed Cage going to do? I think this post makes a good point; I think putting the pressure very heavily on two players who (very understandably! for a number of reasons!) are among the most averse to making a hard and potentially alienating or unpopular choice has sort of prevented anyone else from taking a wild swing. The other campaigns had a much more even distribution of who could make decisions within the party, and I think that reflects that. I also think this is uniquely an issue for longform campaigns; I haven't seen this hesitancy from Laura nor Ashley in Candela, Downfall, nor in the various Daggerheart one-shots and miniseries, since you have to swing big there.

I do want to cover one point specifically, which is that I actually find Ashton to be one of the better played characters. I disagree with them, to be sure, but like, Caduceus is a character who can be arrogant in his fairly limited worldview, but who is also consistently very empathetic and kind. Ashton has that arrogance, but without those priorities. Caduceus isn't really invested in hurting those who hurt him; he's interested in stopping those who would hurt his home, family, or friends, and if that requires hurting them he's okay with that. Ashton really does want to beat up those they deem responsible for their own pain, justified or not. I think taking the shard was a great move and stand by that [though, admittedly, it and the bit about Predathos needing a vessel just now have me like. the consequences have been conveyed in a crystal clear manner to ME and somehow the cast is not getting Matt flat-out saying in game THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN, so idk what's up with THAT.] and my issues stem specifically from his decision to claim to speak for the weak and then immediately accept the titans saying that a remade world in which only the strong survive is fine. Like, I don't think there is a problem in how Caduceus is played vs. Ashton, in that I think they are both internally consistent as characters; I think it's just. Caduceus is someone who tries to make decisions that minimize broad harm to that which he deems good, and Ashton is often, by their own admission (episode 78), selfish and conceited. Like, Taliesin is just. Playing someone who is often not a great person this time. And that's a valid choice. But I think it's in a narrative that didn't really permit enough time and space for characters to change meaningfully so Ashton is a bit stuck there whereas, while Caduceus didn't have nearly as much of a gap between who he already was and the hero he needed to be, he had far, far more room to grow.

#cr spoilers #ok i kept this pretty civil fun times in the tags #it's really funny to watch c3 stans attempt to dunk on c2 #it's like watching booktok people on goodreads shit on Hamlet bc it's problematic and sad and insufficiently spiceeeee #i mean to each their own but it's very like. actually c2 was pretty beloved in its time. whatever the compulsive liars say #certain aspects were unpopular but like. it was pretty transparent the people hating on late c2 were bitter shippers #whereas. i kept a list of everyone who directly harassed me over shipping in c3. and all of them haven't posted about cr in 6+ months #like in the end it's just not very good and if you think it is it's because you're not very smart.#and we can talk about why it's not good and i think history will be less kind - i think its weaknesses will be enhanced by binge watching #but in the end i think the cast didn't realize that the circumstances to make character development feel natural and effortless #aren't automatic and require a lot of work #answered #anonymous

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thankskenpenders · 1 year ago

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As I'm sure many of you are already aware, Did You Know Gaming (who have been doing some really great investigative work lately) recently put out a video on canceled Sonic games. The whole thing's worth a watch, but I have to bring it up here specifically because they talk about the plans for Sonic Chronicles 2 with a LOT of new info directly from the lead designer.

youtube

The section on how the story of Sonic Chronicles 2 would have went starts at 9:45. It's very interesting! He outlines the whole plot, including the fact that they were going to end with ANOTHER obvious plot hook for a sequel in the hopes that they or some other studio could keep the Sonic Chronicles series going indefinitely. Sonic Team even claimed they were interested in using Chronicles characters like Shade in other games. It's crazy to imagine a timeline where this might have become a pillar of the franchise.

I refuse to mourn the loss of the sequel, though, because y'all saw me stream the original. It was miserable. And with the original game selling and reviewing decently well, they would have had little reason to go back to the drawing board and overhaul that game's bizarrely hateful design.

Of course, DYKG also had to talk about the reason why the game was canceled. I was dreading this because of how often people tend to get the basic facts of the Penders cases wrong or downplay the obvious Archie Knuckles inspiration in Chronicles. But no, they did their homework! And they got the details right in part because, well... they asked Penders for comment directly. And he sent them back a MASSIVE wall of text about the whole ordeal, including some fascinating details that I don't believe I've heard before!

You can go to 15:19 in the video and scrub through to read the many, MANY screencaps of their emails from Ken, but here are the most interesting and/or hilarious tidbits to me:

#1: Perjury!

As we already knew, Ken claimed that the incomplete, photocopied contract Archie presented in court was a forgery, and that he had never signed a work for hire contract.

The judge obviously knew that one side had to be lying here, and thus was more than willing to present the case to a jury to let them decide the truth... and send whoever was deemed the liar to jail for perjury. (The judge apparently looked Ken directly in the eye when he said this, which... well, make of that what you will.)

Archie's lawyers knew that they didn't have a completely airtight case and obviously did not want to go to jail. So they decided to settle instead of going to trial in front of a jury.

(I will reiterate that Archie's arguments not working out is overall a GOOD thing, because we really do not want to set a legal precedent where corporations can "lose" a contract for a creator, make up a story about what was on the contract, and then have that hold up in court. They gotta get that shit in writing. And they didn't. They fucked up!)

#2: Sega was threatening to revoke the Sonic license!

As we knew, Sega wanted nothing to do with the comic copyright lawsuit. To them, it was Archie's job as licensee to deal with their freelancers. (Y'all watch Succession? You know how Logan loves lackeys who will eat shit for him without him having to even hear about the problem? Yeah.) And, in fact, according to Ken, Sega gave Archie an ultimatum: if they wanted their license to make Sonic comics renewed, they were gonna have to deal with Ken on their own, and cover all the costs.

Yeah, uh, this kinda makes me think that Sega being pissed about the ongoing Scott Fulop copyright case in 2016 may have been a bigger factor in Archie Sonic's cancellation than I previously thought. There was a lot going on at the time that could have contributed, but, y'know.

Anyway, Archie sued Ken for "damaging their business" largely because Sega was threatening to take away the Sonic IP. But because Archie couldn't ask Sega for help and they couldn't produce an original contract, they had to settle.

There's another detail I find funny here, though. Ken WANTED Sega to get involved in the comic copyright case, thinking that Sega would strongarm Archie into paying him the millions of dollars he wanted for "using his work without permission" so that they could be done with it. I mean, sure. I guess Sega wouldn't have cared about Archie's finances, but still. I'm not so sure that would've worked out for him.

#3: Shade!

Yes, Penders still claims he legally owns Shade, and under advice from his lawyer still intends to put out an NFT of her to put his claim to the test. Yes, it's incredible that he still hasn't put out the damn NFT. It only needs to be one image, which he already drew! The market has collapsed!

Anyway, building an argument off the legal concept of estoppel, he says that if Sega continues to not do anything about his claims that he owns Shade then, in the eyes of the court, they'll be forfeiting their claims to Shade altogether. But they aren't going to do anything because they never wanted any part in the copyright battles in the first place, and to them Chronicles is a long dead asset not worth fighting over. Why bother trying to use Shade again and giving Ken a reason to take them back to court when they can just move on? It's not like this franchise is short on characters. And so Ken can say that Shade and Julie-Su are literally the same character, and if he owns Julie-Su then therefore he also owns Shade.

Our copyright system is, indeed, a nightmare. Chronicles should have been halfway to the public domain by now.

#4: Sega's oversight on the Archie comics!

Ken says that in his first year on the series Sega only requested some dialogue changes here and there through the editor. They never requested huge script changes, and also never spoke to Ken directly. After that first year, they stopped asking for dialogue changes altogether, and Ken "had a free hand to do pretty much whatever he wanted." Yeah, no surprise there.

He does, however, say that Archie's original deal with Sega stated that they weren't allowed to create ANY new Sonic characters without informing Sega. They would've needed to make a contract every single time to get Sega's approval and make it absolutely crystal clear that Sega owned the whole cast. And then Archie just... didn't do that! And didn't tell any of the freelance creatives not to come up with new characters! Had Archie followed this rule, the trajectory of the comics would have been completely different, but there also never would've been a copyright battle in the first place.

What a shitshow. Truly.

#tkp post

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fae-morrigan · 6 months ago

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hi! could you elaborate on the "jon beefs w batman" thing?? id love to read it, but i don't know much about comics so i wouldn't know where to look :(

IM SO GLAD YOU ASKED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE ITS LITERALLY THE FUNNIEST THING IN THE WORLD TO ME.

So, the series that introduces this is largely Son Of Kal El. It's Jon's big 18 issue solo book, its super fun, there are gay people, there is dismantling a colonialist government. More specifically the Beef Inciting Incident begins issue 10, takes up most of issue 11.

So, Jon's dating Jay Nakamura. Cool guy, refugee from Gamorra (place that is colonized that theyre trying to fix), independent journalist known as The Truth. He works closely with this group named the Revolutionaries.

Super cool, right? Jon's having a golden time.

Then, Lois pisses off Lex (long story but its equally hilarious), bad enough they're worried about the family's safety. So, Batman shows up to whisk them to the safe house.... but Jay's not allowed to come.

Jon's pretty miffed about this, and then Batman decides to be Batman and drops THIS bombshell:

We get his reasoning the next chapter: Jay's buddies, the Revolutionaries? Yeah, well, lets say they believe in DIRECT action. They've killed a lot of people (Pssst, you can read more about it in Suicide Squad: Bad Blood, which is one of my favorite books).

Jon does not buy what Bruce is selling. He argues with Batman about it, DESPITE NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT BATMAN IS WRONG, because the idea of BRUCE telling him who and who not to make out with is SO EXISTENTIALLY INFURIATING that he just. Straight up runs off.

Now, this gets resolved pretty quickly. Pa tells Bruce to knock it off because he's not exactly better in love, in a great scene that is one of my favorites from the book. Jon talks to Nightwing, then talks to Jay, and Jay is like, "yeah. They are kind of violent extremists, but they were also the only people who helped me when I was fleeing systematic medical torture and ethnic cleansing, so." We don't really get Jon's thoughts on this, but he ACTIVELY works with them in the finale with the stipulation they don't kill anyone, so we can kind of assume that even if he's not down with them murdering people, he's DOWN down with their Liberation politics. Which is neat!

... But Jon holds a grudge against Batman. Big time. Like, seriously. We really see it up close in Adventures of Superman: Jon Kent, where he's just... Dude. This isn't even YOUR batman.

^ Like, I think we all know he's referencing what happened with Jay here. Its VERY on the nose.

Even Injustice!Bruce is like "Dude, I literally just met you".

Like, seriously. Not even his Batman. Just batman-shaped. And he's catching CONSTANT strays from Jon. Its a whole thing. Before that moment, Jon and Bruce were actually quite chill: Jon even made him tea during the SOKE annual! Up until that point, Bruce was kind of just "damian's scary dad". Ever since That Exact Moment where Bruce was like, 'your boyfriend is a terrorist,' Jon has been like:

#Sidenote: I'm convinced Bruce's beef with the revs is because one of them (wink) stole the batmobile once #Not even joking she did that #Dc #batman #bruce wayne #jon kent #jonathan samuel kent #jay nakamura

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clouduru-chan · 2 years ago

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Well I decided to write something about some yanderes, well I'm kind of new to this, so sorry for any mistakes, well in the Brazilian yandere community, we usually write headcanons of some characters, as well as realizing that there were no headcanons for some characters here on Tumblr, I decided to write a little about them.

Yandere reacting to reader who cosplays

Monika

- Well, you have only been dating a short time, and she knew that you loved to watch anime, series and Doramas, read some manga and light novels or play some video games, and since you know her well, you call her to watch something that involves romance;

- But something caught you off guard, when you simply showed up at the meeting with the cosplay of a romance anime you like to watch with your girlfriend;

- You did it because it might please your beautiful girlfriend;

- you cosplayed Kaguya Shinomiya from Kaguya Sama wa kokurasetai;

- Well you just wanted to surprise her, and Monika rather liked that, and with that she pours sweet kisses all over your face, and you turn into a blushing mess;

- You get a little clumsy around your girlfriend, so you don't get into the role of Kaguya too much;

- Monika loves how Kaguya Sama's school uniform dress looks perfect on you;

- Well you have been doing character cosplays for quite a while now, so it would be nice if your girlfriend knew about it;

- Well Monika realized at first that this was not the first cosplay, as it was very well done;

- When you stopped being embarrassed by the situation, you decided to act like the character you had cosplayed;

- Monika laughed a lot at your performances, because you were able to get perfectly into the role of the character;

- She loved the work you did just for her, you had so much love and dedication to it, she feels sweet, she will one day repay that;

Ayano Aishi

- She was waiting for you outside your room, but out of nowhere she feels caught, she feels your hands on her thighs and back, you had picked her up;

- This yandere turned extremely red when you did this, and when she looked at you, you were in costume;

- You were cosplaying Yuji Itadori from Jujutsu kaisen;

- The two of you kind of decided to hang out together at the comic con, to tell you the truth, you were the one who urged her to go to the event;

- At the event, you were holding hands the whole time;

- Ayano wasn't in cosplay, since she didn't see much point in it, but so that people wouldn't look down on her for not wearing something from pop culture, you lent her your Attack on Titan freedom wings sweatshirt;

- Ayano was extremely happy and flushed with this gesture, it will be a little difficult for her to return the sweatshirt to you, as she will place it on her altar with other of her belongings;

- At the event, many people came up to you to compliment the cosplay, but until one person came up, making a reference to the anime:

" What is your type of woman"

Ayano grimaced at that, why ask such a personal and stupid question?

She hadn't understood the reference, so you got into character.

"My kind of woman? My kind of woman is tall and big-butt, just like my girlfriend Ayano Aishi! He then points to the dark-haired girl.

Congratulations you have made this yandere extremely clueless.

Alan Orion

- Alan had arranged for you to go out into the forest, since he had a surprise for you;

- But you had an appointment, so you told him you were going to be a little late, of course he was annoyed by this, what was more important than him?!;

- Well you had to go to an anime event that was going to be held at the gym, a lot of people who like pop culture went there, so obviously to show your work, so you went in cosplay;

- The cosplayer you did was Rem from Re: Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu;

- After the event, you were in a hurry to go see your boyfriend, because you knew he had been upset with you for changing the appointment time;

- By this time you hadn't even taken off the accessories you were wearing to make the cosplay, so you go straight into the forest to see that man;

- When you arrived, Alan was sitting with his back to you, and as soon as you approached him, your boyfriend's heterochromatic eyes sparkled with admiration; he thought you were late just to get ready like that just for him;

- Well, his intention when he called you was to fuck you hard in the forest, to get you addicted to his cock, but seeing you dressed like that made him hard right away;

- You kind of won't feel your legs for a week anymore;

Sunny day Jack

- Jack was wondering why you were taking so long in the room;

- He was intrigued in what you were doing, as this ghost was curious of what your Sunshine was doing, so he opened the door to your room;

- When he was going to ask how you were, he looked at you, you were wearing strange clothes, wearing a pink wig and contact lenses of the same color, as well as a well-made makeup over your face, making you look very effeminate;

- You jumped when he saw you cosplaying Astolfo from Fate: Apocrypha;

- Well, you decided to step into the role of the character, just to tease Jack for breaking into your room;

"Oh! So you are my master?! Then I will introduce myself! For it is very important to speak my real name! So, my name is Astolfo! One of the twelve paladins of Charles Magno! It's a pleasure" you played the role of getting all excited, quickly approaching the blue-haired man.

" What about yours?" You had a huge smile on your face, you had really gotten into character, Jack was impressed, even though he didn't understand the reference he quite liked it, especially the master part.

- Jack picks you up and puts you on the bed, he would give you lots of love, because as you said, he was your master;

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radiance1 · 1 year ago

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I’ve been thinking about this a lot and basically Danny is Beelzebub from Hellva boss with his own casino performs and the entrance defies reality and all his ghost rouges come in and go as they please and some humans and or mortals stumble in and think it’s just some place where metas party their fucking asses off which wouldn’t be that bad if this wasn’t FUCKING GOTHAM. Danny doesn’t know how they got in Gotham but they just want to party but unfortunately for him the bats hear a rumor some meta trafficking ring has been planning a big raid on a certain casino that’s new ish and they have to stop it so they go in disguise and they get to witness Danny and his rouges beat the every loving snot out of some traffickers

maybe Danny is a clone, maybes he’s reincarnated, maybe he lost a bet, maybe he moved to Gotham for fun, maybe he got tossed across the universe into Gotham

who knows certainly not Danny

Hmm.

I have zero clue if I want Danny to look somewhat like Beelzebub or not, but we won't be dwelling on that right now.

How Danny got to Gotham? I got zero blood clue, but he's there and is about to party.

Maybe this could even be set after TUE bad ending, where the explosion wasn't reversed, and he parties to forget the pain and just focus on the good vibes. Maybe stops using his human form, using his ghost form more and it subtly changing without him noticing into a different form or something due to his habits.

Maybe that some of his ghost form's new features leak over to his human form.

Anyways.

Maybe the casino isn't even in Gotham, like physically. Instead, it's the doors leading into the casino that're in Gotham City, and stepping through him just yoinks them into Danny's Dimension and into his casino.

So, Danny's casino is located smack dab in his own dimension, but somehow the doors pop up in Gotham for whatever reason and a few residents stumble through and see Danny and his rogues (who didn't want to kick a pup while he's down and indulges him) partying up to the high heavens and the lowest hells.

You could even say that, like Beelzebub, Danny is eating up all of the good vibes that comes from other people while partying. How and why does Danny own a casino?

Vlad.

Vlad is indulging him because they both lost something that day, and then Danny was placed into his care, and they were both two disturbed to really continue their entire good vs evil thing and they kinda just, chilled out with each other. Danny asks for a casino one day on a whim, Vlad indulges him, then Danny starts partying up to get away from his own grief while Vlad buries himself in work to avoid his.

So, when the meta trafficking ring tries to capture everyone at the casino and the bats are there to stop them. Every rogue there silently agree to beat them up because one, they have dignity as ghosts and can't just let themselves be captured by humans.

Two, this is the playground of Danny and one of the few things people unanimously agree to never fight in (one of the others is the Christmas truce).

Three, this place is also owned by Vlad Masters. If the man is anything like how he was before the whole kicked pup thing (everyone thinks this applies to both Danny and Vlad) then they don't really want to tick him off and they're basically doing these humans a favor anyways.

Anything they could do to them physically; Vlad could do worse to them in the human world.

The batfamily sees this, and decides that nobody here actually needs their help and can take care of themselves. But also, given the track record of metas becoming rogues in this city, they can't just leave it alone either.

They would make a file about them at the most for the case they decide to run rampant through the city. But they'll leave them alone for the most part.

(Danny doesn't know who or what Batman is, as he doesn't exist in their dimension, yes even the comics don't exist. Neither does the batfamily know Danny Phantom, because he doesn't exist in their universe either.)

#dc x dp #dp x dc #dpxdc #dp x dc crossover #dcxdp #dc x dp crossover #Danny and Vlad: loses the people they love all at once #Ghosts: They're in their kicked pup arc #Should Danny resemble Beelzebub in some way?#I have zero clue

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septiccoffeefreak · 24 days ago

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...Maybe that pick hits a little too close to home.

I'll be explaining this under the cut for people who don't know anything about this movie

Firstly, this comic was inspired by the fact that Jack actually has stated himself that he's seen and loved this movie, thought it was really good, etc. and that he and Tommy meet up to watch movies all the time.

But the movie itself.

Both of them are closeted and have relationships with girls, but secretly love each other and get jealous of each other's girlfriends. The younger guy, our protagonist, even like. Sneaks into the older guy's room and smells some of his clothes. He's smitten. And the other guy is too but because we don't see his pov we don't have confirmation of that until later.

Call Me By Your Name Is a famous gay romance film about a guy who's JUST reached adulthood (in Italy it's at 17 and not 18, so he's 17) who meets this much older man on a trip with his family, and they fall in love. I'll just be using their ages and not their names or other descriptors so that you don't have to keep track of who's who and what traits go together.

Throughout the film gay relationships are treated as very hush hush and there's a lot of internalized homophobia and pressure to not be out as gay.

Anyway he confesses his feelings and the older guy gets sort of shy and jumpy about it and tells him they can't talk about things like that because. Homophobia.

Later, when they're alone in a secluded place, they kiss. The older guy gets nervous about the idea of taking things further because of internalized homophobia, so things get awkward and they don't talk for a few days.

Younger guy comes back from a date with his girlfriend like "fuck this" and leaves a note for the older guy to try and end their silence, and gets a note BACK like "meet me at midnight" so they DO meet up and they are gay and in love and they have sex. On screen sex. And they establish this thing where they call each other by each other's names. And then in the morning the protagonist feels sort of frustrated and conflicted by the whole thing and masturbates with a peach which is a weird scene but ok I guess, and then the older guy walks in on him and the younger guy is like "This fucking sucks because I love you, but we can't be together and I have to go home soon because there's only a little bit of time left in our trip. I wish we had more time together." and cries, which, fair, and they comfort each other.

The younger guy's girlfriend is like "hey I know you're gay. I've decided it's chill. Go savour what you can."

They try to stick together the rest of the trip, and the parents of the younger guy- who Know™️- are like "heyyy why don't you two go down alone to this cool romantic city and rent a hotel hint hint" so they spend three days being in love and sweet before they have to part. The dad is like "son the love you had with that guy was so strong I'm actually jealous I never got to experience a love that intense before."

Then timeskip. The older guy is now getting married to a woman, but at the engagement announcement he and the younger guy find each other. They call each other by each other's names, like before, and basically are just like "I remember everything." And sentimental for a minute. But again, homophobia ruins everything, so they part and the protagonist sits by the fire contemplating and being mournful about not being able to be with him. End of movie.

Anyway I think watching "two closeted men with an age gap are in love, clingy, and pining the movie: featuring sex scenes" with your friend who you flirt with and have a strange connection to, and who is also younger than you, and also one of you is bicurious and the other one is Straight* - *has been attracted to men before but decided it's not enough to feel relevant to your identity because you've never pursued anyone. Which is valid btw use whatever labels you want forever. , and this friend also outright said he thinks you're hot and that he's jacked off to you before, and you are fiercely protective and fond of this friend and feel a strong bond with him and will do anything he asks you to no matter how dumb or a waste of money, and also he JUST broke up with his girlfriend? Might be a very interesting experience.

#my art #my artwork #septicinnit #original posts

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mostlysignssomeportents · 7 months ago

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Mirion Malle’s “So Long Sad Love”

On July 14, I'm giving the closing keynote for the fifteenth HACKERS ON PLANET EARTH, in QUEENS, NY. Happy Bastille Day! On July 20, I'm appearing in CHICAGO at Exile in Bookville.

In Mirion Malle's So Long Sad Love, a graphic novel from Drawn and Quarterly, we get an all-too-real mystery story: when do you trust the whisper network that carries the fragmentary, elliptical word of shitty men?

https://drawnandquarterly.com/books/so-long-sad-love/

Cleo is a French comics creator who's moved to Montreal, in part to be with Charles, a Quebecois creator who helps her find a place in the city's tight-knit artistic scene. The relationship feels like a good one, with the normal ups and downs, but then Cleo travels to a festival, where she meets Farah, a vivacious and talented fellow artist. They're getting along great…until Farah discovers who Cleo's boyfriend is. Though Farah doesn't say anything, she is visibly flustered and makes her excuses before hurriedly departing.

This kicks off Cleo's hunt for the truth about her boyfriend, a hunt that is complicated by the fact that she's so far from home, that her friends are largely his friends, that he flies off the handle every time she raises the matter, and by her love for him.

There's a term for men like Charles: a "missing stair." "Missing stair" is a metaphor for someone in a social circle who presents some kind of persistent risk to the people around them, who is accommodated rather than confronted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_stair

The metaphor goes like this: you're at a party and every time someone asks where the bathroom is, another partygoer directs them to the upper floor and warns them that one of the stairs is missing, and if they don't avoid that tread, they will fall through and be gravely injured. In this metaphor, a whole community of people have tacitly decided to simply accept the risk that someone who is forgetful or new to the scene will fall through the stair – no one has come forward to just fix that stair.

The origins of this term are in BDSM circles, and the canonical "missing stair" is a sexual predator, but from the outset, it's referred to all kinds of people with failings that present some source of frustration or unhappiness to those around them, from shouters to bigots to just someone who won't help do the dishes after a dinner party:

https://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html

We all know a few missing stairs, and anyone who's got even a little self-reflexivity must wonder from time to time if they're not also a missing stair, at least to some people in their lives. After all, friendship always entails some accommodation, and doubly so love – as Dan Savage is fond of saying, "There is no person who is 'The One' for you – the best you can hope for is the '0.6' that you can round up to 'The One,' with a lot of work."

And at least some missing stairs aren't born – they're made. Everyone screws up, everyone's got some bad habits, everyone's got some blind spots about what others expect of them and how others perceive us. When the people around us make bad calls about whether to let us skate on our faults and when to confront us, those faults fester and multiply and calcify. This is compounded in long-tenured relationships that begin in our youth, when we are still figuring out our boundaries – the people who we give a pass to when we're young and naive can become a fixture in our lives despite characteristics that, as adults, we wouldn't tolerate in someone who is new to our social scene.

To make all this even more complicated, there's the role that power plays in all this. Many missing stairs are keenly attuned to power dynamics and present a different face to people who have some authority – whether formal or tacit – to sanction them. This is why so many of the outings of #MeToo predators provoked mystified men to say, "Gosh, they never acted that way around me – I had no idea."

These men aren't necessarily clueless. There's a predator who once traveled in my circles, and when he was outed, it wasn't just men who were shocked. My professional and personal life includes a large cohort of socially and professionally powerful women to whom this "missing stair" presented an impeccable face on every occasion. None of the people this guy looked up to ever witnessed his behavior firsthand, and for complicated reasons, none of the lower status (younger, less experienced, and not exclusively female) people whom he preyed upon came to us.

Which brings me back to Cleo and Charles, and the mystery of what Charles did to Farah in art school, many years before. The people in Charles's circle have an explanation: Farah was Charles's first heavy crush, and he courted her in ways that crossed the line into harassment. But – according to Charles's friends – this was a temporary condition that Charles outgrew, and it was only later, when Charles was in a healthier relationship with someone who reciprocated his affections, that Farah retaliated by attacking him to their small art-school circle.

This is just plausible enough – Charles was young, still figuring stuff out, he made a misstep – that Cleo is able to console herself with it. But as Charles grows more irritable and belittling of her, and as Cleo's friends gently encourage her to dig further rather than burying her lingering doubts, a much uglier truth comes into view.

Malle handles this all so deftly, showing how Cleo and her friends all play archetypal roles in the recurrent missing stair dynamic. It's a beautifully told story, full of charm and character, but it's also a kind of forensic re-enactment of a disaster, told from an intermediate distance that's close enough to the action that we can see the looming crisis, but also understand why the people in its midst are steering straight into it.

This transitions into a third act where Cleo leaves Montreal and finds herself in the midst a very different social dynamic of people who have figured out a far healthier way to manage their interpersonal problems. This short conclusion is powerfully satisfying, showing how it's possible to live without missing stairs and without the immediate expulsion of anyone who has a "problematic" moment.

The missing stair phenomenon would be so much easier to deal with if every missing stair started out as an irredeemable monster. We could fix all those stairs and declare ourselves done. But – as Malle illustrates – there's a reason it's so hard to fix those missing stairs. Every good friendship has some give and take – but every missing stair takes too much. Knowing the difference is a skill you learn through hard experience, not one you're born with. Learning when to call someone out, and when to call them in, is a hard curriculum – and it's even harder to know when to keep trying to help the people in your life be better selves, and when to protect the other people in your life from their worst selves.

Malle's book is packed with subtlety and depth, romance and heartbreak, subtext that carries through the dialog (in marvelous translation from the original French by Aleshia Jensen) and the body language in Malle's striking artwork.

Support me this summer on the Clarion Write-A-Thon and help raise money for the Clarion Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers' Workshop!

If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this post to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

https://pluralistic.net/2024/06/25/missing-stair/#the-fog-of-love

#pluralistic #romance #comics #bandes desinees #books #reviews #lgbtq #graphic novels #gift guide #art #miron malle #missing step #metoo #gender

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superman86to99 · 2 months ago

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Superman: The Man of Steel #37 (September 1994)

Zero Hour is here, and so is Batman! And Batman, and Batman, and Batman, and, yes, even Batman! Clark Kent and Lois Lane are strolling down beautiful, half-destroyed Metropolis when Clark sees a Morse code message coming from a rooftop. It turns out to be Batman, who's looking rather... Neal Adams-ish. Superman should have realized something was off when Batman called him "old friend," even though these two have only been able to stand each other for (in DCU time) about a year at most.

Not only does Batman not recognize Superman's post-resurrection mullet hippie hair, but he seems confused when Superman mentions that little incident where he had his back broken by a 'roided-out wrestler, which suggests that he hasn't experienced the '90s at all. If Superman was truly Batman's friend, he'd rush him to the nearest arcade to play Super Street Fighter II Turbo right away.

Anyway, Batman dropped by Metropolis to warn Superman that there's some sort of "time anomaly" going on that's making "people from the past" show up in the present. You don't say.

Meanwhile, the big "concert to rebuild Metropolis" that's been teased in recent issues is about to get started. The organizer, Lois Lane's douchey ponytail-wearing ex-boyfriend Jeb Friedman, is jumped by some guys who look a whole lot like the Mutant gang from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, who hate Jeb because they don't want Metropolis to be rebuilt (as opposed to any of the other 99,999 valid reasons for hating Jeb). Tragically, Jeb's life is saved by the grittiest, most violent Batman of all: yes, Ben Affleck.

(Just kidding. I know that's actually Adam West.)

After saving Jeb, this Batman runs into Superman and says he came to warn him about the time anomalies, but it's pretty obvious he already knew about them, considering he's hanging out with two separate Batmen and all. The Batmen barely have any time to get acquainted before a third Batman drops by, this one looking like he came straight from 1939's Detective Comics #27. Oh, and then the Neal Adams Batman suddenly turns into a different, much more pointy-eared Batman in the middle of a sentence.

(The DC wiki claims it's Kelley Jones Batman, but our resident art expert Don Sparrow says it could be Marshall Rogers Batman.)

Since Superman's all-purpose science guy isn't in his lab right now, he decides to bring the Batmen to the benefit concert in case the Mutants cause any more trouble -- especially since the music is so loud, it's "interfering with [Superman's] super-hearing." We just discovered another Superman vulnerability aside from Kryptonite and magic: '90s death metal.

As predicted, the Mutants do strike during the concert, and somehow even bring a whole tank into it (today, you can't even bring in a water bottle). Luckily, the music was so loud that most of the crowd didn't even notice it took one Superman, three Batmen, and some anti-tank explosives courtesy of DKR Batman to save them.

Superman finally finds Professor Hamilton, who was at the concert with some girlfriends, and asks him look into the mystery of the many Batmen. Hamilton employs his usual approach to scientific investigation: just put people inside a big glass ball (the isolation chamber first seen in Adventures #458).

Hamilton's instruments determine that "something very odd is happening to time," which Superman probably could have figured out without the need of a big glass ball -- especially since the Batmen are now rapidly turning into other Batmen and fading out of existence. Hamilton's conclusion is that Superman should probably look up the real Batman from this timeline. Just then, Superman hears a high-pitched noise: it's that precise Batman, who just arrived in Metropolis and used a gizmo to call his attention.

'90s Batman says the same thing as the others: weird time-related things are happening in Gotham... and Metropolis too, as is pretty clear by now. Just then, Metron of the New Gods shows up in his funky time-and-space-traveling chair to say that this isn't a mere "time anomaly" -- it's a CRISIS™!

TO BE CONTINUED IN ZERO HOUR!

Plotline-Watch:

That last scene is also seen in Batman #511 (in part) and Zero Hour #4 (in full). By the way, I'm pretty sure this is the first time Superman and Batman have met since the former came back to life and the latter got his back fixed. It's too bad they didn't update Batman's looks in some way when he returned, like maybe with a mullet showing through his cowl, Batgirl-style. In fact, they should give all DC heroes mullets when they come back from death/paralysis.

All through the issue, we see a Kryptonian ship (like Superman's birth matrix, but bigger) traveling through space, arriving on Earth, landing on Smallville, and, finally, its occupants getting off and going up to the Kent farm. They turn out to be Jor-El and Lara... and they think Pa Kent is their son. Maybe Superman's human parents aren't the only ones who need glasses.

The most dramatic part of the concert is when one of the Mutants shoots at the headlining artist, Jimmy Olsen's old friend Babe, and we see the bullet go through her chest. Then she dramatically turns into a giant bat and spooks her assailant while the audience cheers, convinced that these are just really good stage tricks. Later, Jimmy visits Babe backstage and congratulates her on the effects. She's like "yes... effects." (As a reminder, the last time we saw her, two years ago, she was bitten by a vampire.)

It's obscured by the big glass ball in the panel up there, but Professor Hamilton debuts his hydraulic robot arm in this issue, having lost his flesh and blood one in Adventures #514. Incidentally, the "girlfriends" of Hamilton's I mentioned before are Case, the white-haired girl he met in that Adventures issue, and her Riot Grrrl bandmates, who invite Ham to sit with them near the stage. I'm surprised he didn't lose his other arm in the mosh pits.

Keith the Unlucky Orphan attends the concert with his new friend Alice White and her husband, Perry, but Keith wanders off when he thinks he sees his long-gone mom in the crowd. That's the last we see of Keith in this issue, so it's easy to get the impression that he got ran over by the tank or something. (At least we learn that Lucan, that other kid from last issue, did find his mom.)

At the end of the issue, Jeb confirms his scumbag status by bragging to Lois that Clark has never done anything as "awesome" as organizing a concert with extremely lax security, and then trying to get Lois to come to Paris with him. Lois is surprisingly patient with him and even gives him a kiss on the cheek. He urges her to get married quick because "that's the only thing that will keep me from coming back," which is the best argument for the Clark/Lois marriage I've seen.

Regarding the scene above, notorious Jeb-hater Don Sparrow says: "Lois' dodge on what’s so great about Kent might read to us like she’s talking about him being Superman, but--forgive me--from Jeb’s point of view, it just sounds like she’s talking about his dick." Okay, so it wasn't just me.

Shout Outs-Watch:

Bat-shout outs to our Bat- I mean Super-supporters, Aaron, Chris “Ace” Hendrix, britneyspearsatemyshorts, Patrick D. Ryall, Bheki Latha, Mark Syp, Ryan Bush, Raphael Fischer, Kit, Sam, Dave Shevlin, and Dave Blosser! We're currently giving away some original Maxima art to one supporter and have another cool art poll/giveaway coming up! Join them (and get extra non-continuity articles, plus the giveaways) via Patreon or our newsletter’s “pay what you want” mode!

The great Don Sparrow had a LOT to say about the art in this issue this issue, starting with trying to identify all the Batmen on the cover, so buckle up and keep reading:

Art-Watch (by @donsparrow):

We start with the cover, and it’s an instant classic, with Jon Bogdanove showing off by emulating the art styles of over a dozen Batman artists from comics history, while still maintaining his own personal style in the middle of all of it. While I’m sure I’m wrong about a few, here’s as many as I could identify, starting counter-clockwise from top left:

1. Moebius? It kind of looks like the helmeted version of Batman from the final fight with Superman, but they already have a Frank Miller here. There’s definitely something European about this rendering, though, so I’m going with Moebius. [Max: This one looks elderly to me... is there an Elseworlds or something about a geriatric Batman?]

2. Frank Miller

3. Neal Adams

4. Bruce Timm

5. Dick Sprang

6. Gil Kane (with the rendering looking like Murphy Anderson's gentle feathered inks)

7. Kelley Jones

8. Michael Kaluta? These backwards facing ones are tricky, because I’m not totally sure they’re supposed to be representative of any artist, but those distinct cape folds look like Kaluta to me.

9. Michael Golden? Again, not sure it’s supposed to be anyone in particular, but Golden was a giant for Batman covers at a certain point, and favoured the long eared look.

10. Irv Novick

11. Lewis Wilson (not an artist, but the actor from the low-rent serials of the 40s)

12. Carmine Infantino—the lips are unmistakable, and again, the feathering looks like Murphy Anderson.

13. Jim Aparo

14. Bernie Wrightson—either that or Kelley Jones again, but the face looks a little more natural, which makes me think Wrightson.

15. Jerry Robinson

16. Walt Simonson? Wasn’t sure about this one, but the cape folds looked like his geometric linework

17. Bob Kane

What do you think? Any mistakes I have here? Please let me know!

Inside the story, we’re greeted almost immediately by the off-putting sight of Jeb Friedman, one of my least liked characters in all of Superman-dom. Then again—we’re supposed to not like him, so the creative team is doing a bang-up job. I will say, Jeb’s noxiousness is cut in half when Clark also has a ponytail, which at one time I think was a design element intended to hint at a Steven Seagal-like irritating personality, before they had to add one to Clark to differentiate between he and Superman. One odd detail—I haven’t seen many tour jackets where the band’s name is hyphenated.

On page three’s almost double page spread, we get our first Batman era, the Neal Adams version of the character, exemplified by the exaggerated hand gestures and warm rim lighting. As the Riot Grrrls try to meet Babe Tanaka, they’re stopped by a very Chris Farley looking roadie/security guard, but the timeline doesn’t work.

Though “Big Dan” bears a striking resemblance to Farley’s security guard character from Black Sheep that movie wouldn’t come out for another two years or so, and the character design doesn’t look enough like Farley’s security character from Wayne’s World 2, so maybe it’s just a generic roadie character. I do love Professor Hamilton’s awkward, hands-off reaction to Case laying a big old, 20-years-his-junior hug on him.

A few pages later we get our first glimpse of both the timeline-lost Dark Knight Returns version of Batman, as well as his Mutant street gang. I love how these pages employ Frank Miller’s caption boxes and tiny square panels. It’s interesting to me that so many artists since DKR have depicted this version of Batman’s costume as brownish gray and black, when, to my eye, it’s a muted navy and gray in the original pages. One of the animated adaptations of this story also went with the black and warm gray motif, which has always confused me—Lynn Varley is certainly a gifted enough painter to represent blacks and grays without the comic book trick of shading them with blue (like Superman’s hair, for instance) so that interpretations since have deviated from navy and gray perplexes me a little. When you read DKR, what colour did you think his uniform was? [Max: I'm gonna go with grey. The brown-ish always baffled me.] At any rate, we lose Bogdanove’s style almost completely as the figures and even the scratchy finishes perfectly recall Miller and Klaus Janson.

Only a page or two later we get another Batman, this the slight, purple gloved version from 1939, and then on the next page, the Neal Adams Batman appears to give way to the Marshall Rogers version (or at least a different long-eared interpretation of the character). On page 11, we have a stunning image of Superman overlooking three different Batmen on their personal gargoyles, and the one in the middle seems soooo familiar to me, but I can’t place it, perfectly. It could just be the Rogers Batman again, but the cape folds and body gesture looks like it could be referencing a pin-up from Michael Kaluta, Sandy Plunkett, or Michael Golden. Any insights? Certainly, as the story progresses, this version of Batman has the flowing geometric cape Rogers’ drew. Babe Tanaka playing right through the assassination attempt is a great visual, though it’s jarring to see her Vampirella-meets-Cher stage costume in a code book.

Throughout the whole issue there’s some really cool zip-a-tone effects, like when Superman descends to the first two Batmen, in a DKR cover callback.

Later as those same Batmen jump into action, the ben day dots lend a sense of depth, and finally the effect in the background during Babe’s supernatural transformation are very well used.

Once the Batmen hit Professor Hamilton’s lab, the transformations come and go quickly, as the Bob Kane Batman gives way to what appears to be the Adam West version, then only a panel later the Marshall Rogers Batman switches to the “new look” Batman as imagined by Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson. Just as quickly, the grim n’ gritty DKR Batman is subbed out for the grinning n’ gleeful Dick Sprang version of the character. Finally, as the alternate timeline Batmen disappear, Superman makes his way to Gotham, and it’s very cool that even with Bogdanove’s distinct style, we know this is the modern Batman. I love that during this era they went back to the Cord Batmobile in Batman comics, but it’s extra appropriate here, where there’s already a bunch of anachronisms running around.

As an art fan, this issue was a real treat, but in terms of plot, there wasn’t much—just a series of different Batman costumes running in and saying “something weird is happening!”. It reminded me of the monologue when my fellow 5’4” heartthrob Michael J. Fox hosted SNL, and the different Michael J. Foxes kept running in to warn him that his monologue was about to bomb. But, it does mean we’re in the era of Zero Hour, at last, which is one of my favourite crossovers of all time, in no small part because of the story’s deep connection to the Superman books, from the writer/art team, to the Linear Men’s important role.

SPEEDING BULLETS:

There’s perhaps something funny about the Neal Adams Batman accusing Superman of “going hippie” when the Neal Adams version of the character was most famously written by self-proclaimed hippie, Dennis O’Neil.

It does my heart good to see that Jimmy indeed also doesn’t care for Jeb Friedman. But between my hatred for Jeb, and Max’s dislike of Jimmy, does the disdain cancel itself out? I can’t figure the math on this. [Max: I also hate Jeb, so I think the hate is multiplied and becomes uber-hate.]

Jimmy also seems unafraid to “be that guy” wearing the shirt of the band to the concert of the band. I actually think this is kind of a dumb rule, myself, so you go Jimmy.

Speaking of resentment, my main issue with Ron Troupe, apart from his fashion sense, is that he seems to be a replacement Jimmy, sidelining him in the cub reporter role (and eventually in the romance department as well, though we’re not there yet). But it’s nice seeing them team-up. Maybe they’re only competitors in my mind.

I like that the Dark Knight version of Batman also includes his wry commentary, about the sounds of violence drawing Superman, and the slight diss that the mullet has impaired Superman’s perfection.

Little Keith having a nice picnic day with the Whites does my heart good, and I do like the foreshadowing with Keith feeling like spending time with them is “almost like having a family” again.

I do like that pretty much all the Batmen who show up are too square to enjoy Shredding Metal’s music. It does make me curious what it sounds like. I imagine her vocals sounding like Cassandra Wong from Wayne’s World, but the sound might be heavier and screechier than Crucial Taunt. [Max: For some reason, I imagine it as Yoko Ono singing System of Down.]

(Controversial opinion coming up!) I kinda like that Superman stops the DKR Batman from taking out the tank, a nice echo of the Dark Knight Returns storyline, where Superman was the real hero of the story (had he not stopped that nuke, it wouldn’t matter how many Mutant Leaders Batman beat at mud-wrestling).

So who did Babe feed on that Mutant quickly after she got off stage? I’ll admit, I wouldn’t have minded if it was Rob, Don or one of the other mutants out to kill her.

I get that Jeb is supposed to be an Henri-from-Cheers “I’m going to steal your girlfriend” like foil for Clark, but his line-crossing pursuit of Lois isn’t cute—or a relationship that Lois should indulge, even as friends.

The Vampirella connection is made even more clear with the zoom-in on Babe’s eyes, with pupils bearing a bat that looks a whole heckuva lot like the logo on Vampirella’s costume (which you can google yourself, as I’m struggling to find even a single worksafe image of the lone daughter of Drakulon). The idea that she’s bummed about being a vampire, as exemplified her her teary eyes, is a novel twist.

It’s amusing that Jor-El and Lara are so unfamiliar with their son that they mistake him for Kal-El’s septuagenarian adoptive father on that last page.

It’s fun to see all these different interpretations of Batman, but if this story were released today, there would be even MORE iconic incarnations that didn’t yet exist in 1994! Batman as drawn by Jim Lee, Tim Sale, Frank Quitely, Alex Ross, Gary Frank, Francesco Francavilla, etc. were all still ahead of us! I was glad to see Jim Aparo referenced on the cover, but my other personal favourite Batman artist, Norm Breyfogle, was left off this issue, perhaps because he was too recent to be considered “classic” in 1994.

With all the Batman artists referenced in this issue, we ask you: which Batman artist era costume would you like to see me sketch? Sound off in the comments, or vote in our poll… [Max: Poll coming soon, but Bat-suggestions are welcome!]

Missed an issue? Looking for an old storyline? Check out our new chronological issue index!

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hellomystraightlacedfriend · 9 months ago

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The Osborns' 'Weird' Relationship: An Analysis

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #146 - Gerry Conway/Sal Buscema ◇

Okay, so I know it was awhile ago that I said I might write an analysis of some of the emotional dysfunctional aspects of 616 Norman and Harry Osborn’s relationship, but I really struggled with the format and how I was going to present this.

One thing that I ended up having to do was throw out any speculation on the writers' intent. With comics, you have so many different writers - especially with a long ongoing, popular series like Spider-Man - that I decided to focus a lot more on the patterns I was picking up when I was reading.

But before I go any further:

CW: discussions of child abuse, mental illness, and suicidal ideation

Disclaimer: In this analysis, I am trying to provide an explanation for why Norman might behave the way he does. However, this explanation of Norman’s abuse is not meant to be a justification of his behaviour.

Also, before we start, you are absolutely allowed to disagree with this analysis! Every reader sees/interprets things a little differently, but I've seen other people pick up on the Osborns' relationship being well, strange, so I decided to examine that a little closer.

There were certain things I kept noticing in Norman and Harry's relationship that I found abnormal (you know, apart from Norman's extensive verbal abuse). Things like: Harry's really intense and misplaced loyalty to his father (that interfers with his other relationships.) The way in which Harry feels responsible for his father. The way Harry doesn’t have a strong identity outside of his father, and how his father doesn't allow (or think Harry needs) any emotional privacy. Also, just some of the ways Norman talks to his son don’t make it feel like a normal parent-child relationship.

In particular in this analysis, I did want to talk about emotional incest and enmeshment, which I am going to define now.

The psychological definition of emotional (or covert) incest is when a parent relies on their child for emotional support that they should be getting from another adult. They treat their child like a friend or partner, instead of well, a child.

And

An enmeshed family is one where there is a lack of boundaries, and often, the child isn't allowed to have an individual identity.

I think we see a lot of the after affects of this kind of emotional abuse in Harry as an adult, and while we don't see a whole lot of Harry and Norman's relationship dynamic when Harry is growing up, I do want to start from there, using what flash backs and other information we have.

Actually to give some background on why this kind of abuse occurred, I will go back a bit further than that and talk briefly about Norman’s childhood and his relationship with Harry’s mother.

Norman definitely didn't have a great childhood. His father was a bitter and abusive alcoholic who blamed all of his problems on other people, including his son. And while Norman's mother wasn't abusive towards him, she did fail to protect him. This betrayal from an early age from both his parents would have been a huge contributer to Norman's extensive trust issues (and his drive to be in control so he's not hurt again.)

Norman didn't get the emotional support and attention he needed while growing up, so that's really what he was seeking as a young adult, and he found it in Emily Lyman aka Harry's mother.

Now while I don’t think that Norman and Emily's relationship was perfect like he presents it to be, I do think from his point-of-view this was a great time in his life. He was finally out from under his father's thumb. This beautiful woman believed in him. They had their whole lives ahead of them. The possibilities were endless, and then - she died.

Or faked her death and left him because he was so controlling.

Either way, she was gone, and he still a young man was left to go on as a single father.

Interestingly, Norman both blames Harry for Emily's death and compares him to her. Much later in his life, when talking to Harry's grave, Norman says that he tried to be fair to Harry 'even though you were so much like your mother in so many ways.' In this scene, Norman is angry at Harry for dying and thus 'abandoning' him to be alone. And I think that's what Norman felt when Emily died too, this deep sense of abandonment.

◇ Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin #1 - Roger Stern/Ron Frenz | Peter Parker: Spider-Man #44 - Paul Jenkins/Humberto Ramos ◇

(Later, it's revealed that Harry is not dead. Or maybe he is. I am NOT getting into the whole post-OMD-Harry-is-a-clone mess. For the sake of this analysis, they are the same person. They would have the same memories anyway.)

Now I am going to be piecing some things together and doing a bit of speculating. One thing that always stuck with me is that Harry keeps saying that his and Norman's relationship used to be different, that they used to be 'pals,' and then something changed. While I know a lot of people dismiss this, become Harry is delusional about his father at other points, I do think when Norman became the Green Goblin, there was a shift in their relationship dynamic, and Norman stopped opening up as much to his son.

I still absolutely think Norman was a neglectful and preoccupied father, but I also think that Norman was an emotionally needy person, and once Emily died, Norman (who was most likely extremely depressed and lacking a support system) tried to have Harry meet some of those needs. I say tried to, because Harry was just a little kid, a baby, and he wouldn’t be capable of doing that.

I think a lot about a panel from Spectacular Spider-Man #178 where Harry is talking to his own son Normie Osborn. Normie is a very young child/toddler. While Harry is talking to Normie, and Normie is watching TV, Harry starts hallucinating that his father is in the room. (Both Harry and his father have had psychotic episodes.)

Norman tells Harry that Normie should be listening to Harry, and when Harry says that Normie is just 'a little guy' and 'doesn't really understand all this,' the Norman Sr. hallucination becomes angry and says that Harry was just the same. That Harry was lost in his own head when he was young, and couldn’t hear when Norman talked to him.

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #178 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema ◇

It's interesting the way Norman and Harry differ here. Harry wants his son Normie to be able to enjoy these early years and have this chance to be carefree. Whereas Norman doesn't seem to really understand the concept of childhood and childhood innocence.

I also find it interesting (because I'm obsessed with word choice) that both Norman and Harry use 'pals' to describe their relationship.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #39 & #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. ◇

And just in general, Norman and Harry's relationship doesn't seem to fall into the typical parent-child relationship - where the parent takes care of the child and meets the child's emotional needs. Instead, it's more complicated and codependent.

Norman and Harry both view Norman as Harry’s provider and protector. Norman is abusive towards Harry, but he does show deep concern about Harry's safety and worries about what would happen if he (Norman) suddenly died - because he's afraid Harry wouldn't be able to fend for himself.

On the other hand, Norman really doesn't give Harry any tools to become independent or encourage a separate identity, and I think part of that is because subconsciously - as much as he keeps saying he wants Harry to be strong - Norman actually wants Harry to be dependent on him.

Like on one level Norman does want Harry to be strong and be able to think for himself, so that he can take over the company and continue the Osborn legacy (and he is angry at Harry and verbally punishes him for not living up to this). But on a more personal - and like I said before subconscious - level, I do think that Norman wants Harry to have to rely on him. Because Norman doesn't want Harry to be able to leave him. Because he doesn't want to be alone.

And that's the thing, I do think that Norman is also dependent on Harry.

Harry is the nurturer to his father's protector and provider. He cares for and worries about his father a lot, and as much as Norman does not like to be seen as weak, there are quite a few moments where we do see Norman be vulnerable around his son.

Why this happened is probably largely circumstantial. Norman is a very paranoid man, who constantly fears betrayal from those around him. Even with the other adults in Norman's life who he is 'close' to - like J Jonah Jameson and George Stacy, he is not open. He does not trust them. He thinks that people are conspiring against him. However, he doesn't see his young son as a threat, as someone who could turn against him and hurt him. And he pulls Harry into this emotional isolation with him by telling his son not to trust anyone but his family (anyone but Norman.)

◇Amazing Spider-Man #62 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #47 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #67 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Spectacular Spider-Man #200 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema◇

That puts Harry in a very difficult position, because he has deal with these adult concerns at such a young age, and he also can't fully open up to anyone else. This strain, along with Norman's exacting standards and scathing criticism, puts a lot of pressure of Harry.

However, Harry is used to being his father's confidant, and he becomes extremely anxious if his father shuts him out - or worse if he doesn't know where his father is. In a way, as much as Harry says that his father is strong and great, I think (at some level) Harry must also see his father as (emotionally) fragile.

This is especially noticeable in Amazing Spider-Man #121, where Harry is supposed to be resting because he has just overdosed, but he can't because he's so worried about how his father will react to possible financial ruin. He goes to him, tells his father that he doesn't need to worry about him, that he can take care of himself, that he's just worried about his father. He then proceeds to collapse in Norman's arms because he is not well.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #61 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr., Don Heck || Amazing Spider-Man #63 - Stan Lee/Don Heck, John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane ◇

This collapse leads Norman to want to rid Peter Parker/Spider-Man from his life (by killing Peter), because he falsely blames Peter for Harry's drug overdose and also the collapse of Osborn Indistries.

Now Peter’s involvement in the Osborns' personal lives is interesting. Peter is the first person that Harry really opens up to outside of his father - when Harry breaks down and complains that his father had been very distant in the last few years. When Peter responds with the emotional support Harry had never gotten from Norman, Harry draws Peter further into his life by asking him to be his roommate. Harry’s demeanour toward Peter also becomes similar to his attitude towards his father, submissive and eager to please. (He even calls Peter 'sir' at one point when he's trying to get his attention - an address he uses towards his father.)

Peter, however, is so caught up in being Spider-Man that, like Norman, Peter often neglects his relationship with Harry. This leads Harry to be rather passive-aggressive. At one point, Harry offers to make Peter breakfast, but when he hears Peter locking his stuff up, he becomes insulted that Peter would think he would steal from him and storms off to see Norman instead.

This becomes an ongoing element, Harry being torn between Norman and Peter, and seeking love/support from both of them, but seemingly unable to get it.

Now I want to make it quite clear that Norman and Peter are not equally responsible here. Peter is Harry’s age and has troubles of his own. Norman should be acting as Harry’s father, but he really isn't, not emotionally anyway. He is meeting his son's material needs (to an excess), but he is emotionally neglecting his son while also emotionally burdening him with his own troubles. Plus Norman is constantly verbally berating Harry for failing to live up to his impossible expectations - leaving Harry feeling worthless and extremely depressed.

Harry takes drugs to cope with these negative feelings - first abusing prescription medication and then moving on to street drugs. There is even already a note of passive suicidal ideation here, as when Peter asks him how many pills he's taking, Harry's response is 'What’s the difference? Who counts?' (Amazing Spider-Man #97 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane.)

Now I refuse to believe that Harry doesn't understand that there's a possibility of overdose here: he's a chemistry (and business) major with a father who sells drugs for a living. He knows that it is a possibility. So, while he's not actively seeking to end his life, he also doesn't really seem to care if he lives or dies - as long as he can escape from his pain.

Harry does eventually overdose - and it's an overdose that leads Norman to go after Peter & also Peter’s girlfriend (and Harry's friend) Gwen. Norman blames all of Harry’s friends for his condition, but especially Peter. And Norman blames himself for failing to protect his son from them. He threatens to kill Gwen if Peter doesn't end his own life, and when Peter doesn't comply, Norman goes ahead with his threat - throwing Gwen Stacy off the George Washington Bridge. (Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane.)

Peter (as Spider-Man) goes after Norman in revenge, and Norman ends up dying (albeit by his own glider and not Peter’s hand.) Harry eventually figures out that Peter is Spider-Man, and this leads him to think that his and Peter’s friendship wasn't real, that it was entirely a ruse on Peter’s part. That Peter was just getting close to Harry to close in on his father.

Harry ends up forgetting about Peter Parker’s secret identity after his first attack on Peter though, and so for years the threat of Harry's revenge remains dormant. However, even from 'beyond the grave' (Norman, um, kind of faked his death, but Harry didn’t know that) Norman still had a hold on Harry’s psyche.

One early warning sign of the return of Green Goblin might have been that Harry names his child both after his father and himself (Norman Harold Osborn), keeping their names (and identies) close together. Harry also tells young Normie how special a man his grandfather Norman Osborn was. Then Harry begins to hear his father's voice telling him to revenge his death, to kill Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

Harry goes back and forth on how he sees his father. At times, he is able to see his father as who he really was/is, a dangerous criminal who ruined his own life. However, at other points, he calls Norman 'wonderful' and 'the greatest man this world has ever known.' He claims that his father's spirit is in him fuelling all his efforts, and blames Peter for both Norman's and Gwen's deaths.

Of course, it would be hard for anyone to admit that their father killed one of their closest friends, however, I think with Harry it goes even beyond that. Because Harry doesn't have a solid identity outside of his father, he is unable to fully see himself and his father as two separate people. So, in his head, Harry can't admit that his father killed Gwen, because then he would also have to think that he killed Gwen - something I don't think that Harry can wrap his head around doing. It's easier then to blame someone else - Peter/Spider-Man.

When Harry does finally admit that Norman killed Gwen, he still absolutely thinks (pretty understandibly) that it was Peter who ended Norman's life. Because of this, Harry decides that both he and Peter would be better off dead - and that their deaths would protect their loved ones from further harm.

It is only an outpouring of unconditional love from Peter (something Harry had never really felt before) that sways Harry from ending Peter’s life. He carries Peter out of the building where he had set up a timed bomb, but then seemingly dies himself (from side effects of the serum he'd taken to make himself stronger.)

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Break!

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Okay, this is here because this is getting long, but I don’t want to make it a two-parter, but also sometimes people need to take a break and breathe, you know?

I will also be concentrating more on post One More Day Harry in this section, though referring back to earlier comics as well. I will also be talking more about sex and romantic relationships, and how Harry's focus on his father (and Norman seeing himself as the most important person in Harry’s life) complicates things.

The Dan Slott and Joe Kelly runs leading up to and during Dark Reign were the first Spider-Man comics I read, and these were the issues where I first got to see the Osborns' relationship on page. What really struck me then about the relationship was how Norman talks to Harry more like a separated spouse than his grown child: 'I need you,' 'the world could be ours,' 'come home,' 'your place is here, by my side.'

During this period, Harry is pulling away from his father and trying to be independent, and Norman does not like this at all. He mocks Harry’s business ventures, then bombs Harry’s place of business - almost killing Harry’s then girlfriend Lily Hollister in the process. When Harry goes to confront him, Norman says that girlfriends are replaceable and tries to win Harry back. This, however, does not work, and shortly following this, Harry goes no contact.

Norman will not accept this boundary, however, or any boundary really. He admitted earlier to recording and listening to all of Harry’s therapy sessions, and when Harry won't answer his calls or letters, Norman has people spy on his son and report to him on everything Harry is doing. He then gets himself invited to a wedding that Harry is attending.

This is when he tells Harry that he needs him, something that does visibly affect Harry. Peter steps in between Harry and Norman, and tells Norman 'and that's what therapy's for.'

This scene is interesting because Norman does not like admitting that he needs other people, but also because Peter doesn't consider this (entirely) as a ploy on Norman’s part. He does think that Norman is being honest about 'needing' Harry. He just thinks that the way Norman seeks support from his son is unhealthy.

There is also an 'us'-ness in the Norman-Harry relationship, that is more typical of couples. This along with how Harry is thrust into this nurturing role with Norman, makes him (at times) seem more like his father’s spouse than his son.

And when Harry and Norman do end up cutting ties, Harry even says: 'I was never your son.'

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #573 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr. || Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man #598 || Writer: Joe Kelly/Artists: Paulo Siqueira & Marco Checchetto || Amazing Spider-Man #599 - Joe Kelly/Stephen Segovia, Marco Checchetto, Paulo Siqueira ◇

This relationship with his father - before the eventual break up - does also lead to problems in Harry’s romantic relationships.

Because Norman basically sees himself as the centre of the universe and because he is very possessive of the people around him, Harry grew up internalising this idea that he belongs to his father and that he should prioritise Norman above everything else.

And because of this, Harry does tend to elevate and choose his father over his other relationships. Like how when he was seeing Mary Jane Watson, that relationship ended because Harry wouldn’t unlock the door for her - choosing to be alone with his dead father's costume over being with her. His marriage with Liz also deteriorates as Harry obsesses over avenging his father's death and continuing the Osborn legacy.

Of note, in these moments Harry isn't exactly thinking clearly - there are definitely signs of psychic breaks, with Harry having delusions and hallucinations. Still, a huge part of Harry's psyche is consumed by his father - to the detriment of other aspects of his life.

Even after Harry sees Norman as a bad person (acknowledging that his father was Gwen's killer and knowing for sure that Norman has committed countless other heinous crime), Norman still has a hold over his son. Harry still holds out hope for winning his father's love and approval - and completely dismisses his then girlfriend Lily Hollister's encouragement and support. Instead focusing entirely on his father's criticisms.

◇Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man Family #4 - J.M. DeMatteis/Val Semeiks || Amazing Spider-Man #390 - J.M. DeMatteis/Mark Bagley◇

◇Amazing Spider-Man #126 - Gerry Conway/Ross Andru || Spectacular Spider-Man #189 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema || Amazing Spider-Man #569 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr.◇

Another thing involving Lily Hollister - a rather controversial decision - was to have her be in sexual relationships with both Harry and Norman Osborn (with the timing being so close together that the paternity of her child was called into question.)

I actually don't think it's so surprising that Norman would go after someone his son was seeing. He is very self-centred and delusion enough to think that he could somehow get away with it.

Also, back in Amazing Spider-Man #96, there was this whole thing about Harry bringing along Norman to watch the girl he was then seeing - Mary Jane Watson - dance. It kind of comes across like Harry is trying to impress his father with how hot his 'girlfriend' is, and Norman is quite publicly enchanted by her.

There is something similar in the Raimi adaption where Harry Osborn wants Mary Jane Watson to dress in black (like Harry’s mother/Norman’s wife used to do) because he wants Norman to be impressed by her/find her attractive. Which people have pointed out is kind of weird/creepy.

Also kind of weird is just how much empathy Harry has towards Lily Hollister after she ditches him for his dad. Like yes, I think it's a coercive relationship, and Norman is much more to blame, but I still think most people would be a little more angry in this situation. And what Harry does say to Lily at the start of her and Norman's relationship is very interesting to me:

'He's an amazing man, Lily...I know, and he takes very special care of his "nice things"...until he doesn't.

I hope you see him for what he is before that happens...

Because when Norman Osborn is through with you, no one gets to have you.'

One) because it's really quite strange to call the father you suspect is sleeping with your ex-girlfriend 'an amazing man'

Two) because the way Harry is saying this makes it seems like it applies to both her and him. The 'I know' in particular stands out, because what he seems to be saying is 'I know exactly what you are feeling/going through right now.'

Which given that she is in 'romantic' relationship with his father certainly raises questions.

◇Amazing Spider-Man: Extra! #3 - Joe Kelly/Dale Eaglesham || Amazing Spider-Man #96 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane◇

In any case, I could probably write more, but this post is already more than long enough. I just find the dynamic between Norman & Harry Osborn fascinating because I don’t think it's one we see as often in fiction, and I love reading about dysfunctional families/relationships.

I also find post-OMD Harry really interesting, because I think it's even rarer to see a person, who was in a relationship like this, have to move on, fully cut ties, and figure out how to build a life for themselves without this person (who they had such codendency with.)

#harry osborn #norman osborn #analysis #spider man #peter parker #gwen stacy #liz allan #lily hollister #marvel comics #marvel 616 #my post

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