#we are being manipulated and i dont like it

[mackmp3]

☕how the writers delt with river song

SCREAMING CRYING THROWING UP THEY DID MY GIRL SO DIRTY there are so many. good river song moments. and there are so manythat make me want to tear a strip off steven moffat like every goddamn episode with her they have to make some obnoxious sex joke or some Honey Im Home type shit & i understand this is like. A Moffat Theme & i dont always hate it but goddddd its so reductive like there is so much!!!! that could be done with her character !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is overshadowed by haha what if she was sexy like STOPPPPPPPPPPPP.

like silence in the library was a really good character lead in & i like her!!! as a character !!!! even the overly flirtatiousness unfortunately that would work on me but even aside from that. she is a good character let down but the sheer pull-it-out-of-your-ass writing of her backstory. like?? she could regenerate cos she was conceived in the tardis okay thats really cool much weirder stuff has happened when it comes to tardises & making babies but then WE SeE THIS FOR LIKE. ONE OR TWO EPISODES BEFORE THEYRE LIKE WHOOPS THAT DOESNT WORK ACTUALLY COS SHE'S DEAD UHHH SHE BETTER UHMM IDK SAVE TH E DOCTOR OR SOMETHING WHATEVER> COS HER ENTIRE LIFE HAS TO REVOLVE AROUND HIM. HASHTAG MARRIAGE AMIRITE like even the fact that her entire life was shaped around him isnt a Bad Idea it just feels like no one considered the tragic impies (implications) of this, & simultaneously doing amy so dirty in the process as well like??? she loses baby mels & then discovers she was her (never previously mentioned) childhood friend but then she uhhhh dies & turns into this woman you already know and them????? barely eveer mention it again???? holy shit?????????????????????? amy & river is a freaking horror story but one that the writers seem imcapable of dealing with because sOMEONE is too busy making obnoxious jokes about married life

a lot of thsi is specific to the General Vibes of the eleven era stuff as well which was in general so so weird about women & while its not like twelve or any of teh other doctors are expemt from this eleven is a massive dick to people quite a bit & a lot of this falls on river b/c he is seemingly (iirc i havent seen some of this stuff for a while though it Haunts Me) almost careless? with her? like a sort of 'welllllll she's here now so it was all okay in the end :)' sort of attitude ignoring that she went through A Fuckton Of Stuff before she was even a concious human(mostly??) being

even the husbands of river song is tragically guilty of some of that stuff like. she's seen some wild shit & she should have known it was twelve wayyyyyy way way quicker. like i understand why she didnt for plot reasons but she is in fact very intellegent like. she's allowed to show that. unfortunatley sometimes women cant be smart & have their boobs out at that same time I GUESSSSSSSSS

also the nine & river audios from earlier this year? i really like archipelago i listened to that a couple of times & i thought it was really powerful but AGAIN the writers make river So Fucking Obsessed With Romance like. you'd let it go by that point. nine had literally just proved he's the most aro guy in the universe (good for him) and shes stillllllll flirting at him. which. imo she wouldnt do anymore because, shock horror, she does actually like him as a person & values his company and you would think you would be friends wit hthe guy YOU ARE GONG TO MARRY OR WHATEVER. NOT THAT THEIR MARRIAGE WAS PARTICULARLY ROMANTIC EITHERIM GONNA BE SO REAL. obviously sex is important to her & good for her but yikes. it doesnt need to be mentioned so often.

like its the whole 'inherent tragedy of waiting for a time traveller' stuff which i do eat up every time meeting her in silence of the library & knowong that there is so much more there - VERY COMPELLING !! really good character intro augahagaauuaajaaajahhahahahhhh but nooooo her Entire Fucking Goddman Life has to revolve around being manipulated & The Doctor AS WELL AS !! the completely uncalled for ohhhh im a PSYCHOPATH ( <- unfounded & demonstrably untrue lowkey this is saneism right. thats an ableism there yes? ) thing they alllwaysssss have her say like well!! shes not !! theres 'youre talking about commiting a murder'/'no im not, i'm actually commiting a murder' which i like & is funny & she would say that and then theres teh vauge oooohhhhh im so Freaky & I Have A Gun or whatevr like augsugsaihuahahaouoauauoouauoauoauoauuo

also twelve & river had freaky t4t bi4bi aroallo sex after the end of husbands of river song but no actual dw writer is enlightened enough to see that because they have to flatten her into The Doctors Wife & she would have had a far better dynamic with 12 than with 11 (not that i'm biased) i wish they got more time togetherrrrrrrrrrr also you should listen to the bekdel test (diary of river song audio with missy)

[citygirlyuno305]

I dont think the Hazbin s2 spoilers are more than meets the eye, and fan perception of certain characters is a big reason why theyre dissatisfied

Spoilers under the cut for s2.

I See a lot of people saying Rosie is Roo, Eve is Roo, etc etc. I find it hard to organize my thoughts on this but I’m going to try to.

I hear hoofbeats, and I think horses, not zebras. The spoilers kind of demonstrated that, if you look at Rosie and Alastors interactions in s1, how their teeth look, so on and so forth. So I think Rosie owns Alastor, and his deal has nothing to do with Roo. Rosie simply owns him. I think many people want to believe Roo owns Alastor somehow so they can keep their belief that Alastor is the strongest overlord or sinner, or that hes innately instrumental to the story, but I think his relevance is entirely driven by Rosie’s use of him to get close to Charlie for reasons unknown.

1. First, I dont think Eve or Rosie is Roo. Roo is essentially the equivalent of God for evil, like yin and yang. Ostensibly she materialized at the same time God did and her infiltration was marked by either Lucifer’s pride, or Lilith’s fall, since Lilith is considered the first sinner. This would all predate Eves creation.

Plus, with Lilith becoming the first Sinner, her power did not come out of thin air. I feel like Lilith went to Roo after she was banished from Heaven, particularly because Lucifer was too busy holing himself away in depression to build the Hell that they needed. Lilith had the drive. So if she went to Roo and sought power to effect this idea, Roo cant be Eve. And honestly I dont *want* Eve to be Roo, because it’d be kinda.. lame.

2. So for the same reason I dont think Rosie is Roo. Again, Roo is literally the root of all evil. I think she need not disguise herself as an overlord if she wanted to accomplish anything. And she certainly doesnt need to keep a close eye on Alastor to do that. I think- hear me out- Alastor is in the grand scheme not that important to someone with Roo’s level of power.

3. I think Rosie owns Alastor. Not Roo, not Eve, just Rosie.

I think Rosie herself is much more powerful than we think because we assumed wrongfully that she wasnt all that old/powerful/important of an overlord or that she was timid or docile based on her attitude. From the spoilers we know she held power in hell before alastor even died, to the point that Alastor specifically summoned her to effect this deal in Hell where he’d have that unprecedented raw power as a sinner. I think it also makes sense that hes owned by Rosie in particular because she rules cannibaltown, and he was a cannibal.

so a lot of the people I see saying it doesnt make sense because she’s a weaker overlord/alastor is the strongest overlord, ergo Rosie must be Roo, I feel like theyre trying to rationalize their preconceptions that Alastor is the most powerful. Hes certainly powerful. But Charlie’s initial story in E1 didnt insinuate he was the most powerful. He had an unprecedented amount of raw power for a sinner. Thats because of his deal with Rosie, and it doesnt stretch imagination to assume that Rosie granted him that power because she too holds it.

4. Rosie would have a reason to thwart the Hotel’s efforts.

i think all of the overlords to some extent have a problem with Charlies hotel bc the more sinners that get redeemed, the less souls theyll have, and the less power theyll have as a result. And Rosie is unlike the other overlords in that her tactic of choice is manipulation and deception rather than full on attacks on Charlie’s character or person, so she avoids provocation of an extremely powerful being by getting close. But not too close, because if something goes wrong, the blame falls on Alastor, not her. Its sensible that shes using him as an instrument for that reason. If her plan fails, she can simply rework her strategy and try again with a different instrument.

5. Rosie would also have a reason to get on Charlie’s good side and not directly thwart her Hotel efforts.

Alternatively, everyone has a potential reason to get Charlie on their good side too, since shes arguably the most powerful person in Hell at full potential (full awakening of her power will likely result in more raw power than Lucifer). She’s also naive, and the princess of Pride; theres no better way to manipulate someone who’s prideful than by playing into their pride. But this plays into my last point, shes using Alastor as a tool to get and stay on Charlie’s good side even if her plan fails.

6. When Alastor talked about unclipping his wings in the finale song, i now believe he wasnt referring to power, but instead, Rosie’s control over his actions.

There’s no evidence suggesting Alastor isnt at full power, he actually likely arrived in Hell with the full power he asked for from Rosie, which is why he’s in her debt. He hasnt “paid off his account” because she gave him that power he asked for and hasnt fulfilled her end of the deal, which as of now is unknown.

His whole verse in the finale song is basically “no i didnt die for my friends, thats not how this is gonna end. When I get rid of whats holding me back, I’ll be the one in control.” We all assumed that was about his power being restricted somehow. But I think its merely referring to the fact that he cannot act without Rosie’s okay, and her course of action for him is far different than what he’d prefer- she’s making him contain his rage for a more tactical approach to … whatever it is shes up to.

7. I do not think he’ll kill Rosie because frankly I now dont think he’d even be able to.

Again, it stands to reason Rosie only could give him that power because she wielded it herself. Alastor’s voodoo ties mightve given him more of a boost, but the fact that he went out of his way to make a deal at all with Rosie despite his voodoo ties makes me think he knew it wouldnt be enough upon his entry to hell to make him a sizeable threat.

And to assume Rosie would lose to Alastor despite her now clear advantages is a bit.. overly wishful. Experience, Rosie. Manipulation, Rosie. Knowledge, Rosie. Power, *pretty likely an even draw,* and maybe even goes to Rosie outright considering the souls she owns and the power drawn thereto- and potentially, her ability to withdraw Alastor’s granted power. In actuality, the only way Alastor would be able to beat or kill Rosie would probably be asking Charlie to do it for him as his favor.

Obviously im not omnipotent so idk. But I think people are ignoring some of this stuff in criticizing the sense of the reveal, so I wanted to express it all.

Also 8. I’m VERY FUCKING HAPPY it isnt Lilith who owns Alastor

Because too many fans already make Lilith out to be a complete irredeemable bitch and her owning alastor wouldve empowered that mindset. I could talk for ages about how fans woobify Lucifer and ignore his clearly shitty actions wrt both Charlie AND Lilith in favor of making him look like a great dad and Lilith like a horrid bitch (ever thought about why she, a sinner, would not be in hell/would go into hiding after Lucifer himself signs a deal allowing exterminators to kill ONLY sinners in a routine fashion?..) but thats a whole other topic.

[impending-day]

ive taken the time to assign each limbus company sinner with an attunement from the arcane ascension series! i know theres probably like. zero people who care but i had fun so im gonna share my reasonings

yi sang - illuminator

faust - analyst

don quixote - architect

ryōshū - swordmaster

meursault - shaper

hong lu - illusionist

heathcliff - cloudcaller

ishmael - wayfarer

rodion - mesmer

dante - chronomancer

emil sinclair - purifier

outis - commander

gregor - shapeshifter

full explanations under the cut! :3c

yi sang - illuminator

mana types : water, light

composite mana : peace

faust - analyst

attunement function : creates beneficial passive effects such as resistance to mental corruption and magical attacks

i would think she gets this after the whole n corp thing and cherishes it a whole lot. maybe she is double attuned with an enchanter attunement, making her more likely to pursue the inventor path, but tbh idk if thats necessary, given the illuminator attunement is from caelford [which is known for being technologically advanced].

mana types : umbral, mental

composite mana : secrets

don quixote - architect

attunement function : gathers knowledge relating to sensory information and understanding how things work on an intrinsic level

for faust, it was either a diviner or an analyst attunement. i went with analyst though, since diviners focus on gathering raw intel while analysts do in-depth analysis on the fly more often. and i also like how the compound mana type is 'secrets' mana, i feel like that fits her very well, considering her in limbus and her source novel.

mana types : umbral, perception

composite mana : dreams

attunement function : imbue power into objects that are stronger than permanent enchantments, but only last a few days

thanks to canto vii just dropping, i think this one fits nearly perfectly! maybe she would be double attuned; i can see her also having one combat-focused attunement too. dream mana, temporarily enchanting objects... it all fits so nicely...

ryōshū - swordmaster

mana types : fire, enhancement

composite mana : dawn

attunement function : enhance the abilities of weaponry as well as enhance physical strength

for ryoshu, it was either soulblade or swordmaster. up to change depending on how her canto goes. i do like the fire mana, though. fits her ego nicely. i just wanted something to do with her sword tbh

meursault - shaper

mana types : earth, enhancement

composite mana : density

attunement function : manipulate solid material into different shapes at a moments notice

i was less certain on this one tbh, mainly because we dont have meurs canto yet, and i dont know that much on him personally. havent done any meursault deep dives. but i think the whole 'shaping solid material thing' could work really well for his fighting style, especially if he had a hand-marked attunement. shapers prefer having free hands to fight im pretty sure. oh and him having density mana is kinda funny to me sorry not sorry

hong lu - illusionist

mana types : light, perception

composite mana : sight

heathcliff - cloudcaller

attunement function : creates large scale illusions, complete with sound and direct mental effects

again, no canto for hong lu, so data is extremely limited. i also dont know his source work at all. im just going off whats already been said, like his whole 'illusion' theme and his jade eye [hence the sight mana type].

mana types : air, water

composite mana : rain

attunement function : create weather events and insert spells into them

did somebody say wuthering heights... no... oh well he has the wuthering heights attunement. thats my whole reasoning. storm boy gets storm attunement

ishmael - wayfarer

mana types : air, mental, transference [tertiary]

composite mana : communication

rodion - mesmer

attunement function : long distance communication and teleportation; tertiary mana type is granted earlier than other attunements

i added transference to the description cause wayfarer is the only attunement with near immediate access to it. the rest take a while to build up to. anyways ishmael gets wayfarer mostly for the whole compass theme. i couldve given her wavewalker but i didnt feel like that fit her very well. and i think this attunement would mess with her head a bit. imagine she couldnt communicate with the pequod crew despite her communication focused attunement, but somehow she felt they were still out there... i just think thats a cool gimmick i could play with

mana types : death, perception

composite mana : madness

attunement function : alter the memories of others to make the user seem like a background character or less important than they actually are

forever cursed to be a background character! in every mirror world!! this one is so cruel but i love it. forced to always be forgotten and overlooked due to her attunement... sorry girl but i gotta stay somewhat canon with it

dante - chronomancer

mana types : perception, transference

composite mana : time

attunement function : unknown, only theorized

i really love this one tbh. out of all the sinners, dante is the only one to have a restricted/theorized attunement! the rest are all regularly found within the world. and it makes sense with limbus lore, too; dantes head is a singularity! so even if the chronomancer attunement isnt real, if limbus company was within the world of arcane ascension, theyd probably do something similar to the god-beast attunement project and just. make the chronomancer attunement themselves.

emil sinclair - purifier

mana types : fire, light

composite mana : purity

outis - commander

attunement function : neutralize mental and physical attacks, can also do decently at giving single-target fire or light attacks

two functions for the two-faced creature... on one hand he can stop damage from affecting him so much, on the other hand he can dish out a lot of damage. didnt want him to be too attack-heavy or support-heavy, because he does Both, and i thought this would be a nice compromise. also kinda references kromers whole 'puritan' thing which i think is cool.

mana types : fire, umbral

composite mana : war

attunement function : increase the range at which spells can be cast

the functionality isnt something i think fits her too much? but then again no outis canto to reference. anyways i chose this one cause it has war mana! war mana!!! for the war criminal! i think she would thank me for this /j

gregor - shapeshifter

mana types : earth, perception

composite mana : alteration

attunement function : create contracts with nonhuman creatures in order to change the users body to reflect the creatures

this is how i make the bug arm canon btw. literally chose this just so the bug arm could still be canon. turn into a bug boy. turn into a bug.

[aroaceleovaldez]

the dynamic of demigods thinking which other demigod is the most powerful is always amusing to me because. like, we know the big 3 kids are all the most powerful. That's just a fact of their universe. And then we know nearly every character views Percy as the strongest demigod, and most people are very rightfully intimidated by him.

and you look at the powers of the Big 3 kids and there's Percy, but then you realize Nico is just kind of objectively more powerful than him but simply chooses to hang out in Percy's shadow like he's Percy's scary dog privileges. Like, the two of them are pretty equally capable of causing multiple different apocalypses. Nico just also has like four different instakill powers and it's not like he doesn't use them. He very much uses them! Not infrequently, even! And they don't seem to take a significant amount of energy from him! And other demigods are pretty intimidated by both of them! But Nico makes a conscious point to keep his cards close to his chest and not let on exactly how dangerous and scary he can be if he wants to. People are already scared enough of him without knowing anything about him and he doesn't like that. Percy doesn't think about that nearly as much, and so usually just goes in guns blazing and that's part of why he's considered a wildcard. And then Nico himself puts Percy on a pedestal, so those who do know more about Nico's abilities then presume Nico knows something they don't about Percy that implies Percy is even stronger than him.

And even on a meta level Nico's narrative role requires him to be functionally more powerful than Percy, because he very often serves the purpose of getting Percy out of situations he can't handle on his own. That's just part of his function as a character! But also narratively he can't overshadow Percy so he just takes a backseat of his own accord and that's very amusing to me.

[thethespacecoyote]

contemplating what exactly it was about ford that made bill feel important now

[ominous-horse-noises]

main takeaway from certain fan reactions to the finale is this:

the final scene with ankarna was so meaningful to the bad kids' arcs and how they made peace with being wronged by people they loved, and if all you can focus on is that the rat grinders didn't get much screentime, then you don't love dimension20 and you don't love this world: you want to be playing your own hs themed dnd campaign and you're mad the oc versions of the rat grinders you made up in your head acted ooc. these are not your characters and this is not their story.

[sallytwo]

be nice to me!

[freakinator]

thinking about kab and the thing about her i think is she knows just enough to keep herself safe Generally but not enough to really predict what would happen should something more... complicated??? unforeseen??? idk whats the right word to use but something not covered by someones reputation and/or vids happen, believe it or not this also affects her view of clownpierce (we'll get to that)

for example, mapicc has a reputation for being an violent, angry, & impulsive guy and nothing else which makes sense but is incredibly surface level and something that only really works if you dont have a lot of experience working with him

another is reddoons, his betrayal after the base incident while shocking is not unforeseen but his reputation as being a guy whos seen as being a reasonable person whos fairly loyal to his team made it seem like something he wouldnt do even tho it absolutely is

regarding how it affects her view of clown, since he isnt perfectly aligned with his reputation she instead pivots in the complete opposite direction and forgiving basically every crime he does even tho hes something much more mild and complicated than either his reputation or her view of him will ever be (think madonna-whore complex which is especially obvious when it comes to kabs vs woogies view of him)

another side effect of this Just Enough amount of knowledge aside from being blinded by her own expectations is that it frustrates ppl who think shes oversimplificating things (like me and seemingly several other tumblr users as well) especially when she claims that shes objectively correct and the smartest in the room at any given moment

how this roughness in her analysis affects her in the server still has yet to be fully seen but we do still have at least a couple months until the end but 'til then shes just gonna keep stumbling as more and more complicated situations pop up as is typical in lifesteal to happen and eventually shes gonna have to learn to adapt or else she'll be suffering the consequences one way or another

[potatobugz]

buddy is surrounded by horrible horrible adults like at all times and it is deeply stressing to me. not to baby him, i do think he is easily mislead but he is not stupid. but also like. can he be given a moment to breathe actually. can he not be manipulated for one second. please put him in a normal social situation with regular teenagers his age please im begging you

[llitchilitchi]

I get hating certain political systems and trying to abolish totalitarian regimes but at the same time many of them are so interwoven with our history and society they have become tropes and when I consume media with a setting where the monarchy is absolute and revered then I am playing my part and sucking that princeling off

[gibbearish]

every time i see discourse about fundraisers go by on here im just fully struck with the realization that not a single one of you people have either taken a cybersecurity fraud prevention course or bothered to take one singular second to consider the website youre on. this is the broke bitches website. none of us can afford to fund our mutuals' grocery bills, much less entire evacuation funds, and CERTAINLY not FAKE evacuation funds taking advantage of genocide victims. all this shit abt how people are deliberately choosing not to fund every post that passes their dash because they hate palestinians literally just does the work of actual scammers for them by laying the high-pressure sales tactics groundwork, and the "do you guys have any idea how hard it is to keep coming up with new attention-grabbing fundraiser posts?" ones just ring EXTREMELY hollow because YEAH! YEAH I DO! and so does everyone i follow! and everyone they follow! because all of us are FUCKING BROKE and surviving on crumbs! i just saw one that said "i make sure to keep $40 in my wallet at all times so i can give $20 to any panhandlers i see, this is the same" and its like!! good for you, thats very nice, but like!!! you need need NEED to take a step back and realize that /being able to do that/ is a position of privilege, not the default setting to be a good person. i wont discount that some people do ignore fundraisers specifically because of racism because Of Course, but like. a) yelling at them isnt gonna make them stop, or more accurately yelling at /everyone else/ isnt gonna make those people stop, and b) trying to apply that as a blanket motivation for everyone just. realistically doesnt work. not donating is a nonaction, it is the literal default status, and while in specific situations you can use CONSISTENT absence of SPECIFIC actions to track a person's motivations SOMETIMES, broadly speaking that just. doesnt work.

there are 8 billion people on this planet. most of them will never know you exist. of the ones that do, most will not be able to help you. of the ones that can, most will not be on the broke bitches website passing the same communal $20 around. consider your audience and stop shitting on fellow poor people for having the gall to need to be careful with their money. and if you are genuinely only posting your fundraiser to tumblr, like. im sorry, but you need to anticipate not reaching your goal and prepare accordingly. theres a reason the last big scam scandal people talk about actually getting the money is like. all-or-nothing era, as a website none of us have the funds to make that kind of thing happen anymore or the security to risk it. a fundraiser not meeting its goal on here is not a personal sleight against whoever made it, its just how life goes sometimes. and it's unfair and it sucks and we should help however we can, but. sometimes you just arent able to help someone else, and continuing to feel responsible serves only to torture yourself. and blaming OTHERS serves only to move that guilt from yourself off onto another person. i imagine that has to be where a lot of the vitriol comes from, is people who cant afford to donate more getting pissed at people they see as having the funds but choosing not to share them, but again, sometimes you just are not able to achieve the goals you set out towards, through no fault of the specific parties involved.

people on tumblr choosing to buy groceries rather than potentially donate to a scam are not your enemy and are not the ones facilitating a genocide. we're all victims of the same horrific system, the question is just how that system manifests its influence on each of us. poverty kills just as thoroughly as a bomb. everyone is just doing their best to survive, and as much as we like to pretend that everyone should be a perfect selfless angel that puts others before themselves no matter what, humans are by default a selfish species, and it is a lot easier to say what youd do in theory than actually do it. and there's a reason you have to put on your own oxygen mask before helping the person beside you, youre of no help to anyone if youre too dead to do anything.

[triglycercule]

horror bragging about he's immortal and allat to killer and dust (because he genuinely thinks he is. like he literally came back from the DEAD that is a proud accomplishment!!!! bro probably brags all the time about it like "heh even if you hit me hard i'll just get back up. bitch")

and then killer's like alright bet! let's test that out! and then he starts going on an all out chase for horror's head. and dust just follows along because hey why the fuck not it sounds fun and it would be nice to knock horror down a peg or two :3 frantic running from horror ensues because as much as he'd like to stick by his claim he REALLY cannot be going around risking to see if him being immortal is actually true 💀

[thedroloisms]

What’s really frustrating is seeing people say “Tommy should’ve known”/“How did Tommy NOT know about his behavior” and it’s just not something you say? Ever? It’s like asking Shelby how she didn’t see the warning signs. When you’re deep in it— when you’re THAT close to someone— you’re going to not see the red flags that someone on the outside might be able to see. Tommy’s an immature guy and he fucked over Dream, yes. However he’s probably reeling over the realization his “big brother” abused someone.

god, for sure. ive also seen people talk about how "if you saw him manipulating you and your friends why didn't you SAY ANYTHING!!!" and it's just ... i'm sorry uh. do you guys not. understand. like there's a power dynamic? there's a power dynamic here people. that's ,,, part of how manipulation in this manner works. like, i know people are saying this because they don't like the person in question, and while i'm not exactly their biggest fan either, being a shitty person doesn't prevent you from being a victim, and vice versa. like, just because you might not like this person or think that they're a shitty person bc of various reasons doesn't make victim blaming suddenly okay, you know.

[burning-sol]

me typing a post abt gaslighting and then deleting it because i think "surely no one wants to hear this" but also of course no one wants to hear it, nobody REALISES they need to hear it. here's a quick and informal PSA.

I'm telling you, if your perception of gaslighting is that of exaggerated arguments where one person is clearly wrong and where all context has been stripped away, that is not what it's like from my experience. We really need to talk about gaslighting as more than just a joke, because once I saw what was most likely a REAL case of gaslighting being downplayed by people who didn't realise they were using the EXACT language that's symptomatic of a real story and also that PERPETUATES the abuse.

The biggest thing people tend to leave out is context. Gaslighting happens between the victim and a person who they hold in regard, someone they've known for a while and love. By the time gaslighting starts to occur or is noticed, you're likely in a position where you're trying to take the other in good faith and characterise their behaviour as honest mistakes. Victims don't necessarily BELIEVE the lies are reality, in fact, it's more likely you tend to just shrug it off and drop it because you value the person above disagreements.

And next is the scaling. By the time you get to any disagreements where someone is outright saying that you're crazy or denying that abusive events happen, you are deep in the process of being gaslit. But how it starts out is that you'll have disagreements recalling smaller things whether it be what your favourite flavour of icecream is, whether they had already told you something you're sure you've heard before, slightly altering history in ways that aren't that far off but still feel wrong, explaining your feelings of uncertainty back to you in ways that COULD be plausible... When you try to explain these disagreements, it can feel humiliating or like the longer you talk about it the more wrong you start to feel and that you're sure that you're just being overly critical...

This ties back into what I said about the language that is symptomatic of real gaslighting stories. The story I read had people say the person wasn't being gaslit because, "it was just over video games?" "your friend sounds like they're just misremembering" "you seem kind of petty"... While yes, it is normal for disagreements and mistakes to happen, they shouldn't be happening to the extent that you're noticing a pattern. If it's a persistent issue in which you're starting to feel insecure and like an unreliable narrator, that is a BAD sign. It also shouldn't be entirely one sided - if you find you're the one consistently having to compromise their reality to satisfy the other, that is ALSO a bad sign.

And it's really important that, again, this is how it may just start. All these smaller things wear you down until you either start to believe the other or you're too demoralised to argue anymore, and the other may continue to escalate UNTIL the arguments become more stereotypical portrayals of gaslighting - and the person may even start to introduce other forms of abuse into the relationship. The period of "trivial" disagreements isolate the victim, especially when they go to their friends for support and their friends downplay the emotions they're feeling, resulting in the victim pulling away when they start to think their issues aren't worth bringing up.

You really just have to experience it for yourself to have tried to communicate you were being gaslit and had your issues shrugged off, to know how awful it feels when you finally get out of that abusive relationship and the people around you will say they, "didn't even know that was happening".

Like, I admit, I do find gaslighting jokes funny. They make me go heehee. But it is very very bad that we aren't actually teaching people what gaslighting realistically looks like, because you're usually only seeing the later stages of gaslighting and not all the smaller things that built up to that! You're not actually catching the signs when it's most critical to be getting out of the relationship.

But yeah. There's my rant.

[mla0]

i hate when people portray michael and/or patrick as some kind of master manipulator who was terrible to shaun and stormy. like, in the past, michael sometimes got portrayed with little autonomy, or as childish and overly innocent in a weird way. that in itself is an issue with the treatment of mentally ill characters (infantilization), but the solution isn't to argue that he's actually a monster who only wanted to hurt and mislead people. the same goes for patrick. i don't enjoy the "goofy flirty mass murderer" interpretation for very similar reasons, because in the canon patrick did indeed do some wild shit but i think it's a stretch to say it was out of malice, except maybe towards eric lol

obviously there will be different views of these characters and this isn't meant to be gatekeep-y or anything, i'm just concerned with how certain portrayals can quickly slide into negative biases towards mental illness. i think if you're going on this route you might want to ask yourself why, and consider how it could make the mentally ill people within the fandom feel when they see their own symptoms portrayed by their peers as synonymous with being dishonest or manipulative

[mxbitters]

on behalf of my gramma i think i should be allowed to tear people who make ai generated cross stitch and crochet patterns limb from limb thank you very much