#vs. going ‘did i fuck up there. was i supposed to omit that. how honest is too honest’

[windrunner]

I wish it was easier for me to initiate conversations abt more than One Subject w/ people but like. idk. what is acceptable outside of Shared Interest so even if I want to branch out I’m kinda stuck

[inevitably-johnlocked]

People complaining about 'queer baiting' when they ought to be more concerned about the amount of fetishisation that occurs when people ship two men lol

Hey Nonny,

I’m gonna assume you’re not trying to be a dick, and are coming from a good place, though you taking the time out to put this ask in a weird serif font is leaving me wondering if you’re trying to stand on a soapbox, but I’m going to ignore that for now, and I ask anyone replying to this post to please also grant that same respect. I only wish to educate, learn, and interact, after all. 

I get what you’re trying to say re: queerbaiting, I really do. And fetishization is a problem, I agree. 

Let’s tackle the queerbaiting first.

Let it be known to you that a large majority of the people calling “queerbaiting” are queer people and academics. I know the false stigma that “fandom is full of stupid little girls” still exists and is something that, quite frankly, this ask is implying and therefore helping to perpetuate. It’s not. Honestly, with this take you have here, you’re disregarding and invalidating the feelings of millions of other queer people who genuinely feel when something is queerbaiting because it’s something they have experienced over and over and OVER again and media just “LOL OOPS SORRY WON’T DO IT AGAIN”. 

Disney is a perfect example of this. How many “first LGBT characters” has Disney had now? At least one a year for the past decade.

Listen, the people who initially called it out years ago for Sherlock were older folks who have lived decades of media constantly teasing gay relationships and then not following through with it at the end... literally “baiting” queer people to watch their shows because more people = more money.

Anyway, Gattiss confirmed he used homoerotic subtext to bait people, so I don’t know what else to say on this matter. That link also has some additional articles and sources that came out regarding the queerbaiting aspect of Sherlock, and they’re all good reads, so I do recommend checking them out.

Some other interesting reads, if only so you can gain some empathy for the others who DO see it as queerbaiting:

Gender and Queer Fan Labour on Tumblr: The Case of BBC’s Sherlock (Webarchive link, so give it a few to load)

The Elephant in the Room: Authorship, Queerbaiting and Sherlock

Queerbaiting in Sherlock 

PODCAST: Queerbaiting in Sherlock

From Queer Reading to Queerbaiting - DiVA Portal

And as I’ve mentioned in past posts, I personally believe Sherlock IS queerrbaiting WITHOUT a confirmation in S5. They had the chance to stop it in S3, and instead they ramped it up. And yes, if you only watch Sherlock and omit S3 and TAB completely, I can see the queerbaiting argument null and void. But instead they made the episode that John was supposed to be getting married the gayest episode in the whole series, next to TAB. So I dunno, my friend.

Now, I shall discuss the very thin line of fetishization vs shipping.

I am not a professional AND I am a fairly recently-realized member of the LGBT community, so I don’t feel it’s my place to tell you what’s what. 

There’s a really interesting Tumblr post by LGBT+ Weekly about this very thing that I think offers a “both sides” approach: Shipping and queer fetishization. And this interesting and on-point post here: About Fandom, Slash, and Fetishizing Gay Men.

From here, I can only offer my opinion, not fact, and I am open to being educated. 

Yes, absolutely some people fetishize LGBT relationships. I’m NOT going to say there aren’t. But a majority of people ship ANY ship because it helps them understand themselves. It’s just that simple, and to tell someone that them shipping characters is bad / no good / fetishization can be harmful to them and make them fear “being gay”. Shipping characters is a way of disconnecting themselves from, well, themselves, and it’s a “safe place” to “come out” or discover themselves.

To me, you’re breaking down fetishization as “I like reading about two people fucking” and nothing beyond that, and not taking into account that many people like a pairing because of chemistry, or because someone sees themselves in a character and are exploring their own sexuality through it. If that’s the case, then I guess all M/F ships are are fetishizations? Why is it only M/M that people decry “fetishization”, when F/F is apparently not (clarification: it totally can also be)? So, is me liking Johnlock any different than my Zutara ship? Why? 

Plus, the reason so many people ship M/M ships is because there’s just SO MANY MALE CHARACTERS ON ANY GIVEN SHOW. 

I get what you’re trying to say, Nonny, I really do. And I know the definition of fetish. But AGAIN, these are characters, not real people, and you’re disregarding other aspects of shipping. Not everyone reads smut to get off. And even if they did, why is that so bad for some people? Personally, I read it because I enjoy reading stories about my favourite characters enjoying being together. I enjoy the dynamic, the possibilities, the chemistry and the love. That it’s never too late to find your person. That two broken souls can help heal each other.

Anyway, TL;DR of all this is: 

YOUR experience is NOT someone else’s experience. 

You didn’t see Sherlock as queerbaiting? Fine, but please understand there’s a reason so many other people DO and it’s not just fandom saying it. The general audience also has said it’s queerbaiting.

You see shipping as fetishization? Okay, and that’s fine. Your definition of fetishization means fictional people having sex, I guess. Maybe I’m just genuinely naïve, but... isn’t that kind of... TERF-y or homophobic? I mean... many people use same-sex shipping and assorted headcanons to help them understand themselves and their sexuality. And why is M/F shipping NOT fetishization, given the broad definition you’re implying by your ask? And I don’t want to get too deep into asexuality, but read up on aegosexuality. Are you then saying aces are fetishists too? Seems like aces can’t enjoy anything, I guess.

They’re fictional characters. Not real people.

Look, I’m stupid and naïve, I get that. And if I have the wrong take here, I’m genuinely interested in hearing your respectful thoughts, along with other people’s. Just, please respect and understand that everyone is not YOU. It’s rather selfish to think that your experiences are everyone else’s, if I’m being honest.

I’m not asking for you to “see my side of things”, just to have a bit of empathy, is all. It can go a long way in a world where just being who you are can get you killed. Fandom and shipping is an escape for a lot of people, because reality is a cruel son of a bitch.

All this said, Nonny, I just want you to be safe and healthy. If discussions of shipping and queerbaiting bother you, please black list the tags, get out of fandom, and please take care of yourself.