#vecna is connected to the hive mind but that doesn’t mean he has to be behind every little thing

[thelostsisters]

theory: the particle cloud henry found was where the creel house is located, it just wasn’t there yet as the upside down hadn’t taken on the image of hawkins at that time

aka, the particles (ie, the mind flayer) has always been looming over that house in the alternate world

[wontbyers]

I don’t know why anyone would not want Will to have powers. I’ve been on this train since the fucking start. He is the central character of the whole story, along with El. It all starts and ends with them. He is so connected to the Upside Down. He was the first one taken, hunted but not killed by the Demogorgon.

Remember it killed the scientist and Barb without hesitation, it didn’t bring Barb’s body to a secondary location (the library, apparently the center of town where the gates all converge in s4) and put a vine in her throat for purposes still unknown to us. Why was Will treated differently? I’ll note it’s possible that the vine is just the temporary stage for the demo-larvae incubation, which we know Barb’s body must have been subjected to as well with the slug coming out of her mouth later. We don’t actually see that process (thankfully) so we can’t be sure how it works and if that’s the only reason Will had the vine at that time.

But S4 shows us how the hive-mind and all the vines are connected to Henry/Vecna/One and how he absorbs people’s powers by either killing them or with the hive-mind, like the meat flayer biting El in s3 to steal/copy her powers. So it’s also possible that had something to do with the state Joyce and Hop found Will in. And in that case, what exactly was taken/borrowed from Will when he had the vine in him or when he temporarily died in the Upside Down in 1983?

He follows the “came back wrong” trope wherein even after he’s revived and brought back home, he had a connection to the other side. He was experiencing flashes into the UD (shadow-walking or what have you) when he wasn’t even possessed yet. In fact, the Mind Flayer (which we know now to be Henry’s tool) was specifically hunting him, stalking him, beckoning him, chasing him down.

Thus Henry either 1. opened the doorway for him into the other dimension (not a gate-doorway, but whatever that shadow-walking was—the “flea and the acrobat” but Will is the flea) so that he could possess him with the Mind Flayer, because he wanted Will in particular as his host for some reason.

OR 2. He chose Will as his host because Will could already shadow-walk (unintentionally/uncontrollably) and happened to make himself an available option for possession by being an accessible body in the UD, in which case Will is the one with the special ability.

Like, either he was chosen for a reason (we don’t know yet) or he was chosen for convenience because he was doing something supernatural on his own. Either way it’s fucking suspicious, no? What more do you people want??

Will also maintains his connection to the Upside Down hive-mind AFTER being exorcised of the shadow/flayer particles. He can sense that shit in s3 and s4 (once he’s back in proximity/in Hawkins.) He gets the same neck tingles he did BEFORE he was ever possessed, while he was possessed, after he was freed.

(And of course, Henry focuses on his vendetta against El because he has a personal beef with her, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t also have a secret motive for targeting Will, trying to use him for whatever purposes. The reason he hasn’t spoken it is to keep it a surprise—why would the Duffers show all their hands in the second-to-last season and not leave any more surprises for the big finale?? What other twist is left, unless s5 is just “they’re gonna have to fight him again until El finally puts him down for good, the end, nothing else unique or interesting or new to understand here.”)

IN ADDITION. The UD is frozen on the day Will was taken (November 6, 1983 is also the day El opened the mother-gate, but remember this was the second time she opened it so clearly it was not her influence that—either imprinted a flashbulb image of Hawkins as it was on that night onto the formerly untouched UD dimension, or froze the dimension in its progression of time if the UD was already existing as a dark mirror of our world at that point.)

This has Will written all over it, but everyone automatically assuming it only comes back to El is such a good misdirect that people who are not as invested in theorizing will be shocked to find out how deeply connected Will is with all of it. Everyone assumes El is the only main character but she and Will’s stories have always been so intertwined.

I swear, I’ve been waiting for the ultimate reveal of Will’s importance to the core storyline—not just “he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and then again idk”—for years. Since I first watched this show. Seeing people say he’s not is SO BIZARRE TO ME.

Some are just people who don’t care for him as a character and therefore refuse to see how central he is, even with all the evidence in their face. Some do like Will but are El super-fans who want her to be the only special one and think we’re trying to take something away from her by suggesting Will also has importance to the main supernatural storyline and has powers. Couldn’t be me, I’m a Willel Wonder Twins truther from day 1, fuck you. They’re equally central to the plot. They’re two sides of the same coin. They’re (platonic) soulmates.

But also seeing people who love Will and ship Byler say they don’t want him to have powers because “oh but Mike’s superhero complex, it’s not good for their romantic storyline because—” blah blah I’ve been a Will Byers stan before Byler and regardless of Byler. I love them, I need them to have their happy ending together, but Will Byers having powers and a connection to the Upside Down has ALWAYS been the plot and neither that nor the Byler plotline cancel each other out or cheapen each other!!! (Will being gay and getting the boy is not his only character arc. Controversial???)

My personal favorite theory: I think it makes so much sense if Will had an unknown ability to shape the Upside Down into a version of Hawkins—because we do get to see how the realm appeared before he was taken (when Henry explores it) and we know that it was frozen on the date he was taken.

The Duffers have literally stated that season 5 would address those questions, that they included that bit in s4 but didn’t explain it—which means that the answer CANNOT simply be that it’s the date El opened the gate and that’s why. That’s already the information we have. If that was the answer there wouldn’t still be a question.

Plus Will is paralleled to Henry—Henry was said to be a “sensitive” boy and had some artistic interest: he drew his spiders and the unique spider-adjacent shape of the “Mind Flayer” which we see him form out of the shapeless cloud of particles in the UD. Will also being an artist and having the unexplored ability to shape an imprint of his hometown on the foreign dimension he was adbucted into? More likely than you’d think.

Also, the idea that it’s maybe too late to show that he has powers, that he (or we as an audience) should have known by now? They did a whole entire plot-line in s4 where El had repressed memories due to trauma and was able to recover powers that had been stolen from her. Is it truly impossible that we’ll see a “plot twist” (it’s not a twist for genius Will-has-powers-truthers who have predicted it but I digress) where Will unlocks latent abilities that he didn’t even know he had?

He doesn’t have to specifically have powers to have shaped/frozen the Upside Down, I just think that makes a lot of sense. I also thinks it makes a lot of sense that he’s connected to the Upside Down without even being attached to the hive-mind, because he could sense it before/after the possession. Inarguable, actually that part’s just canon.

Speculation: maybe we’ll see him wrest control of the hive-mind from Henry and bring peace back to the Demogorgons and their home dimension. (Return it to being unspoiled by mankind.) That’s my ultimate pipe dream, but I probably won’t get everything I want.

Anyway, Noah Schnapp and the Duffers have all stated multiple times that Will is gonna be a big focus next season, fans are going to be shocked and pleased, it all started and will end with him etc etc. Whether you like it or not.

Get on board losers!!!! I don’t care if I’m mean, you are the most boring person ever if you think Will Byers doesn’t/shouldn’t canonically have powers in Stranger Things.

[questioningalllifechoices]

i was thinking about s5 and now i’ve got too many things in my head that i need to get out. so without further ado, this is a list of things im excited/worried to see play out next season…

1. wills connection with the upside down and vecna. we know it’s a hive mind and it’s all connected so with will being in that connection, what’s gonna happen when the UD dies? is the connection just gonna wither away? is will gonna become the ruler of the UD? is will gonna die??? are they gonna somehow sever the connection before killing vecna? is the UD always going to exist therefore the connection is always going to exist? like i’m genuinely worried about all of these possibilities, I NEED ANSWERS!!!

2. the painting. i could truly see an argument happening about it but i could also see mike breaking down over it. let me explain, he trusts will more than anyone with his vulnerability. he could possibly see it as will was lying to him about everything rather than just who the feelings are actually from. if they go this route, mikes gonna question hisself and his relationship with will but in possibly the worst way. they made amends before the whole painting confession thing so mike more than likely thinks they were doing good! but then will turns around and lies about el’s feelings for mike to hide his own. meaning when he finds out the truth, mike might see it as will doesn’t trust him or doesn’t see him as worthy enough to be vulnerable around when in all actuality will was just scared which could also be used for mike to put himself down, unfortunately. (this one isn’t as articulate as the former but i tried my best to explain it properly)

3. el’s storyline. they’ve basically taken everything from her besides the fact that they’ve given her hopper back and an actual family. i want more than anything for her to find her independence and i truly hope that she has a happy ending. she deserves it just as much as will does.

4. max. as someone who is partially blind im kind of anxious but excited to see how they go about showing her with that type of disability if they decide to go that route.

5. dustin’s trauma. they’ve yet to address it so i’m a bit worried they might not even think of doing so in the last season. i mean the poor kid is the only one besides el who has actually directly killed a person. he watch one of the men he looked up to die and actually held him as he did along with that, they’re probably going to kill steve off(god, i hope not but still). he has an absent father. i mean we know little to nothing about his life outside of the party whereas we know about wills life as well as mikes, lucas’ max’s and el’s. all we know is he doesn’t have a dad present and he lives with his mother and their cat…it truly feels like they’ve neglected his character at least a little bit so i hope we get to see more of his backstory or an exploration of his character in s5.

5. i have a feeling steve and possibly robin are going to die. i stg if they kill them i’ll burn netflix to the ground!

6. ms. kelley. im convinced she’s got something to do with everything. going by her being connected to everyone that was targeted by vecna and the fact she’s also got a clock thingy around her neck the theory of her working with vecna or something isn’t too far fetched!

7. mike being targeted or something because he’s been in vecnas way for the past 4 seasons. he always messes up his plans in some kind of way wether intentional or not.

8. im excited to see how lonnie is going to play into all this going from that picture from the set. hopefully it’s a form of revenge for will(not that i think he’s capable of doing something that “evil” but why not?) and not because of will getting vecna’d.

9. the russia plot. there’s no way in hell the russian government is going to let the russia group get away with what an all they did.

10. i swear if they bring stancy back i hate to say it but i actually do hope they kill steve off. if they put him through all of that character development just to put him back with nancy then what was really the point?? like seriously he’s better off by himself than with her considering how she hurt him. it would be a disservice to both of their characters and jonathan’s to make them endgame.

11. this should probably be higher up on the list but oh well, im concerned about how they’re going to go through with byler. i have no doubt in my mind that there’s going to be byler endgame BUT i hope they make mike make the first move for the simple fact that the homophobic portion of the GA would completely rip will to shreds if he were to do something first. they’d say he forced mike or made him uncomfortable or that mike just went along with it to be nice or some shit and i really don’t wanna hear that.

that’s all for now. this is honestly a complete mess but i think it’s coherent enough to be understood lmao.

[wibble-wobbegong]

RM Renfield and Victor Creel

Okay, this is a mini Dracula parallel post because this doesn’t really fit in with the bigger analysis but it’s way too on the nose to ignore. For those who don’t know, Bram Stoker’s Dracula was on the board of inspired movies for S4. The parallels between this movie and the show are absolutely NUTS

For starters, RM Renfield was once a solicitor in the firm of Hawkins and Thomkins. He’s now a patient in an insane asylum as he’s ended up dedicating himself to his Master who has promised him immortality; Dracula. Dracula never fulfills this promise of immortality, rather eventually killing him after he warns Mina to run from Dracula due to it being an act of betrayal against his Master. It’s hard to ignore the narrative parallels between Victor and Renfield here, considering that Victor moves his family to Hawkins and later ends up in an insane asylum himself. Textually, it’s more interpretive but Victor does have a strong wish to join his family, specifically saying, “I tried to join them,” which strongly indicates Henry’s presence in his life as his saying to those he declares as victims is to ask them to join him. Dracula teases Renfield with the possibility of immortality and it seems possible that Henry teased Victor with the chance to see his family again.

Both Renfield and Victor perform acts that bring them closer to being a true victim of their respective demon. Renfield lives on a diet of live animals, primarily bugs, because Dracula and those he turns into vampires too live on a diet of live creatures. Victor tries to carve out his own eyes in an attempt to recreate the results of one of Vecna’s curse victims, who’s eyes are lost.

What I find to be really, really interesting is this conversation Renfield has with his warden Jack Seward.

“You see, it’s life that I ingest. Gives life back to me.”

“A fly gives you life?”

“Certainly. But you might as well ask a man to eat molecules with a pair of chopsticks than to interest me in a lesser carnivore.”

“I shall have to invent a new classification of lunatic for you. What about spiders? Spiders eat the flies.”

“Yes, spiders eat them.”

“What about sparrows?”

“Oh, yes. Did you say sparrows?”

“Something larger perhaps?”

“Oh, yes. A kitten. I beg you. A little sleek… a playful kitten, something I can teach, something I can feed. No one would refuse me a kitten.”

“Wouldn’t you prefer a cat?”

“Oh, yes. Yes. A big cat. My salvation depends on it.”

“Your salvation?”

“Yes. I need lives. I need lives for the Master.”

“Master? What Master?”

“The Master will come. And he has promised to make me immortal.”

I mean, come on. Flies, spiders, big cats? It’s literally describing the shit that the show is showing us to a T.

The fly is the victim of spiders. The flies represent victims, and we know of two characters who match the description of the flea from Mr. Clarke’s metaphor; Henry and Will. Fleas and flies are both under the same class, so it’s not a stretch by any means. The spiders eat these flies: Virginia and Henry are both spiders. Virginia is a spider as we see from Henry showing her spiders in the bathtub (those visions are only holding up a mirror). Henry functions as a spider through the Mind Flayer. These are literally in the show, but it goes bigger.

If we’re following these connections, then there’s a third layer between Henry’s spider and Henry himself; the sparrow. Sparrows eat the spiders. The most likely candidates for these sparrows are Brenner and Owens, seeing as Brenner seemed to be above Virginia considering that she was trying to take Henry to him and he later covered up her death. Owens experiments on Henry’s spider in S2, discovers ways in which it can be damaged through the hive mind. It’s also implied that the shadow which was in control of the meat monster was removed and somehow ended up in the hands of the Russians, which shouldn’t have been possible since Owens’ team was there before they would’ve had time to do such a thing. It seems that Owens is still experimenting with the shadow, somehow, through or with the Russians.

Yet, even though there is another layer, Henry still sits above them all. Henry is the cat; the wild cat the officers claim are killing those animals in 1959; the silver cat that feeds. Henry eats the sparrows. Or, in this sense, he serves as the highest predator. As Henry himself states, Brenner is just a man, but he is more than that. He’s the ultimate predator.

What I really love about this conversation, is that the big cat isn’t being described as a predator at all! Not because Henry isn’t a predator, but because this only reinforces that Victor is meant to be paralleling this guy. Renfield wants a cat he can teach and feed, something to take care of. In fact, doing so would appease his Master. Henry’s relationship with his father is one very much so based on neglect and ignorance, which is why he considers him naive and stupid, but for some reason it seems that Henry may be continuing to visit his father. Honestly, I think this could be implying that Victor does wish to have Henry back or that he wants the chance to raise his child right. It would appease his Master, who would then grant him the ability to join his family. Henry may be using Victor’s want for Alice and Virginia to make himself a father who cares. Of course, Victor is doing this because he misses Alice and Virginia, but he can ‘join them’ if he appeases Henry, who wanted to be cared for by his father.

This stuff doesn’t really fit in with the larger picture that Dracula paints, but i think it’s a neat little nod to the hierarchy of predation and Henry’s longing for a father who cared (though he also takes this chance to punish Victor by dancing this opportunity in front of him and never giving it to him. It’s also a form of revenge i think).

[lupon]

I know there’s already been a lot of theories about Will and Soteria, but I just wanted to talk about it, because you know, why not. Soteria was the device Brenner created to weaken and track One after he became too powerful and dangerous to be controlled. It was surgically implanted in the back of his neck, and it was likely around this time they forced him to help the other test subjects develop their powers. They basically just wanted to suck as much usefulness as they could out of him. 

What really caught my eye about all this was the fact that One said it tracked him. In s2 when Will was getting harassed by the Mind Flayer, how did it always know where he was? When we saw it for the first time outside his house, it looked directly at him. When they were trick or treating, it was laying dormant until Will showed up. And how on earth did it find him in the middle of the school? Even the last shot of s2, it’s hovering over the gym, where Will is. I don’t think the sensor is one way. Vecna can sense Will, just as Will can sense Vecna. This connection was likely formed when Will had the tendril down his throat.

We never see any of the other characters who were killed by the Upside Down attached to the vines. The only two people have been Will and Vecna. Vecna uses the vines in a similar way that El uses her bath, to focus on his powers and be put in a trance. Will was connected to the hive mind in a similar fashion to Vecna, with a vine inside his body, whereas the other character are simply enclosed by them, similar to a spiders prey. Vecna is also able to control the vines, and can “see” through them. Will had something similar when he was possessed, having near constant now-memories of seeing through the vines. 

Then of course there’s the fact that Will probably has powers. What exactly his powers are is a whole other topic, all that’s important is that Vecna knows Will has powers. And since he can control the vines, he probably formed that special connection with Will on purpose. He may have doe it just as a way to fully absorb Will’s power, since he was dead when Joyce and Hopper found him. What Vecna wasn’t expecting was for them to bring Will back to life. This could have caused Will’s powers to be “weakened” in a sense, since Vecna originally planned on just absorbing his power, and maybe he did. And since Will was directly connected to the hive mind, he became a part of it. Like Steve explained, “If you step on a vine, you’re stepping on a bat, and you’re stepping on Vecna.” However, Will’s connection isn’t like the Demogorgon's, demo bats, or even Vecna himself. Will can only really sense the Mind Flayer/Vecna because that’s who he was connected to, rather than being able to sense the monsters like Vecna can. Will can’t see through the vines, and doesn’t feel pain when the monsters do, he only did when a part of the Mind Flayer was in him. Which means a part of the Mind Flayer is likely in Vecna. Vecna's connection is to the Mind Flayer, just like all the monsters, while Will’s connection is to Vecna, which would explain why he couldn’t sense them until he had a connection with the Mind Flayer via being possessed. 

So essentially, Will’s connection with Vecna acts in a similar way to Soteria, giving both Vecna and the Mind Flayer the ability to track him, and may have even weakened him. Henry became Brenner, who originally invented Soteria, metaphorically swapping places and becoming the abuser. Proving El wrong when she said he wasn’t the monster, that it was Brenner. Vecna is a monster too. But One also mentioned how he was a prisoner, and that Soteria was the one thig keeping him there. El had to rip it out of his neck for him to be free. A similar rule likely applies to Will as well, he can’t truly be free until the connection is broken. This can probably only be done by killing Vecna. Once Vecna is dead, Will has nothing connecting him the the Upside Down. He’d be free. 

[aurelion-cerulean]

Mind Flayer & Upside Down vs Growing up & the Unknown.

I think that this should be clear from my opinion at this point, but I see the Mind Flayer as a concept and the Upside Down as a place that exists. We attribute horror and evil to it because we don’t understand it. When we see Henry in the Upside Down in Season 4, we see that there is a strange balance to the place until he starts to manipulate it and control it. IMO the Mind Flayer, the leader of the hive mind, is neither good nor bad. It just exists. But it’s scary because we don’t know it. We don’t understand it. And we want to control things that we don’t understand.

Stranger Things has always been a coming of age tale for the kids. It is about growing up and facing the unknown and their fears. Season 4 proves this will conclude so many of the arcs, and touch on a lot of the fears that the kids have. Now Season 5, in my opinion, is where they have to face the horror and accept that its okay not to know. It’s okay not to control the unknown. It exists, but that doesn’t mean its terrible.

It is for this reason that I think the Mind Flayer is evil only because Vecna controls it. Vecna/Henry/001, is the embodiment of what the kids could become. Like Mike, he has a desire to be seen. (Mike wants to be needed, more so, but I’m trying to link them a bit more here so I said be seen.) Like Will, he is an outsider. Like El, he thinks he is a monster (Season 4 just helped her realize that she’s not, but it’s important to note). My argument is that these three are the main three, as they have always been, and Season 5 will push that again. Vecna is an outsider to the Upside Down and after being forced down there, his fear manifested in control. He then manipulated and twisted the Upside Down into a terrible place, where before it was neutral. It simply existed. He lords over it and controls it and can not let go of that control, because he fears the unknown.

Vecna attacks people who have sins. He says he sees them for what they are, because he doesn’t like lies. He doesn’t like people hiding their true selves. He is afraid. Thus he does everything in his power to control what he can not. In that twisted way, he made it his life’s duty to punish people who he thinks are wicked or twisted, because he doesn’t understand the complexity of people. He never grew up learning to forgive. He did not grow up learning to trust and rely on others. He is so scared of being rejected that he rejects everyone. He hurts others who hide themselves, because he himself is hiding. He is alone and afraid. That is what makes him dangerous.

Vecna took the Mind Flayer and connected himself to it because he was so scared of not knowing that he needed to know everything. And then he reached out to the real world, because this twisted ideology is growing. While his actual reasoning behind this is a bit weak, I think its strong thematically. Because just like Vecna, teenagers will reach out to control everything in their lives as much as they can, and sometimes that is big things. Sometimes that is small things. They are afraid of growing up, afraid of change, they are afraid. Hopper’s letter at the end of season 3 explains this perfectly. So, the kids are afraid of growing up, changing, and becoming people they don’t know or understand. Season 4 shows this. Season 5 they face it.

Vecna is the big bad, that they have to defeat but not the mind flayer. I think part of the arc is going to be learning that the Upside Down and the Mind Flayer are not bad. They are neutral: balanced. That the unknown and the future does not have to be scary and bad. It just exists and they, the kids, will have to face it regardless. And while the unknown can hurt them, it doesn’t have too. They have to believe in themselves and the support networks they’ve made (their friends) to have their back, because they don’t have to face it alone.

Vecna is the one they have to defeat, the embodiment of the fear that they themselves are facing. By facing him they are facing their own fears, and accepting what will happen when they do.

This would tie in perfectly to the coming of age, growing up story that is being told. The Upside Down has always been a scary thing, but as you grow up, you learn that while life is rough, it doesn’t have to be so scary. It might be stressful, but you don’t have to be alone. Ultimately for a tale about friendship and growing up, I think this is where they should go. Because otherwise, why the Vecna twist? To add tension? Why is he the final boss? Why now? This is why.

Because they’re mirrors.