#utterly fascinated by Louis and Armand's relationship

[liaratisoni]

OK OK OK!!! What a rollercoaster of emotions whew!!! Definitely some things in there that I was NOT expecting but hit SO HARD holy shit. Like I had a feeling we'd get a Louis scene like that at some point but definitely not in this episode. Fuck, that was so hard to watch :(

[thequeenofsastiel]

I love 2x05 because it's the first time the curtain is being pulled back on Armand's character. So far he had been sane and charming. Then 2x05 happened. I just need to drop these screencaps bc jfc

He looks absolutely wild and unhinged. My little amber-eyed pumpkin had one thing going for him, and it was his relationship with Louis. That just got utterly shattered when Louis called him "boring" "colorless" "flavorless" "dull" and "the world's softest, beigest pillow". Something breaks in Armand at this, and he's a hurricane, just like Lestat. His powers come flying out of him, and he takes his anger out on a 20 year old boy, simply because Louis called him fascinating. This episode gave us a glimpse of what Armand might be like in the future(or past) and I am here for it.

[showmey0urfangs]

Louis' hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance

Oh boy, where to start? Episode 5 gave me a lot to think about. I find show Loumand fascinating™ though I have my (many) gripes with how the show chose to go about them. They have a very interesting dynamic that I think warrants exploring further.

When Louis first arrives in Paris, Armand tries to seduce him with a carefully crafted veneer of the all-powerful coven master. He seeks to impress Louis by playing up his mysterious allure and power. Though Louis is obviously attracted to him, he is very reluctant to take things further, and he insists that the relationship has to be on his terms. “If you want me I'm here.”

Louis is adamant that he doesn't want to be caught in yet another toxic dynamic like the one he had with Lestat. He no longer wants to be in a relationship where he is vastly outmatched and overpowered. The power imbalance is in great part why Louis hesitates to go all the way with Armand, sticking to casual meaningless sexual encounters (none of which we got to see on screen, thank AMCee!) but refusing to acknowledge Armand publicly. Ouch!

We see this dynamic shift in episode 4, when Armand finally manages to reassure Louis that he is “not Lestat”. He does this by allowing himself to be vulnerable with Louis and opening up about his traumatic past—something that Lestat rarely did. He also willingly cedes his power to Louis, allowing Louis to be his “master” and to take full control of their relationship.

This dynamic continues on until present day Dubai, where Armand is utterly deferential to Louis and seems to exist only to serve Louis and see to his every need, even if that means agreeing to things that he does not want to do (like sitting down for an interview with the same guy that nearly ruined their relationship 50 years ago and who has come back to finish what he started. We stan #homewreckerDaniel).

Armand essentially moulded himself to become what Louis told him he wanted in a partner; someone gentle, non-threatening, loving and devoted to the point of being obsequious. Someone who acquiesced to all of Louis' desires, even the most destructive ones. Armand is so desperate for love and acceptance that he will go to diabolical lengths and sink to the most humiliating depth to have it. And Louis knows this; “my daddy vampire groomed you into a little bitch.”

So imagine Armand's shock and horror when in episode 5, a drug-addled Louis tells him he is boring, colourless, flavourless, a beige pillow, so dull and insignificant that a mere human boy that Louis has only known for a few hours is more interesting than him. Louis admits he looks down on Armand for surrendering his power, mocking him for the fact that he is willing to lick Louis' boots, clean after him, and wait for him patiently as Louis goes out to seek excitement in the arms of “low lives, unfortunate and broken children.”

Louis signifies to Armand in all possible ways that what he truly craves is the chaos and the violent passion that Lestat offers. He is bored with Armand's “prison of empathy” to the point that he'd rather yeet himself into the sun than endure it for another second. Armand of course tries to patch things up with a quick mind wipe and restart, but the damage is already done.

The truth is that Louis never wanted a meek subservient partner. He never wanted a love that was easily won. What attracted him to Armand was his power and his capacity for destruction. Louis loves to tame monsters because he is one himself. He loves the thrill of danger and the excitement that comes from the uncertainty. He loves the chase and the loud vicious fights that end in heated makeup sex.

The problem is that Louis does not want to admit that to himself. He probably would have never admitted it to Armand either in his right mind—in vino coke and quaaludes veritas est. The person Louis is and the person he thinks he needs to be are completely at odds. What he thinks he should want vs what he actually wants are contradictory.

Because of this, Louis exists in a state of perpetual cognitive dissonance. He represses his desires in order to strive for some unattainable self-imposed moral ideal. He loves Claudia and wants to be a good father brother to her, but a selfish part of him sees her as a burden and knows making her was a mistake. This is something he verbalizes in many instances this season, consistently and subconsciously; Was she worth it? Speaking of poor decisions, The wilderness that is our daughter, Imagine me without the burden of her. He desperately wants to connect to his humanity and be better than the other vampires that he judges as sadistic and slave to their baser instincts, but he too inevitably succumbs to his bloodlust and often kills more recklessly and viciously than any other vampire. He tells himself that Lestat is the wrong kind of love, but he is irresistibly drawn to him and still hasn't moved 80 fucking years later.

You can chalk this up to good ol' catholic guilt, or to growing up with a shitty mother who made him feel like he would never be good enough no matter how hard he tried, in a society where he has to juggle several masks just to survive. Either way, it always results in Louis being torn between his desires and his guilt for failing to live up to the version of himself he thinks he needs to be.

IDK what the point of this essay was other than to say that ultimately Louis and Lestat deserve each other and Armand needs to stand the fuck up and stop simping for a man who obviously does not want him. Come be with me pookie, I will treat you so much better. 💖

That's all. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. 😊

[toriangeli]

Thoughts about Lesmand next season

I maintain that one of the most important relationships of s3 is going to be Lestat/Armand, not because of shipping, but because it's very central to TVL and the series as a whole. Their complicated feelings about each other are fascinating. And they're complicating them even further.

One clear change made is that Lestat now blames Armand for Nicki's death. For those who haven't read the books, Lestat never blamed Armand for Nicki's suicide. This is because one of book!Lestat's most infuriating flaws is that he forgives immediately. This isn't because he's a sweetheart or virtuous or any of that shit, it's because he doesn't like feeling negatively. It's a trait that gets him into a lot of trouble.

But on a television show, something visual and far more concrete than the contents of a book, I can see how this attitude could lead an audience to believe Lestat didn't really care about Nicki. I think that's a good enough reason to make the change already. But there's another important reason to change this.

People talk about how much Lestat's characterization changes between the first two books, but seldom do we get into how vastly Armand changes. Not as a result of character development--as a result of Anne Rice not quite knowing who he is. He was the villain of the first two books, and she expected him to remain a villain until she wrote QOTD and realized he isn't evil.

But by the time she'd figured that out about him, TVL was already out there, and the conflicted nature of Lesmand was very much one-sided. Lestat thought they were besties, while Armand had basically no redeeming characteristics. In this light, Marius' abandonment of Armand is more understandable than it is later on, because as of the writing of TVL, Armand really was meant to be beyond hope.

So at the start, Lestat and Armand really just had a hero-villain relationship. Straight-up. With mutual pining. Some of the major beats of their dynamic, like Armand's sincere belief that Lestat led him on, or Lestat's strange trust in a very unstable Armand, came out of nowhere. It seemed like some of Lestat's attitude towards him was only there to make the betrayals even crueler. Lestat was a total martyr. Hell, at one point (in Memnoch I think) he even asked how Armand could still love him "after everything I've done to you." Lestat didn't do shit to Armand.

Conversely, it can also feel like their later closeness comes out of nowhere. A lot of grudges are let go during QOTD in the face of bigger problems, and the Lesmand conflict is one of them. But what did they do to earn the closeness they have as of Memnoch? What bonded them so much that Armand was the only one who could safely approach a coma'd Lestat?

The show has the opportunity to make these beats feel earned. It has the opportunity to make the conflict something they both contribute to, rather than just Armand. Just like with Lestat, they are drawing characterization of Armand from later books where Anne had his personality down more solidly. They've ironed out some of the big conflicting things, like him spell-gifting Louis into turning Madeleine when turning people is later established to be utterly against his moral code.

More than anything, I hope to see what made them so important to each other right away. I want to see Lestat's pity and mercy as he realizes how very unwell Armand is, and how that is the reason he lashes out. I do think it should still fall apart because Armand bites the hand that feeds him. I do still want the unhinged gremlin we saw in 2.05. But I think if the audience is going to empathize with him--something Rolin has said is important to them--Lestat shouldn't be quite so much of a saint. I think there should be a crumb of a reason Armand thinks Lestat led him on, albeit a small enough one that it's still not a conclusion a rational person would come to. Like the blood-sharing and casual (for Lestat) sex in Armand's little story. Ideally even smaller. I'd like there to be some trigger. Otherwise, the audience will wonder if they missed something (as I did).

I'll probably ramble more as thoughts come up, but that's it for now.

[zkaus]

Why do you think this interview is happening?

As the entire Dubai storyline is new, we just don't know where it's all heading, but I'm utterly fascinated!!

There are so many amazing theories! I've summarised my favs below:

THEORY 1: - The interview is for Armand/Daniel

This theory argues that Armand and Daniel's relationship will mirror the books. In the books, Armand was obsessed with Daniel (stalked him for years), then they were a couple for 8 years before Armand turned him. Armand desperately didn't want to, but Daniel was dying (substance abuse) - it was turn him or lose him.

This theory suggests that in the show Armand wiped Daniel's memories years ago, but still loves him. He has been tracking him closely, and upon finding out that he's dying, he freaks out.

He can't stand losing him, so, he has Louis repeat the interview (to reproduce the process that originally brought Daniel to him). He pretended to be human so Daniel had the opportunity to connect with him as an equal, a proper companion (like how Lestat hid his Cloud Gift from Louis).

THEORY 2: - General Vampire Unrest

This theory argues that there is unrest in the Vampire world and that the interview is about provoking Lestat into finding them. This suggests that Dubai storyline takes place either before 'Prince Lestat' or 'The Vampire Lestat', and that they are trying to get him to come to Dubai to help them sort out the unrest (as in the beginning of 'Prince Lestat'). Basically, Daniel's book is like Benji's radio station, begging Lestat to come to them.

THEORY 3: - 'The Groan' is Those Who Must Be Kept

This theory argues that 'The Groan' we hear many times throughout the Dubai scenes is Those Who Must Be Kept waking up. That's a HUGE problem because they would enslave the human and vampire races. (Possibly, the apartment in Dubai is Marius's house - It is his painting is on the wall).

They need Lestat's help to pacify/deal with them, so the interview is a way to get his attention. Also, we know Lestat has already met them before (he mentions this in episode 6) so it's canon that he knows them.

THEORY 4 :- 'The Groan' is Lestat

This theory argues that the show takes place after Memnoch and that it's Lestat groaning in despair. This supposes that (some of) the events of TVL, QOTD and ToTBT have already happened. At this point in the books, Lestat is semi-catatonic, but wakes up to save Louis when he attempts suicide. Earlier, he also helps Armand by culling a huge amount of vampires which were threatening the safety of the city. As Armand says in the show, the interview is basically a suicide note. So, this interview could be about getting Lestat to wake up by provoking the rest of the Vampires to try killing Louis.

THEORY 5a:- The Interview is for Louis

This theory supposes that Louis is a captive/prisoner of Armand, and that he is pretending to love him, but actually wants to escape. It argues that Louis is planning to publish IWTV to provoke Lestat into action and save him from Armand (and the vampires who would try to kill him). This one suggests that Armand loves Louis and is controlling/passifying him to 'protect' him from himself.

This theory also suggests that Armand is behaving like a caregiver, and allowing Louis to do the interview as a form of therapy. But that he has no intention of allowing Daniel to actually publish it (as he knows it's a death sentence for Louis).

THEORY 5b:- The interview is for Lestat

This theory is similar to the one above, except that it proposes that Armand will allow the book to be published. This is to provoke Lestat to come to them (either so Armand can kill him or because he is in love with Lestat too). And that he is pretending to be human both to avoid being mentioned in the book Daniel will publish, and to manipulate/control what Daniel will write about his past (the Theatre of the Vampires etc).

And that's just the start! There are so, so, so many more. And so many unanswered questions. I can't wait till season 2, to find out!

Personally, I think it's a combination of several (1, 3 and 5b).

Which do you think is most likely?

Do you have a different theory?

Anything to add?

.

[nalyra-dreaming]

oh GOD that Armand/Lestat scene in BC wrung me out emotionally! I also weirdly love the scene in the prev book where Armand calls to give Lestat some Important Updates and Lestat acts like a lil bitch about it, like 'ughhh why are you bothering me with this?' and Armand's like 'CUZ YOU'RE THE PRINCE, U IDIOT'. And then they have that little moment where Armand finds out Louis & Lestat are together, and he's really sweet about it. Bless them! They've never had a single normal interaction tho.

*snickers* And that is the charm of them, isn't it :)))

The utterly weird, bitchy but deeply loving state they have later, based in utter fascination from the get-go.

I'd argue they are also much more alike than either of them wants to admit, but what I adore about them is how deep the acceptance runs, because they actually feel the... kinship, this similarity I think. How there is no real jealousy in regards to Louis in the books, not even "right after" Paris (well in the tale^^), when Armand comes to Lestat.

Actually, in regards to Armand and "fledgling" I found it hilarious in Memnoch when Lestat is so prickly about David and Armand knowing each other, lmao.

It also shines an interesting light onto his relationship with David, because he repeats some of the more abusive (and vampiric) actions with David which Armand does to at times, like the force-feeding. But that just as a note.

Ugh I cannot wait to see Sam and Assad interact.

I bet their chemistry will be off the charts as well.

[brightbeautifulthings]

Interview with the Vampire by Anne Rice

"'Don't you see? I'm not the spirit of any age. I'm at odds with everything and always have been! I have never belonged anywhere with anyone at any time!' 'But Louis,' he said softly. 'This is the very spirit of your age. Don't you see that? Everyone else feels as you feel. Your fall from grace and faith has been the fall of a century.'"

Year Read: 2018

Rating: 3/5

Context: I vaguely remember trying to read this once when I was younger and giving up on it for the slow pace and dense descriptions. I've seen the movie many times, and despite my general dislike of Tom Cruise, I think it's a great adaptation (and possibly one of the best performances of his career). This Halloween-month, I resolved to get through it once and for all, since The Vampire Chronicles have long been some of my dad's favorite books. This year, he finally gave in and read the first Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter novel after years of listening to my mom and me rave about them, so it only seems fair that I read one of his favorites. (Spoiler alert: I'm still Team Anita.) Actual spoilers will be clearly marked. Trigger warnings: blood, death, and endless brooding from the world's most reluctant vampire.

About: After more than two centuries of living (such as it is) as a vampire, Louis has consented to tell the story of his long life. At first disbelieving and then enraptured, the boy recording it listens to the gruesome tale with shock and fear. The story chronicles Louis's brief human life in the 1700's in New Orleans to his descent into immortality at the hands of the violent and erratic vampire, Lestat. Their relationship far from easy, however, Lestat soon makes a third vampire, Claudia, forever trapping her in a child's body. The three live as an uneasy but happy family for decades, but Lestat's villainy and Claudia's rage at being forever helpless constantly threaten their peace. Before long, Louis and Claudia flee to Europe in search of other vampires, but their quest may lead them into more danger than they've ever faced.

Thoughts: I empathize with my younger self, since this is not an easy novel to get through. Even before I consciously acknowledged things like "pace", I could tell that it moved at the speed of a glacier. It wallows in Louis's life before vampirism and those early days with Lestat for entirely too long, and Louis isn't the most exciting of narrators. He spends most of his time staring at things with his cool vampire eyes and hating himself for being a killer. In hindsight, maybe this is what the world of vampire fiction needed to spur it on its way to Twilight, TrueBlood, and The Vampire Diaries. Interview is the mother of all of them, and it's perhaps the first time we're given the opportunity to understand them, to see the story from their perspective. However, there's no mistaking the fact that Rice's vampires are still monsters who kill innocents every night. A vampire narrator who regrets the blood he spills might be the necessary middle-ground between remorseless monster Dracula and vampire love interest Stefan Salvatore. The story doesn't really pick up until Claudia joins them, and her love for Louis is matched only by her hatred of Lestat. Unlike the directionless Louis, Claudia has agency, and her ruthless efforts to achieve her goals (kill Lestat, find other vampires) prompt the story forward.

I like the characters more in theory than on the page. It's difficult to see how Lestat turns out to be the main character for much of the series, since he's painted mostly as a villain in this story. He's a trashcan fire with a gleeful disregard for human life, but he's not without depth or regret when it comes to his family. Claudia's situation is fascinating as she struggles to come to terms with the fact that she'll never age, and her bitterness makes her even colder and more ruthless than Lestat. Louis is more difficult. His whining, brooding, and pointless spirals of introspection (that far too frequently disrupt the narrative for no apparent reason) are difficult to get past. (Sorry, Lestat momentarily took over my keyboard?) His devotion to Claudia is probably the most interesting thing about him. I'm about 90% sure that none of the vampires in this book are sexual, otherwise it would lead to some seriously questionable moments between Louis and Claudia, as well as a young human boy later on. He keeps using the word "lover" to refer to her, and I'm like... not literally, right? ...Right? On the other hand, two gay vampire dads raising their vampire daughter is probably the cutest image in the book. I can see why LGBTQ fans latched onto the series, but Lestat and Louis's relationship is one aspect I wish we'd seen more developed. If it's there, it's almost all subtext.

While the title states plainly that there's an interview, I was expecting it as a framing story, perhaps in the first and last chapters where we see Louis with the unnamed listener. To my dismay, the entirety of the novel is the interview, with frequent interruptions from the boy and side commentary by Louis. Literally all the narrative is dialogue of him speaking. These asides add nothing to the story and contribute to its already slow pace. The world-building could also use some work, but that's in part due to Lestat's insistence on secrecy. We know very little about vampires--what can kill them, what powers they might have--because Lestat won't tell Louis or Claudia anything. Whatever we learn about them, we learn by seeing it happen rather than having it explained, and it's frustrating. I have so much sympathy for Claudia when she dumps that diva bitch into a swamp.

The last fifth of the novel gets extremely tense, and if I hadn't already seen the movie, I think I would have been more furious about the outcome. Like the boy recording the story, I can't help feeling that it doesn't/can't end like that. Louis is finally moved to action for the first time in the novel, but I have misgivings about his motivation for that. On a character level, it's utterly justified and even kind of satisfying, but I'll go into that more after the spoilers. While the ending provides closure on Louis's story, it's somewhat open-ended for the rest of the cast. I didn't totally enjoy this book (and, indeed, in the middle I despaired of getting through it), but I'm planning to read at least one or two more in the series before I make up my mind whether to finish it.

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS. TURN BACK BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

I suspect I would have been bawling at Claudia's death if I hadn't been expecting it. Like everything else, it's more immediate and suspenseful in the film than the novel, since Louis isn't actually there for it. I dislike the fact that Louis's character development is motivated by the death of the only female character in the novel though. Women have been dying in fiction to motivate men's personal growth for centuries, and I was expecting better for Claudia, who's such a powerhouse otherwise. The idea that Armand thought Louis could eventually forgive him for her death is laughable; he clearly doesn't know his vampire companion very well or seriously underestimated the bond they had. I’m looking forward to Armand having his own book about as much as I’m looking forward to re-reading the dreaded Memnoch the Devil, assuming I get that far.