#undertale theory i guess? More like analysis but whatever

[0m3g45n1p3r4lph4]

2 for the nosy ask game

2: What are you obsessed with right now?

Short answer is always gonna be Bionicle lmao. As other obsessions come and go, my Bionicle obsession has consumed me eternally. I spend so much of my day trying to continue the dream and so much of my night dreaming of what I could make of it, physically or digitally. I've scared people by showing them my shelf before.

But on a more recent scale? I guess Undertale/Deltarune, specifically whatever the fuck is going on with Gaster. It scratches an itch that's been in my mind ever since I learned about MissingNo and other creepypasta-ish mysteries within games, and I'm really looking forward to finally sharing these games with my GF. I know she's not big on analysis and theory crafting (aside from one specific thing) but hopefully I'll still be able to convey why this random stuff that 99% of players will never see in game and has no bearing on the base plot of Undertale is deeply important to the grander narrative and especially metanarritive themes of these games. Holy fuck I can't wait for Deltarune Chapter 3. I've watched hour long videos analyzing every track between both games to see how likely it is to be connected to this mysterious fucker of which we don't have a definitive appearance for.

I should post about that more.

Thanks for the ask!

[weaselandfriends]

Hymnstoke XIII

Have you heard the story of bladekindEyewear the Blind?

In infinite folly, this man strapped knives to his eyeballs, depriving himself of sight. Nonetheless he was known as the wisest man in Homestuck Tumblr, with a wicked pack of classpect analyses. As Homestuck progressed through its lengthy sixth act, he developed a wide sleight of theories as to how it would end and what it would mean when it ended that way, focused most famously on each character's SBURB class and aspect (classpect for portmanteau).

When Homestuck ended, and then ended a second time, he turned out to be wrong.

In a recent post, he made this comment about his wrongness:

BlastYoBoots  04/26/2019:  part of why all my theories were wrong is that they were arrogant and misguided and just all-around regrettable and I thought I "knew" what Andrew morally wanted out of a story when he wasn't after the same thing at all

I bring this tale to your attention not to drag our Sosostris through the mud. In fact, I'd say he's unduly harsh on himself here. He may indeed have had a decent grasp of Hussie's moral purposes regarding Homestuck—in 2013. It has been a long six years since then, during which Hussie followed in the footsteps of other noted New England authors J.D. Salinger and Thomas Pynchon and vanished off the face of the planet. It would be fair to theorize that what Hussie "wanted" out of Homestuck changed considerably in those years. And the truth is, because Hussie has disappeared so utterly, any illusion of knowing his "moral" goals has completely dissipated. It's not even clear at this point how much of the Epilogues he wrote. What statements can possibly be made about authorial intent outside of baseless conjecture?

Mr. Eyewear had the unfortunate position of writing critical analysis of a work that was not yet finished, a position not often imitated by critics throughout the ages. It's relatively easy to look at a work by a long-dead author and make some grand, sweeping statement that "this is what it means." Because the author is literally dead, Death of the Author becomes much less controversial to apply. Even now, after the dust has settled, a new installment of Homestuck may unexpectedly arrive that obliterates any previous critical insight on what Homestuck "meant." Homestuck is ostensibly over, but the Epilogues left plenty of room for continuation.

Someone who read the previous Hymnstoke installments came to me and said (paraphrased), "Do you really think Hussie knows anything about Gnosticism? It's far more likely he googled it and used a few names here and there to sound smart." Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be his modus operandi for the Pale Fire and Waste Land quotes I wrote so lengthily on in previous Hymnstokes as well. Wouldn't it make so much sense if Hussie googled "Literary quotes about April" and put in the Waste Land quote without ever having read the poem, without understanding its historical or literary context?

Would it matter?

Hussie may or may not be ignorant of literary history, or his own literary moment. In that Stanford interview he flatly denied any knowledge of "post-irony." But the author's ignorance doesn't excuse the work from the world. Homestuck itself is rapidly becoming a historical work, fading from the immediate cultural consciousness. Yet it has left a mark. How many works will be created in the coming years that draw heavy inspiration from Undertale, which itself was heavily inspired by Homestuck? And if we take Homestuck's most explicit inspiration to be Earthbound, what works inspired Earthbound? What works inspired the works that inspired Earthbound?

Whether Hussie knows what DFW stands for or not is inconsequential. Homestuck is not a work in a vacuum, neither the beginning nor the end. Con Air, the Greek Zodiac, Insane Clown Posse—whether the reader knows what those things are doesn't matter within the space of Homestuck, because Homestuck invented new meaning out of them all. Whether Hussie, the author, knew what Gnosticism, post-postmodernism, or Dadaism were—I would argue that is similarly inconsequential. Homestuck repurposed all of those -isms, either knowingly or unknowingly, into something new. It is the act of repurposing that is the most important part, not whatever those things were before.

So bladekindEyewear observed Homestuck through the lenses of knives strapped to his eyes. From that perspective, he conceived of what the facts (the text of Homestuck) "meant." I'll also be looking at Homestuck through a certain lens. Neither lens is the same as Hussie's lens. No lens except Hussie's can be Hussie's lens: that is something the postmodernists realized, that "truth" was fragmentary and differed from person to person. Perhaps even different within each person; the Hussie of 2013 may have a different lens than the Hussie of 2019. Put succinctly: No absolute truth exists.

But Homestuck, I feel, moves beyond the problems proposed by postmodernism. In Homestuck, differing lenses, even completely opposite lenses like "irony" and "sincerity," "science" and "magic," "time" and "space," or "author" and "reader" (as seen in the Epilogues) become blurred, indistinguishable, ultimately reconciled as essentially the same thing. It's that reconciliation that I think is Homestuck's most meaty—or candiey—thematic component.

With that in mind, let's continue.

What is under the rug is much worse than any trap you can imagine.

It is a member of a species that you do not recognize, with a ghastly furred upper lip.

I don't even know who this is. Jeff Foxworthy? I guess I might not be a redneck.

Soon these lugs will learn to show you some respect. You made this town what it is after all. Wasn't nothin' but a bunch of dust and rocks before you got here.

Okay. I was right. I knew it, all along when I was reading the Epilogues I knew something was off. I felt certain, and now it's been confirmed for me.

Homestuck does not use smart apostrophes, while the Epilogues did.

For those not in the know, a smart apostrophe is curved based on the text that comes around it, like so: ’

A regular apostrophe, by comparison, is not curved: '

As you can see in the quoted text, Homestuck proper uses your regular dumb apostrophes. Which is good, because smart apostrophes are the devil. They frequently get slanted the wrong direction and conflict aesthetically with Homestuck's monospaced, geometric Courier font. Yet all throughout the Epilogues, smart apostrophes are used. It drove me insane. I hate those things.

Can't overthink this time stuff.

I guess I should actually talk about the Intermission. Internally, it's pretty straightforward, borrowing liberally from Problem Sleuth. But what exactly is its purpose? Yes, on a purely plot level, elements of the Intermission return in Act 5. Spades Slick remains a character who exists all the way until Collide, although he is one of the unfortunate casualties of Act 6's awful ending and is too dead to get any kind of relevancy redemption in the Epilogues, unlike similarly extraneous Act 6 characters Jane and Jake.

Fundamentally, then, the relevance of the Intermission extends only as far as Cascade, with elements malingering longer but never amounting to anything new. Many things will extend only as far as Cascade, which eventually becomes Homestuck's midpoint. In earlier Hymnstokes, I mentioned a few times that I didn't think I had much to say about Act 5. I said that because, while Act 5 is impressive from a technical standpoint, it's a lot less dense in meaning compared to early Homestuck or Act 6. It functions a lot like a machine with many perfectly-placed parts (or rather, parts that were retroactively made to look perfectly placed, depending on how improvisational you think Hussie wrote) that slot together like a machine, rifle, or clock to create a flawless cascade of storytelling. I'll talk more about this kind of "clockwork storytelling" when I actually get to Act 5, but for now one might consider the entire Intermission to be one of those perfectly-placed pieces, and the Spades Slick storyline culminates in Cascade to slot alongside the other pieces in a satisfying way.

One might also interpret the Intermission as a primer for certain elements that will become important in Homestuck proper, such as the aforementioned "time stuff" that gets its first real exploration here before becoming a convoluted but finely-wrought entanglement in Acts 4 and 5. Toss in vague foreshadowing to Lord English and the Intermission's existence is at least purposeful, regardless of whether one considers it necessary.

But what about structurally? I mentioned in the previous Hymnstoke that the Intermission is similar to Act 5 Act 1 and Act 6 Act 1 in that it dramatically downscales the tension, introduces a slew of new characters, and shakes up the tone of the story. Each of these three parts are nostalgic for "Old Homestuck," the Homestuck that is more like Problem Sleuth, and they feature many text commands and faffery like what you see in Act 1. By juxtaposition, then, each emphasizes how far Homestuck has developed across its run, and the differences only become more striking each successive iteration.

The Intermission is probably the fragmenting point. In Homestuck proper, there are no more kids to introduce. John, Rose, Dave, Jade, for each of them we've cycled through the database-structured INTERESTS and INSTRUMENTS and WEIRD PARENTAL FIGURES. Bit by bit that kind of content will vanish in favor of a new sort of storytelling, and the Intermission is where it becomes obvious that this is happening. Jade's introduction already subverted most of the established tropes, and the Intermission reads like a parody of them, with the Midnight Crew's set of traits being plaintively ridiculous (each keeping a different kind of candy in their backup hat, each having a different kind of smutty material, et cetera). Act 5 Act 1 will also be parodic in its approach to these database traits, but I think in a less effective way, as the differences between the kids and the trolls are less extreme than the differences between the kids and the Midnight Crew. Furthermore, the Intermission really drives the nail into the coffin of Problem Sleuth, severing Homestuck finally from its predecessor. Act 6 Act 1, by comparison, is more of a wistful yearning for Act 1 than any kind of new take—which might itself be meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

Still, it might come in handy down the road. Lord English is supposedly indestructible. He's rumored to be killable only through a number of glitches and exploits in spacetime. The doll may ultimately help you work the system if it comes to that.

This line, along with the way Problem Sleuth ended, was probably the primary driver that led to people expecting a final boss fight with Lord English on par with the one with Mobster Kingpin. Although the Epilogues were a fantastic ending, it's still underwhelming to think about just how poorly-conceived Collide and Act 7 turned out to be. Of course, the Problem Sleuth sort of ending is definitely more of a "clockwork" storytelling style, and Act 6, as has become clear by now, has a much different style.

Dirk, the ultimate inheritor of the clockwork style—he specifically describes storytelling in terms of machines—has as one of his INTERESTS robotics and technology. Lord English, likewise, is surrounded by a clockwork motif. Of course, these characters will eventually become explicitly linked via the method of Lord English's creation. But unlike many other INTERESTS, which turn out to be irrelevant, this machinery fascination ties in to Homestuck's final thematic dichotomy. But more on that when we reach the Epilogues.

29/1000 CLOCKS DESTROYED

I guess we know what side of the dichotomy Spades is on.

This is the same calendar Dirk has in his apartment in Act 6. I remember I once had this theory that the Midnight Crew would be reunited at the end of Homestuck even though the B2 Hegemonic Brute was dead because it would be revealed that Hearts Boxcars was still in Dirk's calendar and would come out riding Dirk's mini Maplehoof.

I don't know why I had this oddly specific theory, and it was probably obvious it wouldn't happen.

And thus ends the intermission, with an eye toward the next bizarre deviation in the storyline (Act 5 Act 1).

It's been awhile since I last read Homestuck. My memory of Act 4 is dodgy, so I might actually stumble upon something new. But as I mentioned earlier, the Intermission is the big, obvious breakpoint between the old, Problem Sleuth style of Homestuck and the new, clockwork style. The database-driven character creation will gradually fall away (minus a parodic revival in Act 5 Act 1) and narrative elements will become more consistently introduced with an eye specifically toward Cascade. For many people, this is when Homestuck starts to "get good," and I think it's because there's something innately satisfying about a finely-crafted machine slotting into place. There is a kind of intrinsic beauty about it, art for art's sake if you will, and that is also what seems to draw Dirk toward it.

But more next time.

[bublp0pr]

UT time rant

i realised that i never actually discussed my rantings about undertale’s time vagueness, did i? Ohhhhh yessss. This is going to be a fun waste of an hour (insane and evil laughter with conveniently timed thunderstorm in the distance)

Where do i even start?

201X

Ok. How about i start with something obvious? 201X. What the hell does that even MEAN? It’s genius on Toby’s part. Having released the game in a year whose first 3 digits are 201, we can interpret it to just mean some year within the decade beginning in 2010 and ending before 2020. But if someone was dedicated enough to the game to still be playing it all those years later in say 2021, then there’s a whole plethora of choices available to you to justify how you intend on interpreting it. How about i break some of them down? 

Well, the most simple view would be to just assume that the date is still maintains that meaning - that Chara fell into Mt Ebott within the previous decade under my hypothetical example. But if we’re letting this date exist in a time other than the present then why stop there? Everything that occurs within the game to give us some sort of indication of a time reference is circumstantial because the game is set some indefinite time AFTER 201X with Chara falling. 

Now, that being said there are likely some arguments to be made for certain objects we know existed at the same time as Chara - such as a video camera. BUT- and here’s another BIG THING we need to consider here, how do you know that monsters weren’t just more technologically advanced than humans? Look at the technology introduced in the game! The ramifications of a trans-dimensional box in your PHONE! A mass geothermal power system placed directly in the CORE of everyone’s city but that is SO SAFE that no one even worries about it! Technology that literally operates in tandem with MAGIC -by which i mean THE ESSENCE MANIPULATED BY THE SOUL ITSLEF- in some circumstances! This is startlingly advanced stuff. If we assume that monsters WERE more advanced than humans, then do we really have ANY reference to what time era Chara existed in on the surface? My opinion is no. You could argue that were it the case that Chara existed in a time that significantly predated certain concepts than integration with a society who did have this stuff would be difficult but- and again, TIME STUFF TOBY! TIMEEEEE- we have no idea how long Chara stayed with the Dreemurs before they died. So things like the video camera could have been completely foreign to them BEFORE they fell and they just slowly learnt about them down in the mountain. 

‘But wait!’ I hear myself saying because i’m not presumptuous enough to assume anyone is actually going to read this and ask this question lol. ‘The 201 still needs to mean SOMETHING though right? That narrows down possible dates a little...’ Ohoho I’d be wrong. First: the date could be set in the past, in like the year 201 AD, 201 BC or any year within the decade 2020-2010 BC. OR it could be set in the past/present/future of 2010-2020 AD. Second: the X is a vague substitution that, without context can mean ANYTHING. That means it can mean more than one digit which makes the possible date as infinite as the possible values of X (i’m tempted to say more infinite because obviously there’s an AD and BC version for each value but that’s not how infinity works. Figured i’d say so for perspective anyway). Third: since when was 201X a year???? Take another look at that moment in the opening menu flashback, because i assure you that the vague number below the picture of a mountain has NO OTHER INDICATION TOWARDS ITS MEANING WHATSOEVER. 201X could be a day and month, it could be a month and year, heck 201X could just as easily be the geographical location of the mountain by some reference standard. X stand to mean ANYTHING AT ALL. It doesn’t have to be a number.

Is your mind sufficiently blown yet? Because there’s a few other possibilities i haven’t even dared to go into yet. We can’t say with 100% accuracy haha but it’s a good bet that Undertale isn’t actually the reality of our history. Which makes the game a work of FICTION within a FICTIONAL universe. With that comes creative freedom in how time works in general! How society came to agree to understand, measure and interpret time; how history uses time as a reference to the present etc. And even worse, there isn’t even enough evidence to say that it’s set in a real world setting either in terms of humanity. History could be completely different! So would having a date really mean anything to us?! Ok, ridiculous stuff aside, let’s assume that this is the real world again. So what if the date was how monsters measured time instead of us? Do they measure time the same way? Maybe they’re measuring from when they were trapped underground. How would we know?! 

Final conundrum (and this one was actually brought to my attention by a really good web comic actually) : what if the use of determination to reset time didn’t apply to the outside world? The interpretations of this piece of information alone are vast, like the underground exisiting in a closed time loop or having a separate line of time running parallel to the surface that becomes more delayed with each reload or reset. However you consider it, it makes using time from one world not relatively correct to using time in another. (We are not given evidence that Chara actually ever does use determination to alter time within their life underground but there is evidence to suggest use of resetting occurring because of the 6 souls which sufficiently messes us up if we want to use the date as any sort of reference for anything)

So basically, giving us the 4 characters 201X at the start of the game might as well mean nothing to us.

Lengths of time between events

Ok. I want to say now that 201X is the ONLY time we’re ever given any date. So the fact we can’t even use that means we have no idea exactly when anything happened. But that doesn’t matter so much right? I mean, who cares as long as you can follow the stretch of time the game actually does exist in. Right? Hahahahahahaha. 

I’m just going to list all the lengths of time we DON’T know in the game. Take a minute to think over each one.

How long was the war between humans and monsters?

How long did monsters exist underground before the first human came?

How long did Chara stay underground before they decided on the plan with Asriel?

How long after Chara made plan with Asriel did they actually go through with it? For all we know they could’ve been older when they actually carried it out. (not that OLDER means anything when we don’t know how old they were when they made the plan lol. But atleast we knew they were kids then)

How did it take after Asriel died for Toriel to leave Asgore and go to the ruins? Or, to pose a better question, how long had Toriel been in the ruins when Frisk eventually came around?

How long after Asriel’s death did the next human arrive in the underground?

What sort of lengths of time were there between each human falling underground?

How long did each human spend in the underground before Asgore eventually killed them?

How long after Asriel’s death did Alphys inject enough determination into his flower to awaken Flowey?

Depending on the answer to that last question, did Flowey actually exist as the same time as any of the humans who fell? Or was Frisk the first they met? (i’m not counting Chara obviously)

As a rough estimate, how many resets do you reckon Flowey went through before Frisk came in and messed with that?

Unless you think about one of the theories about surface time and underground time not occurring exactly simultaneously because of determination tampering with things, obviously waiting for Frisk had been the longest run Flowey had ever done. How long had he had to wait in that run before they fell? [This one i find really interesting because it gives me an idea of how long he spent playing in each run normally before he would reset too]

How long did it take for Frisk to go through the underground? Is that length of time the same between pacifist and genocide timelines? Can we use real game time as a reference or not?

How long had Napstablook been abandoned by Mettaton for when frisk fell?

How long did it take for Alphys to conduct the amalgamate research?

For how long had Alphys been keeping the amalgamates secret from their families when Frisk fell?

For how long has Papyrus been training under Undyne?

How long has Undyne been head of the Royal Guard?

Are you thoroughly concerned about how little you know about the game yet? These are all things that would give more meaning to the storyline as well. Now, on some of these points you might think, well obviously we can use lifespan as a reference. BUT WE CAN’T. Because

We don’t know a damn about monster life spans

The only info we’re given is based on boss monsters. And that conveniently tells us that THEY DON’T AGE WHEN THEY DON’T HAVE LIVING CHILDREN. And since Asriel is dead, well we have nothing to work with. What really messes me up though is that the only constants we know for sure about across the two points in time, Chara’s and Frisk falling, is Asgore, Toriel and Gerson. Asgore and Toriel teach us nothing because THEY DON’T AGE. With Gerson aswell you might think haha i’ve got this cracked until you realise you have no idea how long a monster’s life span is, how long it takes a monster to reach old age and exactly what stage of aging Gerson is at. May i point out that NONE of the other monsters were mentioned?! That means that for all we know they weren’t born yet. But we have no idea. Were most of the monsters we know alive during the war? I’d have to say probably not but at the same time i have no substantial evidence either way. Another down side of this is that we don’t know how old any monster is in the game, how old the monsters are relative to eachother (like, is sans older than papyrus for example? we don’t know) and how old monsters are relative to Frisk. Because it puts an entirely new spin on everything if the only reason Frisk was called kid and my child was because they were younger than 100, for example, which was the age bracket of a child in their eyes. But we also don’t know Frisk’s age so who the hell knows anything? 

Let’s sum this up

The point of this game is that we don’t have reference for ANYTHING so that we can fill in the details our self. It gives a fan infinite freedom to customise the experience however they want. What this has resulted in is a large community of differing opinions about everything, with everything being technically valid which some consider bad but i just consider fascinating. It’s the best of all worlds really. I hate how vague things are at times when i want a canonically pure origin point for an argument, but i really shouldn’t complain. It’s beautifully done to be honest. And if you never asked these questions you’d never even know how sneaky it is. That’s how good it is. 

So yeah. Time. Undertale seems to have an issue with it. 

[agentravensong]

Why Frisk, Chara, & Kris Being Non-Binary Is More Than Just a Headcanon

An UnderTale/DeltaRune Analysis

Since DeltaRune came out, I’ve been sucked right back into the Undertale fandom. Unfortunately, while I’ve seen tons of great fanart and interesting theories relating to the game, it seems the introduction of a third playable human character who isn’t explicitly male or female has also somewhat re-sparked the debate about whether the genders of Frisk, Chara, and now Kris are up to the player’s interpretation. 

On one side, you have people saying to just respect everyone’s headcanons about these characters, down to deciding their pronouns. On the other, you have people saying the three characters being non-binary is part of their thematic purpose in the games, on top of being positive canon representation for a rarely recognized group.

I fall into the latter camp, and this post will explain why. (WARNING: long and text-heavy post)

NOTE: This post was written in late 2018. Since then, I have made an updated version with additional points in Google Docs, which I then used as the script for a YouTube video. As such, this post should be considered an incomplete, though still sound, version of my argument. If you have the time, rather than continuing to read this post, please click the above link(s) to read the Google Doc and/or watch the video for a full understanding of the topic.

If you find yourself repeatedly coming back to this post for whatever reason, remember that my ask box is always open! I’d be more than happy to clarify my position :D

A quick definition to start us off: if a person is “non-binary”, it means that a person doesn’t see their gender as being exclusively male or female. Many non-binary people prefer to be referred to by the pronouns “they/them/theirs” instead of “he/him/his” or “she/her/hers”, since “they” is already a gender neutral pronoun.

 Also, just in case someone doesn’t understand this, a person’s gender identity is not necessarily related to who they are romantically or sexually interested in.

This post will be split into six sections of unequal length, with the focus progressing from literally interpreting the text to Toby’s intentions and the outside impact of having these characters be non-binary.

1. The basics: All 3 characters are referred to exclusively by gender-neutral pronouns in the games.

Let’s go character by character, shall we?

FRISK

It’s admittedly hard to find examples for this, since most of the time people are talking about Frisk in-game, they’ll be talking directly to them in second person. However, while looking through screenshots provided by the UnderTale Text Project, I found these:

Thank you, Alphys!

EDIT: Hey look, a more obvious example I somehow forgot about!

CHARA

All of the following quotes come from the character Chara was supposedly closest to in the entire Underground, Asriel. As you read, think about this: if Chara’s preferred pronouns were anything other than they/them, why would Asriel not use their correct pronouns here?

“Chara hated humanity. Why they did, they never talked about it. But they felt very strongly about that.”

“When Chara and I combined our souls together, the control over our body was actually split between us. They were the one who picked up their own empty body. And then, when we got to the village, they were the one who wanted... to use our full power.”

I’ve seen some people take Flowey’s mentions of Toriel in his New Home Genocide monologue to be confirmation that Chara goes by “she/her”, since he doesn’t refer to Toriel by name... even though Chara wouldn’t have been awake at that time, and when Flowey DOES talk about Chara in this monologue, it’s in second person, since he believes YOU are his old best friend. This misconception isn’t common, especially these days, but I figured it was worth addressing.

KRIS

Out of the three humans, I think Kris is the one who people are most likely to associate with a specific gender based on their name. But despite the theory videos and such you may have seen where people referred to Kris as “he”, this is not reflected anywhere in-game.

(Got these screenshots of DeltaRune’s code from this tumblr post) 

The lines in the first photo are what Susie says when she’s trying to break Kris and Ralsei out of prison, and you have the option to suggest to her which way to go. The second example. according to Kris’ page on the DeltaRune fandom wiki, is said by Ralsei earlier in the game, if you do not run to complete the clock puzzle to open the door right after reuniting with Susie. Unlike the first example, it is clear in this case that Kris is the only one being referred to. 

I remember seeing someone somewhere argue that Susie and Ralsei don’t know Kris well enough to know their “proper” pronouns. When it comes to Ralsei, I can see that argument... but did you notice that he knows both Kris and Susie’s names without asking? It seems he knows more than he lets on... and while Susie certainly wasn’t friends with Kris before this, the fact that they’re in the same class is enough for me to think she would have heard Kris be referred to by their preferred pronouns at least in passing by this point.

And that’s it. Frisk, Chara, and Kris are never referred to by other pronouns... with, admittedly, one exception:

Why does Chara use “it” for themself here? If I had to guess, it’s likely a combination of them being a ghost of their former self without a soul of their own (Flowey’s shown us how much your personality and sense of self is tied to having a SOUL) and the corruption from the Genocide run (remember that gaining LOVE affects a person’s mentality). They see themself as a demon, no longer a person. Whether that’s literally true to any extent or just how they feel after everything they’ve been through doesn’t really matter, I just wanted to cover this point before anyone else could bring it up. It’s not like it makes them not non-binary or anything.

To be clear, not all non-binary people go exclusively by they/them pronouns. Some prefer to go by masculine or feminine pronouns for their own reasons; some go by “neo-pronouns”, ones invented specifically for those who identify as non-binary; and some people go by more than one set of pronouns. However, in the case of Frisk, Chara, and Kris specifically, the fact that they only go by they/them pronouns makes them non-binary, and using any other pronouns for them would be incorrect (even if you have them go by they/them AND he/him or she/her).

Really, that should be enough to prove that the three humans being non-binary is canon. After all, you never have any of the other major characters in Undertale or DeltaRune explicitly state “I’m a girl” or “I’m a boy”. We know their genders because of the pronouns everyone refers to them by. Sure you’ll see gender-bends of those characters, but no one ever claims that those are on the same level of validity when it comes to canon as the actual canon.

But I know that isn’t enough for the people who came into this post disagreeing with the premise, so let’s actually get to countering some of their arguments, shall we? The main argument, of course, is that the humans’ are all meant for the Player to at least partially craft identifies for, including deciding which pronouns they use. But first...

2. Small Fish First: Other characters who are obviously not meant to be self-inserts use gender neutral pronouns.

...I want to cover the easier to counter idea that they/them pronouns are meant to just be, for lack of a better term, “placeholders”; the pronouns you use when you don’t know a person’s gender, rather than being valid permanent pronouns on their own.

If this were true in the case of Undertale and DeltaRune, you’d expect the humans to be the only ones referred to by these pronouns. They’re the ones whose identities are left ambiguous so the Player can project onto them, right?

But that couldn’t be father from the truth. In fact, the majority of the monsters you encounter in both games are referred to with gender-neutral pronouns (they/them and/or it), if any pronouns at all.

Now one might say, “But none of those monsters are really meant to be individual characters.” I get why you’d think that. But you’re forgetting at least one person...

Yup, Napstablook, despite what many fans have assumed from what I’ve seen, does not go by he/him pronouns, but they/them. And it’s not just in the narration either. Undyne does too in certain phone calls with Papyrus. ...Then again, she barely knows Napsta, and we see in DeltaRune that she defaults to they/them when talking about people whose gender she doesn’t know (specifically in that game, Alphys). 

But that isn’t my last example. One of the few people who was ever close to Napsta was Mettaton (before he became a celebrity). And what does Mettaton say after Blooky calls in to his final show?

What this proves is that Toby recognizes they/them pronouns as valid for an individual in his work, which I hope makes buying that he purposefully made all three humans canonically non-binary easier for skeptics to swallow (we’ll get back to whether he DID purposefully do that later).

But I’ll acknowledge that there IS a difference between the three humans and the other characters in the games who use they/them, due to their relationship with you as the Player. So with that tangent out of the way, time to diffuse the “everyone can have their own headcanons about the kids’ genders” argument.

3. Thematic Context: All 3 humans have moments of asserting their agency, and part of the game’s subtext is how they each relate to the Player, rather than them all being blank slates.

Again, we’ll go character by character.

FRISK

This section is, admittedly, the one with the least evidence compared to the rest. But here’s what we have, and it’s pretty obvious:

After this moment, as was shown earlier, the other monsters know Frisk’s name and will refer to Frisk in the third person with they/them pronouns. Now, consider this: If Frisk used other pronouns, wouldn’t they have corrected the monsters here? Sure Frisk don’t talk without being prompting much throughout most of the game, but considering how they just shared their name, something equally as personal as their pronouns, I don’t think it would feel too out of place here.

Alternatively, if Frisk’s gender was up to the Player’s interpretation, the Player could have been given a prompt to correct the other characters with the “proper” pronouns for Frisk. You could argue it would be pointless this late into the game, but couldn’t that logic apply to the reveal of Frisk’s name as well? In this case, the lack of such a moment speaks more to me than having such a moment would.

Now, I totally get why people would project onto Frisk up to this point in the narrative, including assigning them different pronouns. It wouldn’t be a plot twist otherwise. Even their design seems to lend to that, with the unrealistic bright yellow skin Legos and emojis have to make them more race-neutral, and their emotionless, unchanging facial expression (though it’s worth considering that most of the other character’s overworld sprites don’t change expression much either; I’m pretty sure Alphys’ overworld sprite keeps her dopey smile even when she’s talking about the depths of her depression and failure at the end of the True Lab section). And this actually works to UnderTale’s benefit through most of the game, making the connections you forge with the monsters feel more personal.

The significance of this moment is that it asks the Player to be willing to change their perspective. Throughout the True Pacifist run, you help Frisk to change the mindsets of the characters you come across; this is most obvious with Undyne, who has been raised to see all humans as the enemy, but comes to admit that at least “some humans are OK, I guess” after befriending you. Along the way, you learn that there’s more to these monsters than first impressions may suggest (again, Undyne being a great example). Now, the game is asking you to look deeper one more time, and presenting you with the challenge you’ve posed to all the other major characters: are you willing to recognize Frisk’s autonomy; to understand there is more to this person than you first saw?

EDIT: Hey, remember that screenshot from earlier where Flowey asks you to “let Frisk live their life”? He’s literally asking you to let Frisk be free and truly themself, rather than resetting and taking control of them again. So there’s some more food for thought.

CHARA

While you are the one who names Chara (the reason for which will be considered in the fourth section of this post), consider these points:

1. If the purpose of Chara’s entire character was meant to be just a reflection of you as the Player, then why give them a “true name” at all?

2. Chara’s backstory is integral to the setup of UnderTale’s plot, and provides a good amount of hints at their original personality, easily making them less of a “blank slate” for the Player to project onto than Frisk.

3. Chara makes a clear distinction between the Player and themself in their monologues at the end of the Genocide route. In case you forgot, here are some reminders.

First meeting:

“Your power awakened me from death.”

“My ‘human soul’, my ‘Determination’; they were not mine, but YOURS.”

“With your guidance, I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.”

“Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong.”

If you agree to ERASE the world: “You are a great partner.”

In the abyss:

“Interesting. You want to go back.”

“You want to go back to the world you destroyed.”

“It was you who pushed everything to its edge. It was you who lead the world to its destruction.”

“But you cannot accept that. You think you are above consequences.”

“Perhaps, we can reach a compromise. You still have something I want.”

“Then, it is agreed. You will give me your SOUL.”

Second meeting:

“You and I are not the same, are we?”

“This SOUL resonates with a strange feeling... You are wracked with a perverted sentimentality. ...I cannot understand these feelings any longer.”

“I feel obligated to suggest: should you choose to create this world once more, another path would be better suited.”

To say there is no connection between Chara and the Player would be unfair. I mean, if they hated humans their whole life, why do they end up taking out that rage on the monsters, the ones who were actually kind to them, in the Genocide run? Like Chara says themself, you guide them, teaching them definitively that “in this world, it’s kill or be killed”; and the influence you have on them is much more obvious if you subscribe to the Narrator Chara theory (but that’s a whole other can of worms).

Like with Frisk, Chara presents the Player a challenge, but in a more subtle way: can you recognize that YOU are at fault, rather than blaming your actions on a damaged kid who learns from your example and never got the chance to grow beyond their mistakes? And part of meeting that challenge is recognizing that Chara is, or at least used to be, their own whole person.

KRIS

Now we get to the really fun part. DeltaRune as a whole seems to be delving even deeper and more explicitly into the relationship between the playable character as an unwilling vessel and the actual Player than Undertale did. Outside of the prevalent message that “Your choices don’t matter” (which I’m guessing will end up more like the “kill or be killed” of this game rather than DR’s intended final moral), the main evidence towards this is how the game starts.

1. A red soul appears on screen when the unknown speaker (presumably Gaster) asks you if they’ve successfully connected with you. The soul is what you control throughout this sequence. The implication? The SOUL in this game is a manifestation of you as the Player. In fact, considering some of the Chara quotes I mentioned earlier, this could be true of UnderTale as well.

2. You spend time making a vessel, only for it to be discarded, because “No one can choose who they are in this world.” This lack of choice is actually foreshadowed when you choose which legs you prefer, since all but the last choice are the same. The game is pointing out right away how superficial these choices are.

3. The speakers says “Your name is...” and Toriel seemingly finishes the statement by calling out “KRIS!”

The message of points 2 and 3 combined is pretty obvious to me: we don’t get an empty vessel to put ourself and our ideas into in DeltaRune. Kris is NOT an empty vessel; they have an already established backstory and personality, which we get multiple hints at (mostly when going around town at the end of the demo).

The fact that you have to go through this creation process on every new file, even after beating the game, suggests it’s more than just a framing device, but directly tied to the game’s narrative and/or themes in some way. So, let’s keep this scene in mind as we look at Kris’ defining moment at the end of Chapter 1.

In the middle of the night, Kris is wrestling with themself in bed until they fall out. Their walk is very stilted and jerkish, reminiscent of a zombie, or someone possessed.

Kris opens and closes their hand a few times before digging into their body and pulling out their soul, their eyes blank. (Notice how this doesn’t seem to actually leave a hole in their chest or anything? Almost as if the soul was never a part of them in the first place...)

They go to the wagon and harshly YEET the soul into the cage (the flavor text for which mentions it has already seen a few crashes... has something like this happened to Kris before?).

Kris walks back to the middle of the room, as if to purposefully stand in the center of the DeltaRune symbol on the floor, then pulls out a knife from seemingly nowhere, and turns to the camera with a red glow in their eyes.

Now, I totally get why most people will immediately assume that Kris has been possessed by a post-Genocide Chara here. I’m pretty sure the visual similarities between this scene and the one that plays if you choose to stay with Toriel in a soulless pacifist run in UT are intentional.

But remember how we mentioned the red SOUL, at least in DeltaRune, is a manifestation of the Player? This is actually reinforced in this scene, because you’re able to move the SOUL back and forth within the cage.

We’ve been controlling Kris via that SOUL the whole way through the game, and now? Kris is done with us. THIS is their prime moment of agency in Chapter 1 - reclaiming ownership of their own body - and I doubt that it will be their last.

There’s a ton of other stuff I could mention about Kris, like how:

* they had their own save file, which you overwrite at the first save point

* multiple NPCs in the town will comment on Kris seeming more talkative or looking off today, because YOU’RE making them interact with people

* Kris’ ability to play the piano is worse than normal with you controlling them, according to the hospital receptionist

* the narration says Kris feels bitter if you throw away the one possession in their inventory, the Ball of Junk (”bitter” isn’t the emotion one would feel if they did this of their own free will)

or all the hints at Kris’ true personality as an introverted, codependent prankster. But that could be a post in itself. My point is that, if Frisk and Chara’s individualism from the Player was subtle in UnderTale, this is pretty straightforward, if you know where to look.

And if these three humans are all their own characters, then shouldn’t we consider what seemingly little we DO know for sure about them as canon? We all take their names to be canon, so why not their pronouns?

That’s the bulk of the argument done. But when discussing canon, there is one thing that always has to be considered:

4. Can We Know The Creator (Toby Fox)’s Intentions?

Well, not really.

Some may bring up the one tweet where Toby suggested to name the fallen human (Chara) “your own name” as evidence that you ARE meant to project yourself into these characters. 

However, I think you could just as easily argue that doing this ADDS to the impact of when Frisk, the character you physically control, confirms themself to be their own person with their own name, rather than a mold for you to pour yourself into. 

And though Chara does make it clear that they themself as a character are separate from you, the whole Genocide ending monologue does hit harder when the person reprimanding you for their sins, who describes themself as “the feeling you get when your stats increase”, shares your name.

While putting this post together, I came across this interview Toby did about Undertale back in September 2015, and took particular note of this section:

While this technically doesn’t confirm or deny anything either way, how hard would it have been for Toby to say, “Well the protagonist is meant to have their gender be up to the player’s interpretation”? I doubt he would have gotten more backlash for that then he would have for definitively saying that Frisk is MEANT to be non-binary (though I doubt that would have stopped people from making them male or female anyway).

Then again, the article does start with the interviewer saying this:

“I told Toby Fox to skip questions he didn’t find interesting, and boy did he take me at my word.”

So maybe he just didn’t have anything worthwhile to mention.

I can’t say with certainty that Frisk and Chara’s genders were never meant to be up to the Player’s choice, even after what I mentioned in section 2 (and I doubt Toby would want to make a statement on it at this point). Same with Kris, for now.

However, if the rest of DeltaRune ends up going in the direction I suggested in the previous section, I honestly would not be surprised if there’s a moment where Kris confirms they are nonbinary, as a show of agency and individualism akin to Frisk telling Asriel their real name. I wouldn’t really call it a “theory”, and it’s hard to speculate what the other chapters of the game will at all be like based on what relatively little we have... but I wouldn’t have mentioned it here if I didn’t think it had any validity.

5. Why Does This Matter?

Outside of the previously mentioned stuff relating to the games’ themes/messages about choice, agency, and individualism, there’s one big reason: representation.

How many games can you think of where there are any explicitly non-binary characters? How many where that character is a major one, who doesn’t get treated as particularity different from the others just on the basis of the pronouns they use? And how many of those games are even close to the popularity of Undertale in its hayday? Even expanding these questions to media other than just video games won’t net many more results.

For people who are striving for representation, seeing posts like “Just let people have their headcanons :)” can come across as the OP not understanding how much that representation means. Even worse, coming back to the point I made in section 2 of this post, it could be seen as the OP denying that being non-binary is just as real and concrete as being male or female (a problem which more mainstream representation of non-binary people would help solve!).

But don’t just take it from me. After all, as a binary cis girl myself (”cis” meaning not trans), I can’t speak generally for all the trans and non-binary Undertale and Deltarune fans out there. So allow me to link some posts which provide their perspectives:

This first post is from before DeltaRune was released, and mainly focuses on Frisk, but goes in-depth on the topic (and the OP provided me some feedback on my post, so if they see this, thanks!)

I came across this post just while scrolling through the DeltaRune tag about why this stuff matters to non-binary fans.

This post is specifically about how using they/them pronouns for the kids is preferable whether or not it’s literally canon.

Here’s another post from the same person covering some common counter-arguments.

And if the other posts are too long for you to bother reading after going through mine, this one sums up the point in one sentence.

I know some people flinch at the mere mention of the word “representation”. I know that some will argue you shouldn’t need to see representation of a group you belong to in a piece of media in order to be able to relate to the characters and/or feel validated yourself - because I’ve seen people make this argument. But, I mean, I certainly find it easier to relate to characters that I share traits with; that’s just how humans work. It’s probably the main reason why people assign different genders to Frisk, Chara, and Kris in the first place! Besides, who does it hurt to include more diverse characters?

Oh right, there’s the idea that “forcing” creators to include representation is bad for creativity or whatever. Well good thing that’s not what this is about! As far as I know, no one is telling Toby he has to ADD new characters to fulfill a quota; the characters in question (Frisk, Chara, & Kris) already exist in his work. The point of this post is to show that the three of them were MEANT to be non-binary from the start (assuming I provided enough proof to convince you), so people won’t continue to erase that representation. By making them binary cis boys or girls, you’re only taking away from the original text (and giving people more to “complain” about).

Honestly, what does one even have to gain story-wise from assigning different genders to the human kids? I can’t remember a time I saw where making them strictly boys or girls added anything to their characterization or opened up different story possibilities (I’m sure you could could up with a theoretical example, but compared to the endless fanworks that DON’T do that, they hardly make a dent). Speaking beyond just Frisk, Chara, and Kris, characters being non-binary shouldn't affect how you ship them. You can give such characters more overtly masculine or feminine designs/appearances, but still have them be non-binary and go by they/them pronouns (most people don’t naturally look androgynous after all). In a work with voice acting, casting someone with a more masculine or feminine voice to play a non-binary character shouldn’t stop you from portraying the character as non-binary either - just refer to them with the right pronouns! 

And if people who find your work continuously misgender your non-binary characters or ask what their “real” gender is, don’t let them get to you. You don’t need to respond to every such comment, but when you DO respond, clearly state that these characters are non-binary, politely correct the people who refer to those characters by the wrong pronouns, and, if worst comes to worst, block the people who won’t respect that. Before you (using “you” for the rest of this paragraph to refer specifically to my fellow binary cis peeps) can even think to argue “that sounds like too much work” or “it’s not worth the potential controversy”, remember that non-binary people in real life have to deal with this crap far more often than we do, and for them, it’s personal. If they can handle it, why can’t you?

Yes, Frisk, Chara, and Kris are fictional characters, not real people. But more representation of non-binary people in media helps others learn to understand and respect them, both in fiction and in real life. Honestly, it’s beyond time for people to accept that “they/them” aren’t “placeholder pronouns”, and the genders of people who use them aren’t up for others to judge. It’s just who they are, and really, how hard is that to respect?

If nothing else will convince you, think of it this way: if you’re not in the group being affected by a discussion like this, and you don’t care about the people in that group, keeping yourself out of the conversation saves everyone time and energy, without hurting anyone.

6. Conclusion

So, to briefly summarize this essay-length post’s main points:

1. Frisk, Chara, and Kris all go solely by “they/them” in their respective games, so having them go by any other pronouns is technically diverting from canon to the same extent that gender-bending any other character would be, NOT a valid interpretation of the original text. 

2. There are other individual characters in these two games, such as Napstablook, who are referred to by they/them pronouns, even by those who were close to them.

3. The three humans are all shown to be more than just blank slates for the Player to project themself onto, making the stuff which IS definitively said about them (specifically, their names and pronouns) canon parts of their characterization unless directly proven otherwise.

4. We can’t assume Toby’s intentions, but even if he didn’t initially make Frisk, Chara, and Kris gender neutral for the sake of giving non-binary people representation, many people have taken it as that. Thus, seeing others say that the humans’ genders are up for interpretation is interpreted as those people not respecting non-binary identities as valid on their own.

The one other point I can think people might bring up would be the idea that kids as young as Chara or Frisk wouldn’t identify as non-binary because they wouldn’t understand the concept. To that argument, I’d suggest looking up videos about people who realized they were transgender as kids. In general, if there are concepts in this post you didn’t quite get or agree with, research is your friend!

Speaking of which, as this post I came across in the DeltaRune tag yesterday pointed out, fun fact: “non-binary” is an umbrella term that still leaves some slight room for personal interpretation when it comes to the humans’ genders! To use myself as an example, I personally headcanon Chara as firmly agender, Kris as a a demi-boy (someone who only partially sees themself as male), and Frisk as genderfluid (meaning that their sense of gender regularly changes). However, despite the nuances in their gender identities, I only have them go by they/them pronouns, their canon ones, in my fanworks. Doing otherwise not only goes against canon, but can be considered misgendering, and thus should be avoided.

This doesn’t mean that you can’t make up ANYTHING about what Chara, Frisk, and Kris are like either. People have plenty of headcanons about the backstories and other quirks of characters like Sans, Undyne, Mettaton - basically the whole cast of both games - and there’s nothing stopping you from doing that for the human kids. I certainly have my own ideas of what Chara and Frisk’s lives were like before they fell into the Underground. The difference is that those are speculating on things not outright said in canon. But Frisk, Chara, and Kris going by they/them pronouns IS canon, and should be respected as such.

At the end of the day, neither I nor anyone else (not even Toby) can outright stop people from having their opinions about these fictional characters. But since I had some free time this weekend, I figured I could take a stand for something I care about relating to a fandom I’ve emerged myself in for the past few years. My main hope in making this post is that you’ll understand why certain people disagree with the seemingly righteous stance of “It’s all up to interpretation, just let people do what they want!”. And if you knew nothing about non-binary identities before, hopefully this was educational for you!

If you have any remaining questions or suggestions relating to this post, feel free to reblog with your feedback or send me an ask. Until then, this is Agent Raven, signing off.

[nighttimepixels]

on deltarune

Okay, holy hell, I can’t start without saying that, quite frankly:

I loved it.

The music, the visuals, the new characters, the evolution of the battle style - it still retained so much of what I loved about Undertale, yet pushed further/evolved to suit this game.

I was nervous, admittedly, at the first battle - honestly, I’ve never liked team management RPGs too much because so often they get tedious. This, though? It was the perfect balance, and with the shifting team dynamic throughout the game, it really enhanced the story and added to it, rather than being a tedious distracting!

I also have to immediately say how much I loved the Dark World. The designs, the music, the uniqueness of the characters - seriously, Toby Fox did an incredible thing. This doesn’t feel like The Underground 2.0 - this feels like a different place, with beings that are different.... yet their attitudes and interactions still have that freaking charm and depth (even in minor NPCs) that I love about his style of storytelling.

Also, Ralsei is fluffiest best boi, I’m weeping.

Okay - I’m going to save the majority of my gushing over the team & team dynamic in the Dark World for another separate post, because given how much everyone is freaking out, i want to jump right into the meat of it:

Thoughts & Theories

First off... Do I think that this is Undertale 2: the Sequel?

No... but, also, kind of.

I do not think that Deltarune is in any way a direct sequel to Undertale. I especially strongly feel that it’s not an accurate take away to say this is ‘erasing the canon of Undertale’ or ‘destroying the characters/messing with what I love about them’.

I absolutely believe that this is, very literally, an alternate universe to the one we know and love in Undertale. The evidence is everywhere, especially once we return from the Dark World. The characters are nearly all there (and then some), and all the familiar ones carry the same personality and traits that make up the core of them, but the relationships, the context they’ve lived is different. This makes them different people in many ways- hell, with how widely accepted AUs became for the fandom, this should be nothing unfamiliar - but I think a lot of people are wildly thrown off by the fact that Toby Goddamn He Sure Did That Fox legitimately made AUs canon with this game.

Hell, the world of Deltarune seems to even give us the detail that The War (between humans and monsters) never happened here! There’s no hints of it - while the town seems to be almost entirely monsters but for Kris (presumably adopted), there’s no mention of some past sealed in the Underground (or the relationships/bond formed from such an experience), and frankly it doesn’t seem like there’s animosity between monsters and humans, either.

So if it’s not a Sequel™, what is it?

Deltarune is exploring a new theme, using familiar characters, a familiar setup, which in my mind makes it all the more powerful-

Namely, I believe Deltarune is taking two main characters/’entities’ from Undertale as it’s core focus-

‘Chara’ and Gaster.

Why do I think ‘Chara’? (and why the quotes?)

This, from the end of a No-Mercy Route:

and once you select ‘Erase’:

(see too, the fact that if you do a full Pacifist ending after a No-Mercy run, the post-credits include ‘you’ waking up in the middle of the night, and the ‘Chara’ face and familiar red glint occurring.)

Deltarune is a natural ‘evolution’, a follow-up to this specific moment, this concept.

Especially, especially, I note the phrasing ‘this pointless’ world’-

because a major theme of Deltarune (Chapter 1) is the idea that your choices have little impact on the world.

This is in direct juxtaposition to Undertale’s them of ‘choices matter’ - hell, in Deltarune, the ending is damn near the same in the Dark World even if you fight every monster - you can’t even kill any of them, because they run away, scared of you.

So, Deltarune’s theme - so far, your choices... don’t matter.

I’m not here to conjecture without proof - the fact is, this is Chapter 1, and we just don’t have all the details, not even close. We don’t know Kris’ origin (adopted, almost certainly, but how/why? from where, when there seems to be no other human in this town? are monsters largely separated from humans, or is this town just a case of a concentration in population?); we don’t know Gaster’s role (I’ll get to him shortly); we don’t know if the Dark World (and Lightners) are something even whispered about in legend in the world we came from.

(That said, I don’t stand by the interpretation of ‘all that being just a dream’ situation, but again, I’d rather have more info from the next Chapter before I try and conjecture there.)

We see in the beginning of the game something that the weight of doesn’t really hit hard until after it all- Kris, when facing the mirror and checking it, gets the flavor text ‘It’s just you.’

Naturally, at first playthrough, this largely just seems like a callback to the mirror text in Undertale, and a minor insight into Kris’ personal self-value - with the ‘just’ seeming a little sadly self-deprecating.

But after you’ve seen the post-credits-

Suddenly, that feels more like tired relief.

I don’t want to say for sure that Kris is ‘haunted’ or anything like that, but Kris is definitely not just Kris. The post-credits confirm that without a doubt. Suddenly, they lurch out of their bed - not moving normally, as if something else is... piloting them, for lack of a better term - they look like a freaking zombie, at best... and then they rip their soul out of their body and slam it into a cage. The next moment, we get the chilling red-glint and distinctive ‘Chara’ like expression.

I say this tentatively, but my guess is that Kris, being adopted (though certainly at a young age, given the text about Kris growing up with Asriel) came from a bad situation. Again, avoiding too much conjecture in this post, but there’s a lot of signs that point towards that - and I mean, the symbolism of ‘separating yourself from your heart/emotions’ after something traumatic...? The emptiness of Kris’ side of the room, the way that Kris doesn’t fight back in the beginning against Susie, the emotional distance... Seeming, based on interactions with others, like Kris has been largely reticent or at least distant from others more and more, with the exception of big bro Asriel? That’s a lot of red flags, in my mind-

But it’s more than just having issues from whatever happened in their past (and presumably to their birth parents...), it’s also that either because of or in relation to that, ‘Chara’ has become a part of them, and, apparently, takes over at times. That red wagon, that cage... that’s not new. It’s rusty, there are stains nearby seemingly from it/what it held-

This is why I keep putting ‘Chara’ in quotes. It’s moreover a name for the entity of hate/no mercy that you face at the end of the game, not so much the actual Fallen Child from Undertale.

We don’t know what’s been happening with that, we don’t know how much or how often ‘Chara’ has control - but they’re there, and Kris knows it.

This is what so strongly ties together that theme of choices don’t matter - because that seems to be what Kris feels.

Additionally, on the note of Gaster:

No, we haven’t ‘seen’ him yet, or received.... direct confirmation. But Toby Fox, despite being the greatest troll with the best payoff to have ever lived, doesn’t do things lightly. Hell, despite the overwhelming popularity of Undertale, he’s only ever done a handful of proper interviews, and rarely gives concrete details about anything - if he doesn’t want to imply or say something, he won’t.

But we know for certain that he never does things lightly, and the tweets leading up to Deltarune’s release were all in the style of the ‘Missing Entry’, the DARKER YET DARKER entry - ie, the Gaster entry. Coming from a background of writing analysis and style analysis, this matches to a T (though seriously, you don’t need any kind of background to notice that...) - and furthermore, matches the ‘character creation’ start of Deltarune.

Gaster, wherever, whatever he is, is likely ‘viewing’ all this from his position smeared across space-time... everywhere and nowhere at once. He’s positioned as the narrator in an overarching since - his seems to be the ‘voice’ speaking to you when you game-over, his is what you see in the beginning... I’d bet we’re going to be seeing a lot more, though almost certainly in unexpected ways, in future chapters.

Wrapping up-

There’s so much up in the air, but I feel certain about that much based on all the evidence so far. The fact that a game of this length came out of the blue when only some of us even dared to hope for a small demo from the Gaster Tweets on Oct. 30th... holy shit.

Some people seem to have mixed feelings, but seriously - Toby Fox released a 3-4 hour game (depending on how you played it, that’s about the fastest I’ve seen on average for first plays without rushing), with no Kickstarter, no whisper of it coming out - and it’s only the first chapter of the story. However you feel about that, seriously - this man is an incredible creator, and I couldn’t be more in awe.

I’d love to hear your thoughts, so feel free to reblog this/add on! I might come back and do some light edits/add-ons as I’m sure I’ll think of something I forgot to say in hardly ten minutes, but anything major I’ll likely add in a personal reblog.

With that, I’ll leave off with one final note that I think no one’s brought up yet in what little I’ve seen on full thoughts of the game:

Anyone remember the Stretch Goals from the Undertale Kickstarter?

Well, under the last, largest one, Toby Fox wrote this:

The “other” game... I can’t tell you anything about it. Its very nature is shrouded in darkness.

Toby Fox, everyone.

Toby Goddamn Fox.