#undertaker is Cedric

[liusia-piu]

[cedric-k-rossignol]

[midnight-in-town]

"Humans really do change in the blink of an eye" (ch105) vs. "I feel as if you were born nary a moment ago" (ch151)

My guy UT really got emotional seeing his bby girl, huh...

[ignotarts]

🤔

"Phantomhive Family"

[dqrkncss666]

~"Comforted by Life"~

Claudia walked down the manor's hallway as she heard her servants whispering in the other room. Two household maids were chatting very suspiciously. She stood behind the slightly opened door and carefully listened.

"Don't you think we shall tell her?"

"No no he requested we should not and we shall respect that."

Just then Tanaka entered the room from another door behind them.

"What has happened ladies?"

"We can not tell you..." the blonde maid replied.

"Tell him what?" Claudia pushed the door open and crossed her arms.

"Madam! How long have you been behind there?!" the other maid asked terrified.

"Very long. What has happened I demand to know." Claudia was standing at the door way very fiercely.

"Tanaka you tell her!" the maids hid behind him.

"How should I tell her? I am as confused as she is!!!"

"Enough! Tell me." Claudia shouted and walked closer to them. The blonde maid managed to speak.

"Mister Undertaker is not well-" before she could finish her sentence Claudia's expression changed and she stormed out of the room.

"My lady wait!!! He does not want to see anyone!!!" the maids and Tanaka ran out of the room but couldn't keep up with her. Tanaka looked at them.

"Did he try to? Again?"

The maids nodded.

Claudia quickly walked from room to room calling his name opening doors here and there. She then reached a locked door at the end of the top floor's hallway. She knocked on it lightly. No answer. She knocked again.

"Open the door." she said softly yet demanding.

No answer again.

"Cedric open this door or I'll force it down."

Just then Tanaka appeared behind her.

"My lady," he showed her the keys.

She nodded and Tanaka opened the door.

"I'll be right behind this door if he shall hurt-"

"He will not hurt me Tanaka he is my husband." she entered the room closing the door behind her.

The room was dark as it was being used for storage. Claudia looked around the room that seemed empty but insanely messy with boxes everywhere. A second later she heard a dragging sound behind her.

"Cedric?" she said softly and turned to the corner she heard the noise from.

He was sat against the wall his head on his bend knees as his long silver hair covered most of his body. His scythe was layed next to him glowing slightly green.

Claudia could hear him murmuring as she stepped closer. She kneeled down right infront of him.

"Cedric what has happened you are scaring me," just then she noticed behind him papers and drawings. She could only make out some words.

Records... tied... souls... and drawings of bodies.

"What... are these...?" she asked.

"Don't look at them..." he raised his head. "It is not of importance. Did those chit-chatting maids tell you about me?"

"Don't blame them I overheard their conversation, now tell me what has happened."

She saw blood on his clothes and hands.

"Show me your hands is that blood?"

He nodded.

"What did you try to do?! Why is your scythe here?"

"I tried going to the Headquarters..."

"Why ever would you do that?! Look at you you are hurt I shall call for Tanaka."

"Claudia I am immortal..." he said "that is the problem," he murmured after.

Claudia stared at him she had never seen him like this.

"Someday you'll leave me like everyone else has and I'll be stuck here in this madness that I entrapped myself not a soul to speak to just hiding from those Grim Reapers that are so blinded by their gruesome work. Waiting waiting waiting I will be alone all alone do you understand you will be gone I won't be able to turn back time to save you no no I haven't figured it out yet I-" he stopped.

He looked at Claudia's terrified expression, just then did he realise he was holding her by her shoulders aggressively shaking her.

He let her go. His eyes were shedding tears, he was helpless all because he loved life.

"I am not going anywhere, I am safe as long as you are with me," she cupped his cheek and wiped a tear.

"Where are your glasses my dear you can't even see me!" she smiled.

"Over there..." he pointed at the middle of the room.

Claudia stood up and picked up his glasses, she then kneeled back down and helped him wear them back on.

"There you are, all handsome again. Come here let us sit here for a while."

Cedric was about to accept but then he recalled all the papers behind him on the wall. He didn't want to scare her more than he already had.

"No Claudia, let us go in another room...." he stood up.

Claudia stood up too and looked straight in his green eyes.

"Why ever did you go to the Headquarters?"

Cedric forced a grin "Oh forget it Countess,"

Tanaka knocked on the door before opening it, letting a ray of light enter the dark room.

"Is everything alright? Shall I prepare some tea?" he asked.

"Yes Tanaka tea would be perfect!" Claudia smiled as Tanaka bowed and closed the door.

Cedric looked down at Claudia with the same grin as before.

"Stop grinning Cedric, you know I can see its fake." Claudia held his hands as Cedric's expression changed.

"We will be alright my love." she pressed a soft kiss on his lips before the two of them exited the room.

[amethystroselily]

Ok the Undertaker being Vincent’s dad theory is really funny to me, so here’s how I think it could possibly work.

Undertaker was a reaper 70 years ago and seems properly obsessed with the phantomhive family as a whole, and met Vincent later on in his life, so I really don’t think he was married to Claudia. Plus Claudia and Vincent’s father didn’t have the same last name, so whoever he was I doubt they were married (perhaps having to do with Claudia trying to keep her title or something). So I think he had some deep attachment to a previous Phatomhive lord (perhaps he was a servant), but then the earl died or something, and then he killed himself, becoming a reaper. Then maybe he was monitoring the family for years and they kept dying so he snapped and went rogue, maybe his experiments kept failing, so then he was like woah maybe as a reaper I should see what mixing my dna in would do (probably a rule about not fraternizing with humans to avoid this), and around then the current Phatomhive family head is a woman so like great time to test it out, then maybe the relationship fell apart because of some sort of respectability she had to maintain or they were busy or something and she didn’t want him around her kids anymore, then years later undertaker gets back to stalking the phatomhives once his son is the new earl.

Maybe he wanted to use Vincent’s body because he had a higher concentration of reaperness, but then he lost the corpse (maybe bc fire, maybe bc Vincent isn’t actually dead) so he’s using ciel instead.

Also I’ve seen the theory Francis was involved in Vincent’s death, and maybe that’s why he doesn’t seem particularly invested in her side of the family. Perhaps sibling feuds are a long tradition in the Phantomhive family and it makes him think of a previous one and that’s why he keeps getting so involved.

The way Othello talked about Undertaker made him sound like he was a lot like Francis when he was younger, and I think the idea of Francis looking down on this random strange man who worked with her brother and him turning out to be her father whom she takes after in both looks and personality is so interesting.

Also I personally think he like stole some of Othello’s research on resurrection on his way out and that’s where all the tension is coming from. Because obviously Othello can’t tell Grell that, so he has to skirt around it, but there’s obviously something more going on between him and undertaker.

[sumikae]

Kuroshitsuji is really really in-your-face with its twists, especially recent ones. If Undertaker cherishing Claudia's locket and not wanting to lose anymore Phantomhives make it seems like he's Ciel's grandpa, then it's pretty much canon that he is. Just from the storytelling and artistic point:

If the uniqueness the shinigami mentioned came from Claudia's side of the family, it'd be her husband's card that were omitted, not her parents'. Yana's an artist - she wouldn't put that much emphasis on Cedric's name and deliberately hide his date of birth/death if he's just some dude.

[abybweisse]

Why I think Undertaker has to be Cedric, revisited

At this point in the series, I'm a bit surprised how many in the fandom not just don't see him as Cedric K. Ros-- but actually rail against the idea.

So, here's a long, somewhat thorough overview of the situational and physical clues that he's Cedric, the father of Vincent and Francis/Frances.

Situational hints

How he cries over the details of Vincent's death. Not just that he died but what became of his remains. I'd cry over my dead son, too, especially if I had the ability to reanimate corpses but his body was destroyed by fire so that I couldn't do that. Let alone the fact his cinematic records were destroyed, so I not only couldn't make a bizarre doll of him, but I couldn't even review his memories to see what happened right before he died. This ties in with what he later says about not wanting to lose any more Phantomhives. But it strongly suggests that whoever set the fire did so specifically to thwart the efforts of a grim reaper. Whoever did that either knew Undertaker was a reaper or was at least following the instructions of someone who knew.

The whole not wanting to lose more Phantomhives thing. Claudia/Cloudia is gone, and so is Vincent. Reanimating real Ciel is the best he can do to not let the older twin go. He tried to destroy Sebastian to release our earl "Ciel" from their demon contract and might try again. Makes you wonder just how many Phantomhives he's really lost already. As well as where others might still be alive. What exactly was his business in France? 🤔

Even his odd comment to our earl (before the attack) that he wasn't sure which twin this was... but that it didn't matter because they were both Phantomhives. Instead of seeing an heir and a spare, he saw them equally. At least he did then. I suspect he now sees our earl as a spare soul... or conversely sees real Ciel as a spare body. I guess both could be true, making them still essentially equal in his eyes. Again, this could be another attempt to save our earl from Sebastian. By putting our earl's soul into the unmarked body of real Ciel, that might void the contract... unless the seal on our earl's eye also somehow affected his soul. 🤔 Anyway. I digress, since that gets into a separate theory discussion.

Standing in to help young Mr. Pitt take a photo of the twins. That's right after telling our earl it doesn't matter which twin he is. Then the other twin and Mr. Pitt arrive, the latter holding a new camera. It's odd that Mr. Pitt would ask a non-relative of the kids (besides a nanny) to help stage the photo, though Pitt is perhaps the non-traditionalist anyway. Undertaker seems like he's shocked to be asked, but he also seems amused. Mr. Pitt likely doesn't even suspect Undertaker is the twins' paternal grandfather, otherwise he might have seen it as a scoop, á la "LOWLY UNDERTAKER IS SIRE TO PROMINENT NOBLE FAMILY" or something equally scandalous. Because undertakers were considered low class citizens. So, Undertaker acts shocked but complies with giddy delight. By asking Undertaker to help stage the photo, he has likely, unwittingly asked a relative of the boys, which would be considered completely appropriate for the time period.

How he treats the Midfords. He recognizes Lizzie's talents and skill with a sword, otherwise he wouldn't have wanted her at Sphere Music Hall as a protector of the lords of the stars, while he kept them and Blavat hidden away. So he probably had Blavat bring her into the cult. Undertaker might see some of himself in Lizzie, but he definitely sees it in Frances/Francis, and I don't just mean physically. Both women fight in a similar manner as he does: highly skillful and graceful. Idk what he thinks of Edward, but I know he got a great laugh from watching the Phantom Five (including Edward) perform onstage. He doesn't interact much, if at all, with Alexis, who isn't a Phantomhive.

What he says to Francis/Frances, as well as how she responds. Again, he hardly acknowledges Alexis' existence, but Undertaker speaks directly with "Lady Phantomhive". That's really important because she's married into the Midford family and hasn't gone by her maiden name in many years. As long as Edward is old plus at least a bit longer, since she strikes me as too proper for a shotgun wedding, even if she weren't a noble. So, he sets her apart from her husband because she was born a Phantomhive. He doesn't want to lose her, either, because she is her mother's daughter. Then, when she nervously states he hasn't changed in roughly four years, he pokes fun at the fact he hasn't changed in a much longer time frame. He says her birth, over 30 years ago, seems like just yesterday. She's sweating bullets, and it's not just his creepy vibes. She knows he means it -- that 30-some-odd years is nothing to him... and that he very specifically recalls her birth. I'm pretty sure she knows he's her father, and she's horribly embarrassed by the fact. Alexis doesn't have a clue about it, and she'd rather keep it that way. But what he says strongly implies that he was present at her birth. Maybe down the hall, like Vincent was when his sons were born, but there... and just as anxious and excited and proud.

How the years for Cedric's birth and death dates are hidden by a speech bubble. Cloudia/Claudia's dates are fully shown because she's a regular human being. Well... a human, anyway. But if Undertaker is Cedric, then the birth and death dates for him would be from when he was a human, before he committed suicide and was sentenced to serve out his punishment as a reaper. That death date could be decades or even centuries before Cloudia/Claudia was even born. Remember that this family tree isn't one prepared by humans; it's part of the dossier that the German reapers have for our earl. The focus is purely biological ancestry, not marriages. Cloudia/Claudia and Cedric don't have to be married to be on this family tree; he is biologically the father of both Vincent and Francis/Frances.

Physical hints

He looks a lot like Francis/Frances and Edward. And Yana-san tweeted years ago that Francis and Edward look like Cedric. Here's a comparison between Edward and Undertaker. Here's one between Francis/Frances and Undertaker.

The place on his right where his hair has a long braid seems to match up with Lizzie's and Francis/Frances' right side locks that tend to stick out. He's got it tucked behind his right ear, but the braid might originate from the same spot. If Lizzie and her mother pushed those locks back, behind their right ears, the placement would be the same as Undertaker's braid.

He has the exact same baby hairs at the nape of his neck as Lizzie and Francis/Frances. They might be a bit shorter, but they are definitely there. Here's an old post about it. Edward possibly does, too, and we could tell if his hair was grown out and pulled up, but his hair is short and a bit shaggy on the nape of his neck, so we can't be sure.

[tothelasthoursofmylife]

Me, doing whatever:

My brain, all of a sudden for no reason whatsoever:

OMG, WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE FAMILY TREE IN THE ANIME SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[biby-24k]

Undertaker cosplaying Undertaker

[fallenrayvens]

You know what?

I’m hereby declaring that besides all the already existing clues and evidences that point to Undertaker being Cedric Phantomhive, I believe in it mainly because of the fact that the name of this family is Phantomhive.

Just like Undertaker was obviously a reaper to me from the start because duh, of course. Have you looked at him. His name is Undertaker. He runs a morgue.

Of course the noble family that is known for ruling the English underworld, currently has assassins as normal manor servants and a fucking demon as the main butler and is literally named “phantom hive” has grim reaper lineage. Wouldn’t surprise me if undertaker wasn’t even the first one of them.

It just seems like a Yana thing. She did it multiple times already, nothing stopping this from being so obvious.

[bibyshitsuji24k]

2018 // 2023

Undertaker might have become my iloveandhateyou character (at least he wants Smile alive... Right?)

[cedric-k-rossignol]

03.25.25. Happy New Years Day, Annunciation Day, Vernal Equinox, and most importantly - a very Happy Birthday to our beloved nightingale.

[midnight-in-town]

TOP 10 reveals during the Green Witch arc

Since this arc is airing soon, I thought I’d recap what to look forward to, plot wise, since most of these are still very relevant to the current storyline. :)

10) A new ally

Spoilers for anime-onlies, but obviously Sieglinde's introduction is a big deal. Her genius aside, like Soma, Sieglinde is one of the few characters who has only known our!Ciel and who owes him a lot, which explains why she'd remain a friend and ally to him, in the current arc against real!Ciel.

The fact she's a genius is also extremely plot relevant, because Sieglinde's laboratory is funded by Queen Victoria, which means Sieglinde will definitely play a big role in the series until we get to the heart of the Victoria vs Ciel conflict.

9) Diedrich

Long time hinted at, first real time actually seeing him in action and, man, did he serve !

Despite his grief, he's a genuinely caring evil noble, because he promised Vincent, but also, because he simply cares that a kid like Ciel has to shoulder this burden. That's why he immediately chose to side with him, instead of his own army : patriotism, who ? Friendship is the real deal.

He's also one of the few characters who may have known that our!Ciel was lying about his identity, considering he never called him "Ciel", which means that he might remain an ally of our!Ciel in the current conflict between the twins.

8) Finny's backstory

Finny's the first servant to have his backstory revealed, because this arc happens in Germany, but also because Finny has similar circumstances to Sieglinde. Both of them were "experiments" of the German military, Finny with enhanced strength and Sieglinde with intelligence, creating new weapons.

The bond between Finny and Ciel is revealed to be deeper and a more emotional one than we could imagine, as Ciel is Finny's savior and Finny would even stand against Sebastian for his sake.

There is also the possibility that our!Ciel gave Finny his birth name that he discarded 4 years ago, making that bond even more significant if this turns out to be true.

7) All the servants in action

Not seen since the Circus arc, will not be seen again until our!Ciel runs away from Scotland Yard in the current arc (and will probably be seen next time against bizarre doll!Snake T_T).

We had many badass moments, for all of them, showing how much they want to be helpful to their master, which is heartwarming. Bonus point for Dee's remark :

In other words, Tanaka aside, Vincent didn't have a household full of talented fighters.

Finny's backstory and standing against Sebastian also proved that the servants are all definitely devoted to our!Ciel, making them his most secured allies, which will be hella significant (as we now know) when real!Ciel returns (and in case there is one day a conflict between Seb and Ciel).

6) More development for the War subplot

This story has different subplots (the main plot being Ciel's path to revenge) and this one was introduced back during the Murders at Manor arc :

Queen Victoria is said in the story to be a visionary (*cough* thanks to Brown being a supernatural being *cough*), reigning over the most powerful Empire in the world.

Twice now, she sent her Watchdog to thwart Germany's military achievements (when Ciel saved Finny and again during the Green Witch arc), to say nothing of her interest in bizarre dolls as weapons.

German Shinigamis also commented on the possibility of a massive world war being launched soon and it seems clear Victoria is preparing for that.

For now though, our!Ciel positioned himself as a threat, because he managed to convince Sieglinde not to give the Queen the formula for the SuLIN gas, which is what she was mainly coveting.

This means that our!Ciel probably has a huge part to play in avoiding the launch of WWI, 25 years early (could even be why he might be judged worthy, should he...ahem... die).

5) Family tree and special lineage

Ch103 made a lot of noise when it was released, between hints of real!Ciel's existence, the reveal of the birth & death dates of Claudia and Vincent, contrasting with the absence of dates for Cedric K. Ros-, thus the theory that it could be the Undertaker's previous identity.

On top of that, it's also in this chapter that our!Ciel noticed the German Shinigamis, despite them hiding, when Seb couldn't, implying the existence of a Phantomhive lineage very useful against supernatural beings.

In fact, to this day I remain a strong advocate of the theory that the Watchdog's duty is the Phantomhives' burden because of their special lineage.

4) Shinigamis' origins

The GW arc is also when we got the confirmation that Shinigamis were once humans and that other deserters besides UT exist.

The implication that the Shinigami system is an unfair one that deserters like UT might be trying to take down also started with this reveal and could be, as some of us theorized, very significant to the current arc.

3) Our!Ciel's inner guilt

The GW arc was a painful arc for Ciel, because it triggered some traumatic memories that left him lost inside his own head for a few days. A peak into his mind in ch95 showed that our!Ciel feels guilty about many people's death...

...and that it's why he bears with the contract, giving up hope for a happy future, because he's the one who made that choice 4 years ago, for his own sake.

2) The Undertaker's tearful moment

The arc started with our!Ciel trying to find info about UT and questioning Klaus about him. But Klaus turned him down, saying Dee would know more, because he was an evil noble before Klaus was.

So it was quite memorable when it turned out that UT had visited Dee, not long before our!Ciel arrived in Germany. xD

And while we can question what he was doing there before going to France (trying to sell bizarre dolls as weapons to Victoria's enemies ? or recruiting Shinigami deserters from these countries ?), what mostly struck is UT's reaction to seeing a picture of Vincent during his Weston days :

Obviously, this scene was a big hint about real!Ciel being turned into a bizarre doll, but also to the bond existing between UT and Ciel's family (aka the possibility that he's Cedric K. Ros).

This scene also confirmed that, unlike real!Ciel, Vincent can't be brought back as a BD, because his body (which is where the cinematic records remain) is too damaged.

This begs the question : was the fire, which destroyed the manor, started to damage Vincent's cinematic records, 4 years ago ? Not because of the bizarre doll project, because it didn't exist yet, but rather to hide who actually killed him and Rachel ? Food for thoughts.

1) Initial sparks of a possible conflict between Seb and Ciel in the future

A part of the fandom loves to joke about the "90% serious" incident that happened during this arc, but actually, comic relief is often used by Yana to hide a darker truth.

As far as Seb is concerned, him being 90% serious about eating our!Ciel's soul means he was more than ready to end it then.

This proves that Seb doesn't have Ciel's best interests in mind (in case anyone had doubts lmao), he just acts by the 3 rules of their contract, as long as Ciel still has his path of revenge well in mind.

Their dynamic is a chessgame that's been ongoing for the last 4 years and this indeed means that...

...Seb is the one Ciel trusts least of all, because a simple lack of focus can be deadly for him. So there might come a day when our!Ciel questions if the contract is really what he wants, but before that day happens, he will need to deal with all that inner guilt first.

For more details, please read these posts :

Rise of a possible conflict about the contract between Seb and Ciel [part 1] [part 2]

About Ciel’s inner guilt and how it might eventually cause a conflict between him and Seb

Thanks for reading ! Looking forward to more commentaries about this arc by Yana-sensei and Editor K, as the anime airs !

[ignotarts]

"Right now, you are just . . . beautiful."

[dqrkncss666]

Welcome to another Theory Show with Dora on crack.

Today we will talk about this:

So.

WHERE IS FRANCIS?!

As we can see we have Claudia P. and Cedric K. Ros- something, they have done the deed and created Vincent.... Where is FRANCIS?!

As we see on the family tree, again, Vincent continues to marry Rachel and have the Phantomhive twins. WHERE IS FRANCIS?!

Shouldn't she have been on Vincent's left?

Now, if we go with the theory that Cedric is, in fact, the Undertaker then this could be an error Yana made or, over here, the German shinigamis are following ONLY O/Ciel's bloodline going up to his father and then going up to his grandmother. Which is a logical explanation as to why Francis is not there. This is the best scenario and the one I like to believe.

But what if Undertaker is not actually Cedric and Francis not being on there is on purpose? What if Claudia wasn't faithful to her legal husband Cedric and had an affair with the Undertaker creating an illegitimate daughter?

Without having done any research, I personally believe that this would explain why Francis married out of the Phantomhive family so quickly. She had no title and her position and the family's reputation were on the verge of scandal. Her marrying Alexis Midford and becoming a Marquisses would not allow any time for anyone to question her legitimacy and of course, keeping the family name clean.

Could her wedding with Alexis have been merely to cover up her mother's doing? Maybe Claudia betrothed her to Alexis when Francis was a baby so she could be sure her daughter would never face any problems with her title and fortune being on the verge.

But then we come over to Vincent, does he know his sister is his half-sister?

Over to the Undertaker now, if this theory is true why is he protecting the Phantomhives only and not the Midfords as well? Did he protect them "off-camera" as we say, in the Campania? Will we see it in a flashback?

Does the British Shinigami dispatch have knowledge of this family tree? Why have we never seen anyone speaking of it? They clearly don't know anything.

DOES FRANCIS KNOW?! Is that why every time she sees the Undertaker her face changes? Does she hate him? Perhaps she thinks he is the one who ruined the Phantomhive family and her future.

If this theory is true, are we gonna have a chapter (when Yana finally comes back from her hiatus because she clearly wrote herself into a wall) of Francis arguing with the Undertaker about him ruining her family and making her an illegitimate daughter with no title and no fortune? Him trying to comfort his daughter and calm her anger down and finally seeing those two be kind to one another?

But this is merely a theory after I got crack. We will see. :>