#tw; mentions of incest

[intheholler]

what joke are you really tryin to tell when you make fun of appalachia and the greater south?

even when you "just" mock our accents (you and i both know what you're really implying when you take on the drawl), the punchline of your joke there is poverty.

those who prefer a more overt route over backhanded implication: when you laugh at our education, or lack thereof, the punchline of your joke is still poverty. systemically underfunded schools packed with underprivileged children who aren't getting the same standards of education as the rest of the country is a real knee slapper boy i tell you what

when you mock our dental health and start quipping about toothless hillbillies, you're still laughin at poverty. appalachia is disproportionately uninsured compared to the rest of the nation. fellas most of us can't afford the privilege of regular, preventative dental visits and checkups, let alone the cost of huge procedures when things finally get dire. beyond that, our poverty is generational. from the get go we inherit bad teeth from family who couldn't afford that shit neither.

in the same vein, when you make fatphobic comments about said disproportionately-uninsured region--one with few jobs available to begin with, let alone work that pays enough to afford wholesome, unprocessed foods that don't rot yer teeth for supper--the butt of your joke is,, u guessed it,, ✨ poverty ✨

but to me the real kicker is the cousin fucker jokes. how can you not see that when you snark about inbreeding, when you piss yourself over that infamous billboard and oh, how could anyone possibly need to be told that?!, your punchline is not only poverty and a lack of education enough to develop critical thinking skills and the ability to build safe support networks, but you're also usually guffawing at incestuous rape and vulnerable children on top of it. peak comedy.

really though, how is any of that funny?

what happens to everyone's class consciousness the moment we start talkin about the hollers n the deep south?

why does health insurance, quality education, and food security for all suddenly go from issues worth fighting for to punishments, and ones we deserve to be humiliated for on top of it?

i know im just a dumb ol hillbilly n all, but i reckon i just don't get what we're supposed to be laughin at here

[skumhuu]

Proshipper = you're against censorship and harassment over fiction & curate your experience on the internet to have a healthy distance from things that make you uncomfortable

Antishipper = you're okay and even encourage harassment towards "freaks" and "weirdos" society deems acceptable to hurt

[incognitopolls]

We ask your questions so you don’t have to! Submit your questions to have them posted anonymously as polls.

[thottybrucewayne]

Ain't it crazy that alot of people on this site are more comfortable being around people who talk non stop about being into incest than survivors who are vocal about wanting those people to fuckin kill themselves?

[nerves-nebula]

finished product of that poll i held. enjoy.

[5typesoftrash]

if you are pro-censorship, you are not my ally. Not in feminism, not in queerness, not in anti-racism. Bad actors aren't going to just censor the things you don't like; they won't stop. Sure, they'll sweep over the explicit incest and pedophilia, but then, just like the fancop teenagers have, they will start stretching those definitions to include everything that they dislike. Calling queer people pedophiles is a textbook example of queer oppression; you don't think conservatives are gonna use that as an excuse to burn books about trans joy and wlw/mlm experiences? Because they will.

If you are pro-censorship, you are not my ally.

[pollsnatural]

*I didn’t come up with this option, this is an explanation that I saw in someone’s post a long time ago.

[boneywones]

talking about the excuse of “fiction doesn’t affect reality” in proshipping and how the excuse itself doesnt hold up. + some other tiny points about my opinion on some proshipping things.

firstly i want to say that the excuse of “fiction doesnt affect reality” does not hold up. it is also in fact, incorrect. 

fiction does affect reality, you can see it happening through propaganda or any types of fiction at all. like for example, the jaws movie (a work of fiction) had greatly influenced peoples opinions on sharks and how people interpret them. the jaws movie in itself had shown sharks to be heartless creatures that eat humans, which is most definitely false. (How Jaws Influenced Shark Perception – Shark Stewards, Shark fear: Just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water... | ScienceDaily for reference.)

propagandas term is quite simple to explain. spreading misinformation to change a persons opinion, or moreso political views in some cases. misinformation is indeed fictional, as it is not real. a lot of cases of propaganda has been shown through the years, and it has obviously shown that it has had an impact on reality and real peoples perspective on things.

another way that fiction can affect reality is if people give out enough false information that it can highly change the minds of people online or in real life. if people give false ideologies of certain types of people, then people will follow that false narrative and build up an opinion based on false facts. for example, a man online gives out a lot of false information about women. an impressionable minor or teenager will come across it, then learn from that person. this has been shown through podcasts that you see online, or people that give out false dating advice and what women want. 

though sometimes fiction can affect reality in a positive way, like when fictional pieces give out positive messages and can positively influence people. messages or the “moral of the story” can let children learn what is right and wrong. this can affect how children think, and how they act when they grow up later in life. 

now onto proshipping, or proshipping media specifically. first, lets talk about how the ship frans (frisk x sans) had deeply and negatively affected the utmv/undertale fandom.

back when the undertale fandom was starting to gain popularity, the ship frans had as well. a lot of people found out about this ship from comic dubs, which further pushed more popularity to it. since this media was circulating and was nearly everywhere, children or people in general had started to think that the ship was normal since they had consumed so much media of it and saw people liking it. if you do not know, frisk is a child and sans is an adult. this is a pedophilic ship. (its also not excusable to “age up” the minor/child, as the ship itself is pedophilic. if you need an excuse to ship something that romanticises real life problems, then why ship it at all?)

this is the same with fontcest, as i have seen a fair few people state that they used to ship one or the other (even both in some cases) because they were influenced by the behaviour of others around them. you get what im saying, now?

// anyway super unrelated but not rly but i think proshippers should openly state that they are in fact proshippers on their mains instead of making people look for shit so they can get full confirmation,, (the fact that i see so much people not know that some people they follow are proshippers is so fucking alarming??) also i think adult proshippers should push minors out of their little “community” instead of letting people like themselves groom minors into thinking the same things as them,,,, think thats just me tho!!!!!!! (/sarc) and to all the minor proshippers, please stay safe and get the help you need /srs /nm /gen 🫶

+ to the adult proshippers that actively make media that are about incestuous ships, i need you 2 know that doing something like that is normalising and romanticising incest ☺️ i dont care if its fiction, its still incest. there is no excuse to make normalised and sexualised media of incest.

[welcomingdisaster]

Things to do When You’re Bored on Thangorodrim

Cry 

Hit the rocks a little 

Regret things 

Cry some more 

Look at the stars and feel inspired 

Hit the rocks some more 

Feel stupid about smashing up your good hand on the rocks 

Try to count the orcs passing underneath 

Give up 

Take a nap 

Feel distantly impressed the orcs are still marching 

Try to count the orcs again 

Do a lot of orc-multiplication in your head 

Realize they’re marching in a circle 

Feel kind of gaslit 

Look up at the stars 

Sing a little ditty (to the stars) 

Watch the orcs leave 

Take a nap 

Nothing, for an unknown amount of time

Try some bird calls

Feel kind of embarrassed about the quality of your bird calls 

Take a nap 

Watch the bats 

Chip off a bit of the rock and toss it in general direction of the bats to trick them into thinking it’s an insect 

Feel kind of satisfied about tricking the bats 

Feel kind of guilty about tricking the bats 

Miss your father

Get pissed at your father. What the fuck, right? 

Take shelter from the rain against the rock wall 

Get wet 

Think about how pretty lightning is 

Regret things 

Cry 

Kick the rock wall 

Chew your nails 

Scold yourself for falling back into bad habits 

Do long division in your head 

Scream 

Nothing, for an unknown amount of time 

Wake up

Look down at the marching orcs 

Think about that one time four hundred years ago you came to court with your robes undone in the back 

Miss your brothers 

Miss your mother 

Miss your father 

Think about how your father’s dead 

Regret things

Wonder what they’re doing back home 

Imagine a lot of lamps, probably 

Think about the making of lamps 

Cry 

Feel kind of stupid about crying re: lamps 

Hope the bats didn’t actually eat the rock you tossed 

Apologize to the bats for tricking them with the rock

Sing a little ditty (to the bats) 

Chew your nails 

Scream 

Kick the rock wall 

More long division 

Invent a new kind of pull-up which involves being chained to a sheer rock face by your right hand and crying a lot 

Watch eagles 

Sing a little ditty (to the eagles) 

Come up with an elaborate story in your head about how the eagles are in love 

Realize the eagles are brothers 

Feel guilty about the story you made up in your head 

Take a nap 

Look up at the stars 

Do your pull up a whole bunch of times 

Lick the rock wall 

Try to remember how to write a villanelle  

Eat a piece of your own skin that peeled off your hand after you hit the rock wall 

Feel gross 

Hope your brothers are coming to get you 

Hope your bothers aren’t coming to get you 

Cry

Swing back and forth on the chain a little 

Sing a little ditty (just in general) 

Wave to the eagles as they return 

Watch eagles 

Try to think of good and pure things while watching the eagles 

Fuck it, incest eagles 

[incognitopolls]

*This poll is asking how many people have had genuine romantic/sexual connections or experimental phases with family members. Do not count sexual assault between family members.

**For the purposes of this poll, incest includes any sort of consensual sexual activity or sexual experimentation, including (mouth) kissing, sex, mutual masturbation, groping, dating and marriage rituals, mutual romantic feelings. Do not count platonic/familial actions like cheek kisses.

–

We ask your questions so you don’t have to! Submit your questions to have them posted anonymously as polls.

[anti-catradora-collection]

TRANSLATING AND GIVING MY HONEST OPINION ABOUT THIS TWITTER THREAD:

⚠️⚠️⚠️⚠️ DO NOT GO AFTER AND DO NOT HARASS THE CREATOR OF THE THREAD I'LL BE COMMENTING HERE. thank you.

"it pisses me off when ppl say they love enemies to lovers and then say that catra//dora is toxic.

like, ENEMIES is not when one person steps on another's toes and gets angry towards them"

keep reading under the cut:

yeah, "enemies" certainly is not when one person steps on another's toes and gets angry towards them. even google knows that. enemies to lovers is completely different from rivals to lovers.

however, c//a aren't enemies either. they have never been.

they were simply abuser x victim. and that's mainly because adora never really felt any hate towards catra. she even tried to make catra join the rebellion multiple times.

additionally, adora knew how to defend herself, but wouldn't do more than she needs.

catra, on the other hand, would relish on BRUTALIZING adora. she even tried to end the whole universe out of spite to adora, willing to kill them both in the process.

and let's not forget: catra did all this with a smile in her face, proud of being able to manipulate and control adora.

they were never mutual enemies. adora mostly viewed catra as someone to fear. most of the time, she felt powerless when the matter was catra. to be honest, even when the matter wasn't her, it's shown that she felt that way. damn, she even had a panic attack because of catra.

and let's not forget how catra and adora's fights are always viewed as "flirtatious/sexy" and, surprisingly (or not), they are always with catra on top while adora is unable to fight back for any reason (be it for an emotional or physical reason, temporarily or not).

the only exception for what i said above is this scene, where i don't even believe adora is being flirtatious (for me, she's simply being smug) and where she's not even talking to catra in person.

of course, there's times where adora physically hurts (or tries to hurt) catra back, but it's solely to DEFEND HERSELF/OTHER PEOPLE. catra takes advantage of adora's kindness cuz she knows she won't be able to cause the same harm as catra does.

NEXT:

"enemies to lovers is ALWAYS toxic in the enemies part. a relationship where you are the other person's mortal enemy is not even possible.we ship catra//dora precisely because they get to the lovers part, and when they get to it, there is no more toxicity."

I'm so sorry to break it to you, but C//A has been toxic before, during and after they were in opposite sides of the war. here is an example of this. catra always made it seem like it's adora who's always abandoning her, but it was catra's CHOICE to stay in the horde.

C//A relationship occurred on an existing pattern: adora accidentally says something that makes catra mad -> catra hits/insults her -> catra runs away, expecting adora to chase after her and feeling like she's rejected if that doesn't happen. it even happened while they were KIDS.

and let's also not forget about catra gaslighting and slapping adora in that one episode while she was going through another panic attack. "catra didn't know something was going on!!!" she literally had "flashbacks" about things that did happen and adora was clearly not okay.

catra could've been a good friend like glimmer was for adora in the hot springs episode, listen to her, try to help and properly calm her down even if she didn't know what was happening, but catra didn't. she insisted on her own view that everything was perfect instead.

catra also makes it seem like adora is the abandoner multiple times in season 5. like girl you're the one who literally abandoned her even in S5 plsss-catra CHOSE to stay in the horde, adora tried to make catra come with her since forever. catra was the one running away.

she even framed adora as being the violent one in their relationship with this scene:

"how am i supposed to fight my own friends?"

"it never stopped you before."

it's almost like catra wasn't the one always trying to hurt and murder adora all the time... lol.

NEXT:

"apart from the abuse that catra (and adora) suffered throughout her childhood AND her fear of abandonment, the only reason catra treated adora the way she did was because she suppressed her feelings in such an absurd way that she was even violent."

uhhh.. no?

you're telling me catra tried to kill adora multiples times and destroy the universe because deep inside her heart catra LOVED adora?

this is honestly giving me "he hits you because he likes you!" vibes. i bet if catra was a man, you wouldn't be saying stuff like this.

plus, shall i say something that may sound a bit... harsh:

THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT. CATRA.

of course catra is traumatized.

of course catra is also abused.

of course all these facts helped building up catra's character.

but nothing justifies the way she treated adora.

"but catra was abused, she was raised in a harsh way, she doesn't know any better!" what about we stop making adora's abuse about her abuser...? everyone kinda seems to forget how catra was also a w4r crim1nal lmao. of course catra deserved love. but not in the way she got.

catra also needed to be held accountable for her actions, which she didn't. "she was brainwashed by horde prime which made her suffer a lot!" okay, and? catra also brainwashed and put adora into a lot of pain and that fact was never once brought up again.

i mean, catra literally was a gen0c1dal w4r crim1nal. she killed lots of people (including glimmer's mother). again, she tried to end the universe. she destroyed villages. she attempted to kill adora multiple times. was she even questioned about it?

no. the princesses immediately take catra in with them as soon as adora says "she's with us now". there was not even a proper discussion about it.

NEXT:

"as soon as she gets sufficiently comfortable in being vulnerable and admitting what she feels to adora, there's no reason for her to be violent because there's nothing else to suppress. the acception of her "true self" breaks the cycle of abuse and that's WHY +"

not gonna comment on it cuz i already said how catra has been abusive during the entire series - even after she has been rescued. "she was going through a lot" and adora was too. It just wasn't fair for catra to treat adora that way simply becuz "adora doesn't want mee! :(".

like, girl, this isn't about you. you ASKED adora to save the world but then you get angry when she decides it's something she NEEDS to do and states that no one else can do that. like ???

NEXT:

"they turn into a couple.

double trouble themselves tell catra exactly what she has been doing during all seasons to hide and deny her own feelings for adora. because these feelings made her feel uncomfortable."

excuse me, double trouble was also wrong about that. starting by the way they said "left you" while turning into adora when we know it wasn't what happened, there's also the fact that their speech wasn't only about catra's "feelings" for adora.

it was also about catra feeling abandoned and rejected by EVERYONE she knew: shadow weaver, scorpia, hordak... or are we going to forget the fact all these people were also in the scene?

but even the show itself tries to make it seem like adora was the abandoner only for the "just this once, stay" quote to make sense. another reminder: spop's writing is very far away from being the best.

NEXT:

"I would NEVER ship catra//dora the way i do if they haven't got a redemption and if the "enemies" part hadn't come to an end. at most, I'd think they have chemistry and potential for making out, but their healthy relationship is only possible due to their happy ending."

i don't even know what to say- this person lost me at "I'd think they have chemistry and potential for making out". why the hell do you think catra abusing adora would be hot, SPECIALLY in a scenario where they keep being "enemies"???? 😭

also, yes, they got a "happy ending". but at what cost?

catra lied to adora and insulted her even during her confession;

catra never really changed, this series simply tried to make it seem like she did (and failed to do so)

adora is now in a supposedly "happy relationship" with her own abuser and sister, while both didn't at least got therapy BEFORE that.

catra didn't need a romance with her victim in order to be happy. she simply needed time to HEAL, just like adora. "but can't they heal as a couple?" no. it just doesn't work like that. you can't love someone else without fully loving yourself first.

NEXT:

"that being said, catra is open to therapy with perfuma, already sees bow and glimmer as besties, says sorry with ease, happily participates on princesses hugs, isn't afraid to show love and care for adora. and that's when a good relationship is born."

catra may be "trying" to be a better person in canon, but she's far from achieving that. you all say "someone needs time to heal before turning into a better person", but then look at catra, whose "redemption arc" was up for half of the last season and applauds it as "the best character development ever". it also doesn't work like that. it doesn't matter how many times catra saves the world if she keeps treating adora like dirt while doing that (guilt tripping, insulting and beating her up, for example).

basically, saying "I'm sorry for everything" once doesn't mean anything if catra, herself, doesn't truly change.

the last tweet of the thread finished with the following sentence:

"kisses and go to therapy"

all i can say is: thanks, op. you too.

[thottybrucewayne]

It's so crazy that people can't have frank discussions about bdsm and Kink without the prude allegations popping up. Like damn, why I gotta be Vanilla™ cause I don't think roleplaying rape, familial sexual abuse, or racist violence is okay? It's so wild you can just say "Yeah, even if you're a survivor who's into that stuff personally, you should be able to understand how this kind of play makes irl kink spaces dangerous." and all of a sudden you're a puritanical prude who hates queer people or whatever. Like aight. Whatever.

[myfandomrealitea]

Not sure if allowed, but I wanted to reply to the anon that asked about giving their incestuous characters a good ending:

Yes, you'll get scorn for portraying it at all, but also people should be smart enough to be able to tell that positively portraying incest is just... Characters experiencing their lives?? Weird shit happens! I certainly don't know your plot but I can sure believe that incest can happen if you so write it - because shit happens. Two siblings having a positive incestuous relationship means nothing in reality itself; they're just characters. That do incest. And are happy. That's all there is too it.

You're not "glorifying" anything. It's that age-old discussion of perspective: write it from the perspective of the siblings, or someone in their environment that supports it, and it will be positive. Write it from the perspective of perhaps their parents, disgusted and horrified, and suddenly it's not so "positive" even if the siblings get a happy ending.

I wish you the best of luck for the story, though, anon, no matter your choice. Remember that having fun is more important than this bullshit and prioritize your health at all costs!!

You make a good point about reading from perspectives. All too often people fall into the trap of reacting to a story as The Reader, and evaluating the story from the perspective of The Reader rather than recognising the actual character perspectives the story is written in and for.

Far too many people insert themselves into books as the personal perspective within it, when for a not insignificant portion of literature the actual point is that you are supposed to be inside the character's life and mind.

[flagsandtags]

proshippers when i wont justify shipping literal incest and pedophilia just bc theyre traumatized and tell them to stop interacting with me:

[pollsnatural]

Based on the current results of this poll, most destiel shippers who are Cas fans would like to see Cas kiss men who aren't Dean. So next question for destiel shippers...

The same poll for Dean.