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#tumblr scares me be nice
mushyposts · 4 months
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Im gonna put this here and hope to god I dont end up just talking to the void and being one of those posts ppl see and go "oh its so embarrassing they posted asking a question and no one replied omg..." (I dont think this idk if anyone actually thinks this but its scary!!) i am writing a Very large ATLA fic re-write, it is ur classic Hakoda + crew adopt Zuko except this starts pre-canon, just weeks after Zuko gets his burn! it is focused on love, its many different forms and is called "No thing defines a man like love" on Ao3! So, in saying this, I am curious about peoples opinions and preferences when it comes to re-writes where the focus isnt the ACTUAL canon timeline. (mine is focused on pre-canon, has a lot of flashbacks from different POV's and I wanna do a lot of stuff for post-canon perhaps!) I know I personally am not the biggest fan of re-reading WHOLE chapters with each one being an episode, with the only difference being "Zuko is here now! Woo!" But Im not sure how else to approach it.... Im thinking potentially doing a like,,, flash speed run of the episode with it focusing on certain parts where Zuko's presence WOULD make a difference, focusing on parts we dont see (like the travelling between cities!) and exploring how Zuko's presence/lack of presence would change certain events. I also kind of dont wanna re-write the whole episodes, I've technically mapped them out a bit, but my GOD its a huge undertaking and idk if i wanna do that!! So pls, give me ur thoughts, idk how that works on tumblr but i wanna know what other ppl think!! And if ur a reader from ao3 coming to here from my last update omg hii.....
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hark! it's the cringefail loser squad from on high
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just-posting-kalone · 7 months
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Athena Cykes!!
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beebeedibapbeediboop · 10 months
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Baldur's gate character ref sheet commission for @erikaii <3
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sliptoken · 6 months
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So I’ve been in love with Sleep Token for a whole while now and it’s so embarrassing to admit but I really want to learn more about them as a people but I still can’t tell them apart really and I’ve been dreading asking for some help but I’ve been too embarrassed
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tubbytarchia · 4 months
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I have so many smallidarity thoughts but Im scared of having my head skewered on a stick if I spoke of them. You guys dont know the thoughts that plague my mind. You wouldn't survive a day in my twisted world.
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skriblee-ksk · 5 months
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I drew Yuu Shi, @boopshoops OC!!!! Because I love her!!!!! My beloved tryhard girlboss!!!!!
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++Kiyuu fangirl doodle, as she does love pretty people. Sadly she traded confidence for social acceptance so she won’t say it out loud but i can bet you she is looking (respectfully).
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Both my parents actually suffer from HORRID emotional dysregulation and are prone to snapping and going into rages. My sister is the same way tbh. I am now realizing this is why they are constantly baffled by the question of whether or not I am mad at them.
I don't have external meltdowns.
I could. I don't let it happen.
I keep my rage on the inside and stay pretty quiet about it. It's just as strong as theirs [physically shaking nose bleed from high blood pressure kind of bad], but like as a kid I saw how terrifying it was to be around [dad breaking dishes, mom putting our lawn chairs into walls] and I just internalized that I wasn't going to wear that anger on the outside.
So my mother genuinely cannot tell if I am just being quiet or if I am silently hearing the dial-up noises of pure rage. This has lead her to both making strong and confident statements like "You are a pacifist who would never hurt a fly U.U" but also acting like I am secretly dangerous maybe... It's because she has never seen me snap.
She knows what her temper is like [throwing chairs through walls], she knows what my father's temper is like [pick up child and toss out door], and she can tell I am being tested, but she doesn't know what happens when I snap or where that breaking point is.
Her -perhaps unhinged- solution to this, my whole life, has been to do things that should obviously enrage me or shut me down completely, like ignoring important boundaries, repeatedly, punishing me for expressing emotions or needs at all, etc... And then to constantly ask me if I am angry with her when I get too quiet [right after near directly telling me to shut up].
It has occurred to me now, they have never once seen me lose my temper, so they literally just can't tell if I am angry at them. My sister is easy, my mother fights and screams with my sister constantly, my mother understands this. My mother doesn't have any grasp of feelings or boundaries that are not screamed at her [apparently, and I fear my sister is the same way]. Her and my sister are close despite constant fucking fighting because they understand each other.
They are trying to get me to engage the same way and it is not working. I realize now that this has been hard for them.
I was so successfully taught to suppress my emotions, by being punished for any outburst, that rage quiet looks the same as any other kind of quiet from the outside. To them anyway.
I did tell her. For the record. I used my words. I did tell her very calmly that my response to rage, in order to avoid doing the things that terrified me as a child, was to simply leave [the autistic urge to GTFO]. When a situation or person causes too much of the dial-up rage noise, I simply extract myself from that situation, up to and including never speaking to a person again. I explained this calmly. I explained it calmly 100 times and I explained that I explain myself calmly as my rage response 1-5 [also pretty much every other negative emotion tbh], and I told her that what came next was me simply opting out and fucking off. I told her this. I couldn't understand why she never took me seriously, or why she never fucking understood.
I couldn't understand what made her like this.
But it's the same problem I have with everyone else multiplied by a factor of 10.
If I am explaining myself calmly, they can't understand that it's actually serious or that I am actually upset. ESPECIALLY because they read me as "female" and women "aren't that rational" so if I am not screaming and crying about something, which I never do, people assume I can't be upset and it isn't serious.
And then after having my boundaries ignored too many times despite having calmly explained how and why it's a problem [shaking inside or not]... I leave. I leave and everyone gets upset like this is unexpected behaviour, even though I told them 50 times that is how I would respond if they kept doing *the thing.*
And for neurotypical people especially, they are expecting there to be a disconnect between what someone says they need or feel and what their actually boundaries and feelings are, and they expect the latter to be demonstrated with emotions. Telling them bluntly you do not function that way somehow never helps?
My mother isn't just looking for normal yelling or a few tears to know I am serious, whether or not I do those either [I don't], she's looking for an explosion to know there's a problem at all.
Fucked if I know how she proceeds through life this way in general or if this is just her expectation of her own kids???
And I couldn't get why my mother couldn't read my emotions and didn't seem to think I have any. It's because she's testing for the rage limit to see where my 'actual' limit is instead of taking my word for it. Never the fuck mind that she could simply *not* test at my boundaries instead of letting me have them. Separate issue.
I couldn't figure out what made her *like this*
She's expecting me to throw a giant meltdown violent tantrum at people when I have 'actually' had enough. Maybe she got away with those being like 5'4" in another time, but I am the size of the average man, I do not get to have giant screaming rages, whether or not people perceive me consciously as a woman, and least of all because a lot of people -at least unconsciously- read me as 'masculine' or at least always "they guy" of the situation compared to all other women and some men [bigger stronger and more rational, more able to just absorb the damage and let it go so the less rational screaming/crying one doesn't have to be dealt with]. Even if it was in me to be willing to terrify people [usually never], there are such limited instances where it wouldn't just blow back on me. Potentially very dangerously.
I am going to be the quiet calm one. You are going to have to let me use my words, bitch.
So she kept ignoring my boundaries until I had to cut her out of my life, and she probably doesn't understand and probably thinks it feels sudden -after 36 long years of bullshit- abrupt and unfair.
But I told her hundreds of times.
I probably should have just screamed at her.
#good stay out of our yard' and he didn't seem to know what to say to that#but other than that I don't think anyone in my adult life has ever seen me turn aggressive at all to the point where people 100% like to#play games of testing my patience and my boundaries because they think my tolerance is infinite#but like I have autistic rage tantrums on both sides of my family and they are just happening inside my head#And somehow it took me until now to realize that being that way was actually -expected- of me by my parents and especially my mother#and that by keeping myself outwardly level headed to be considerate I actually took away whatever signals she can understand#to have empathy for how I must be feeling#I mean it's still all on her#but it makes so much sense of why she's fucking *like this*#And why my sister thinks I hate her just because -she- stopped texting -me-#but that fucking guy#Every time I was like#In my adult life I have screamed at someone ONE whole time and it was 1000% deserved#And I threw heavy objects around one whole other time and in my defense I didn't do it in front of the guy he just felt the ground shaking#heard the thuds and came back to the logs blocking his path because that fucker wouldn't stop parking in our yard after being asked#and then TOLD not to about 10 times because he was acting entitled to just park in our yard and was crushing my plants???#seriously I don't know what his deal was but he wouldn't stop telling me how much the ground shaking scared him like it was supposed#to get my pity like I think this guy took one look at the logs I had just tossed down and was suddenly afraid of this “woman” he was#bullying in their own yard and so my ability to feel bad for scaring him had gone straight out the fucking window#I looked at him and said stop parking in our yard instead of your own you are killing my plants#he'd just fucking be like 'well the last people to live here let us D: :)“ and I'd be like ”good for them?“ ”stop“#and he'd just keep doing it#I was having a week of insomnia and was finally having the best dream#the kind of sex dream you have like twice in your life#and this fucker had just gotten some noisy ass little bike with a spoiler on it#and starts it up right under my window at 3am from IN OUR FUCKING YARD#so I had a nice long anger nap and just after he got home from work and was sleeping in his house#I picked up these chunks of deadwood tree from the back#there was like 3-4 logs that used to be a WHOLEASS fucking oak tree Like these logs were not as heavy as they -looked- but they were still#this fucker deleted half the tags I wrote and I am not retyping that fuck you tumblr so fucking hard
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necrotic-nephilim · 3 months
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about me
hi, i'm luciferos. i'm 22, disabled, Deaf, queer, and a general menace. my pronouns are they/them. this is an 18+ batcest blog. i'm pro-fandom and pro-kink. I avidly support SALS, YKINMKATO, and DLDR. most of what i write is of the darkfic, dead dove variety. i'm a fan of the comics, mainly the pre-Flashpoint era of the Batfam. some of my favorite comics are: Red Robin (2009), Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood, Birds of Prey (2010), Young Justice (1998), Huntress (1989), Sword of Azrael (2022), Grayson (2014), Robin War, and the Question (1986). i can be a comics purist, but i just tend to leave alone fandom content i dislike and i think everyone should have fun with their blorbos, whether they've read the comics or not.
my DMs are open for anyone who wants to chat, make friends, or just yell about your favorite character/ships. asks are also open if you wanna send a headcanon, question, or just, you know. yell. please feel free to come talk to me, i thrive on being asked my opinion on things! my (mostly unused) main blog is @devilbonesofmetal, so that's where follows and likes come from. i don't do DNIs, your internet experience is your job to curate, so feel free to block me if you're uncomfortable with what i post.
if you ever want to create a translation/podfic/fanart/etc or write something inspired by one of my fics or posts, you have *complete* permission to do so! just tag me because i'd love to see it too!
some of my favorite ships are: Tim/Jason, Tim/Dick, Tim/Damian, Dick/Bruce, Jason/Bruce, Ra's/Tim, Slade/Tim, Slade/Dick, Tim/Bruce, Jean-Paul/Tim, Cass/Tim, and Robin Pile.
and some of my favorite characters are: Tim Drake, Dick Grayson, Cass Cain, Helena Bertinelli, Luke Fox, Jean-Paul Valley, Bette Kane, Kara Zor-L, Zinda Blake, and Slade Wilson.
i write fanfiction, but i write anonymously on ao3 (for reasons explained here) so if you'd like to see all my stuff, here's a link to my tumblr masterlist and here's a link to my ao3 series, both of which contain all the fics i've written. aside from the typical ship and character tags, my vague tagging system on this blog is:
necrotic festerings - any ship/fandom metas i've written
necrotic answerings - answering any asks
necrotic writings - my fics
necrotic works in progress - rambling about fics i'm working on
divine and necrotic - tag for my partner @divine-dominion and i being gay on main
necrotic apcryopha - tag for my other partner @eebuckley and i also being gay on main
necrotic nuisance - my shitposting/low effort/non-serious tag
and, just for fun, some of the more interesting metas i've written:
why DC x DP crossovers are so popular
why the Batfamily fandom doesn't interact with canon & related thoughts
JayTim in the New-52 Deep Dive
"why aren't ships involving the women in the Batfam considered Batcest?"
advice for getting into pre-Flashpoint comics
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qwerty019283ytrewq · 16 days
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I came up with it yesterday, well, the details, I came up with it yesterday, the plot itself has been with me for a long time.
It's going to be so sweet now that your teeth will rot in a second, and the plush will tickle your nose for three days. The unicorn is in fear. He knows that he will flood three cities and six villages with shining tears.
✨️Imagine✨️
The story should be about their long for each other. Max and Daniel are still drivers. They are very close friends, but nothing more. heh.
It was a great day off, a break between two races, Max was sleeping the best he could when Daniel decided to ruin his day at 7 a.m. Somehow, magically, Max manages to get out of bed, get to the door, and not kill this jerk. He even notices that Daniel looks pretty at 7 a.m. 7 o'clock in the morning!!! What the hell?!
"Daniel, what are you doing here? Why is it so early? If it's because of the fabric samples for your merch or you went out for a run and decided to take me, then there will be 19 pilots on the starting grid."
"I'm totally fucked." Dan answers, and only now does the Dutch notice that besides looking great, he also looks like he's desperate.
"Isabella wants a princess-style party, and I'm so upset that I'm going to miss everything again...It was such a stupid thought, but I miss them so much, and now she, they're all going to hate me."
"Red Bull"
"What? What the... "
"Give me a drink of Red Bull, and I'll listen to the whole story, not just your lamentations."
That's what it turned out to be. During another call, Isabella said she wanted a birthday party in the style of a Disney princess. Daniel, being gentle and loving, feeling a great sense of guilt that he spends too little time with his family, didn't hesitate to announce that he would bring everyone to Monaco, they would watch the race and after that, Isabella would get her best birthday party.
Only now, Dan doesn't know how to arrange a birthday for a little girl, he doesn't know what kind of princess she is talking about, and if he arranges tickets from Australia to Monaco, passes to the Paddock, then happy holidays...He's so fucked up.
Max sighs and rolls his eyes. Daniel is so soft when it comes to family.
"We'll have to save this, you idiot"
First of all, they decide to find out which princess they are talking about. Rapunzel. Dan says that you can't just figure out the name of the character. You need to understand the essence. So they end up on Max's couch watching a cartoon for little girls. Not even Cars. Or The monster corporation. Rapunzel. He is a Formula 1 racer. He has already won 3 titles and has more than 50 Grand Prix victories. He watches as the chamelion on the screen puts his tongue in the guy's ear, and the girl is afraid to leave the house, although she dreamed about it yesterday. Somewhere on the edge of Max's brain, a question appears. Did seventeen-year-old Dan feel something like that when he left for Europe? And the rest of the mind laughs at one of the portraits of the thief in the cartoon because "Look, Daniel, his nose is very similar to yours!" For the last thought, Max gets a pillow in his face.
A week passes. During this time, Dan managed to book tickets, not without the help of Max, he came up with and organized the whole holiday. Of the guests, however, only the family will be there, but Isabella isn't too upset by this thought. She was promised a chameleon. Michelle, Daniel's sister, really doesn't know about it yet.
During the race weekend, Max arrives at the Red Bull hospitality and realizes from the giggling whispers that the Ricciardo family is already here. Why the giggling whispers, you ask. And you saw Dan with a baby in each hand? That's it. Max, as always (CANON), goes to say hello. Grace hugs and kisses him on both cheeks, Joe shakes his hand tightly and pats him on the shoulder, Michelle and her husband greet, Isaac gives Max a high five, and sweet Izzy stands next to Daniel, looks confused and worried, holds her uncle's hand and looks at Max.
"Hello, Isabella."
"Hi Max."
"Come on, princess, what did you want to say to give to Max?" Dan speaks softly to his niece.
The girl takes a postcard out of her small purse and hands it to Max. For some reason, Daniel also looks worried, as if this is his postcard, and if Max opens it now, it will be written there...Hush, Max... This is just your nonsense...
The postcard is pink and purple, with a yellow sun. Max swallows. He knows this picture. He helped hang a garland with flags with a similar pattern on a yacht rented by Dan for a children's party. He glances at Daniel, who is holding Isabella's hand with one hand and nibbling on the other...More precisely, the cuticle on the thumb. Max opens the postcard, and there are neat but too big children's letters.
The inscription reads: "Sir Max Emilian Verstappen, Princess of the Australian continent from the house of Riccardo (yes, yes, I know that the surname should be different, just skip this), the first of her name, invites you to her birthday." The place on the postcard has run out, so at the very bottom, in small letters (clearly in an adult handwriting, Max kind of recognizes this handwriting), it says "Uncle Daniel will tell you the details."
Max has to clear his throat and blink hard a couple of times.
"This is... this...Thank you, Isabella...Or Your Highness. I...Of course I will come."
Isabella jumps with delight and claps her hands.
"Cool!!! Uncle Daniel will tell you where it will be and when, because I don't know myself yet."
As Dan's family later finds out. And as Max knew from the very beginning. It's a yacht. To Max's taste, it's big and ridiculous, but Isabella squeals with joy.
"Are we going to ride her?!" Her princess dress rustles with expensive fabrics, and flowers made of precious stones sparkle in the light of the lights of the still huge and wonderful yacht.
Daniel also seems childishly excited, grabs his niece's hand, and they finally climb onto the deck. The Australian did his best. He did everything to make Izzy's appearance as similar as possible to the appearance of the princess from the cartoon, and the holiday program was just crazy. Daniel himself put on cream suit trousers and an aquamarine waistcoat to look like Eugene. His curls and nose certainly distinguished him from the cartoon character, but no one objected, especially Max. The Dutch is more surprised how two pieces of clothing from completely different costumes can look so good on Dan. Maybe it's not the clothes. Take it easy, Max, take it easy. He undid one button on his shirt and held out his hand to Grace to help her on board.
The holiday program began with the words, "Do you have a dream, Isabella?" Then it was up to the animators, some group that agreed to play songs from a Disney cartoon, and Daniel's enthusiasm. Grace, Joe, Isaac, Michelle, Tom (let's say that's the name of Michelle's husband in this story), and of course Max also took part in separate programs. Take fencing on pans, for example. Max got so into the taste, and Dan cheated and tickled him so much that Max almost hit him like in a cartoon. Absolutely by accident, honestly.
Max had been to royal receptions before... He likes this one the most. Especially because of how Daniel is beaming with pride and joy that he organized all this. From the yacht to the last apple on the table. Well, it's not like Blake's help wasn't needed at all. And, of course, Dan didn't pull the yacht out of the hat with a magic wand. There's another wizard there. He has a magic snowboard... And the magical wife, who is the sister of Max and Dan's colleague. (Well, you get it)
And here is the most important point. The cake should be served. It should be big and ridiculous, like a yacht. Daniel looks lost, Max knows that he needs to distract Isabella so that the cake can be taken out, but it seems Dan forgot to entrust it to someone.
"I saw a dolphin!" Max speaks and everyone looks at him.
"It can't be! Where?!" Isabelle screams, grabs his hand (because she can't go out on the open deck alone), and pulls him with her onto the open deck. They run out and approach the handrails.
"Where were the dolphins?"
"Somewhere in the water." Well done, buddy, keep it up.
Izzy calms down a little and looks at the water surface.
"It's beautiful here"
"Did you enjoy your holiday?"
"It was so great!!! Do you think Uncle Danny can do something like this for Christmas?"
Before Max can answer, he notices a light behind the girl. It's a paper flashlight... And then another one... And then the music appeared, which was playing faintly in the background, and now it sounds loud and clear.
All those days watching from the windows,
All those years outside looking in All that time never even knowing...
Daniel appears like a dream on deck and... He takes Izzy away to dance. The rest of Riccardo appear on the deck, dancing, in pairs, not in pairs, everything is beautiful, cute and magical, Max stands there and takes his breath away and something gets in his eye. He rubs his eye, and when he looks up again, Dan is standing in front of him, smiling his little, special smile and holding out his hand. And to hell with everything! Max smiles back and accepts his invitation.
They're dancing, the atmosphere is like that... magical... they don't want to say. They just dance, look into each other's eyes, and smile. Max has angels singing in his head. He wants to stay in this moment so much...
All those years living in a blur
All that time never truly seeing
Things, the way they were
Now he’s here shining in the starlight
Now he’s here, suddenly I know
If he’s here it’s crystal clear
I’m where I’m meant to go
Daniel sang
KISS!!!
Max wraps his arms around Daniel's face and KISSES him!!!
When they finally broke away from each other, when they leaned their foreheads against each other...
"You used your niece's birthday to admit that...Well..."
Daniel laughs softly and kisses him on the lips. Someone is tugging at Dan's waistcoat.
"Can we finally call him Uncle?"
This title is more expensive for Max than an officer's.
A month later
"What do you mean it was Isabella's plan?!?!"
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quailxcrossing · 1 month
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some more Tuesfries Human AU! ive wanted to draw something more of Gwen and her fursuiting! she made her suit herself with lots of trial and error but she got it! being in her suit gives her so much confidence, its like a completely different Gwen when compared to her usual anxious self! and I was reminded of when I drew Ruse (midveil) in Winter Soldier cosplay......hhhhhh that's. just for me.
little doodle I did with Magic's arrival too! yeah.........
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our-lesboy-experience · 5 months
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yesterday i put "fuck off if you don't fuck with lesboys" in my discord bio and today i realized i was kicked from a server and banned by the owner because of it 😭
i get that people don't like us very much but omg nobody said anything to me as to why i was kicked until i got into contact with one of the people from the server💔💔
kicking someone out because they have a queer identity you don't like.....but then it's still just "im not queerphobic!!!1!1!1!"
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xxoolii · 1 year
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your sin of lust
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hii, im goo! freshly 18 so please be kind to me.
i’m really obsessed with danmei at the moment so please feel free to talk to me about it or give me some book recommendations. currently reading tgcf, 2ha and yuwu :D
please keep this page 18+ anyone without any age indicators will be blocked immediately. please honour and respect this simple rule!
what i will write!
nsfw
fluff
gore (only lightly)
character smut (if of age)
underaged characters SFW!!
what i will not write!
(the basics)
underage nsfw
straight up exhibitionism
extreme power imbalances
and that’s about it!!
please feel free to send me requests, questions or suggestions! my requests aren’t open as of now, but that will change!
thank you for reading!! i hope you have a lovely time here!! in my garden of lust!! <3
about me
master list (to be made)
IF YOU KNOW ME PLEASE GOD LEAVE
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a-r00m-with-a-m00se · 2 years
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sleepy
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sorry for only saying this type of shit lately but i kinda wanna drive a car straight into a brick wall at the highest speed possible
#trying to keep it together so bad because i already know the problems and solutions and whatnot but i cannot do anything#i desperately just need to do something. accomplish any task. actually several would be nice. but i cannot stand just letting life go by#while i watch other people have the things i want. or even metaphorically living my dream like. that should be me why am i settling for thi#i hate even talking about this because i feel so stupid when i know it's not even a real tangible problem and that i actually DO have real#problems to tackle and the ability to do so but i'm choosing to be upset over the stupidest things i could possibly be sad about#and i can't even be sad about it in a normal way i'm cycling through like several different reactions to smth that isn't even real#or if it is real i literally do not have tanglible evidence for it one way or another like i'm driving myself insane for no reason#i can't even get catharsis because all i'm doing is digging a deeper hole for something i never should've gone back into in the first place#because i KNOW how i am i KNOW how i react to things and i still chose to do it lmao.#and i continue to choose to go through this shit instead of actively trying to change my life because... i'm lazy? and stupid? idk#negative self-talk isn't gonna get me to do anything either so let's just say i'm feeling particularly unmotivated like usual#i hated being a teenager but i really do miss when all my problems just amounted to 'someone was mean to me on tumblr today :(' or i failed#a test in chemistry or something. like i yearn for that simplicity becasue at this point all i'm doing is ruining my own life LMAO#i'm too scared to live i'm too scared to die so i just sit here and fantasize that life could be amazing if i wait#and i'll magically get everything i've ever wanted if i just wait long enough. and i know it isn't true and i still wait for it to happen.#because honestly like. i think deep down i am just convinced i will fail at anything i do when that shouldn't be what scares me.#what scares me should be never even allowing myself to fail because i never tried to do anything at all with myself or my life#like. wake the fuck up. get off your ass and put in the effort. learn some skills. gain independence and stability and discipline and do it#just live please i'm begging you just live so i can be happy don't i deserve to be happy... why am i not letting myself be happy#i'm literally keeping myself trapped in this negative feedback loop ON PURPOSE because teehee shiny toy#and it doesn't matter if the love is real it doesn't matter how i feel like i'm just using it as a distraction i can't say it's motivation#because it's barely motivated me at all. i have to start being realistic. 25 & just realizing you actually have to participate in your life#anyways. i've cried i've agonized i've pictured killing myself in 30 different ways. i think the only way i'm gonna feel better is#to just actually try this time without giving up. wish me luck
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riisume · 13 days
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I feel a little bad that I'm pretty cold to people on DA or anywhere who give me bad vibes but like... After all the bad experiences I've had with people, especially on DA, I have a hard time feeling completely bad about protecting myself and keeping most people at arm's length...
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