#tuc fan theory

[quohotos]

Thoughts about bonds/bonding

This was something I was already planning to write up but then the latest return to regalia episode opened the flood gates and filled in some missing pieces for me. What follows is my own educated guesses and headcannon, very little of this is explicitly in the text of the books. Understand that much of this is my own headcannon, though I'll try my best to justify it with the text.

(also note that since I was an audio book kid I don't actually know if it's spelled flyer or flier and I'm going to get it wrong more than once and you're just going to have to live with that)

Luxa says that it wasn't normal for her to bond with Aurora so early, but that an exception was made as almost a form of therapy after the death of her parents. The same exception was made for Hazard and Thalia. We aren't explicitly told how old Henry was when he bonded with Ares, but I'm assuming it was before adulthood given how all four of them (Luxa, Henry, Ares, and Arora) have a storied history before the events of the first book. Henry had to be younger than 16 when they bonded (16 being the age of legal maturity in the underland, will amend if I'm misremembering), which isn't surprising given that he's Henry and he's never played by the rules. This raises the question of the bats' ages... we aren't ever told that. I would assume that the bats are of similar ages to their bonds, but I have no evidence to back that up.

In the Marks of Secret Ripred explains that rats grow up incredibly fast and reach full maturity in about a year, and that humans are uncommon in how long they take to grow up. It's not clear how long the bats take to grow up. Would Thalia have become an adult while Hazard was still a little kid, or would they have grown up concurrently? I can't say either way. One thing I can say with more confidence is that regardless of their ages, Aurora and Ares probably see their respective bonds like younger siblings. Obviously, being bonded to someone is a completely different relationship that we can't exactly map onto what we have in the overland, but I think that's a close approximation.

So Why and How do regular people get bonded?

The most surefire way to get bonded would be to join the military (something you can do from a very young age... I mean they have armor on hand for 12 year olds and we see seven year olds doing military drills in the Prophecy of Bane... yaaaaay). In the military you will be assigned to mixed species units and it's just sort of assumed that they'll all end up pairing up and bonding.

For civilians there are likely special yearly festivals that the two kingdoms share with the express purpose of giving people a chance to find bonds. My guess would be right around the time of the harvest when there's plentiful food to go around. After a hard year a bunch of flyers come to regalia and everyone has a big party to celebrate. There are probably specially organized games of whatever sport Gregor walked in on back in the first book. While specific flyers are probably scouted for sports and more importantly the military there's still plenty of opportunities for common Regalian and flyers to interact and meet.

What does bonding do for a flyer?

We see so much of the Underland Chronicles from the point of view of royal humans. To them, the benefits are obvious. Humans can't fly, bonding gives them access to someone who can. But why would a flier seek out a human bond? That just sounds like an obligation, right?

The Regalians have incredibly advanced medical technology. I've roasted them before for their metalworking, but their chemistry/biotech is unparalleled. They're able to produce antibiotics, as well as synthesize plagues and their cures. They have ways of treating illnesses that the overland doctors (allegedly) cannot. We also see that they have incredibly reliable and safe oral administered sedatives. Anesthesiology is such and advanced and risky field, and they seem to have cracked it to the point where people can safely be sedated for trivial maters without anyone batting an eye.

The arrival of humans (as permanent residents, native people made limited journeys to there before the arrival of Sandwich) in the Underland definitely raised everyone's average life expectancy by decades... before lowering it immediately afterwards through endless wars. In Curse of the Warmbloods someone steals the pain killers and Gregor realizes that the rats couldn't even use it if they wanted to because they don't have hands to open the bottle. Much of the Regalian's medical technology still requires a human to administer it. You need humans to carve splints and set them, you need humans to administer injections, you need humans to cut hair and perform surgery. Spinners can do some things to stop bleeding, but any significantly complex medical procedure is going to need human hands involved. Think about things like glasses and prosthetics, things we don't normally associate as medicine but would still kinda are. Humans probably manufacture and prescribe bat-glasses.

For a flyer, traveling long distances without a human bond is incredibly risky. If something bad happens, even if you have other flyers with you, you could die from what would otherwise be preventable causes. Bitten by mites? Who's going to apply the the ointment? Wing dislocated, who's going to pop it back into place (this one literally happened to Aurora). There are also probably some foods that can't safely be eaten raw, but a human could prepare. Heck, a human can boil water to purify it, or place traps that catch pray that otherwise wouldn't be hunt-able. Humans can catch fish that live too deep in the water for a flyer to peruse. Humans are adaptable. Your bond is your Swiss army knife, adaptable and versatile even if sometimes fragile.

Any flier trying to pursue and education needs to be bonded. You wanna go to bat-college? You gotta bring a human. You'll need one to transcribe all your essays and help you read books. The fliers definitely have a rich oral history that they all maintain, but there are some things that you just need a human to access. The average flier probably doesn't have a bond, but the higher in status definitely do for the educational purposes alone. While the queen herself doesn't have a bond, in fact it seems almost frowned upon in the royal family (Nike doesn't have one despite getting very close to a human who would like to bond with her in the later books), you bet your ass that every middle manager and local bat official has a bond who takes care of paperwork and accounting.

It's a funny parallel how flyers of low status like Ares can suddenly be whisked into royalty by being bonded to Henry, the same thing probably happens to humans. You could be Joe Shmo nobody (or I guess this is the underland so Joeth Shmavetus) who would probably live out their whole life carving stone jars, but you do numbers good so the bat-secretary of bat-state bonds with you and now you're really important.

That means that there are probably lots of places within the flyers lands that are built specifically to house humans long term. We see a little bit of that in the first book, but there's probably a lot more out of sight. Special areas where an important fliers' bonds can live and do their taxes and whatnot.

Bonding is usually an egalitarian process. It seems like both sides and both factions have to consent to it. When Gregor insinuates that one side owns the other he gets massive push-back. With that being said, I'm almost certain that Ares had little control in the matter over bonding with Henry. I think there's kind of an unstated rule that the royal families are going to bond with whoever they please, and that turning down a bond of high status would be a massive faux pas. Ares probably didn't feel like saying no was even on the table.

What about non-flyer bonds?

Oh yeah, code of claw spoilers beyond this point. Now that everyone's doing the reread and we're probably bringing a few first time readers into the fold I'm going to spoiler mark this part just in case since I'll be discussing things that happen in the last installment

Luxa and Ripred bond to usher in peace. This is treated as something that has never happened before but that the rules don't explicitly forbid. Henry jokes about people bonding to the crawlers, but in a way that portrays it as stupid and pathetic rather than impossible. In doing so she also symbolically brings the Gnawer into the spiritual fold that the flyers and humans already share.

Humans and Gnawers would then be allowed to bond with each-other. It might take generations for that to happen in earnest, sicne both sides have so much trauma and resentment built up, but maybe decades in the future the younger generations will find it in themselves to do so.

The fact that Luxa bonding with Ripred doesn't break her bond with Aurora sets the precident that you can bond with as many people as you want so long as you never have two of one species. I do not think Aurora is that happy about that, and I doubt she sees Ripred as her own bond. It's possible though, that in the future you could have big groups of underlanders who are all united by one bond. A whole bad batch rogues gallery of a flyer, a gnawer, a human, and a nibbler who each bring something special to the group.

Though never explicitly stated, I think it probably goes without saying that Hamnet and Frill were bonds. It definitely wasn't done the proper way, probably just informally in the jungle with nobody else observing, but still. A bond is a bond.

[quohotos]

I mean, they're called the Gnawers, this is what they do. There's probably a lot of discussion about the merits of different teeth shapes. Ones that prioritize long term health vs. combat utility vs. General utility. I'd imagine that teeth shapes are similar to haircuts, but even more culturally significant. There also might be a lot of subtlety to it that humans just don't notice because they just see "rat teeth"

Knowing Ripred to be the Messy Diva that he is, I wouldn't be surprised if he has a very high maintenance shape to his teeth that maximizes lethality... But he absolutely does not need it to your ass, it's total overkill and showmanship.

It’s mentioned in marks of secret that ripred has a usual style he files his teeth into. Do we think it’s a “standard rodent” type teeth shape or does he do some kind of fangs. Thoughts?

[kindlespark]

hello, this is the anon who sent august that really long fhjy ask - thanks for your thoughts!! they helped me understand some of the season's strengths that weren't as apparent to my tastes - i think you're so right that the temple was a high point and i greatly sympathize with the sentiment of like, it all could've been so much more compelling if the bad kids had keyed into that more (which i think is also partly on brennan's presentation of info as GM, ofc - not saying it's anyone's responsibility alone). i'm still not sold on porter that much, but i can understand your perspective and i do appreciate some of his moments - i enjoyed him being a terrible teacher to gorgug because of the tension it created within the party (isn't this bad teaching? is it not? that self-doubt was really dramatically satisfying, especially in the twist payoff). i also think you're right that the finale truly muddies the waters of what the ratgrinders' thematic positioning was - as much sense as it makes that they're genderbent foils, it feels like each member gets less and less pointed - kipperlily and riz are the clearest parallel followed by kristen and buddy, but then like ruben and fig's interactions were essentially just bits, oisin and adaine basically boil down to differing access to generational wealth, and then gorgug/maryann and ivy/fabian are basically just like rage/apathy and ranged/melee. and i don't necessarily think fleshing this all out would've made the season good, but i think (and i want to say this came up in the podcast) it was overambitious/overcomplex to combine the ratgrinders' story with porter's - hence the very confused finale. on a more positive note, i actually totally agree that the downtime system was fun and thematic! the reason i cited that aspect as a negative is more because of the eventual execution, where a lot of the ratgrinder elements got sidelined and relegated to "we'll resolve that later" - as flavorful as it was, there were times when i felt like it didn't mesh with the beats brennan expected or it stymied the group's efforts to investigate things in favor of siloing them. this is a more meta criticism but another reason i don't quite gel with the porter story is because it's the reason brennan asked emily to play as fig this season even though she didn't want to, and while i trust that she genuinely chose to go along with him in that, it definitely felt like she (and brennan) struggled to find a new throughline/arc for fig (especially since the ruben thing went nowhere) and i don't feel like that sacrifice was worth what we got with regard to porter (and ruben, as her foil) - when i think of fig's storyline this season it just feels kind of empty/reactive. anyway, i hope it's clear i don't say this to argue with your opinions and i certainly don't begrudge anyone hoping for a satisfying narrative from d20 especially considering their past successes (i couldn't agree more that fhsy and tuc are some of their finest work in this regard - easily two of my favorite seasons alongside acofaf!). i'm still exploring my relationship to subtextual readings of actual plays - i love literary criticism so i appreciate many fan theories as emotional/philosophical exercises, but with TTRPGs i often have a harder time as compared to pre-written material given their more improvisatory/fluctuating nature. as such, the shooting schedule looms large here, and i mourn What Could've Been if the cast had gotten to rest and reflect between sessions right alongside you... ah well, there's always another season <3

hello!!! thank u for a really great ask!!! sorry it took me so long to get to it, i literally haven't been logged into tumblr on desktop since i saw it and typing up a good reply on mobile would've been impossible LOL

i pretty much agree with all your points here; especially the one with fig's arc this season. i think emily should've trusted her gut and retired her after her near perfect arc in fhsy, and that brennan shouldn't have had her in this season just for the porter reveal (which could've been a fun twist even with a new character, given that emily would've still had her suspicions). her arc this season is rly meandering and inconclusive which is such a shame. the problem is that i just REALLY love porter as a villain LOL. or rather, i love porter as a concept of the villain he could've been but that was never really treated seriously as such by the show. he represents so much of what i thought this season's themes would address--he's a symbol (as a teacher) of the unfair and fucked up school system and the power it holds over kids, as well as the concepts of rage and manipulation and radicalisation and revenge. that shit is super interesting to me (also as a teacher), and if all of this was engaged with it would've been incredible. alas!

but yeah me and august were talking abt ur ask like ur literally right and we wish we had ur foresight for the season tho LMAO. like perhaps my blinders were on because truly up until the last three episodes brennan was giving me everything, conceptually, that i wanted. i wanted trg to be sympathetic villains, and they were! i wanted kipperlilly and lucy to be best friends and have tragic yuri potential, and they did! i wanted jace to also be a victim of porter's, and he was! there was a moment before the last three episodes where i was convinced nothing could go wrong and this would be my favourite d20 season ever LMFAOOOOOO OH HOW THE PRIDE COMES BEFORE THE FALL

wrt literary criticism and d20, i totally get what you mean. i've been a real hater about this season but i'm usually pretty forgiving about the improvisatory and comedic aspects of d20 seasons believe it or not LMAO. m&m is one of my favourite d20 seasons of all time, i do not care that the ending flopped spectacularly bc of the tone, dice rolls and bad jokes. acoc is another one of my favourite seasons of all time, but the back half of it is super lacklustre in comparison to the first half, and i was completely zoned out of the rushed and anticlimactic final combat until calroy came in. these things did not taint my enjoyment of the show--it's always been forgivable and understandable to me because well, yeah, comes with the improv liveplay territory!! i love analysing the shows thematically and have my critique but ultimately understand there's things no one can predict or account for. i think fhjy's case in particular was just so egregious to me; the themes felt so much more obvious, the character hooks right there, the set-up so good, that i truly had never been so disappointed by a d20 finale helppppp

like i'm used to d20 seasons not having themes that are perfectly executed or followable; when i make my posts about wishing that fhjy was about the unfair school system, it's more like... wishing that anything could've happened that would've made it possible to come to my own conclusions on that theme. i'm ALWAYS reading too deep for my analysis of d20, and i'm super aware of it--this is part of the fun of it for me, thinking about implications and characters the creators didn't have time to, fleshing out ideas and subplots that didn't go anywhere, death of the author and all that. it's just that this season's main plot and themes, more than any other d20 season for me so far, felt so completely incoherent, despite its direction being so completely obvious to me, that i couldn't even pretend to come up with coherent analysis for it and i was left absolutely flabbergasted LOLLL

and maybe that's on me! it's definitely not a mistake i'm going to take into another d20 season, i've actually made my peace with the fact im probably never gonna get another fhsy or tuc or even acoc from d20 again (or at least the main IH cast) and that's okay..... i actually almost relapsed into taz the other day i was so desperate for a good ending AHJFSKFSFSFS

anyway this got long sorry i had a lot of thoughts. thank u for ur messages anon!

[originalwinnercheesecake]

The Bane Was Never Going To Be Okay

I have been a fan of the underland chronicles for 16 years. I spend time on its tumblr page, but I don't usually post on it though because I consider TUC on of the more nuanced series I have read and i could day that has not already been said. I made 1 post a couple years ago though where I answered a frequent posters theory about Gorger and twirltoung being siblings with my own theory that the rats Razor and Goldshard were Ripred's siblings (this would make the Bane both Razor and Ripred's nephew). That theory was reblogged a couple times back then and I even saw it referenced recently.

I might be late for TUC month, but I finally thought of some more posts that I want to make another post of. Let's talk about Pearlpelt/The Bane and his relationships with his parents/gaurdians.

He had 7 that I can name.

The first two are his bio parents Goldshard and Snare. We know Snare was at the start the Bane's downward spiral. He was the first to introduce violence, fear, and gluttony to The Bane when he killed the other pups in the litter because the rats were starving and Snare wanted to make sure his future weapon, sorry (not sorry) his son, got all of Goldshards milk. (Unessisarly as Ripred points out that even in those hard times any numbe of families would have taken the extra pups). It is also stated that Snare used to beat The Bane when he was just a pup.

For Goldshard, before the Bane and her other pups, she was in love with Snare. Even among other rats king Gorger and close followers of his, like Snare as an example, were known to be ruthless and bloody monsters. People in Goldshard's life (her big brother Ripred) warned her that Snare was no good and to stay away from Snare. Unfortunately she did not listen. She married him and moved far away from everyone with Snare, to a remote hard to reach, and not often visited corner of the rats land. The other rats in the pack there were probably snares troops, no one to help Goldshard. And once her pups were born she was stuck. Where as Snare saw the Bane as a weapon Goldshard wanted something else for her baby, but wasn't able to get it. When his white coat grew in she tried to forgo his prophetic name and tried to call him pearlpelt, but Snare and all the other rats still called him the Bane, and in her final moments even Goldshard uses the name. She wanted to protect the Bane from Gregor, waking the serpents to sink the ships and eat the questions was her idea.. But when she saw both Gregor and Snare outside the den she looked at Snare: her husband, the Bane's father and abusor, her other pups murder, and she attacks the bigger threat first, losing her life in the process . Her last word "Don't" was the start of a plea for her baby's life. This leads Gregor to conclude she was a loving mother. 6 months later he meets an adolescent Bane, who is already an unstable mess. On page 29 of Marks of Secret when Gregor and Ripred are discussing the Bane and his issues Gregor remembers Goldshard and says this "Maybe if Goldshard had lived" "Maybe he would have been okay". On the next page Ripred replies "But she didn't so we will never know". Well when I was a kid and first reading the books I tried to make up an AU where Goldshard survived her battle to the death with Snare, Gregor and Ares are then somehow able to get both Goldshard and the Bane to Ripred, and the pair live together in happiness, and the Bane never grows into the monster he became... But that is all a fantasy, for more reasons than the obvious this book is fiction, and Goldshard actually died. No actually going over what happened to the Bane's gaurdians and why, well even in a world where Goldshard was able to escape with her baby she would have still likely died, this time at the Bane's paws. The Bane did grow up with love after Goldshard, but it did nothing to stop what he became.

Ripred was guardian number 6. He did not love the Bane. Actually by the time Ripred was forced to assume Gardianship he flat out hated the Bane. (Once again my theory is Ripreds hatred came from a mix of the Bane reminding him of Snare, compounded with Ripred unfairly/rightly blaming the Bane for the deaths of Goldshard/Razor.) But it was also mentioned that Ripred and the Bane had only been together a week. Taking the Bane to Regalia may have been a last ditch effort to get him away from Twirltoung, and the Bane's melt down where he insisted Ripred's "hated him" and kept him "prisoner" "all his life'.. I do believe Ripred when he said he wasn't unkind to the Bane as a pup... This is mostly because I genuinely believe that Ripred did not have much to do with the Bane when it was a pup. I believe that he left Razor (the Bane's other possible Uncle) to raise him, and only checked in from time to time to see how Razor and the Bane were doing and to try and shoot down any ideas the Bane had about becoming a King or carrying on Snare/Gorger's conquest. Ripred mentions he used to have give up food to the Bane during the starvation, but that could be explaned by Razors struggles to provide for the Bane and Ripred wanting to help Razor (whether you believe me about Ripred and Razor being brothers or not, it's clear from Razor's first mention that they had some kind of personal relationship).

But let's talk about Razor for a moment. He does not get enough love or recognition from the fandom, and that's a shame because from what I can tell, despite joining King Gorgers guard at one point (he was likely forced. Even Gregor could tell was ashamed to be there) he seemed like a really good guy. He took the Bane in six months into the starvation, and raised and loved him as his own. Both Ripred and the Bane have nothing but good things to say about Razor as a parent: How kind he was, how much he had loved the Bane, that he tried to teach him survival, and went hunry for him. Razor did his best to give the Bane all the love that Goldshard had, to be everything that Snare should have been as a father.... The Bane repaid all of this by killing Razor. He threw him off a cliff over a crawler carcass. This happened between CotWB and MoS, which means that the rats had control over that river and were eating well again. So the crawler carcass was not the only food they had seen in days or anything. They could have shared it and then gone fishing if the Bane was still hungry. But no, as soon Razor tried to take part of the carcass for himself the Bane attacked his loving father, pushing/hitting him so hard he fell off a cliff and died. Then he had the desparete/dirangged idea to try and conceal his crime by eating Razor. Shudders. To the Bane's credit he did feel bad about it afterwards. When Ripred tells Gregor he cries and tries to say it was an accident, he did not know how hard he had hit Razor. He can also give a (bad and unjustafiable explanation), which is more than he could do for the next two.

Gaurdians 4 and 5 where named Clawsin and Ratriff. They were both attacked by the Bane a week before Gregor met him in Regalia. This leads me to believe they were raising him together and are a mated pair. While we can assume they were both part of Ripred's pack, they do not show up on page with names, and we know nothing about their personalities. But still they took him in knowing what he did to Razor. Knowing how dangerous he was. Knowing that Ripred probably really did not want the Bane in the pack after what happened, they still took the Bane in and tried to finish raising him. Now Ripred reports the two as having been maimed (not killed) by the Bane. When getting into specifics Ripred says that the Bane blinded Clawsin in one eye and ripped off one of Ratriff's forelegs. First shudders again. Secondly while Clawsin might have been able to survive, as long as the Bane's clawmarks weren't to deep and did not become infected; unless Ratriff immediately got some serious web gauss and medical care, they died from what the Bane did to them. Also unlike with Razor the Bane cannot even say why he did it. He cannot remember if they had done anything to him or what the fight was about. He just did it in a fit (reminder he is not a rager) and then they were lying maimed, and he could not stay with them anymore.

I am going to skip over having his army attack Ripred and throw him in the pit, because as established that their relationship was long broken and the pair where at that point enemies in a war. Let's talk about Twirltoung now. She was never the Bane's official guardian, but she had a huge influence on shapping what he became. While we know she was puppeting him and never truly loved him, the Bane thought she did and seemed to regard her as a surrogate mother. When she dies the Bane links her to Goldshard one last time by accusing Gregor of killing her "just like you killed my mother". Snare killed Goldshard though, something the Bane remembered and had had explained to him growing up. And he actually killed Twirltoung moments before, violently and deliberately, ripping off her head because an enemy he hated told him with one sentence that Twirltoung was using him so she could take over, which this notably persuasive rat vitimly denied. Failing for maybe the first time in her life to trick someone. Then the Bane immediately forgot what had happened and made up a fake story.

Twirltoung is the only gaurdian we see the Bane kill on page. But her death mirrors every other one in the Bane's life. It was violent and terrifying, and terrible like all the others. The Bane quickly forgot it just like with Clawsin, Ratriff, Goldshard, and possibly Snare. Last he killed her because he greedily wanted a crown and in a moments decision saw her as a threat to him getting it. Mirroring Razor being killed because he tried to take some of a meal the Bane greedily wanted all to himself. As well as the Bane's littermates being killed because Snare thought Goldshard would struggle to feed her pups, and greedily decided it all should go to the pup with a snow white pelt.

Hunger, greed, violence, loss. All of these hardships and horrors were truly part of the Bane's life from birth to death. Mercy, love, and kindness were there too. First from Goldshard, then Gregor and Ares, then Razor, Clawsin and Ratriff,... Ripred for sometime in-between. But none of it had the effect on him that its givers tried to make. He was lost to the horrors in his life until eventually, he willingly became them. All the good laid to waste.

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

Holy fucking shit.

Currently reading The Underland Chronicles with my baby brother for the first time and had to pause midway through.

Where do they get milk/dairy/cheese from? Do they have cattle? Do they use mice?

(@yesthefandomfreakblr? 👀

[quohotos]

When Ripred says [paraphrasing] "mutual need is stronger than friendship, stronger than even love"... You know he's talking about himself, right? It's self deprecation. Solovet broke the peace, maimed his face, and killed his family. He gave up on revenge. Both him and Solovet have mutual need for the fighting to stop.

In so many words he's saying "Yeah. I sold out. Everyone's a faker, just like me."

[quohotos]

So about Bio-Luminescence in the Underland...

This comment from @niumien got me thinking...

I couldn't find the screenshot that was just close up on the lamps, but it does exist I swear!

These are screen grabs from the Mata Nui Online game. All of the other Matoran use glowing rocks to light their homes, but the Ga-Matorian use these bio-luminescent jelly fish which I think is just so cool.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had something similar in the underland. They're obviously not great portable light given how heavy water is and how you need to feed them periodically, but I can imagine Luxa having an ornate container of them on her desk in her apartment. I bet Hazard got a lot of exotic colored ones as gifts for his birthday.

However... when we get to glow worms I don't think it's as cute and pretty.

Wow, isn't that amazing? Aren't those glow worms beautiful? Well... they are at our scale but the Underland makes everything BIGGER and more intelligent.

Real life glow worms trap bugs in their long sticky strands to eat them. They're harmless to humans because we're just way way way to big to be eaten, they eat moths mainly... but how big are the moths in the underland? You seeing where I'm going with this?

Underland Glow worms would be fucking terrifying!

Imagine being an ovelrander, thinking you'd escaped because you see stars in the sky, but then something sticky grabs onto you and doesn't let go.

If I was sandwitch my first port of call after arriving in the Underland would be exterminating every single glow worm I could find because holy shit I would have nightmares just knowing they were out there.

[quohotos]

You know, when I first read code of claw I thought it was a little unrealistic that Gregor would be able to break the sword over his knee... but on closer inspection I think it actually makes sense. There are like three other instances of swords breaking in early books in the series. Gregor breaks his sword in the Labyrinth, Luxa breaks her sword in the jungle, and I'm sure there are other instances of swords shattering that I can't think of at this moment. Whatever metal they have is brittle and breaks easilly, and even Sandwich's sword itself isn't immune to that.

We also don't see a lot of things made out of metal that often in the underland. There's a lot of cut stone, a lot of leather, a lot of bone, but rarely are we ever told that something is made of metal. The metal they have access to probably sucks and just isn't that great to work with. It's the best thing to make swords out of, but it still breaks if you're not careful.

I'm not saying it's this specific kind of steel, but it's totally possible to make metal that's brittle and breaks easily. There's lots of historical prescient.

[quohotos]

I've had a lot of thoughts about this subject for a while, and after today's @returntoregalia episode I feel like now is as good a time as any to write them out. One of the strangest parts of the Underland Chronicle's worldbuilding is the fact that the underland creatures can talk to and give orders to the corresponding overland creatures. The crawlers spy on boots through regular cockroaches, the gnawers can command newyork rats to accomplish complex objectives and follow orders. They intimidate Gregor's mom into letting him come to the plague meeting, and it's implied that Ripred uses them to communicate with Gregor's dad in the code of claw. We never see any fliers communicate with overland bats, but there's no reason to assume that they couldn't. It's not just a passing detail that can be ignored, this is a plot relevant factor that appears and reappears and has to be contended with So what does this mean?

Option A: Oh god we're all monsters! In the Underland Chronicles the creatures in the Underland aren't special because they're intelligent, they're only special in that they can talk. All creatures are capable of understanding English, forming and executing complex plans, and following orders. There's no reason to think this excludes the cattle in regalia, nor the fish in the water, nor any other animal ever. The Underland creatures don't bring this up because they all basically eat each other and cannibalism is common so the Regalians are not uniquely grotesque in the fact that they do agriculture.

Option B: A wizard did it! The Underland creatures are just magical. There's no unambiguous magic in the story, but this is the exception. Whatever magic makes them intelligent and able to speak rubs off of on the overland creatures they communicate with, temporarily granting them some of the faculties that their Underland creatures have. This implies that a fifteen foot cow could come along and make all the underland cattle rise up with a well executed speech.

Option C: (my personal favorite) transitional species The Underland is described as being miles beneath new york city. That's a lot of volume to cover, and a lot of space where other creatures can live. The Underland creatures gained intelligence before they gained gigantism. Maybe it was freak evolution, maybe there's something in the water or some shiz that makes it happen, but either way the creatures we know and love in the books have a lot of it but other creatures just have a little of it. The giant creatures only live deeper down, but in more shallow areas there are still tons of transitional species living that have the same intelligence but are still tiny and shortlived. These ones live both on the physical bondary between the overland and underland, but also sit on the boundary between "Rat" and "Gnawer", able to understand/speak the gnawer's spoken language and communicate with overland rats. It's like a chain, the big animals communicate to the transitional animals, the transitional animals communicate with the overland animals, and the overland animals make Grace require decades of therapy. Gregor can't tell the transitional creatures apart from regular creatures, and no one finds the time to sit him down and explain this because why would this eleven year old child have to understand the nuances of this?

Ep 25 - Curse of the Warmbloods Ch. 4-6

Oona and Lily discuss chapters four through six of The Curse of the Warmbloods, in which the rats send an escort and Gregor, Boots, and Grace head down to the Underland. Other topics of discussion include Overland rats’ linguistic comprehension, the efficacy of paper bags during panic attacks, and the social skills of bats.

[quohotos]

My fan theories about how the Underland works

In today's @returntoregalia episode had some interesting tangents about how the creatures probably couldn't survive in the Underland. There wouldn't be enough air, the air wouldn't circulate, and larger creatures die sooner than smaller creatures because their hearts have to work harder. The correct answer is obviously "It's fantasy", but I still think there are some clues that can give a plausible psuedoscientific explanation of how this can work.

Where does the air come from? The overland, specifically the currents. That massive amount of air being pulled in and out of the Underland is what is recirculating the air and keeping it breathable. This is sort of passing the buck, since the currents are never explained and are one of the few purely magical parts of the worldbuilding, but I believe that is the purpose they serve. There is something in the Underland, could be magical or some strange natrual phenomenon that's not explained yet, that flushes out the dead air pulls in fresh air. Sometimes Overlanders like Gregor get caught up in it and it allows for safe passage between the two lands. Sandwitch specifically sought out the Underland because he saw visions of the surface being uninhabited (headcannon: nuclear war), so it's possible that the underland wouldn't actually save them in the event of that happening because it relies on air from the surface, but you can't really blame him for not understanding that.

Why are the animals so big? Yes, larger animals die sooner, but they also are much more efficient because of the Square-Cube Law. "This principle states that, as a shape grows in size, its volume grows faster than its surface area." Energy lost as heat is a function of surface area, which means that larger animals have to eat less often than smaller animals. Mice can starve to death within days whereas a human can stay alive for weeks without food. In places where food is scarce and temperatures are low, like the open ocean and deep sea, we see lots of animals evolve gigantism. If you go deep in the ocean you'll find lots of animals that look like the ones at the surface just scaled up (and yes there's more than one factor that contributes to that, but the caloric efficiency of gigantism is one of those). In a cave environment where calories are scarce it would make sense for everything to get bigger to conserve energy. As for them dying sooner, who's to say that they don't all die pretty early. The oldest creature we see is a cockroach on the code team, but basically everything else besides humans aren't given an age. Maybe Gnawers only live to be like thirty, maybe Ripred is an old geezer who's about to keel over. Most people die in wars anyways, so longevity isn't really a concern. The fact that Rats can grow up from pups to adults in about a year leads me to believe that they die off early and their whole society has made peace with and is designed around that fact.

When it comes to why the animals are all intelegent... that where there's no explanation beyond fantasy book, and that's fine. You could make an argument that with the added stresses and challenges of finding food in the underland intelegence would be important, but also complex brains are a huge caloric sink so it's more efficient to be dumb and specialized. The truth is that no one should ever have to justify having big talking bat friends in their story. Every story should have those without needing to explain their reasoning.

[quohotos]

I'm assuming there's as much diversity among the fliers in the underland as there is in humans in the overland. There are probably microbat families, and megabat families, and Roman pantheon communities, and Greek pantheon communities, and they all have very complicated relations and are just completely lost on humans.

My unsupported headcannon is that the Roman pantheon named bats are on a lower social caste from the Greek pantheon named ones which the queen and royal family belongs to. They live near the fount so Aurora came from a much less prestigious family. They talk about Aurora being a longshot and the only thing that pulled Luxa out of her depression, but also Aurora basically has no interaction with the flier queen, they don't seem to have anything to do with eachother.

Idk, it's not super impactful but it could be built on

How many fliers are named Zeus is the real question. Or is it a less popular name because zeus was a sex offender?

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

YES YES YES!! Also GLOWING MUSHROOMS AND FUNGUS exist!! I want that. Reflective crystals and rock, HNGNGNBGNGNG enchanting💕 things that glow are often extremely toxic. But there are bioluminescent microorganisms that live in the water at one beach. It’s incredible. I also want that somewhere. The underland won’t glow, but there are some bits that add an unearthly soft light to scenes.

Also gloworms are now a thing down there.

@quohotos Is now my right hand in the board of directors.

So about Bio-Luminescence in the Underland...

This comment from @niumien got me thinking...

I couldn't find the screenshot that was just close up on the lamps, but it does exist I swear!

These are screen grabs from the Mata Nui Online game. All of the other Matoran use glowing rocks to light their homes, but the Ga-Matorian use these bio-luminescent jelly fish which I think is just so cool.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had something similar in the underland. They're obviously not great portable light given how heavy water is and how you need to feed them periodically, but I can imagine Luxa having an ornate container of them on her desk in her apartment. I bet Hazard got a lot of exotic colored ones as gifts for his birthday.

However... when we get to glow worms I don't think it's as cute and pretty.

Wow, isn't that amazing? Aren't those glow worms beautiful? Well... they are at our scale but the Underland makes everything BIGGER and more intelligent.

Real life glow worms trap bugs in their long sticky strands to eat them. They're harmless to humans because we're just way way way to big to be eaten, they eat moths mainly... but how big are the moths in the underland? You seeing where I'm going with this?

Underland Glow worms would be fucking terrifying!

Imagine being an ovelrander, thinking you'd escaped because you see stars in the sky, but then something sticky grabs onto you and doesn't let go.

If I was sandwitch my first port of call after arriving in the Underland would be exterminating every single glow worm I could find because holy shit I would have nightmares just knowing they were out there.

[paksenarrion-dorthansdotter]

never thought i’d see quohotos say anything positive about jellyfish, even incidentally, and yet here it is. not surprised it was bionicle-related

So about Bio-Luminescence in the Underland...

This comment from @niumien got me thinking...

I couldn't find the screenshot that was just close up on the lamps, but it does exist I swear!

These are screen grabs from the Mata Nui Online game. All of the other Matoran use glowing rocks to light their homes, but the Ga-Matorian use these bio-luminescent jelly fish which I think is just so cool.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had something similar in the underland. They're obviously not great portable light given how heavy water is and how you need to feed them periodically, but I can imagine Luxa having an ornate container of them on her desk in her apartment. I bet Hazard got a lot of exotic colored ones as gifts for his birthday.

However... when we get to glow worms I don't think it's as cute and pretty.

Wow, isn't that amazing? Aren't those glow worms beautiful? Well... they are at our scale but the Underland makes everything BIGGER and more intelligent.

Real life glow worms trap bugs in their long sticky strands to eat them. They're harmless to humans because we're just way way way to big to be eaten, they eat moths mainly... but how big are the moths in the underland? You seeing where I'm going with this?

Underland Glow worms would be fucking terrifying!

Imagine being an ovelrander, thinking you'd escaped because you see stars in the sky, but then something sticky grabs onto you and doesn't let go.

If I was sandwitch my first port of call after arriving in the Underland would be exterminating every single glow worm I could find because holy shit I would have nightmares just knowing they were out there.

[paksenarrion-dorthansdotter]

so one thing I can think of is Luxa’s crown, which is gold. just saying that if their steelwork isn’t up to par, and they only know how to work with softer metals, a lot of it might be just brittle iron

You know, when I first read code of claw I thought it was a little unrealistic that Gregor would be able to break the sword over his knee... but on closer inspection I think it actually makes sense. There are like three other instances of swords breaking in early books in the series. Gregor breaks his sword in the Labyrinth, Luxa breaks her sword in the jungle, and I'm sure there are other instances of swords shattering that I can't think of at this moment. Whatever metal they have is brittle and breaks easilly, and even Sandwich's sword itself isn't immune to that.

We also don't see a lot of things made out of metal that often in the underland. There's a lot of cut stone, a lot of leather, a lot of bone, but rarely are we ever told that something is made of metal. The metal they have access to probably sucks and just isn't that great to work with. It's the best thing to make swords out of, but it still breaks if you're not careful.

I'm not saying it's this specific kind of steel, but it's totally possible to make metal that's brittle and breaks easily. There's lots of historical prescient.

[quohotos]

I wonder how the underland creatures feel about the humans' use of livestock. All basically the underland creatures are carnivores, the food chain starts with fish that eat whatever eats whatever comes out of the thermal vents. Gnawers canonically eat Crawlers when they can, and they eat humans after breaching the walls of regalia, and not to mention they eat eachother. So it's possible that they'd be chill with humans having livestock. It doesn't seem like anyone in the underland has a principaled stance against eating intelegent creatures... But then that raises another interesting point.

The Gnawers can talk to small overland rats, same with the Crawlers to cockroaches. Being able to speak and follow complex instructions is a really strong indicator of intelegence/sentience. They eat lots of small insects in the underland, but if small cockroaches can spy on people and report information why wouldn't a gnat? Why wouldn't a mite? For that matter, why wouldn't a cow? Are the cows farmed in the underland intelegent like other overland and underland animals have been demonstrated to do so... And if not... Why?

*It's one of the few issues I have with this story, and one of the things I would have done differently if I was writing it. It wouldn't be a easy slice out though, because a lot of important setpieces and plot details rely on the rats/cockroaches being able to take orders from their underland counterparts.*

So yeah, it's a little weird and half baked... But I can also see a world where it's part of the gnawers propoganda against the regalians:

"oh yes, they eat the cattle, but they eat *any creatures* that ever form an alliance with them. That's what killers do. Why do you think you never see any elderly fliers? Yes when they're young and fit they use them as transport, but when they're too old to work they're just *perfect* on the plate. They only allied themselves with the nibblers because their meat is fine and tender, when the time is right they'll start farming them too. They don't hunt, they don't give the other side a fighting chance, they *farm you*. Trap you, steal children from parents and indoctrinate them into thinking their only purpose is to be *food*. The cattle couldn't even escape if they wanted to, there's nothing in here they could eat, they have been so changed over generations to be *dependent* on the killers. That is the ultimate fate of the Flyers, the Nibblers, the Crawlers, and it will be our's too if that fool Ripred ever gets his way."

Currently reading The Underland Chronicles with my baby brother for the first time and had to pause midway through.

Where do they get milk/dairy/cheese from? Do they have cattle? Do they use mice?

(@yesthefandomfreakblr? 👀

[yesthefandomfreakblr]

You are canon until Suzanne fucking Collins herself says otherwise. And only if she has anything better to say.

How many fliers are named Zeus is the real question. Or is it a less popular name because zeus was a sex offender?