#tri gennai

[koushirouizumi]

DigiAdvs + 02 + tri. + Kizuna A.M.V. ~ Title: "DEAD And SEEK" {1st Half} {original} ~ Pre-view / Un-finished / {Work-in-Progress} + Duo/Ship/O.T.P: Koushiro{u} x Taichi {KouTai} + Friendships/Supportive dynamics: Koushiro & Chosen (briefly) {Implied} Adventure+02 Chosen Children (in general)

DigiAdvs Series © T0ei Animati0n

Disclaimer: I do not own DigiAdvs. This is FAN-MADE.

Summary:

Investigating your theory on that ILLUSIVE world With all its misfortune, its charm

Was it the world of "daydreams"? Just like the inner workings of "a fairytale"{?} It had the touch of unreality...

Preview:

The illusion of RED, white, and BLUE, conjured up by

that midsummer day...

Commentary:

The original did not have a P.V. for this one; This A.M.V. was made based purely on feeling from the original as the song was rarely covered in the originating series' canon, though it clearly still had some relevance there too (namely, to the earlier part of that series' canon, but also extending throughout the rest).

It's a bit of "dark" song but has a really cool (rock) sound; (However, take caution if you watch!) Despite this, there's a layer of 'deeper' meaning connecting to originating characters from the series this one is from, as well.

The original P.O.V. is through a character relevant to the main villain of the originating series that inspired this take; however; this character might not be fully aware of own actions.

("Gennai" appears a bit in this one...)

{There are spoilers for mainly the initial 1st Tri trailers + Saikai opening in this; including a dialogue made at the start of "Saikai"; however, this was made a year+ or so back. Kizuna does not show A LOT 'yet'., however there is a semi-major spoiler as the precursor to the final battle involving "what happened to the {missing} Chosen Children".} (If I include more of it or not depends on if my editor lets me finish making this A.M.V. without it crashing.)

{"Dead and Seek" was released May 30th, however, we had a preview for it as early as May 12, 2k13. 10 years anniversary of this song too, so I'm linking my A.M.V. in progress.}

(it aims to eventually tackle a Bit of relevant DigiAdvs ""lore"") however, is the speaker truly "Gennai"? {Maybe it's half YGGDRASIL}?? (Watch to get an idea!)

{Lyrics} (This section):

This fantasy story’s gotten away from me Ever since that accident we were plunged into Alone, now, I realized that

However, {THEY'VE} disappeared The warmth {their} words carried, repeating in my mind Put simply, I’ve grown to hate it...

For that ONE moment, my senses heightened My head was filled with countless CALCULATIONS Almost enough to make me faint

This is a reimagining of the human body These eyes of mine I’ve turned cold, their color – don’t they… Remind you of a {"MONSTER"}, somehow?

My cerebral fluids won’t find peace My cells, they try to understand The illusion of RED, white, and BLUE, conjured up by that midsummer day I’ll dissect it, and take your bloodstained hand in mine{???}...

[triangulumlights]

Chosen Children Tri Heights (sort of...)

I say sort of because I did my best.

ANYWAY, as we all probably know, there were super helpful official height charts for the chosen children in 02.

This gives us nice specific heights for the older kids and several of the younger kids, although you do need to estimate for some of them (like Hikari, who looks shorter than the 150 cm line, so I personally guess 147 cm for her.) So from this, you can make a nice little height comparison chart online using your comparison chart of choice. I picked heightcomparison.com since I liked that you could choose models.

Fun! This looks about right, so it feels like a good baseline to use for then trying to figure out how to find heights in Tri.

The easiest way, or at least I thought, to do this would be to find something to use as a baseline; someone who stood next to at least one or two of the 02 kids who also stood next to the Tri kids. My first thought, of course, was Gennai, since Gennai (or one of his clones) was near several of the chosen during the world tour arc in 02, and Dark Gennai (or whatever we wanna call this guy) interacts with several of them in Tri. Sounds reasonable, right? Right.

These seemed like pretty reasonable screenshots to work with, since we have three chosen that are both in 02 and Tri. So I slapped a guess into the height comparison chart.

...Immediate issues, unfortunately. Mainly in that although Hikari and Koushirou look okay next to this height guess, Jyou seems too tall. However, when I made Gennai taller, then Kou and Hikari were too short (they're already slightly smaller than they should be here), and since the height difference was only slightly off with Jyou and Gennai I figured this was pretty good.

So onto trying to compare Dark Gennai to someone in Tri, where again, I suffered. Of course Dark Gennai is near several of the chosen, but of course he's a huge creep, so he's not just standing there like a normal person. Of course not.

However, a few things were immediately noticeable. One: he's not that much taller than Jyou, as you can see their proportions are similar. Two: he's not that much taller than Meiko, somehow, but he's also at an angle so looks shorter. Three: he stands next to the railing of the boat the kids hide out on in... Uh... Loss? I think that's the right movie. Anyway.

I thought that, of these, the railing height might be a good place to start. If there was a decent shot of one of the chosen near the same railing, it'd be easy to compare; the railing is about mid-hip on Dark Gennai, so all I'd have to do is figure out how high it is on one of the kids, and trial and error until I got a height. Then I could compare the other chosen to that kid and should be easy.

I should have known better. Alas.

We do, at least, get both Koushirou and Jyou near the railing, but the only clear good shot of one of them standing straight up next to it is at an odd angle.

From this, it looks like the railing around Koushirou's waist/bottom of his ribs, maybe slightly higher. His elbows are bent 90 degrees to use the laptop, though the laptop itself would add a small amount of extra height.

These shots he isn't standing up straight, but they all seem consistent with the railing being at his waist.

There's also a few shots of Jyou that are useful-ish.

Jyou where did the rest of your arm go it doesn't look like it's hanging over the rail it looks gone

The rail looks about belt/top of hip level on Jyou, which makes sense for how much taller he seems to be than Koushirou (Jyou sitting flat on the ground still has his head higher than the rail, while Koushirou kneeling barely comes up to it.) Since we have good-ish estimates for both Kou and Jyou next to the rail, I went ahead and plugged in Dark Gennai's height, then compared 02 Kou and 02 Jyou to him to start off with.

...Huh. This looks... Correct. Mid-hip on Dark Gennai (about 95 cm or so?) is right at waist/lower ribs on Koushirou, and at the top of Jyou's hips. But they can't just be their 02 heights, because Koushirou is now taller than Sora, Takeru, and Mimi in Tri, whereas they were taller than him in 02. So even if those three had stayed the same height, Koushirou must be at least slightly taller than he was in 02. And if you look at where Koushirou and Dark Gennai's elbows would be, it does seem like Koushirou needs to be slightly taller, so maybe we just have a case of anime proportion problems.

But before I mess with Koushirou's height, gotta figure out how much taller than Sora and Takeru he is. Fortunately he stands near both of them in various shots so it's easy to compare, just gotta find some nice shots where the animation is good so it's fair to assume they're on-model, so starting with Kou and Takeru--

That's... Not helpful... Even the still animations from the credits scenes don't match. Tri. Tri why do you do this. I am one of you animation stans (when the animation's good, anyway; I love the style is what I mean) so why must you betray me so?

But okay. Official stills and such mostly put Koushirou slightly taller than Takeru, so that's what I'm going to go with. Now, comparing Kou and Sora, in addition to the group shots above--

It's much more consistent with them; Koushirou's just slightly taller. Takeru is typically shorter than Sora in official art, making the order Takeru < Sora < Koushirou, but probably only a few centimeters between each of them. Whatever. I'm going to do my best.

In 02, Takeru and Sora are the same height, so lets bump up Sora a few cm and Kou a few more cm than that.

This looks pretty good, actually. Assuming Takeru didn't get any taller is fine by me, since he was 11 in 02 and 14 in Tri; he could easily be one of those people that shoots up in intermittent growth spurts, especially since he's pretty tall in 02 comparatively. Additionally, the 02 height chart makes it unclear if it's measuring the top of his head or somewhere in his hat, so he could've actually gotten a little taller since 02 if he was actually shorter than 160 cm.

Anyway. The comparison here between Kou and Dark Gennai still seems alright, so we can work from here. Since I decided to default to the two official credits scenes with the whole group, I'm going to base adding the others from that. The only exception will be for Mimi, since she's consistently close to Sora's height in most of the show and artwork, and one of the credits scenes makes her way shorter due to her pose. Here's what I came up with.

A few particular notes. The height difference between Taichi and Koushirou is not that pronounced in Tri; it's there, but it's not the big difference from 01 and 02. The top of Kou's head is about forehead-height on Taichi. On the other hand, Yamato is distinctly taller than Taichi most of the time, though like with Takeru his height varies. He could be slightly shorter or taller than this. Like I mentioned before Mimi is usually slightly shorter than Sora, with Meiko being slightly taller than Sora, about Koushirou's height. Hikari seems to have had the biggest growth spurt, with the top of her head usually around Sora's forehead or Takeru's eye level. Ish. Again, varies. And then, of course, Jyou is tall; he's not hugely taller than Yamato, but it's noticeable. Mimi comes up to a little higher than his chin. I would add screencaps, but I still need to add Daigo and Maki to the chart and only have one more image left in the post limit.

They're relatively easy to add, since both stand near the kids several times. Daigo is tall but not as tall as I would've guessed; Taichi comes up to his cheekbones, Maki slightly lower. Maki is also taller than Meiko by a noticeable amount, but not a large one. So with them added:

Okay. This is my best guess for heights in Tri, and it leaves them all with a little more room to grow in Kizuna, which I might try to figure out later. Maybe. This was way harder than I thought.

Anyway feel free to disagree and discuss! I just thought this would be fun (and it was, despite the struggle) and maybe useful to people, though the real takeaway from this is that Tri is super inconsistent so really do whatever you want.

[sluggybasson107]

I don’t think the Digimon fandom talks enough about the time Jyou tackled Dark Gennai

[anime2357]

Listening to Bo Burnham’s Welcome to the Internet while thinking that it would make a great song for a digimon musical where dark gennai is singing this to the digidestined.

[blackswallowtailbutterfly]

So I just found out there was a continuation of the OG Digimon series so obviously I had to watch and finish that. I was obsessed with it as a kid.

But thanks for that fucking...Dark Gennai scene, guys. That's certainly one way to show a character has turned unambiguously evil. He'd better NOT get a redemption arc after that. That was gross. I mean, I always knew Digimon dealt with real things that kids experience, which is why I related so heavily as a kid, and why I need to finish the story. But *that* was a lot.

[sirfowlman]

Digimon World lore & a crackpot fan theory about digital humans & Digimon Adventure

Ordinarily, I wouldn't bring up any fan theories or any connections between the World & Adventure; other than they shared some locations, like File Island. Then I found out that, storywise, Digimon World 2 was indeed a sequel to Digimon World 1 (thank you, Wayneisboss) & that DW & Adventure were pulling some ideas from the franchise's early lore but obviously went in different directions.

This fan theory came rushing through my head as I was watched the aforementioned Wayneisboss' review of Digimon World 2. Sorta like this!

You know those abandoned human objects & buildings that were strewn about in the Digital Worlds of DW1 & Digimon Adventure? In Digimon World, these items were confirmed to be abandoned by humans from Earth that were trying to colonise File Island. For one reason or another, a schism broke out between humans & digimon, which resulted in the humans fleeing the island.

In DW2, all of the humans (including our playable character) were revealed to be the descendants of said human survivors that fled File Island. The survivors had went on to settle the Folder Continent & had built Digital City.

Now on to Digimon Adventure. What if something similar happened to their Digital World? What if humans also tried to colonise Adventure's Digital World at some point, but failed? Though unlike their DW counterparts, the majority of them were wiped out, leaving only various man-made objects, autonomous vehicles, empty buildings, & perhaps a few survivors like Gennai, his clones(?)/kin(?) & NotKen McPedo the Mysterious Man, who were digitised at some point.

I think some other Digimon media have featured similar stuff, but I only singled out World & Adventure as they're the most familiar to me. There are also other digital humans similar to Gennai, but their origins are quite varied. From androids, to A.I.s, to digital clones.

Okay, I think that's enough theorizing for one day.

[digidorkmon]

Want my raw, fresh from the oven thoughts on tri.?

I AM SO DISAPPOINTED

That's it, all I have for now. I might need to digest it some more but OH GOD SO MUCH WASTED POTENTIAL AND SO MANY QUESTIONS LEFT UNANSWERED. I'm sorry, I can't say I liked it...

[scrubf1re]

Me attempting to clear up a fandom misconception about digimon adventure tri.

Probably a hot take (or more just an excuse to clear up what I feel is a misconception) but while I understand thinking it's weird for some (but not all like how the news reporter’s statement in part 1 about how “This same creature has appeared a few times in the past. Each time it’s caused serious damage.” in regards to how this isn’t the first time Greymon has appeared in Odaiba and another reporter literally calling Meicrackmon a digimon after destroying a power plant in part 5) people to forget about the digimon in tri I don't think digimon fans realise that the alternative scenario where they do remember doesn't make as much sense as they think it does. Mainly because in 02 it was explained that it was because the Gennai and his many copies messed with info all over the net regarding what happened the first time a digimon related world ending threat happened to the real world.

Remember how Iori/Cody remembered said events when talking with Gennai in this screenshot but Daisuke/Davis didn't recognise digimon at all and freaked out when he first saw one and went to the digital world at the start of 02? Info regarding digimon was messed with in an attempt to hide their existence from the public and as a result many people forgot while others didn’t.

Even if it's not stated in tri it's not unreasonable to believe the same exact thing happened again in tri (or more specifically some time before the events of tri given that we see Gennai (or at least a copy of him) in the same kind of pod as the 02 kids in part 6 meaning he was out of commission)

since it's a sequel and therefore should follow the same rules as adventure and 02 and even if it was stated that alternative scenario could still be criticised as being a rather redundant piece of info for the audience since it already happened in 02 if you ask me. Heck if it didn’t happen again in tri I bet fans would be asking why Gennai and his copies didn’t try to hide the digital world’s existence again especially since he brought up in 02 how hiding it was necessary to prevent governments from exploiting the digimon’s power especially when the international chosen children/digidestined still aren’t public knowledge in tri much like in 02. Basically what this thread is trying to say is that it wouldn't make as much sense for everyone to remember the events of Odaiba in tri as some digimon fans think it would (I blame the abridged series for spreading this misconception if you ask me) given what's already happened to the publics knowledge of digimon in 02. Weirdly enough it would've been even weirder if the same thing happened again in Last Evolution: Kizuna since at that point the human world had already faced three world ending threats whereas in 02 and tri it only faced one and two respectively (alongside the fact that Gennai was out of commission much like the 02 kids during tri like I said before) and the fact that the international chosen children/digidestined don’t seem to be hiding themselves in that movie like they used to (which given how everyone has a digimon partner in the 02 epilogue is likely why since it’s meant to build up to it). Funny how there's a logical in universe explanation for all three situations in the adventure continuity if you ask me. I know I've already made a similar thread in the past I just wanted to update said thread and fix up mistakes said thread made in the first place. TLDR: while I can understand where the criticism is coming from, I just feel the reason I cannot bring myself to agree with it is because the criticism itself makes less and less sense the longer I think about it given the points I've already brought up in this thread. Let me know if my reasons made sense or not.

[taichi-x-koushiro]

Since @hikariyagamiweek was currently going on and the final prompt (+for today!) is "Vacation / Day Off"... While I unfortunately couldn't create many new works in recent time, I would like to re-link my AMV that has strong Hikari focus, including where I focused on directly showing my Hikari's characterization! Mimi also co-starred here and there's quite a bit of varied ship moments included (while the main 'focus ship' was still KouTai / Taishiro, my main Digimon OTP) but I did intend to focus heavily on both Hikari and Mimi with this specific AMV as well. Any further notes and info can be viewed under 'read more'! {Minor spoilers included only up to the production of "Digimon Adventure:" [2020] reboot series, up to the end of Episode 03.}

Digimon Adventures ~ x Kagerou Project “My Funny Weekend” AMV [music © Jin, singer: Hatsune Miku {Vocaloid}] featuring CHARACTERS/DUO/SHIP[s]: MIMI TACHIKAWA, HIKARI YAGAMI (as supporting characters) + Taichi Yagami [Taichi “Tai” Kamiya in U.S. Dub] x Koushiro(u) Izumi [Koushiro “Izzy” Izumi] ~ {KOUTAI}/[Taishiro(u)] & with bonus scenes for: Jou Kido x Mimi Tachikawa [Joumi] as a main ship Miyako Inoue x Hikari Yagami [Miyakari] Sora Takenouchi x Mimi [So(Ra)Mi] as side main ship Mimi Tachikawa x Meiko Mochizuki [MiMei] {brief} Miyako Inoue -> Mimi Tachikawa [Mimiyako] as implied crush Taichi x Koushiro x Meiko [TaiKouMei] x Mi (Mimi) as equal polyships Taichi x Koushiro x Mimi [TaiKouMi] as an equal OT3 Daisuke Motomiya* x Hikari x Miyako as equal polyship {brief} (* Ken can be read in into the background if you like Dai/Ken[suke] ) [ or DaiKenMiyakari as an equal polyship ] Yamato x Sora [Sorato] / x Mimi [YamaSoMi] as an equal OT3 {brief} [or +Jou for YamaJouraMi] as equal polyships ~ you can feel free to read in whichever of the above pairs you want (or anything else that’s in my shiplist pretty much!) however, please keep in mind the main ship is Taishiro. It is not intended as brotp only but as ship.

PAST AMVS / VIDEO EDITS IN THIS SERIES: Kagerou Daze (Heat-Haze Daze) / Children Record [+Adv Chosen] / RED / Additional Memory and Imaginary Reload music edits for KageDaze / Days (short edit) / Lost Time Memory / Yesterday Evening / Summertime Record / Shounen Brave [+Jou] / Outer Science [+Villains] / Headphone Actor (short edit) / DAZE (short version / TV Size OP) / KOUSHIROS ? CYBER JOURNEY [+Maki] / Brave Heart x Kaien Panzermast [+Chosen Children] / Night Tales Deceive [Yobanashi Deceive] / [KOUSHIRO’S] Imaginary World / Mekakushi Code [Blindfold Code] [+Yamato&Sora&Adv Chosen] / Ultramarine Rain [+Mrs Yoshie Izumi; Izumis] / Imagination Forest [+Mimi&Jou] / Transparent Answer [TaiKou+Meiko] / Jinzou Enemy [Artificial Enemy] / DEAD and SEEK (short edit) / Headphone Actor (Full version Preview) / Otsukimi Recital [Moon Viewing Recital] [Advs Taishiro & 2020 Taishiro] (Note: Check the link for ‘ Otsukimi Recital ‘ for all links to any past AMVs as well as story info / the story introduction link!) (*It’s ok to start on/only watch this current AMV!) [*You may understand the story/implied timeline of things better if you begin from my “Kagerou Daze” AMV, though it’s also not required! “Children Record” is also recommended as a starting point/upbeat song! “DAZE” also serves as a mini Opening theme song and is also upbeat!] {NOTE : PLEASE read my FAQ and “about” sections BEFORE interacting directly with me, my contents / fanworks / this series, or my blog!!!}

[More info + lyrics under the ‘read more’!]

Keep reading

[tobiasdrake]

I'd say that Tri, Last Kizuna and 02 The Beggining are a tad of a weird approach to try and bank into nostalgia, but not letting go the concept of "no you have to say goodbye to the 'mons"... which doesn't work after 02's epilogue. And then Adventure 2020 happened, and forgot that it was supposed to be an assemble show.

I don't have a problem with nostalgia banking, but Last Evolution Kizuna wanted really badly to be Toy Story 3 and failed. That, I take a lot of issue with.

There's a lot of heated debate surrounding LEK. The idea that the kids' partnerships with their Digimon break because it's time to put away childish things and grow up is extremely contentious within the fandom, but it's also not universally agreed that the film is even saying that thanks to translation issues with the subs and also some very ambiguous imagery with the ending.

There are basically two different interpretations of what happens in LEK.

1 - Sora, Taichi, Yamato, Jou, Mimi, and Koushiro all lose their Digimon Partners because they enter adulthood - but not Takeru and Hikari because they still have a few years to go.

This is a natural occurrence and the result of growing up. They have no choice and no agency in the matter; The Universe takes their Partners away because they're too old to be playing with toys anymore, and they just need to fucking suck it up and deal.

2 - Sora, Taichi, and Yamato lose their Digimon Partners because they're too irresponsible with their adulthood. Mimi, Jou, and Koushiro do not because they're responsible adults and are balancing their adult lives and their love for their Partners well.

What happens to Sora, Taichi, and Yamato is a rare and unusual occurrence, but there is hope that they will one day find their Partners again once they've gotten their heads on straight and made their way as adults.

For obvious reasons, the film is very unpopular with fans who take the first interpretation and pretty well-liked with fans who take the second. Which one is actually the valid and intended reading? Well. It's complicated. The movie went through a tumultuous creative process, to the point that Adventure series director Kakado Hiroyuki walked out on production midway through over disagreements and inconsistencies to the original series.

Which is, y'know, always a promising sign for a new entry in a series.

Watching the film, for me, it honestly feels like both readings are intended. Which is to say, you can find evidence to support either/or. I don't think that's deliberate, I just think the film was sloppily made and shows signs of conflicting creative visions.

Proponents of the Good Movie interpretation can point to the villain of the film, whose central motivation is literally that having your Partner taken away because you grew up is some fucking bullshit. In its final act, the film reveals that her Partner did come back - Just in an unrecognizably different form, not as the Partner she knew.

So the natural conclusion then is that Agumon and Gabumon will reincarnate and may find their way back to Taichi and Yamato; They just won't be Agumon and Gabumon. Which still contradicts the 02 epilogue despite proponents of the Good Movie interpretation insisting that 02's epilogue is still canon to LEK.

Which itself has evidence to support it (Taichi and Yamato are on their way to becoming the people they are in the epilogue) and evidence to refute it (Agumon and Gabumon fucking died).

As the translation breakdown in the above link shows, there's also some phrasing issues that created confusion. Gennai in the official English version describes losing your Partnership as a typical occurrence while, in the original Japanese, he seems to describe this more like a rare thing that he doesn't fully understand.

It's explained that what's happening is the narrowing of potential. Children have infinite potential, which something something Digimon Partnerships. As you make choices with your life, you narrow your potential, and eventually it can no longer sustain a partnership - Unless you're able to become an adult with limitless potential anyway!

That seems like it's setting Taichi and Yamato up to figure out their shit and save their Partnerships at the last second. But they figure out their shit and still lose their Partners, which gets described in the end as a rite of passage.

The blog with the big translation breakdown I linked above makes a note of the difference between the official translation, "This is how we finally grew up," and a more accurate translation, "This is how we arrived at the entrance to adulthood." As they say, it shouldn't be translated with finality.

But that's splitting hairs, because either version is still saying that losing Agumon and Gabumon was Taichi and Yamato's rite of passage from childhood into adulthood. Whether they've become adults or taken their first steps into adulthood doesn't actually matter; it's still describing this loss as the gateway that brought them there, which is the point of contention.

They did what they were supposed to do, they were still punished for it, and then they close by describing it as if it were an inevitable consequence of growing up despite what Gennai said. Which may or may not be corroborated by what happened to Jou, Mimi, and Koushiro.

Proponents of the Good Movie interpretation will point to Jou, Mimi, and Koushiro as proof that not everyone loses their Partners. Proponents of the Bad Movie interpretation will point to those same characters as proof that everyone does. This is due to a fundamental disagreement in how you interpret the final scenes.

At no point does the film ever say, with words, that Jou, Mimi, and Koushiro lose their Partners. But it does conclude with these images:

The final shots of Taichi, Yamato, and Sora show them to be moving forward with their adult lives, with no Digimon. The younger kids Takeru and Hikari's slides contain Patamon and Tailmon. There are also slides for the 02 characters, which show their Digimon Partners still taking an active role in their lives too.

But Jou, Koushiro, and Mimi? No Partners in their slides.

Good Movie fans will say that the film never says explicitly that they lost their Partners, so this means nothing. Their partners are probably just offscreen somewhere.

Bad Movie fans will say that these slides are meant to show the older kids moving on with their lives post-Digimon and the younger kids still having their Digimon Partnerships. There's a clear contrast between Hikari and Takeru's slides versus Taichi, Yamato, and Sora's - and Jou, Koushiro, and Mimi are presented like Taichi, Yamato, and Sora here, not like Hikari and Takeru.

Good Movie fans have the counterpoint to be made that their Partners still exist in 02's epilogue. So, y'know, canon faithfulness says that everyone's Digimon will come back or was never lost. Checkmate, naysayers.

But also Last Evolution Kizuna basically ignores Tri and makes no attempt to address the questions it left hanging, and also the Adventure story director walked out of production over inconsistencies to the original so I don't think you can really use canon faithfulness as a talking point here.

Taichi and Yamato are still on their way to becoming an ambassador and an astronaut respectively, so the epilogue hasn't been thrown out entirely. But it clearly has been thrown out. Jou was supposed to become a doctor in the Digital World, Sora was supposed to become a fashion designer instead of inheriting her mom's ikebana mastery, and Mimi was supposed to become a chef instead of selling cosmetics.

Yeah, Taichi and Yamato are still on-track to a similar life path than what the epilogue gave them, but nobody else is. So I don't think the movie is actually as faithful to 02 as the Good Movie side thinks it is. And apparently neither does Kakado Hiroyuki.

For me, I do think they were trying to say it's time for the kids to put away childish things and grow up. I don't think they meant that to be insulting. But I do think it's kind of insulting.

I think they were trying to do what Toy Story 3 did; To tell a story about the rite of passage from childhood to adulthood and what that means for the things we loved and enjoyed as kids. But I don't think that story works when the putting away of childish things is something cosmically forced on the children rather than a choice they make with their own agency.

Toy Story 3 wouldn't have landed the way it did if the movie was about Andy's mom pinning him down by the arms while garbagemen come in and throw Buzz and Woody into a woodchipper. But that's kind of what Last Evolution Kizuna does to the Adventure kids.

Taichi and Yamato get to give a powerful emotional farewell to Agumon and Gabumon. But they don't want to, they are not making this choice for themselves, and no reason is ever provided for why they should have to. And even the best defenses of the film just make it out to be a weird, random cosmic blip that maybe they'll fix some day, who knows.

Even in the best-case scenario, the universe just decided to grievously hurt Yamato and Taichi for no reason even though they were already making strides to undo the thing they were allegedly being punished for. It's still mean-spirited and cruel even in the best possible interpretation.

So. Yeah. All things considered, I find myself falling on the side of "It's a bad movie and I don't accept it as part of my personal Digimon canon." I don't accept that the children need to all have their Digimon deleted once they enter into adulthood, and I equally don't accept that they don't need to have that happen but that Taichi and Yamato deserved to have their Digimon ripped away from them at the end. There is no version of this movie that I actually like.

[firedragon1321]

What Digimon Adventure Timeline Thing Freaked You Out The Most?

As a kid or an adult, doesn't matter. Feel free to talk about your choice in comments, reblogs, or tags!

Explanations for things that aren't here under the cut. Please read that before complaining or clicking "I'm bald".

Character deaths are excluded because then it would be an arm wrestling match between Angemon and Wizardmon. And those are meant to be sad, not disturbing. Though if a death other than those two is your Freaky Moment, just choose whatever best applies and tell me in comments, reblogs, or tags.

Tri onwards is excluded because the Evil Gennai Lick would sweep.

Seasons after Adventure are excluded because the D-Reaper would sweep.

Dark Ocean is not here because it would sweep. I'm sure you're picking up a pattern here.

The reboot is excluded due to personal lack of familiarity.

The Digimon controlling stuff and the Dark Spores are separated specifically because the latter controlling human children is a different type of unnerving.

[koushirouizumi]

mE, SITTING StrAIGHT UP: *GENNAI* GOT A TAMER CARD?!

[reignsan]

Digimon Adventure Tri has a lot of issues ranging from minor annoyances (the only words ever out of Agumon's mouth are about food) to really egregious plot holes (nobody caring or even noticing that the 02 kids are missing, nobody reacting to Ken apparently being the Emperor again or Imperialdramon being an enemy and dying, etc).

However it also has several ideas I'm quite fond of: featuring the DigiDestined before Tai's group, having the kids struggling to stay true to their Crest traits, showing what happens when a DigiDestined is desperate to get their partner back, Homeostasis becoming an enemy to the kids because it's so focused on balance above all else.

So despite it's flaws both minor and major, I can't bring myself to really hate Tri. I'm more sad about it than anything, sad about the lost potential for what we could have gotten if the execution of its ideas had been better.

Also I'm annoyed that all its loose plot threads concerning Dark Gennai's plans will probably never be picked up again. Dude ends the series saying "I'll try again with Daemon and Diaboromon next" and then he's never mentioned again.

[kazarinn]

I watched Last Evolution a while back and found it to be extremely grim and cynical with its talk of "potential" but i'd be willing to watch the movie again if the translation was at fault if there was a more accurate sub. I see a couple sub groups did translations for the movie, but I wasn't sure if there was one you recommended or worked on? Otherwise I'd be very interested in hearing what bothered you about the official translation, regardless of my own feelings about what I watched, but I was having a hard time finding a post on your blog that talked about it directly.

Hello! Yes, I would absolutely agree the official subs are a mess to the point I can't even recommend the movie with them. Personally, I think any of the fansubs should be fine; the one I personally had a hand in was the L Subs version (which I did not translate myself but was lightly involved with the subbing process for), but to my understanding, there is at least one other well-done one done by a fan who clearly knows and loves the series.

(I actually am tentatively interested in maybe trying it out myself in the future for the hell of it, but I'm not super pressed to do it ASAP because there are so many other things with higher priority. Other than subs of the movie itself, I also personally translated the Shueisha Mirai Bunko version of the novelization, which doesn't have a 1:1 transcription of the dialogue but is still more accurate than whatever was going on with the official translation, or at least I would like to believe.)

I haven't made a proper post breaking it down yet, but what I will say is that, as someone who has spent a long time translating for this series and has gone through the movie's dialogue multiple times (way too many times?) in Japanese, it is absolutely, 100%, for sure, not supposed to be a cynical movie. The official translation had butchered a number of things related to that, such as:

The fact that they didn't preserve the nuances related to 宿命 and 運命, an issue that my senior translator (who translated the L Subs version) and I consider to be important enough that my senior wrote about it on Twitter and I touched on it in my own discussion of Crest names. There are certain distinct contexts where the word that means "something truly unavoidable" and the word that means "something we are guided towards" come up.

The fact that Menoa's motives make no sense in the official subs; certain lines are translated to suggest the opposite of what they should, and certain lines will directly contradict each other, meaning the only thing that a viewer can get out of it is that "she wants to save everyone" and that she might even be right about her ideas (which probably doesn't help the viewing of the movie as cynical, since it sounds like Taichi and Yamato are rejecting her "good but extreme" intentions at worst and not her distorted view of the world as a whole).

The conversation between Gennai and Taichi in the middle of the movie has about two or three critical lines that are mistranslated, and those are probably some of the most important lines in terms of establishing the movie's themes, especially given the issue of "potential"/"possibility" that you mentioned.

In general (well, this has very little to do with your question, but I feel the need to vent about this anyway) the official translation is just plain klutzy about everything. There's no conscientiousness about character voice, one of the most important things in translating Digimon works. References to the original series' plot points or lore don't match up at all, and I don't get the impression the translator or editor was familiar with the original series. (Adventure tri. and The Beginning's subs had this problem too, but not to the same degree; in the case of Adventure tri., the lore was vaguely referenced or contradictory in Japanese to the extent a compliant English translation probably wouldn't have even been possible, and in the case of The Beginning, the issues were less common and less plot-relevant.) Even beyond just plot-important lines, there are far too many lines that are semantically mistranslated. All of it makes the movie an unpleasant experience to watch in terms of sheer vibe, and that's something I think is far more important than people tend to treat it as.

I will give a disclaimer that I feel obligated to give during these situations: if you did not like the movie, while I think it is highly likely that you'll enjoy it better with a properly done translation, I cannot guarantee that it'll turn your opinion over 180 degrees and make it your favorite movie ever. I am a translator before I am a literary critic, so while literary analysis is important for a translator, there is a point I have to hold back before it starts turning into my own fanfiction. But it's exactly because of this that the official translation is so poisonous, because a translator's job should be to maximize potential for readings and interpretations for others. If a work could potentially have a "nonsense interpretation" and a "sensible interpretation", and a translation outright invalidates the possibility of having the sensible interpretation because of how sloppy and nonsensical it is, it becomes a perfect example of what I've referred to as "insidiously bad translation", where it looks passable on the surface but is far more poisonous than it seems.

[alpaca-clouds]

The Canonicity of the first 7 Digimon Movies

Okay, let me ramble on another thing in terms of Digimon. For the first four seasons, we had a total of seven movies that were released. Two movies each for Adventure, 02, Tamers, and one movie only for Digimon Frontier.

The movies were generally released in a bundle with movies for other franchises Toei was releasing. Like Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, and Ojamajo Doremi. Because the movies were generally released in a package of two or three movies that came together to somewhere between 90 and 120 minutes, the movies themselves are not movie length by any western standards, and for the most part only are about 20-40 minutes each.

However, the weird thing with the movies for Digimon is the questionable canonicity. So, let's go through the movies one by one.

Movie 01: Digimon Adventure

This movie is easy to place in terms of canonicity. Digimon Adventure confirms the events of this movie to be canon as by episode 29 of the series. As the movie was made parallel to the first episodes of the series, and as such the folks writing the series actually were in full awareness of the movie and its contents.

Fun fact: Hikari was originally not planned to be a chosen child in Digimon Adventure. But given folks found her adorable in the movie (that released at the same time as the first episodes), there was a push made by Seki Hiromi and other producers for the writers to include her as a main character later in the series. (This is also why she joins so super late in the show and why during the first few episodes Gennai never even seems to wonder why there are only seven chosen children arriving at File Island.)

Movie 02: Bokura no Wargame

The second movie is also fairly easy to relate to the canon. Here, too, the series later confirms in Digimon Adventure 02 episode 27. Honestly, there is not a whole lot else to say about this one. Not a lot of fun facts or anything. We know it is canon.

Movie 03: Hurricane Touchdown & Supreme Evolution

This movie is probably the one most discussed in terms of canonicity. Because other than with the first two movies, the canon of the show does neither confirm, nor deny it. Originally folks thought it would not properly fit within the timeline of Adventure 02 (which takes place between early April 2002 and December 31st 2002), though this was mostly connected to folks assuming it would have to take place between episodes 13 and 14 of the show, as Shurimon and Submarimon do not show up. However, several folks later realized that it is more likely that the movie takes place between episodes 21 and 22, as the movie explicitly references it being Summer vacation. In terms of the show, the summer vacation starts by episode 18. We do not know quite by which episode school starts again. But there is a good chance that there is a good chance that episodes 18-21 only take up one or two weeks of the summer vacation, leaving four to five weeks of it for Hikari and Takeru to travel to the US.

The only thing that is really weird about this is, that we do not see Wallace at any point during the show (like during the Christmas episodes or the finale), as one should expect if the movie was canon.

And yes, of course, we see Wallace shortly in Kizuna - but the canonicity of those movies is again a thing that could be discussed. (But not today.)

Movie 04: Diaboromon Strikes Back

Frankly, given that this movie is pretty much the last thing happening in this timeline before the revival through tri. and then later Kizuna/The BEGINNING, this movie can be seen as either or. Generally speaking though, it does not really matter.

There is nothing in this movie that contradicts anything from Digimon Adventure or 02, but also nothing has ever firmly confirmed it.

Personally I always considered it canon, because there is just nothing world changing happening here.

Movie 05: The Battle of Adventurers

This movie is kinda fun in terms of its canonicity. Basically: It was written largely without any coordination between the writers of the show and the main screenwriter for the movie. However, because Konaka and the other writers actually liked it a lot, they decided to later reference it by having Kai show up in later episodes of the anime, hence confirming the movie was canonical.

Now, I could go through this movie and point out, how it does not quite fit with the canon. But generally I guess those are minor details that can be chucked up to the circumstance of the movie's creation.

As we know that the movie takes place between July 29th and August 2nd 2001, and have enough information about rough timeline of the show, we can say pretty firmly, that this movie takes place between episode 16 and 17 of the show. And yes, if you are attentive you will notice that this does not quite fit, as in the movie Taomon and Rapidmon already show up, that only get their debut in episodes 17 and 18 respectively. However, given that the movie confirms the dates as the very first days of the Tokyo summer vacation that year, and given that episode 17 definitely references being set during the school summer vacation... Yeah, the movie has to happen between episodes 16 and 17.

Movie 06: The Runaway Locomon

Runaway Locomon is the one movie I will firmly call out on not being canon. Simply because it does explictly contradict the timeline from the primal canon material. As Konaka has written the Drama CD "Message in a Package", I would consider that one much more canonical than this movie. And, well...

According to the series the Digimon get sent back ti the Digital World within hours after Takato and Guilmon get Dukemon Crimson Mode, which they have in the movie. And the movie gives absolutely no reason for why they are back a few weeks later. The movie gives even less reason for why the actual fuck Ryou is back in the Digital World at the beginning of the movie. And it all... makes little sense.

Mind you, for my fanseries (that is Digimon Alpha Generation) I made the decision back in the day, that some events similar to this movie happened in March 2004, so a full two years later. But I am under no illusions that this in somehow fits with anything the movie itself establishes or the show. It was mostly me just wanting to not give up on the Ruki-related drama from the movie.

Movie 07: The Island of Lost Digimon

I will openly admit this movie is the hardest to make sense off. For all the other seasons, we have a much easier time to relate the events of the series to the events of the movies in terms of time, because we have a real world timeframe to reference. We know when the events in Digimon Adventure, 02, and Tamers happen in terms of months and years.

Digimon Frontier meanwhile takes place over the course of 5 minutes in the real world, and we have nearly no reference how much time passes in the digital world while the kids have their adventure. Sure, it makes sense to assume it would happen after episode 12 (given that Takuya and Kouji have their Beast Spirits, but Bokomon does not yet have the Seraphimon egg), but... yeah. This does not make a terrible lot of sense.

So all in all... It is fairly probable that this movie is not canonical to the rest of Digimon Frontier.

[atsoraasayoma]

My newest head cannon is Homeostasis is actually Ygdrassil and is using the Ygdrassill persona to get what she wants.

She had the Digidestined as deterrents and pawns for the Digital world she but doesn’t need them anymore.

So what does she want? She wants balance. But what is balance? Endless conflict. The good defeats the evil and keeps repeating the process. Birth and destruction over and over again as long as she is the one in command,

When the reboot happened in Tri even all the viral Digimon came back. That’s when she was like ‘you remember what you did before defeating these challenges?’

Well I’m letting them loose. And I am erasing your save file. Also I’m hijacking Hikari and merging two mega felines to make my siren and use her negative emotions to destroy your world.

Also the Digital World wants to cause the Digidestined as much discomfort as possible.

I think Homeostasis truly hates humanity. She loves using them as discardable tools and letting all those she possesses deal with the psychological torment after.

Remember how messed up Maki Himekawa got? Remember how disillusioned and devastated Hikari got? And then by proxy Rui. That poor kid.

Also the sadistic dark Gennai is Homeostasis mocking the human race with carnal murderous desires. Licking Sora, Choking Meiko, and just trolling the others especially with Ken’s persona.

Also remember that dangerous metal dragon you only beat with the light boost from Hikari? Well now he’s hunting you down for sport.

The Digidestined are nothing but clowns! Because they are nothing without their partners. But don’t tell that to Jou who straight up pins Gennai to the ground while Gomamon flopped them fishes around.

Wasn’t aware the darkness could possess Hikari to. Or maybe that’s what Homeostasis Wants us to think and it’s still her the whole time.