#tradpub woes

[risingshards]

I saw this description for a book on Netgalley and am losing my mind

I've seen so many romance books lately that are like:

Liv runs her family orphanage after losing her family in a hot air balloon accident. Then she meets Blake, the infamous serial orphan baby puncher. She's appalled by his existence, but he's just so hot and their chemistry is really cool. Then she learns Blake was also responsible for her parents' hot air balloon accident. But he's SO hot. What can she do?

Like that enemies to lovers deal but the enemy bf is like. Deplorable just from the synopsis lmao.

(Oh my god we should do a cynical sunday writing basic tradpub enemies to lovers synopses with all their absurdities)

[aowna]

I can't do much about [REDACTED], but I *can* blast Take Control by Poets of the Fall on full volume and work on the things I do have control (heh) over. So, that's something.

[olderthannetfic]

Anon from 722398181104795649 again about YA as a G-D and it's failure(s). Your response is really interesting because it definitely aligns with the market research I've had to do over the last 3-ish months for work. Adult YA readers want YA to skew older superficially as escapism from the woes of adulthood (It's like someone who orders a pasta with broccoli in it because they appreciate the flavor it brings, but they have no interest in actually eating their vegetables). Teenagers feel alienated by the G-D that is meant for them no longer allows them to confront said woes with honesty or maturity for their age to prepare them for adulthood or discussing broader ideas. More teenagers skip over YA altogether or just reader adult genre fiction with some Middle Grade fiction mixed in because the teenagers feel in MG, there's still an honesty to the stories that they can understand, having once been young children. In short: teenagers think YA books are talking down to or patronizing them.

The result is YA authors pushing for NA, New Adult, as a G-D, which hasn't taken off within tradpub outside of romance circles. Mostly, because what they're pushing for is already an established genre for around a century: campus novels--books about characters 18+ who are entering college, establishing independence, beginning to explore sexuality and enter the workforce, etc. But, again, YA adult readers refuse to engage with adult genre fiction because there isn't the facade of protection from adult themes or topics, and there's an aggressive refusal among many agents in literary fiction (and some adult genre fiction) to encourage authors to sanitize their stories. YA authors began attempting to cross over into adult genre fiction with mixed, but overwhelmingly negative, results, as they cannot shake the stigma of writing YA. And the genre fiction crowds they want to appeal to have higher standards, typically, than the average YA writer is able to meet. YA authors then complain about the differences in publishing YA and genre adult fiction. It's like when MCU actors and directors get upset when prestige film directors don't consider MCU movies to be "cinema."

--

This is fascinating.

I pretty much missed the YA boom (slightly too old, not paying attention, etc.), so I've mostly encountered YA through its worst evangelists of the Hunger Games knockoff era, and often a good bit after their favorite books were at their height.

As I've said before, this really strikes me as that pattern where something is big when you're at a formative age, and it becomes the Normal Default to you.

I'm sure some of it is refusal to engage with adult nuance, but I'll bet a lot of it is resistance to leaving the name of YA behind. People spent so much time defending this niche that they started believing their own rhetoric about it being the only place the good queer stuff was or the feminist stuff was or whatever. They identified really strongly as A YA Fan. It's hard to let that go.

And if you don't remember much about pre-YA boom publishing, the fact that all that YA-tastic Mercedes Lackey stuff was filed under fantasy, not YA is completely obscure. The places you find stuff you'd like that aren't called "YA" are not obvious. The fact that YA in its boom era form isn't universal and eternal is not obvious.

I think people are waiting for their Cool Era of their early 20s to return and for the things they think should always be in fashion to come back... Like everyone else aging ungracefully, they may be waiting a while.

Gotta say, every New Adult book I've been shown sounds like a hideously boring contemporary romance that would probably make a good coffee shop AU against a backdrop of a canon that's dark or magical but that isn't really pulling its weight even if you like contemporaries.

[risingshards]

That tradpub post has me thinking about my tradpub cycle. I mainly indie publish web novels, but there is a desire to write something for tradpub. Sometimes it's just the feeling of a longterm dream to get a story picked up by a publisher, sometimes it's being in a book club and having an ego moment of like "what if something I wrote was something people here would read," sometimes it's me just wanting to take on that challenge. And as I've posted about plenty here before, it would definitely be a challenge.

-It would have to be something less precious than my other series, something I'd be willing to accept major changes to in the name of marketability, from titles, plot lines, characters, etc.

-Writing something marketable is tough for me. Or at least marketable in the sense of something a lit agent would see and want. I've been reading more currently published fantasy stuff and I think I could do it, but...

-Whenever I get too cynical about things like lit agent tastes and marketability, the story just withers. I think I know the components of a story that could be marketable and such, but could I write it without feeling really bad? I've tried to write marketable stuff in the last few years and it just stalled out completely. I'd have to write it differently than all my other stuff, and that seems like a fun challenge, writing with different creative muscles is something I've been trying to crack. I think if I figure out how to map it out and kind of pre write it, while still keeping that spark of fun, that could help greatly

That said, a lot of the time I get the tradpub itch it does make me very happy I chose indie for Rising Shards (and Reborn, but that's a contest entry so I'm not sure if that's the same vibe as indie entirely?) One of the reasons I love independently putting my stuff out there is to be in complete control of my stories, to put them out to my vision for better or worse. With Rising Shards I'm building an audience nad people like it too, and I don't know if anyone would like the tradpub version of Rising Shards.

I still have that itch to try a new story for tradpub (or an old one with WOHAS if I can get that draft together) but I also am glad I have my babies to fall back on when attempted tradpub work gets too stressful.

[risingshards]

We're changing software at work so I had a long stretch of nothing to do so I was on Goodreads just dinking around and looking at the new books we can't check in for a few more days, and I got daydreaming again about something with D6R that's really been an intriguing idea for me (for more on D6R check my post here).

D6R was an older draft of Rising Shards before it really became itself, so the characters and tone and everytthing are so different that I think it'd be cool to make my revised version of it in the same universe but with different characters. This story I've been dabbling about how to connect it to RS (originally it happened in the first season where the D6R crew shows up there), but I always had the inkling that the exile story of D6R happened before the events of RS.

Since D6R is tonally different (mainly a fantasy adventure journeying somewhere vs. the mishmash of genres RS is) and different in form (traditional manuscript vs. web novel), I think it would be so cool if someday I could get D6R published and have that side be there as one part of the universe and Rising Shards as another, like RS readers can get lore and backstory in a hopefully not boring prequel-y way since it's so different (I'm hesitant to put D6R up as a web novel cuz I fear it won't get the same traction as RS cuz it's very not web novel-y and it do not scratch similar itches but I might someday), and readers starting with D6R and can find out there's also a giant slice of life fantasy wlw web novel that happens after that's already running.

Even with the itch to try tradpub again, I have to brace myself already this early in the project (or maybe pretty far in since I've worked on this branch of the RSverse for a looong while already) for all my tradpub woes, mainly stuff that held me up before. Not just the heavy unlikeliness of success, but the roadblocks I have with disliking the whole process of lit agents and queries and ugh. But maybe if I really heavily revise this, really polish it up, get all those barfy things like comps and whatever in place, maybe someday I can have some print projects. This is just a fun daydream right now, but in the one in a million shot everything lines up, this would be super cool 🥰

(Also bonus for D6R right now: a heavy revision of an old project is definitely scratching different creative muscles than Rising Shards, which is a major goal for a side project the last year or so)

[risingshards]

I'm reflecting on my writing a bit, once more thinking about the creative cycles I get on because I'm maybe hitting a familiar roadblock again. Thinking and writing about my personal creative cycles could be useful, but I'm prefacing that I usually just do all these over again so this could also be egotistical navel gazing that doesn't accomplish much of anything.

Maybe important to note I don't feel I have as much of a cycle for the web novels, this is mainly for me attempting to do the equivalent of building an insanely hard Lego kit without instructions that is me writing a manuscript with the intent of shopping it around for a traditional publisher. So once again (this is like my fifth post about this I'm sorry LOL) my cycle for trying to write a tradpub manuscript post college:

I get hit with a sudden desire to do tradpub project (“something to bring to my workshop group,” “A way to flex different creative muscles,” “just want to write something for traditional publishers,” “the beat sheet,” “something to tinker and experiment with,” “trying to climb that big tradpub mountain,” etc.)

I get really excited about it!

I write 1 (one) chapter and bring to workshop, then ride the buzz of them liking it!

I maybe get some more work done on worldbuilding or some more scenes and it feels good and fun. Maybe an outline gets done.

I try to write more chapters. Keyword try. Suddenly it’s not fun. Suddenly writing it is like pulling teeth. Suddenly I'm just trying to write for a publisher and it gets too cynical and I think about all the trends and tropes and corporate stuff and I don't like that feeling.

I then have an epiphany about writing Rising Shards and my other web novels (well just one other at the moment with Reborn but I have other WIP web novels that are going fine) and how I should focus on my main projects first and foremost and how nice it is I have projects I really truly enjoy that express my soul with a medium/format I really love.

Interest continues to wane for new WIP while still I note something like “it’d be fun to have a side project, just something to tinker with, and I’d love to tackle that tradpub mountain someday…”

I write in my diary/post on here about it and then remember that I have this cycle and do this constantly (seriously I've done this like 5 times lol) .

Parts of WIP make it into another project, tradpub ideas abandoned.

Repeat at step 1 after a while.

Going through this so many times you think I'd just get the hint and not try this again. IDK if I'm just like incapable of writing that Mythical Tradpub Project™ but some days it feels like it. When my web novels flow so well and are such fun projects to work on and make me so happy, that I shouldn't worry so much about that tradpub mountain. Generally, that's the way I go. And it's worked out for me so far. I don't make much money on my writing yet, but I have readers. There is a big thing from the Tapas True Love contest coming that I am not entirely sure how much I can say about it yet, but it's something that's bigger than any of my tradpub manuscript attempts, which probably says something big about my weird wrestling game wlw isekai doing better than my "surely publishers will like this" manuscripts.

Maybe I won’t ever be able to take on that tradpub challenge, to build that mythical bajillion piece Lego set, but I am feeling good about the path I'm on writing wise. A writer friend was talking to one of our college profs, who's a published author that works on scripts and such so they're in the know was saying how full our genre is and how big print publishing just kinda sucks right now. That whole mood was a big part of me deciding to self publish Rising Shards as a web novel (including time of me working at a publisher that helped motivate me to get RS out the way I wanted it), and I haven't regretted that one bit.

Again, why do I keep trying when the fruitful path for me has been rejecting that and forging my own way without trying to appease some lit agent or whoever? Maybe it's a chip on my shoulder. Maybe it's just the like "I've been thinking about going about it this way since high school, I should at least try." A lot of my writer friends are trying and it makes me want to try too. It's that pie in the sky big lottery ticket win of writers (but probably a lot more attainable than a big lottery ticket win.)

What does that mean for my Wolves of Hope and Stardust project? IDK. I love that name. I like the premise, I thought it'd be the one to break through my "ugh feeling at chapter two" vibe. I’ve put a lot of thought into it so surely it’ll end up somewhere. I have notebooks specifically for it, one for worldbuilding and one to try and hand write it. Maybe this is just a blip and I'll pick up work on it again. For now, this summer is gonna be Rising Shards, Reborn in a Fighting Game with My Rival, and Collab Project as my big ones. I might tinker a bit with Wolves, but maybe this time I really need to go SLOOOOWLY and build it up to try and find a way around me hating it by the second chapter. Having an experimental project is fun, and I have a rough idea for a thing I wanna do at some point (I'll put that in a separate post) but I usually fall on this loop and end up going "Wait I love Rising Shards and Reborn and collab project the most." So next time you see me talking about some new tradpub project to finally climb that mountain, maybe link this one so I can give myself some reasonable expectations.

[risingshards]

My web novel writing process!

I was asked by a friend to share my writing process with them and I figure it'd be good to share here too if anyone is curious about how I handle web novels! For non web novels...I'm still working on a process for that 😅 My webnovels are here for Rising Shards and here for Rising Shards: Evy & Stella.

Before starting web novel:

Prototyping

Setup

During web novel publishing:

Note taking

Early scene writing

Outline

Roughs writing

Second draft

Before starting web novel:

Prototyping:

Basically me tinkering around with stuff to figure out what I want to write, what I'm able to write, what I have the most fun writing, because with a web novel a lot of content is needed to keep up with releases so I have to make sure what I write is something I can actually like *write* without it being a drain on me or something I get bored a few chapters into and give up. I try to build characters or at least start to around here to figure out how they "sound." I like to study the stories I like the most and ask myself what exactly I liked about them, what I'd change, and stuff I could be inspired from for my own stories. RS is kind of hard to say how long I was in prototype phase since it started as a tradpub thing but after working at a publisher and then the pandemic happened, I reallllyy took some soul searching on how to best release it and if I wanted to keep struggling against the woes of traditional publishing.

Set up:

This part is a bit out of order for the pre-web novel process because I want to have some stuff written before I start uploading; so with that in mind when I have a chunk of writing that I'm satisfied with that's at least a few months ahead to start up, then I think about an upload schedule, get a cover mockup or commission one, then tinker around with like the aesthetic I want for banners and such.

Note taking:

This one I do daily pretty much no matter what, basically just jotting every random idea down in a notebook, google doc, or a note app. My notes can be fairly incoherent from my handwriting to the ideas jotted down but I figure it out lol.

Early scene writing:

Sometimes part of note taking, this is usually me just trying random scenes which sometimes become something and sometimes don't, but are good practice for character voice. They're kind of like sketches but in writing form.

Outline:

I outline my stories a bit ahead, but also know vague points way ahead. I like to think of it as a hybrid of TV season, manga, and anime structure versus a print novel structure (though I suppose print novels could very well have this structure, tradpub is just more unforgiving to anything outside the beat sheet for debuts from what I've seen. I don't go too far ahead as the story can change in the writing (I too am gardener/plantser and plantser works well for web novel). Since I use a more TV season like format, I like to get a list of my episode titles in advance and move things around as I go, knowing where like the season premiere and season finales go. I find outlining that way is a lot easier for my brain than just the three act structure, and allows for me to play around more with how things happen. For example, an episode list of the first batch of Rising Shards:

Sometimes I'll have to adjust the episodes a lot if I move one way later to earlier for continuity, but doing them episodically let's me finish my thoughts a lot more easily and it allows for the best pace for my characters. My episodes are between 5 chapters and 12, but I think most are around 8-9.

Roughs writing:

This is where the bulk of my writing gets done. I set up a daily goal like "finish chapter 34.1" and map out my targets for a month, then get rolling and try to get around 1k words in a daily session, but not stopping if I get more chapters done, or getting too bent out of shape if I'm not feeling it that day. I'm a big "talk to your characters" writer, so I get kind of trancelike and just let them tell me where a story is headed when I'm in roughs writing. I mostly write chronologically but things that are tougher like big fantasy episodes, action sequences, and now...sex scenes *gasp* I try to write in advance so I can spend more time polishing them. 

Uploads:

Once the roughs are finished, I upload them to my site Tapas, schedule their dates, and then make the banners, thumbnails, etc. I usually wait on descriptions because when I upload chapters at this point my descriptions are very "Character goes somewhere." and that's it lol

Second draft:

This is where I fix up the drafts and polish them to a more readable state, I tinker with chapters up to their upload date and then after too (I'm not full George Lucas special edition I swear I just catch typos and weird phrasings like a year later). Then after that I start outlining the next chunk of episodes, get excited about people reading scenes I really liked and also panic about the ones that are scarier (aka big twists I fear won't land, sex scenes *gasp*, really weird stuff I don't know how people will react to, etc.)

The whole process loops around so I'll be doing roughs on some main episodes, outlines on others, polish on others all going at once. I try to have at least a month ahead on uploads so I don't fall behind as well. 

—Chiral