#to quote crowley: 'how can someone as clever as you be so stupid?'

[kaesaaurelia]

So I did end up adding this to the conversation, mostly because it was funny, partly for a hint of foreshadowing, and partly because I could work in a few more instances of stupid running jokes.

(Also, @tenok, because you did say you were interested.)

"So, as Felix I used to work for the old mayor. But he ran off to the South Seas to look for a climbing fish."

"A climbing fish?" Aziraphale asked. He was about to say he'd never heard of such a thing, but it was ringing a small, worrisome bell somewhere in his head, and then he had it -- he'd read it in a newspaper with some relief, because the mayor of some city in the States (had he misremembered it as Boston?) had lost his election and now he wouldn't... now... "Crowley, you're not working for that maniac, what was his name... Thomas, or, no, Thompson -- the one who wanted to burn all those books! Tell me you're not working for him."

"Well, like I said, he's off to the South Seas, and -- angel, do you mean to tell me you know all about the mayor's bizarre conspiracy theories about --"

"King George trying to undo the American Revolution or something through library books, yes," said Aziraphale. "We gave them those books after that awful fire, there were donations, it was ever so charitable, and --"

"Did you give them any books?" Crowley asked.

This caught Aziraphale up short. "Well, the people of London gave them books, and --"

"But did you?" Crowley asked, leaning forward. He was smirking.

Aziraphale didn't see what that had to do with anything. "Well, for Heaven's sake, Crowley, the whole city had burned down, I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting a few... years, perhaps, or decades even --"

"Centuries?" prompted Crowley.

"Just a little while," said Aziraphale, "before letting them have anything valuable. It's the responsible thing to do."

Crowley nodded, trying and failing to look very serious. "Of course, obviously. And you'd heard about Big Bill's jingoism but you don't know who Al Capone is?"

"Is Al Capone telling people to take library books out and burn them?" Aziraphale asked.

"Well, no, but --"

"Then I already like him a good deal more," said Aziraphale. "Anyway, how on Earth did you work for this Thompson fellow, didn't he notice --"

"I can do accents!" said Crowley.

"You can, I suppose," said Aziraphale. "Anybody can do accents."

"I can do accents well," Crowley said.

"Mm," said Aziraphale, not willing to concede that point. He turned his attention back to his poor, neglected omelet, which was miraculously still hot.

"Well, I did an accent, which was good enough to convince Big Bill --"

"Oh yes, he must be very clever if he thinks the same King George has been reigning for a hundred and fifty years," said Aziraphale.

"Anyway," said Crowley, "Big Bill -- who I really don't think believes all that, he's just doing it for votes -- left us all in the hands of this appallingly incompetent wet blanket Dever who likes things to be --" here he used his fingers to put quotes around his speech "-- 'above board,' or something, so I don't work for him. Hinky Dink and Bathhouse John are still in the game though, so I do odd jobs. Mostly encouraging people to vote."

"Hinky Dink," repeated Aziraphale, distastefully.

"Yeah, and you're called Aziraphale, what's your point?" Crowley asked.

"My name was given to me by the Almighty, and cannot, therefore, sound absolutely ridiculous," said Aziraphale.

"Oh, I don't know, I used to work with someone whose God-given name was Leonard," said Crowley. "Dunno why Satan made him keep it. Probably just out of cruelty."

Aziraphale waved off this alleged Leonard as irrelevant. "Anyway, is it so demonic to encourage voting?"

"It is when the voters have been dead for years," said Crowley.

Difficult choices in editing the 1926 fic. You see, I've been trying to pare the thing DOWN without taking out any of what I like, but also there's this scene early on where Crowley is explaining his 4 different Chicagosonas to Aziraphale, and one of them (the least-present in the fic) used to work for infamously corrupt mayor William Hale Thompson, but since the fic takes place in 1926, during a window of time between Thompson terms, he's not mayor.

Why am I fixating on this? Well, Thompson ran again in 1927 and uh his campaign heavily featured. Well. Claiming there was a vast and evil British conspiracy against America, and the best way to handle it was to burn library books. I feel like Aziraphale would have opinions.

Per other quotes of his, he was also apparently not aware there were multiple Kings George, and thought that the one reigning in 1927 was the same one reigning in 1776. Which raises several questions I do not plan to address in the fic, but maybe I should talk about the book-burning and the British conspiracy theory? At the very least it seems like a good way to a. get in a joke about Crowley doing accents badly and b. to have Aziraphale know everything about this one weird local political thing because it involves books, but still not have heard of Al Capone.

Anyway, it is technically one year off, but they're having this conversation in my version of a restaurant that would actually not have been built until the 1960s, so I guess that part I'm willing to handwave. But I'm annoyed with myself for trying to cut words and then, oh, what about this stupid thing I just read about? I need to put it in!

[magic-multicolored-miracle]

Nancy Drew: The Curse of the Dark Storm

So, I really liked this episode. It was atmospheric and exciting, moved the mystery along while still giving us new questions, and had some moments that showed off character cleverness.

I also really like that the show is making it so that her friends are just as clever as Nancy is and really able to share the mystery-solving equally depending on the situation/circumstances. In fact, so far we’ve seen more puzzle-solving from Ned, sorry Nick, than we have from Nancy. Get on your game Drew. 

As usual, context-less commentary there below:

What is with your accent right now Ace? You got all…southern

Ah good. George is being practical about it and does not believe she’s marked for death. 10/10 appreciate you’re logical

I mean because we saw him pull something out, we as the audience know the text is referring to Nancy’s mom’s car. But he’s a MECHANIC, that text could have meant ANY CAR

If he were a murderer, this confrontation would be an excellent way to get yourself killed girl

Ok, I liked her attitude at first, but it’s starting to get one-not and annoying

Do you not have an office building Carson? Or at least a room where your confidential client conversations can’t be eavesdropped on?

What natural causes could have killed her suddenly?! She was a young, healthy woman in her 20s/30s who randomly dropped dead in a diner parking lot. Really?!

Is there anything you people don’t have a ghost story attached to?

I swear, Yelp! must sponsor the show or something

Rat on your boyfriend or go to prison. Thanks for those great options, Karen… Also her felony charges are unrelated to the murder so they shouldn’t be dropped because you find someone more likely to be guilty of that (legally) unrelated crime.

Congrats Nancy, you made things worse!

Kate’s a social worker now instead of a journalist? Interesting. I wonder how much it’s going to matter ultimately

I mean that’s what you get for heating a completely empty coffee pot…and having dangerous decorations precariously hung…and…dammit please don’t let curses be real

Also, Rita is a new person several episodes in. Tragic, or suspicious. Only time will tell which.

Will solving the clock lead to Josiah Crowley’s real will?!

A salt circle stops demons not curses usually. And why did you need a how-to video for making one?!

I felt that way about Edith Wharton in my English class too. Although we were reading Ethan Frome.

Not going to lie, but the way Nick is talking about her and the one quote he read, calling books their “secret language,” it all adds up to a very romantic-feeling picture of their relationship and I hate it because it would be the second weird, creepy adult-child relationship in the show, or alternately I hate it because the CW’s subliminal messaging is getting to me

That thing does not look like a B&B at all. Certainly not one I would ever want to stay at…

Why are you so obsessed with money? 

Even if this was not a terrible clichéd idea, you are in a professional meeting and should not have wandered out of it, dumbass

Under the influence can also explain away ghosts…I can work with that

Snerk. Dad car.

Oh no, poor Bess…

She was going to make this into some sort of library or reading-centered community center, wasn’t she?

Again, confrontations that can lead to major problems, so maybe don’t have them in creepy buildings in the middle of a storm. Know your tropes.

I feel like we could appreciate this whole “Nick solves an important puzzle” thing more if we had the context and information to be thinking about it ourselves too, or if he and Nancy were starting from the same basic info and he’s working it out faster/better.

Glad you figured its in the kitchen, whatever “it” is, but hiding would be an excellent idea right about now, not getting caught sneaking about on a dead woman’s property, especially since you’re a major suspect in said death.

He already told you it’s being made a public landmark. That means you can’t strip it for parts to sell, idiot.

Carson, asking the smart questions, but much like your daughter, wrong place wrong time is how people DIE

Hell yeah! Cask of Amontillado!

So all this was for or because of Nick? That’s…concerning…

Shit, they’re gonna get caught…

Has Nick been wearing gloves? Or are his fingerprints all over everything now?

Well shit. Poor timing Karen.

I really like how each character has a color associated with them. Nancy is blue, George is green, Bess is yellow, Karen seems to be purple.

Aren’t your legs cold Nancy?

That speech was sweet. Melodramatic, but sweet.

I do not like Karen.

Who the hell are you Rita?! And why are you so creepy af? Oh good, so she was never really there. Awesome. Goddammit.

Nick, you don’t need to open these wounds just to build trust. Although I did kinda suspect it was something along the lines of protecting someone else, or that the person was abusing him somehow, or maybe just racist and trying to kill Nick, but the first is the plainest/surface “what  good guy” justification, almost cliché at this point, to be honest.

Thank you for that levity Ace. It’s part of why I’ve quickly come to love you.

Perfectly timed dramatic sunlight after the storm is perfectly timed and dramatic.

There’s no hole in the floor where she pulled that out…

$5mil in Bearer Bonds is exactly the kind of thing Ryan Hudson would have been looking for, and might have killed to get… Don’t do anything stupid Nick…

Oh, we’re intervening in the Bess situation, good. Or at least as much as she’ll let you.

Jut…forget what you know Carson. It’s for the best.

Creepy ghost, maybe, I don’t know, fuck off?

So I was technically right that Rita was tragic, just in a creepy/sus. Way

If you did, it seems like you’re just consolidating killers under one roof. Since we’re still being expected to believe that Carson is responsible for “Dead” Lucy

Trailer: Alright, so it looks like it might be a Bess-centric episode, which is cool since we don’t know much about her. But also, I’m just going to have to accept that ghosts are real in this version of things, aren’t I? I refuse and intend my denial to last at least the first 5 episodes. Fight me.

[oatmealaddiction]

I like this post, I just wanted to add in that I remember David Tennant talking about Crowley in an interview (I'm never going to find a link forgive me), and he said something about how what Crowley finds most frustrating about Aziraphale is also what he finds endearing; which is Aziraphale's kindness and his penchant to see the best in everyone. Beyond being a bit of a stinker who enjoys messing with people to an extent, I think Crowley's a character who actively struggles with being kind to others because 1.) The quote on quote good guys kicked him out of Heaven and he's still dealing with that, and 2.) Crowley's a character who above all hates being vulnerable, and when you're kind it tends to open you up to being taken advantage of. You can really see this fear at work when he tells Aziraphale; "How can someone as clever as you be so stupid?" So I think it's interesting idea that kindness isn't something that's actually in Crowley's nature and it might even make him somewhat uncomfortable, and so when he does do kind things, it's a deliberate choice he's making. People mentions Aziraphale's obvious retirement blues in S2, but I think Crowley's got them too. It seems kind of like Crowley's making an effort to be a better person when he's talking about feeding ducks frozen peas and when he tries to count to ten to avoid freaking out after his argument with Aziraphale. Like, he's trying to make kind choices and getting frustrated at how it does go against his grain, which also I think helps explain his super strong reaction when Aziraphale gives him the offer to go back to Heaven.

Hi! I'm kinda here to ask for clarification on something you said; hope you won't mind^. You say that Crowley's dark grey comment is one of the more honest and introspective things he says: that kinda comes across to me like you saying that Crowley's saying he's mostly bad with a capacity for good* and that's a fair assessment of him. I would have said it's more that he's mostly good with a capacity for bad**, baggages worth of issues and a bunch of flaws, primarily related to arrogance***, but that's technically beside the point: I also felt like that was the direction your character analysis of him was going. I'm now wondering whether I misunderstood the dark grey comment or misunderstood the analyses... what does your exactly mean, exactly?

*Concepts decapitalised because I'm talking about more human than Heavenly or Hellish standards of good and bad.

**Concepts decapitalised: see above.

***Blinkered was the word you used, I believe? It's a lovely expression.

^This isn't meant accusatory and I did my best not to sound like it, but I know you've had to field a few asks about yes, you do like Crowley very much, your criticism of him doesn't mean that's not the case, and I can only imagine how annoying that must be: feel free to can this if it comes across that way.

oh anon sweetheart 💕 don't worry about the tone or wording - your tone is perfectly polite and courteous, and i thank you for that!!! others have not been as conscientious 💀 though, be careful what you wish for in asking this, because it's gonna be lengthy 🫠

how you interpreted it is exactly as i meant it; i do think, when taking crowley's characterisation in the show (his book characterisation, for me, is rather different), crowley for me is a darker character with the capacity for light, rather than the other way around. and im going to specifically use darker and lighter, as opposed to bad and good respectively, because upon reflection, maybe that's more accurate.

yeah, to me, he is a dark character; if you've read any of my other asks/metas, please forgive me for repeating stuff, but imo the narrative tells us that he is more commonly swimming in darker tendencies than light. feel free to skip the next part and scroll to here*, because i will be recounting specific scenarios off the top of my head (going in chronological order):

not really explored fully in the pre-fall scene, because it runs throughout the show as a prominent theme; crowley is either unaware of why he fell (possibly true), or blatantly lies to himself and others about why he fell (equally plausible). his story about it changes, or at best is simply told in fragments... but his overall demeanour of when (e.g.) he's confronted with news of the apocalypse ("why me?"), when coupled with this, suggests a tendency towards blame avoidance, with a hearty dose of chip-on-your-shoulder complex

tempts aziraphale into eating in job; it doesn't really matter whether or not aziraphale ends up liking food and wine or not - he rejects the wine, and crowley immediately changes tack to offer food instead, citing that he can't get drunk on it, and of course he's not tempting him (absolutely is) so it's fine. aziraphale may have been curious about it, and this may be what crowley picks up on, but compare this scene to where aziraphale offers muriel a cupperty, and doesn't push when they refuse drinking it... hmm. (perceived feeder kink or not, crowley's face at the end of this scene screams satisfaction at his corruption)

this one is a little iffy, granted, but adding it anyway - blatantly dismisses aziraphale's concerns about the arrangement (heaven would be rather angry, but nowhere near how hell would retaliate - "they'll destroy you!), and pushes anyway. it's again another case of pushing for what he wants (and yes, true, what aziraphale secretly wants - which crowley detects and capitalises on), dismissing aziraphale's worries that, as we can surmise later on, were not unfounded

lets the french guard be taken off to his death. this is debatable, depending on whether you consider the guard to be a good or bad person in the context of the reign of terror, and deserving of execution as a result, but they could have easily escaped the cell unscathed without unfreezing the guard - ultimately, who are they (yep, including aziraphale here too, he's equally as culpable) to decide if he should die?

in the same vein, sends two watchmen falling to their deaths down a deep pit, and his only remark is, "might have slightly overdone it on the hole..."

(this one is tricky, but it rubbed me up the wrong way on first watch and thereafter so im including it) when morag dies, crowley's handling of the situation only really serves - imo - to rub it in aziraphale's face, when he already feels guilty enough for the both of them. i realise that he had to labour the point to aziraphale, and was just being honest - fair, he has a point! - but it came across as simply unkind and uncharitable... again, towards someone we are assuming he cares deeply about...

this one is in fact going to lean on some interpretation, but i think it's one that is so widely implied in canon that i think it might as well be; something happened to crowley between 1827 and 1862, and within that time, i don't think he was on best terms with aziraphale, given aziraphale's coldness when he arrives in st james' park. so, we could - could - surmise that he just suddenly asks for holy water from aziraphale, something that would be dangerous for them both and seems to exploit their friendship. he doesn't adequately explain why he needs it ("just insurance" is not sufficient at all imo), and taking offence to aziraphale's use of 'fraternising ' then contextually feels a little hypocritical

lies to aziraphale about having experience with a gun, banking on using a miracle if need be - which ultimately puts aziraphale's 'life' on the line, rather than being honest. he may well just want to make aziraphale happy, sure, but aziraphale goes into the bullet catch without all the facts - his face when crowley admits he's never shit (edit: meant to say shot, obviously, but leaving it in for @fabledshadow💕) gun before says it all, really

when aziraphale saves his life with the photo trick, he doesn't thank him, or acknowledge any kind of gratitude at all, that it saved him from a rather bleak fate at the hands of hell. he may well be insulting aziraphale's skills to dissuade him from a repeat occurrence of the bullet catch (fair!), but he is also insulting the very thing that got him out of danger... and the very thing that aziraphale obviously takes a lot of joy, pleasure, and pride in (and, yk, what crowley was actively encouraging just a few hours previous). it was justified, to a certain extent, but it was... unkind

(the Big One - so let's get it over with) tries to tempt aziraphale into killing a child - antichrist or not - and continues to persuade him into it despite aziraphale evidently being uncomfortable with the prospect. it also indicates how little he knows aziraphale in this respect; regardless of whether it would be the antichrist or not, this is the angel who tried to preserve humanity by offering a sword to pregnant eve, and was ultimately crucial in protecting job's children. even in mesopotamia, you can see how subtley appalled he is with killing children - despite him trying to rationalise it by saying it's the great plan etc. killing a child, id wager, would destroy aziraphale. i digress, but if crowley loves aziraphale as much as he (and the fandom) likes to think by s1, it's rather dark that he would try manipulating aziraphale into doing this in the first place, and return to the suggestion again not once (bandstand) but twice (airfield)

sets up an elaborate trick just to make a point to aziraphale on the use of guns, and then lets innocent humans get arrested on what i would say would be very serious charges in s1 (i mean, let alone firearms offences, arguably it could be charged as attempt murder 💀)

hits anathema and acts in such a way that he probably understands that he equally hit her and she hit him, yet is more preoccupied with fixing the bentley, something he could miracle repaired later on... as opposed to helping her back to her feet and ensuring she was alright. he also is prepared, after all this, to reject offering her a lift, excusing that there's nowhere to put her bike

backhands "clever" with "stupid", because aziraphale is doing something (trying to reach god directly as a last resort) he doesn't think is worthwhile. aziraphale finds out that that is true, but once again, im gonna ring the 'unkind' bell

doesn't tell aziraphale about what went down with gabriel, or how closely hell is keeping an eye on him, or the threat of the BOL, or that he's living in his car, or what happened in heaven/the issue of the second coming. there are loads of other little things too, but he lies by omission, whilst maintaining that he doesn't lie to aziraphale, and routinely keeps information from aziraphale - not only information that would be beneficial to share in the general sense, but information that directly impacts aziraphale, and comprises both of their safeties. has a tendency towards a hero complex that ends up either going wrong/unfulfilled ("i won't leave you on your own" then immediately buggers off to heaven) or attempts to remove aziraphale's agency and dismisses him outright ("i have a suggestion-" "ive got this.")

abandons aziraphale is set in doing something that is not only in his very nature to do, but when he does it because he doesn't have all the facts (hides jim). despite his assertion that aziraphale shouldnt do it because jim poses a threat, he then leaves aziraphale to face it alone. it's unknown how soon crowley would have come back to the bookshop if it weren't for the BOL threat - we literally do not know this - and he reluctantly does the apology dance (arguably when he wholeheartedly believes he was in the right) in order to be allowed near aziraphale again. it's also implied that aziraphale always does the dance, whereas crowley doesn't - which suggests to me once again the whole thing about crowley avoiding blame

pushes jim into remembering stuff despite it obviously causing him pain and discomfort - on one hand, sure, he's not certain that gabriel isn't lurking about in there, but he does it again in ep5 when, as far as he's assessed with the whole jump-out-the-window thing (a whole other thing that need addressing), jim is in fact... just jim

plays around with maggie and nina (the both of them do, and they're both at huge fault for this, it's insane) like they're toys, without any regard for their personal thoughts or feelings, as if they have the right to do this

encourages jim to jump out a window!!! okay fine, yes, he fears that gabriel is lurking in there and is doing it as a test, but even he looks somewhat alarmed when jim is clambering over the windowsill - and objectively it's an atrocious thing to do. and ultimately it doesnt exactly prove anything more than what he already knows; if gabriel was chilling in there, and was so committed to the bit to drink hot chocolate, call crowley his friend with a straight face, speak to crowley as such as friend, and generally act the way he does... if gabriel is that good an actor? well, i can't imagine jumping a window would be beneath gabriel to do, to maintain his cover. so to me, crowley realised that what he's asked has crossed a line

and, im sorry, but - kisses aziraphale. now is probably the worst climate imaginable (ie. the "do that again" era) to be discussing my take on the kiss, but my read has largely always been that it was a temptation, and a cruel one at that. it was desperate, and heartbreaking, and i understand why crowley did it - but it was imo a largely cruel and selfish manipulation for aziraphale to betray himself, and stay with him. i love the kiss for what it is and represents, but as a result i just... yeah, im not a "do that again" girlie, because i think aziraphale absolutely recognised the kiss for what it 'was'.

anon, if you have made it this far... im so sorry. it's been helpful to summarise all of it though, so thank you for giving me an opportunity to do so!!✨

*now. the thing is, the vast majority of these incidents, these actions and behaviours (and probably loads besides that ive missed) are not evil. they are not even necessarily bad, not in the classic sense. a lot of them have well-founded explanations, sometimes outright justifications, and it's totally understandable why crowley makes them (even just narratively ie. even without speculating or inferring in any kind of trauma he may have suffered behind the scenes if the story as it currently stands).

id argue, personally, that each one of these is dark in their own way - dark, in the sense that they are morally ambiguous at best, immoral at worst. they might not be bad on their own merit, but arguably it is possible to see them as wrong.

we can absolutely look at crowley and think he is good - and i agree!... to a certain extent. even if you oust a good few of the above examples, there are a few that, imo, if ignored or excused, kind of strays into blatant mollycoddling of the character. crowley absolutely has the capacity for good and right - his objection to the flood, saving job's children, stopping the apocalypse, helping aziraphale many a time, are all prime examples (even if you could argue against each of these which... well, this ask is long enough so another time, maybe) - and i think will ultimately be guided by what he considers to be the right thing to do.

but when i say that his assessment of being "very dark grey", the above is why i think this is him being either extremely honest, or accidentally incredibly insightful about himself. it's not necessarily a dislikeable thing to be - crowley being more dark than light - but given the evidence as i see it, he's aware that he's not a wholly good person, more one that leans towards the objectively immoral than otherwise, giving more weight to when he does do good. and the thing is, he regularly asserts this - being 'bad' - to aziraphale.

in doing so - constantly saying he's not nice, rejecting thanks etc - maybe, actually, it's not as humble or self-effacing as aziraphale, or the fandom, likes to think it is. why shouldn't we consider that crowley might, actually, be a bit of an anti-hero? it doesn't make him any less of an empathetic, likeable, or compelling character - it just simply acknowledges that he may not be as irreproachable or scrupulous character as we might like to think he is!✨

[theniceandaccurategoodomensblog]

I thought of that too. But in fairness the full quote from the TV series is something like “you’re clever. How can someone as clever as you be so stupid?” So he’s actually saying that Aziraphale is clever but his faith in God is stupid. In the 1992 script it is more Crowley saying Aziraphale himself is out and out stupid as a serious comment. So it is quite different.

Why was 1992 movie script Crowley so mean? He calls Aziraphale stupid. BBC miniseries Crowley would never.

He was the Crowley that the studio wanted, in the story they wanted.