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imfromthemiddlekingdom · 1 year ago

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See this is something I don’t get. I have severe mental health issues, especially regarding depression and psychosis. Mother elves are canonically stated to name their children after foresight. And Miriel is canonically stated as to give so much of herself to Feanor that she withered away. (+she was also said to be similar in temperament to Feanor so we can extrapolate that she didn’t do it due to “fear” or anything but hubris, or maybe we can say she wanted her son to succeed so bad that she poured enough fea for 4+ children into him).

This is just headcanon but I imagine that once you pour out so much of yourself, at once none the less, to your child and you have the mothers gift of foresight and you’ve seen how his fate ends (“Spirit of Fire” = self combustion) maybe you would feel like you’ve failed your child in some way because you’re in the “blessed lands”!!! Nothing ever is going to go wrong(!!!), but here is your baby boy, the greatest creation of your life, and you foresee that he will die a gruesome death. How are you supposed to feel then? To know that you’ve bought a child, an innocent, into this world that is marred but in a land that is said to be eternal and blissed and perfect, to know that he will die gruesomely?

How can a mother, who is so proud of her greatest creation that she poured all her being into him, supposed to reconcile that this child that is her world, is going to die?

If I were in her shoes, psychosis notwithstanding, my depression would’ve drove me to despair. We don’t really know when Miriel was born. Maybe she was born in ME, before the Great Journey, and have witnessed the evils in ME and have experienced the cruelty that is a dark Vala and his ilk, and therefor had many things to mourn. And then she was lead to this blessed lands where nobody(!!!) was supposed to die, and she looked into her baby’s eyes and saw death in his future, how must she have felt? I would’ve blamed myself. I would blame myself if I bought a child onto this earth on which we live on rn, because I know how cruel it is. But imagine living in paradise and knowing your son is going to die, how must a mother feel in this circumstance?

Another headcanon that is popular is that she suffered from postpartum depression, this could be why she was so discontent in her living body and only wanted to rest. But as anyone who suffered from postpartum or depression can tell you, these spells past. How many times have I attempted suicide? How many times have I wished I was dead only to think, not 24 hours later how glad I am that I am alive? Elves are immortal, they have forever to heal.

Miriel was weary after Feanors birth, the exact reason we may never know, but to condemn a person who went through great body trauma (because no matter what people want to say giving birth naturally in a time period where epidurals aren’t a thing is a body trauma) to eternal death because of a decision she made when she was newly dead? (Remember elf’s are immortal, they do not perceive time as we do).

To go up to a dead woman who may or may not have unresolved trauma from her life in ME and who saw her dearest son die in her vision and demand her to give a time frame for her recovery or she’ll say disembodied forever seems cruel and unnecessary.

Indis and Finwe willingly married knowing that she will be condemned to stay dead forever just because one was in love with a married man and the other wanted to fuck and have children. They aren’t the Valar (whom I do not believe understand the concept on changing their minds as they are made as they are) and understand what it is like to change your mind (as we can see that after Finwe died Miriel reembodied).

I blame both adults in this situation for the way Feanor turned out. Indis knowingly condemned her sons child to a life without his mother just so she can have her happiness and Finwe knowly condemns what is said to be a “great love” to the halls of Mandos till the breaking of the world just because he can’t wait to have more children. Feanor may have been wrong in many of his subsequent behaviors but him mistrusting and disliking Indis isn’t one of it. He had all the reason to do so since in one version Finwe only petitioned the Valar for remarriage AFTER he heard Indis sing.

Was he wrong to hold a sword up to Fingolfins throat? Absolutely. But at that point he had literal Satan whispering in his ears, and Fingolfin was on the verge of petitioning his father to disavow Feanor (thereby making all of Melkors discord true).

idk if it’s just because I’ve experienced one of my parents moving on almost as soon as my other parents body was cold that I feel so strongly about the Finwe Indis Miriel situation, but I can’t imagine myself behaving anymore honorably if I were put in Feanors shoes.

Sometimes I forget there are people who genuinely think Indis was a horrible conniving bitch for marrying a guy she was in love with after his wife died (and had expressly said she had no desire to return to life and did not think that would ever change) and it’s always a little jarring when I’m made to remember

#indis #finwe #miriel #tolkien #the silmarillion #feanor

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youareunbearable · 3 years ago

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Headcannon that Celebrimbor and Thranduil were childhood Frenemies because I don't like how the Mirkwood Elves were left out of everything that happened so pls enjoy this fliclet

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Once the Feanorians touched down in Hithlum, Thingol sent his younger brother's brother in law Oropher to be his ambassador. Oropher, of course, brings his son Thranduil along because this is a great chance for diplomatic training

Maedhros, this is during the time Morgoth is sending his own persistent ambassadors, thinks it would also be a great time to start Celebrimbor on diplomatic training, because before this he was just in the forge with Curufin and Feanor. And it doesn't look like the rest of the Sons of Feanor are going to have kids so he'll be inheriting the crown one day.

So Celebrimbor and Thranduil are pushed together on children "play dates"

They hate it, they always fight with each other and have competitions and as soon as they see each other they will throw down and scream new insults they learned since the last time they met. Sometimes they spent entire visits only speaking to each other in their own native tounges and mock the other for not properly understanding what they are saying. This particular game didn't last long, but Tyelpe did become the first of the Noldor to speak Sindarin fluently with no accent and Thranduil enjoys the annoyed tick in Galadriel's typical serene expression when she hears him speak flawless Quenya with a Feanorian lisp

Oropher is concerned, being the youngest of 4 he never had an antagonistic relationship with any of them. But Maglor (the new depressed Noldor High King) just gives a small smile and shrugs. He grew up with 6 brothers and even more half cousins. Little Tyelpe and Thrandy are just playing like boys and future best friends do

And they keep up this frenenimes relationship even after Curufin moves them to Himland. When it gets sacked during Dagor Bragollach and Curufin, Celegorm, and Celebrimbor all flee south to their cousins home, Thranduil sends them some relief supplies. When Celebrimbor disown his father, Thranduil comes to visit and generally be annoying until Celebrimbor can stop feeling like shit

When Thranduil, his parents, and their people leave eastward after Thingol's death but before the second Kinslaying (for Oropher is older then the Sun and Moon, he is not about to be led by a boy not even in his 30th year, Maiar blood or not, and many Sindar agree with him) Celebrimbor travels with them and secures them safe passage through the Blue Mountains.

They both grieve when they hear of the Second Kinslaying, then the Third, and then when the East sinks under the waves. Not many in Lindon support Celebrimbor wearing the eight pointed star again, but Thranduil just rolls his eyes and tells him red looks dreadful with his complexion

During the Second Age when Thranduil gets married, Celebrimbor is invited to the wedding and vis versa when Celebrimbor marries Narvi

(Both marriages involve lots of teasing over their partners of choice. Thranduil laughs over the fact that of course a Noldor would marry a Dwarf, they are basically the same, what with their love of rocks and metal work. Celebrimbor rolls his eyes and snorts that he's surprised Thranduil didn't end up marrying an Ent, what with his love of trees, but he supposes that marrying a lady named "tree maid" is close enough. What next? Will he name his children "sapling" or "twig" or "leaf"? Thranduil shoves him off his chair, spilling wine all over the table and floor and growls that at least his children will have original names, and not share a name with two of his forefathers like Men)

They visit each other a lot during the second age, and Thranduil tries to help him as best he can during the fallout of Narvi's death, and when Celebrimbor is designing his rings of Power with that suspicious Maiar of his (who Celebrimbor SWEARS is helping him craft to work through the grief he has no other intentions) he had Thranduil (or Oropher) in mind when he created Vilya

When Thranduil heard about what happened to his friend and his land during the War of Elves and Sauron he grieved deeply. The only thing he had to remember his friend by was some forgotten blueprints of unfinished jewelry, an Age worth of letters (mostly written in Quenya, he of course had replied in proper Sindarin), a clumsy eight pointed star he laughingly embroidered onto the breast of Thranduil's favourite robe, a set of Sindarin long knives overly embellished with Noldorian swirls, and a box of white gems Celebrimbor hand crafted and left with a promise to come back once he finished his rings and use them to make a matching crown set for Thranduil and his wife to wear whenever he inherited the crown

("There may be even enough left over for a third crown. For your 'little leaf' to grow into whenever you two get around making one." Thranduil's wife laughed with Celebrimbor and sent her husband a leer that set his ears ablaze and Tyelpe's laughter began anew)

And enough regrets to haunt him for Ages. It seemed like bad things always came in three. Celebrimbor, his father, his new homeland. Thranduil led his people north, away from everything he had loved, and kept what remained close to his chest. After his wife was slain shortly after the birth of his son, he refused to lose anyone else. Greenwood the Great began to mirror his grief and became Mirkwood

It was almost another another Age before he decided to commission the Dwarves of Erebor to turn those precious white gems into the crowns Celebrimbor intended. Not for him and his now dead wife, but maybe for Legolas and his future partner. (His little leaf, he could hear Celebrimbor's laughter every time Legolas calls himself "Legolas Greenleaf" with that cheeky grin of his) And if Celebrimbor couldn't make them himself, he would be happy to let his Dwarven friends do the job for him

Thranduil almost burned down the mountain himself when they withheld those gems and one of the last pieces of his dear friend from him

Under the bone deep fear of watching a dragon from his nightmares sack the kingdom, he was a little pleased. Jewel thieves get their due

(He knows that Celebrimbor never swore his grandfather's Oath, but sometimes late at night he wonders if he still carried the curse of it. If that Oath and the Curse of Feanor are the reason his dearest friend died that awful way he did)

It was the beginning of a forth age when those sparking white gems were finally turned into the crowns they were destined to be. And Thranduil could almost hear Celebrimbor's delighted laughter as he watched his only son and heir, his little leaf, marry a dwarf.

When it came time to sail, Thranduil stayed with his people, he has coveted them for so long he now refused to leave unless he was forced too. Legolas, who had somehow made a small boat that could barely withhold the waves of the Western Sea, was greeted with a welcoming and joyful embrace by the Elf he only heard stories about

"Hail Celebrimbor, Lord of Eregion, Crafter of the Rings Of Power, Husband of Narvi son of Vilarvi of Durin's Folk, and most importantly, the dearest friend of my father!" Legolas greeted in flawless Quenya with a very noticeable Feanorian lisp. The gathered crowd twitched a little and Elrond (who was hoping of news of his sons) gave a sigh. "I have much to say, and so does my husband Gimli, but first I must give you my father's message!"

Legolas cleared his throat, and then with mock superior expression, one that made him look just like Thranduil, he said: "Celebrimbor you Spider Spawn of the Shadow, if you worked on my crown instead of those thrice damned Rings like you said, my son would never have married a Dwarf. Once I am reborn you better start running because I am going to burry you in my forest and chop down the tree you become with my anger alone!"

There was a startled gasp of silence on the shores of Valinor, before Celebrimbor burst into peels of joyful laughter. Legolas smiled at his honorary uncle and laughed with him

"As you can see, father missed you very much"

#celebrimbor #thranduil #legolas #lotr #silmarillion #tolkien #gigolas #oropher #while i was writing this i looked up Diors age and homie was 22 when he married his wife and died at 30 #how did any of the elves take him seriously??? he was an infant!!!! Who let this Infant Elf have kids???#absolutely wild i can see oropher being like This is my new king?? I think not and peacing out with most of their people #which is why the second kinslaying went the way it did #anyways enough about dior he was just a bad PR move #I think Thrandy and Tyelpe were best friends your honour #Celebrimbor would have loved legolas and been his biggest supporter in marrying Gimli #if he was let out of Mandos Halls by the time the two of them sailed he would have laughed and adopted Legolas on the spot #Celebrimbor for Best Uncle

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tolkien-feels · 3 years ago

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Feanorian Week Day 5: Curufin

Guess what? I am still doing what I've done every day this week and sharing the first headcanon to come to mind for each prompt

Childhood

This is...... very early in his childhood, but. After Nerdanel goes through her first pregnancy without any issues, Feanor doesn't really worry about her pregnancies ending in death again.... until Curufin. Both pregnancy and birth occur without any complications, but newborn Curufin causes a crisis. Not only is he the very image of baby Feanor according to Finwe, but he's also frustrating Nerdanel to tears. This is the one child she can't bond with. He will feed, sure, but otherwise he favors Feanor so much Nerdanel feels entirely superfluous and that's getting to her. As Curufin goes from newborn to baby, he starts bonding with her too (though Feanor is forever his favorite), but for a while there, Nerdanel was sure her child Hated her, and Feanor was running on almost no sleep while desperately hoping Nerdanel wouldn't just... Fade. Elves aren't really supposed to have bonding difficulties but if Miriel can invent postpartum depression, Nerdanel can invent that because I highly doubt you can give birth to Feanor 2.0 and have it be a blissful experience with no weirdness.

Feanor

It's not easy being the favorite son. Feanor has to be very far gone before his love for his sons turns conditional (and even then the condition is just unquestioning loyalty, which comes easy to Curufin), but there is unconditional love, and then there's living up to Feanor's secret hopes. Curufin lives and dies by his father's approval, and he's aiming for living up to the dreams Feanor doesn't even share. Of course, he has such dreams for all his sons - Curufin knows because he understands him the best - but his dreams for Curufin are the most unattainable, almost like he's hero-worshipping his son. Curufin identifies with this overidealized dream of himself to such an extent that even after Feanor is long dead, he's still chasing this as his goal. That's both a burden and a badge of honor, and it's something not even his brothers can understand. Ironically, Feanor definitely would have, because that was his exact relationship with Finwe.

Forge work

I have mentioned this somewhere before but I feel so strongly about it I will repeat it. Curufin is the son not only of Feanor, but of Nerdanel - his very soul is attuned to crafting. He begins to subcreate as soon as he can play with clay, and he's at the forges the instant it's safe for him to do so. The shaping of metal comes as easily to him as speaking, and in time, he might have approached or perhaps even surpassed Feanor himself. But when he's still a relatively young adult, the hearts of the Noldor start darkening. The pleasure of making turns into lust for the thing made. Curufin begins crafting either out of vanity - to assert his superiority over other crafters - or out of greed - to hoard without sharing. Feanor, going through the exact same change of heart, encourages this. By the time they're in Beleriand, Curufin begins to actually buy things he wants instead of making them, because making seems like too much trouble - why learn new techniques from dwarves when you can trade finished products with them? Every now and then, Curufin feels the urge to go to the forges, but by then not only is he more out of practice than he's ever been in his life, but his heart isn't in the right place. This is compounded by the fact that when he unavoidably fails to execute his ideas well, he has a moment of horror as he imagines how he's ruining his father's legacy. It's not that he subcreates nothing after the Fall of the Noldor, but he hates his own creations so much he melts every single one of them down almost as soon as they've cooled - sometimes even before that.

Celebrimbor

In Valinor and, for a while, in Beleriand, people remark on how close Curufin and Celebrimbor are. Elves and their children are always close, but almost as soon as you meet these two, you can see they have a particularly strong bond. The problem is that both of them compare their bond to the one Curufin has with Feanor, and the one Feanor has with Finwe. No one has ever loved a father as much as Feanor does, and it's mutual. Love is just one of the many things Curufin can't seem to do as well as his father, even though he tries very hard - his bond with Feanor is just the second best, an inferior copy. But his bond with Celebrimbor, powerful as it is, is only a fraction of that. He doesn't know what he's doing wrong, why Celebrimbor's devotion never becomes worship, and he knows Celebrimbor feels similarly confused and guilty. They should probably talk about it, but they love each other too much to ever admit out loud this love is simply inadequate.

Manipulation

Where exactly is the line between eloquence and manipulation? Isn't withholding and twisting information a valid rhetorical device? Curufin doesn't really lie more often than people around him do, he's just very careful with how he frames his words, which is really good practice for everyone - it's not his fault he's the only one with enough self-control to think before he speaks so that his words will have the desired effect on his listeners. That he can be soft-spoken and say what people want to hear is a form of kindness, so it's not a bad thing either. Curufin has met Morgoth, he knows what a trickster acts like, and that's not him, he's just... gifted with people skills he employs strategically.

Ruling of Nargothrond

Contrary to popular belief, Curufin doesn't passionately hates all his relatives. He doesn't love them, but then, he doesn't love many people. For instance, Finrod is annoying and has usurped lands that should have gone to his elder cousins, and he's making a bid for the Silmarils, but at least he's fairly competent, so if not for the Silmarils, Curufin could've worked with him for a while. Orodreth, though? Orodreth Curufin wants to take down for the simple pleasure of ruining the life of someone who doesn't have a single redeeming feature to allow him to claim the honor of being a Finwean. If Finrod hadn't prioritized helping a mortal get involved in matters too great for him, and had instead allied himself with Curufin and Celegorm, they would have sought to strengthen Nargothrond for purely pragmatic reasons. But if it's an injustice to work for Finrod (they're his elders and of the elder House, come on), it's outright humiliating to work for Orodreth. At this point, being in Nargothrond is about asserting his superiority over Orodreth far more than it is about doing any meaningful ruling - not because that's the smart thing to do, but just because Curufin is too constantly pissed off to be rational about it. He's Feanor Jr, he can absolutely do dumb things out of pride.

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diversetolkien · 4 years ago

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I have currently been reading up on your perspectives about the racism, sexism and antisemitism in tolkien's works, which I have found really enlightening and helpful for me as a white person to read, and was wondering of your opinions of the way that trauma and people with mental illnesses are handled in his works especially the Silmarillion.

I am so sorry I took so long to answer this! This is a long answer, so bare with me. In general I’d like to discuss more about Tolkien and his handling of mental illness. Consider this answer a brief introduction :)

I think Tolkien’s treatment of trauma in his works was a reflection of the available treatment in his time, which was incredibly harmful to people experiencing mental illness. I’ve talked about it a bit HERE. (Keep in mind I wrote it two years ago and it needs a lot of revisions, but it gets my point across).

In general I think it was handled badly—but that’s not Tolkien’s fault. I think Tolkien himself was a victim of the lack of resources.

We see characters working through their trauma in ways not necessarily recommended by professionals, in that they just work through them. There’s no addressing if what they’ve experienced, there’s no in depth familial healing sessions. They pick themselves up and go.

And this can be due to the fact that The Silmarillion is just a very brief account of what has happened, but regardless we don’t go in depth. And this can also be because characters don’t have time to cope (or again, the resources).

I think we can look at Elwing for example? Who despite knowing the Feanorians were coming to sack Sirion, did nothing to evacuate her children or her people and was the sole survivor of the massacre. We can judge her and say that she should have seen it coming to begin with, but she was traumatized, and she never had a chance to fully recover from the trauma because she had to go straight into survival mode for her people. She never had a chance to heal, and naturally panicked when the Feanorians arrived.

Had she been taught proper coping mechanisms, maybe she would have acted differently (as in the case with traumatic experiences). You’re likely to react the same way in a certain situation if you are not given appropriate mechanism. This is why people will have less anxiety attacks when learning how to deal with anxiety, vs. not knowing how to deal with it.

Am I saying she was right for how the situation was handled? Not at all. But I’m also saying there’s levels to why she did what she did, no matter how wrong they were.

There’s also a historical occurrence of people being sent away when they experience mental health crises/illnesses, or being hidden. Asylums were a thing in English Psychiatric practices. Asylums were not good places for the mentally ill, and around the 1890’s, England’s public opinion was very much against them (for good reason). Nevertheless, they existed isolated from the city.

There were also cases of wrongful confinement.

In certain characters, I see this very similar to Valinor. When they can’t be dealt with due to trauma, they’re sent away. And we know that Valinor isn’t always the best place for healing, even with the Valar dedicated to it. I think this can be seen in the case of Frodo and Celebrian, and to an extent even Miriel who fandom headcanons was experiencing postpartum depression.

Celebrian was assaulted by orcs, and understandably depressed and traumatized by it. While her family helped, their eventual response was sending her to Valinor where she was never heard of again. Miriel herself already lived in Valinor and still died (which is why I disagree with Valinor being the ‘best place’ for healing), and is practically forgotten about by her husband. In fact he remarries knowing that she still exist and can very well be reembodied. But her problems were too great for him, thus he puts her away and moves on and expects her son not to be angry. We can parallel this to wrongful confinement. It wasn’t unheard of for people to be put away, so that people could move on. This was actually touched up on in Call the Midwife and Jane Erye (the movie), in which there were instances of two men having mentally ill wives, and hiding them/putting them away so they could be remarried.

The assumption is because the family can no loner deal with a problematic family member, they are sent to a place that can’t deal with them either and forgotten. But at least they’re out of the way or out of the narrative.

These practices went well into the 1900’s, and while Tolkien wrote The Silmarillion later in life we can assume he was influenced by them, especially as a survivor of war.

However, things do change regarding the treatment of the mentally ill to a more community based system in the 1970’s. However, prior to this there was a move to get rid of asylums even after the 1890’s (when the Lunacy Act was passed, that gave patients more rights and asylums more policies they needed to follow).

I also want to add that mental illness was also kept in the family. We can see this in the case of Maedhros. Mental illness for monarchs and how they were treated differed greatly. In some instances monarchs were allowed to remain on the throne, and in other cases monarchs were removed. There’s no “one way” that mental illness was handled with them. We can assume that his family dealt with his trauma as much as they could, but like Elwing he never fully recovered.

Maedhros is stated to have been changed due to his experiences, and never fully got a chance to cope given the position and title he held. Though I think maybe him giving up his throne had a lot to do with his trauma. And of course, he did end up committing suicide.

Some drafts Eol is a thrall. After his experiences he lives isolated away from society.

And I do think one of the biggest examples is Feanor? Losing a parent can be incredibly traumatic, especially if it’s not dealt with at a young age.

Sources:

The History of Mental Health Services in Modern England: Practitioner Memories and the Direction of Future Research

Surviving the Lunacy Act of 1890: English Psychiatrists and Professional Development during the Early Twentieth Century

From the asylum to community care: learning from experience

Mental illness in the 16th and 17th centuries

#elwing #maedhros #feanor #The Silmarillion #mental illness #ableism #history #celebrian

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feanarotherindion · 5 years ago

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Why Fëanor is the Way He is

Fëanor's possessiveness over Silmarils brought his doom. He drew sword on his brother. He was brash. He opposed the transition from Therindë to Serindë so much that there are memes out there. But if you look at his childhood, then it is not that surprising. You'd realise that he's most human of all elves.

He lost his mother in childhood. Why? Because she had postpartum depression and his father could not even wait more for her to heal mentally. He could not keep it in his pants because he wanted more kids.

Finwë went to the Valar because he wanted more kids and he's sad because he couldn't get them, and the Valar condemn Miriel to spend eternity in the Halls of Mandos. Why? Just to prevent divorce and preserve monogamy. Seriously? Also they allow it because according to Namo, iirc, Indis's kids will be super awesome. Who cares about Miriel or Fëanáro.

In Feanáro's eyes, the Valar took his mother and his father replaced her easily. If his father can replace her so easily then maybe he is also replaceable. He already has abandonment issues. He loves Finwë and he wants to guard it at any cost. And that leads to excess possessiveness. At this points he needs some love and understanding. He doesn't need his mother's passing being called the result of Arda Marred or some shit like that.

He sees perfect families all around him. He sees little kids with both their mother and father and feels the absence of his mother. He has Indis but in his eyes she is part of the reason why Miriel will never come back and her children as potential replacement of him. His mother hadn't been enough for Finwë and he feels he would not be either.

And if nobody would fight for his mother then he will. That is why he preferred Feanáro over Curufinwë. That is why he opposes the transition from Therindë to Serindë. It is not him being petty. It is him fighting for his dead mother.

The names of his step-brothers don't help any. Finwë gave them such names to announce it to all that they are his children. To give them legitimacy. But in Fëanáro's eyes they are Nolofinwë and Arafinwë- the wise and the noble Finwë- while he is Curufinwë- the skilled one. Yes, it is a nod to his skills but their names are more royal. And that is why he names his children NelyaFINWË, CanaFINWË.... because he feels that he has to keep on asserting this.

His father loves him but that is not enough. The damage is done and it keeps piling up. Presence of Melkor doesn't help any. He is totally against Melkor who is pardoned by the Valar and everyone is totally chill but Feanáro can see a Trainwreck but nobody believes him because they are busy licking the boots of same Valar who took his mother.

He talks shit about the Valar and people give him stink eye (which honestly if a god did that shit to me I'd bash the hell outta them god or no god. So Fëanor has not done anything wrong so far.)

He also says Melkor=bad but nope Valar pardoned him and they must have had a reason. Things happen meanwhile and it gets so bad that they hold trial for this mess. Because Fëanáro had been talking shut about them majorly. Valar learn that indeed Melkor was indeed up to No Good. But it's all derailed and Feanáro draws sword on his brother who had been talking shit about him to their father Finwë. Valar usurp Finwë's authority. They exile him. They are more concerned about Feanáro than Melkor.

His exile must have been another offence to him by the Valar. He has his father at least. So that's alright. Right? Nerdanel goes to stay with Indis. In his mind, Indis stole another person dear to him. He feels attacked from all sides.

Again, shit happens and the Valar now want his Silmarils, the shiney jewels which sound like proto horcruxes... But yeah they want Silmarils. And Feanáro would not give the Valar his shit. The same people who took his mother, who exiled him, who usurped his father, who did nothing against Melkor. Who want him to break his greatest work so Yavanna can save her greatest work. In his mind, nope. Never gonna happen.

Then his father dies. Valar do nothing. As usual. Nothing new there. Also the guy who killed his father? Now named Morgoth, about whom Feanáro warned all and sundry was one of the Valar. So by now they have taken both of his parents. His mental condition is not good but who cares since he lived in literal paradise and they don't care about such inconvenient things when singing praises of Manwë will solve every problem.

Now onto Kinslaying. Well, that was really bad decision on his part. Not gonna defend that. But I will try to explain what he might have been thinking. He saw two options. One would save more of his followers. He took that option. I'm not excusing it. Just explaining.

Onto the ship burning, if you believe Shibboleth of Fëanor to be canon then "Fingolfin has put the prefix "Finwe" to his name Nolofinwe before the Exile reached Middle-earth. This was in pursuance of his claim to be the chieftain of all the Noldor after Finwe's death, and so enraged Feanor that it was no doubt one of the reasons for his treachery in abandoning Fingolfin and stealing away with all ships."

In his eyes Nolofinwë had done exactly what he was fearing. Maybe he also feared war on two fronts. So in a colossal fuck you, to Nolofinwë and probably Teleri as well, he burned those ships.

In Silmarillion, he seemed a mad dog for this. In Shibboleth, that was hilarious.

~*~

In the end, if you look beneath the surface, Fëanor was a really interesting character and hate him or love him, you'll definitely remember him. He is one of the most compelling characters of Tolkien. And honestly, it's Miriel THERINDË. And he was entitled to desire that his mother's name is pronounced correctly. I'd hate it if someone messed up mine.

#fëanor #not for valar fans #Shibboleth of Fëanor #i don't want a debate #im just sharing my views #the Silmarillion #Fingolfin #noldor #finwe's a+ parenting #finwë is an ass #manwë is an ass #its miriel Þerindë #not Serindë #tolkien #the valar

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thatfeanorian · 4 years ago

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Hi there! 😊 I was wondering if you have any Namo HC’s? ❤️

Oh boy you’ve opened a whole can of worms...

- Mandos is different for every visitor, depending on what they need to heal

- Avari killed by Sauron, Teleri from Alqualonde, Sindar who died waiting for Thingol, each of them experience a different version of reality while they exist within the halls

- Namo himself did not design any of this intentionally, just just sort of happened as the souls started to show up

- he is pretty sure he is the only one who sees the halls for exactly what they are

- before the kinslayings Mandos was fairly organized, there were a number of fëar there (Miriel was by no means the first elf to die), but there were few enough that the halls seemed spacious and he was able to keep track of names and mental states fairly easily, even without the help of his Maiar

- that ends fairly quickly with Alqualonde

- suddenly there are crowds of fëar who all seem to be piled in on top of one another, yet none can see the others and all are suffering from the trauma of being stuck through with a pointy metal things they didn’t know could separate their fëa from its body

- there don’t seem to be enough resources to take care of everyone, but Namo doesn’t like asking his wife for things

- “get it yourself, I’m busy”

- sometimes he wonders if she ever leaves the loom, but of course she doesn’t because then she would be missing history

- Irmo isn’t much better, constantly babbling about horses with wings and the effects of testosterone on chickens

- so Namo is just left alone with his Maiar who are suddenly too busy and there is no way to keep track of everyone, but the halls seem to have expanded so at least it’s not so crowded

- he has no idea that could happen; but maybe he no longer sees the halls for what they are either

- perhaps it is just as crowded as it was before, but he needed space so the illusion provided him with that comfort

- as more and more souls arrive one by one, slowly becoming more battered and broken, Namo becomes more and more depressed

- didn’t he warn them? Wasn’t this the fate he had hoped to help them avoid?

-of course, Namo has no idea what he is saying half the time when prophesy comes out of his mouth

- the other valar are like ““dude the heck does that mean?” And he’s just like, “bro I have no idea”

- unfortunately that means that for the most part he is ignored

- even when he offers sound advice like “y’all don’t go to try to stop the evil god dude and his boyfriend, you ain’t powerful enough my dudes”

- one of Namo’s biggest pleasures is being able to release a soul from his halls, to be able to know that they are fully healed and able to go back to the world he helped to create

- this does not happen nearly as frequently as he would hope, and after a while it begins to hurt him that so few feel able to leave again

- it is painful to see the beauty of eru’s creations tortured so fully they cannot return to the living world and remain fractured beyond compare

- Fëanor is the first elf to enter his halls who understands

- Namo often goes to him where he sits, torturing himself by watching the future unfold

- fëanor never welcomes him and Namo is often greater by rude remarks or subtle insults, but Namo always returns

- unlike the others, fëanor begins his stay in the halls full and firey

- but as time passes and he sees history writing itself upon Namos walls his fëa breaks, fracturing in two down the center so that the fire hidden within shines out dengerously bright

- even though the other dead cannot see him, they stay away from the corner which the spirit of fire has claimed as his own

- time passes and still fëanor does not get better, the cracks only deepen

- somewhere in another corner of the halls, his family arrives, one by one.

- none of them can see him

- fëanor rages constantly now, vowing to escape and to destroy Melkor himself

- his fëa burns even Namo if he gets too close

- but the Vala cannot stay away, his purpose is to heal the dead, and fëanor needs his help more even than Maedhros who sits huddled in a corner, by some miracle reunited with his beloved

- Namo thinks that perhaps Fingon needed Maedhros just as much as Maedhros needed Fingon

- perhaps fëanor needs a person and that is why he is so hurt

- Namo is seems as dark and moody by his fellow valar, often made fun of because he prefers time to himself rather than time spent in company

- in truth, he cries for the dead he cannot heal, and sees each of his visitors personally at least once

- he wants nothing more than to gather them all into his arms and to pour his own life force into each one of them until they are better

- fëanor leaves the halls eventually, the only fëa who Namo ever sends away unhealed

- but he knows for certain (he doesn’t know how) that the one who can heal Fëanor’s cracks is not within the halls

- ““have you gotten tired of me then?” Feanor asks sarcastically as Namo motions towards the door, and the Vala wonders what tired is

- he does not wish fëanor gone, but there is no more fëanor can fix within his halls

- his fellow valar are enraged that he has released the spirit of fire, and in return to their anger he says what fëanor had told him a thousand times when Namo would attempt to speak with him

- “piss off”

- he discovers on that day that he has two new favourite words

- they finally made manwë shut up

GOOD LORD... this turned into a whole story, but I hope you enjoyed??? Hopefully there’s some quality headcanons in there... I did warn you.

If u want to talk more I’d love to dm??

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sweetteaanddragons · 6 years ago

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Oh god don't take risk assessments from Fingon, Gil-galad. I'm so glad the family claims him, and I'm curious to hear the author's theory on where this one is from. My dumb theory: since the Elves' Maia heritage is down to Elrond, his sons, and maybe Elured and Elurin, it would be nice if he turned out to be related to the missing twins. My actual theory: no one in particular, the world is built by the ones who show up to work.

It’s not a dumb theory! It’s not, however, what I went with. For that, see below.

Quick note: Maglor’s wife in this is the same as his wife in my alternate character interpretation snippet for her. This will probably make more sense if you read that first.

Maedhros is barely a shadow when he first gets there, but Fingon stubbornly sticks around.

When Maedhros is well enough to listen and, in his opinion, in need of some distraction, he finally asks.

“I’m trying to figure out Gil-Galad’s parentage. I don’t suppose you know?”

Maehros looks startled, which is at least better than horrifically depressed. “He’s not yours?”

Fingon’s heard that from others. A lot of others. He doesn’t know why everyone keeps assuming that.

“Not mine.”

He’ll have to try Maedhros’s brothers later. For now, he’s right where he needs to be.

“Fingon,” Curufin says from his place on the floor. He hasn’t bothered to open his eyes. Fingon never did learn the trick to that. “What do you want?”

Nice to see his time in Mandos hasn’t changed him. “To talk.”

“About?”

Fingon gives up and gets straight to the point. “Offspring.”

Curufin cracks one eye open and rolls over to face him. His face is shadowed through the bars. “I didn’t think you had any.”

“Yours,” he clarifies.

That catches Curufin’s attention completely. He rolls to his feet, face tense. “Has something happened to Celebrimbor? The tapestries here are useless.”

Whoever’s in charge of these things apparently decided Curufin would benefit from graphic scenes of Finrod’s imprisonment. Fingon’s been trying not to look at them.

“He’s fine,” he assures him. “Or at least he was fine the last time someone died, there hasn’t been nearly as much of that going around since the war ended. I wanted to ask about the potential for . . . other offspring.”

Curufin looks around the lonely confines his cell with grim amusement. The bars are set deep into the stone. If there’s hinges or a lock, they aren’t visible. “At the moment, I would say the potential was low.”

“Already produced offspring,” Fingon further clarifies.

Curufin frowns. “Why . . . ?” His face goes pale. “Has Nirivel . . . Is there a child she’s saying is mine?”

Judging by his face, if that was the case there’s no chance the child actually would be.

“No, no,” Fingon assures him. “Nothing like that. I’m just trying to figure out who Gil-Galad belongs to.”

Curufin rolls his eyes. It almost distracts from his slowly returning color. “And you couldn’t just say that? In case you’ve forgotten, Fingon, my wife stayed on these shores. Gil-Galad was born in Beleriand.”

That’s not actually technically a denial, so Fingon pushes on cautiously. “Under the circumstance, remarriage - “

Curufin stalks forward until he’s gripping the bars in a white knuckled rage. “I am no oathbreaker,” he hisses.

“The Valar know we all wish you were,” Fingon mutters without thinking.

Curufin steps away from the bars. The rage has disappeared into a blank pleasantness that makes Fingon far more uneasy. “Forgive me. I should not have been so surprised by the question. I shouldn’t have forgotten that you were of the line of Indis and have strange ideas of family fidelity.”

“Of the two of us, which of us actually - “ Fingon cuts himself off. “No. We’re not having this fight again. Or the other fight. Or any fights! I know what I need to know.” He hesitates before he heads back into the maze of winding tunnels. “Maedhros sends his love.”

Curufin actually looks relieved for a moment before the mask descends again. Fingon’s surprised he saw anything; solitary must have decayed Curufin’s skills at hiding considerably.

The relief brings to mind what had escaped him before. “You do know about - ?”

“How he died?” Curufin interrupts. He smiles bitterly. “You’re not my very first visitor. Nienna brings news sometimes.” His look turns puzzled. “How are you here? Namo sentenced me to solitary confinement.”

“I petitioned to visit Maedhros,” Fingon explains. “Repeatedly.”

Curufin makes a show of looking around. “Unless I’m very much mistaken, he’s not here.”

“Yes, well, by the time he gave in, he was far too frustrated to be careful with his word choice, and what he actually said was ‘Visit the kinslayer if you want to!’ Which as I view it, really gives me leave to visit just about everyone here.”

For the first time in centuries, he hears Curufin laugh.

He stumbles across Uncle Feanor next.

He’s . . . not entirely sure what he’s seeing at first when he does.

“Are you unravelling Vaire’s tapestry?” he chokes out.

Uncle Feanor leaps to his feet. “Findekano! What an unexpected pleasure. I’d been hoping for a chance to thank you for what you did for Maitimo.”

Fingon can’t tear his eyes away from the loose threads that once made up an entire wall of tapestry. Some of them have been laid out in complex patterns. “It’s Fingon now,” he manages. “And you’re definitely unravelling the tapestry. Why are you unravelling the tapestry? There’s a stone wall behind it, it’s not like it’ll get you out! Is it the scene?”

The scene is . . . Maedhros yielding the crown to Fingon’s father which strikes him as a little petty, but at least it explains why Uncle Feanor’s unravelling it.

Or not, because what Uncle Feanor actually says is, “Oh, no. I needed materials, and this was the best option.”

“Materials? What can you possible do with all that?”

Feanor eyes the mass of thread thoughtfully. “Well, it’s woven through with the essence of time and space, so I’m hoping for a form of transport through either.”

This terrifying image needs only a moment to sear through his brain. “Please don’t invent time travel, Uncle Feanor.” It comes out a little strangled.

“Why not? There’s a good deal that could be improved from what Nienna tells me. Anyway, that can’t be why you’ve come. Do you have news? Have you seen my sons?”

Fingon tears his eyes away from the threads. “Two of them. Curufin and Maedhros. Curufin’s well enough. Maedhros is . . . better.” That’s really the best he can say of that, so he hurries on. “I’ve been trying to discover Gil-Galad’s parentage. Unless he’s Galadriel’s, we’re pretty sure he had to come from your branch.”

“Another grandson!” Feanor sounds both surprised and delighted, which at least answers the question that Fingon had been trying not to think about having to ask - Namely, if Feanor had been responsible. The timeline had made it unlikely at best, but he’s trying to be thorough.

“I’d probably best delay testing this until you know more,” Feanor muses. “I’d hate to accidentally wipe a grandson out of existence.”

“Yes. Absolutely. Just - Hold off.” Please, please hold off on potentially destroying the very fabric of Arda. “I’ll let you know what I find out.”

Just maybe not until he’s figured out how to make sure Feanor’s focused on the geographical aspect of travel.

He has no idea how long it takes him to find Celegorm, but if anyone asks later, he’s going to tell them weeks. That’s certainly what it feels like. The tunnels here are far less open that most of Mandos’s Halls, and he’s starting to feel claustrophobic.

He can only imagine what it must be like in the cells.

Celegorm manages to get the first word in because Fingon is too busy gaping at the image on his walls. It’s Huan as he dies, in vivid enough detail that it makes Fingon want to cry out, and he barely knew the hound.

“I don’t know where Maedhros is,” Celegorm says. He’s sitting by Huan’s head. It’s possible that he was petting the cloth just before Fingon showed up; Fingon certainly isn’t going to judge him if he was.

“That’s alright,” Fingon tells him. “I do. He sends his love. I also saw your father, who was very eager for news of all of you.” Fingon leaves out the rest of what Feanor is currently very interested in. He’s not sure he can get through it without his terror showing through, and that could very well start a fight. “If I see any more of your brothers, is there a message I should carry along?”

“Tell them that with practice and application, it is actually possible to climb these walls.”

Fingon blinks. “And this will be . . . useful in an escape attempt?”

“It’ll be useful in not going out of our collective minds,” Celegorm snarls. “There’s no room to move in here.”

Fingon eyes the tiny space and remembers his own growing claustrophobia. “I see your point.” There’s really no way to gracefully segue into this next bit, so he just dives right in. “Remember Gil-Galad?”

Celegorm frowns. “Of course I do. Why? Is he dead?”

“No, thankfully.” Fingon watches him carefully for a reaction to this news, but Celegorm just shrugs.

“Good for him. What about him then?”

“Is he yours?”

Celegorm stares at him for a very long time. “You do remember the whole Luthien incident, don’t you?”

“I think everyone does.”

“Thank you,” he says through gritted teeth. “You might remember that part of that incident involved me trying to get married. So unless you’re suggesting that I succeeded, had him with Luthien, and then somehow invented time travel and sent him back - “

Fingon flinches at the words ‘time travel.’ Thankfully, Celegorm’s in full on ranting mode and doesn’t seem to notice.

His ears are still ringing when he finds his next cousin. “Amras!”

The twin looks up in desperate hope, but the light in his eyes fades quickly. “Amrod,” he corrects.

“Right. Sorry.” He should have just gone with Ambarussa.

At first glance, the walls in Amrod’s cell look fine. It’s just him and Amras eating a meal together, right after a hunting trip judging by the gear on their horses.

Then he realizes that Amrod’s backed himself up against the image of himself so that it looks like he’s sitting beside Amras, and he has to fight back a wince.

“If I find him, I’ll come back and let you know,” he promises. The corridors he hasn’t taken are still mysteries, but he’s keeping good track of the ones he has. The last thing he wants is to get lost here. He’ll be able to find his way back easily enough.

A bit of the life returns to Amrod’s face. “Would you? I just - It’s not that we were never apart. It’s just never been for this long before.” He looks down for a moment. “Have you seen any of the others? Are they alright?”

“About as well as can be expected,” Fingon says which Amrod, fairly, doesn’t seem to find all that reassuring. “Listen, I don’t suppose you ever - “

The answer, it turns out, is no.

“Amras!” he says with considerable confidence.

“Amrod,” the Feanorian corrects.

Fingon’s jaw dropped in horror. “I’ve circled back around? No, I can’t have, I - Wait a minute. Your wall hangings are a bit different. One of you’s lying,” he concludes triumphantly.

Amras - Amrod - whichever one he is has risen in the interim and crossed to the bars. “You’ve seen him? You’ve seen Amrod?”

“I knew you were Amras,” he mutters petulantly. “Yes, I’ve seen him. He misses you desperately and gave me about a hundred messages to give you. I’ll try to remember them in a minute, but first I’ve got a message of my own.”

“Of course,” Amras says and sets his jaw. “Doriath or the Havens?”

Fingon’s actually doing his best not to think about either of those messes. He’s not king anymore, it’s not his responsibility. “Neither. Gil-Galad.”

“What’d we ever do to him?” Amras protests.

“Created him, possibly. That’s what I’m trying to find out.”

“Creat- Like with gears? Because that’s really more along Curufin’s line.”

“Like with a woman,” he says in exasperation.

“Oh. No. I thought that would be a bad idea, what with the Doom and all.”

Fingon can’t exactly argue with that. “Maybe Celebrimbor managed to slip away from his father long enough to meet a girl.”

“Anything’s possible. Have you asked Caranthir yet?”

“No.”

“Are you sure?” Fingon wheedles. They’re not quite to the end of the line yet - there’s still Maglor and maybe Celebrimbor - but they’re getting close. He’d had a good feeling about Caranthir.

“We tried,” Caranthir says. His voice has an edge of anger, but what’s far stronger is the longing, mixed with grief. “Right up until she died.”

. . . That doesn’t actually rule it out. And if he’s any judge of his cousin, Caranthir would very much like to be a father.

Firien goes on his list of people to track down.

“Maybe he’s Maglor’s,” Caranthir suggests.

“Maglor’s not dead, though, so I can’t ask him.”

Caranthir looks at him like he’s being exceptionally stupid. “Have you tried asking his wife?”

Fingon feels exceptionally stupid.

“Did Aranel actually fight at Alqualonde, or was she just there?”

“She fought.”

“Right. Then she’s got to be around here somewhere.”

By the time he actually manages to track either of the wives down, Celebrimbor’s died. Despite what Curufin seems to think, Fingon retains enough tact to wait until he’s somewhat recovered to ask him if he’s responsible for Gil-Galad.

He’s not, but he is able to relay a series of increasingly improbable and hilarious theories that are apparently floating around the court.

Then in quick succession, he finds Aranel and Firien and Aredhel finds him.

Aranel’s locked in with the kinslayers and is the first person who’s been less than pleased to see Fingon.

“Come to lecture me on corrupting my husband?”

Fingon has to take nearly a minute to process this. Finally, the best he can come up with is “What?”

She looks up at him. Her face is set in hard lines of preemptive anger. “That’s what Atar said when Namo let him see me. He said my marring must have corrupted the prince. Maybe even his whole family.”

Maglor used to verbally eviscerate people for saying much, much less. Fingon wants no part of that minefield. He raises his hands in surrender. “I’m not here to blame you for your husband.”

Judging by the way her eyes shutter, that probably still wasn’t the right path to take. Some marriages shattered in the long war; apparently their’s did not.

“I just came to ask about any . . . children.”

“Children?” she repeats blankly. “You mean the Peredhel?”

He’s surprised she knows about that until he takes a closer look at the tapestry. He’d thought it was just Sirion burning, but no. It shows Maglor claiming the twins as well. Apparently someone’s given her context.

“I don’t know why everyone keeps thinking that’s the part I should be most upset about,” she says heatedly. “He defied his Oath when he let them go when it was safe. I’m proud of him, not concerned because he was raising children while I was gone!”

“Not those children,” he corrects, because he’s not about to get in the middle of that whole mess. “I meant any children you might have had with him. Together.”

“Why?” she asks with a slow edge of suspicion.

Fingon explains Gil-Galad.

“What happens if you don’t like the answer you get?”

Fingon honestly hasn’t considered this up to now. “What do you mean?”

“What if he is mine? Is he marred in your eyes? What if he’s not, and he’s not Firien’s either? Is he not worthy of the crown? Why does this matter so much to you?”

“Honestly?” Fingon takes a deep breath. “I’m curious. I don’t have any better reasons. I’m just dead and bored and curious.”

She doesn’t believe him. Fingon can’t quite blame her. She’s been judged her whole life for the circumstances thrust upon her at her birth, and that only worsened after true marring was revealed in Melkor; it’s little wonder she fears the same for Gil-Galad if it turns out he’s not quite as perfect as everyone thought.

“In that case, you can consider it settled. He’s mine. Mine and Maglor’s.”

Fingon . . . isn’t sure if he believes her. “Why send him to Nargothrond? Why keep him a secret?”

“He was stolen,” she says promptly. “We thought he was dead and had no words to share our grief. I have no idea what happened in his early life. I had no idea where he even was until you explained Gil-Galad’s circumstances. That’s not what I named him.” She reels this off matter of factly with no obvious sign of grief.

Fingon is particularly suspicious of the stolen child part of this story given what she’s been staring at for these past few centuries. “What did you name him?” he challenges her.

“Fingon,” she says instantly. “Because Maglor was so grateful for what you’d done for his brother.”

Fingon is . . . almost certain she’s lying. Almost.

On the other hand, it’s the best explanation anyone’s been able to hand him yet.

He’s still mulling it over in his mind when he emerges back into the Halls proper. Firien immediately comes flying into him. Only her tiny height keeps him from toppling. “You found him!”

“Found who - Oh, Caranthir, yes.”

“You found him too? Can you show me where? And what do you know about my baby?”

He’d forgotten how very little like Caranthir Firien is. Also -

“Your baby?”

According to Firien, she hadn’t realized their efforts had finally succeeded when she volunteered to go with the trading caravan. By the time she realized, it seemed safest just to continue on. All had been well until the return, when they’d been attacked only minutes after she had given birth. She had died shortly after hiding the baby as best she could.

Her telling is somewhat more convincing than Aranel’s. Then again, she also used to be a performer, so . . .

Fingon hates his life. Death. Whatever.

Naturally, that’s when Aredhel shows up and announces that Gil-Galad is actually hers.

Her grandson, that is.

According to her, Turgon had pressured Maeglin to marry someone to turn his mind away from Idril. He’d given in and married a girl who’d gotten tired of always coming in second place and run off, apparently while pregnant.

Fingon has no idea if any of that’s true and has no way to check it because Aredhel’s the only one who actually knows where to find Maeglin, he doesn’t have a name for the girl, and Turgon’s already gotten early release for good behavior.

Namo’s been hinting strongly about good behavior lately. Fingon, increasingly convinced that he’s the only reason that his Feanorian cousins are still sane and that his uncle hasn’t gone ahead with his plans to possibly erase them all from existence, cheerfully ignores him.

That’s the short list that at long last he’s able to present Gil-Galad with. If Gil-Galad is in fact part of Finwe’s family tree - and judging by his power and a certain resemblance, Fingon is inclined to think he is - than those are his most likely options.

“Firien’s story is remarkably similar to a theory Elrond came up with,” Gil-Galad says wistfully. “He has an uncanny knack for being right about things, you know.” He sighs.

“Cheer up,” Fingon tells him. “Like I said, we can always pester Namo into telling us eventually. Or you might feel something when you meet them! And really it’s only two options since we know Aranel has to be lying since she claimed to actually name you . . . Although Maglor probably wouldn’t mind claiming you, given his track record, so we could always just pretend you were and go with it.”

“No,” Gil-Galad says firmly. “I want to know the truth.”

“Let’s start with the ones we won’t have to sneak you in for then, and then I can introduce you to the rest of the family.”

Fingon’s money’s on Caranthir.

. . . Which means Feanor will now feel free to resume his experiments.

Oh, well. He hasn’t gotten this far by being cautious. How badly could it possibly go wrong?

Fingon shuts that thought down quickly and drags Gil-Galad through the Halls to Firien, who takes one look at Gil-Galad and throws herself at him, wrapping him in the tightest hug she can manage, even though her head barely comes up to his chin.

She’s crying. Gil-Galad, who’s holding her like she something fragile, looks like he might start.

Fingon feels a bit like crying too.

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gurguliare · 8 years ago

Text

notes on the valar’s debate re: finwë and miriel because whatever i guess i’m a tolkien blog again suddenly

valar present: all the aratar minus oromë and varda, but plus vairë. apparent difficulty of getting all the valar in a room is very touchingly + frighteningly provisional government. i’m not surprised oromë skipped, mildly interested in varda’s absence since varda hallows the silmarils and that’s like, the most we see her interact with an elf ever, but apparently she wasn’t as concerned with fëanor’s parents. someone write me fëanor + varda fic that isn’t primarily or exclusively about how hallowing another person’s family jewels is Illegal, thank you.

Things I Am Interested In About The Debate Itself:

aulë argues that miriel’s death (or as he wants to frame it, fëanor’s birth) was direct action on eru’s part, and that it’s therefore a mistake to talk about it as connected to the marring of arda. i love aulë’s shitty partisan tunnel vision. characterization-wise my goal for him is always to invent a melkor parallel, so, uh, belief in absolute creative control, i guess? god can always tweak his machine.

ulmo shoots back that miriel’s death CAN’T be a [thing apart from the marring] because miriel’s death has had shitty, ruinous consequences of its own, namely, it made people sad, and eru “doth not of his prime motion impose grief upon them.” ulmo acknowledges that eru is the ultimate source of all crap, grief included, but basically rejects aulë’s concept of eru acting without intermediary in a way that causes deep harm. as always, ulmo + numenor depresses me, albeit i guess not many people were left alive to grieve. between ulmo’s stance here and his speech to tuor in “of the coming of tuor to gondolin,” i think we can go past “ulmo is a rogue agent” and say that ulmo is invested in an ideal eru who may not be the same as the eru who presently exists (or, atemporally, may not be the same as... every eru who exists?); ulmo in a pinch will guilt trip god, or to take sides when god contradicts itself---not, “the contradiction must also be eru’s will and it’s our limited perspective that makes it seem evil,” but “the things i know to be right in eru are the substance of eru that i accept; the rest is a wall to be broken down, not a burden we rationalize or reconcile ourselves to.” HEAL GOD HEAL GOD HEAL GOD ulmo is, of course, jewish.*

*caveat: i have no idea what i’m talking about

yavanna backs up ulmo, which is neat---yavanna compared to ulmo is less touchy-feely, less involved with humanoids in general, so it’s not an instant association for me, but yavanna ofc also makes one of the iconic appeals-on-behalf-of-creation, which reveals a possible flaw in the design and gets a special accommodation granted: ents! here her focus is more technical (aman isn’t beyond the reach of the marring generally, and who would know better than her; everything made of matter is affected by melkor), but in a way that reveals the solid grounding for her brand of protective ardor; she’s also an engineer, though one long since resigned to the messy randomness of creation and its collaborative basis.

nienna similarly goes pretty in-depth with a consideration of psychological as well as physical frailty; despite my jokes about nienna the neural network, she lays out a lot of theory here. ulmo gets shirty about, uh, weighting temporal creatures’ in-the-moment understanding of their own abilities above their real potential to endure; in passing he touches on the fact that the valar’s interference deffos made things worse (because miriel, given an ultimatum, of course doubled down on her decision). vairë says, no, miriel is just pigheaded. in my memory of the debate i had attributed some of nienna’s stuff to vairë---i actually don’t quite know what to make of vairë’s position, or rather, of what it adds, except that she takes nienna’s relatively external + patronizing take on fallible minds and argues instead for a kind of terrible accuracy of perception between elf souls that the valar can have no frame of reference for. (vairë and mandos in different ways both strike me as bizarrely prone to, idk, taking elves seriously---see also “If thraldom it be, thou canst not escape it,” which is brutal! but which accepts feanor’s skewed model in order to enter a dialogue with him, rather than talking over his head about how his perspective is delusional.)

i haven’t touched on manwë’s and mandos’s comments in the debate because both are interesting but fairly self-explanatory. “everything else you wrote here was self-explanatory” shh. AND NOW, onto my favorite parts of this stupid essay:

1) nienna gets the bright idea to just, stuff miriel back into her corpse, and takes it to mandos privately as though no one else needs to be consulted about this and as though all the prior objections to miriel’s reincarnation just Stopped Existing because LOOK, the body’s FINE, and i HAD THIS IDEA

2) after the rebellion they do exactly that. they just pop her back in.

Then the fëa of Míriel was released and came before Manwë and received his blessing; and she went then to Lorien and re-entered her body, and awoke again, as one that cometh out of a deep sleep; and she arose and her body was refreshed. But after she had stood in the twilight of Lorien a long while in thought, remembering her former life, and all the tidings that she had learned, her heart was still sad, and she had no desire to return to her own people. Therefore she went to the doors of the House of Vairë and prayed to be admitted; and this prayer was granted, although in that House none of the Living dwelt nor have others ever entered it in the body.

i love it. i love it so much. i love miriel standing and thinking, i love that having already had a kind of ecstatic ghost turnaround after talking to finwe, where she’s like, i will! i will come back to life!---coming back to life is still hard. she sobers up and her understanding changes again once she’s returned to the world; she gets so many pivots in two pages and it doesn’t feel silly or trivial, it feels amazing, because this is the woman who vairë thought would stay dead until the end of the world---i guess that’s the other big function of vairë’s bit, is it lets us take seriously the idea that miriel COULD have. she was feanor’s mother. and yet by some chance she relented, and it wasn’t like, break the old resolve, form a new one, follow that just as doggedly, it’s that she breaks the old resolve and ends up in this totally new, thoughtful, responsive mindset, In The Twilight Of Lorien, she has the freedom to find out and follow her own impulses at last, and if the impulse runs out she abandons it

and she gets what she wants!! although in that house none of the living dwelt nor have others ever entered it in body!

also, from when she’s still talking stuff over with finwë:

And when she learned of Finwë all that had befallen since her departure (for she had given no heed to, nor asked tidings, until then) she was greatly moved; and she said to Finwë in thought: ‘I erred in leaving thee and our son, or at least in not soon returning after brief repose; for had I done so he might have grown wiser. But the children of Indis shall redress his errors and therefore I am glad that they should have being, and Indis hath my love. How should I bear grudge against one who received what I rejected and cherished what I abandoned?’

so, 1) i suspect that ghosts’ mental processing is not exactly like living people’s, because regardless of how seriously depressed míriel was when she died, ‘had given no heed to, nor asked tidings’ is real hardcore, also i just want ghosts to not be very much like living people 2) GOD the thing about indis’s kids... i love....... the fucked up blowup of an ideal sibling relationship of mutual correction and help into this continent-wide, fairly miserable chase sequence. cleaning up after the dead. and yet miriel with the wide-angle view can’t help but see in it the seeds of what should have been and also something to be grateful for

living handmaiden miriel/ghost finwë who hovers over her shoulder while she’s weaving and asks “is that anime”/embittered single mom indis is the BEST THREESOME, qed*

*i proved nothing

#silmarillion #miriel #ulmo #aule #yavanna #nienna #feanor

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northeasternwind · 8 years ago

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HM.....

I’ve been thinking about how to Everyone Lives AU the Silmarillion without changing the plot so drastically it’s unrecognizable (hint: you can’t) and I do have some ideas. tw for suicide mention ):

-Finwe and Miriel still die because I don’t much care about them lmao. -As long as I’m thinking about it, lemme throw it out there that Miriel definitely sounds suicidally depressed and definitely died of it, so... If you die of suicidal depression, does your death still count as suicide even if you just went to sleep and never woke up? Suicide is just the fatal symptom of depression after all. -Also she has to set the precedent for dying mothers that all dying mothers after her must follow ahaha -Depending on whether or not you care about the Teleri the Kinslaying can either happen or not happen lmao. -Either way the Noldor obtain boats and do the sailing thing:

1. If Kinslaying, they reach the other side and Maedhros says dad i stg and they send the boats back 2. If no Kinslaying then presumably they built their own fleet big enough for all of them and Feanor is free to burn the ships if he fuckin wants to LMAO

-finarfin still changes his mind and turns back either way because fuck, this is more trouble than it’s worth and someone’s gotta be the sensible bro

-because Feanor does not want to fuckin die in his very first battle while his younger brother lives/watches he doesn’t do the angry death battle thing. -pick whether or not Maedhros on Thangorodrim happens because honestly I’d feel bad erasing that part of his story. And Fingon’s too. Maybe it just didn’t last as long lol

-Thingol happens as usual regardless of kinslaying tbh because feanor is an enormous asshole lmfao -Turgon and Aredhel fuck off to build Gondolin, Aredhel leaves as usual -Aredhel catches sight of Eol and says DAMN, THAT IS SOME HOT BOOTY and bangs him -She then says ‘kay that was fun but i’m leaving now and when he says no we are marry you must stay she hits him over the head with something and leaves anyway -the forest just kind of lets her lmao -MAEGLIN! \o/ He is Smol and born in Gondolin so his crush on Idril is cute instead of creepy and he grows out of it lmao. -Eol still happens as usual except Curufin murders the shit out of him and he just never sees Aredhel again lol -Apparently Aredhel is a nickname and not her actual Sindarized name??? i am confuse

-Feanor dies in the Dagor Bragollach instead of Fingolfin, except he does so in his canon lame way so he doesnt get a cool story about it lol -Maedhros presumably gave up his spot to Fingolfin when Fingon rescued him so that proceeds as normal -Galadriel’s brothers still die because I don’t care about them either lmao but they can live tbh let galadriel have brothers

-THE TALE OF BEREN AND LUTHIEN PROCEEDS EXACTLY AS NORMAL BECAUSE SORRY FINROD, BUT YOU ARE A SMALL SACRIFICE FOR THE TERRIFIC THAT IS THAT TALE -oh, except huan lives. doge \o/ -i guess you could have him live and it wouldn’t change anything LMAO i mean i did in my fic

-Fingolfin can die in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad instead of Fingon, sorry dad but there have to be sacrifices. i mean you can have him live if you want to it wouldn’t change anything but hey

THAT’S AS FAR AS I’VE GOTTEN TBH BECAUSE I GOTTA DECIDE HOW THE FALL OF GONDOLIN AND DORIATH HAPPEN maybe gondolin can happen as usual tbh but that still leaves doriath. and tiny el-siblings ;__;

#passing wind #i haven't read the silmarillion LMAO #I CAN BEND IT HOWEVER I LIKE #long post

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sweetteaanddragons · 6 years ago

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Because I Walked Away from Death

Happy Halloween everyone!

Sadly, this isn’t particularly spooky, though it does start out very depressing. Maedhros is not a happy camper. Please keep that in mind.

He means to die. He steps to the very edge of the crack, looks into the magma below, and means to jump. It cannot possibly hurt worse than the Silmaril burning through his hand.

But Maglor sees him, and Maglor runs forward, and Maglor shoves him to safety -

And then Maglor - Maglor -

It is not, it turns out, a very stable piece of land, that edge.

Maedhros springs forward with a cry, but his last living brother slips through his fingers, and the last he hears of his brother’s beautiful voice is a scream as bad as any in Angband.

Maedhros stares down at the magma and there is no reason in the world not to join him.

No reason save that Maglor has just - just -

Maglor is gone because he didn’t want Maedhros to do that. All of his other brothers have died for nothing. He cannot let Maglor do the same.

That’s what he reasons out later.

The moment it happens he just stands there and can’t move, can’t breathe, can’t -

Can’t.

He wanders. He doesn’t care where he goes. It doesn’t matter.

He puts the Silmaril in a pouch at his waist.

In his dreams, it still burns.

He hears scraps of news sometimes. Tyelpe still lives and is building a city. Elros is mortal and sailing to build a new kingdom. Elrond is serving under Gil-Galad.

There is other news too, but it falls out of his head like water through a sieve, like hope from the Noldor, like Maglor from his outstretched hand.

It’s hard to survive on his own with just one badly scarred hand.

When the Silmaril falls from its pouch and he reaches out unthinkingly to catch it, hard becomes impossible. The fresh burn on top of the scar makes nearly everything unmanageable.

In a hand curled like a claw, he manages to scoop the Silmaril back into its pouch. He doesn’t bother looking for water to soak his hand in.

He just turns his face to Tyelpe’s city. Possibly he will be cut down at the gates, but it doesn’t matter.

All that matters is getting the Silmaril somewhere safe. He cannot just hold onto it until some poor traveler pries it from his corpse and accidentally starts another war. Tyelpe will know what to do with it.

And then Maedhros can go back to the wilderness and walk until he cannot walk anymore, and it will not be his fault when he falls.

Or at least no more his fault than everything is.

He has a dozen stories planned to get through the gates. He doesn’t end up using any of them because absolutely no one tries to stop him from strolling right in.

Maedhros frowns and thinks that perhaps before he goes he should talk to Tyelpe about his security.

He is not sure where to find his nephew, and he doesn’t dare draw attention to himself by asking, so he just heads toward the forges and hopes for the best.

It works. He hears a familiar voice ranting passionately inside the largest one, and he slips inside. Tyelpe is there, project momentarily set aside to debate some point with his companion.

“Tyelpe,” Maedhros calls, and his voice breaks. “Celebrimbor,” he corrects because that’s what his nephew prefers now, isn’t it?

Celebrimbor turns, eyes going wide. His companion turns too, and Maedhros stumbles back when he sees those eyes.

“Gorthaur,” he chokes out in horror. A thousand remembered pains return.

Celebrimbor tenses, but the monster just frowns in concern. “I am called Annatar, my friend. Are you quite well?”

“Do not try your tricks on me,” Maedhros spits. “I learned to see through them all by the end.”

“By the - Then you were a thrall! I assure you, you are safe here. Perhaps a healer - “ He stops when Celebrimbor draws back towards Maedhros. “Surely you are not taking these ravings seriously!”

Celebrimbor says nothing, just looks grimly between them, and Maedhros -

Maedhros is desperate and has nothing left to lose save his nephew, so he puts his ruined hand into the pouch and draws forth the Silmaril with its condemning light.

It does not burn.

In the amazement over that, he almost misses Sauron’s flinch.

Celebrimbor does not, and Sauron knows it. He immediately changes tactics.

“I did warn you that not all in my past was to the good,” he says mournfully. “I have changed, Celebrimbor. I desire a new start. Surely you of all people can understand that?”

Celebrimbor hesitates.

Sauron presses. “Think of all the good we could still do together, the things we could build, the power we could share - “

Celebrimbor’s face shuts down instantly. “As my grandfather once said: Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos.”

Sauron’s face becomes terrible in its wrath. “And how will you make me, least and weakest of a failed line?” he hisses. “Your mightiest elders could not vanquish me, and you think you will? With what? The sword you leave carelessly in your room? The Silmaril you know not how to wield? The aid of an uncle who can no longer even grasp a weapon?”

He’s not entirely wrong. Maedhros does the only thing he can think of.

He is already far beyond his father’s forgiveness in any case for letting his brothers die, and the Oath is given up for lost.

He throws the Silmaril directly at Sauron’s face.

Only Feanor and the Valar may know how to properly wield its magic, but its burning properties are straightforward enough.

Sauron screams.

And Celebrimbor reaches into his pocket, and when he pulls his hand out, he’s wearing three blindingly bright rings. He clenches his hand into a fist and repeats, “Get. Thee. Gone.”

The wave of power is so immense that Maedhros stumbles back.

Sauron howls in wounded fury and vanishes.

“He’ll be back,” Maedhros says wearily and plods his way towards the Silmaril. He probably ought to scoop it up again. He’s not sure if the non-burning trend will continue when he’s not in direct opposition to the greatest evil remaining in this world.

“Of course he will be,” Celebrimbor says and sits down rather hard on the nearest available surface in order to better laugh rather hysterically. “Sauron. In my city.”

“You dismissed him well,” Maedhros offers. “Though I don’t think he was technically ever a prisoner of Mandos.”

“Yes. Well. You try thinking of something nicely witty in the moment. I don’t know how Grandfather did it.”

Maedhros squints at the rings still on Celebrimbor’s hand. Their glow is dimming now. “Speaking of Father,” he says cautiously, “I thought you were foreswearing our mistakes, not reliving them.”

Celebrimbor looks down at them ruefully. “I’m not a complete fool,” he says. “I knew something was off. These were just . . . a backup plan of sorts. Although I don’t think I’d admitted that even to myself.”

“Right,” Maedhros says, still more tired than anything. And who is he to lecture Celebrimbor? “While we’re on the topic of our family’s mistakes, I want you to have that one.” He nods to the Silmaril still on the floor. “It’s why I came, actually.”

“And I’m very glad you did,” Celebrimbor says. Maedhros tries not to dwell on the undeserved warmth the words summon. “But are your sure? The Oath won’t . . . “

“Won’t matter in a few months,” Maedhros says dismissively. “I can hold it for that long even if the Oath doesn’t recognize you as a legitimate holder of it.”

Celebrimbor freezes.

Maedhros holds up his ruined hand. “He was wrong about many things,” he says, “but not when he said I couldn’t hold a sword.”

Celebrimbor is by his side in an instant. “You need to see a healer for this. Elrond is coming for a visit soon, I’m sure he can help, and until then there are many talented healers in the city - “

“I did not come to impose upon your hospitality,” Maedhros interrupts.

Celebrimbor glares at him. “No, you came so you could die in peace. Surely you don’t still mean to do that after what we’ve just discovered.”

He ought to stay, Maedhros realizes. Celebrimbor never fought on the front lines of the war. Maedhros could help.

“I’m very tired,” he says quietly.

“Please, uncle,” Tyelpe begs.

Maedhros’s shoulders slump in defeat. “We keep my identity quiet for as long as we can.”

“If you like,” his nephew agrees instantly. “Although some of your old followers would be very glad to see you.”

Maedhros ignores this. “If my being here starts to cause trouble, I leave immediately.”

Celebrimbor begins to steer him towards the door, probably with the intention of getting him to a healer. “I’m sure we can resolve it peacefully.”

“And we are not bothering Elrond with my hand.”

“Whatever you say, Uncle Maedhros. Whatever you say.”

Maedhros doesn’t trust that tone, but he’s tired.

If this is the outcome, perhaps for just a moment it will be alright not to fight.

#alternate universe #canon divergence #maedhros #celebrimbor #sauron #maglor #character death #suicidal thoughts #fic #happy ending #hopeful ending at least

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feanor-no · 2 years ago

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While I agree that it wasn't the fault of just one person, that doesn't however mean that no one was at fault, or that they're all equally responsible.

What people keep confusing I think, is the situation in Valinor with our own mortal, modern standards. Elves in Valinor aren't supposed to die. If they die they can come back to life after a time. For that reason (and Tolkien's catholicism), marriages are supposed to be forever, no exceptions, no backsies. Elven pregnacies drain the parents, especially the mum, in spirit as well as in body. Feanor's mum, after giving birth to him, was exhausted (and suffering from some kind of elven postpartum likely). That wasn't why she was sent to Lorien at first though, no, if memory serves, mr Finwe was already planning for a big family and Miriel straight up told him she's not having anymore kids, she got it right the first time and now she's done, and then she is sent to Lorien to "heal". (Nowdays, most couples, when they reach an impasse like that would consider if the marriage is working for them or if a divorse would be preferable, but, infuriatingly, that's not an option here.)

Then Miriel dies, while still in Lorien (as in she was literally so tired that she laid down and her spirit left her body) and Finwe's grieved, and asks the Valar to bring her back. The Valar offer to reembody her but she refused, saying that all she wants is to rest, which is understandable, but it baffles Valar and Finwe alike (because they're idiots). Her spirit is still suffering from exhaustion, but instead of letting her use this time to properly heal, as she was meant to, before asking her to return right away, the Valar, on Finwe's behalf keep badgering her and summoning her spirit back to ask why she's being so stubborn and won't just return to her husband. They even have a great debate to figure out "what the hell is wrong with Miriel", where they discuss if she died because she is marred, or because her infant son was marred from the womb (those are the only two options apparently, and this debate in-universe is public, which means eveyone heard about the Valar's wisdom on the subject, and Feanor definitely read about it at some point).

Back on track, even in her time in Mandos, which should be a time of rest and healing for her, she still had to deal with Finwe's requests (keep in mind Finwe wasn't like "oh, wise and benevolent Valar, please return my love to me, I'm so lost without her" or anything remotely romantic liked that, his requests boiled down to "I want a big family just like my buddy Ingwe, but now my wife is in Mandos and all I have is this one (1) infant son and I have no one to make more babies with :(:(:( this is so unfair! Why do these things happen to ME?!?) and the Valar's inquiries (notice how nothing about this is about her, it's all framed like Finwe's tragedy, Finwe's loss, what Finwe wants, what Finwe feels, what the Valar think about it, what this means for their blessed realm, Miriel's health and needs are an afterthought and only discussed in terms of how it affects them, which I'm sure isn't intentional on Finwe's part or even the Valar's, but it would still leave a heavy impression on an already depressed Miriel I think).

She says she can't return because she's wary of life (and the prospect of returning to life for the sole purpose of bearing Finwe's many babies is, I imagine, less than appealing at this point). Then Finwe asks, if Miriel won't return to life, what does that mean for him and his dreams of a large family (nice, finwe, very nice). Then, Miriel is summoned back with an ultimatum that's basically "you can either return to life and get on with the baby making, the thing you explicitly said you didn't want to go through again and that was the thing that caused you to be wary of life in the first place, or Finwe will just take another wife. BUT you have to decide right the fuck now, mental health conditions aside, because this (your healing) is taking too long and it's really getting tedious. BUT keep in mind", said the Valar, "according to the rules set down by the all-wise Valar, no man will have more than one living wife, and that means that in order for Finwe to remarry, YOU must forfeit your rights to your husband (sure, whatever) which subsequently means you forfeit your right to live (ummmm,what?!?!?) and you can never EVER return to life, no matter what. You will stay in Mandos forever as a disembodied spirit while your son grows up without his mother, because bigamy is an abomination and so is divorce (nice, Tolkien, very nice). But", the Valar continued, "don't worry, at least Finwe will have his big family with a proper, not selfish wife, in fact we already have a volunteer! Your good friend Indis, remember her? Turns out she always had a thing for your husband and they got cozy with each other since you so selfishly died. We already told them what it means for your spirit if they decide to get married, that bit about you being doomed to remain dead in the Halls forever and never to return, no even if you DO heal eventually, and they both readily agreed! How nice is that?! They didn't even waste any of our time to decide, unlike some people...What a great friend this Indis is, to selflessly put herself forward to help out your dear husband that you abandoned cruelly and without reason. Her children will certainly be blessed and not marred at all, unlike some people! What a great way to solve this conundrum, how fortunate we are that Indis was here and jumped at the opportunity to marry your husband, at only the very small cost of YOUR ETERNAL LIFE! So glad we solved this! We are indeed very wise", the wise Valar concluded and congratulated themselves, happy to have finally found a solution that works for everyone.

Well, almost everyone.

Now, remember that part where I said that all of that nonsense is public record, straight from the mouths of the gods themselves, and suddenly Feanor's dislike of Indis, his mistrust of the Valar, his desperate need for his father love and approval and his general paranoia and constant fear of being easily replaced start to make a lot more sense.

All of that was to say that Feanor's parents didn't get just get divorced and the problem child unfairly blamed it on the "other woman" and made her life hell when she was honestly just trying her best. This isn't that story. Nor did Feanor's mum just dropped dead one day and only afterwards did his dad found love again and decided to move on and remarry, only for Feanor to throw a tantrum because he was a spoiled, unreasonable child. No, Feanor's mum explicitly had to die so that Feanor's dad could be permitted to remarry. And everyone involved agreed that that was a reasonable sacrifice. That's horrible, and everyone involved in this decision is horrible, that includes Indis.

The fact that Indis supposedly had been Miriel's friend just makes it so much worse, not better. It makes it a horrific betrayal. If she was just a stranger who had no reason to care about Miriel or Feanor, that's one thing, but if she was actually her "friend", then she's just a terrible person who was more than happy to sacrifice her "friend" in order to get what she wanted. (I'm sure that's not how Tolkien intended it but that's how I read it). And make no mistake, they did sacrifice her. Death for them isn't supposed to be permanent. It's more like a time out. Mandos is called the Halls of Waiting for that reason. Indis, as well as Finwe knew full well what this would mean for Miriel and decided to go for it anyway.

This isn't death like we think of it, we don't have an equivalent for it. The closest I could come up with would be if a woman was very ill and hospitalised after a difficult birth, her doctors were certain that she could actually make a full recovery with enough time, but her husband decided (after like, a month) that her healing was taking too long and he can't be arsed to wait for her but his religion forbids divorce so he just decides to euthanize her and be done with it, in order to be able to marry someone else instead and get on with his life. Someone, who incidentally happens to be his wife's "dear friend" who saw no problem with this arrangement whatsoever, and happily jumped at the opportunity to bury her "friend" because it meant that she could finally get the guy she was crushing on. I don't know how would anyone defend that.

(That's why I never headcanon them as friends, that would make Indis too horrible of a person for me. At least Finwe, as awful as he was, had the excuse of not being in his right mind due to grief (and it does seem like he regretted it later on, which too little, too late, but good for him I guess), the Valar have the somewhat flimsy excuse of not understanding anything at all ever, but what's Indis excuse here exactly? "Sucks for Miriel ig, but I got mine"?)

I don't think Indis was Evil Incarnate, I do however think she was an extremely selfish, self-centred person and an opportunist (just like Finwe, no wonder they hit it off). Curiously, I don't think Indis needs defending as 99,9% of portrayals I've seen of her are all pretty much the same. Long-suffering, ever-patient, endlessly kind stepmum who has never done anything wrong, doen't have one unkind thought and has only ever tried her best but her vicious, evil stepson dislikes her for existing and makes her life hell, even though she loves him dearly and would love to be a mother to him, if he would just give her a chance.... I'm not saying that that portrayal is necessarily bad, depends on the kind of story you want to tell I suppose, I'm saying that that's pretty much the only interpretation I see of Indis, with some variations. Sometimes she's incredibly wise, sometimes a bit naive, but it's always the same perfect, understanding and loving stepmum who stepped up and is now suffering the unjust scorn of her wicked stepson in silence but with endless patience always. *yawn*

(Sidenote: If you or anyone have come across other portayals that I clearly haven't, please send me links if it's not too much trouble, especially if it's angsty. I'd love to read them because like I said, nearly all the portrayals of Indis I've personally come across are pretty much variations of the same thing and it gets tedious after a while).

If anything, Finwe gets a much more just treatment in the fandom, becase people aren't afraid to point out what a selfish prick he was and how he screwed up, but for some reason, Indis doesn't get anywhere near the amount of scrutiny she should for her actions. Maybe because we know nothing about her, and Tolkien's works aren't exactly filled with developed female characters, so maybe people don't want to vilify the few named female characters we do have. I understand that, but does that mean we have to put every single female character on a pedestal, never allowing them their faults? This isn't even a "let women be evil" thing, because she doesn't have to be evil and we have no reason to think that she was, but her actions do portray a very selfish person who doesn't care about how her actions might affect others as long as she gets what she wants (just like Finwe! Match made in Heaven!) But being selfish isn't the same as being evil.

Yeah, people will blame female characters for merely existing because of misogyny, but then others will go all reactionary and insist that no female character can ever be at fault ever, they all have to be perfect angels all the time, which is just misogyny with a twist. Yeah Indis isn't described as a wicked stepmum, but she isn't described as a good person either. Because she isn't described at all, we only know of (some) of her actions and those don't exactly make her look very good, so why not acknowledge that? She never explicitly said that she hoped for Miriel to die/stay dead in order to marry her husband or that she was happy about this turn of events but.....did she really have to? The fact that she knew that's what would happen and saw no issue with that and happily agreed is bad enough, and it makes her complicit in Miriel death, same as Finwe.

Overall, I don't think one portrayal is necessarily better or more accurate than the other, because again, we know practically nothing about Indis other than her part in Finwe's life, so she can be a blank canvas for the fandom to paint her as they will, and we totally should, that's what fandoms are for, I'm just saying that no interpretation is inherently wrong, and people can like or dislike a character for a variety of reasons, but when it comes to a character's actions in canon, those are meant to tell us things about that character as well as drive the story forward, and personally, I don't think her actions paint her in a very good light. Although she doesn't have the greatest blame here (for me that would be the Valar who made up those stupid one-marriage-per-elf rules in the first place, followed by Finwe who was being incredibly selfish and bitter and it cost Miriel her life and Feanor his mother), she does share part of the blame, and I don't see why she should get a pass when everyone else involved in this mess is rightly criticised. We even criticise Feanor who was a child at the time, but Indis is off-limits for some reason?

I agree that there was no "right" answer (well, apart from a divorce, that would pretty much have solved the whole mess, but the Valar aren't ready for that conversation) but there were plently of "wrong" answers, and in the end that's what everyone chose.

Now, "Was Miriel selfish for refusing to return to Tirion and giving up her life in spite of her husband and child?"

Miriel was literally a spirit who couldn't hold on to life because of her wariness and exhaustion after childbirth and coming back to life would mean more suffering for her. No, I don't think making a choice for your own health is selfish, and I don't think a depressed person could actually make a choice of that magnitude when they are at their lowest, and she was repeatedly asked to when everyone involved knew very well she wasn't in a good place mentally. And on top of that, they made it very clear that it wasn't even about her, rather it was about how her death would inconvenience Finwe because it would be an obstacle to his desire for a large family (a desire she didn't share) and if she continues to be difficult, well, she can easily be replaced. Of course she refused to return, why the hell would she?

(the part about her saying she wasn't ever going to be able to return I take with a massive grain of salt because 1. anyone who has ever experienced depression knows that it messes with your head in a way that you can't even conceive of things ever getting better, you're just stuck in a loop of misery and doubt and unable to even picture a future where you're doing ok (and everyone who has ever lived with depression will also tell you that depression lies to you, things can and will get better, you just have to survive the hard bit first) and 2. she did return to life eventually, after Finwe's death. She wasn't ready to return to live in Tirion so she went to Vaire's halls, but she did come back, proving that she could, and would have, if she was given enough time.

It was clearly stated that she needed time to heal, and she wasn't afforded that. The Valar were in charge of her healing, and not only did they fail her spectacularly, but they also kept interrupting her rest in Mandos to ask her why she was being so stubborn essentially, and why can't she just get well already, framing her illness as being her fault, and her struggle to heal on Finwe's time as a choice she was making out of spite. The Valar would be the worst therapists ever.

"Was Finwe selfish for wanting to remarry against the customs of the Eldar?"

Finwe wasn't selfish for going against the customs of the Eldar, he was selfish for making a decision that would benefit him knowing full well that it would cost his wife her life and his son his mother. He thought only of what he wanted, and didn't care that the two people closest to him would suffer for it. That's the definition of selfish. He could wait for Miriel to return, he could choose not to remarry at all, he could respond to the Valar's judgement with "WTF!!! I said I wanted more kids, not that I wanted my wife to die! What kind of batshit suggestion is that?!?", or he could at the very least wait to remarry (and put the nail on Miriel's coffin) until his son was fully grown, but he did none of those things, because he wanted his big family, and he wanted it now (even though they're all immortal and have nothing but time) and he knew Miriel wouldn't want to have any more kids even if she did return, so he chose what was most convenient for him, regardless of who it would hurt.

"Was Indis selfish for loving her friend’s husband and then marrying him after Miriel’s death?"

It wasn't that she married him after her friends death, it was that she knew full well her marriage would result in her "friends" death, and was perfectly fine with it. Miriel at the time wasn't dead-dead, it was only after they agreed to marry that Miriel's death became permanent and irreversible, as a direct consequence of that decision. ("In Indis was proved true indeed the saying that ‘the loss of one may be the gain of another" - from Morgoth's Ring I believe) Was Indis selfish for that. Absolutely. I don't know why that's a controversial thing to say.

Also, "She stayed away in general and never pushed herself on him and they were deeply in love at the time they married." That's fanon, while we do know that it was said that she loved him "from afar", it's also said that she maintained hope and had refused to marry anyone else even before Miriel's "death" because because she only wanted him. There are a couple of ways to interpret that, some more innocent than others. I also doubt they were "deeply in love" as they basically run into each other, she randomly started singing, he "saw in her eyes" in that moment that she loved him, they decide to get married then and there, got permission from Ingwe and went straight to petition the Valar for remarriage. Now unless significant amount of time passed between those events, I doubt they even had a chance to get to know each other properly let alone be deeply in love. Indis didn't even live in Tirion, she lived with her kin with the rest of the Vanyar, so they wouldn't have had much opportunity or reason to interact before that apart from official visits maybe. And granted, they weren't allowed to marry for 12 (I think?) years after the judgement, but that was because the Valar said so, not by their choice.

"Was Feanor selfish for refusing to accept his father’s remarriage and Indis’ place as queen of the Noldor?"

Umm, no? Not at all? Because his father's remarriage is literally the reason his mother is dead? Those two things are very much connected in a cause-and-effect kind of way and Indis is not an innocent bystander but very much complicit in his mother's death? I'd say he's allowed to be as bitter as he wants about it, if anything he's not bitter enough. "but his disapproval and even hurt feelings don’t get to dictate whether his father gets to pursue a romantic relationship or not." Well, not when you put it like that, except it wasn't like that. His disapproval and hurt feelings were over not wanting his mother to be dead and replaced with a more agreeable version, and whether his father gets to pursue a romantic relationship or not is directly linked to whether his mother gets to be alive or not. So in that sense, I'd say, yeah, his hurt feelings should dictate his father's romantic decisions actually, when it's his own mother's eternal life that is at stake. Not wanting your mother to be dead because of someone else's choices is not selfish. Feeling bitterness towards the people who have actively played a role in your mother's unnatural death isn't unreasonable.

I do think emotions were running high (especially on Finwe's part, he didn't understand Miriel's refusal to return and he was confused and angry about it) and the whole thing was made worse by the Valar's involvement (as most things tend to), due to their inability to undestand 1) the Children and 2) those pesky, confusing emotions. In the end everyone messed up, except for Miriel (no, I don't think she was selfish or stubborn, I think she was ill and needed healing, time, compassion and support, and got none of this things) and Feanor, who was just a kid at the time (age varies depending on what you take as canon). it's not surprising to me that Feanor would not have a warm relationship with his stepmum or siblings and as far as I know, in canon, he never mistreated them (contrary to common belief), he just...wasn't close to them and moved out of the house as soon as he could, it was much, much later AND with decades of Melkor's influence that they started to actively antagonise each other. Maybe he could have tried harder to develop a relationship with them, but I don't see why he would? And since he couldn't get along with them, he did the next best thing and removed himself from the situation, which displays far more maturity from him that his father and Indis ever did.

Anyways, I just realised I wrote a whole ass essay, so sorry about the long rant, I do get carried away sometimes :) It's just that I rarely get to talk about Indis specifically and as you can see, I have a lot of thoughts. Please don't feel the need to respond or anything if this is too much, I'm just happy I managed to actually put my thoughts in order here.

#tolkien #silmarillion #finwë #indis #feanor #valar #the valar #the statute of finwe and miriel

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