#tlok criticism

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i swear to god, just like how spop seems to have brainwashed its fans into completely forgetting about catra's crimes, it feels like tlok has done the same to its fandom.

because tell me why people still think bolin is a cute innocent little baby when he sexually harrassed his coworker, left his brother to be unfairly imprisoned so that he could pursue an acting career, and literally worked with a fascist dictator out of his own freewill?

[hikaaa-bi]

ranking TLOK relationships bc i'm bored.

mako x asami (masami?? idk what the ship name is): bad but not horrible. they were a very generic vanilla couple who immediately broke up because of korra. they had no chemistry whatsoever and mako cheating on asami got rid of any potential that was there.

makorra: ugh. i don't like this ship. despite all of mako's flaws, i think korra was the toxic one in this relationship. she constantly kept blowing up at mako when he was just trying to help and support her. she takes out all her frustrations on him, barges into his office and destroys it bc he was doing his job. smh mako deserved better. (i know he was kind of an asshole too but at least he got called out for it; also I'm not a korra hater, i just don't like her in s2)

bopal: i hate bolin okay. he's not interesting, he's not funny and his sexual harrasment towards ginger is played for laughs. i can't ship this character with anyone because he keeps making mistakes and never gets called out for it. besides, even if he wasn't such an ass, bopal was a boring ship anyway. it had no substance to it, it's just "boy meets girl and they fall in love". opal isn't a very interesting character by herself either.

zhurrick: i regret to admit that i found this ship cute at first. but looking back, varrick treated zhu li like shit and never gets a proper redemption. he just delivers a half-assed apology and proposes to her, and she says yes. yay, problem solved! zhu li deserves better.

eska x bolin: walking red flag. this was another case of the show using a serious issue as a joke. eska is actively abusive and possessive towards bolin and it's just treated as "haha crazy girlfriend". bolin gets reprimanded for not breaking up with her sooner? as much as i dislike bolin, this isn't right either. men being abused is a very real thing, and should be taken seriously. it's not funny and it's not pathetic.

jinora x kai: it's alright. not bad, though we don't get to see enough of them. but from what we see, they seem to care about each other and work well as a couple.

korrasami: lots of potential but it was underwhelming. i get that it was restricted, so i can't blame the writers here. they did do a good job of writing a believable friendship between korra and asami, so it's not much of a stretch to imagine them dating.

[beifong-brainrot]

Im sick and delirious with fever so i unleash these upon ye

[rightwheretheyleftme]

TLOK and the design of older women

Scrolling through the TLOK tag, I see so many posts saying “Thanks to The Legend of Korra, now I’m attracted to older women” and then they attach pictures of Lin, Suyin and Kya. Those posts always get a good chuckle out of me, but I’ve decided to be a party popper and analyze, why are the elderly women of TLOK so attractive?

And the answer is because they aren’t drawn like actual women in their 50s. They are drawn like 30 year old women and then they add the grey hair to convey that they are old. Let’s see the evidence:

Here is Tenzin, he is 51 years old in the 1st season. This is how he looks:

He has bags under his eyes, wrinkles, messy facial hair, and crow’s feet. These are all realistic signs of aging that we normally see in men above 50.

Now let’s see Lin Beifong. She is 50 years old.

Her face is completely smooth. There are no wrinkles, smile lines, or any signs of aging besides her gray hair.

And those are just the examples that I used to prove my point. This disparity applies to all of the middle aged men and women in this show. Let’s keep going:

Kya and Bumi are both in their mid-late 50s. Bumi has wrinkles, under eye bags, and forehead creases. Kya has 0 physical signs of aging besides her hair.

Here are some more examples:

Again, I’m sorry to be a complete party popper, but the reason why everyone is so attracted to the elderly women of Korra is because these are not elderly women- they are 30 year olds with grey hair. Only men are allowed to age naturally in this show.

[longing-for-rain]

There seems to be this take that it’s somehow “devaluing” healing and by extension women’s contributions by criticizing Katara ending up as a healer rather than a warrior in legacy, but this really misses the mark. The point is that from the beginning, Katara explicitly wanted to use her bending to fight. She never refers to herself as a healer; she says that she has healing abilities. It is a skill to her, not a trait she wishes to define herself by.

But since we’re on the subject of devaluing the practice of healing, I’d like to pose a question I haven’t seen anyone ask before:

Why did Aang never learn healing?

It’s a valuable skill and one he could have really used. Other benders such as Zuko passed on their own skills like lightning redirection to Aang to aid him. Why not healing? Maybe it’s because he’s the Avatar and so narratively he doesn’t need—

Oh. Interesting…

It’s almost like the narrative of the show itself is presenting healing as a woman thing that isn’t important enough for men to value learning.

[starlight-bread-blog]

[fossilizedhysterics]

guess who finished tlok tonight and immediately had this come to him in a vision!!!!

[sjbattleangel]

If people talked about ATLA the way they talk about Steven Universe, Star Vs. TLOK and She-Ra.

"So Aang just ran away and froze himself at the bottom of the ocean, leaving innocent people to be conquered by the Fire Nation? What a selfish coward! He has blood on hands!"

"Ugh! The stupid chauvinistic crap Sokka says! The creators are misogynists!."

"Man, Katara is such a Mary Sue! The way she grew into a waterbender was so unrealistic. Bad writing!"

"Toph is blind? But how can we tell? A blind person can never do THAT! Nope, sorry. Not good enough. Doesn't count as real representation."

"Zuko is an irredeemable, imperialist brat, too easily forgiven. He doesn't deserve a redemption arc. He should've been killed at the beginning. The creators clearly have a thing for "Draco In Leather Pants".

"The King of Omashu, Imprisoned, Jet, The Deserter, The Cave Of Two Lovers, Avatar Day, The Tales Of Ba Singh Se, ect. Pointless filler episodes with nothing to add. More examples of sunk-cost fallacy."

"Azula is a powerful young woman who slowly goes insane because Mommy and Daddy didn't love her enough? The creators hate women and want them back in the kitchens!"

"So we're shown that there're innocent people in the Fire Nation who don't support the war yet the Fire Nation are still the bad guys? Trying to earn woke brownie points much?

"Aang doesn't kill the Firelord but drains him of all his powers, ultimately sparing him!?! THE CREATORS ARE FASCIST SYMPATHIZERS!! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!"

[allgremlinart]

honestly I love Toph in tlok but my defense of her characterization would come off as Toph slander I think. Like, they didnt write her as a cop because she's the rich elite and a little close-minded and stubborn and emotionally crippled by her ego and cares more about proving herself in every way possible than facilitating any societal change, they made her a cop cus it was 2012 and they were white liberals and its all they could think of I guess BUT. It fits.

[rifari2037]

6. Do you consider the comics/LoK canon?

I prefer to pretend that comics and TLOK aren't canon.

ATLA is enough for me, even though the love story isn't good written. It's weird and rushed except for Sokka and Suki. I'm a Zutara shipper, but I wouldn't expect them to end up together either if the better story is ended with friendship.

Why I don't consider comics as canon?

I probably can't give to much criticism because I don't read the comics yet and I'm not interested to do so because I've read many criticisms about it before, this is one of them that I found recently.

There are other criticisms about it, most of them about the plot and how is Katara's role reduce, from Katara we all know to not more than Avatar's girlfriend. Those makes me less interested, though.

Plus, I probably can't stand reading Aang and Katara calling each other 'Sweetie' all the time. It wasn't romantic but cheesy to me.

Why I don't consider TLOK as canon?

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed TLOK since Bolin exist, but I don't think it's as well written as ATLA. The conflicts, the arcs, the complexity. I have a lot of thoughts on some aspects that make TLOK no more special than ATLA, but I will only explain the most disappointing for me - and a lot of fans - here, which is how Katara is written.

Bryke always tells fans that Kat/Ang are perfect pairing. Since they became canon in ATLA, Bryke has many chances in TLOK to convince fans (especially Zutara stand) of what Bryke said.

But what we get are – Katara's role simply as the wife and mother of the Avatar's children. Like, having 3 kids doesn't make them perfect couple. And if Katara's role replaced by another character, would the main story change? No, not at all.

Zuko still the one who knew Aang more than anyone else, not Katara.

It doesn't matter if Katara only end up being a healer in her old age even though she wanted to fight when she was young. I mean, Toph also lives in the swamp and Zuko chooses to retire as Fire Lord.

But where was she when she was young? Where was she when Sokka was a leader, Toph was a police chief, Zuko was a Fire Lord, and Aang was the avatar? Where is her statue, while even cabbage man has it?

Not only that, Bryke also thought it's a brilliant idea to make Aang as a bad father. Unbelievable!

Bryke ignores all the opportunities of Zutara. But seeing how Bryke's favourite pairing is written, it's better that Zutara don't end up together. I'm afraid Bryke would destroy Zutara more than Kat/Ang.

[lesviolyn]

unpopular opinion

tlok ending >>>> atla ending

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.

grace monroe (infinity train) • black american

connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american

katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk

wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american

suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese

korra (the legend of korra) • inuk

jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)

lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino

azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese

ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian

luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american

(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Legend of Korra is so tough when you’re sapphic & a Katara stan. Korrasami…but Katara character assassination…but Korrasami…

[beifong-brainrot]

Considering what most tlok fans vs tlok haters feel about the setting of tlok, what are your personal opinions regarding the setting of Korra? Because at first I thought it felt jarring with the way it felt more “Americanized” mainly because of how Republic City appeared, but then some said it does resemble (maybe?) east asian cities like Hong Kong for instance. But then I’ve also heard about the reason why it felt jarring to begin with was more so the idea it poses in terms of the Industrial Revolution and it’s relations to imperialism (post below):

https://medium.com/@nettlefish/the-inescapable-whiteness-of-avatar-the-legend-of-korra-and-its-uncomfortable-implications-debc76bbf7f

Honestly, this is a subject I've tried to not speak of directly, being neither American, nor a member of the nationalities primarily depicted in Avatar. So take my response with a heaping portion of salt, ok?

I personally have a love/hate relationship with Republic City. I like the idea of an are where the four nations intermingle, prompting progress and growth. I also have talked at length about how much I hate the fact that the plot seems to revolve around this shitty poorly utilised oriental reskin of New York.

As for the question of whether RC is 'orientalised Western cities' or if it was actually based on actual East Asian cities, I think it's a bit of both. Mind you, I only have access to old photos and drawings, so my comparisons won't be ideal, but it seems the general buildings of the 'bulk' of Republic City do resemble cities like Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo at the time.

It does however seem that the named buildings and areas, eg. places with actual importance seem to be be mainly inspired by actual western buildings.

Of course, there is also the issue that a lot of the buildings of major Eastern cities at the time looked the way they did due to western interference, and so we are posed with the question if Republic City, a city in a world where there are close to no European influences would even look like said cities.

But relying on these aspects of history leads us to irreversably tying westernisation to progress, which I cannot even begin to describe as a problematic and untrue idea. This further muddles the concept of tlok's industrial revolution, as it follows a very western pattern, eg. the devlopment of for example electrical power, telephones and telegraphs, and train lines which is what enabled another wave of colonialism. Trying to consider what would happen in a world where that never happened would be fascinating, and probably liberating for many cultures.

For example, would the world of Avatar even have a need for electricity in a world where Spirits and people who can control the elements with their minds exist?

I admit, it would probably be difficult to envision a modernised world without western/european influences off the cuff, but it is possible. It would take a lot of research and imagination, but it is possible. It would require isolating western influences and trying to establish new patterns in how the world could evolve without white ppl sticking their noses into everything. (I actually have personally been trying to 'reengineer' Republic City fashion bacause I want to redesign the Krew so I'm kinda in the depths of research hell on this lol. The things I do cause I miss sewing apprenticeship...)

The author of the article says that tlok is steampunk, which is an easy mistake to make, one I have made in the past. That still isn't the best choice for a post atla world, in my opinion. I believe tlok is actually more diesepunk. However, I'd say that if tlok wanted to cling to Avatar's clear wuxia inspirations, it should've opted for something like silkpunk, which, in simple terms, melds East Asian aesthetics, history and philosphies with fantastical technology. I say insimple terms because there is a lot more to silkpunk than just that, and not every "Asian scifi" is silkpunk, but if a creator were to attempt to do something of the sort, silkpunk would be a good jumping off point.

Here are some sources I personally used when researching the genre.

Ken Liu, the Author who coined the term Silkpunk explains the term

Interview with Ken Liu

Interview with silkpunk artist, James Ng

Now, when it comes to the sociopolitical narratives around imperialism and colonisation in tlok, I can only comment so much. But I agree with the author of the article that the Fire Nation imperialism and its results should've been explored more. And it would be SO easy. For example, in the comics we see a wealth disparity in between Fire Nation citizens and Earth Kingdom citizens of the area that would later become the Republic.

How would this develop over time? If we look at irl examples, we could see this gap become even wider due to lack of affirmative action. And, lo and behold, don't we already have an incredibly wealthy family canonically descended from Fire Nation settlers. Hiroshi may have described himself as just a humble shoe shiner, but it would be so easy to rework his backstory into being a nepo baby feeding off colonialism. Driving that point further, how would Mako and Bolin be treated as children of q mixed union? Would they be treated differently based on their bending abilities, or their appearance?

This could be easily incorporated into the characters' storylines and characterisation and would probably lead to some interesting dynamics, especially from the perspective of Korra, an outsider.

But the silence on the potential issues of discrimination in an america based city created off colonialism and imperialism is a symptom of another point. That Republic City is not only 'oriental America', it's also idealised 'oriental America.'

A lot of tlok feels like a very odd American centric fanfiction of history, with the America stand in always shoehorned in as important. Despite president Raiko being presented as an all around dickwad, Republic City itself is posed as a bastion of impartial fairness and as having a say in solving international conflicts. We're shown and told that extreme poverty exists in Republic City but we're never told why, we simply have to accept it as a fact of life, why don't we all go look at the cool rich ppl, look at Asami and her big airship, don't think too hard about Mako and Bolin's past.

The characters in charge of most of Republic City's important militias are nepo babies to soem extent, and skate by on their likeablity. Iroh II was cool for the ending of B2 and then got relegated to Raiko's spineless lackey. Lin is, in my probably very controversial opinion, a really bad chief of police in the most stereotypically American way possible.

I've talked ay length at how frustrating it is that we keep coming back to Republic City even when the actual plot is going on somewhere else. B2 and B4 have this problem in particular.

Instead of showing us primarily the perspectives of actually dealing with Kuvira or Unalaq's agression, throughout most of the seasons, the Krew are sorta chilling in Republic City talking how much it sucks that war crimes are happening somewhere else. It's giving American self centeredness to the max. But I think I've already screamed into the void about this a lot.

I will, however, say that the author of the article you sent me makes some crucial mistakes relating to the actual plot and scenes of tlok, which I wouldn't hold against her if it weren't the fact that she uses them to back her points. Points which are, mind you, mostly valid. But the author seems to misremember or falsely represent facts in the show to bolster these points, which is never a good look, even if you are making good points. For example, claiming benders being the only ones with political power in RC, as well as saying that the Council was made of benders, which is false. As is accentuating Korra's role as a Southern Water Tribe princess, whose father is somehow chief, despite also being the shamefully exiled brother of the Northern Water Tribe chief to bolster her opinion on tlok's theme on focusing on those in power. Korra is already the Avatar, a divine vessel. And her father being chief happened later in the show, after Unlaq was revealed to be a little shit. It is ultimately inconsequential to Korra's character, and makes her no more a princess than Katara was.

I can see what the author is trying to do and I think she makes good points, but it feels like she either didn't watch tlok very carefully, or is either intentionally or subconsciously skewing facts to fit her arguments. Making mistakes and oversights like this sours the whole text and is probably the reason I feel like agenda came first in this article. Be it a good agenda, it still leads to certain parts of the article feeling disingenuous to a cerain degree.

However, I do still see a lot of merit in the articke and agree with a lot of its points. I wish Republic City and tlok as a whole had delivered on the amazing concepts it offered, but due to a probable myriad of reasons, tlok will always feel slightly lacklustre to me.

[rightwheretheyleftme]

I’m watching Korra book 2 and I have so many emotions about Aang’s neglect of his kids

After watching ATLA earlier this year, I started following a bunch of fan accounts and saw the same discourse regurgitated over and over again; One of the main points of discourse is whether Aang was bad father.

The discussions that I saw would always play out the same way. Aang’s detractors would say: “Aang didn’t take 2/3 of his kids on vacations. That’s neglect” and Aang’s defenders would reply “Aang is not a bad father! The places that he took Tenzin to were built for airbenders so Kya and Bumi wouldn’t have anything to do there!” And you know what? When I was reading those arguments, I thought that both sides had valid points and that this was a complex discussion.

Oh boy.

Now that I’m watching the episode, I realized that the people in this fandom are lying through their teeth. Aang only taking 1 out of his 3 kids on vacations is true, but the claim that that happened because Aang only visited places made for airbenders is completely false. Let’s recap the places that Aang and Tenzin went to:

- Kyoshi Island; to ride the elephant koi

- Ember Island; to build sandcastles on the beach

Now explain to me, why on earth does the majority of the fandom say that Aang went to airbender-only places? Kyoshi and Ember islands have 0 historical significance to the airbenders. These are just fun vacation spots, we know this because we saw the Gaang vacation at these places multiple times.

Moreover, according to Bumi, Aang was busy due to his job as the Avatar but he made time for Tenzin, only Tenzin. Kya agrees with this.

I’m so disgusted by this information. There is no way that a grown man in his 40s wouldn’t realize that taking only 1 of your kids on fun vacations and leaving the others behind is hurtful, the only possible conclusion that you can reach here is that Aang was intentionally trying to hurt his kids’ feelings.

And that breaks my heart.

This is not the Aang that I know and love. Aang is a fun, caring, accepting, and loving person. The behavior that I’ve described above is not only emotional neglect, it borders on abuse.

At first, I thought that maybe this storyline was meant to deconstrue the “The hero can do no wrong” cliché. Except that it ends with Kya and Bumi looking at a family picture and reminiscing about how happy they were. So no, there is no deconstruction; Aang is portrayed as a flawed but otherwise good father. Apparently, not loving 2/3 of your children enough to want to spend leisure time with them is a common flaw and not parental neglect, according to TLOK.

I feel so betrayed not only by the writers and the story that I love, but also by the fandom who silences victims of parental abuse when they are rightfully pissed off by Aang’s actions. I never wanted for Aang to be a neglectful father, but he is. Harassing people who are mad about his actions and calling them bitter Zutaras is a disgusting way to try to silence conversations about parental abuse.

Side note: Where tf was Katara while this was happening? Did she not take offense that her husband was neglecting 2/3 of her kids? Why didn’t Aang respect Katara enough to not play favorites with the kids she gave him?

[longing-for-rain]

ok, i'm curious. if katara had ended up with zuko and became fire lady, how do you think that would have changed her role/character in lok?

a lot of people seem to disagree that becoming fire lady would have been a service to her character.

That’s really up for interpretation since canon doesn’t really establish what exactly the political role of the Fire Lady is. I’m not even sure if it’s a canon title; at least in the past, it was a title that fans made up.

However, I imagine in that role, Katara would be very politically active. I’m not even sure she’d necessarily call herself Fire Lady; I could see her liking that, or maybe a different title to distinguish herself.

The biggest change would be her role in Fire Nation politics specifically. I believe Katara would have a strong desire for world politics, but being a head of state in the Fire Nation would give her an interesting angle to work from. She would have influence over the Fire Nation’s assets and how to use them. She would be instrumental in transitioning them from wartime to peacetime economy, and ensuring that the other nations are compensated for the crimes of Ozai’s regime.

I think she and Zuko would also be very supportive of each other personally (obviously) when it comes to politics. Zuko has immense respect for Katara and would trust her judgement. It would also be so much easier on them both to have that understanding when dealing with complex political issues together. It broke my heart to see how stressed, isolated, and alone Zuko was in The Promise with nobody to confide in and support him in his struggle to turn his nation around. Similarly, it broke my heart to see how loneliness and isolation also seems to be a theme for Katara post-canon.

So yeah! I think there is a lot of potential there, which is why fans like to explore this idea for Katara. It’s about emphasizing her political voice, giving her a way to continue her fight for justice, and giving her someone who respects her opinions and doesn’t leave her feeling abandoned. It’s a direct response to how she was treated in TLOK and it’s beautiful.