#tim drake crit

[kevin-day-is-bi]

Thinking about how connected Jason and Tim are. You can't buy a copy of Death in the Family without it being paired with A Lonely Place of Dying. Tim's first appearance is trying to fix things after Jason died. Jason's first appearance as coming back from the dead is holding Tim at knifepoint. They're the only two of the bats to wear red. Kon mentions that Tim is wearing a uniform similar to Jason. Every storyline that Tim is in from 1989-2005 mentions Jason somewhere. Jason's biggest source of rage with Bruce is that he let Tim become Robin. Both Tim and Jason idolized Dick as Robin. The Robin that broke Bruce and the Robin who had to put him back together.

[theresamouseinmyhouse]

tbh i do get a little bothered by the notion that tim took the first shot he had to drop out of school because he hated school and didnt wanna do it and all of that bc i feel like it ignores the probably very important context that he dropped out after his dad (as well as steph-or at least, he was led to believe, in the same week) died, also he was in a school shooting. He did attempt to go to a school in bludhaven but the kids there were so wildly insensitive about the shooting that tim dropped out under the pretense of his "uncle" homeschooling him. In his oyl era, he /did/ go back to school, and it provided him some form of normalcy. Tim was a normal kid, he wasnt crazy about school but he still went to school and it helped him feel like a normal kid, something he desperately clung to. He only dropped out again to do his Brucequest, in an era where he was notably Not Doing Well (which. Yeah. he wasnt doing well bc he was like 17 and almost everyone in his support system was dead, he recently had hits put out on him, got blown up, and backstabbed by his not-dead-ex, he couldnt support his theory that bruce was alive and was extremely stressed about that, and he didnt know wtf he was doing. I love him btw.) Basically tim dropping out of school was a signifier that he wasnt doing well and he was giving up on the normality that he tried to cling to and im a bit of a nitpicky person who gets irked by minor things

[beeceit]

the more I read and reread the comics the more I realize that a lot of the fanon criticizers are just as bad as the fanon only folks, are we even reading the same books y'all are yelling at them to read????

not talking about people who are chill about criticizing fanon and avoiding what isn't their taste, talking about the ones who bash people and act like they're the only ones who understand canon while also having their own interpretation that's not only inaccurate but meanspirited

like tumblr specifically has a problem with overcorrecting, both with fandom and real life discourse, I know that

but goodness y'all both need to read lonely place of dying because that did NOT go down the way some of y'all are saying it did

[thenixkat]

why the fuck would you help Jason Todd's homicidal ass escape from prison?

ok so the people that Jason murders after this is on Tim's head yeah totally instead of letting Jason maybe rehabilitate in prison, set him a known murderer free to have another chance. Instead of letting him do time for his crimes, b/c he's a superhero at the end of the day and yall give special treatment to yer own

Mannnn fuck the Batfam heroes

[genrebender]

Some Canonically Queer Characters:

Asexuals and/or Aromatic:

-Jon Sims - asexual biromantic (The Magnus Archives)

-Jay - aromatic & asexual (Supernatural Academy -in show not sure about books)

-Alastor - aroace (Hazbin Hotel)

-Caduseus Clay - aroace (Critical Role: Campaign two the Mighty Nein)

-Lilith Clawthorne - aroace (The Owl House)

-Artemis/Diana aroace (PJO)

-Hestia aroace (PJO)

-Athena/Minerva alloromantic & asexual (PJO)

-Reyna Ramírez-Arellano alloromatic & asexual (PJO)

Bisexual:

-Luz Noceda (The Owl House)

-Korra (The Legend of Korra)

-Asami Sato (The Legend of Korra)

-Millie (Helluva Boss)

-Moxxie (Helluva Boss)

-Loki (Marvel Comics and MCU)

-Loki (PJO/Magnus Chase books/Riordianverse)

-Tony Stark (Marvel Comics only)

-Logan/Wolverine (Comics non 161 universe)

-Jesper Fahey (Grishaverse/Six of Crows)

-Nina Zenik (Grishaverse/Six of Crows)

-Tommy Shepherd (Marvel Comics)

-David Alleyne (Marvel Comics)

-Hercules (Marvel Comics)

-Marvel Boy (Marvel Comics)

-Yizhi (Iron Widow)

-Shimin (Iron Widow)

-Zetain (Iron Widow)

-Mystique (Marvel Comics)

-Kate “Kitty” Pride (Marvel Comics)

-Harley Quinn (DC)

-Poison Ivy (DC)

-Catwoman (DC)

-Joker (DC)

-Tim Drake (DC)

-Wonder Woman (DC)

-Yuuri Katsuki (Yuri!!! On Ice)

-Bow (She-Ra and the Princesses of Power)

-Glimmer (She-Ra)

-Mermista (She-Ra)

-Sea Hawk (She-Ra)

-Lonnie (She-Ra)

-Rogelio (She-Ra)

-Kyle (She-Ra)

-Entrapta (She-Ra)

-Tim Stoker (TMA)

-Georgie Barker (TMA)

-Vax’ildan (Crit Role: Campaign 1 Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Vex’ahlia (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Allura (Vox Machina)

-Caleb Widowgast (Mighty Nein)

-Mollymauk/Lucien/Kingsley Tealeaf (Mighty Nein)

-Laerryn Coramar-Seelie (EXU Calamity)

-Juno Steel (The Penumbra Podcast)

-Star Lord (Marvel Comics)

-Apollo (PJO)

-Zeus/Jupiter (PJO)

-Poseidon/Neptune (PJO)

Demisexual:

-Keyleth (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Essek Theylss - demisexual & demiromantic (The Mighty Nein)

Pansexual:

-Deadpool (Marvel Comics and implied in movies)

-Blitzø (Helluva Boss)

-Rita (The Penumbra Podcast)

Lesbian:

-Adora (She-Ra)

-Catra (She-Ra)

-Perfuma (She-Ra)

-Scorpia (She-Ra)

-Netossa (She-Ra)

-Spinnerella (She-Ra)

-Kima of Vord (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Beauregard Lionett (The Mighty Nein)

-Yahsa Nydoorin (The Mighty Nein)

-Kara Brunehilde (Venture Maidens)

-Rem (Venture Maidens)

-Gidget (Venture Maidens)

-Hemithea (Riodianverse)

-Josephine (Riodianverse)

-Lavinia Asimov (Riodianverse)

Gay/Achillean:

-George (She-Ra)

-Lance (She-Ra)

-Double Trouble (She-Ra)

-Taryon Darrington (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Shaun Gilmore (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Orym (Critical Role: Campaign 3 Hell’s Bells)

-Teddy Altman (Marvel Comics)

-Billy Kaplan (Marvel Comics)

-Bobby Drake (Marvel Comics)

-Angel Dust (Hazbin Hotel)

-Cecil Gershwin Palmer (WTNV)

-Carlos (Welcome to Night Vale)

-Nico di Angelo (PJO)

-Hyacinthus (PJO)

-Ganymede (PJO)

-Wylan Van Eck (Grishaverse)

Trans (M&F):

-Jewelstar (She-Ra)

-Perfuma (She-Ra)

-Khemdal Dust (The Mighty Nein)

-Terra (The Mighty Nein)

-Yussa Errenis (The Mighty Nein)

-Sipriotes (Riodianverse)

Nonbinary:

-Double Trouble (She-Ra)

-Jay (Supernatural Academy)

-Bryce Feelid (The Mighty Nein)

-Juno Steel (The Penumbra Podcast)

-Raine Whispers (TOH)

-Masha (TOH)

-Pottery Barn??? (Riodianverse)

-Mother William non-binary & two-spirit (Riordianverse)

Gender-fluid:

-Loki (Marvel Comics)

-Loki (Magnus Chase books)

-Mollymauk Tealeaf (The Might Nein)

-Bryce Feelid (The Mighty Nein)

-Alex Fierro (Magnus Chase books)

Not specified in cannon but generally queer:

-Amity Blight (TOH)

-Raine Whispers (TOH)

-Ed’s Clawthorne (TOH)

-Mara (She-Ra)

-Martin Blackwood MLM (TMA)

-Melanie King WLW (TMA)

-Victor Nikiforov (Yuri!!! On Ice)

-Scanlan Shorthalt (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Zahra Hydris (Vox Machina/TLOVM)

-Stolas (Helluva Boss)

-Eadwulf Grieve (The Mighty Nein)

-Zerxus Ilerez (EXU Calamity)

-Will Solace (PJO)

-Magnus Chase (Riodianverse)

-Piper McLean (PJO)

Polyamorous:

-Yizhi (Iron Widow)

-Li Shimin (Iron Widow)

-Wu Zetain (Iron Widow)

-Star Lord (Marvel Comics)

-Caleb Widowgast (The Mighty Nein)

-Astrid Becke (The Mighty Nein)

-Eadwulf Grieve (The Mighty Nein)

-Lonnie (She-Ra)

-Rogelio (She-Ra)

-Kyle (She-Ra)

[eveningdawn222]

in my anti-tim drake era. rich mf's parents aren't around :( and he decides to become a fucking stalker? not even for like. a good cause or anything. he's just like 'yeah im gonna stalk these people cause i think they're cool.' people r always like 'oh he's so smart and he's a mastermind' yeah? what was he gonna do if done rogue spotted him and decided they wanted to know what this kid knew? he was gonna endanger batman's whole ass mission, his life, and his sons lives, just so he could take some cute pictures?

and then when jason dies, he's like huh. wow i could totally insert myself here and become part of my favorite reality tv show :)' haha and he fUCKING BLAVKMAILS BRUCE

idk how people just brush that shit off he fucking preyed on the feelings of a grieving father to what? play dress up? like good for you!! you weaseled your way into the home of a grieving family!!!

like yeah. his parents weren't the best. doesn't give him an excuse to exploit someone else's family so he can live out some fantasy where he has a loving home. like ok? go off u weasel ig. u could have just. done the normal and sane and legal thing where u try to make friends by talking to them! instead of following them with a camera for years gathering blackmail

tim drake didn't need robin. he had everything he could have ever asked for at his fingertips, opportunities and money and privilege. he became robin not because he deserved it, but because he wanted it.

im so fucking tired of rich white boys just throwing themselves around like they're the shit. tim drake is the most boring, infuriatingly arrogant, overhyped asshole since t*ny st*rk.

people act like jason was wrong for attacking tim like he wasn't the one who stole his title, the thing that made him magic. from him. if tim drake really wanted to help people, he should've put on a mask himself. he had the money, and obviously the free time to do it. but no. what he did was steal the uniform of a boy who was barely cold in his grave, because robin will always be a game to him. something he can pretend he is do he doesn't have to look himself in the mirror and see the privileged, misogynistic, arrogant creep who stares back at him.

[fancyfade]

ok re read the first arc of red robin

keeping an eye out for the ra’s is obviously manipulating tim stuff i enjoyed it better. possible to integrate some parts into my own canon. it was also clear that tim is having a breakdown and not a reliable narrator when he winds up all alone (and also inadvertently puts himself in a position where he can be manipulated by ra’s and does wonder himself if he is looking for validation in ra’s).

i actually find this a very realistic response to trauma (pushing people away, not wanting to be helped) so it is frustrating when fandom wants to act like all of tim’s family and friends ditched him when... no. in text that is not what happens. he even admits to himself that he is not giving dick the real evidence for why bruce is still alive.

i still however hate how yost treats pru and i dont like how he treats damian and him making damian make random sexist remarks is so off when the writer himself uses sexist tropes and also has tim make similar sexist remarks. maybe tim only dislikes sexism if he’s the target. ”jeez, damian, you’re supposed to be condescending to GIRLS, not to ME, get it right”

[zitkaplushie]

fhsdfjksdlh its so funny 2 me that the same things they retconned jason as doing,  which he was criticised for and eventually used to victim blame him with- anger issues, being impulsive, being arrogant, rushing into things/the action without thinking - are the same things tim does in robin ‘91, only tim’s framed as being in the right, and we’re in his mind so we justify it like he does.

which reminds me of this post by @lysical and how framing affects how we see characters.

[urbaneturtle]

The Little Bird Has Found His Song - Robin by Chuck Dixon and Tom Lyle

In the first of the Rearview Mirror series, a look back at comics of the past, I dive into Tim Drake's first solo outing as #Robin in the 5-part miniseries by Chuck Dixon and Tom Lyle. Can Robin prove himself worthy to be #Batman's partner?

Looking back on the books you loved as a kid can sometimes be a harrowing journey. Sometimes, you are pleasantly surprised to see that the work is as well-made and powerful a story as you remember it to be. Initially created by Marv Wolfman and Pat Broderick, heavily developed by Alan Grant and Norm Breyfogle, and with a costume design by Neal Adams, Tim Drake is the third character to take the…

[fancyfade]

[image: 2 comic panels from red robin issue 14. first we see tim drake (as red robin) and dick grayson (as batman, with his cowl and cape off) standing around and talking in front of a computer. tim says “didn’t think the homunculus would care to try, much less be hurt by it...” dick says “You kidding? He practically bleeds a need to be accepted. there’s a stubborn logic to your thinking, but this approach bit bruce in the butt more than once.” tim asys “All the more reason to have contingency plans for the good guys as well as the bad.” dick says “just realize that not everyone can detatch themselves emotionally as easily as you can. Though I dnotice I’m not up there.” tim says “You never would be.” dick starts tapping on the computer keyboard. end image]

ugh dislike a lot of nicieza’s writing and i feel like ive seen some defenses of this plotline like ‘well nicieza clearly showed damian as a kid who wanted to be accepted, so he wasn’t trying to say tim is right it was showing tim as an asshole’ but i feel like that does not hold up to other character interactions and subtext.

like the general idea that is being prompted here is ‘tim is coldly rational.’ his issue is being TOO logical, TOO prepared (like bruce, b/c we have to emphasize he’s the next bruce). if you ask dick, his main crime is not having a hard enough password to hack on his hero hit list

[image: a comic panel showing tim as red robin and dick as batman (again sans mask and cape). in teh background, damian as robin is walking away kind of dejected and alfred has his hand on damian’s shoulder. tim asys “You understnd, right? just in  terms of general planning -- i mean look at his history -- his biology even...” dick says “I get it, tim, I do -- but at least maybe a harder password to hack...?” end image]

and tim’s internal monologue is anything but rational or logical -- its vicious and petty and straight up vile if you ask me

[image: 2 comic panels showing internal monologue from tim reading “always forgiven because he was raised in a vat of chemicals -- and taught to be a homicidal maniac.” and “is it okay that it felt good to finally not hold back on the little snot?” end image]

like... if dick had NOT said tim is ‘rational’ and just not being connected with his emotions enough, you could have a VERY convincing case of tim being... just a huge jerk. he’s letting his past resentment about damian cloud his judgment. it’s purely emotion driven.

but dick, who is portrayed by the author as in damian’s corner (sort of) and sympathetic-ish to him is like ‘no tims only problem is being emotionally detached and not having a harder to crack password.

(also like: I know it will be relevant and IDK if the author was even paying attention, but tim’s language is really dehumanizing here and it does come across as racist)

[fancyfade]

if tim were just being bitchy to pru because he’s in a mental health breakdown and kind of judgmental anyway, i would be less annoyed. or if it was because she was an assassin and he doesn’t like killing people but its not portrayed that way because he doesn’t treat owens or z that way (and neither does the text. they get to be competent and do stuff and not constantly be humiliated or the butt of jokes)

the annoying thing is that the text seems to validate it

[fancyfade]

[image: a comic panel from red robin #2 showing tim’s internal monologue. he thinks “if someone wanted to hold Tim Wayne for ransom, they probably wouldn’t start with a rocket launcher, or whatever that was. Three targets -- two male, one female. weird hodgepodge.. the girl seems untrained.” end image]

the red robin start of female characters being useless except for to comment on tim or think tim is cute or have emotions about tim.

seriously... what is the narrative function of an untrained female assassin who’s only purpose is to talk too much (according to the other characters), think tim is cute, and make tim feel responsible for her?

[fancyfade]

Despite liking the last 2 issues of gates of Gotham on the reread* it also definitely fell into that trope of dumbing down the other characters to make tim look better in the first 3 issues he's pretty much the only one coming up with ideas (okay dick does like. One thing)

That's why I can't really get into "tim is the detective after Bruce" thing I don't think the issues I've seen where they're trying to push that have ever NOT made everyone else act kind of ooc and dumb.

*first read through the negativity of the first 3 issues got to me and I couldn't enjoy the c last 2

[fancyfade]

Red robin is annoying cause Tim is the only like smart one and is responsible (while not on purpose) for a lot of Tim's weird characterization in fanon but Marcus To's art is so pretty that like it would just be improved by taking the words out and making it a picture book.

I will confess I agree with you but also have no clue what prompted this ask. unless you're just goin thru my old posts which is fine :P

But yeah everyone did seem kind of dumbed down to make Tim look smarter/more competent. my "favorite" bit was the international league of assassins not realizing that crimes could be committed in more than one country until tim pointed it out to them*. like... YOU COMMIT CRIMES IN MORE THAN ONE COUNTRY GUYS

*like i'd have to reread to make sure but i'm pretty sure thats how it went down.

[fancyfade]

trying to remember what all the plots were around 2009 era batman which means i’m trying to re-read the first 8 issues of red robin (but take better notes this time)

i had forgotten how like... blah the writing was?

ok so for some reason the writers decide to make pru (The female assassin) untrained (Which... why is she a league of shadow assassin if shes untrained)

then tim is like "Third time Ive punched a girl this week alfred wouldn't approve... but im wearing this outfit cuz i can cross lines robin couldn't"

first of all im sure robin punched girls who were trying to kill him

now you may be like “this is the writing examining tim’s flaws” (since as someone who was written by chuck dixon at some point, i’m sure he had some punching girls complex) but none of the other writing is good enough to make me think that it was intentional there are 2 kinds of characters here: Characters who are impressed with tim and think he’s the greatest and characters who get their asses kicked. sometimes they do both, as pru is impressed with his sexy* but also gets his ass kicked. so i’m pretty sure that if it was intentional, pru wouldn’t have gotten her ass kicked in 3 moves.

*which isn’t he 17 here? What the fuck DC

[fancyfade]

[image: tim’s internal monologue box reading “Every single computer system the league of assassins have, and they let me in. their computers control their self sufficient generators. I overloaded everything the league had, worldwide. not easy, given how closely they were watching. but i like a challenge.” end image]

a) god i hope those bases were unoccupied or you just killed like a shitload of people

b) so... is it ever revealed that there was at least some plan or non-idiot ball ra’s had here, or did he just grab the idiot ball and run with it? like WOW. cuz we saw the explosions we know he didn’t overload like fake things. (at least we saw 2 explosions).

like wow.

this is bad guys

edit: ra’s later clarifies that the damage tim did was “none to one such as i”. so like... do NONE of his bases matter? were there fake bases in there and only the real ones were the two we saw exploding and the cradle?

like he says “you hurt my business so now i’ll hurt yours” but god it all sounds so stupid