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Analysing The Debate on Controversial Films And Filmmakers’ Place in Contemporary Society

I. Introduction

The film industry is in a never-ending dialogue of complicated discussion and debate, ones that question what counts as cinema and what doesn’t, or ones that evaluate ways spectators consume film to locate the most ideal. When observing discussions on film in very recent years, a topic that has been the core of a mass division among academics and everyday fans is the dispute of whether or not we can separate art from the artist when consuming and interpreting films. As audiences, we can do more than just simply watch films passively. We can connect with the style techniques of the story, visuals and characters in an emotional realm, in turn aligning our own identities and outlooks with the films we choose to watch. Our favourite films are an exegesis of our passions and interests in life, something we share with others to convey who we are and generate this same interest in others.

But what do we do when those favourite films we watch, love and connect with are made under controversial means or by controversial people who have displayed a severe absence of morals? Suppose audiences classify a film or a director’s filmography as representing parts of their identities and passions. Building from this, one has to ask do any problematic or corrupt elements tied to either the film or director also represent them.

These questions have been dissected and analysed in both academic and casual film-orientated discussions, with critics attempting to compromise a director’s unethical actions in real life, such as abuse or bigotry, with their artistry in quality filmmaking. However, as Elizabeth Shaffer cites, despite “the intersection between art and morality” being “a huge topic…the majority of scholarship dedicated to what happens when bad people make good art has stopped before posing a solution” (2019, Page 2). This shows the difficulty in initial attempts to approach this discussion, as the binary opposition between a “bad” person constructing “good” art effectively establishes the challenging compromise of the situation. The dominating element of our morality and emotional responses to enjoying a good film is when we know that the person who provided it for us does not uphold moral values. This can prove to be too close to home for a large number of people, and thus, a “solution”, as Schaffer says, is avoided for the time being. The lack of morals or ethics in question can reside in the techniques a director uses when making a film. A prominent example of this is Stanley Kubrick, who submitted his main actress Shelley Duvall to borderline abuse when filming The Shining. The matter becomes more complicated when observing how they can also be found in a director’s life outside his art, such as Roman Polanski, who made quality contributions to filmmaking in Rosemary’s Baby. However, the act of rape he committed against a minor ten years after the film’s release has clouded every move he has made since.

Taking knowledge of both these situations into account, film critics and consumers are faced with the challenges and dilemmas that come with this debate. Shaffer references how, when she consumes and critiques art pieces, she is “operating wholly under my (her) own moral compass and aesthetic taste” (2019, Page 2). These are the tools needed to decipher a ‘bad’ person who has made ‘good’ art, a process that incorporates issues of objectivity and subjectivity. The interpretation that art of any medium can be objectively good or bad is one that has been tackled and dissected consistently throughout art criticism. Films like The Shining and other Kubrick works are deemed objectively good, masterpieces even, by film scholars and fans. However, one can find that his actions during the filming of The Shining are subjectively bad due to a varied classification of what counts as abuse and perfectionism. One’s aesthetic taste can direct to regarding The Shining as a ‘good’ piece of art, and their moral compass can contrast this by citing Kubrick as a ‘bad’ person, but not a ‘bad’ artist.

The relationship between art, artist and consumer is challenged and explored in the debate of separating art from the artist. Some propose that you can separate art from the artist because of what art can mean to those who consume it, overriding whatever the artist did wrong, that art belongs to those it is made for. However, this is counteracted through the emphasis on the artist as the one who put time, creativity and effort into composing whatever medium of art they created. Some take the perception that “art is not created by the people. The poet, composer, or painter is the creator and can do as he pleases with his creations” (Wilkinson, 2010, Page 18), claiming the artist is the sole creator and should be held accountable for anything their art achieves. This dynamic between the creator, what they create, and the audience they create it for is a frequent addition explored in critical and casual readings on the matter.

I would propose the thesis that whilst a prominent majority argue that a severance between art and artist is possible, contemporary analysis on the matter signals mostly to the opposition; severance between the two cannot be done. I will be analysing academic works and casual film fan posts using CDA, hoping to identify the thematic values of both sides to draw a conclusion on the matter.

II. Kubrick and Duvall: When The Artist Goes Too Far For His Art

Kubrick’s enlivenment of Stephen King’s novel The Shining was released in 1980 as the 11th feature in the director’s filmography and his first contribution to horror. Despite an initial wave of criticism for tampering with the book upon release, there has been a re-evaluation. The film is now heavily praised in both horror and overall filmmaking. It is cited as one of the greatest horrors and films ever made, being ranked the 75th greatest film of all time in the Sight & Sound directors’ poll in 2012. As is the case with most globally iconic pictures, The Shining’s filmmaking history is branded in alleged trivia and stories, ones that are rather challenging to hear. The central point of focus in these stores lies in the performance of Shelley Duvall as Wendy Torrance, a performance that has been panned and attacked by both critics and film fans and resulted in Duvall receiving a Razzie award for worst performance.

In recent years, Duvall’s performance in the film has been reassessed and interpreted as an unfortunate repercussion of Kubrick’s perfectionism bleeding into his directorial methods. To achieve what he decided to be a believable performance in psychological horror, Kubrick tarnished the wall between reality and pretence by commanding the cast and crew to not show any sympathy for Duvall and asking them to ignore her completely. He placed all praise and encouragement on leading actor Jack Nicholson while submitting Duvall to criticism and verbal disappointment. Kubrick actively tried to maintain Duvall’s high-stress levels on set, all for the sake of art in his quest for an authentic performance on Duvall’s part, who channelled her emotional reactions into her acting as seen in the film. Duvall’s health and well-being deteriorated under this quest for art she did not consent to, evident in how “this intensive training of the mind with isolation and “torture” for the role was too stressful for Duvall to bear, who started losing hair and was “in and out of health”, having been pushed to the very threshold” (Sur, 2021).

Kubrick’s mistreatment of Duvall during the filming of The Shining has generated consistent controversy and debate on whether such actions are ethical when done for the objective of quality art. Is it morally right that Duvall was forced to endure psychological torture every day on set, with the only available outlet being her performance as Wendy just “to appease the filmmaker’s expectations regarding the character”? (Sur, 2021). Contemporary film culture appears to neglect Kubrick’s directorial methods. On March 31, 2022, the Razzie committee officially rescinded Duvall’s nomination, stating, “We have since discovered that Duvall’s performance was impacted by Stanley Kubrick’s treatment of her throughout the production”.

III. Polanski

The issue of separating art from its artist to enjoy it freely can also derive when aligning the artist’s antics alongside the quality of their official work. Polish-French director Roman Polanski contributed to cinema history in his adaptation of Ira Levin’s psychological novel Rosemary’s Baby, released in 1968 and cementing the director’s place in filmmaking. Likewise to Kubrick’s cinematic take on The Shining, Rosemary’s Baby received critical acclaim upon release and continues to this day, being ever credited as one of the greatest horror films of all time. As high quality and praised as the film rightfully is, spectatorship and interpretation of the overall film and its subject matter were compromised upon Polanski’s conviction after raping a minor during a photography session in 1977. In an attempt to avoid his sentencing, the director fled to Paris, where he received protection and has since avoided repercussions for his actions. Despite his crimes, Polanski continues to make films that are widely watched and well-received, even obtaining a standing ovation at the Oscars in 2002, exactly 25 years after his act of assault.

Observing Rosemary’s Baby’s thematic material and characterisation under this knowledge of Polanski generates unsettling and confusing outlooks. The film is about the physical and psychological abuse of women and the exploitation of their bodies. It is evident in how Rosemary is used to carrying and birthing the antichrist for a Satanic cult and is gaslit whenever she voices uncertainty or resistance. Under the interpretation of the film critiquing women being exploited in this manner, one can only conclude this narrative is hypocritical and perplexing when this is exactly what Polanski did himself to a female child. However, suppose the interpretation of a critique is removed. In that case, the film automatically becomes laced with a sinister and sickening undertone, almost as if Polanski is manoeuvring the film to be an exercise of his outlook on women. As mentioned, the film’s plot is adapted from a book; while Polanski did not write the actual story, he still chose to bring it to the big screen. It is even stated that Polanski contacted Evans immediately after finishing the book to tell him it was an “interesting project” he would love to adapt.

After consideration and any evaluation of this mass context when watching Rosemary’s Baby, separating the art from the artist soon becomes unobtainable in this example. Audiences sometimes struggle to stomach Polanski’s work, so much so that there have been incidents of direct action against him, such as “feminist groups in France have regularly staged protests against Mr Polanski, including outside a retrospective of his career at the prestigious Cinémathèque in October 2017 (Alderman and Peltier, 2019).

IV. The Debate Of Separating Art From The Artist In Readings

Proceeding from the outlines of prominent examples in this debate, there have been proposals that separating art from the artist in consumption is a possibility, thus, arguing one can enjoy The Shining and Rosemary’s Baby for the highly-rated contributions to their craft that they are on the surface.

Writing for The Daily Free Press, Eden Mor tackles the challenge of disassociating the two with an immediate establishment and admitting that she felt guilty when consuming art from a problematic creator. This emotional response of guilt is a frequent occurrence in the discussion around separating art and the artist, as well as one alleged reason that it cannot be done. Therefore, one can identify emotions of guilt as a theme in this debate and research it. However, Mor attempts a counteraction to this by asking if there is logic and rationality in the argument that you can’t separate the two, does it “make sense to associate…actions…with the art?” (2021). This standpoint varies on the example to which we are applying it; some artists have committed acts that are a lesser evil when compared to others. Taking this standpoint under the hypothetical answer of no and applying it to Polanski’s films, it is possible to separate the artist from his art. Focusing on Rosemary’s Baby following the outline of context, one has to consider that Polanski isn’t responsible for creating the story, characters and messages. The author Levin has to receive the credit for what the film presents to its audiences, as it was his imagination that conjured up Rosemary as a character and the events she engages with. Mor alludes to this consideration by mentioning how countless people are paid when one consumes art, not just the one director who may be “the face” but “there are hundreds of other people profiting” (2021). When watching a film, one must consider that despite the head figure of a director leading the actors, what you see on screen can also result from the actor’s interpretation of the character. Mia Farrow (Rosemary) is the one who pours emotion into the role to, in turn, generate an emotional response in audiences. She deserves just as much credit for bringing Levin’s character from page to screen to life as a result of her chosen craft as Polanski does for his. Thus, the incorporation of other professionals involved in a film negotiates to grant a sole figure full credit. Mor expands her stance on the matter by bringing it directly to the audience, who are responsible for separating the art from its artist. Mor communicates her belief that “there isn’t a yes or no answer to this question. The art which you consume — whether it be movies, TV shows or music — is your own decision” (2021). This illustrates a conclusion offered to those undecided on the debate, one that can be explained as separating art from the artist exists as a “personal decision” (2021). Overall, Mor’s contribution to the matter is concerned with a reason as supported by a broader picture being evaluated, one that hands responsibility to audiences following this objective and thorough inspection and illustrates the debate as something that cannot be decided on without this.

Any counteraction to this claim is never far behind, evident in Ella Adams’ commentary on the matter as read in The Appalachian. Adams assures an overall contextual awareness in the opening of her opinion article, made clear in how she acknowledges social media’s placement as “the conversation on whether you can separate the art and the artist is hotly debated in social media comment sections whenever a new scandal involving a popular artist pops up” (2021). When tying this to the two established case studies, this is evident in film Twitter accounts posting about Rosemary’s Baby on the anniversaries of its release, where the comments will be split between praising the film itself and mentioning how Polanski is a paedophile and confusion about why the film is being posted due to this, combated with the debate. Adams echoes Mor’s interpretation in highlighting that “art is a personal expression of one’s perspective of the world. A piece of art’s relationship and meaning to its creator is exactly what makes it art.” (2021). However, Adams uses this element of the debate to provide a counteraction that you cannot separate, stating “because art is so personal…filmmakers and other artists cannot be separated from their creations” (2021). This is relevant to both case studies as a personal tie is employed. This element of personal expression serves as a further theme in the discussion’s research. Kubrick’s take on filmmaking and directing his cast is the controversy surrounding his work The Shining, and Polanski’s crimes bleed easily into the narrative and message of Rosemary’s Baby. When taking these examples into account, it can become rather controverting to propose you can separate art from the artist because of how much of the artist exists in the art. Adams progresses with this reasoning by highlighting the issue of income and profit as derived from art consumption, “art can also be a means of income. By supporting an artist’s work, you are supporting the artist themself,” when audiences consume art, they “support his (the artist) career and ability to create more content” (2021). This point of capital given to the artist, as another key theme, is a prominent addition when observing the matter of audience consumption, the fact that artists who have done wrong gain financial aid through being distanced from their work for the sake of consumption and enjoyment create a great deal of unsettlement. Adams’ argument is centred around this aspect, that the power that comes with the capital these artists receive outweighs any other claim to separate them from their art. Therefore, a difficult compromise is proposed when seeking any outcome to the debate.

Commenting on the debate in Triton Times, writer Reid Corley opposes the arguments similar to those seen in Adams’ piece with an immediate establishment of his ‘you can’ stance. He writes, “there must be a separation of art from the artist, especially given the current era we live in”, highlighting how he claims to be evaluating this stance under contemporary attitudes, an interesting thing to assure as most examples in this debate took place decades ago. Corley navigates his argument with a hierarchy of art consumption, stating that if we wish “to maintain the diversity of film and appreciate the artistic passion and creativity of individuals for the sake of the product, we must employ separation” (2019). Thus, Corley is proposing we place an art’s display of passion and creativity above artists’ actions. He progresses with the acknowledgement of “the backlash people receive from supposedly “endorsing” artists’ behaviour” when consuming their art, something fans of The Shining and Rosemary’s Baby are familiar with as the directors’ actions heavily cloud the films. However, there resides the opposition to this in Corley’s claim that “the appreciation for a piece of art should not indicate or imply the endorsement of the morality and actions of the artist”, thus, outlining the perspective that consuming and loving art has no place in being tied to supporting artists’ actions. This is a clear and precise negotiation of the attitudes as shown by Adams and others in perceiving art to be a personal exegesis of its artist. It relies on the ability to perceive and interpret the art purely on what the art is, not what its creator did or said. It is implied that Corley separates the two inevitably and with no further consideration, conveying that the art and whatever it is expressing is his biggest priority. Corley adds to this argument in an acknowledgement of others who contributed to the body of work, claiming that “to throw out an entire work for the sake of the involvement of one person is unfair to the thousands of others who work on projects” (2019). Here, Corley is supporting the previously outlined proposal that by dismissing Rosemary’s Baby, one also indirectly dismisses the effort Farrow put into her title performance, which is unarguably unfair to her. Corley strategically concludes his stance piece by communicating his standpoint that in claiming you cannot separate the art from its artist, one is employing the artists’ crimes as a measurement of art, something he perceives as wrong because “if we continue to dig up the crimes and vices of artists and use that in our judgment of art, we are openly evading satisfaction and pleasure from the artistic expression” (2019). In his conclusion, Corley argues for sake of enjoyment and remaining unbias in consuming and interpreting art because “it is not only necessary but imperative we establish this division” (2019). The division in question is between what a piece of art can bring and anything immoral its creator did. Overall, Corley’s verdict on the matter emanates from focusing on art specifically and what it can provide for audiences.

When conjoining his opinions with the case study films, one could conclude that Corley would advise watching The Shining under the analytical scope of what it shows about filmmaking and storytelling, to subtract Kubrick’s actions from the equation and instead recognise how the film represents a great deal of what makes visual horror. This would mean not even considering any information of what happened during filming to create the final product as it brings nothing to the final and ever-present imprint or messages the film has in its overall craft. This would be likewise when observing Polanski and Rosemary’s Baby, in that one who is consuming the film for the piece of film art it is should do so in the tunnel vision of its commentary on false pretences in seemingly prestige conservative societies and women’s liberation. However, as Corley emphasises the importance of art’s potential messaging from an isolated perspective, he falls short in considering the financial gain problematic artists gain from this and the power this provides. This, in turn, subtracts objective analysis of the debate under all potential arguments.

Ashley Griffin contributes to the discussion via OnStageBlog, where she opens rather heavily and emotionally with a reference to Dylan Farrow’s open letter about the abuse she endured at the hands of her filmmaking stepfather, Woody Allen. Griffin highlights how in the letter, Farrow asks, “What’s your favorite Woody Allen movie? Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brother’s electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me.” (1994). The section of the letter Griffin focuses on strategically ends with Farrow’s statement, “Imagine she spends a lifetime stricken with nausea at the mention of his name. Imagine a world that celebrates her tormenter.” (1994), which sets up both the tone and the stakes of the piece and the debate. Using this personal letter, Griffin is transferring the heavy emotional burden that resides in the debate of separating art from the artist, something she accentuates by mentioning her own abuse to develop the tone and stating how her experiences led her to decide “maybe I’m the perfect person to have this conversation about separating art from the artist” (2021). This emotive weight carries through the psychological abuse Duvall suffered in order to create a character in The Shining as well as the trauma Polanski’s young victim is now left with; Griffin makes sure to acknowledge this in writing “people who have experienced abuse and, because of their experiences, are triggered and forever impacted when the artist is ignored so that their art can be untarnished” (2021). Griffin emphasises the consideration that “there may not BE a way to have a truly neutral discussion about it”, proposing there are minimal opportunities to be objective, proposing an answer to why many written takes on the matter fail to be.

However, she does take a moment to consider the separation is a possible stance, expressing the claim that “but if every artist has to have a perfect, upstanding moral character we’d never consume art again. No one could live up to those standards” (2021), a statement she does agree with “to some degree” (2021). As a method of compromising with both sides, Griffins argues for informed consumption because, in her eyes, “there’s a difference between censoring something because of a disagreement about the content and censoring because the creator is a bad person” (2021). This conveys how Griffins is distinguishing the standard responses to problematic art made by a problematic person when the root of the problematic classification can be varying. To Griffins, one has to recognise and assign where the controversy lies in the consumption of a piece of art, as this can influence the issue of separation. This could be interpreted as being directed to the emotive and intellectual responses audiences make to art, meaning that if the art itself is problematic in subject matter, then it calls for censorship easier than if the artist were to have committed a problematic act. Therefore The Shining has the potential to remain consumed and praised because it is not problematic in the subject matter. Instead, it is a well-told horror story. However, Griffins finalises her own personal stance with a clear assignment of guilt to herself when consuming art she knows to be made by a controversial figure. She states how she “can’t help feeling a bit icky” (2021) whenever she engages with the art, and this is something she claims is “not an intellectual discussion I have with myself. It’s a gut response” (2021), thus, proposing the response is instinct over intellectual evaluation. This can relate to the case of Polanski in that Griffins would be unable to watch Rosemary’s Baby or any of his other films without a fight or flight response of negative feelings stemming from the knowledge of his paedophilia, thus, implying that separation between art and creator is virtually impossible due to this inner and natural emotional response. Griffins is clearly centring emotion in her piece and, in turn, looking away from a rational standpoint which is an occurring theme in the online discourse on the matter.

Unlike pieces previously analysed, Griffins draws attention to an outer audience and references opinions and interpretations other than her own, stating she recognises “those who are most willing to do mental gymnastics to justify continued enjoyment of works by newly revealed problematic creator” (2021). This highlights the potential strategy that has kept figures like Polanski free from persecution despite his crimes; film consumers connect to certain works to such a strong degree that repression and negotiation follow as cognitive responses when faced with any immoral acts committed by the film creators. Through this statement, Griffins acknowledges the intimate relationship between creator and consumer and the sphere of art reception. She suggests that emotional ties to a visual piece of art can override facts surrounding the artist in her argument; people push themselves to repress the knowledge and guilt to enjoy art. Griffins diplomatically follow with the aftermath of this repression on the audiences’ part, as she connects support with helping artists hide as through this repression when consuming, “money is going into their pockets…their power in the industry is strengthened” (2021). This is offered as a direct consequence and criticism of separating art from the artist; to make this severance means to allow abusers such as Polanski to still flourish under financial aid. In her conclusion, Griffins advises art consumers to search out alternate methods of consuming art and hold people accountable rather than cancel, as “if you do want to continue consuming a problematic artist’s art, find ways to do so that won’t financially profit them” such as using a library to take out films. A further piece of advice is to counteract any controversy in artmaking by making “your own good art” as “that means it’s your turn to make a platform for yourself” (2021). Overall, Griffins’ articulation on the debate of separating art from the artist is one that exists between an intimate and first-person experience as well as an exterior examination of what the majority do to ensure separation.

In 2018, Constance Grady opens her piece titled ‘ What Do We Do When The Art We Love Was Created By A Monster?’ with a direct and potential answer. She writes, “One of the common answers to that question has been repeated so often it has come to seem as though it’s an ontologically self-evident truth: You must separate the artist from the art”(2018), conveying how this side of the debate is treated as one that is non-negotiable as it is a universal ‘truth’. She continues by including how “separating the artist from the art, this argument goes, is the best way to approach all art, no matter what you try to get from it. And to fail to do so is both childish and gauche because only philistines think it necessary to reconcile their feelings about a piece of art with their feelings about the people who created it.”(2018). This statement draws from the argument for a separation with reference to its emphasis on an alleged logic. This trait can be interpreted as what makes this stance a “universal truth”. However, Grady counteracts this claim using an overarching perspective and observation of art criticism; “the idea of separating the artist from the art is not a self-evident truth. It is an academic idea that was extremely popular as a tool for analyzing poetry [art] at the beginning of the 20th century, and that has since evolved in several different directions” (2018). Grady is criticising classifying ‘you can separate art from the artist’ as a universal truth by considering how critics have manoeuvred the stance in a way that allows further analysis of art to branch it into a scientific realm, as it eliminates acknowledgement of who created it which can cause tension. This displays an ideology that explores and questions art’s potential essence because it’s negotiating any corruption in an artist’s character in a quest to push the actual art itself to higher boundaries.

Grady elaborates by underlining how critics call for an evaluation of art based on its ability to ‘stand-alone, as “the text had to stand on its own, and if it didn’t, the New Critics argued, that proved it wasn’t really good art” (2018). This highlights ideas of separating art from the artist, such as claiming art is only of quality when one can consume and acclaim it with no reference to who the artist is or what they’ve done prior, as “the best way to engage with any really good piece of art is to treat it as a transcendent work that can stand on its outside of history and speak to anyone from any place and time.” (2018). Essentially, Grady establishes how the mindset of consuming and critiquing art based on its ability to transcend from any indication of its creator and instead exist as its own artistic entity influences the separating art from the artist debate. This is an analytical lens that calls for an emphasis on art and art alone, generating critics and consumers to have a tunnel interpretation of asking what is the art saying. Furthermore, it is prompting that consuming art to conclude that the art’s quality relies on being able to perceive it without the artist’s influence. When tying this to our case studies, one would conclude that the New Critics Grady references would direct film fans to watch The Shining as a horror film and decipher their stance on it based on its ability to generate the appropriate emotional response and its quality in visuals and storytelling. Therefore, Kubrick’s methods and any behind-the-scenes knowledge would have to be absent from consumption and interpretation.

This mindset can be negotiated or made difficult when it relates to ideas of audience identity and stance when watching films and other forms of media. To elaborate, if one watches The Shining as a horror fan, then this would be a simple route to take because, for them, the art is standing separate from its creator as they focus on genre and its effect. However, suppose one watches and interprets The Shining from a Kubrick fan rather than a horror fan. In that case, this mindset is challenging as they are watching for the creator and the creator alone, thus, consistently considering Kubrick and his complicated methods when viewing. As a result, audience identity and what has drawn the spectator to the film significantly challenge the stance New Critics are calling for. Anyone consuming The Shining under the identity of a Kubrick fan would potentially be submitting to Auteur theory, the belief that the director is the head creative force behind the film as a whole who imprints their own identity and vision onto a script, thus, “the film artist is thought to make films in the same way the writer creates books” (Demiray, 2015).

Kubrick’s position as an auteur filmmaker with a distinct style proposes complications with consuming any art outside the artist as the New Critics strive for. His recognisable vision in filmmaking collects a dedicated fanbase who consume his work for him. Therefore, they reflect back to him as a creator when consuming his art. This leads to further stances against separating art from the artist, in that if the director leaves such a heavy imprint on their work that it becomes an extension of their identity, then it becomes challenging to separate them as a person from what they have created. However, whilst “classic auteur theory has commanded much of film scholar debate since the 1960s”(Tredge, 2013) and, thus, has influenced the audience’s perception in associating a film so heavily with its director, it can be negotiated as the set in stone outlook. One can argue against both auteur theory and its impact on the debate when considering the numerous roles that exist in filmmaking other than the director. To elaborate, “feature films are never made by a single person. From the writer to the director to the studio executives, many ideas and hours of hard work go into collaborating on film production. It is important to know that one theory of authorship will not answer the question for all films” (Tredge, 2013), an attitude previously explored by Corley. Expanding from Corley, this can liberate a film from any controversy or lack of morals its director holds because it removes the director as the sole provider, thus, proposing audiences consume a film no matter any errors on the director’s part. Under this attitude, one can recognise the other efforts and creativity that went into creating Rosemary’s Baby or The Shining, such as the score composers who assist in executing the atmosphere or the actors who bring the script to life. Overall, one can use the stance of a film as “a primarily collaborative medium” to identify how it would “seem odd that theorists are constantly searching for the singular artist responsible for authorship (Gerstner and Staiger 5)” (Tredge, 2013), thus, separating art from its artist (in this case the director) becomes inevitable due to the other credits a film has in creation.

In his article On The Possibility Of Separating Art From The Artist in The Stanford Daily, Jacob Kuppermann offers an opinion that issues counteractions to these ideas. He references how this debate is heavily significant and present in entertainment and cultural discussions as “there is perhaps no story repeated more often in the annals of pop culture than that of the brilliant artist who is revealed to be a vile person” (2017), offering the binary opposition of a “brilliant artist” who can offer amazing art to negotiate how they are a “vile person”. He recounts previous and overall dialogue on the matter to solidify his own upcoming opinion, for example, highlighting “the idea that we must not abandon works of art solely because of the misdeeds of their creators is a popular one” which created a decision that the “only thing that should matter when experiencing a work of art is what’s actually going on in the work itself” (2017). This constructs a narrative thread for his readers using a planting of immediate perspectives on such a complicated debate, in turn, creating anticipation for his own take that may agree or disagree, which he soon offers in “I agree that personal guilt is not a useful part of the work of critically assessing artists who have done reprehensible things, but the idea that a work must only be evaluated based on its direct content is trickier”. Here, Kuppermann is communicating the opposition between having emotional responses to art made by a controversial figure and the critical and logical observation needed to come to a conclusion. This opposition in question is stemmed from how emotional reactions prevent critical evaluation of information even though they are cognitive processes resulting in the gathering of information. By deeming emotions of guilt and shame as “not useful”, Kuppermann is critiquing delving into emotions during this discussion and branding the act as an interruption in evaluation. This proposes moving forward into a more logical headspace once one has classified the emotions of guilt towards an art they enjoy upon finding out the artist is problematic.

Furthermore, Kupperman proposes a counteraction to the rejection of auteur theory in finding a solution. He does so by proposing a filmmaker chooses to invest personally in their project as“the artists themselves don’t separate themselves from their work” (2017), an outlook made evidently in Kubrick’s emphasis on himself as an auteur. This makes it difficult to separate the artist from their work because“a critical approach that refuses to consider outside factors is limited and foolish, blinding us from a full consideration of any creative work” (2017). To Kupperman, one cannot eliminate consideration of external factors in creating art, such as Kubrick’s emotionally taxing director methods used to make his film, because it refuses to observe the art fully. Essentially, Kupperman is questioning the rejection of how the art was made in a problematic manner by arguing it means rejecting a large portion of the artistic product itself. He carries his argument on by adding a further emphasis on auteurship and the personal elements of creating art, stating how“in modern pop culture, persona and identity so deeply intermingle with art that the artist themselves often becomes impossible to disentangle from their art fully. Consider the films of Woody Allen. The protagonists of movies like “Crimes and Misdemeanors,” “Annie Hall” and “Manhattan,” in all of their neuroticism and sexual dysfunction, are less characters and more proxies for the director himself, who plays all three” (2017). This serves as a critical element in separating art from the artist debate, calling out how directors can invest a huge amount of themselves into their films and manoeuvre them to be an extension of their own emotions, lifestyles and persona and therefore negotiate the ability to be separated from their art by having their art be them. The extreme emotional range Duvall displayed in The Shining is a direct result of Kubrick’s belief in creating a real-life psychological breakdown to portray a fictitious one. Polanski’s real-life actions sinisterly align with the conflict and oppressive themes represented in Rosemary’s Baby. Their intimate attitudes and perspectives are elements of their filmmaking with regard to narrative, visuals and themes, thus combining themselves and their art.

Kupperman further emphasises cognition and logic when evaluating art made by controversial figures by highlighting the specific processes audiences go through, as “to appreciate one of these films while simultaneously remaining aware” of an artist’s problematic behaviour “is an exercise in cognitive dissonance” (2017). This mirrors Griffins’ exploration of the mental justifications made to enjoy art for art despite the knowledge the creator lacks morals. Yet, Kupperman cites it as dissonance and, thus, the elimination of harmony between art and what the creator did. This displays a more in-depth evaluation of the emotional and psychological aspects involved when it comes to separating the art from the artist, one that locates the processes one inherits to be able to do so as distancing the artist’s act from their work to fully appreciate the work as its own physical entity. To gain some objectivity in his piece, Kupperman goes on to examine why and how one could not separate the two, as “every creative work is inherently the unique product of the person (or persons) who made it” (2017), implying the relationship that comes from someone creating a piece of work may be too powerful to separate. Kupperman makes an example of this in how the “same minds” that create works are the same ones that can “sexually assualt” numerous people, conveying how “the personal elements of their crafts are powered by the same people who have done despicable things” (2017). This “ever-present blurring of the lines between the personal and creative spheres” serves as a compromise to separating art from the artist in Kuppermann’s eyes. The personal acts artists commit cannot be severed from their art because both are products of the same person. Kuppermann progresses this perspective by incorporating a familiar criticism of any attempt to distance the art from the problematic artist, as “the fact of the matter is, in our capitalistic, fame-obsessed culture, being a critically or commercially successful artist gains you a significant amount of influence. This influence, when in the hands of certain unfortunate individuals, can be leveraged to do harm to others” (2017). Here, Kupperman is pinpointing the capital and power artists gain when audiences consume and support their work, presenting it as a gateway to further assaults and immoral acts. This argument dresses the debate in the manner of it not mattering if one can separate art from the artist but instead should one separate the two? This brings the issues of ethics and morality straight to the art’s audiences rather than just the artist themself, prompting those engaging in the debate to reflect on their own morals as implied by their standpoint.

Kupperman situates the stance that you can make the separation against the credentials needed for it to be maintained, the same ones that are associated with issues of ethics and morality. He informs that “separating the art from the artist would be a perfectly sound critical school among many in an ideal world, one where the power dynamics and imbalances fueled by fame and industry influence did not exist and were not vital tools used by sexual predators of all stripes” (2017). This works to identify and call out the idiocies in the entertainment industry that inflict onto the separation debate, ones that Kuppermann is presenting as valid reasons to not separate art from its artist as these are detrimental issues for victims and those vulnerable. To Kupperman, to separate art from the artist means to ignore the harmful abuse of power that problematic artists carry out once audiences have ignored previous acts to enjoy the selected art. This is supported by Kupperman’s direct acknowledgement of the victims who have suffered at the hands of abusive artists. He addresses how “by creating a culture that excuses the misdeeds of the powerful, talented or rich, we make it harder for their victims, from fellow celebrities to anonymous teenagers, to retain their dignity in society” (2017), which demonstrates the emotional turmoil victims go through. This situates the debate further against the emotional aspect, mentioning how society separating art from a problematic artist allows victims to suffer and remain publicly humiliated. This very statement supports the stance of not separating art from the artist. It emphasises how separating the two prioritises a physical art piece over a person who has been exploited and left traumatised, thus, displaying a grounded perspective that calls for emotional well-being to be considered.

Russell Smith wrote his opinions on the debate the same year as Kupperman, therefore, has the same amount of knowledge on relevant events. However, his take differs vastly. He is immediately in illustrating his stance by stating to his readers, “the knowledge of the immorality of the creator does not distract from my enjoyment of his creation; indeed, I am made even more curious to know how beauty is perceived by a violent man” (2017). Therefore, Smith displays confidence in his ability to automatically serve art from the actions of its creator. He does, however, suggest some form of conjoining high-quality art with the disturbing acts of its artists, which is something unfamiliar in academic discourse, implying that one should delve into the bitter irony surrounding the perspective. Smith does echo previous pieces analysed in shifting from his own personal experience with consuming art to an overall cultural experience, done so when analysing any judgment he receives for separating art from the artist. He writes, “and if I do this and am judged immoral for it, is it because it is bad for just me or bad for society at large?” (2017), conveying the potential argument that engaging with art made by problematic people has detrimental effects on our society as a whole. This does make sense to a degree because it alludes to supporting abusive figures who exploit the power consumption of their art provides, something Smith considers in highlighting “the problem of engaging with art by bad people, it is said, is an economic one”(2017). This is expanded on when Smith underlines the overall issues in the entertainment industry and supports abusive figures such as Polanski, as “ it is also argued that the culture of movie-making in Hollywood is pervasively sexist and abusive and that contributing to its economic success as a whole is a subtle approval of its tactics. An essayist in The New York Times tweeted that “the critical acclaim and economic clout of the art facilitate the abuse.” (2017). Smith is directly referencing other conclusive statements on the matter. Such statements are drawn from an overall observation of the dangerous aftermaths of still providing finances for someone like Polanski. This proposal still praising his work, allows his sexual abuse to fester and flourish.

Despite this, Smith remains grounded in his stance that separation is both possible and needed. He supports this stance by opposing the syntax used when it comes to discussing consuming art made by controversial figures, shown in “I want to take issue with the idea of “enjoying” art as well. Yes, one does enjoy it, sometimes, but that’s far from the only reason for art’s existence” (2017), thus, challenging the ways people have been discussing and evaluating the debate by suggesting their view on art and its purpose has been one dimensional and therefore, lacklustre. Smith’s worldview on the matter is given as “to consume art is for me as necessary a means of understanding the culture around me as reading the news is; it is necessary and automatic, almost involuntary” (2017). This grants art as an educator, similar to what Grady’s presentation of the New Critics was underlining. Smith is illustrating how art isn’t just wanted for entertainment purposes and is instead a vital window into societal views during any time of creation. Therefore, it holds intellectual merit alongside enjoyment. Smith goes on to dissect this newfound intellectual aspect of art as a medium, tying it into his reasoning of separating any art from a problematic creator in stating how “If I were to stop delving into unpleasant, embarrassing or possibly immoral art for any reason, I would feel cut off from my own intellect. I would feel stupid” (2017). Here, Smith argues for the separation between art and artist for the alleged sake of intellect that art offers, regardless of its content or tone. This emphasises art’s ability to stand on its own, separate from its creator, in generating cognitive action in the form of education for audiences. Essentially, Smith is asking his readers to consider that, no matter what the creator of artwork has done, the potential education art can offer has to exceed the controversial actions because it can elevate individuals and society.

Smith continues in his stance of separation being possible by stating his opinion in consuming art aligns inherently with upholding its direct subject matter. He communicates how he is “baffled, genuinely baffled, by the idea that by consuming art one is somehow perpetuating the ideas in it”(2017), a clear emotive presentation of his viewpoint. This showcases a precise separation between the act of engaging with art and agreeing with any distasteful content it demonstrates, something that can be made evident when looking at Rosemary’s Baby as watching a horror film about a woman being exploited doesn’t automatically mean one agrees women should be exploited for childbearing. Instead, the film is being viewed and loved for its quality display of emotive genre filmmaking with regard to visuals and storytelling. This display is frequently used in the education of filmmaking, even 54 years post-release. Using Smith’s well-argued logic, Rosemary’s Baby is used as a tool example in teaching what makes a high-quality film has to relate to Polanski’s sexual misconduct. Is it an endorsement of it rather than a direct celebration of the film itself as a piece of visual art and that alone? Furthermore, Smith supports his stance using the thoroughly and frequently discussed issue of artists gaining financial aid when their work is supported, stating, “I get the concern about the financial support of criminals, but that economic question really only applies to living artists and only to certain art forms” (2017). This argument is limited in where it can be applied as not every controversial artist dies before any knowledge of their crimes or mishaps emerges. For example, one can carry on watching The Shining and purchasing any merchandise related as Kubrick has been deceased for 22 years now, thus, liberating consumers from the mental war of economically supporting a problematic creator. However, Polanski is unfortunately still alive, therefore, still benefits financially from engagement with his work. This means one has to await his passing in order to freely enjoy his films. Even then, this only tackles the issue of finances and not ethics or morality. Overall, Smith’s argument in the debate proves to be thorough and holds interesting content in distinguishing art from being purely entertainment based and instead intellectual and educational.

Noah Keate submitted a piece on the debate for The Boar in October 2021, one that opens with the ethical area. He begins his article with the summary statement, “questions of morality prove themselves to be so enriching and exciting, to me at least, precisely because they are the guiding force for how humans can live their best life” (2021); thus, outlining the theme of morality as a principle perspective to interpreting his piece. He goes on to incorporate art and its definition, proposing the attempt to identify a direct definition is never-ending. However, one can conclude that “artistic creations relate to how humans seek to express something to others and pinpoint their view on the world” (2021). This again ties art with the purpose of personal expression, as previously mentioned, as well as assisting in constructing an outlook of society as a whole. This is placed in Keate’s piece as what is compromised or potentially lost when he follows this with the concept of expressive art being created by an immoral person. He attaches the two by articulating, “there then comes the question of whether we can separate loving artistic creations while also loathing the individuals who made such pieces of work” (2021). This poses the binaries of good art and bad people who are artists against one another. Like many academic writers, Keate places the idea of good art before the unethical creator when articulating the concept, thus, implying the line of thought he and others have on the matter. The fact that the art piece is of high quality in expression and education comes before the fact the artist has committed immoral acts, therefore, echoing how one initially goes to praise a work of art but is then reminded of the sour downside involving the creator. Keate immediately proposes his solution to this issue by swapping the binaries’ placement in his statement, “an individual artist may have made some wicked remarks should not detract from the fact that their art, which could be completely unrelated, remains superb” (2021). This outlines the belief that the personal actions of the artist have no correlation with the quality or effect of their art. Keate is foregrounding art’s importance, despite the framing of the statement putting art second, in an attempt to saviour it from the crimes of its creator. To Keate, “art as a worthwhile end and something to celebrate, regardless of the creator themselves” (2021). Therefore, isolates art to be its own separate entity that provides benefits for people and culture. He states a more personal perspective to exemplify this thought process “an artist might have political views I deplore, but I still should be able to appreciate their art from that”. Here, Keate offers a clear and precise division between art and artist. Not only that, but Keate suggests that this should be done, which is an interesting contrast to the previously proposed questions of whether should art be separated from the artist rather than just can it be? Keate gives an answer of yes to the question of ‘should’ and directs it to art, arguing one has to appreciate art separately from its artist.

He provides a contextual example within the case study of Polanski, stating“while I will always deplore Roman Polanski, I would never campaign for his films to be censored”. Once again, Keate prioritises art, in terms of film, despite an acknowledgement of Polanski’s crimes. This implies that one can and should appreciate good art as long as there is an acknowledgement that the artist has not demonstrated morality. Keate concludes his piece by illustrating “there should be a celebration that artistic judgement — both of the art and artist — can only come with artistic freedom”, meaning people should be free to consume and critique art how they please because “the public are individually entitled to have whatever view on the culture they like”.

Academics and cultural entertainment journalists tackle the debate of separating art from the artist using a thorough and intellectually driven landscape. Their pieces inspect multiple areas of the discussion at a time, analysing art’s multiple purposes and their extents, in addition to analysing the ethical elements on both the artist's and audience’s part. Crucial stages of both the creation and consumption realm of an art piece are explored as a means of identifying potential arguments for either side. Authors sophistically outline both sides to present an objective dissection. No matter what their proposed one is, the other is marked off in analysing. This shows a genuine objective of and concern in locating an authentic solution to a challenging discussion. Those who argued for art to be separated from artists displayed an emphasis on the art itself and what it means for culture and entertainment, implying that art’s purpose can override an artist’s actions when its quality means it impacts society and audiences enough. However, the other stance outlines their morals, arguing that allowing abusive people to gain financial growth because they are good artists is unethical. This demonstrates the highlight of who the artist is as a person and audience responsibility, rather than focusing on any impact their art has.

V. The Debate Of Separating Art From The Artist In Online Discourse

Casual conversations among general film fans who may not study film academically are something that is added to every day, sometimes jumping from one extreme side to the other daily. This provides an opportunity to observe and analyse opinions and questions directly from the general public who choose to consume or ignore the art in question.

The immediate online site one can find almost infinite film discussion on is Letterboxd, a social networking platform designed for fans to share opinions on films and chart what they watch, with the former being done so through reviews. This provided insight into recent opinions on both my case study films and directors, for example, the re-evaluation of Duvall’s performance in The Shining following examination of Kubrick’s extreme methods. This shift in attitudes is identified in the freely structured Letterboxd reviews, such as “The fact that Shelley Duvall is constantly overlooked whenever I see anyone talk about this film is a fucking crime, especially considering the mental and emotional abuse Kubrick caused her so she could maintain a realistic performance and critics didn’t even mention her once upon this film’s release”. This highlights a calling for Duvall to receive some sort of justice for what she endured on the set of Kubrick’s film, something that can only come from an acknowledgement that one cannot completely align with Kubrick’s actions toward her. In addition to this, users have displayed a complete and grounded rejection of praising the film alongside knowledge of Kubrick’s mistreatment of Duvall, shown in “I don’t think any movie, not even The Shining, justifies treating Shelley Duvall like that. Made me extremely sad this time around thinking about it. I just think the way we treat each other is more important than the art we make”. This as statement illustrates ideas of separating art from the artist in a coincidence with ethics, one that asserts no artistic merit or quality within The Shining as created and exerted by Kubrick can account for the psychological deterioration experienced by his leading lady. This user conveys a clear inability to separate art from artists and enjoy The Shining because they cannot eliminate their belief of compromised ethics in the form of extreme mistreatment on Kubrick’s part. Thus, the film generates negative emotions during viewing, which has the potential to lead to a refusal to watch. This refusal to engage with The Shining addresses the debate by showcasing how an artwork can be censored personally or officially due to knowledge of something the creator did. This user isn’t showing an inability to watch the film due to low quality in its elements such as visuals or narrative, which is the expected norm in disliking a film; instead, all criticism this user exerts derives from how Kubrick pushed Duvall to extreme measures for the sake of his art which exemplifies how art cannot be separated from its creator. Overall, Letterboxd reviews on The Shining are frequently attached to Duvall, whether that be showing sympathy towards her alongside criticising Kubrick or calling attention to her characterisation of Wendy, for example, “Perfect except for Shelley Duvall who delivers an extremely mixed performance”.

Polanski also faces a display of critiques towards his actions in areas provided to discuss his films on Letterboxd, alluding to an inability for the actions to be separated from expressing enjoyment or praise towards the art on a consumer’s part. An example of this is found in such Letterboxd reviews of Rosemary’s Baby that highlight immediate addressing of Polanski’s crimes or immoral character in the tongue-in-cheek statements of “Trust the devil to make such a great movie about the devil” and “ironic that a movie about a woman horrified that she has no control over her own body was made by Roman Polanski”. These came up as two of the most popular reviews of the film. Thus, are presented as the most shared and supported summaries of Rosemary’s Baby yet are dedicated mostly to referencing something the director did outside the film. As a result, this illustrates film fans’ inability to separate Polanski’s crimes from the film he made years prior, thus, displaying how his art cannot escape him as a person. Furthermore, others alluded to an attempt to disassociate Polanski as a director and person from his work to acknowledge the quality of the film comfortably, evident in “Pretty crazy how such an iconic movie didn’t even have a director. Truly amazing”. One even proposed that the film’s plot alludes to Polanski as a person in “and I believe that this is an autobiographical film about roman p*lanski’s birth”. This demonstrates how challenging it is to separate Rosemary’s Baby as a film from the life of its director, as this viewer’s public summary of the film has to connect it to and critique Polanski’s unethical actions, such to an extent they exemplify a wish he was not the one who created it.

Film fans addressing and critiquing Polanski as a person is a theme identified in nearly all reviews of all his work as accessed on Letterboxd; for example, one review of his 2002 film The Pianist, which was also heavily acclaimed, is just “movie good, polanski bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad”, conveying the binary oppositions of isolated art and the exterior knowledge of its artist with regards to one being praised and the other attacked. This was further emphasised in the dark humour reviews such as “Polanski takes time out from bathing with pubescent girls to make another masterpiece of film” and “Polanski is one of the great directors, there is no denying it. Just be wary if he suggests he babysit while you’re out at the movies”. Letterboxd users are consistent and straightforward in ensuring Polanski’s sexual misconduct is always associated with his work, maintaining the stance that art can not be made separate from its artist and their problematic persona.

The popular social media site Twitter is vehicled to express a range of opinions on infinite topics, film culture proving to be a well-favoured and massively supported niche among users. As both a form of social media and an exertion of current events, the site generates insightful discussion into topics such as separating art from its artist; users show extreme and obstinate stances in refusing to separate the two and display their opinions on problematic filmmakers unapologetically. When one searches Roman Polanski on the site, praise for his art is kept rather minimal among the immediate and most like tweets. For example, one account expressed their stance with the filmmaker in “Roman Polasnki is 88 and walking the tightrope of death and i am waiting for him to fall”. This communicates an extreme emotional response to Polanski and his crimes. The fact it is one of the first tweets found when his name is searched represents how he, as a figure, is being moved further away from his isolated art and what it means to further emphasise his previous crimes. This implies that separation between art and artist is coming towards a place where a creator’s art isn’t even considered in mentions of them once they’ve committed immoral acts. Other popular tweets about Polanski aren’t as emotionally driven. Instead, they aim to communicate information on the acts that have clouded reception towards his art, such as “Roman Polasnki tried suing a journalist for defaming his good name by reporing the multiple rapes he was accussed of but then couldn’t go to court in fear of being extradited for the rape of a minor he pled guilty to”. This further shows how Polanski is becoming more known for his crimes than his art by being one of the initial popular tweets about him. Film culture on Twitter concerns itself mostly with educating and keeping the information on Polanski alive and circulating, almost ignoring any praise towards his work when discussing him.

Even when official film and entertainment accounts post about Polanski’s films, there appears to be a conflict between praise for the film itself and attacks on Polanski in the response comments. These tend to be structured in binary oppositions, likewise to statements made in academic readings and Letterboxd reviews, thus, establishing the qualities of the art that are put against acts of the artist. In one official post to honour Rosemary’s Baby, captioned as “Polanski’s Rosemary’s Baby” with screenshots of some of the film’s iconic moments, one of the immediate and most liked responses states, “Great film would be nice if someone else’s name popped up at the start though”, the one following it mirrors the binary opposites as “He’s a rapist but what an amazing film”. These response tweets are direct representations of the issue of separating art from artist; they show that Rosemary’s Baby cannot be praised for the brilliant film that it is without mentioning the distasteful fact that a man who committed rape directed it, alluding to how it is difficult for the majority of people to separate the two. Furthermore, it implies that film fans on Twitter feel that praising the film without still mentioning what its director did is a reflection of their own morals, that they may appear ignorant of his crimes if they don’t bridge them with their appraising response to a post about his film.

Stanley Kubrick and The Shining also receive this treatment from film fans on Twitter; searches for Kubrick’s name on the site embody a shift in attitudes towards him as a filmmaker and person in addressing his harsh actions towards Duvall on the set and mentions of these actions cloud searches of the film too. The first is evident in film accounts tweeting statements such as “Stanley Kubrick was a sexist and problematic man”, focusing on his negative actions and the personality these imply rather than any of his work and what quality it has. As a result, this alludes to Kubrick’s problematic actions may be overriding his art in terms of receiving mass attention. Others blend both criticisms towards him as a person. His credibility as a filmmaker in “Stanley Kubrick was brilliant, but he was also problematic”, communicating how one who engages with Kubrick and his work must face this harsh truth of him being an amazing artist, but this isn’t the case for him as a person. The latter is also evident when one searches for either Kubrick or The Shining and observes the most popular tweets, one prompt for serious discussion on the matter is, “At what point does cancelling everybody start to stifle the art? A lot of the best artists in history were problematic, and this applies to all mediums. Stanley Kubrick was a psychopath, but The Shining is still a masterpiece”. This tweet shows a consideration for the art, worrying about it being diluted and diminished at the hands of censoring its problematic artists. It highlights the opposition between the two under the categories of good and bad. It also acknowledges the fact that many of the best artists have done immoral things but questions if art should suffer as a consequence of this. This applies to The Shining because even though the film is credited for its skilful display of storytelling and visual elements to create a high-quality horror film, shown in the classification as “a masterpiece”, the stories of how Kubrick pushed Duvall to such extreme emotional lengths negotiates fans expressing their love for the film which this tweet aims to reject. This implies a stance of separating art from the artist, especially in the last line of the tweet, which argues that Kubrick’s unorthodox manners do not negotiate The Shining being a master in filmmaking.

Likewise, the official film accounts posting tributes to Rosemary’s Baby only to be met with criticism towards director Polanski. These accounts posting tributes to The Shining also receive criticism towards Kubrick’s actions during the filming. One post aimed to be a tribute to the film received a top comment that embodies the binary opposition between a good film and a bad filmmaker, stating, “The Shining is a good movie, but fuck Kubrick for torturing Shelley Duvall”, thus, establishing praise for the film being a well made one but also holding the director accountable for mistreating one of his cast. This further conveys examples of art not being separated from the artist because it shows no tribute to The Shining is free from Kubrick being criticised, even if that criticism comes alongside an appraisal of the film. Another post showed a behind-the-scenes photo of Kubrick and Duvall on set, a seemingly interesting piece of film memorabilia to a film fan who has no knowledge of what happened between the two. However, comments from users with this knowledge do not align with the sentimental and tribute tone of the post, one stating, “from what I remember working with Kubrick was a living hell for Duvall”, and another, “Kubrick put Duvall through way too much”. These responses decipher art not being separated from the artist because they exemplify the artist’s controversial acts being consistently mentioned when the art is brought up on Twitter, as well as an absence of praise directed towards the Shining as a film, implying Kubrick’s acts override the art. Some exemplify this stance in a grounded manner, such as “I’ll never forget the torment Kubrick put Duvall through; she deserved better”, thus, establishing their feelings of Duvall deserving justice for how she was treated as well as condemning Kubrick as a controversial person rather than praising him as a innovate filmmaker.

Reddit is an online site that attracts controversial subject matter and multi-layered discourse. The site has a reputation for possessing some conservative and problematic elements. However, there does reside counteraction. When observing the issue of separating great art from controversial artists, one finds the shift into the stance that you can’t, evident in a response to the straightforward question of can you separate the two stated as “ I think the art comes from someplace within the artist. Imo as long as the work itself doesn’t describe evil things or stands in connection to anything bad, it’s not problematic to enjoy”. This thought is interesting due to its grey area; it immediately acknowledges the self-expression and personal value all art holds from its creator, yet argues if the art itself is separate from anything the artist has done in the subject matter, then separation is possible. Polanski would fall short under this scenario, as Rosemary’s Baby as a story and his later crimes echo one another to some extent. The violent act of oppressing and violating a woman’s/girl’s body is a disturbing similarity between Polanski’s fiction and his real life. This ties in with another statement made that discusses art’s intentions. One Reddit user writes, “In most cases, I would argue that art cannot be separated from artists. Art is grounded in the particular political and historical contexts that shape the artist’s motivations. Furthermore, the identity of the artist is fundamentally intertwined with the work as it is being created and with the message the piece is intended to convey. At its most basic level, all art is political, which means that endorsing art is endorsing certain messages”. This illustrates art’s ability to educate and communicate political messages, something that people argue for when aiming to show art’s importance further than entertainment. Polanski’s thought process of abusing and traumatising young females is made exemplified in Rosemary’s Baby; his crime is a ‘historical context that shapes’ his ‘motivations’ as ‘the artist’, thus this knowledge makes it difficult to separate his acts from the film to enjoy it.

One opinion response asserted their stance of separation being possible by heavily observing the artist themself, proposing “they can create things, but they can never create themselves, it doesn’t matter how hard they try, they will never exist inside the work”. This takes a slightly philosophical route in its claim that artists can never truly cement themselves inside their art and, thus, exert any morals or personal history on their part into the culture. This user believes that despite being a Kubrick film, The Shining does not contain any of Kubrick as a person; he does not exist within the film’s story or any credibility the film gains in entertainment and culture. They would propose Polanski isn’t Rosemary’s Baby as a film, he cannot place himself or his actions in the art he has created, and therefore, the film is free to consume and enjoy as a stand-alone piece of visual art. As what happens in online debates around such matters, counteractions and further arguments are made against this statement. Another user responds by pulling apart from this perspective, stating, “I’d beg to disagree with this. Surely the true meaning of art is self expression? Therefore the art is not just individual to the artist but also a reflection of some part of them. They do very much exist inside the artwork…But it’s still their work. It came from their mind and is therefore a portrayal of a selection of their thoughts”. This viewpoint relates to interpretations previously explored and is a solid counterclaim. Claiming Polanski’s actions do not exist within his art of Rosemary’s Baby is easily argued against when one acknowledges his later acts echo those carried out by the antagonist cult in the narrative; he exploited a female similar to them, one that was a child in fact. The film can simply and straightforwardly be explored and classified as a ‘reflection of some part’ of him. Therefore, it is made difficult to separate Rosemary’s Baby from its director’s crimes.

Similar to Twitter, Reddit has its very own film fan culture, where tributes to and opinions of films circulate and receive expansion from other users. Classic auteur directors such as Kubrick have a solid fanbase and connection with Reddit users, one posting a behind-the-scenes clip of his work on The Shining. The clip features Duvall, who, according to the poster, is being treated badly. As a result, a debate on whether his actions are justified continues in the comment section. One user claims Kubrick “was an asshole” and no one on set “deserved to be treated badly”, therefore showing their belief that Kubrick was wrong as well as illustrating emphasis on Kubrick as a person rather than an artist. However, another user counteracts with an emphasis on the final product of the film as a piece of art, stating, “yeah but you can argue her performance was brilliant because of Kubrick”. Here, Kubrick’s treatment towards Duvall is being argued as good because, in this user’s eyes, it ended up elevating her performance and, thus, elevating the overall art of the film. This argument not only justifies Kubrick’s controversial and unorthodox actions but praises them, attaching this praise to the art. This dynamic displays an interesting and straightforward conflict that dictates a large proportion of the debate, one side argues using and for observation of who the artist was, and the other does so with the art and what it ends up becoming. This illustrates how in the discussion of whether art and artist should be separated, the two are separated by the arguments. One side is displaying how Kubrick should be viewed as a person who was not the most appropriate to another, rather than some transcendent genius creator who shouldn’t be challenged, thus, showing criticism towards him. The other position just focuses on the art, implying the stance of separating The Shining as a film from its director and the actions that took place during its creation.

Polanski’s actions also come under scrutiny and condemnation on Reddit. One article shared on the site discussed the issue of Polanski still receiving Oscar nominations and wins, asking if it's moral to let such a person succeed and be awarded for what he creates. One comment took a collaborative stance, arguing, “those people who won because they worked on his movies do not deserve their wins to be credited to him. It’s their own hard work”, thus, arguing for Polanski to be separated from his art as the sole creator.

Attitudes displayed on Reddit accentuate this shift in attitudes towards Polanski as both a filmmaker and a person, ones that are shown as counter remarks when Polanski and his successes are mentioned. This is evident in another article being posted about the director, the title classifying him as an “acclaimed” creator by also mentioning how he is a “known” sex offender, which had an immediate response of “Acclaimed Sex Criminal and Known Director and Screenwriter”. This spin on the wording of the title operates, to the user, as prioritising what Polanski should be most known for and, thus, receive certain attention for. This directly represents the belief that Polanski should be separated from any appraisal credit he can receive for his art and instead should just receive condemnation for his crimes, therefore, demonstrating an inability to separate art from the artist as his crimes are too extreme. A following response also took a critical tone, outrageously asking, “Acclaimed? Whose acclaiming him now?” exemplifying how the knowledge of Polanski’s crimes overrides and compromises any praise he receives for his art in filmmaking. Lastly, one meme on Reddit featured a picture of someone sitting in a pose that implies waiting, captioned with the statement, “me waiting for Roman polanski death soo i can finally buy Rosemary baby on DVD”. This joke represents issues and arguments previously and consistently explored in any written discussion on the separating art from the artist debate. The user is making jokes about how some art consumers choose to wait for a problematic creator’s passing so they can freely engage with their art, illustrating a route to a moral high ground in the matter by avoiding financially benefitting the artist.

YouTube provides diverse opinions and discussions within and under the videos posted there by users. After public shifts in attitudes towards engaging with art created by someone who displays a coloured moral compass, creators on the platform have compiled examples, research and their own interpretations in videos on the matter. One video titled ‘Can You Separate Art From The Artist?” posted by Rowan Ellis, serves as an invitation for her subscribers or any other users to share their feelings and learn from others. Ellis provides the context of artists who have been morally questionable but have created enjoyable art, across numerous artistic mediums other than film, alongside prompts of both sides, such as financial aid or personal interpretation of an art piece. The responses to her video were a diverse landscape as some agreed you can while others disagreed, and some admitted to being unsure and unable to pick a side. One of the top comments stated, “My instinctive answer is no because of how interconnected everything feels in life. It feels personal because humans are so centred on emotions in response. It’s such a nuanced question!”. This reply emphasises the huge personalised and emotional investment that comes as a reaction or association with art. As audiences sometimes interpret films as art to be personal extensions of their creators, the idea of separating the two becomes impossible. This is elevated when audiences consume art and, thus, invest their own emotions in it alongside those the artist felt when they created it. The user expands upon this idea in a later sentence of the same comment, “maybe when one person involved in the creation of the thing messes up, we see that one thing as forever tainted”, demonstrating the changed perception of art once knowledge of the artist is established. Essentially, this user is articulating how they come to associate the artwork’s image in the same vein as the artist’s immorality. They feel that the work becomes demolished and altered once the artist exemplifies unethical actions, thus, communicating a psychological reason as to why and how they cannot severe art from the artist.

This opinion is opposed by another user who establishes a stance of being unable to avoid artists who are completely ethical throughout their whole careers and life. They write, “I personally separate the art from the artist. Why? There’s so much art in the world that’s been produced by people that have done morally wrong things in their life.”, therefore, demonstrating the belief that you have to separate the two because problematic people create the majority of art, but art is essential to the culture. This viewpoint argues for art’s sake while submitting to a fatalistic tone when it comes to considering the artist and their actions. Under this perspective, one has to negotiate between art’s importance to society and to humans, in terms of both education and enjoyment, and the acts of its artist. You cannot escape controversy in artists, and you cannot ignore every piece of good art because of this consistent controversy. This comment argues for The Shining and Rosemary’s Baby as two widely acclaimed and artistically brilliant films, both exemplifying their genres and visual storytelling to a degree that has been considered a genius and master-level decades after release.

As expected, the substantial occurrence of a moral compass and ethical consideration provides counteraction to the signalling of what art means to and for us. Another user explains their answer that you can’t separate art from the artist, “I refuse to support people that are doing things that I consider morally bankrupt. Sometimes it sucks. Sometimes it means you have to cut out art you really love because you feel unable to support the artist morally”. Here, the tug of war between emphasis on art and emphasis on the artist is illustrated in the scenario of sacrificing art’s meaning and emotional value because the moral issues surrounding the artist prove to be too detrimental to one’s psyche when engagement is still given. This means Rosemary’s Baby, in spite of its status in American and horror filmmaking, would have to face the consequences of what its director did because the weight of his crimes hangs over the film to a great extent. This user addresses the hard-hitting and challenging process of not separating art from the artist; it is painful to cut off a piece of art one enjoyed and invested in emotionally because they are unable to forget the ill acts of its creator. However, for them personally, the compromise of ethics bears too strong and overrides this and, thus, leads to the stance of conjoining consuming art with supporting its creator. This stems from both the belief in personal expression in art and the financial elevation provided by consumption.

Other comments focused more on further questions to ask and consider when engaging in the debate. One user wrote as a response, “I think the question shouldn’t be ‘Can we separate art and author?’, but ‘Should we?’ I think the issue seems way more like a moral one than a theoretical one if you ask like that”, which echos previous interpretations explored when considering the ethical incorporations. It restructures the entire debate and any arguments made to be philosophical rather than alleged physical, as supported by the ethical landscape. Even if one can separate The Shining as a film from the events that took place on set, if the question is, can it be done, the question then moves to the placement of whether is it right to do that. This is proposed as another way of examining the debate as a whole. However, it can also be situated as the second stage if there is the decision that one can separate art from the artist. Another video posted by The Art Assignment titled ‘Love the Art, Hate the Artist’ also generated interesting discourse around the subject. The video addresses how “our reading of an artwork is always affected by the knowledge we either have or don’t have” about its conditions and its creator. It also voices “our own personal choice in the matter” and how audiences of art have a choice to engage with artwork under the knowledge of the artist. These ideas serve as a foundation for the viewers to build on and voice their own interpretations in the comments. One comment admits an opinion that there’s an inability to make a final decision as “this is one of those dilemmas that will never be satisfactorily resolved, but is really important to grapple with!”. This illustrates the struggle that resides within the discussion at hand; some feel these problems prove to be too large and unsolvable due to the dire tackling of morality at hand.

Another comment strategically proposes a compromise between the entertainment of art and the ethics of engaging with problematic artists, writing how “you can enjoy problematic art (or media) and problematic artists. The challenge is be honest with yourself and others and do not defend the problems or dismiss them”. Here, there is a distinct separation between engaging with and praising art one enjoys purely for what the art means and acknowledging that what the artist did is wrong and deserves condemnation. This means one can appreciate Rosemary’s Baby's mastery of filmmaking and other crafts, such as performances. However, one must distinguish how they separate this artistry from what Polanski did and also emphasise how one feels he must be held accountable for his crimes. It highlights how one can be free to consume and praise art as long as there is a clear and precise establishment of not defending anything immoral the artist did alongside creating the art. Furthermore, other users demonstrated a similar compromise between the two binaries as a means of settling the debate where both parties are satisfied. One comment states, “I personally agree that art should be viewed separately but I also think educating is important. We also shouldn’t separate what the artist has done and not highlight it when we’re talking about it”, an interpretation that pays attention to both the art and the actions. This illustrates that re-stating what the artist did wrong should be established in order to ensure education on the matter, something that is coincided with praise towards their art. This appears to be evident in conversations around The Shining, in which Kubrick’s treatment of Duvall is always mentioned and criticised in both academic and casual conversations surrounding the film. This underlining of Kubrick’s actions runs alongside praising the film’s visuals and generation of fear in audiences, showing that one can separate the high quality of the film as art and the unethical procedures that took place in creating it.

Overall, the internet displays some extreme stances on whether art can be separated from its artist, the majority of them aligning with the belief that you cannot and also that artists should face never-ending consequences for their immoral acts. Those who use the internet to express this opinion, whether the context is beginning a discussion or partaking in one, use tones that are sometimes tongue-in-cheek or overall humorous for dramatic effect. Interestingly enough, when compared to official written articulations on the matter, the opinions on the internet lack sophistication or direct intellect. However, the same effect is still present when observing the message being communicated. This implies that the meanings and interpretations are so profound and prevalent that no matter the tone or source of communication, one can still identify and engage with them. Users on sites such as Twitter or Reddit are still able to mirror the arguments and perspectives demonstrated in academic writings and rejuvenate them using different moods and formats. The majority of users are consistent in arguing art should not be separated due to the issue of personal expression in art, artists gaining financial advancement and ethical compromise. The time these perspectives are outlined exemplifies how contemporary attitudes signal mostly towards prioritising the ethics of whatever the situation is over the status of the artist or the overall art.

VI. Is There a Conclusion?

Toculminate, in light of all that has been highlighted during this evaluation, the debate of separating art from this artist has proved to be one that positions ethics, economics, entertainment and education against one another as stances of argument. With these serving as ammo on either side, art critics and consumers are challenged to find some common ground with the opposing side. Art of any medium is vital to society and culture. Its creation and imprint stand the test of time due to how people invest in it both emotionally and intellectually. This means it can move beyond who its creator is and what they have done once it is consumed and interpreted to such high-level countless times. However, the extreme presence of immorality on the artist’s part, especially if combined directly in the creation, can pull it back from such a high realm. In Kubrick’s case, his unethical behaviour weighs on The Shining in a negative personal way. This is because of the breakdown he pulled from Duvall to create the emotions necessary for her character at certain stages. However, the art was not worth such personal exploitation. In order to find a compromise, critics and consumers cannot ignore or dismiss what Kubrick did during filming and how it was wrong, yet, they can still praise The Shining for the well-made film that it is. It is possible to address both the positive residing within the art and the negative present in the artist’s methods or personal life. One does not have to choose in a black or white manner, nor have to sacrifice a piece of artwork they invested with or learnt from because its creator compromised their moral compass, as long as there is established awareness of the latter. Once an artwork of any medium has been consumed and had attention drawn to it through praise and recommendation, the artist can build their finances, which can protect them from consequences due to the power handed. This is evident when looking at Polanski, who can shield himself from a prison sentence because of the money he gains when Rosemary’s Baby is purchased. This outlines the compromise between morality and enjoying art, with the issue of money serving as the overall issue. However, this can also be combated and solved, as there are alternate methods to engaging with the film via purchasing, such as borrowing a copy from public libraries. One can also demonstrate the grey matter perspective by assuring a critique of Polanski’s crimes is made when praising his work. Essentially, make sure Polanski never escapes condemnation for his actions alongside praise for his craft, separating his stance as an artist to allow applause from his stance as a human who has done unforgivable crimes.

An overall addition I have concluded after my research is the acknowledged importance of and need for art, established on either side of the debate. Consumers who have written their stance voice how they feel a sense of guilt when engaging with art made by a controversial figure, something that has to derive from a strong attachment to the work. Art’s ability to entertain, educate and create emotion is what negotiates the unprincipled behaviour exemplified by the artist, thus, preventing an immediate censoring of both itself and its creator. In the case of film, the artistry, demonstrated in both stories and visuals, has multi-purposes of representing and influencing society, as well as providing catharsis for spectators. Films have the power to represent us and others. Thus, we learn about ourselves and those around us. Their positioning in the art realm is what speaks to audiences. In most cases, films become separated from their director because of the excessive emotional investment directed towards them from these spectators. This means a film can become an extension and expression of a watcher, not just the director. Essentially, I have concluded that a shared solution to this debate is far from being found. The dilemma of choosing between an artist’s emotional and educational impact or the alleged mislaying of morals poses a clash between emotional and rational approaches in responses. These two perspectives struggle to be compromised, thus, cementing the inability to find common ground. With contemporary society’s search for progression as advocated through extreme liberalism, art’s status in culture will remain compromised if its creator behaved immorally.

VII. Bibliography

Academic Journals and Articles

Protecting the Bookshelf: Reading at the Intersection of Art and Morality by Elizabeth (Ellie) Schaffer, A thesis presented for the B.A. degree with Honors in The Department of English University of Michigan Winter 2019

Shelley Duvall’s traumatic experience while shooting Stanley Kubrick's film 'The Shining', Debadrita Sur, Far Out Magazine, 2021

Roman Polanski Accused of 1975 Rape, Liz Alderman and Elian Peltier, The New York Times, Nov 9 2019

Can we separate art from the artist?, Eden Mor, The Daily Free Press, November 30 2021

Opinion: You can't separate art from the artist, Ella Adams, The Appalachian, Apil 2021

Should we separate art from the artist?. Reid Corley, The Triton Times, May 2019

Separating Art from the Artist: A Guide to a Consistent Principle, Ashley Griffin, OnStageBlog, March 2021

What Do We Do When The Art We Love Was Created By A Monster? Constance Grady, 2018

Authorship in Cinema: Author & Reader. Başak Demiray, CINEJ Cinema Journal. 4. 4. (2015).

A Case Study on Film Authorship: Exploring the Theoretical and Practical Sides in Film Production David Tregde* Media Arts and Entertainment Elon University, 2013

On the impossibility of separating art from artist, Jacob Kupperman, The Stanford Daily, October 27 2017

Good art by bad people: Why it shouldn’t be thrown away, Russell Smith, The Globe and Mail, November 16 2017

Separating art from the artist, Noah Jeane, The Boar, October 12 2021

Online Sites

Twitter

Reddit Pages

Letterboxd Reviews of The Shining, Rosemary’s Baby, and The Pianist

Youtube

#film criticism #film debate #debate #separating art from artist #the shining #rosemary's baby #roman polanski #stanley kubrick #shelley duvall #film critic #film essay #film #movies #cinema

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sumukhcomedy · 2 years ago

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The Quiet Alcoholic

On April 25, 2015, I stopped drinking alcohol. It seems an essential thing for people who give up something so negative that was a huge part of their identity to recognize such a date and hold it to such high importance. Clearly, I remember the date. Whether I recognize it enough or cheer myself on as a result of it is my own choice. I’d prefer to be quiet about it. That is essentially who I am. That is essentially why I even drank in the first place.

A month after I stopped drinking, my friends Matt and Kristina got married. Weddings are interesting because it’s the greatest event ever for the drinker. Open bar, an excuse to be drunk, an excuse to celebrate, an excuse to be completely out of your element and it’s acceptable. And, there I was, at a wedding, an event that has always made me uncomfortable no matter how happy I am for the couple, having to not even engage in the one thing that could make me escape that total lack of comfort. I overjoyed at the after dinner coffee just so I could get some form of a stimulant. I enjoyed the wedding for as much as my personality could enjoy it but the bigger win was not succumbing to alcohol around a group of friends that I always had drank alcohol with.

With the release of my album in the late summer of 2015, I decided to go on tour as well, hopping in my car and doing shows in cities throughout the Midwest and the South. It was a wonderful experience for the sake of my love of comedy but also an immense challenge given my entire existence in comedy had intermingled with alcohol. I once again avoided drinking despite it being all around me.

I am naturally a quiet person. I was, at one point in my life, painfully shy. There are so many times in life that I was growing up that I did not like myself. I did not like who I was. I found myself dull. I found myself boring. Society saw me as lower for a variety of reasons and I was willing to succumb to that because I was already chemically depressed anyway.

In our society and certainly in the generation I was a part of, we were presented with alcohol as that opportunity to escape ourselves. It was an opportunity to be sillier, to be funnier, to be dumber, and it was not only accepted but perhaps praised in college and in your early 20s.

By the time I was involved in stand-up comedy, at 21, that was an environment even more absurd than any college experience. I was never interested in a fraternity despite attending a college so heavily into Greek life, but stand-up comedy was like a new fraternity where I was most accepted. It was a fraternity of people obsessed with comedy, of nerds, of writers, of individuals attempting to just cultivate something intelligent for the benefit of others. In Columbus, where at the time at least it was very much a drinking culture, combined with stand-up comedy, another drinking culture, it was the perfect combination for casual drinking problems to develop.

Stand-up comedy allowed me to gain an acceptance I hadn’t anywhere else. But it still was layered in a social component as well as a need to feel approved. Drinking was there to really hit on both of those elements. Not only did it work well in the escapism of the world of comedy, it also allowed me to escape myself – a person I couldn’t stand privately to deal with.

It’s been almost 8 years and the desire to drink for me is gone but it isn’t really. What I mean by that is I don’t yearn for the taste of an IPA because I love the taste of IPAs. If I yearn for alcohol, it’s because the root of the problem that led me to drink still exists and it may never go away. I’m addressing it as I have for the past 8 years. I’m improving on it. But it’s still there. All I can hang my hat on is the self-awareness I have and trying my best to continue to improve on that.

I don’t want to drink but it’s funny what makes me miss drinking. Sometimes it is as simple as characters on TV shows like Danny Rayburn on Bloodline or Armond on The White Lotus. It isn’t that these characters are admirable at all as they feed into their addictions through their own mental health issues. It’s my jealousy that they even pursue the option. It’s the fact they have that outlet for escape. I don’t have that anymore. I can fill it in other ways but nothing will fill it the way alcohol did – to fill it in a way that so changes your mind that you are no longer even yourself anymore. It’s horrible of course. But it’s a unique, special kind of horrible. A horrible that was still somehow acceptable when you’re high-functioning and had a strong enough control over it like I did. But now the control is in not doing it at all. That is where all my energy and strength goes. Understandably, even 8 years later, as strong as I can be, I also feel just as lost from that void.

Dealing with ourselves is interesting. On a personal level, I have a lot of confidence in myself and that I am intelligent. I know that I can deliver a great stand-up comedy performance for a variety of different audiences. I know that I am good at my job. I am proud of what I can and am able to represent to the public. Yet, I am still depressed. I still am, at my core, a quiet, lonely person. I still have a dark mind. It is the imbalance that naturally exists under the layer of public strength.

So many times I see people comment (particularly following an unexpected death) about how someone led their life and appeared to be so happy. This is even more obvious in our current times where social media allows and encourages us to express the most positive aspects to our lives and instills upon us to not even expose the negative for fear of its effects on our public persona. But, on a personal level, these are the exact issues to what I, “the quiet comedian” or “quiet alcoholic,” deal with. I’m sick of lying in just the most common, ridiculous ways to the world.

My friend and fellow comedian Andie Main once said to me that I have “resting existential crisis face.” This may have been a more accurate observation that any of the therapists I’ve been to over the past decade have provided me. In one sense, it’s very funny, but in another sense, I’m proud of that comment because it’s accurate to who I am. It’s an indication that I’m not lying to the world. It’s an indication that I’m being who I am. I can no longer provide fraudulent laughter or smiling to situations in the same way others do when it just isn’t necessary and isn’t who I am. At the same time, I can’t be lauded for having given up alcohol, but then be asked to interact with myself and others in the same way that I always had been before when I was using it. This is the part of the rebirth and re-establishment of identity that makes April 25, 2015 apparently an important day. I have to not only work to accept myself as quiet, analytical, and unemotional at times but have to attempt the public to accept that as well.

The very nature of what led me to drink was that I was quiet. In our social constructs, those that are more vocal are rewarded. So, I drank. I drank to be more vocal, to feel more accepted, to have something to help me to be more social. It all came from the fact that no one wants to be around the quiet person. People associate themselves with the life of the party, not the corner of the party. Alcohol helped me to escape the corner and grow the confidence to be the life up until my own self-realization that becoming the life for me could lead very quickly to being the death.

I was on my friend Josh Gandee’s wonderful podcast, “no proof.” At one point, we discussed the term, “alcoholic,” and the comfort level with considering one’s self as one and that it never goes away from you. On a personal level, I’m not sure I care either way because our society’s impression of “alcoholic” is all screwed up. By scientific and numbers-terms, probably every single person that was my friend in comedy in Columbus in the 2000s and 2010s were alcoholics but whether they chose to address it or not was up to them. It’s not as if they are alone because alcoholic behavior was and is just seemingly acceptable and goes unnoticed in so many professions. But when we think of “alcoholic,” we think of destroyers: destroyers of their own lives, of other’s lives, of DUIs, of embarrassments, the list goes on and on. That exists but there is a lot more quiet suffering going on as well. I didn’t go to Alcoholics Anonymous as my way to get sober but, at some of my lowest points, I did attend a couple meetings in L.A. simply to gain perspective for myself. Am I an alcoholic? Am I no longer an alcoholic? Was I ever an alcoholic? Who gives a shit other than me? What I had was a negative relationship with alcohol by my standards that led me to stop. The labeling really doesn’t matter as long as you remove yourself from the problem and address your issues in a positive way. So, as I use the phrase “quiet alcoholic” here, it’s not meant to define anything other than to speak to a large segment of the population who simply go through their depression or their addiction without the fanfare of how some interact with it or how society looks to depict it.

There is a thought as to whether alcohol can be moderated by someone who once had an abusive relationship with it. That’s up to each person to decide but that isn’t for me. Alcohol was escapism from myself and an escapism to an extreme. There is no moderate escapism for a man who does not like himself and wishes to fully avoid himself and his issues. So there is no moderate option. It’s absurd to me. Either I’m in or out. And, in order to really face myself, I must be out.

2022 has been a challenging and strange year for me to say the least. I could have easily relapsed. No one needed to know. Not sure anyone other than those closest to me would have even cared. But, with any of this, it ultimately comes back to one person really caring: one’s self. In the end, that’s all we truly have. There aren’t enough social media likes to make up for your own perception of yourself, your own ability to deal with yourself, your own path to find happiness.

So, I press on, with the daily challenge of dealing with myself, finding the happiness in myself, finding how I should be within the society that has been given to us. In the past, I drank to cope and feel accepted by that society. Now, I instead embrace who I am. I try to accept my natural being instead of opposing it. I learn to love the quiet even if it means privately facing that personal depression head-on every single day.

#depression #drinking #alcoholism #alcoholic #sobriety #anxiety #quiet #shyness #shy #introvert #mental health #addiction #high functioning alcoholism

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zealouswitchwerewolf · 2 months ago

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It's made even more frustrating (for normal muggers/criminals) because he doesn't even carry anything valuable (he phases his stuff through his body so they don't find it or puts it in a pocket dimension or something).

Danny can also feel the bats following him (whether it is because they're liminal or because he can feel the stares or wtv) and it contributes to the confusion because what if they were contacted by the GIW? Why else would they show any interest now? (He didn't notice the joker stint thing, it was just another Tuesday for him). Danny decides to give them the benefit of the doubt while not making it easy on them. Cue him out-stealthing all the bats, telling them different concerning stories from his childhood (Danny, in his mind:"see, I'm just as human as you and just because I'm a ghost doesn't mean I'm not sentient. I had a very normal childhood, like everyone" the bats: 😳😳😳 this poor kid was tortured so badly he decided it would be easier to play dead than deal with it? Is this some messed meta abilities? I don't even want to know how it activated), pranking them every once in a while, and even pretending to be dead once or twice at the beginning to see if he could shake them off with that.

Needless to say, the bats are concerned™, they don't know anything about Danny except for his crazy stories and his play-dead tendencies, they start suspecting he's maybe part of the LoA because no one without training should be able to lose them effortlessly. On the other hand, Danny is having the time of his life. He found people that can almost keep up with him (without power but wtv), they listen to all his stories and are great conversationalists, plus they seem to have decided to protect him (as unnecessary as it is) out of their disguises (their liminal signature is the same so Danny knows who they are but he won't tell cause being a hero is hard and having a secret identity is important and he won't ruin it for them) by hanging out with him in turns. Danny appreciates the company, and when he doesn't he just sneaks out, although Batman keeps brooding in corners while looking creepy in and out of his suit and projecting all his feelings and thoughts so hard Danny would almost consider him a ghost.

It's all fun and games until they find themselves in an unsolvable situation where the bats have been incapacitated but not unconscious and Danny goes 🤷🏻‍♂️ it's not like they don't already know my identity (they definitely don't) and deals with the huge threat (thinking some Eldritch magic thing) without holding back and is finished almost immediately, they didn't even have to wait for the reinforcements they asked for to the league. Even Superman wasn't fast enough to get there before Danny dealt with the threat like it was nothing. Suddenly the bats have a whole new set of questions for Danny and Danny is confused because "didn't you start following me because of that?" Which is when the bats find out about the anti-ecto acts and the GIW and how Danny thought that because the JL worked with the government, they'd all side with them. The acts are repelled within days. Batman has a headache.

DPxDC Danny the Guy Who Won't Die

He lives in Gotham, and he is just A Guy. Nothing weird about him, he's just there to study/work/help Lady Gotham to lift her curse/on vacation with Sam. Point is, he is not there to cause trouble and there's no GIW on his tail. Just a dude living his (after)life.

And Gotham, being Gotham, still finds a way to be annoying. There are mugging attempts, robbery, Rogues running around. Only Danny really doesn't want to deal with any of it.

Now there's a dilemma. If he uses his powers to fight, it will sooner or later come to Bats' attention. And if he fights as a human, it will also alert some of the Bats since he doesn't really do a great job at keeping his power levels low. Not to mention the fact he is really not enthusiastic about accidentally punching someone hard enough he sends them to a hospital.

What does he do instead? He pulls the 'I guess I'll die' act.

So every time he is attacked, he just plays dead. The mugger shot him in the chest? He falls down and stops breathing. Caught up in the middle of a Poison Ivy attack? Skewers himself on the vine and goes lax. Scarecrow's Fear Gas? Very dramatically chokes himself and plays a corpse. He makes sure to disappear before any ambulances arrive later, and it all goes well for a few months - he is just a casualty, who cares, really - until one day, he runs into that same mugger who shot him in the chest a while ago.

The man does a double take. Danny doesn't notice - he's been mugged so many times, who has the brain capacity to remember all of those fuckers. But the rumor goes out anyway.

A guy-who-won't-die. It's more of a city legend, really, and the Bats don't give it much thought since, well, it sounds stupid and not very important. A rumor of some man who was shot dead and then showed up like nothing happened? Yeah, it's probably because the mugger didn't check if he was actually dead. That happens. Maybe it wasn't even the same man, Gotham is a big city. If anything, hey, at least that was one less casualty? That's a good thing.

That is, until one day, they show up to Joker's hostage situation and witness the clown screaming at one of the hostages. He is so enraged he is shaking, spit flying out of his mouth, and, contrary to the usual Joker's evil sneers and maniacal laughter, he seems just... furious. But, like, the normal-human-level furious. The 'I just lost the last ounce of patience with you' furious.

"Don't you look away from me, you think I don't remember you?! Na-ah, I do. You were the one I drowned in the shark tank last week! And you were the one run through the chainsaw trap two weeks before that! And you were in the guillotine!!! I saw your fucking head get deattached from your body, how the fuck are you here again?!"

And the guy he is screaming at just looks at him, confused and incomprehensive.

"Um, I'm pretty sure I'd remember getting my head cut off, you know? So, err, wrong guy."

"Wrong guy my fucking ass-"

Joker is so distracted by his screaming match that it makes it almost too easy for the Bats to fight him down and drag to Arkham. Yet, a few of them get just a bit suspicious.

Now, imagine all the shenanigans when they try keeping a watch on Danny the Won't Die Guy.

#danny phantom #dc x dp #dpxdc #batman #danny refuses to die #the bats are mostly confused

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yellowocaballero · 2 years ago

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Iron Fist is Kinda Weird

Or: How do we talk about talking about social justice?

I have a diseased brain poisoned from reading comic books since elementary school, and I think it's fun to look at bad things and wonder why they're bad. I ended up writing Danny Rand AKA The Immortal Iron Fist for my Moon Knight fic series and I got so deep into researching him and the Heroes For Hire that he began to interest me. I ended up having a lot of opinions about it, things went out of hand again, I wrote a very weird Iron Fist story, and I'm officially giving up and putting my thoughts down about the character.

TL;DR: Iron Fist's history, character, and most notable relationship has an intrinsic relationship with race that really shouldn't be ignored, but the consistent framing of the character is highly revealing of the assumed context of media about social issues.

Yeah, there's some stuff to talk about. Rest under the cut. I want to make a giant disclaimer here that I am speaking from the perspective of the origins and histories of the characters, and that I am sourcing from the 1970s-1980s Heroes For Hire comic.

Unfortunately Important History

In 1974 comic book executives realized that martial arts movies were highly popular among teenage boys and were making a lot of money. Similarly, the other comic book execs across the hall were also realizing that Blaxploitation movies were also super hot right now. Thus, Iron Fist and Luke Cage were born. With this identical genesis, it's fitting that they ended up so tightly paired.

Thanks in part to the martial arts movies and the booming Hong Kong and Japanese industries, Orientalism was at a huge high America. Probably highest since the 1920s when the whole archeology thing and movies with dancing women were really taking off. TV shows like Kung Fu, about a man who wandered around knowing kung fu, were about the glories of kung fu and featuring a half-white half-Asian man played by a white man. Similarly, Blaxpoitation movies (which I know relatively little about besides the fact that the NAACP hated it, so that's probably the main takeaway here) were probably the first American film genre predominantly featuring Black people. Blaxploitation films...talked about Black issues...kind of...in a way, and you can see that thread in Luke Cage. The main thing you need to know about Luke Cage was that Dwayne McDuffie, one of the founders of the imprint featuring the only comics that actually deserve to talk about race (DC you neutered Static Shock), hated him. The background for these guys and the cultural & media landscape that gave birth to them is important, but you mostly just need to get that they were born from an American voyeuristic fascination with sensationalized depictions of other cultures.

Frog (Luke) and Toad (Danny) Are Friends

To their credit (?), they did eventually realize this about themselves, and Danny and Luke's strong friendship was characterized by their polar opposite backgrounds. Danny had been adopted at nine years old by the mystical Oriental city of kung fu etc, became the specialest little white boy and harnessed his chi to become the hero of K'un Lun, and travelled back to America in a revenge quest to find his father's killer and avenge him and inherit a fuckton of money. Luke was in a gang and then prison and he's very bitter about the prison industrial complex. They're good friends and a great team, but you can see repeatedly that no matter how seamlessly they work in the field they essentially can never understand each other. The most interesting parts of their relationship involve the push and pull of this disconnect, where Danny's naïve and clueless about America and Luke has to teach him about how the world works and the injustices that POC face. Luke teaches Danny about racism and checks his privilege like a thousand times a day. Observe.

Danny doesn't know or give a shit about money so he cluelessly tells Luke that they are best friends, what's mine is yours! Luke's tetchy about it because of Blaxpoitation Baggage. Danny's offended and he doesn't know why, Luke's old wounds are reopened and he struggles to explain it. Frog and Toad have racial conflict.

Danny is, basically, the clueless white guy. The backstory panels highlight that: he was trained in kung fu in K'un Lun, and now he's swimming in money and privilege in America and Luke feels weird about it.

Look at the way Danny talks about himself - Danny talks about his life in K'un Lun as if he had gone to the weirdest boarding school of all time. He talks about K'un Lun from a distance, using words an American would use. Danny is the privileged, sheltered white guy.

He does not think of Asia as an actual home. He doesn't identify with it. Narratively and thematically, he is a white guy who grew up in a sheltered place learning kung fu and now he's Dazed And Confused in America struggling to connect with his best friend's very unsheltered experiences.

The conversations Danny has with Luke about race are held as a white person. It is Luke explaining racism to a white person over and over again. It is a white person's clueless privilege being knocked down a peg again and again. Danny could be from Antarctica or Mars and his relationship with Luke would be he same.

Wait, Why Would A Dynamic Entirely Around Race Never Engage With The Fact That One Party Grew Up In Asia

You tell me buddy!!!

Why! Why make this choice? It is RIGHT there! Why would a guy whose entire schtick is living in Fantasy Vaguely Tibet from ages 9-19 never once speak from that cultural perspective? Why flush all of that experience and perspective down the drain?

Why would Danny engage with the world as a privileged, clueless white guy? He was just a kid when he left America. He doesn't engage with these conversations with Luke as, "Wow, your weird American situation's fucked up", he engages with it as "That can't possibly be what America is like!". Like a white person. There is no difference between Danny and someone who never left their boarding school as a child.

Is this really the most interesting way to talk about race? The characters, by virtue of their history and genesis, are inherently about race. Why are we talking about it as a Black guy constantly educating a white guy instead of as a Black guy talking to a white guy who grew up in Fantasy Tibet? As a a product of capitalism to a product of Whatever K'un Lun's Fantasy Economy was. As a product of a highly racialized society to an aracialized society. As someone who's from an area of great cultural and racial diversity to someone who grew up in a racial and cultural monoculture.

Why does Danny not have a complex relationship with his own race? He was the only white guy around for ten years, that has to be kind of weird. How does he relate his adopted culture to his home one? How does he deal with the white privilege he does hold when he doesn't understand why he holds it? I can seriously go on. I absolutely did go on.

None of this makes any sense. And the only way it makes any sense if if you see that Luke & Danny's conversations about race are not actually conversations about race. They are Luke explaining racism to the reader. Danny is the audience stand-in. The audience is obviously American white guys, so Danny has to be white and engage with the entire thing as an American white guy would. As he audience stand-in Danny has to come from the same place and viewpoint as the assumed reader, so he has to come from a place of white privilege.

It sucks. Not every reader was a privileged white guy. Not every reader was white. This narrative decision, conscious or unconscious, cut off a lot of interesting choices at the kneecaps. Because there is a basic assumption that white audiences cannot relate to nonwhite characters, and that they are incapable of looking through another's eyes and learning from their perspective.

How Do We Talk About Talking About Race?

Why should we care that Iron Fist is uninteresting and bad? This is not news. The premise has always been vaguely racist and boring. I've read some pretty nifty Iron Fists in my time and there are a fair handful of good Iron Fist comics, but the very root of the character is Orientalist. This Dances With Wolves style of 'story about POC but the lead has to be white or white people won't watch it' scenario is very old hat.

Heroes For Hire is interested in race. Luke Cage & Iron Fist are characterized by race. Their writers can admit this or not, but it's true. At its best, this inherent disconnect opens up the comics for potentially interesting breakdowns of racial dynamics, prejudice, the prison industrial complex, privilege, and American society. Luke & Danny talk about everything from capitalism to crime. Pretty reliably, the comic tends to actually try.

But all of these conversations are fixed through a white gaze. Luke talks through a white gaze, Danny's characterized by a white gaze, and these conversations are written with the white audience as the implied constant observers. At a certain point it never really feels like two different perspectives clashing and changing - just one perspective, talking about two different issues from both sides of its mouth.

I have mixed feelings on #ownvoices, but I think this is what people mean when they talk about it. There is a provincial, reductionist scope of perspectives allowed into the conversations Heroes For Hire holds, and although that's not a crime it's abjectly disappointing when compared against the interesting stories that could be told.

I haven't read a modern Iron Fist comic in like ten years, and the last time I read Heroes For Hire was during the cursed Civil War situation. I really don't know if modern Heroes For Hire and Danny & Luke are still like this. They probably aren't! But the same problems probably still underlie the two characters, and their origins will always occupy this strange space.

TL;DR: Read Milestone comics. Start with Static and move to Icon & Rocket. These are the only comics about race people should read. Look up their history sometime, it's fascinating. Ignore Luke Cage & Iron Fist. Good god.

#my writing #iron fist #luke cage #danny rand #heroes for hire #it was all RIGHT HERE and they didnt DO ANYTHING WITH IT #i got pissed off and decided to. do something with it #I think when you make it so that danny doesn't remember america #and change danny from #weirdest boarding school member of all time #into #guy who is from this country #more interesting stuff opens up. if ur not a coward.

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ghostly-shenanigans-in-progress · 4 years ago

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BNHA X DP Crossover HCs

After the long wait and finals, here are my ideas for all the quirks/occupations and other concepts I devised for the DP characters in the BNHA universe. This was just for fun and for inspiration towards others interested in this crossover au in general.

Tagging the people that were looking forward to this post based on the replies: @qoinq-qhost, @floralflowerpower, @tgfangirl4eva @goodfish-bowl, @whitehairglowinggreeneyedcrush and more.

Anyways, happy reading, folks!

Mr. Lancer

Hero name: Mr. Scholastic

Quirk: Bookworm

Involves his iconic usage of literature titles & quotes for swears to become abilities corresponding to the novel’s contents/themes. Course, he is limited to only books he has read and can quote accurately. Additionally, his voice gets very raspy past two or three quotes as well.

Occupation: Homeroom Teacher for Class 1- A; He’s very dedicated to his new students and teaching the fundamentals of being a pro hero and more! Course, I don’t think his chamomile tea with a wedge of lemon is enough to help him relax from his students (*cough* Danny, Tucker and Poindexter) from their antics at times.

Danny

Hero name: Phantom

Quirk: Ghost core (Ok, @coffeecakecafe had the best name for this one gotta give credit here)

Able to do anything a ghost is perceived to do. Go through walls, disappear and fly. This is a one of a kind quirk as it was obtained from Danny’s old quirk being altered by a machine his parents made that would repurpose/alter an individual’s quirk based on their past family members' own metahuman genetics.

Danny is doing his best and trying to understand his new quirk without causing too much attention to himself while doing so but it seems like its been doing the opposite as of late. Thankfully, he won’t be doing it alone with all his classmates around to help him!

Sam

Hero Name: Black Dahlia

Quirk: Overgrown

Able to create any plant that she knows the biological makeup and content of in almost any environment. However, it is important for her to drink lots of nutrient rich water and take in enough sun if she plans to create larger versions of these plants.

Tucker

Hero name: Tech Master

Quirk: Tech Core

Located on his chest/heart area is a special energy core capable of powering electronics at a rate faster than anything made-man could ever hope to achieve. As a kid, Tucker would tinker away in his family’s garage on a suit that would harness his power to the fullest extent and lead a new era of support tech in the hero world.

Valerie

Hero name: Red Huntress

Quirk: Electromagnetism (Someone I’ve been trying to find their post on my blog had posted this idea and I fell in love with it ever since)

She’s like Static Shock but with a dash of magenta/ruby lasers she can create through focusing her electromagnetism through her finger tips. She is an expert with her quirk and has the best handle of her quirk than most of her peers. She is the most frequent visitor in the support equipment workshop next to Tucker, Poindexter and Danny. It’s how she built the hoverboard she has in the show that utilizes her electromagnetic abilities for both offensive and defensive maneuvers. (Also, I enjoy the idea that Bullet is Val’s uncle on her mom’s side and is her biggest supporter alongside her dad, Damien Gray).

Jazz

Quirk: Serenity

Helps calm individuals and give them a sense of safety/security when they’re around her in a 10 feet radius. Though, anyone out of range cannot be affected by her quirk and she needs to be conscious in order to use it.

She planned on becoming a pro hero but felt her powers were best suited for her dream profession as a psychologist. She has used her quirk a lot when Danny was overwhelmed with his studies prior to UA. Course, a phone call and sibling chat over the phone certainly does the job for Danny now when it comes to preparing material for exams. (Course, its up to you guys to decide)

Dash

Hero name: Rager

Quirk: Strength Magnification

Improves his physique and stamina by a large percentage for a set amount of time. Needs to be careful of how much/long he magnifies his body or else his body will become immensely sore.

Kwan

Hero name: Rallier

Quirk: Team Rally (50/50)

Able to duplicate himself 3-4 times while being able to power-up allies’ quirks or stamina with a rally chant to help the team. The more duplicates there are the rally effect multiplies/stacks on the individual but it can lead to dangerous outcomes for their quirk output.

Kwan is the class representative for 1-A, he’s the best at the job and was more than thrilled to be the one leading his class in more ways than one.

Paulina

Hero name: Enchantress

Quirk: Charm

If the opponent is flustered by her taunts or flirting, their vision will become altered and start seeing things that are not there. It works better on men than women and the opponent can snap out of it with enough willpower or if they’re not interested in her.

Star

Hero name: Ms. Meteorite

Quirk: Comet

Similar to Gran Torino’s Jet quirk except faster and she can create an explosive impact on where she lands. Similar to a meteorite landing on earth, she also learns to use this as a long distance move by punching fast enough as she descends to create wind pressure punches.

Poindexter

Hero name: Tex (like in Tex Avery; Danny gave him the idea!)

Quirk: Slapstick

His appearance is black and white just like an old timey cartoon character as well as having the durability and cartoon powers of one. However, his quirk can only work as long as what he does with it is funny in the circumstance it’s used for. Sort of like “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” rules in a sense.

Sidney is part of Class 1-A just saying, I don’t care, this is Poindexter’s time to shine here to be the coolest/funniest person in the class. Also, Tucker’s most loyal friend/tester for new support items.

Wes Weston

Hero name: Vigilance

Quirk: Deduction

He is able to deduct people’s identities to flaws/weak points for him to use against them and exploit against problems.

Class 1-B Representative and the most annoying/terrifying person that Danny has dealt with in his life. He was able to figure out that Danny’s quirk is not his own or more so that it's not natural and takes every opportunity to state this regardless if anyone is listening or not.

Amber Mclain

Hero Name: Ember

Quirk: Fiery voice (50/50)

Her quirk uses the vibrations in her sining voice to conduct intense heat waves onto opponents or utilize to rumble the structures around here and even put out the flames from her quirk. Its like a combination of Present Mic and Endevours quirk but it leaves her with a strained or inflamed vocal cords with overuse.

Third year student or an upcoming rock star that has certainly gain huge popularity after her song “Remember” was a nationwide hit amongst the younger generation. She’s striving to be the top hero while making her next hit to become the 1# song on the listings.

Dani

Hero name: Phantwo (lol jk; unsure what her name would be)

Quirk: Poltergeist

Similar to Danny’s quirk “Ghost”, except she has the additional ability to melt herself to a slimy puddle and use her ectoplasmic slime to trap or surprise opponents.

Clockwork

Hero Name: Clockwork

Quirk: Time Keeper

Clockwork’s quirk allows him to stop time for 5 to 15 minutes and be able to rewind it in the same amount of time. It can be one to multiple objects as long as he touches them in order to interact with them.

Principle of UA in this au. He’s quite a reserved man but still manages to visit and congregate with students throughout the school during lunch period.

Flynn Fenton/Flynn Walker

Hero Name: The Green Knight

Quirk: Mineralization

His quirk allows him to manipulate the minerals and inorganic materials in the atmosphere to create into crystalized constructs that are almost stronger than diamond. Luckily, the crystals have no value so he doesn’t have to worry about that aspect of his quirk. He does have to worry about his skin becoming dried out as a result of his quirk usage.

Flynn is a third year student that loves to check up on his cousin, Danny, any chance he gets bc of the amount of work he does with his internships.

James Walker (or James W. Hausermann)

Hero name: Warden Wraith

Quirk: Plasma Apparatus

His quirk ionizes the electrolytes in the blood system into plasma. His entire body is composed of plasma giving him his skeletal appearance. He can create plasma chains, teleport from point A to B and more as long as he focuses and has enough energy at use. Course, he can have minor to severe dehydration and imbalance in his electrolyte levels from overuse.

Occupation: CEO of an infrastructure security company/Provisional License Examiner just like Gang Orca.The ghost prison guards become his backup/helpers for the exam phases. (They’re just trained stuntmen with combat or military experience for the occasion).

Also, I like to think Walker has kids in this au who are in the Class 1-A group; they’re not hard to spot they take after their father with their skeletal complexion.

Skulker

Villain name: Quirk Hunter

Quirk: Tracker

The moment Skulker makes eye contact with his target he will be able to hunt them down and find them anywhere no matter how good they are at covering their tracks. He can lock on to only one target, but he will be able to know their heart beat, quirk, be able to place a tracking/scent line that only he can see and will lead him to his target’s location. It lasts for over a day or a half.

Occupation: Skulker is known for capturing, info-detailing or “retiring” newcomer pros or specific quirk users for his clients that pay him handsomely for their targets, dead or alive. Thanks to Vlad, Danny was strictly intended to be captured alive by Skulker but sometimes he gets too thrilled by the hunt to not have a memento. Trust me, it's more of a dangerous

Nicolai Technus

Villain Name: Technus

Quirk: Technopathy

A genius in his own right, even if he’s a little crazy, with the best ability possible for a man of science and innovation. As long as he knows the makeup and attributes of the machine, Technus is able to completely repurpose or change a machine’s qualities for offensive and defensive qualities. Whenever that be for a mech suit or hacking a high tech system for entry, he’s able to do it as long as he knows what it is and how it functions. An example is repurposing a slot machine into a submachine gun that shoots coins at the target.

Vlad Masters

Name: Vlad Plasmius

Quirk: Vampire

Can do anything a vampire can supposedly do. However, he was able to manifest an additional aspect of this quirk which is the ability to copy any quirk users ability. Based on the type of blood he ingests decides the amount of time he can use the copied quirk for.

Occupation: CEO of his own hero firm, he is extremely selective with the interns he has that there is a major waitlist to be even consider for Masters Inc. Course, imagine the surprise Danny must of felt when he received an offer from Vlad right off the bat after the Sports festival.

Bruce Guiles (Bullet)

Hero Name: Bullet

Quirk: Sphyraena or Chimera Fish

Able to do anything a barracuda can do or the quirk is a 50/50 mutant quirk in which he has both the traits of a barracuda, Chimaeras and a touch of piranha from his parents being of one of these fish species hence Chimera. Bullet can do anything those fish can do overall but he can’t go too long without hydration from water. Water quality and its oxygen content also affect his abilities by a noticeable percentage but he still remains quite formidable as a quirk user.

Occupation: Captain of a coast guard team, he’s a strict military man with an amazing record of saving people from any disasters both on land and sea. Him and Walker are best buddies ever since they went to school together.

Vortex

Hero Name: Vortex

Quirk: Storm Warning

Vortex can utilize any variation of a natural disaster depending on the environment he’s in. Hurricanes, tornadoes, thunderstorms, you name it he can create it for his use. However, despite his amazing control over his quirk it is still possible for him to create these disasters if he lost control or magnify another pre-existing one if he loses focus.

Occupation: Storm-chaser/Forecaster; His control and knowledge in combating/predicting these natural disasters has led to him to be part of a storm chasing crew and they’re the best in helping disaster prevention teams evacuate citizens as a result.

Petra Eris

Hero name: Pandora

Quirk: Butterfly Effect

Can manipulate or prevent a chaotic event to happen if she was in proximity and present to prevent it to happen. Or even give a little chaos to the opponent to deal with during battle.

One of the top ten heroes and most beloved heroes in the country. She is the best strategist in any team and has a way to predict any event before they happen given the necessity of it for her quirk to work in her favor.

Johnny

Vigilante name: Johnny 13

Quirk: Unlucky

Johnny manifests his bad luck into a shadow that will latch onto opponents and cause unfortunate events to occur more for that individual as a result. However, the shadow cannot exist in complete sunlight; it can only remain if there are already shadows in his general area or it’s nighttime and its effects are strongest at that time obviously.

Occupation: Johnny is the leader of a biker gang or de-facto leader of said biker gang who loves to raise hell and helping folks that need saving whenever he’s around or is up to the task. Kitty tags along with him to help him out of jams and bc she loves him. :3

Kitty

Vigilante name: Kitty

Quirk: Lovesick

Kitty sends a smooch towards her opponent which if it makes contact causes the individual to have nausea or become disoriented for around 10 minutes. It can also have a chance of lasting longer if the individual was sort of infatuated with her regardless of gender.

Pariah Dark

Villain name: King Pariah

Quirk: Ultimate Adaptation

Similar to all for one except with the unpredictability for both the user and opponents. Pariah can manifest any type of quirk needed to defeat anyone that stands in his way both one-on-one and in groups. Course, drawbacks are the learning curve to some of the quirks and that multiple adaptions he utilizes at once will destroy his cells in the process.

Pariah is a former follower of all for one who had unique quirk that All for one augmented to help him succeed if both Shigaraki and Tomura failed in their own conquest for the world. But now Pariah has his own plans to succeed where they failed and become the leader who shapes a new world order with an iron fist.

Frederick Kingsmen

Villain/vigilante name: Fright Knight

Quirk: Burning Energy Infusion

Able to form/infuse objects with his own burning energy life force that is capable of burning or slicing through any in his sight. The sweat he gives off is what provides the material needed to ignite his unnatural flames despite it causing his body to overheat still.

Fright Knight is Pariah’s second-in-command with a loyalty to him as strong as his control over his power. Fright Knight has faced many pro-heros as he carried out the smaller phases of Pariah’s plans and most of them barely came close towards defeating or leaving as much as scratch on the knight.

Rodolfo Gonzalo

Hero name: Wulf

Quirk: Werewolf + Portal creation (50/50?)

Can do anything a werewolf can supposedly do; somehow it allows him to create portals with his claws to locations he has marked with them or visited in the past.

Wulf was abducted on by Pariah’s forces and sent into the Nomu labs for experimentation to force on another quirk and instill complete allegiance to their cause. Course, Wulf broke free as a result of that new additional quirk allowing him to escape their clutches and his previous one helping him survive the endeavor. However, he lost his memories in the process and could only remember his native language, Spanish, and his hero name Wulf.

Overgrown

Villain/vigilante Name: Overgrown

Quirk: Plant Manipulation

Can manipulate any pre-existing plant matter or create new vegetation if water and soil is present for the process or he understand the biological makeup of the plant in question.

Occupation: Pro-hero or eco-terrorist who is tired of humanity from abusing the environment from quirk battles to industries using the land for their own benefits and none others.

That’s all I have for now! I hope this was worth the wait, guys. As well as, inspire ideas for your takes with a DP x BNHA Crossover!

#danny phantom #DP x BHA crossover #dp x bha au #dp x bnha #phandom #danny fenton #sam manson #tucker foley #paulina sanchez #dp ember mclain #dp walker #dp bullet #dp kwan #dp mr. lancer #dp dash baxter #dp crossover #dp aus

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popculturebuffet · 3 years ago

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Road to Reign Storm Road’s End: Reign Storm Review!

Hello all you happy people. And ladys, gents, and others, this is the moment you’ve been waiting for. After 8 reviews building up to this, we’re finally at the main event, the thing i’ve been doing this project for: REIGN STORM. My faviorte episode of Danny Phantom and the one I consider to be it’s finest hour... almost literally.

For those just joining me at the end of this project wondering what the heck i’m talking about: I’m Jake, I review stuff and things and for most of the past year i’ve been reviewing episodes of Danny Phantom on and off. I started with one of my all time faviorites, Bitter Reunions, and ended up having a huge blast reviewing it and revisiting the show after years of having not rewatched episodes, having not done so since close to a decade ago when I got the series boxset, with some not even getting that lucky. So I decided to keep things going ghost and came up with an arc: Road To Reign Storm, where I reviewed the episdoes I felt lead right into this episode which just so happened to cover almost every plot important episode of the show up to this point, allowing me to showcase some of the series best episodes, show how ahead of it’s time it was by incopreating ongoing storylines, being one of a handful of shows at the time (Along with Teen Titans, Xiaolin Showdown and Jackie Chan Adventuers) To push the medium into more arc based storytelling when it came to action shows, while still leaving room for fun one offs. It also gave me a proper refresher course for this mammoth epic so I could cover it properly.

The only big , status quo changing episodes I can think of I skippped in this little marathon were “My Brother’s Keeper” (where Jazz learns Danny’s secret identity), and Memory Blank, which gave Danny his neat chest emblem, a mild costume change sure but one that took an already great outfit and somehow made it better. The former is one I WILL cover at some point, as it’s one of the shows finest episodes, as well as being VITAL to Jazz’s development as a character and setting up her learning Danny’s id, which is crucial to story episodes after reign storm.

I also fully intended to keep covering the show. I may not do it on a monthly or close to monthly basis anymore as I have other projects, but this project reinvorated my love for the show and there’s PLENTY of good episodes to cover, from awesome one offs, to the rest of the ongoing storyline, to the other tv movies, with Ultimate Enemy only behind this one in my heart because of the baffling way it sets up the dark future at the center of the storyline. Seriously “danny cheats on a standarized test” just dosen’t feel like a big or tragic enough mistake to kick off everyone he cares about bar valarie dying, and his grief stricken decision to get rid of his ghost half that leads to the birth of his own personal venom. It’s still a an AWESOME film that part’s always bugged me and i’ll likely rant about it again. As for my plans.. you’ll just have ot wait till the end of the review.

It’ll’ll be a fun ride though, so follow this blog for more, and if you want to help me keep the lights on and keep making reviews like this join my patreon.

The Link Is Here

Just one dollar a month nets you exclusive reviews, and helps me hit milestones that will get me to review even more shows, with said reviews being on here for everyone. So if that sounds like your cup of tea and you have some dough to blow, join me over there. For now , Danny’s facing a forcast of his arch enemy’s machenations, an all powerful scottish ghost hoping to take over amity and then the world, feelings for his arch frenemy, and a not entirley ballanced lesson on using your power responsibly. It’s one heck of a storm a comin so join me under the cut and grab your fenton umbrella... which i’m shocked ISN’T something that actualyl wasn’t in the show but it should’ve been.

We open with an impressive mood setting shot, showing a ghost crow’s eye, before panning out to show the ghost zone and then zooming back in to show Vlad approaching what we THOUGHT was the Fight Knights castle, still being stranded in the ghost zone since the end of The MIllioin Dollar ghost and presumibly having used the weeks between the episodes (Since the handful of episodes between MDG and Reign Storm) to likely escape the guardian of the skeleton key was after last time and find his way to the castle.

Not a minute in and we’re already to one of the things that makes Reign Storm so special: It rewards you for having watched the show as a whole up to this point. Both of the main story lines continue in meaningful and intresting ways, almost all of Danny’s foes up to this point make at least a cameo and two of the most loved ones end up giving major exposition later, and even things you think wouldn’t probably come up again like the Fright Knight’s castle and the man himself end up being vital to the story as a whole. This is Fanservice in it’s best form: telling a well crafted story that rewards you for having come this far by giving you tons of payoffs, cool moments, and intresting writing.

The one thing the previous episodes didn’t set up for this though is our big bad, Pariah Dark. Turns out this is his castle, though it being attributed to the Fright Knight still makes perfect sense: as we’ll learn the Ghost King was locked up long before most of the ghosts we know and love in the series died and became ghosts. So the Fright Knight likely had a good few centuries of being lord of the castle before he ended up sealed in the pumpkin.

As for why this new baddie’s so important, it turns out Vlad’s whole reason for getting the Skeleton Key was to loot his stuff: the all powerful crown of fire and ring of rage. Because let’s facde it when your a god level king of all you survey, your not going for subtely, your going for making your shit sound as metal as possible.

Vlad gets the ring but finds it’s useless without the crown. This is where we get one of two plot beads in the special that just do not work at all for me. Vlad recklessly opens the sarcophogaus.. and thus awakens Pariah Dark. Now while i’m a self admitted huge fan of Vlad, he’s easily my faviorite animated villian period and one of my faviorite supervillians, part of what makes him intresting is his screw ups are usually due to his own failings as a person. He’s rich, he’s a master tactician and manipulator, he easily reads Danny half the time, and he’s an utter beast in a fight. But despite all that he usually looses because of his own ego and obessions: He lost his first fight with Danny only because Danny played on his own obession with maddie to force him to back off. He lost their second one because his similar obession with making Danny into his own son made it very easy for Danny to manipulate the schmuck into positoin to slap the ghost belt on him. Finally his last defeat was soley because he saw Jack as a helpless idiot and thus was blindsided when it turned out Jack was every bit as capable as his old buddy and easily thrashed him. Vlad’s main weakness is emotional. He thinks his plans through, and relies heavily on manipulation to win the day. As such it just dosen’t make sense he’d turn the key himself, even on impulse and free a potetinally dangerous foe. Sure you COULD say he thought he coudl take the ghost king or thought he was dead.. but given his terrified reaction to Pariah emerging it’s clear he knows EXACTLY who he’s dealing with. It’s just a lazy bit of writing in an otherwise near flawless episode.

Thankfully things pick up right afterwords as while Pariah wasn’t set up before this, the show gives him a hell of an entrance: his reaction to Vlad trying to manipulate him, as his his nature.. is to toss the fucker through the roof of the castle with a blast of trenemdous power. His encore to this is to free the fright knight.. who then kneels the second he knows his old master is awake.

Just to underscore how terrifyingly powerful this makes pariah come off: Vlad has been up to this point THE strongest foe danny’s faced. As I said he only won the two times he has against Vlad because he exploited Vlad’s own flaws. He’s brutally thrashed Danny three times at this point, once with, as he cleverly quipped his hand literally behind his back. Meanwhile as covered last month the Fright Knight nearly turned earth into his personal kingdom, and Danny only beat HIM by sealing him back up again, and only was easily able to do that because it was Halloween. These are easily Danny’s strongest foes (Desire is an easy third and is only that far back because her own power is really easy to turn on her)... and in just a minute of screentime Pariah has swatted one away like an annoying fly and cowed the other into obdience just by existing. This is how you set up a villian. It can be tricky having a powerful new villian come in and bitchslap the old one. This one makes it work: it’s geninely satisfying as it is allarming to see Vlad on the other end of a curb stomp for a change, and with the Fright Knight it gives the viewer an awful relization: Fright Knight is indeed a knight, one powerful enough to reshape the world in his image, and this man.. is his KING.

Apparently the blast restored Vlad’s braincells as he’s back to his normal ways, using a duplicate to draw Pariah’s attention since the Ghost King noticed Vlad stole his shit. In a subtly creepy show of his sheer power though... Pariah quickly figures out it’s a clone. It takes him a second sure but the fact is these ghost duplicates are near perfect copies of their creators.. and he can tell one’s a duplicate just by looking at them, meaning he’s either so seasoned he can spot the trick or his vision is so godlike he can see the diffrence once a beings close enough.

Vlad naturally is trying to talk the Fright Knight into an alliance, which the Knight is geninely tempted by, but the old man’s back again before Vlad can fully make his play and Vlad once again gets knocked the fuck out.... this time though it’s so heavy he’s left singed, bruise, and sent hurtling all the way through the ghost portal to the fentons lab, and so drained he turns back to human... which works out in the long run but once again shows Pariah as an unstoppable juggernaught: someone SO powerful he left the series big bad a broken wreck in just two moves and can easily topple his signiture move.

Jack and Maddie happen to be working on something useful as usual. This time it’s the ecto skeleton, a moderate sized powered armor that increases the users strength ten fold, designed to beat back the strongest ghost.. and then notice vlad flung out of the portal, who before passing out begs his “old fat friend” for help, because even when half dead, Vlad still can’t resisit dunking on jack. I’d honestly be more worried if he hadn’t insulted the guy.

One title sequence later, we’re at school and Danny’s pleased as punch since for once in his life things are going great: he beat Skulker AND ember last night, returning both to the ghost zone, AND got his homework done. But since god hates our boy he picks this time to have Dash lob a football at his head. Danny decides “fuck it I have superepowers” though and uses a ghost ray to knock a sign into him.

Danny decides to continue the shenanigans and stuff’s dash’s locker with Toilet Paper, which Sam advises as “playing with fire” then gets all smug when Dash finds out it’s Danny because he used “Fenton Wipe” aka toilet paper with Jack’s face on it. You may question the logic of Jack wiping his face on his ass, but A) since when has logic ever stopped jack from making something? and B) Thanks to large orders from Wisconson, it’s what bankrolls his other vanity projects so the system apparently works. Sam smugly says this is Karma.

Danny pranked a guy who has been NOTHING but an absolute bag of shit, wrapped in a sack of shit that’s decorated with little poo emojis’ to Danny the entire series. He’s been nice to the guy exactly twice so far and both times he had an ulterior motive: he had to be nice to danny during the fight with Youngblood because it was in his best intrest to work with Danny if he ever wanted to see his parents again, and he gave Danny a party invite SOLEY to try to get into Jazz’ pants. If Karma actually existed in the Danny Phantom universe a Velicoraptor would tailwhip Dash in the balls every hour on hour. And not only that it’s not even an equilvent bit of Karma. Danny made a bunch of clean toilet paper fall on the guy and at worst scrunched up his stuff slighty. Dash is trying to PHYSICALLY ASSAULT HIM OVER IT. I’m not saying Danny should get used to using his powers like this, great power, great responsiblity and all that, but I am saying Sam, and implictly the show, trying to paint Danny as wrong for doing so just dosen’t work. I’ll go more into how later as this subplot has only begun to be moralizingly stupid.

So then Danny ran and he ducks under a table in the Cafeteria.. and runs into Valarie. The two argue for a second over whose hiding spot this is, as Valarie is trying to hide from nathan, a stalkery nerd/plot device who wants to ask her to prom, three years from now and will never be heard of again after this. My money is on Vlad disappearing him and not getting that Valarie MAYBE dosen’t want him going that far. The frost quickly thaws between the two though and they talk casually, likely owning to the bonding session they had in “Life Lessons”.

After school the newfound buddies are still on the run and add one more to their party, Sam, who herself is hiding from her mom trying to make her wear a horrifyingly poofy dress that i’m pretty sure trying to force a goth into counts as child abuse. The three run for Danny’s house and Sam once again gets on her soap box to moralize at danny whlie only marginally making sense, this time worrying about danny hanging out with “one of his arch enemies” not getting that A) their hanging out due to circumstance B) Danny already has to hide his id from ghost hunters on a daily basis. He calls them mom and dad. Having to add one more to the mix by letting Val into his life, when doing so could also help if he decides to tell her who he is and get her to back off him and focus ont he real threats is a smart move. and C) Val isn’t a straight up villian. While her hatred of Danny is entirely based on a misunderstanding, she not only likely saw Walker’s frame job in Public enemies, so she has reason to think her first impression of him is valid, but as seen in her last appearnce, she DOES hunt ghosts who aren’t danny. Danny’s her main target and motivation, sure, but Valarie does spend plenty of time hunting actually threats to Amity, same as Danny and does so while juggling school and an demeaning job, something SAM KNOWS ABOUT. Thankfully unlike the Dash thing, where Sam is written to be annoyingly right, here it’s a bit more nuanced: She has half of a point, but it’s also made crystal clear later that part of her issue here is Jealousy.

Anyways turns out Danny’s ACTUAL arch enemy is waiting in his home, getting served tea and recovering from the intro. Thankfully this time around Danny isn’t the only one in the house suspcious of what Vlad’s up to : Since Maddie knows what a scum bag her former friend turned stalker is, and since said stalker set up a plane crash just to hit on her, it’s clear she knows he’s up to SOMETHING and while not being obvious in her hatred, due to not wanting ot hurt her husband by letting him know the truth, she does hurt vlad plenty with some hot tea to the crotch.

Unsuprisingly Vlad lives down to their suspscions, as he’s already plotting to stell the exo skeleton and says as much as “joke” in a classic show of vlad “I’m so confident I can tell you what i’m going to do and still get away with it smugness”. And given he DOES end the specail with the suit , the man really does work hard to justify his own ego. He also adresses Valarie whose understandably confused and put off he knows who she is.... and becaues he’s you know a creepy old white guy who knows her name. That can’t bode well and it does not, if not for the reasons she probably thinks. Danny is also confused he knows about Valarie and the gears are likely turning in his head about how a teenager suddenly got ghost equipment on par with his parents without living with them.

There isn’t time for Danny to put two and two together go as an alarm goes off and while fenton works has a good chunk of alarms from general proximity to reminding Jack to wipe, this is the big one: a huge surge of ghosts is coming through the portal. Naturally Danny needs to deal with this so Sam trips Jack and Jazz trips maddie. Which begs the question HOW the Fenton Crew didn’t figure out Jazz knew about Danny sooner. She’s about as good at hiding her knowledge of her brother’s secret as Vlad is at hiding the fact he wants to bone down with her mom. Vlad does take this chance to go talk with Valarie in private.

Danny meanwhile heads to the portal and gets the box ghost. He’s relieved for a second, figuring the alarm malfunctioned... only for in a great shot to get swarmed by tons of ghosts, including the bulk of his Rouges Ghoulery. And if that wasn’t a big enough reveal after a big fight with Skulker, Danny finds out WHY all his foes decides to take an earth vacation at once: their RUNNING. In what could only have been a few hours, Pariah has razed all their home dimensions. And this isn’t some small feat either: Ignoring just how strong each individual member of the Rouges Ghoulery is, these are pretty expansive places and he trashed pretty much all of them in the span of an afternoon. Not only was Vlad not even a remote match NO GHOST SO FAR is and thehir here for once not to cause mischief or attack danny, but to simply hide for their lives.

That said just because beating the shit out of Danny isn’t their primary goal, dosne’t mean they can’t spare some time for it. We get another iconic scene as pretty much every Ghost Danny’s fought at this point takes a shot at him, leaving our hero just as badly beaten as Vlad was.

Speaking of the cheesy dickhead, we get some payoff that’s been brewing since Vlad first gave Valarie the exiqupment back in her first outing as a ghost hunter: Vlad finally makes himself known as her backer. Valarie understandably asks why and Vlad says it’s because he geninely admires her drive and passion, and sensed the talent to ghost hunt in her. And this part feels genuine. While he’s clearly manipulating Valarie like he does everyone, Vlad isn’t stupid: if he’s going to pick a pawn to manipulate, he’s going to make it a good one. While he likely picked her in part because she had a personal reason to hate Danny, something he likely knows because he keeps a creepy amount of tabs on the fentons at all times, Vlad isn’t stupid. If he’s going to spend the likely millions of dollars it took to build high tech equipment JUST for one person, he’s going to make sure that person is actually worth the expense. If he gave it to just some schmuck who Danny would easily beat and then take the equipment away from, all he’ dbe doing is giving his arch enemy more toys to play with. He had to pick just right and saw past who Valarie was, a prilvaged spoiled brat, and saw who she could become, a driven young woman with the talent to be a true threat, while also keeping Danny nice and sharp incase he decides to come around and see Vlad as a dad after all. Not only that but it leaves him a perfect pawn for whenever he needs one, in this case to take the ring for him , under the guise of it being an heirloom, till Vlad can get the crown. Just to recap so it all sinks in: Vlad spent MILLIONS of dollars and did a creepy amount of research all to set up a capable but still manipulatable pawn.. on the likely but still remote chance he’d need her at some point for something. And it PAID OFF PERFECTLY. If Vlad wasn’t so hung up on stalking Maddie, turning danny or killing Jack, he’d of won by now and this whole scheme proves it.

At school the next day Danny’s not in great shape and given his arch enemy is sleeping in the room next to him and every OTHER enemy he has is out loose fleeing something worse he knows nothing about, and had to spend all night hunting his foes to no real luck.. yeah i’d be pretty beat too. And because god clearly hates Danny an ectopus steals his lunch just to rub salt in his freshly gained wound. I’m very suprised a ghost horse didn’t just manifest and kick him in the balls after that.

So naturally there’s no day of life that Dash can’t make worse and wanting vengance for the other day, grabs Danny. Danny is pissed off and in no mood to put up with this, so he makes his chin intangible so Dash’s punch passes right through, and Val, who was sitting with our crew to the other twos displeasure, sliding a lunch tray at the prick knocking him over.. which results in a THUNDERING CHORUS of applause and Sam once again getting all self righteous about. While the full rant’s still a comin, I will say this time is even MORE ludcrious as while Danny did piss dash off, he was ACTING IN SELF DEFENSE, and used the most passive of his powers to do so. All he did was try not ot get hit and make sure dash actually got compuance for hitting him, which again he usually dosen’t because he plays sportsball. At least last time she had half a point, even if she was way too smug about it and way too self righteous. Here she just assumes Danny’s gone down a dark road because he didn’t want to get punched in the face again.

Danny’s got bigger problems than School Bullies and self righteous love intrests though as Pariah has assembled his army and instructs them. He’d go himself but Darkseid got him a really comfy chair as a welcome back present. That shit’s geniuine parademon hide, that’s plush. When your old murder college buddy offers you a parademon hide chair you make time for it and let your minons go do the disembowling. I’d also like to point out how much I love this skeleton ghost army: it’s simple but it works, most of them wearing diffrent outfits from diffrent ages giving the impressiont his army has built up over centuries by both it’s commanders to be nigh unstoppable.. and leaves the viewer wondering how they came to be and if the fright knight or pariah did something horrible to regular ghosts to make them into these things.

So with this the Fright Knight attacks the lab and Jack once again gets to be awesome as he uses the ecto-skeleton’s fabulous kick pants to kick his as and send him packing. It also nicely shows off the skeleton even if it’s not done yet, turning jack from more of a glacial bruiser, if a genius one, into the fastest thing alliiiiiveeee. The Knight withdraws as he realizes Vlad DOSEN’T have the ring. We also get a display of just how risky the skeleton is to use; just using the PANTS has left jack near death. Naturally Vlad dosen’t bother helping maddie get him out of the pants.

Meanwhlie the rest of the Army of Darkness wrecking up the town and giving the exiled ghosts a chance to find new domains leading to some fun gags, my favorite being Box Ghost taking over a shipping store

Couple: We need boxes, lots of them! Box Ghost: Never!

Sidney is the only one not really into this, feeling their no better than their pursuer.. and forgetting most of his fellow ghosts are supervillians on any given day so Skulker just mounts him to a wall with an arrow.

So next up we get back to school where Sam and Tucker try to have an intevention about the whole Valarie thing. The issue is only ONE Of these people has a leg to stand on and suprisingly given the whole “Let your bully punch you it is the way” thing, it’s Sam. As I said she’s written well in this subplot and thus has valid points while also letting her own feelings for danny, concern for his well being, and history with Val blind her to the whole picture. To break it down

Where Sam’s Right: While hanging around Val isn’t inherently more dangerous than being around his own parents, danny starting a relationship with her is. She’s going to get suspcious if he keeps ducking out meaning he either has to let her dump him over it.. or tell her. And like with his parents there’s not a 100% guarantee she won’t try and kill him, either thinking Danny Phantom was controlling or replacing Danny Fenton.. or finding out her boyfriend lied to her and is the person she hates most. She MIGHT accept it, but there’s every chance she might also try to kill him. He can’t know that and while I feel it’s worth the risk as they clearly like each other a lot, and ultimately it’s HIS CHOICE if he wants to roll those dice or not, I can see why Sam might be afraid.

ON top of that as she makes clear at the end of the special, Val wasn’t exactly a good person before everything went south for her. She was rude, condescending and just as much a bully as the rest of the popular crowd. Her origin story ep also has her sick Kwan on Danny for a simple mistake. Sam has good reason to mistrust someone whose been nothing but terrible to her, and when they did genuinely try to cheer up Val after she lost everything, she was a dick to them. She also outright manipulated tucker to try and get closer to the Fentons. Granted tucker was predatory to her earlier, so I can’t really hold it against her, but I can see why Sam would. So Sam has reasons to distrust Val.

Where Sam’s Wrong: I’ve already poitned most of this out so i’m going rapid fire for this: Val does the same job as Danny, dosen’t realize his ghost form isn’t dangerous due to understandable misunderstandings and Walker’s whole public framing of Danny as a bad guy. Just because Val’s an anti-heroine dosen’t mean she’s not heroic or there isn’t good in her. Not only that Sam KNOWS Val is having to juggle school, ghost hunting AND a part time job just to go to college. She knows Val is human underneath the walls she puts up. Finally as Val points out soon, it’s VERY clear at least on some level Sam isn’t happy Danny’s with someone else, though at the very least it’s not a Daphne and Fred from Scooby Doo thing where she’s INTENTIONALLY jealous of the other being with someone else despite them having no romantic relationshpi, just an attraction they haven’t acted on. It’s just something Sam herself either dosen’t realize or is trying to suppress her feelings because she’s understandibly scared of them as it could ruin their friendship if it goes poorly.

So it’s well balanced and well written for her. Tucker on the other hand.....tucker has NO argument whatsoever given his actions during Val’s origin story: he outright put on breath spray and prepared to hit on her ENTIRELY because she was in a rough spot and thus would be more venerable. He outright says as much, I reviewed the episode, go look if you don’t believe me. That should be enough on it’s own but there’s also the blatant Hypocrisy: Tucker DATED Val in that same episode for the reasons I mentioned, and got defensive when his friends both pointed out she’s trying to kill Danny AND clearly using him, saying “Your just jealous”

So yeah after that incident, Tucker really shouldn't be trying to warn someone off dating val and the writers should’ve been fully aware of it.

Danny rightfully defends her and his budding relationship with her, she says she likes him too, it’s really sweet. Danny’s ghost sense then tingles.. or I guest frosts up a bit. Whatever point is he senses a ghost but before he can go after it Dash attacks again.... despite the LAST three times having gone poorly.

Danny, once again pissed off, actually crosses the line this time, possesing Dash and slamming him into a locker. He had other ways around it , phasing, a ghost beam, what he’s used before.. but he went for an option that actively HURT the guy and used his powers to do so and could’ve SERIOUSLY injured him. While Danny does need to get to the emergency and dash does deserve some Karma because he’s a throughly shitty person and Karmic Velociraptors dont’ exist sadly. It’ sthe one time in this plot it geninely feels like Danny actually is slipping into darkness and they aren’t just saying he is to him defending himself.

Danny finds Vlad and we get to why the above subplot dosen’t work and what i’ve been waiting for. Vlad saying Danny’s actions with Dash make them alike.

Yeah this is where we finally get to why this plot dosen’t work soooooo

We’ve gone over some problems of it already: Until now Danny has only used his powers mildly against Dash, and every time after the first to avoid a beating, Sam is way too self righteous and the show expects us to back her, and Dash being the second Anti-Christ after Santa Claus.

But now we’ve gotten to their thesis statment, with Vlad actively saying Danny isn’t so diffrent than him , using his powers on his enemies. The INTENT is good and the idea there also is: Danny slowly slipping into using his immense powers on Dash and thus becoming a bully himself. This is even something the show badly needed a redo on as they also fucked it up with the Poindexter episode last season. We’ll get to that someday. Point is the idea that a young hero needs to be responsible with their powers, that you can’t just exert your power on former tormentors and stuff. Defending yourself is fine, that’s fair. But when you start using super strength to pummel a fucking school bully, your no better than they were. And i’ve seen great examples of this lesson or heroes acting on it: In the recent invincible cartoon our hero Mark gets himself beat up in the first episode for standing up for a classmate being harassed by the local flash thompson clone. He and dash probably network. Later on when he gets his powers instead of use them to fight the guy he simply asks him to “hit me as hard as you can”.. and thus freaks him out by taking a few punches without flinching since he’s you know...

Just like Danny mark used his powers to avoid getting hurt, not that this dickcheese COULD hurt Mark but still, and did so in a way that didnt’ really hurt the bully. Ther’es no harm in using your powers to not get hurt. Saying “a person should get beat up by an asshole” just because heroes don’t use their powers like that is dumb and logic like that is why the Snyderverse John Kent threw himself into a tornado. A similar example is the Rami Spider-Man film, which has peter use his ablities to dodge, but be careful not to actually punch Flash. Simple effective and logical.

Speaking of Spidey the second set of films has a very good example of why a hero shoudln’t give into anger and pay evil unto bullies just becaue THEY have the power now. And did so very well: after ben’s death because Peter wouldn’t stop a theif after the cashier wouldn’t give him choclate milk and said thief tossed him choclate mlik and good god that scene was dumb. It’s easily the worst version of Uncle Ben’s death I know of.

Point is after that, Peter is in mourning and when his usual tormentor Flash tries talking to him, Peter snaps and tries to beat up the guy.... only for it to be revealed Flash.. .was actualyl being a goood guy this time: instead of bullying peter he was GENINELY offering his condolences and snapping like this makes peter realized how far he went. He attacked a guy just for talking to him.

And the latter is what their trying to do.. but by also villianizing the former. And it just does not work. The show is not great with bullying, showing that dash is an unreptenant asshole, that he only gets punished if the teachers have to APPEAR fair.. yet TWICE now it thinks “oh well Danny should just take it.”. The show just treats Dash bullying Danny like something that happens and sucks but you have to suck it up and take it. And this is something I entirely blame Steve Marmel for

Yup. Look i’m a fan of the guy, have been ever since i realized just how much of what I loved about the series was his, from the overaching stories to some of it’s best episodes. While he was far from the only reason the show was a success: Butch, as much of a fuckup as he is, did have a great concep, Stephen Silver’s character designs are iconic, and the show had a LOT of talented writers besides Marmel. But it was Marmel’s direction that gave the show the focus, character development and strong continuity that made it a masterpiece. But just because a creator is excellent.. dosen’t mean their flawless and this flaw in the show is squarely Marmels: He wrote this one, made the story for Splitting Images, and also wrote Fright Knight. He puts werid moral logic in his stories where because Danny retaliates against a bully or screws up a bit, hes going to turn out bad. He dosen’t get that Danny’s you know 14: Teenagers screw up all the time. Adults screw up all the time. People, Marmel included, are flawed and make mistakes. You have to ballance your hero fucking up with a proportinate response, not assume every time his morals slip just a bit, he’s slipping into darkness. The Locker thing is about the only time he’s really gotten this, being something brutal, excessive and unecssary. But most of the time when Danny slips up he just wants to get some revenge, and it comes off less as “revenge is dumba nd only makes things worse” which it does and more “You can’t do bad things your the hero you need to not do bad thigns”. It’s just so simplstic from a show that has far more depth to it it’s baffling.

Danny is NOT bad for wanting to ocassinaly prank Dash, using his powers to avoid a whopping, or ocasinally making an oopsie. He’s just a teenager. It’s okay for characters to fuck up and okay to explore the consequences. Things don’t have to be TGIF levels of “you screwed up so god must punish thou” and it’s grating that in a show that has such intresting characters and fastneating storytelling that it falls back on this simplistic BS. It’s beneath Marmel and I hope he did better on this sort of thing in his later shows.

Before we move on, one last thing about this plot: Sam. I feel episodes like this are WHY a lot of fans hate her. Me... I feel she’s not a bad character, she just has a LOT of episodes where she’s poorly written, either taking her soap box sadie tendencies seriously instead of treating them with the shades of gray the series does at it’s best, or having her constantly nag Danny and try to serve as the angel on his shoulder despite not really having an argument as to why she’s right. I don’t hate Sam Manson the way people do, but I do feel she’s written inconsientaly and deserved better, though she’s far from the only character with this issue as Tucker and Jack also heavily suffer from this.

The two naturally fight which goes as poorly for Danny, same as it ever was, while inside Sam tries to lay into Valarie... only for Val to cut her to ribbons with three simple words “You Like Him”

Sam stumbles to try and defensively deny it.. but it’s VERY clear she’s trying to tell herself it’s not true as much as Valarie. But i’ts Val’s response to all this that shows how much she’s grown: She tells Sam she needs to make her move now or “someone else” will. Even just in her last episode Val would’ve gotten into a shouting match instead, she gives someone she has no reason to be nice to a clear shot at dating someone Val is very intrested in, simply because she can tell Sam is struggling to tel lherself she has a crush on Danny let alone tell DANNY about it. It’s a mature, classy move: Val will still swoop if Sam makes no move.. but she’s giving Sam a wide berth to do that first.

So while that’s going on the news reports on the Army of Darkness surging on the school, which sends all the parents running to help, while Vlad asks Danny

As he smacks danny into it and tells the boy he isn’t the problem. Sure enough the Army of Darkness show up, forcing the two into a figh with the Skelleys. We get an AWESOME shot of Danny and Vlad back to back, and Danny reluctantly agrees to trust Vlad. I do love me a good villian hero team up, especailly when it’s arch enemies like this and this one is great: After so many great fights between the two we see the two working together, fighting back to back, and it is so freaking cool.

And it only gets Cooler as naturally, Val joins the fray and we get a great joke as Vlad realizes that he’s created the perfect instrument to impale himself as Val attacks them mid battle. The look on his face as he realizes this, and his deadpan “she’s really qutie good” and danny’s response of “she also thinks we’re the enemy” is fucking classic.

Danny is forced into playing peackeepr and uses the same point as vlad: they don’t have to like each other, but they NEED each other. Val reluctantly agrees to a truce, and so we ge tthe three best characters in the show, the center of the show’s story and th ecore of it’s best moments, all fighting together. It’s as beautiful as it sounds.

The Fright Knight eventually decides he’s had enough and makes his own play, stabbing his sword into the football field near the goal, scoring a touchdown.. and opening a massive barrier that slowly surrounds amity, trapping everyone inside. The barrier sequence itsle fis awesome, showing the sheeer scope as it tears amity apart sealing it off. the Knight gives his ultimatium: give him the ring and the barrier goes down, removing his sword means they surrender and anything besides those two means death. Val wont’ back down, she stands her ground.. and gets whalloped by the Fright Knight for her troubles. Vlad skedaddles and Danny is left with an unconscious and heavily injured Valarie.. right as her dad shows up.

His mom also shows up.. and as @jess-the-vampire pointed out when we watched this, as of last time she’s joining me whenever I watch these, she looks pissed and it makes no goddamn sense. Why would she think her son beat up another person or MUCH WORSE for no reason. My god this implies some awful things abotu Maddie. Danny does indeed explain and they skedaddle for Fentonworks.

At Fentonworks danny’s friends ONCE AGAIN try confronting him about the Val thing, as they noticed the ring of rage before she left to get ready for some football and think it’s a tracking device. We get a fun gag as she happily waves at danny when he peaks his head out to look and he does the same back. It’s really fucking cute. Danny makes the connection that it’s clearly the same ring the Fright Knight was talking about and that Vlad gave it to Val. Tucker makes a quip that “isn’t he a bit old for her”. Because an older creepy man manpulating a 14 year old is SO chucklesome. It REALLY dozen’t help I saw Last Night in Soho this weekend so an older man manipulating a venerable young woman REALLY isn’t a subject I find hilarious right now or ever.

Danny decides to say “Hey, what’s going on” after spendign the special forced to react to everything going to shit around him. So he cleverly decides to just outright ask the hiding ghosts about it since their his only lead that isn’t a skeleton bones, a known lying manipulator or a known lying and manipulatin skeleton bones. This leads to a brief fight with Skulker after Danny enters his Bass Pro Shop Lair, and Skulker refuses to stop his Kraven the Hutner Schtick for five minutes to talk to Danny. Sydney once again plays the voice of reason, and this time is heard pointing out Danny can help them. Given he’s beaten both of them, Skulker MULTIPLE TIMES, Skulker concedes his point and the rest of the ghosts gather.

And so we finally get Pariah’s Backstory: Long ago, before most of the ghosts we know at this point even existed, there was Pariah Dark. With the limitless power provided by the Crown of Fire and Ring of Rage, Pariah was unstoppable and ruled with an iron fist... and we’ve seen it it’s a dang cool iron fist. Eventually 6 powerful ghosts united to seal him, just BARLEY doing so after taking the ring from him. Why they thought putting both him and the ring in the same place was a good idea I don’t know.

Until Vlad woke him up. Danny tries to get the rouges help against him and gets the response you’d expect

So with that Danny decides to confront Vlad, luring him outside and leading to another fight and them getting ready for some more football. Vlad once again poitns out “your not so different you and I”

And Danny decides to say fuck this and pull the sword. Naturally though pulling the sword left by the spooky ghost knight that made a giant green imepndtrable dome DOSEN’T end well, something Vlad knew about but choose not to tell Danny till he was about to pull the thing.

And with that we get ANOTHER awesome sequence as the barrier collapses.. and amity park is brought into the ghost zone.. and into Pariah’s domain, meaning he can finally make his entrance. And he once again shows the sheer SCOPE Of his powers, as he treats our heroes as if they were mere insects and swats them down to their unconcous human states with horrifying ease. The only reason they don’t die this time is that Val noticed they were missing and shows up just in time to save both and get them under the Fenton RV”s ghost shield. Jack and Maddie have expanded it, with damon launching a ghost probe, a nice nod to how Damon was a scientest before his firing and thus can likely easily grasp the more complicated systems the fentons use. Maddie also announces Jazz has cookies and boys she’s single like any good wingmom. Val realizes their after the ring and not realizing how bad an idea this is, sends it away on a missle to distract Pariah while she gets the boys to safety. just BARELY getting to the shield after the fright knight attacks her. Val sets danny down then passes out herself, with Vlad noping out the second he’s awake again.

After jack walks in on the two and assumes their just hanging out, and likely dosen’t worry about his heterosexual teenager son sleeping next to one of his classmates because of the fresh box of fenton condoms he gives danny every week, Sam and Tucker do, and Danny wakes up. Danny feels guilty: Val got hurt because of his impulsive actions, and had he tried to learn what was behind this sooner, he might’ve been able to stop it. Everyone’s in danger and while i’ts not entirely his fault, it’s his responsiblity to finally end this.. and he knows exactly how. Danny intagibles down into the basement to get the Ecto-Suit, where Maddie is explaning it and planning to go herself afte rknocking jack out.. onlyf or Jazz to knock her out and eventually a conga line of every adult in amity other than Valarie’s dad conks themselves out of conciousness. It’s a good bit. So danny prepares to take the suit, knowing how dangerous it is.. but also knowing it’s the only way he has ANY chance of being strong enough to defeat Pariah. it’s another good Spider-Man style moment of determination: Danny knows his odds of winning this even WITH the suit are incredibly slim and his odds of surviving are almost non existant.. but he’s also the best shot they have and if he has to go down swinging.. then so be it.

Unfortunately there’s one last obstacle as Val is up, planning to do this herself, and planning to shoot danny in the head. We then get another classic moment as Damon, Val’s pop, enters.. and Danny unmasks his new love intrest, with damon keeping her out of the way while Danny takes the suit up top. Now in almost any other circumstance, unmasking a hero is a pretty low act.. but here Danny is low on time and a fight with Val just means he’d be more exausted going into a fight where he needs EVERYTHING he can muster if he’s going to win, much less survive. Revealing Val’s id is a desperation move and he’s doing so to someone who at worst is going to be miffed she’s been putting her life in danger without telling him and ONLY Damon.

So with that Danny gets up top, with his friends waiting to both see him off, since he might not make it back. Sam ALMOST tells danny how she feels but then dosen’t. I bring this up because Nick has a REALLY bad habit of using any shipping material in an episode to convince the viewers to watch it. In this instance. promos gleefully used the above you like him thing and this moment to make you think something would happen.. only for it not to. This show got it light ill grant but they absolutely were obnoxious with it when it came to Avatar the Last Airbender and Zoey 101. Granted both shows were VERY bad at teasing at a relationship instead of having any actual progress, so it’s not entirley nick’s fault, but it still isn’t a nice thing to do to kid just to get them to watch, even if it worked.

My ranting now done, Danny goes ghost, which neatly also gives the Ecto-Skeleton a nice makeover, and flies off in easily one of the shows best and most iconic scenes: Danny flying into danger, the entire town of amity cheering him on as he heads into the fire. And when Paulina tells him to “Go get him Invsio Bill” we get an awesome line to close out the scene

“It’s PHANTOM, Danny Phantom!”

God this special is awesome. Danny arrives at Pariah’s Keep, finding the army of darkness in it’ sfull force, a near endless army. While their no match for Danny in the suit, since i’ts own tricks work perfectly with Danny’s powers, fighting them starts to drain the poor ghost boy. Luckily Sam and Tucker arne’t one to sit this out and drop off some reinforcments: the ENTIRETY of danny’s rogues gallery, pulling a changed my mind kid. It’s a great shot and while we don’t get any conformation on screen why they choose to do this it’s very obvious why: Pariah has brought Amity into the ghost zone, their no longer safe from him, so helping Danny survivie this and beat him insures their own survivial. We then get a spectacular battle as every one of Danny’s foes, and Klemper and Sydney whose riding the dragon princess... anyone ship those two? Anyone? Anyone? Just me. Okay then.

Danny heads in and we get out show stopping climactic fight: Danny against someone with the power of a god, going head ot head. The fight is utterly gorgeous, well paced and brutal, with danny reguarly strugglign due to the strain of using the suit, leading to a great exchange as Pariah notices danny’s exaustion and waxes on the burden of having so much power.. while Danny points out the usage has been the problem. Grante dI don’t agree with the dash thing but I do like the parallel here: Pariah, a being with unlimited power , wastes it as a conquerer and subjgator, perfering to make people bow to him than actually help anyone. He could do anything, change the ghost zone for the better.. but he’d rather make it his. Danny in contrast has a severe drawback to his power upgrade.. but takes it on because that power is the only thing between his town and the innocents inside and this power mad monster. Despite being outmatched, out experincfed and outgunned, despite knowing he will probably DIE doing this, danny fights anyway.

And in the end it’s persitance, heart and bravery that win out as we get the moment tha’ts been built up for an entire season: Danny FINALLY multiplies using the power of the suit, and all four of him tell Pariah to “get out of my town” before combining their blasts to utterly wreck a god. Danny tehn steals his crown and shoves him back in, though even with only one half of his powers, Pariah is STILL so strong, as we’ve seen before, that Danny can barely manage it and awesome moment of willpower tha theavily reminds me of the iconic image of spider-man under all that rubble. Sadly unlike Spidey, Danny ends up tapped... but gets help from an unexpected source: Vlad, who uses the same key that started this whole nightmare to end it once and for all. As Danny starts to pass out, not understanding why the Fright Knight is suddenly by Vlad’s side or what this was all about, we get easily my faviorite line of the entire series, and Vlad’s best moment in the entire three season run of the show.

“ What? That I used two fourteen-year-old pawns to turn a knight and topple a king? It's chess, Daniel. Of course you don't understand. But then you never really did. “

It sums up vlad in one sentence. Sadly due to Marmell’s leaving the Fright Knight thing never pays off but ti dosen’t make this line slap less. It does however bring up a count i’m going to need for the rest of the series going forward

Dropped Plotlines count: 1

So with that Danny wakes up at home, with Vlad having naturally claimed credit for saving him. Maddie forgives vlad for the act, which feels... off. while Vlad did do something really kind in her eyes.. he still you know tried to seduce her and insulted her husband and could’ve just saved danny to get in her good graces. It dosen’t qutie work for me.

What does is the next part as a news report shows the town is cleaning up from the disaster, sweeping up dead skellys and what not... wait can a ghost die? what WERE they. Not only that but Danny’s heroic actions have finally undone the damage Walker did: while not everyone trusts him, danny is now seen as a hero by the majority of amity park.. except for val who shoots her tv, and then has to hide it because her dad now knows what her ecto gun is.

So we get our final scene which is .. not great. Danny wonders what Vlad’s up to, and tries being the bigger man to dash.. who wedgies him on a flagpole.

God what a waste of a character. Who the hell looks at flash thompson and thinks he’s BETTER with no character development? Good god Dash sucks. Val talks to Sam and Tucker, who admit they don’t trust her, and val admits she wants to go out with Danny so they sick nathan on her. HAHA GET IT BECAUSE THEY DON’T LIKE HER GOING OUT WITH HIM THEY SICK HER STALKER ON HER HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Gee I can’t fathom why people would prefer sam with Val over danny> It boggles the mind.

Final Thoughts: While I had some issues with the episode on rewatch.. Reign Storm is still a masterpiece and is still my faviorite episode> it ties together everything so far into an utter epic that juggles a ton of plot lines.A nd while ONE OF THESE obviously did not work, the rest are gold: Vlad trying to play Jack while Maddie keeps an eye on him, Vlad finally revealing himself to Valarie, Valarie and Danny’s budding romance, Vlad being forced on the defensive for once, and every last one of Danny’s foes forced to hide in amity. As I said before and i’ll say again this special is fanservice in the best way possible, gladly repaying you if you’ve been watching the show and making you wonder what you’ve been missing if you hadn’t. This episode stuck with me for 16 years and it always will. It may not be perfect, but it’s easily an incapusation of everything that makes this show great.

So with that the road to reign storm is over. And as I said i’m not done. Next up is a fun one off: it’s christmas next month after all so have a fright before christmas. After that I’ll be doing Flirting with Disaster for a one two punch of a valentines and black history month review. After that I plan on covering the rest of the story episodes eventually.. but if you have any episdoes your dying to see me cover, don’t be afraid to tell me via my ask box or the comments on this review

I’d honestly love to hear what YOU want to see next and would be glad to oblige. And if you want to talk danny phantom , other fine cartoons and whatever other nonsense pops into my head, feel free to jaunt on over to my public discord server

RIGHT OVER HERE

For now though i’m going to kick back for a bit and watch Krampus for the next review. Thanks for reading.

#danny phantom #danny fenton #vlad plasmius #vlad masters #Valerie gray #sam manson #tucker foely #pariah dark #skulker #the box ghost #sydney poindexter #jack fenton #maddie fenton #damon gray #dash baxter #nickelodeon #reign storm

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ecto-american · 4 years ago

Text

The Other Side

Phic Phight Oneshot for Kiinotasha and KC: (AU) Born a halfa and raised in the Ghost Zone by his mother, Danny struggles with his human identity when a permanent man made portal appears in the Ghost Zone.

On AO3 and FFN

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Danny never questioned his life until that man made portal spawned. He never forgot when he first saw it six years ago while playing with Youngblood.

Naturally, they were playing aliens and spacemen, Danny's favorite. Earlier in the play session, they had found it, and it was deemed part of their spaceship. It was just a metal outline, an octagon. Thick enough that they could sit, and they pretended that the limited space was the entrance. Obviously on the left side was space, and the right side was their ship. Eventually their moms called them home, and during dinner when asked about his day, he told his mom about it.

She frowned, and she asked him for more details. Having played on it all day, he described it perfectly. His mom paled, and she forbid him from going there again, but she didn't expand on why.

He saw no reason to be afraid. It was just a metal shape. There were far more dangerous places in the Ghost Zone. So the next day, he told Youngblood about his mom's weird reaction. His mom had reacted the same, but didn't say why. His dad explained that it was dangerous, but not what about it was dangerous. Danny didn't have a dad, but he was sure that if he did, he probably would have said the same thing. But neither child could get it. What was dangerous about a shape?

So they just played with it again the next day, and they lied to their moms about what they did.

Two years later, another ghost had join to make them a trio. Her name was Box Lunch, and she was honestly a lot of fun. But she was still a girl, and they didn't tell her about their secret fun location until they were sure she didn't have cooties. When they showed her, she instantly knew what it was.

"That's a ghost portal!" she exclaimed. Youngblood and Danny thought she was stupid. Ghost portals didn't stay anywhere permanently. They opened and closed at random, when the human world and Ghost Zone would temporarily merge and allow for a rip to tear. But it always mended back together quickly.

"No it's not," Youngblood scowled. Box Lunch made a face at him.

"Yeah-huh!" she insisted. "My mommy and daddy get into the human world all the time! She said some people there have been trying to make a permanent portal to here!"

"Nu-uh!" Youngblood argued. "My dad said that humans wouldn't do that, they're more afraid of us than we are of them!"

"Yeah-huh!" Box Lunch said more forcefully. "My parents were human once, they said that people constantly wanna hunt us in the human world! And that they're coming here!"

"If they're afraid of us, then why come here?" Youngblood challenged.

"What else would it be?" Box Lunch asked, crossing her arms.

"It's a weirdo ghost's lair!"

And as they bickered back and forth, Danny had remained quiet. He didn't know how to feel about any of this. His friends often forgot that Danny wasn't just a ghost. He was also human.

Not that he was a ghost who was once human, that died. He was both, and he always had been. Born that way, according to his mom, because his dad was human. Danny didn't know too much about him, and he never really thought to ask.

He knew that his name was Jack, and how he looked like. His mom had hung a photo of him in his room so that he'd know; blue eyes, black hair, with a square jaw and in a distinctive orange jumpsuit. The orange suit always reminded him of the blue one his mom wore underneath a lab coat. She said he looked just like his dad when he was in his human form, and he could absolutely see it. Though as a ghost he had white hair that he seemingly inherited from nobody, with his mom's light blue skin and yellow-green eyes. As a ghost, he matched with a black jumpsuit, though as a human, he preferred regular clothes.

Most ghosts had learned of Danny's true nature early on as the news slowly spread when he was born. They loved him and accepted him as one of them. He could go out into the Zone as a human, but it always felt weird. So he was always a ghost.

That night, as he got tucked in for bed, he decided to bring the metallic object up again.

"Box Lunch said that the big metal shape is a permanent ghost portal," he blurted out. His mom stared at him with wide yellow eyes, and so he knew that Box Lunch was actually right. "Is it?"

She sighed, sitting on the edge of his bed.

"I believe so," she confirmed. Danny sat up.

"Is that why you don't want me going near it?" he asked.

"Yes," she replied. Danny cocked his head curiously.

"But if I'm also human, wouldn't they be okay with me?" he wondered. His mom paused for a long, long time. "I'm also one of them."

"I don't know, honey," she admitted. He could tell that she did know. She kissed his forehead. "I'll talk to you about it when you're a little bit older, okay?"

"Promise?"

"I promise. Now good night, sweetie."

It was four more years before it really became relevant again. He had essentially forgotten about the unoperational portal as homeschooling, other friends, and general undead life had continued on for him and his mom.

Youngblood didn't age, since he was once human and died, and so as Danny got older, they hung out less. While Box Lunch, a born ghost, grew, he became distant from her too for unrelated reasons. Danny wasn't alone, however. For a while, he hung out with other ghosts who had died young before he met his best friend. He was a bit older than him when he had died, sixteen to his fourteen, but Johnny 13 (and his shadow) and him had almost instantly become friends and hung out nearly every day. Often his girlfriend joined them too. His mom also allowed him to keep a newly dead dog that had followed him home, that alternated from a puppy to a large hulking beast of a monster dog. Danny named him Cujo.

Ghost Writer provided lessons in the arts on Tuesdays and Thursdays for him and a few other younger ghosts, which did include Johnny and Kitty. On the other days, his mom homeschooled him in her passion: the sciences. His favorite memories were of him and his mother in her lab, doing home experiments and building a wide variety of things.

She indulged in whatever nonsense he wanted to build, which included but wasn't limited to: rock cannon, small spaceships, figuring out how they could grow potatoes on the moon like the man in the martian book did, using ecto energy to cook poptarts.

Often her friend, Technus, but better known to Danny as Uncle Nico, came by to do more of the tech-based stuff. Danny believed that Uncle Nico could do anything with technology. He was one of the ghosts that often went through the natural portals, and whenever he came back, he had something for Danny. Typically game consoles and games, but sometimes fun little useless knick knacks that Danny treasured deeply. He fixed those game consoles many times, and also showed him how to download and install cheats and mods to make them more fun.

And after a morning full of science or the arts, Danny would eat lunch then rush off to play with his friends, Cujo always on his heels.

Looking back, he never did much as a human. He had to resort to his human side to rest, or would default to it if he fell asleep. It felt weird being in human form amongst ghosts, and so he was just always a ghost. He never thought much about it, and nobody ever asked him to be a human around them. It was just how things were.

On the day he'd never forget, it was just him and Johnny. His girlfriend had opted not to come. Danny couldn't remember the original topic, but it made him remember the portal. As soon as he told Johnny about it, the two idly scratching Cujo as the dog slept in between them in puppy form, the ghost's eyes lit up excitedly.

"Dude! We have to check it out!" Johnny insisted.

"I dunno," Danny hesitated. "My mom said that I should stay away."

"Come on, it'll be sick! I've always wanted to go back to the human world," Johnny begged. "And you've never even been there, despite being half-human!"

Danny paused. Well, when you put it like that...

"Okay!" he agreed. He floated up from his seat a bit so he could untangle his legs to stand. Cujo immediately got up from his spot laying near them, tail wagging excitedly. "Let's go! I think I still know where it is!"

It had changed since he last saw it. It now had huge yellow and black doors in place of the previous blank space, and it seemed somehow bigger than he remembered it years ago. But it was unmistakably the man made portal.

Even now, he didn't get what would be too scary about it that his mom would encourage him to stay far away. It was just a door.

"This is so fucking cool," Johnny whispered as he touched the door. "Imagine...no more trying to hunt down a portal. We can just come and go as we please...seeing our lost loved ones...seeing my mom again…It's been so long...I dunno if she'd even remember me..."

Danny didn't say anything, but he did begin to think and truly wonder for the first time what his dad was like. His mom never talked about him, and he never really asked. He and his mom were happy, and he also had Uncle Nico. Was his dad kind? Did he also like science? Why wasn't he here? Did his dad even know about him?

"Do you think we can open it?" Danny asked. Cujo licked his fingers, and Danny scratched his head. Johnny glanced over his shoulder at him.

"I dunno," he admitted. His hand turned into a fist and he knocked on the door. "It seems really solid. I don't think we can just break it or something."

"Hm. Lemme see," Danny mused. He came closer, and he put his hand on the door. It was cold, and Johnny was right; it was metallic, just like the outer edge he used to play on, and it would not break easily. His finger traced the middle line of the two doors. "Hm. Maybe we can pry the door open."

"The humans made this," Johnny spoke. Danny stared at him. No shit. "No, no, I mean. Maybe you should do something to it as a human." Danny thought on this, and he shrugged. Couldn't hurt.

His transformation rings came and went, leaving him in his human state. He was just in a t-shirt and jeans today, and he stayed floating near the portal.

His hand had barely touched the portal when it opened for him.

Danny gasped in shock, jerking his hand back as it opened. Johnny had also jumped, going backwards a bit, and Cujo's fur went up as he barked. It fully opened, and he couldn't see anything but the green ooze. This wasn't anything like Uncle Nico had mentioned natural portals being like. They normally acted like a window you could see through. But it was an unnatural portal made by man.

"Maybe this isn't such a-" Johnny began, but Danny had already stepped through.

There was a weird in between area that shined bright blue that he never heard Uncle Nico describe. But in this in between, he could see exactly what the ghost had mentioned. He knew he was still in the Zone, but he could look out the portal into the human world like a window.

A man in an orange jumpsuit, with black hair that was graying, was sitting in a room that reminded him very much of his mom's lab. He was staring at the portal in confusion, likely because it had randomly opened, and Danny instantly knew who it was. He had no idea if his dad could see him, but he found himself rushing backwards, and back into the Zone.

The second he returned, he became a ghost again, and he silently began to fly away as he tried to process. Johnny asked no questions, only following, Cujo following them both.

That night, at dinner, he finally asked.

"What was dad like?"

His mom stared at him for a moment.

"Well, he was very sweet," she said slowly. "Very bubbly personality. Always went out of his way to help his friends." She smiled softly as she talked about him. "Adored fudge."

"Did he like science?" Danny wondered. His mom gave a short laugh.

"Oh boy he adored it. Not the best at it, but he had a lot of enthusiasm," he replied. "We used to do experiments together all the time."

Danny stared down at his food as he thought. He looked up to her, and he could tell that she already knew what he was going to ask.

"How come I never met him?" he wondered. She sighed.

"...He doesn't like ghosts," she replied. "Aspiring ghost hunter when I met him, actually. I was alive then. Had the same ambitions." At his shocked look, she laughed again. "I know, ironic. We had dated for about two years officially. But then...I died. It was winter, and I was driving late at night during a snowstorm. My car slid off the road, and into a river. And I died from my injuries. I found that I could disguise myself as human, and I was in denial. So I just...continued on."

"...Why?" he asked. His mom shrugged in defeat.

"I guess I just didn't want to admit that it was over. I hadn't done everything I wanted to do yet. I was still in college, and I felt like my life had been forcibly finished before it had even truly started," she admitted. "Jack had proposed, but I had declined. I was too afraid to tell him. He began pursuing ghost hunting more seriously as a profession and building weapons and portals. I found out I was having you, and he was so excited to be a dad. I began getting scared. I didn't know how long I could continue the lie. I didn't know how it all would affect you. Then the police found my car and body, and I knew I couldn't avoid the inevitable any longer. So I left. I had no clue how to face him, or even how safe you might be if we talked. Especially after you were born, and I realized that you were half ghost."

The more she talked, she more somber she became. By the end, she was sniffling a little. Guilt began to wash over him.

"Have you ever talked to him again? Like after I was born?" he wondered. She shook her head no. "How come you've never taken me to the human world?"

"I had considered it. But it's too dangerous," she explained. "Humans aren't like ghosts. If they knew that you were also ghost...you wouldn't wanna find out what happens."

"...Do you regret any of it?" Do you regret me?

She smiled softly despite the conversation.

"You were the best thing to ever happen to me," she told him. "I may have been very anxious about being alone, and how you may turn out despite it all. But you were born healthy and perfect in every way. You're absolutely the light of my afterlife."

Danny smiled back, feeling some reassurance. His mom stood up, leaning over to peck his forehead before picking up her plate. He heard Cujo scramble out from under the table, ears up in excitement.

"I think I'll finish this later," she told him. "I'm not too hungry tonight." She glanced down at the dog. "This isn't for you."

Cujo whined, following her as she put her plate in the microwave. Danny nodded, sparing a small smile to Cujo and ushering for him to come over. He slipped him a piece of chicken as his mom left.

Later that night, Danny couldn't sleep. He was too busy sorting out his rushing thoughts. He was of course still him. Nothing really changed, but there was this new growing emptiness. Danny was still Danny, but there was a whole other side to him that knew nothing about. It began to eat at him more and more. Who was this human side besides just human Danny who lived in the Ghost Zone? He didn't know.

He now wished that his mom had taken him to the human world before so that he could know. She did say that there was a risk in the humans knowing he was also a ghost, which he didn't get. The ghosts accepted him as one of their own, so why wouldn't the humans? He didn't get humans at all. And he needed to know more about them. He was one of them.

By breakfast, his mind was made up.

After an unusually boring lesson with Ghost Writer together, Danny immediately went to Johnny once their small class of sorts were dismissed.

"I have to go back." Danny couldn't breath for a moment. "I have to see what it's like. Like you said, I'm also human, and I've never been there. All my unlife, I've been a ghost, here, in the Ghost Zone. My dad's in the human world. And I need to know what it's like to be human. What it means. So I can maybe meet him one day."

Johnny nodded.

"I think I get it," he said slowly. "I'll come with you. Keep you company. I think I could pass for human pretty well, even if I have to say that I have some kind of sickly disease that keeps me pale."

Danny grinned.

"Thanks," he replied. "Come on."

It took no time at all to find the portal. Danny stared up at it, his breath once more stolen as he tried to think of a reason why he shouldn't go through it.

Nothing came to mind.

"It's okay if you don't wanna," Johnny said. Danny shook his head no.

"I have to do this," he replied. "I need to do this."

Johnny patted his back, and that was all the subconscious encouragement Danny needed to turn human and press his hand to the door. Once more, it opened. The fact that he's even able to open it made him know that this was something he was meant to do. He once again stepped through with Johnny right behind him.

#phic phight #the other side #my phics #phics #danny fenton #danny phantom #maddie fenton #johnny 13

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ghostgothgeek · 4 years ago

Text

Chaos.

Another for the Phic Phight! This one kinda combines two prompts and I had so much fun writing it! In this, Danny and Tucker don’t know Sam plays video games yet. 5,063 words.

"What do you mean you don’t feel the same way? We´ve had a mutual crush on each other for years." Sam says angrily after finally confessing her love to him. But Danny´s heart was beating hard for someone else entirely. Prompt by phantomfana.

Danny wants to ask his crush to the upcoming school dance. Prompt by Rikaleeta.

-----

It was another long night of ghost hunting for Danny. Technus took up the first part of the night, trying to take over the park’s new security system. Tucker was fortunately still awake to help him out with that. Then Johnny and Kitty rolled in, but they weren’t looking for trouble, they just wanted a date night and swore they wouldn’t be a problem. Apparently Fridays were their days off for “everything but each other”. Danny was a romantic, but he didn’t know if this was sweet or nauseating. Ember had put up a good fight, though. He was proud he only had one injury to tend to. He had dodged most of her attacks, but she was still a pretty advanced ghost. And, of course, Danny had caught the Box Ghost six, count them, SIX times. How did he always manage to get out?! He wasn’t difficult to take down, he was just a pest.

Danny sighed as he sat down at his computer chair. It was only 12:30 am, and it was a Friday. He could sleep in tomorrow and he deserved at least a couple hours of fun. He logged into his online gaming account and saw Tucker was online. Figures. He pulled up the chat anyway.

Astrohaunt: Hey Tuck. Still up?

Technopedia: You know it. Chaos signed on about a half hour ago and I’m not passing up the opportunity.

Astrohaunt: Dude is so good it’s unreal!

Technopedia: He goes to our school, I tracked one of his IP addresses and he logged in at school a few times.

Astrohaunt: Tucker wtf. That’s creepy!

Technopedia: I just want to make sure Chaos is actually a kid and not Lancer again!

Astrohaunt: I still can’t wrap my mind around Lancer playing Doomed…

Technopedia: Same. But Chaos IP is different from Lancer, so we good. Unless more teachers play Doomed.

Astrohaunt: I hate you for putting that image into my brain.

Technopedia: Sorry dude. But quick come join before someone else gets Chaos.

Danny, Tucker, and Chaos had made a great team. Whenever Chaos was around, they were actually able to progress through the game. They played several rounds until Tucker was caught by his mom and was forced to sign off, but Danny and Chaos kept playing.

TeamChaos: Hey, what’s up?

Astrohaunt: Omg dude you’re so awesome.

TeamChaos: Ha, thanks. Gotta blow off steam somehow.

Astrohaunt: Tell me about it! Between Lancer’s three projects and midterms and...other stuff...this is my only time to actually chill. I’ve been so stressed!

TeamChaos: Same. I did finish one of the projects though. I’m always here if you need to talk, you know.

Astrohaunt: Wow, I may just take you up on that offer. I’ve had a rough night.

TeamChaos: Lay it on me.

And so Danny, sparing the ghost hunting details, stayed up chatting with Chaos until 5 am. He got along really well with the guy, they had a lot of similar interests. This was just the first of many up-all-night conversations they shared. After a few months, Danny felt a special connection with Chaos, and yet, he didn’t even know his name!

Astrohaunt: We’ve been talking all these months and I still don’t know your name. I’m Danny.

TeamChaos: Oh, thought you knew. It’s Sam!

Astrohaunt: Hey! One of my best friends is named Sam!

TeamChaos: You don’t say!!!

The next day at school, Danny pulled Tucker over to him, whispering, “Dude, help. I think I might be gay....”

“What?!” Tucker shouted.

“Quiet, Tuck!”

“Okay, well uh...why?” Tucker sent him a weird look and took a step back.

“No, not you. Chaos. I think I have a crush on Chaos.” Danny ran a hand through his hair. “I don’t know what to do! I never thought I’d be...you know. Chaos and I just have good conversations and he’s always there to listen to me when I need to vent. I thought maybe I found another best friend but...this is different. Chaos is so cool and I’m crushing and I don’t even know who he is or what he looks like! Or if he feels the same way! Maybe I’m just stupid and-”

“Dude, chill. You’re jumping too far ahead of yourself. Whichever way you, you know, swing...I’m still your best friend.” Tucker pulled out his PDA. “Let me see what I can find out. I know Chaos goes to our school.”

“Thanks, Tuck. As if being half ghost wasn’t hard enough! Oh, and he’s in our class, because he’s talked me through assignments and knows what they are and stuff. He’s almost as good as explaining things as Sam. Crap...Sam. Don’t tell her about this!” Danny started fidgeting.

“Well,” Tucker raised his eyebrows in surprise, “I can tell you with absolute certainty that Chaos is definitely a girl.”

“You found out who Chaos is?!”

“What, like it’s hard?” Tucker chuckled. “I traced the IP addresses she uses. I know who she is. So do you,” Tucker smirked, “It shocked me at first, but it makes total sense! And I can totally see why you like her.”

“Really?” Danny let out a breath in relief. “Okay that makes me feel a lot better...hey, maybe I can ask Chaos to the dance next Saturday!”

Tucker rested a hand on Danny’s shoulder. “Go for it. Ask Sam. I’m almost positive she’ll say yes.”

“Okay, I will...wait, not Sam! Chaos!” Danny clarified. “Well, actually, I think Chaos told me her name was Sam. Ha, small world. I can’t wait to introduce Sam to Sam. I think they would really get along.”

Tucker busted out laughing, “Oh, dude. You go ahead and do that.” He left Danny standing there in the hallway, still laughing all the way to his next class.

Danny, a bit confused by Tucker’s laughter, shook his head and smiled to himself. Okay, good. He’d had enough identity crises to fill a lifetime. Chaos was definitely a girl. Now if he just knew Chaos returned his feelings, things might actually work out for him this time and he could actually have a girlfriend.

Meanwhile, Sam was having an internal debate of her own. Sitting in a class where the teacher couldn’t give two shits about what the students were doing, she had always used this class as her thinking time. Usually her thinking-about-Danny time. She nervously clicked her pen as she thought about recent events.

She and Danny spent so much time chatting online when they weren’t hanging out in person. Danny was a little bit more bold online, probably because he didn’t have to interact face-to-face or risk his pants falling down in public again. Online, they talked about everything. No topic was off limits. Plus, Sam felt like their friendship had only grown even stronger when they could chat online and not have to worry about blushing or getting teased by Tucker. Chatting online took away all the pressure and made it much easier to connect with Danny.

Danny hadn’t said anything yet, of course. He was probably scared. Hell, she was scared. She was already so in love with him, and getting closer online only further solidified that fact. She had never been in love before, and even though she hunts ghosts, this was more terrifying! She was fairly certain he returned her feelings, but both were too chicken to actually make that final step. They’ve been best friends forever. She didn’t want to mess up their already great dynamic or force Tucker to be the third wheel, though he did insist he was more than okay with that and encouraged them to finally get together.

Sam stopped clicking her pen as she suddenly remembered it was senior year. They hadn’t picked colleges yet, but whether they ended up going to the same school or not, things were going to change. Danny was very attractive, and going off to college meant girls may actually approach him when they didn’t know his parents were ghost fighters. The fact had never bothered Sam, but she did kind of like how it kept most girls at school from asking him out or giving him attention. Valerie had been a challenge, especially because she was a ghost hunter herself and probably wanted to get tips from his parents. Sam was glad that relationship ended relatively early. It was too hard on her. Joyous or not, though, she was still mad at Valerie for how she broke his heart.

But that was 2 years ago. They had all moved on and friendships were more or less mended across the board. This made Sam glance at her favorite picture of her and Danny. Tucker had taken the candid picture and it was now her phone’s background. In it, Danny was giving Sam a piggyback ride. Her arms were lightly strung around his neck, legs looped around his waist. Danny had kept going in the opposite direction Sam told him to go, which frustrated her but also made her laugh. She had rested her chin on his shoulder, her face pressed right up against his. Danny was looking at her and Tucker had captured that rare moment when Sam had a huge grin on her face, still laughing. She smiled at the picture. They would be okay no matter what. Their friendship would survive.

Anyway, Sam also realized she had already come close to losing Danny, in more ways than one. Whether it was to other girls or a ghost, there was always that anxiety stirring in her head that she could lose him entirely some day. Life was too short. She needed to take the plunge for both of them and just get them both over this hurdle, and they could finally, finally, actually get together.

Sam made her decision. It was now or never. She was going to tell him. Today. The trio was meeting up at Danny’s house later anyway, and if she got there early enough, she could talk to him before Tucker showed up and teased them about it. Sam firmly nodded her head to herself, a confirmation of her decision. It was finally time.

After school, Danny was pacing in his room, trying to figure out how he wanted to do this. Asking a girl to the dance wasn’t a huge deal, and yet at the same time, it was. He would rather ask in person, but he still didn’t know what Chaos looked like, so asking in person seemed to be off the table. He could look in the yearbook for all the girls named Sam at their school. He could already omit one Sam Manson from that list. How many Sams could possibly attend their school? It would be easier to ask Tucker, though. Tucker already knew who she was. Sam and Tucker were on their way over right now. When Sam wasn’t paying attention, he could ask Tucker for Sam’s full name.

Chaos Sam, not best friend Sam. God, this was so confusing. Why were girls so hard for him? Freshman year, Paulina only liked his ghost half and wouldn’t give his human half the time of day. Sophomore year, Valerie hated his ghost half and that hatred was more important to her than her feelings for his human half. Junior year, he had been denying that he was in love with his best friend. And now that he had finally accepted that he did like his best friend as much more than a friend, a new girl entered the picture and he now found himself trying to choose between two Sams. Because it apparently wasn’t hard enough for him already to make the biggest and most important change he could possibly make in a friendship, let’s add another crush to the mix and give them the same name.

Sam. Best friend Sam - that’s who he was planning on asking originally, even if he chickened out and had to ask her as a friend instead. Plus, he and Sam had somehow gotten closer recently, and he was pretty sure she liked him. Sure, it was only because Tucker told him so, but it was a possibility. The thing was, he didn’t want to ruin things. Especially because he truly didn’t know how Sam, best friend Sam, felt about him. She was a tough and courageous girl, surely she would have said something by now if it were true. So Tucker must be pulling his leg.

But he did have another option - Chaos Sam, who may actually return his feelings. Sure, the feelings weren’t nearly as strong as what he felt for his best friend, but the feelings were still there. Plus, if he got rejected by Chaos, it would be less heartbreaking than being rejected by Sam, someone he had known for years rather than months. He could deal with losing a newer friend, but not one of his best friends. Sam was too important and he knew he needed her in his life.

Danny sighed. This was really hard, but he made a decision. It was easier to go with Chaos than risk ruining things with Sam. Danny had enough drama going on in his life already, he needed an easy win.

He broke from his thoughts when the doorbell rang. He ran downstairs and opened it, only slightly surprised to see Sam there. She was usually early for things. He and Tuck were more prone to being late.

“Hey, Sam. Come on in!” Danny moved so Sam could enter his house. He shut the door and followed her upstairs and back to his room as she returned his greeting. She was pacing the same path he just had, muttering quietly to herself. She looked nervous. “Something on your mind?”

Sam was startled out of her thoughts. “Huh? Oh yeah.” She noticed his disheveled appearance, also noting he was fidgety. Was he going to do what she was about to do? “What about you, you look like you’ve been thinking a little too hard about something.” She smiled softly.

Danny chuckled, “Yeah, but it’ll resolve itself soon. I’ll worry about it after the movies. Tuck should be here any second. Oh, but I’m glad you’re early. Can you help me with something quick?”

“Of course.” Sam followed him to his desk, smiling and rolling her eyes when he pointed to a homework problem. “I should have known.”

Danny gave her a lopsided smile and watched as she showed him how to do the problem in her perfect handwriting. It took no more than a couple of minutes. Now, they were just waiting for Tucker to arrive.

Sam looked at the time. He would be here soon. She needed to do this now. She needed to tell Danny. She couldn’t wait until after the movies for him to tell her. She had already waited long enough and couldn’t bear another second.

“Danny, can I talk to you for a second?” She sat down on his bed and gestured for him to do the same.

Danny could sense the seriousness in her voice, and nodded anxiously. He was scared when Sam was serious about things. It was usually something bad.

“Danny…” She decided to get straight to the point. “I like you. As in like-like you. More than like, and more than a friend. And we’ve been doing this dancing around for at least 4 years now and I’m sick of it. I just want to be with you already. What do you say?” Sam held her breath as she waited for Danny to answer.

He stared at her with wide eyes before nervously rubbing the back of his neck and turning his attention to his shoes, avoiding eye contact with the goth. God, why him?! He had stupidly thought, for once, things would be easier for him this time. He had already sent an offline message to Chaos that he wanted to ask her something, and then Sam had to come along and tell him what he had wanted to hear for some time now. But he couldn’t blow Chaos off when he had already somewhat asked. Of course, his life just had to be complicated every step of the way. He really liked both girls and didn’t want to hurt his best friend. Regardless, he had to be honest. He owed Sam that much. “Well, I mean, yeah, but…”

“But what?” Sam whispered, clearly already upset. Fuck. Fuck fuck FUCK. This was exactly what he didn’t want to happen. He decided to try going with Chaos so he could avoid heartbreak from his best friend. The very thing he had been so afraid of, he was doing to her right now.

Danny sighed again. “But I can’t. I’m so sorry, Sam.” It was hard to choke out, but he said it, and he felt terrible. He pressed his lips together and kept staring at his shoes until Sam lifted his chin up, forcing him to look at her.

“What do you mean you don’t feel the same way? We’ve had mutual crushes on each other for years!” Sam said angrily, feeling her heart break as her best friend and love of her life rejected her confession of love. She was so sure he returned her feelings! Especially after all the great conversations they had shared online these last few months. “Or, at least, I thought we did.” Tears swelled in her eyes. Did he lead her on? “I-I need an explanation, Danny,” she quietly stated after he didn’t continue.

Danny frowned and his heart ached. He didn’t want to hurt his best friend like this. Hell, he really liked her! Of course their crushes were mutual! And if this had happened 6 months ago instead of now, he would have jumped at the chance. But now...now he had Chaos and already forced himself to stick with his decision. It was easy with Chaos; there was no friendship to risk, no denying of being lovebirds or brushing off kisses as fakeout makeouts. Plus, he couldn’t lie to his best friend. She would know if he was lying. And he already told himself she deserved the truth. “There’s...someone else…”

“What?” Sam whispered before turning angry again, “Paulina? Valerie? Star?” she spat out.

Danny shook his head, “Ew, no...it’s someone I met online...I’m so sorry, Sam. I like you a lot, I really do, but I think I’ve already come to the conclusion that I like this girl I met online, Chaos, and I have to try to see that through.”

Many emotions crossed Sam’s face as she pieced together what he just said. At first she was upset, but as he explained himself, she felt disbelief, confusion, anger, and finally, hope. He couldn’t really be that clueless, right? “Show me.”

“Huh? I mean, I don’t actually know what she looks like, but we message every night and she really understands me! I know it sounds ridiculous, but-”

“Show me,” Sam repeated. “Show me her profile.”

“You’re not going to hurt her, are you?” Danny questioned cautiously.

“No, of course not. Just shut up and show me the profile.” Sam was more calm now, and that was kind of scary. Even though Sam said she wouldn’t hurt Chaos, he didn’t want to give her the chance. But he knew how stubborn his friend was, and eventually in whatever way, she would force the information out of him.

Danny sighed and pulled up the profile to show Sam. “I’m sorry, Sam. I’m still your best frien-”

“Shut up.” Sam scrolled through what Danny pulled up for her and pinched the bridge of her nose in frustration. Closing her eyes slowly, she took a deep breath. “Didn’t Chaos tell you her name?”

“Uh,” Danny thought, “oh yeah! She said her name was Sam, because I thought she was a boy at first and I had an existential crisis, but then Tucker told me-”

“Danny. I’m Sam.”

“No I know, and sure it’ll be a little weird cause you’re Sam and she’s Sam, it’s confusing, but I-”

Sam interrupted him once again. She could hear Tucker’s footsteps approaching. She was running out of time to not make this a spectacle. “No, Danny. Chaos. Sam. Me. I’m Sam. I am Sam,”

Tucker only heard the tail end of the conversation as he entered the room. Never able to pass up a comedic opportunity, he smirked and added “I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like green eggs and ham!”

It was suddenly silent in the room as his friends seized conversation and glared at him. Oops.

“Oh, am I interrupting something?” Tucker could see the fire in Sam’s eyes. “Uh, oh wait I forgot my...sock. I’ll be downstairs!” He raced out of the room.

Sam turned her attention back to Danny. “No, you stupid fucking MORON. I am Chaos. You’ve been talking to me the whole time. I thought you knew that!” Danny stared at her blankly until she pulled out her phone and he watched her log into her account, proving it to him. Sure enough, it was Chaos’s profile. He could see all the direct messages between them, including his offline message about wanting to ask her something.

“Wait, you? You’re Sam? I mean, Chaos? I mean Sam?” Danny looked back and forth between the profile and his best friend.

“UGH!” Sam shouted as she threw her hands in the air. “Yes, Danny. That’s me! Did you really not notice that Chaos was the same age as me and a girl who goes to our school? We have the same name and interests! Didn’t you wonder why it was so easy to talk right off the bat? I thought you put that all together and us just pretending to not know each other was a little bit you were trying to do or something!”

Danny stared at her as he continued to piece it all together. He was definitely embarrassed. He felt so stupid. How could he not tell that Chaos was Sam, his best friend since 7th grade? Talk about being totally clueless.

Wait. Clueless? Well, fuck! He got the nickname now!

His eyes flickered back and forth as he thought everything through. Eventually, he started to crack a smile. “Wait, so I’ve had a crush on you and also you? You’re the same person! This is great! Do you know what this means?!”

Sam slapped her forehead and began walking downstairs. “I don’t even know if this is worth it anymore…”

“Wait, how come Tuck and I never knew you played video games! We can enter team tournaments! You’re so good!” Danny chased after her.

Tucker watched as Sam grumbled about Danny caring more about video games than her. An excited Danny was right on her tail.

“Tucker! Sam is Chaos! I’ve been in love with Sam this whole time!” Danny explained.

“Tucker, I need you to refrain me from slapping his stupid clueless face,” Sam started.

“Wait, you didn’t know Sam was Chaos? Dude! I thought I was obvious about that!” Tucker began laughing at Danny.

“I know, so did I.” Sam crossed her arms over her chest.

“Danny, you can calculate levels of rocket fuel and figure out how to get us to Mercury or something,” Tucker started.

“Mars, actually,” Danny corrected.

“But you can’t figure out that your best friend and your crush are the same person? You’re more than Captain Clueless, you’re like….Lieutenant Clueless? That’s like, bigger right?” Tucker continued.

“I don’t think that’s how it works, Tuck,” Sam chimed in.

“Shut up Sam, this isn’t about you,” Tucker immediately stopped his train of thought when he felt Sam glaring daggers at him. “Heh, uh. Except it does. It actually has nothing to do with me. I’m sorry I told you to shut up, please don’t hurt me!” He threw his hands up in front of himself in defense.

“Relax, Tucker. I’m more angry with this fucking dingus,” she pointed her thumb in Danny’s direction.

The halfa was about to protest, then closed his mouth. “That’s fair, I deserve that.”

“I can’t even look at you right now. You scared me! I poured out my emotions to you. I thought you were rejecting me and that I would have to change my name and move to a different country! Wait, are you still rejecting me?” Sam stopped her pacing to look at him.

“Of course not, Sammy!”

“Oh don’t you ‘Sammy’ me! I told you I love you, you stupid fucking idiot!” Sam began throwing pillows at Danny, who expertly dodged them (though as a result, Tucker got hit in the face by one).

“Technically, you didn’t say ‘love’ you said ‘like’”, Danny offered as Tucker shook his head and slashed finger across his neck, signaling Danny to stop talking.

“Oh, I’m sorry! This is all my fault! I’m going to go jump off a cliff now!” Sam growled and Danny let out a small “oomph” as one of the pillows finally got him.

“I’m out. Good luck, bro!” Tucker quickly slipped out the door, leaving Danny and Sam alone.

Sam was about to follow Tucker out when Danny stopped her, “please don’t leave!” She still had angry tears in her eyes. He frowned. This was not how he expected things to go. She watched him for a few seconds before sitting down on the couch, refusing to look at him. “Sam I’m so sorry, this is just a huge misunderstanding.”

“No, Danny. It’s not. You were going to turn me down to go out with someone else.”

“But that someone was still you!”

“Yeah, but you didn’t know that! We’ve been friends for years, and you were more interested in someone you just met a few months ago! I don’t want to be anyone’s second choice, Danny! I’ve been standing by for years as you continuously chose other girls over me. I thought we were done with that, and that you were finally choosing me first, but you won’t and you never will and I’m so stupid.” Sam put her head in her hands as she tried her hardest not to let tears fall.

And that was when he finally figured it out. It wasn’t just the moment of rejection, it was years of rejection, and at her biggest confession, she still thought he was choosing someone over her. Not to mention, Tucker witnessed most of the conversation. Sam rarely showed her emotions. She always had her heart guarded, and he knew this. Tucker knew this. Hell, she didn’t even tell them she was rich until after a few years of friendship. It took them a while to get her to open up to them. She was a pretty private person. She was probably already hurt like this before. And now, she was probably embarrassed.

“You’re definitely not stupid. I’m stupid. I should have known it was you. That was actually what I really liked about Chaos, she reminded me of you.”

Sam forced a small sarcastic laugh, “Yeah, right.”

“No really,” Danny sat on the couch next to her and grabbed her hand, placing it in both of his. “Sam, you’re absolutely incredible. How dumb would I have to be to not notice?” Sam gave him a pointed look. “Okay yeah but it’s not the way you think it is. I liked Chaos because she was a lot like you. She reminded me of you. And it just seemed easier to go with her because she was basically you, but she and I didn’t have a really great friendship that could have gotten ruined if we broke up or something. I could live without her, but I can’t live without you. You’re always my number one. Always have been, always will be. Even if I did just fuck everything up. I’m so sorry, Sam. I’m ready to be with you, if you’ll still have me.”

Sam stayed silent and stared at her lap, processing this new information. Of course she would forgive him; she always did. She just needed a little time.

Danny was getting nervous that he really did fuck this up for good. This was so fucking important! He couldn’t risk fucking this up! Sensing her hesitation, Danny tried one more thing to get her back. One thing he hasn’t done before. One thing he just learned how to perfect.

“Sammy, I’m sorry,” a duplicate popped up next to her on the other side of the couch, startling her.

“Please forgive me?” Another duplicate was floating in front of her, hanging upside down, hair flopping all over the place.

“I know I’m a dummy but,” Sam snapped her head towards a third duplicate.

“I’m only a dummy because I’m in love. With you,” the real Danny finished. Sam looked back and forth between all the Dannys.

“We’re sorry, Sammy,” all the duplicates said at once.

Sam was trying really hard to hold back a smile. “You learned how to duplicate,” she stated simply.

Original Danny grabbed her hands. “Sam. I will make this up to you. I promise.”

She could hear the determination in his voice and sighed. “You better.”

Danny smiled and hugged her. “Thankyouthankyouthankyou!!! I love you so much!”

Sam pushed him off of her. “I love you too, you fucking idiot.”

“But I get to be your idiot!” Sam couldn’t hold her laughter back anymore. “Oh!” Danny shouted, “Will you go to the dance with me? Please?”

Sam pretended to ponder the answer before saying “alright”.

“Yay!” All 4 Dannys cheered. The duplicates on either side of her kissed her cheeks as the real Danny kissed her forehead tenderly. The final duplicate, feeling left out, squeezed his way in to give her a hug.

Sam was now roaring with laughter before kissing the real Danny sweetly. “You know, duplicates won’t always get you out of trouble,” she warned.

“Yeah, but they could come in handy for other things,” he wagged his eyebrows up and down suggestively before passionately kissing her, the duplicates kissing her neck and touching her in near-dangerous places.

Sam bit back a moan, eyes lustful before smirking, “I think you just found a way to make it up to me.” She began dragging the real Danny and one of his duplicates back to his room. Fuck the movies.

#phic phight 2021 #danny phantom #danny fenton #sam manson #tucker foley #amethyst ocean #also yes I took a prompt that was kinda anti-AO and turned it into AO #it's my super power #AO ho 4 life #stephanie writes sometimes

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echoghost1 · 3 years ago

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Fic Writer Review

Thanks @dekalko-mania for the tag! I had fun with this and it was nice to see my progress both overall and just this year alone.

Also gave me an excuse to post a couple of fics as their own works and not as part of one-shot collections

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

88. Although some are one-shot collections that I have yet to break apart so technically it’d be more?

2. What’s your total AO3 word count?

285,412 😲

And it’s 175,154 for just 2021 alone! 🤯

For comparison, 2020 it was 58,257

Then again I did phic phight this April and that month alone I wrote 50,357 words so...

3. How many fandoms have you written for and what are they?

Two. Mostly Danny Phantom, but I got a few Percy Jackson fics too.

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

The Ravens of Casper High

Unclaimed

Where The Lines Overlap

Feline Fine

You Walked Right Into This

5. Which of your fics do you want more attention for?

Stone Baby Curse, mostly so I remember it and actually update it 😅

6. Do you respond to comments, why or why not?

No…. but sometimes I'm not sure what to say, like just saying thanks for a nice comment doesn't seem to be enough or sometimes it's so nice I get so flustered I'm just thinking in keyboard smash. Other times if I answer the question it would spoil upcoming stuff, but I usually try to then answer the person in the upcoming chapter notes so they know I did see their comment.

But sometimes I do.

7. What’s the fic you’ve written with the angstiest ending?

Ignoring the huge pile of wips…

I'd say it's probably Just Because It Didn't Kill You, Doesn't Mean It Isn't Fatal, because of major character death, and it was so slow, and the first time I killed him in a fic. 😭

8. Do you write crossovers? What’s the craziest one you’ve written?

Yes! Not often, but yes.

I guess if I have to choose, it'd be the Teen Wolf one, Under the Full Moon.

Partly because I was a little too eager to post the first part when I really hadn't thought enough about where I wanted it to go and how I'm going to get there (and how overly ambitious I'm being by wanting it to be like JAMF). And also I had no idea how little of an overlap there was between the two shows’ fandoms. If you boil them down to their bare essentials, they are really similar shows. Teenager gets turned into a supernatural creature and has to navigate the changes while also keeping their town safe from other supernatural creatures all while keeping a dual identity from the people they care for the most.

Granted, Scott has a way better support group than Danny, but he also deals with more death (in a permanent sense) than Danny.

9. Have you ever received hate on a fic?

Nope. I think that's mostly because I don't think I'm very popular though.

10. Do you write smut? if so what kind?

Nope. Way too Ace for that. 😅

11. Have you ever had a fic translated?

No, but I think it's for the same reason as the lack of hate comments.

12. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

No. I’m not sure if I would be a good fit for that. When I'm able to write is really hectic and I'd feel bad for making someone wait. (I'm already doing that to my readers)

13. What’s your all-time favorite ship?

For DP, it's Gray Ghost. I just really liked how their relationship grew in canon (and I think it's really funny that Danny's type is "beautiful women who can kick his ass")

But if we’re talking about my OTP to end all OTPs? Then I have to say Percy & Annabeth from the Percy Jackson series because they are so good together. 🥰

14. What’s a WIP that you want to finish but don’t think you ever will?

I want to finish all of them. 😭

I have so many ideas and I don't want to keep them to myself, but then I have all these unfinished works that I've now cursed other people with wanting more.

Every time I get a comment on stuff that I want to continue that says "can't wait for more" or "I wonder what happens next." I'm just sitting there like, "me too. 😢"

But I think the wip that is going to forever just stay a wip is A Bad Idea because I have absolutely no idea what to do with that one.

When I wrote it originally I had this whole thing planed out but then I let it rest and when I looked back on it I was didn’t like it. It covered something that I really don’t like to read and I don’t even know why I was going to write it that way. But I really like the start. It’s so good. It sounds like it’s going somewhere but then that’s it.

I was hoping that if I just posted it anyway I might get an idea or maybe someone else would mention something and I’d get inspired, but nope.

15. What are your writing strengths?

I think I'm good at dramatic tension & surprising the reader with twists. I feel like every time I set up a plot point or introduce a new character, I think I'm being super obvious, but then I'll get comments that try to guess before the reveal and the guess will be some random other thing or after the reveal, I'll get lots of surprise reactions that they genuinely didn't see it coming.

Which is great but I'm also surprised by the surprise. 😆

16. What are your writing weaknesses?

Finishing what I start. Updating regularly.

17. What are your thoughts on writing dialogue in other languages in a fic?

I've occasionally had a word or phrase in another language (using my good buddy Google translate) but I try to keep it very limited because my knowledge of other languages is pretty limited. And a lot of language stuff bleeds into the culture and vice versa and I'd need either contact with someone who is native in that language or to spend a lot of time researching before I did anything super extensive.

So far I've only used some Spanish and it's been in fics (and being used by) Paulina.

I guess my take on using another language in a fic is to use it sparingly and only if it makes sense for a character to use/know the language.

18. What was the first fandom you wrote for?

Danny Phantom! It's my one true fandom! 😆

19. What’s your favorite fic you’ve written?

You want me to pick a favorite child? How can I? I love them all so much! 😆

But seriously, I'm not sure. Last year I might have said Carnival Mythika, but seeing as I'm still trying to finish that one… >:|

I do also think fondly of Down Dog, because I came out swinging with angst on that one and now I'm flipping it to be more of a wacky hijinks of forcing two people to work together while also keeping secrets both a shared secret and their own secrets.

Oh and my DID au, Safety In Numbers, because I've been having fun incorporating and reinterpreting canon.

And the Port Amity au, Seaside Light Keeper, (that I know what happens next but no one else does cuz I haven't written yet)

Oh and Dante's fave, the Adopted Prince au! It is fun to write this big bad guy as being a total softie just because of Danny.

20. What fic are you most proud of?

First you ask me about faves and now who I'm most proud of? Oh no.

I mean the ones that are my faves are ones I'm proud of… 🤔

You know what? I think Lively Conversations In Dead Man’s Land is the one I'm most proud of. It's one of the first ones I ever wrote, one of the very few GrayGhost fics I've written and I still love it.

Tagging: @bibliophilea, @kawaiijohn, @aj-itated and anyone else who wants to!

#fan fic writer things #tag game #my writing #so many wips so little time

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marlinspirkhall · 4 years ago

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I literally just heard about Red Dwarf yesterday. Is it good?

Uh oh, looks like you asked Marlin about one of their hyper fixations! What happens next is your own responsibility.

It's pretty good; it falls into a weird place of being progressive for its time, but it's also pretty dated because of some of the sexist jokes & Doug Naylor's general inability to write women. He is excellent at accidentally writing gay characters, though, and it's a great comedy. The show has a lot of internal retconning and inside jokes about how much they ignore their own plot continuity. Here's a good Youtube Video by Council Of Geeks on her love for Red Dwarf which explains that further.

My favourite episodes are s1e2: Future Echoes, s2e5: Queeg, S3e3: Polymorph, s4e3: Justice and s4e5: Dimension Jump. My favourite season from the initial run is probably season 5, every episode is excellent, and season 6 has a certain bittersweetness to it because Rimmer leaves forever. (/j He comes back. Chris Barrie was just filming The Brittas Empire).

The show went on hiatus for a while after s8 before returning for "Red Dwarf X: Back To Earth", where they make reference to "season 9" being "the best run of the show", the joke being that it doesn't actually exist.

Trivia

After season 6, Doug Naylor had a huge fight with then-friend and co-creator Rob Grant, who then left the show. As a result the writing style changes a little, with cast member Robert Llewellyn, who plays Kryten, writing his character out of an episode so he could get a break from all the time in the makeup chair. (Another robot appears in the episode who's identical to Kryten, who Llewellyn plays. When he complained about having to spend double the time in the makeup chair, the other cast members told him it was his own fault, as he was the episode's cowriter.)

The cast are all good friends now, though Craig Charles and Chris Barrie, who play Lister and Rimmer respectively, both say they didn't like each other much at first (until about season 5, iirc?), which was part of the reason they were both cast for season 1. The creators were also apparently resistant to casting a scouser for the role of Lister, but he really wanted to play the role and pushed for it.

He also said in an interview that he was insecure during the filming of s1 because he thought Barrie was a better actor than him (which is true, to a point- Barrie was an impressionist on Spitting Image and gets plenty of opportunity to show this off in s1 episode "Better Than Life", and various other episode moments which rely on physical comedy. He also voices Red Dwarf audio books and does eerily accurate vocal impressions of the rest of the cast). The cast hold their own and balance each other well (and the American Pilot for Red Dwarf reveals how much this show depends on its casting and chemistry to make it work), and Danny John Jules, a trained dancer, brings a lot of energy to the character of The Cat.

Craig Charles was initially asked to read over the script to "make sure the character of cat wasn't racist", which is a surprisingly common theme when it comes to BBC script-editing, because it's also how the rapper and actor Doc Brown got his first acting job.

I typed all that from memory on tumblr mobile, so there may be some inaccuracies & I couldn't include as many links as I would like, but my sources are: The collectors editions of the red dwarf s1-8 DVD's, various interviews & all the blooper reels. Most of this material should be available online.

#infodump #sorry i didn't mean for it to get that long it just sort of happened #Red Dwarf

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atqh16 · 4 years ago

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Take My Hand (Say You Need Me Still)

A Daredevil Fic (Matt/Foggy, Girl!Foggy. Pre-Slash)

Summary : Look, getting shot is just the New York experience. You haven’t lived unless you’ve been held at gunpoint at least once. And if you save someone doing it? Hey, bonus!

First Chapter: AO3

“I had to exist without you”,

Foggy had whispered those words as if in a trance. Face turned towards the sky as if speaking to no one in particular. Her words had been unprompted. They had been simply been enjoying each other’s company that day after a long work week and a chance to relax at a barbeque courtesy of Luke and Claire.

It was a month after Fisk and 7 before the incident at the police station. Matt remembers the both of them lying on a mattress futon and a pile of duvets on the roof of Colleens Dojo. Foggys tone had been soft but Matt was so focused on her that it was enough to drown out the other sounds around them. Luke and Danny laughing where they were manning the barbeque grill. Misty and Karen comparing notes on Jessica’s recent client which she didn’t appreciate but didn’t seem to mind enough to make them stop as she nursed her Jack Daniels on the edge of their conversation. Misty talking sports of all things with Colleen who was wholly and very competitively invested in the New York Yankees.

But they had all turned into peripheral noise to Matt. He had pushed himself up. Fully turned his body towards her. Something Matt didn’t really have to do since there was no visual component in his interactions with the people around him but Foggy had always appreciated the gesture. A sign of assurance from her best friend that his attention was completely and undividedly on her. For her. She’s always been proud of herself for being able garner that kind of reaction from him.

But at that moment Foggy herself had seemed distracted. Even without being able to see it, Matt could tell that her eyes weren’t directed at him. She felt distant. Sounded distant. A mirror of what Matt had been feeling ever since he came back.

He hadn’t really understood why at the time. After all he’d gotten everything he ever wanted. Even more. His firm, his partner, his identity and most importantly his friends. Not just Karen and Foggy. His best friend had made sure of that when she dragged him to Jessica’s place and sat outside her office slash apartment door while Jess tore Matt a new one over what he’d done and proceeded to throw him out with a door slam so hard the glass panel shook.

That night Jessica called his burner later telling him to meet her on a roof top (What is it with roof tops?) because she needed his ears and to quote her “You owe me. Your ass better be here in an hour”.

Matt was there before the hour was up with 20 minutes to spare.

“Fucking Boy scout”, Jess had muttered under her breath but Matt smiled and tossed her a brand-new grey scarf.

“It’s the cheapest one at Walmarts”, he had said but the softness of the material and the tag said otherwise.

Matt hadn’t needed prompting to show up on Luke’s apartment door next and meeting Danny at the Dojo where the millionaire had proceeded to wipe the floor with him in hand to hand.

“I let you win”, Matt had panted, trying to catch his breath.

“Keep telling yourself that”, Danny sniped back, though there was no heat in his words, as he threw him a water bottle.

Matt woke up the next day sore, bruised and unable to wipe the grin off his face when he showed up at the office that morning to an array of extremely expensive looking bouquets congratulating their re-opening and heavily perfumed because Danny Rand is a passive aggressive dick.

But it also came with a 6 digit cheque from Rand Industries so none of them were about to complain. “A gift, from Rand Industries to the Firm of Nelson and Murdock. To hopefully new and better beginnings” was written on the envelope it came with.

Matt wished it had been as easy with Foggy. Not that either of them had given any resistance in efforts of reconciliation. But there were no ‘How To’s’ they could follow telling them exactly how to do that. No guidebooks detailing the steps needed to take to rebuild a bond that had gone through so much. The awkward bubble between them seemed to only grow more and more, stretched thin and fragile and so vulnerable to the slightest touch.

Until that night when after a few bottles of beers and a feeling of relaxed contentment that only came with a full stomach, Foggy whispered her confession as if asking for contrition.

Her words, though morose, held no acrimonious judgment. But the vestige of pain in them was bare and it had twisted Matt’s insides to hear it. It was such a simple phrase but it held so much and he knew instantly that it had been something she’d been keeping quiet. Out of shame, thinking that it was something she didn’t have a right to feel. Afraid that it might make Matt more distant.

But it was an admittance that Matt had realized he needed to hear. An honest fearless truth that was not spoken to condemn but instead a plea for him to understand where she stood. For him to know she was still bearing pain that she herself found difficult to admit. So afraid that Matt would recoil from her for it. But how could he. How could he punish such fearlessness when he knows how much he had taken from Foggy?

Both of them had made mistakes, but Foggy had been so patient. Matt had already taken and asked so much from Foggy who still tried his best to welcome him back with open arms. But Foggy had never been one to tip toe around Matt about anything. A habit that could be aggravating at times but it was always a cost he had been willing to pay for the intimacy that was brought forward from it.

And this was Foggy begging Matt to have that chance for intimacy again. As if she didn’t deserve to ask for it and it was a failure on Matts part that Foggy would harbour such hesitation.

Even through all his secrets and fear, Foggys openness about where she stood in regards to Matt had always been a beacon for him. A guide to teach him how to be a friend. Lessons he’d been deprived off the second his dad died. Matt had cast out the hope of ever achieving such a relationship. Already given up early on at the thought that he could ever receive the kind of easiness that Foggy offered and it was a miracle for him that she did. A miracle that they had met in Columbia and a miracle that through all Foggys annoying habits, that he’d been open to give her a chance. A choice that he would never have made if Foggy had been anything less than who she was. She in of itself was a miracle to him and Matt was deeply torn that he had made Foggy ever feel otherwise.

“I had only ever wanted a friend”

Foggys words from the night of their huge fight came back to him and while it might have been said in less than stellar circumstances, he knows even then that it had rung with truth. Foggy had never asked for anything more. How could he have failed to give her something so simple.

After a while Foggy finally turns her face towards Matt. He tastes salt in the air but doesn’t move to address it because he needs to focus right now. To really listen and conscientious, to what Foggy was trying to say. A lack in communication had after all been their downfall. Too much resentment over kept secrets and rancorous unspoken anger.

But there’s none of that hanging in between them now. Instead, Matt heard what wasn’t spoken loud and clear.

“Don’t leave. Don’t make me go through that again. Stay. Here, with me”

Matt doesn’t think there’s anything he can say that could live up as an answer to that so instead he creeps his hand forward to grasp Foggys in a sincere hope that his own words would ring with the same vulnerable truth that Foggy had offered.

“I’ll try”

Things had gotten better afterward. The honesty Foggy openly shows was an invitation for Matt to do the same. Not a demand and Matt will forever be grateful for that. But even so Matt still walks on eggshells at first. Not knowing what he was allowed to reveal. What was welcomed and what was not. Foggy like always, had put Matt at ease the way she always could.

It starts with an open invite to a home cooked dinner where Foggy made it clear that she wanted to know more about Matt’s abilities.

“If you want that last brownie you’re gonna have to impress me Murdock and for extra motivation, it’s a corner piece”

Matt had laughed, “I’m not sure what you’re asking here Nelson. I’m not sure I want to. The last time you gave me a dare I ended up doing the chicken dance in the college cafeteria”

“Boohoo, you deserved it after that stunt you pulled with the waffle incident. I’ve still got the burn marks to prove it. Now enough excuses and man up Murdock”

The banter might have sounded harsh to a stranger’s ears but it held such a familiarity that Matt rejoiced every second and every word. But despite all that he was still so scared to ruin what they were trying to rebuilt. Scared to run Foggy off with ‘too much’.

Foggy had again, nudged him into it gingerly and with such patience that Matt hadn’t found it in him to deny her.

She asked him to talk about what he could taste in the food she’s cooked. At first Matt was afraid to criticize but Foggy had started doing so herself. Once after a dinner Chicken Paprikash of all things, she asked if Matt sensed the yoghurt that used was close to getting bad. Matt tentatively had noted that it wasn’t rancid but it was definitely way past its prime days. Foggy wasn’t annoyed, instead she breaks the tension and laughing, jabbing about how horrible some parts about Matts senses must be. About the embarrassing things he’s had to endure.

To Matt’s surprise, the topic of his abilities became a favourite thing to talk about whenever they spent time together.

“Are you saying everytime I found you staring into space in your room it was because you got contact high from your stoner neighbour 5 rooms away from your dorm?”

Matt had groaned and dropped his forehead onto his folded arms in embarrassment. It was enough of an answer Foggy needed.

“Oh my God, you turned them in! Matthew Michael Murdock you tattle tale”

“It wouldn’t be such a problem if they didn’t get stoned every night. It was barely a secret anyway. The corridor reeked from it and personally I think I did a public service”

“Did you snitch on me bringing snacks into the library too?”

“No Foggy, that was all the crumbs you didn’t bother cleaning off your dress everytime we passed the librarian. She could probably smell the Cheeto dust on your fingers a mile away”

“I knew it! You threw away my Cheetos stash didn’t you!”

“They’re like cheese dust bombs! They were more chemicals than actual food. I did you a favour”

“And here I was thinking Tanya was stealing them from my bag during civics”

“The girl who sat beside you? Oh, she stole food from you all the time. You left your bag unzipped, it was inevitable”

“And you never told me?!?!”

“Most of the things you had in there were junk food. It’s no wonder you were on a sugar high all the time”

“In my defence, Redbull and Twinkies are a perfectly good way to combat law school stress”

“Oh god the Twinkies!”

“Don’t you dare go after Twinkies!”

Just like that the tension brought from the elephant in the room that was Matts powers was broken. Foggy made a game out of Matt trying to guess all the ingredients she’s used on nights that she cooked. Matt had initially protested on the unfairness of it all but eventually stepped up to the challenge cause he’s a competitive bastard and Foggy knows it.

“How am I supposed to know what kind of nuts you used in the Pad Thai??? I can barely afford anything other than ground nuts”

“Excuses. You haven’t suggested anything else either”

“I know you used Italian basil instead of Thai”

“Whats the difference?”

“Thai basil has a sharper taste”

“And more expensive”

“Authenticity is important. We don’t want to get sued for cultural appropriation and all”

“Oh look at me, I’m Matt Murdock and I can only eat fancy organic Thai Basil”

“It doesn’t matter, I won. Now give me my brownie Nelson!”

“Bite me Murdock!”

Matt won 9 times out of 10. The game was rigged and they both knew it but they usually ended up splitting the last piece of whatever dessert they had for the night anyway so it was never really about winning. Not for either of them anyway. On nights when there were no sugary delicacies waiting for them after their meal, if Matt won, he got to pick what they did after dinner. Watch a show, listen to an audio-book, play games before he had to leave for the night for patrol. Foggy never complained except for an over exaggerated whine or two at Matts predictability.

It’s fun, intimate. They don’t just focus on the fun stuff either. Matt had wanted to get even more intimate. He was tired of carrying all his secrets and for once he was the one who took the leap to trust that foggy wouldn’t run.

So, one night Matt finds himself stumbling into Foggys apartment after patrol. It was closer and he had a concussion. He was surprised when Foggy didn’t freak out like he expected and actually knew how to handle the situation. Like she’d prepared for it. She got some lessons from Claire who owed her for helping Luke. She doesn’t talk about when she started doing it or why. Matt didn’t know if he was ready to hear the answer either.

“You know, I could always keep my window unlocked. If you ever… ya know, need to come over”

“I don’t want to wake you”

“I always sleep late anyway and besides; I’d rather know you have somewhere to go if you need to then........”, Foggy trails off but Matt doesnt need to be a psychic to know where her thoughts had went.

“I don’t want to make thing’s hard for you", he says back and they both know he didnt just mean waking her up late.

“Matt, I want to.”, Foggy had said, firmly as she smoothed the Arnica cream over his newest bruise.

Her heart had beaten with a steady thud of truth, truth, truth.

It was comforting to know that Foggy wasn’t soaked in fear and disapproval the way she used to be before, and he did come over sometimes. Once or twice a week to get his ribs bandaged properly when they were bruised or some cuts stitched. Matt can tell Foggy’s nervous and queasy about the stitching but she soldiers on anyway and it reminds him of Maggie telling him how she had done the same for his dad when they were together and the similitude makes a roll of warmth coil around his insides like a soothing balm. It feels right.

He realizes when he gets home as is drifting off to sleep, that it’s not something he’s ever had with Elektra either.

“Foggy, I need to tell you something”

“Hmmm?”

“About midland circle”

“Matt-”

“I need you to know, why I stayed. Why I didn’t try to come back.”

“Matt, you don’t-“

“Foggy please. I need to do this”

“Ok Matty. Fire away"

“It wasn’t about you, or Karen. Maybe that’s hard to believe. I’m not gonna lie and say it wasn’t selfish of me because it was. I hurt you. You gave me the suit and you trusted me and I let you down. But you have to know Foggy, it wasn’t because of you”

Matt had ducked his head in shame

“Truth is I wasn’t thinking about anything else at that moment. I’m impulsive, we both know that. You’ve always known that. I was so overwhelmed by the fact that she was alive that I-“

He gulped.

“Did I tell you how she died? The first time?”

“No”

“It was because of me. She took a knife to the chest for me and she died in my arms and it was my fault Foggy. It was my fault. The worst part is, she’d told me beforehand that she wanted to stay with me. She wanted to try and she died in my arms because of me. I heard her heartbeat stop and it was because of me and I couldn’t… I couldn’t move Foggy."

He remembers feeling his eyes water, struggling to keep them from flowing into streams down his cheeks. But he couldn’t stop the way his voice choked.

“And I heard her heart beat that day when I found out she was alive. The way she moved, the familiar scent of her and how warm she was whennever she was close. She was so alive and I was desperate to save her this time. When she refused to leave Midland, I couldn’t leave her behind. I couldn’t leave her alone. I couldn’t let her die because I couldn’t save her for the second time. I couldn’t foggy. Everything was falling apart around us but I held her and she was so alive. I couldn’t let that go. I’m sorry Foggy. I’m sorry I hurt you. But I can’t be sorry for staying with her”

“Matt I’m not angry”

He’d perked up at that.

“I mean I was initially. Went through all 5 stages of grief. Thought a lot about beating you up if I ever saw you again. Blamed myself for letting you go. For not giving you a stronger reason to stay-”

“Foggy-”

“I understand why you did it now. But back then all I could think about was how you’d left me. You broke your promise and you left us and I kept having nightmares of how you were probably still alive and had just fucked off to god knows where with her. It took me too long to realize I’d rather you were alive then dead even if you had”

“You had a right to say no when I asked for help. I stole your wallet. I took advantage of you the second I saw you again. It was a dick move on my part”

“Oh, trust me, it definitely was and I’m not gonna let you forget that for a very long time. You owe me so many favors. But I got you back Matt. I’d asked for only one thing ever since I lost you and I got you back. How could I turn my back on that? You’re so good Matt. I know you don’t believe it but you are. Even if I was pissed, I knew you were doing things for a good reason. I knew it was because you were helping people and I’m a damned lowlife if I even thought of turning my back on that. I’m not angry at you Matt. You’re my best friend. I’m not gonna lie and say I’m not gonna stomp off again if we get into another huge fight. But I can promise I’ll always try to come back. Maybe it’s not right for me to ask you to trust that. I know enough about your past to know that’s not an easy thing for you to do……...”

“You’re the one person I trust the most, Foggy”

“Karen-”

“- is a good friend. But she hasn’t stuck around and followed me into making stupid decisions for the past ten years of my life. If there’s anything I regret, it’s not trusting you with my secrets. For hurting you with them. If there’s anything I’d redo it would be that”

“We don’t know if I would’ve been open to accepting that back then. Heck, I don’t even know what I would’ve done if you did tell me. You had good reason to worry”

“After everything, I should’ve taken the chance. There’s no one I trust more in this a world than you Foggy. Maybe that’s hard to believe considering how many promises I’ve broken. But I’m going to do everything I can to keep this one"

“…… Thank you, Matt”

It had taken everything in him to admit it, but after all they’d been through. After all Foggy had given him. Foggy had earned the right to it. That part of him. He expects to feel fragile and small afterwards but instead he feels lighted. Just like before, it felt right. This was the path they were destined to be on. The path they both have worked hard for. Foggy had returned his vulnerable revelation by sidling up to him. Intertwining their fingers and leaning to the side to place a soft peck on his temple. Matt couldn’t find it in him to pull away. They stayed that way in silent comfort until they’d both nodded off. Her head fitted to the crook of his neck and Matt’s own resting on hers.

Matt had woken up first the next morning to Foggys head on his lap. A soft and unladylike snore whistling pass her lips and he remembers how it had annoyed him to no end through their first year of law school, on nights when Foggy had fallen asleep from exhaustion on Matt’s bed after a night of unending studying with him in his room. But after a while it had become a familiar comfort, accompanied by the beating thrum in her chest. An unexpected lullaby especially on nights when both of them were overwhelmed. Matt had a single room and Foggys roommate was never around, preferring to stay at her boyfriend’s place most nights. They switched between each other’s room every other night, more and more often but it never felt invasive.

Matt hopes Foggy knows how important her presence had been for him at the time.

He hadn’t attempted to wake her up that morning from her peaceful slumber even as his legs felt numb from the weight. Instead, and he stupidly hadn’t realized why he’d done it at the time, he found himself gliding his knuckles on her cheek, realizing in that moment how long it had been since they’d been this close. How much he had missed it. Touch starved in a way he hadn’t felt in a long while since they met.

This progress, this newly attained intimacy doesn’t stop. There is a relief in being able to talk to his best friend again about every part of him that he had always feared she wouldn’t accept. Not just about the heavy, things either. Even the small, minute, careless details.

To Foggys credit, she bares herself raw the same way he does.

“How did you get so good at cooking?”

“I take offence to that. I was always a talented cook”

“Pancakes and grilled cheese sandwiches maybe.”

“Hardy har. And you can boil an egg, good for you.”

“Seriously, curry noodles? I didn’t think you even knew where the spice section was”

“It was… it was actually after Midland. I couldn’t sleep sometimes and I’d stay up watching cooking channels and I gave in and just started actually making them myself. I started small but I got used to handling things after a while. It was actually… therapeutic”

“Foggy…. I-“

“Matt stop, seriously. I meant what I said. I’d rather have a life with you and all the adrenaline fueled bullshit, then a quiet life without you. Always. So, don’t worry, ok? We’re good. I promise”, Foggy had ended her little speech by reaching out to tap her fingers in a comforting rhythm on his knuckles and Matt had asked himself for the hundredth time since he got back, what he’d done to deserve such loyalty.

“Also you’re washing the dishes and paying for lunch tomorrow”

Matt had let out a burst of laughter, “Haven’t I been paying for lunch anyway?”

“And you’ll keep paying for lunch until further notice. Besides, you’re getting a free home-cooked dinner almost every other night so I’m not going to hear a peep out of you”

He’d raised his hands in a mollifying gesture, “No arguments here”

“And none of that healthy stuff too”

“Damn"

The catholic part of him that latched on to guilt too close, wasn’t satisfied. Not even close. He’d done too much, made too many mistakes. He didn’t deserve what Foggy and even Karen for that matter, were giving him. A step onto green grass that promised him sanity in exchange for something as simple as him pulling down his walls for them. To not push them away. And if that’s what Foggy asked for then Matt was going to teach himself to give it to her, even as he he itched from old habits to pull back behind said walls.

It takes 6 months for them to go through all the unsaid baggage that had been floating in the water like leftovers from crash created by their past mistakes. But at the end of it all, Foggy poked her head into his office again and told him to hurry up if he wanted her to do any actual cooking.

“I feel like I’m being sabotaged”,

“You don’t need me to do that”

“Well, that’s not very helpful”

“I mean, I didn’t tell you to try make dinner rolls from scratch, did I?”, Matt had said with a tone of faux pettiness.

“That was not my fault! I didn’t know cats could smell the yeast all the way from the alley! Ruined a perfectly batch of dough. I spent 20 minutes kneading!”

“I told you to close the window. Fair is fair, I didn’t know cats liked yeast either, I’ll give you that. So, what’s on the menu tonight?”

“Well, you made Italian last week and I’ve been exchanging gossip with Mrs Yong for a while now….”

“Getting tips from your Vietnamese neighbour is cheating”

“Do you want to eat or not?”

“I’m guessing Pad Thai?”

“Couldn’t afford your oh so expensive cashews that you just have to have. Its Pho!! We are having Pho tonight! I spent 6 hours simmering a potful when I was going through the Jenner case last week and now, I’ve got enough frozen pho in my freezer to serve 8! I mean, I did have enough for 8. It’s more like 3 now. Maybe 3 and a half”

“Is that what you were passing to Karen and Mrs Adli yesterday?”

“Karen needs to eat more if she keeps spending her nights consorting with Jessica Jones. God knows what diet Jones is on. I gave Karen extra to pass to her so hopefully she’ll see it as incentive to keep giving us tips. We definitely can’t afford her”

“I’m sure you can charm a few more favours out of her. And Mrs Adli?”

“Oh yeah, her kids sick were with the flu and from what Mrs Yong told me, Pho has magical healing powers that can beat chicken soup any day”

“You didn’t eat the rest, did you?”

“Boo hoo, shame on you. Unlike you, I know how to bribe our friends. I gave some to Claire and Brett. He looked like I was trying to poison him”

“To be fair you did once”

“I was 5! He wanted to play Mommies and Daddies and I might have been overzealous about preparing dinner”

“You know if he finds out you told me he’ll have you thrown in Rykers himself”

“Which is why if you want any of that Pho yourself, you’ll keep yourself quiet you dick”

The air between them had turned so light and easy. Every morning Matt woke up beaming with joy at the simple thought of being able to just be with her so close throughout his day and every night he was lulled to sleep by the memories left from it.

There were no more walls. No more fear or doubt. Not with her. Not anymore.

“I went to see Maggie today.”

“Yeah? How is she? I haven’t met her yet”

“She’s fine. She wanted to wish me Happy Birthday”

“That sounds nice”

“Yeah……. She gave me her ring. The one my dad gave her. It was one of the few things she had from my dad and she wanted me to have it”

Foggy had stayed silent for a moment before responding, “That was nice of her”

“Yeah. It’s nothing fancy. Doesn’t have a diamond or anything. It’s just a smooth gold band. But she said my dad saved up for months to get it. It sounds just like him. She wanted to talk with me a bit longer but I just…. Couldn’t. I think I hurt her feelings when I left”

“You don’t owe her anything Matt.”

“It was rude”

“Matt, hey, I need you to listen ok. I need you to listen to my heart. Are you listening?”

Matt remembered how his throat had tightened so he had just nodded to the question.

“I love you Matt. You’re my best friend. I will always love you. But you need to know, hey, listen buddy. You need to know that you never have to earn that from me. Not from me, not from Maggie, not from Stick, not from anybody”

“I could’ve tried harder”

“You shouldn’t have had to. You were just a kid”

“Didn’t stop them from leaving”

“And it was their fault, not yours. You didn’t deserve any of it.”

“I’d asked them to make it stop.”

“What?”

“It was after Midland. There were two guys, trying to hijack a car. I couldn’t beat them so I asked them to make it stop. To just.. end it.... end me. It was so pathetic Foggy-”

Mat hadn’t realized she’d moved from her seat until her arms were around him. Her grasp was gentle but Matt got the feeling that hell or heaven couldn’t tear her away no matter how hard they tried.

She was on her knees beside him where he was sitting on the couch. One hand pulling his body to her chest and the other caressing the side of his head. Nose buried in his hair, whispering softly, “No Matty, no. Never. God, you’re so good Matt. So brave. So strong. It’s ok to not be sometimes. I’m here. I promise. I’m right here”

For some reason, Matt had let out a startled laugh but he had felt something wet streaming down his face and suddenly he was choking on sobs. His own arms folded around her middle and he lets go. Lets himself sink into her, head buried into her shoulder, not thinking even for a second that it would be enough to cover up how loudly he was crying. But Foggy hadn’t said a word. Once upon a time he might have felt indignant at the idea of being so vulnerable with someone like that. He hadn’t been this open since Elektra and look how that turned out. Elektra herself had been different. He loved her. He still loves her. Loves how comfortable he felt in her presences. Unguarded and free.

But unguarded and comfortable was different than allowing himself to feel and appear weak. To let someone see the broken and jagged pieces that made him who he was and not be afraid to be judged for it. Elektra never made him feel like home. At least not the kind of home his dad had given him as a kid. Safe. At ease.

Loved.

They fell asleep that night like that. Lying on the couch, Foggys arms wrapped around him tights and close. His head tucked in the dip of her clavicles. Curled into her and knowing with absolute certainty that she wouldn’t ever let him go.

Matt woke up the next morning to the smell of pancakes and the annoying tap of Foggys fingers on his cheeks.

“Wake up sleepyhead. The pancakes are getting cold and I don’t want to hear you whining about it”

For a second Matt had refused to open his eyes even as the corner of his lips were pulled up.

“Five more minutes mom”

“Very funny. Catch me making you breakfast again you ungrateful prick”

Matt had let out a disgruntled groan but relented to push himself up with an over exaggerated stretch.

“You owe me groceries for this”, Foggy sing songs, pushing a plate stacked with pancakes, dripping with an unhealthy amount of syrup just the way Matt liked it. It’s one of his most unhealthiest guilty pleasures but fuck him if every bite didn’t have him melt with sinful pleasure.

“It’s the least you could do with how you had half my ass hanging off the couch last night”, Foggy continues as she digged into her own stack.

“It’s not my fault your apartment is so warm. I was practically cooking”, Matt had clapped back but was half-hearted and said through a juvenile muffled mouthful of his breakfast.

“Price of being the little spoon my friend”

Matt indulged her with an eye roll but he’s much too distracted with his breakfast to keep up the banter. Foggy sneakily pushes the extra plate pancakes forward followed by the bottle of organic syrup that was way too obscenely expensive for her budget but so very worth it to see Matt light up animatedly with a child-like glee at the taste of it on his delicate taste buds.

They had continued their banter a bit more over a steaming cup of coffee and all the while Matt realizes in that moment that he felt truly and incandescently happy with his life and where he was then compared to how where he was just six months before and a large part of it was because of Foggy. Karens acceptance of him had been great. But foggy knew him more than anyone. It’s Foggy that despite their decade long friendship, he’d disappointed and hurt and let down over and over and the fact that Foggy was still there, a constant unerring affirmation of his worth. That if there was someone in his life that could love and stick around the way foggy had then life was definitely worth living no matter what it threw at him. Foggy who’d given something no one else had. Not even Elektra.

Matt truly and utterly realize that Foggy at that moment, after so much time and effort on both their parts, truly knew him better now, more than anyone ever did. And with it Foggy had given him something he hasn’t felt since his dad died

And its not just the happiness. It’s a deep rooted and affection of what they have. Of what they’ve built through it all. . It’s a fondness. Its an appreciation. It’s a love that has driven right down to his core, so deep that its become part of his being. Its… wait… oh…. OH….. oh shit.

#foggymatt #foggy nelson #matt murdock #Daredevil #mine #my writing

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