#this is also all related to having issues with codependency too btw which i do because my whole family does

[13eyond13]

.

[aliusfrater]

almost all s8 opinions regarding sam make me want to tear my hair out but what do you make of the takes that we can't really blame sam for s8, mainly not looking for dean/quitting hunting because it was "out of character"?

not just the you know who shippers who say this either btw I've seen so-called sam stans say the same

the evidence to this claim always seems to be that jared supposedly didn't like it either (which may very well be true idk the source) but I have to wonder if jared only said that or something similar because fan reactions to s8 sam began affecting him too

quite simply, i just don't agree with or enjoy interpretations that genuinely and earnestly refer to it as sam 'not looking for dean' in any context that's intended to be from sam's point of view because that's very much what dean considers it to be because he knows that he wasn't dead in the soul-had-left-his-body sense and he considers sam's adherence to his own perceived death as abandonment which is the major culprit of his own, sam's as well as the narrative's perpetuation of the idea that sam 'didn't look for him'. like this exact idea from sam's own pov is touched on in the first episode of season eight when sam is at his most confident in his independence away from his and dean's relationship:

then based on bobby's reaction to sam's own recount of dean's death to bobby in 8.19, it does seem evident to me that sam neglects to retell his own pov and he tells bobby that dean was in the same purgatory they were currently in, which is why bobby reacts with disbelief (because if you knew where he was, why didn't you attempt to save him?) and why sam's response is to bring up the previous 'agreement' he and dean had about death.

i have my own qualms about bobby's disillusionment re: the agreement as a 'non-agreement' and that he 'taught [sam] that' based on the actual events of 6.01 and the fact that bobby does indeed leave dean out of hunting at sam's will and the only plausible point at which it could have become a non-agreement is during the 6.11 and 6.12 conflict that is regaining sam's soul (without sam's consent, twice fold, but i consider soulless!sam to be more of a direct victim of being resouled than i do sam because of his active agency against it. sam's agency was preceded in his dying wishes and are therefore passive). bobby's reaction does, however, add to the already narratively skewed perspective of sam's decision where there is already that prioritisation of dean's 'didn't look for me' on account of the fact that bobby's own role as patriarch does narratively match dean's, along with bobby's position as a character who is narratively third to sam and dean's relationship (which then then bleeds into both sam's and the fandom's own interpretation of it, i think; sam also begins to doubt his decisions more which is also related to how the trials turn into his own suicidal ideation).

the conflict regarding which brother takes on the trials is very much foundational within sam's own view of a light at the end of the tunnel and his desire to leave the life and dean, at multiple points, within conversation about why he should be the one to do the trials, reiterates sam's own desire for normalcy away from hunting, within what dean himself desires for sam's life, which bring us back to the root of the issue that is dean's fear of abandonment (8.03, 8.14).

sam's own desire or attempt to leave the life seems to be fundamentally Wrong or is at least disproved of until dean approves of it/whenever it's part of dean's ideal for sam. 8.01, "so… free will, that's only for you?" the greatest sin is to disobey your patriarch; i think the culprit here re: sam's own person, just like it was with season four and the beginnings of soulless!sam, seems to be sam's rejection of the dynamics of his and dean's codependency in favour of his own attempt at independence. there's also the idea that dean would rather complete the trials that have a possibility of death than have sam go through the trials, die, then 'leave' dean to face the idea of living a life without sam—and he attempts to make this decision by on his own, without sam's input.

generally, i don't believe sam needs any excuse(s) to live a life outside of dean but the narrative's own facilitation of sam back into the non-role (the struggle to fit into the role) of his and dean's relationship, the dichotomy of monstrosity, the cycle of abuse, the patriarchal structure etc. etc. after his attempts at independence are endlessly interesting to me and although this isn't yelled at you through explicit exploration, i do consider aspects of sam's history with mental health to be relevant within several aspects of season eight, but mostly being related to sam's decision to leave hunting specifically within the context of the year between seasons seven and eight (especially after all that is seasons three to seven) as it's explored in 8.08. ultimately though, i think the major aspects of sam's decision to leave revolve around 1) grief and sam's avoidance of his grief, which is pretty well represented by his initial reluctance to name riot and explored through sam and amelia as mirroring characters (how blatant it is pisses me off a little),

and 2) the very basic building block regarding sam as a character that is his desire to leave the life. quite generally, i think the fact that through dean's own conflation of family and hunting (on account of john's own pov that through choosing college over hunting, sam had also chosen college over family) as well as dean's own pov prioritised through his and sam's relationship along with the previously mentioned structures, the idea that sam, too, is therefore unable to leave the life or subvert any of these structures without it being perceived as leaving dean or forsaking family is pretty neglected within a lot of interpretations of sam as a character. i think dean very much keeps sam tethered to the life either through sam's own ability to choose dean and their conflated lifestyle over something/someone else (later season one, season two, three, later nine to fifteen) (there's also the guilt tripping) or as a result of being preoccupied in a way that inhibits his idea of normalcy (his monstrosity in seasons four and five), but on account of the dynamics and his and dean's relationship, sam is unable to reject their codependency which perpetuates hunting and SamAndDean as existing synonymously. i mean, even when sam was hunting without dean as soulless!sam, on account of the agency and autonomy sam was able to achieve due to the differences between s!sam and sam's priorities due to the difference between then (the soul lol), s!sam's rejection of his and dean's relationship did become evidence for his monstrosity. which is, of course, punishable by (possible) death should dean decide that the dichotomy will not stretch to accommodate said monstrosity.

season eight, to me, is when these characters first start feeling a bit like cardboard, especially due to how wittled down to its core sam and dean's dynamic is represented. this is the most boring and basic version of How They Work at this point in the show and even then people explain their simple and cardboard-ish behaviours away with explanations like saying they're 'ooc'. sam's state of mind is pretty straight forward if you know where to look; sam taking his entire family's death as his sign that he's able to leave the life is not out of character to me at all. kill the supernatural appointed patriarch in your head.

[dangermousie]

I love how she can automatically tell which one is him, but also so much of Ling's bucket of trauma is filled because he never truly developed a sense of self outside of Sheng and then Sheng killed himself and...well. (Something I found very very telling btw is that he doesn't let the nun who asked after his brother know that his brother is dead because she's a nice person so why upset her. So often when we have a ML with trauma and/or "wild," the narrative views it as a license for them to be a bastard. Ling has serious issues and he's very laddish (to use a British term), but he is consistently a decent person on a very basic level. It's what makes this whole relationship possible. One can be happy with a person who has issues but not a person who's cruel or mean.)

Since this is a rewatch, ummm ummmm UMMMM UMMMMMMMM. It's so interesting to me that both QL and Tong Dao are twisted mirrors of Sheng - QL a lighter one - the one who actually is the way Ling viewed Sheng as - and TD an openly psycho one. Sheng was...well...a better covering up TD (and his obsession with his bro was not sexual, obviously) but the older I get, the less ugh I feel about him because just like Ling, he was failed by every adult around them - the adults basically ensured the two twins would have a codependent relationship and seeing the amount of mental illness and trauma in Ling's family and anyone's lack of any attempt to do anything about it until they really jumped off the cliff much too late and then overdid it the other way and stuck Ling in a literal straight jacket and asylum for violently insane...well, not a fan of Sheng but kid had no chance. (Side note, I love the drama having no issue by giving its ML the OTP that is explicitly the non-related, girl version of the idealized version of his twin; a person whose death left him with a psychic wound and was the last straw for a lot of stuff that was already there - his trauma was in a way fixed by having that relationship restored only now romantic and healthy.)

If QL was "normal," I'd perhaps tell her to consider if she wants to get into a relationship with someone who collapses with a full on panic attack due to hallucinations (!!!) because that is a lot of heavy lifting, but her demons are just as bad if different and the narrative is very good at selling me on the fact that nobody else would do for either of these very damaged, very idiosyncratic people. So much of this story is about mirrors - in the most basic way, Ling and Sheng being identical twins, but also Tong Dao and Ling, Qi Luo and Sheng, but ultimately, Qi Luo and Ling are the biggest most complimentary mirrors.

I love that she lost it only after she competently administered first aid. I love her. And I love that he apologizes for her terror. Honestly, they are both so very decent, on a very fundamental level.

When she asks him to come back to college because she now enjoys going and he looks like he's melting...

I loved this bit, where she tells she wants to watch him go because every time he leaves, she is worried she won't see him again and I think it's like a hammer to his walls because she has seen him at his darkest (strangling Ah Bin), most honest (talking about his twin or psych ward) and most damaged (collapsing) and she still thinks he hangs the moon. Being loved as opposed to lusted over or whatever is heady enough, but being seen and being loved for that is...for someone with his issues, it's catnip. (This is the first time he can actually be weak around someone and for it to be OK - for everyone else he's either a status symbol due to looks, a nuisance (fam), needs to be protector (Sheng) or just doesn't let them in (everyone else) but here is QL and it's amazing for him.)

The way she quietly waits, awwww. PS I love that Daye is not pining for her in the least. He gave it his best try, it did not work out and he is all "well, moving on." God, he is so sane. In a lot of ways, he's the best person in the story, even if not suited for QL, and I am so happy he gets his own love and happiness.

[astudyinsarcasm9]

Steven Universe The Movie - Review - a confused mess - SPOILERS!

I’m still thinking about the movie and I still can’t properly say why I didn’t wholeheartedly like it. It’s complicated. 

On one hand I liked the animation, I loved Spinel and I loved seeing the uncorrupted gems roaming around Beach City but that was about it. 

I understand the tone this series has and where it has positioned itself and knowing that of course I knew how the movie would end, pace itself and handle its characters but it was still rather disappointing. 

But let’s start things off. 

What did I like?

Spinel - her animation, design, voice and song, the only song I liked, apart from the song Pearl sang when she was reset. 

The concept of the Rejuvenator - I think it’s brilliant. Considering that we long thought of gems as being like computers it makes sense that you could reset them to their factory settings. Though this does create some plot-holes I will address later. 

I loved how Spinel was not up for the whole talk it out and sing approach. refreshing. Though she did sing but on her own terms.

Loved the little homeworld bit but it does raise questions. 

The fact that they addressed the plot point of PD wanting a colony and waiting for it. Even though it was mentioned in passing.

The Pearl lore we got. How they re basically an OS when they are made.

Pearl sing-explaining.

Pearl obessing over Greg. HILARIOUS. BUT ALSO like a lot of implications for her relationship with PD.

And that was about it. I guess. 

What I didn’t like or understood

The Diamonds going from antagonists to obsessing over Steven and being those annoying relatives. I. mean the concept is hilarious and I love it but when you consider what the Diamonds did and who they are it gets unsettling. 

How the hell does Spinel know what a son is? Im pretty sure she wasn’t filled on the whole Rose/PD stuff unless Steven told the whooole story in that one transmission at the beginning of the movie. And even so it took the diamonds a whole while to understand the concept of a child and a parent. Apart from WD which is still unexplained. 

Where did Spinel get an injector? We can infer the whole plot takes place over the span of a day or so. How did a gem who used to be basically a Pearl get access to an injector?

For that matter, why and how is this injector different than the injector we knew of? One pops in gems in the earth’s crust and the other just up and destroys the planet? 

Why did Amethyst behave that way once reset? I mean in ”Now we’re only falling apart”, we saw first hand how the other Amethyst were emerging, full fledged and self-aware and able to talk. And ok she was overcooked but overcooked doesn’t mean talking like a parrot. Does it? We received no indication prior to this that that was the case. If anything we knew gems just popped out already knowing who and what they were supposed to be. 

I’m getting real tired of the whole Garnet is true love, when she isn’t. I love her, I do but she became her fusion and Ruby and Sapphire are neglected as a result. Even in Change your mind when they are in their gems as a result of being poofed by YD, Steven doesn’t call for them but for Garnet. Way to go Steven. Ok, Sapphire saved Ruby this time and they are meant to be together but what they are displaying is love at first sight and codependency ( as WD put it) . 

Steven really seemed like a jackass in this when interacting with Spinel. He didn’t care for her, didn’t care for her feelings. He wanted her to go back to normal just so she can remove the injector and when she called him out on that he said that yeah that was kinda it. She was just in the way.  When she was nice and hanging around Steven never showed her anything but annoyance. I think maybe once or twice he softened to her but that was it.He was more focused on bringing back his friends (legitimately so but still.) 

The fusion between Greg and Steven is...Look I know it’s an anime reference but it was so uncomfortable to watch. Idk why. 

Connie being useless throughout, appearing very little. despite her being awesome.

Bismuth, Peridot and Lapis being only comic relief and not contributing much to anything. Aside from Peridot who spoke about the injector a bit. 

Lars only briefly seen. 

The off-colors only having cameos here and there. 

And finally the fact that a fascist dictatorship was just dismantled and put aside without it having any consequence whatsoever. People just weren’t affected by it. Yellow just did away with her army and her colonies. 

It’s just...I understand the message SU is talking about, I understand it is this pacifist and friendly show. But like...I really felt like the movie was talking down to me,  like you would talk down to a kid who you think doesn’t understand stuff. 

Especially in the dialogue Steven has with the diamonds. Where they tell him their good deeds of the week. How they dismantled their armies, talk nice to lower life form and refrain from shattering gems. 

It’s like if someone wanted to scold Stalin over what he did and made him pinky promise he’d change nce his policies. 

Maybe I’m being too harsh but  there’s one thing to promote non-violence and a pacifist approach to conflicts and it is another thing to just apply that to every possible situation ever. It just doesn’t work. Dictators don’t turn nice over night just cus you’re related to them. 

Also, the end felt bittersweet. The Diamonds took Spinel not because they cared or whatever but because she used to be Pink’s and she reminds them of Pink and they have a spare room. And they are going to pour out all their issues on Spinel and make her fill a role instead of caring for her for who she is. 

Bonus: how tf is Spinel able to rotate her gem like that?  I thought Diamonds could cus diamond powers but some rando gem?

P.S. Doesn’t Little Homeworld feel a bit creepy to any of you? 

Like, I get they miss their home but all they’ve ever known ever since their creation was the genocidal dictatorship of the Diamonds. Why would you want any part of that close to you again? Much less live in it? I would’ve understood if, I don’t know those were homeworld gems who lived all their lives there and wanted a piece from there despite being such an awful place. 

But all those gems on Earth were, er...corrupted gems by the very regime they had back home. All of those gems thought a war with their Homeworld. Why would they want that on Earth?

Btw, are Yellow and Blue Pearl still slaves? Cus sure they looked happier but they were still serving the diamonds.

[whatthefuuuuuuccckkkk]

okay this is my last post I know I'm being very annoying and I hate to clog the tag but I just have to scream into the void for a while if you disagree or you're annoyed with me please just scroll past this rant thank you

- the hitman plot. god. we all hate that shit. what I realllllly hate is how long and drawn out it is. should've been one episode tops, like when dean tried it. I want to say, that obviously it's not gonna work bcz it would be stupid to kill off the character carrying the entire show, but at this point maybe they are gonna kill him off??? idfk. maybe it's a punishment for all the people (everyone) who like him. truthfully the whole "murder is our only way out of this" attitude is disappointing and seemingly out of character for all of the girls. Boomer attacked annie and they let him fuckin live. They knew he was a fuckin rapist piece of shit, and a regular piece of shit too, but couldn't kill someone. But apparently killing someone beth, at one point, felt some typa way about...smh..apparently that is A ok and they don't even explore other options or feel the least bit guilty?? even when they "mourned" boomer it was more about marion than him. But rio and his whole ass innocent child are not a thought at all??? Wild. Truly. Also....what do they think will happen?? If I were a gang leader's right hand the first person I would check upon seeing my boss get murdered would probably be the person who tried to murder him last time lmao. Do they really think they would get away with it? Even if they didnt get caught, they wouldnt be off the hook. Surely mick would just keep things going, with even less leeway. And what happens when their illegal activities bite them in the ass when Rio is gone? Who are they gonna blame everything on? Who is gonna clean up their mess? No one. And this whole "I'm not doing it, wait yes I am, wait no I'm not, wait I'm gonna do it" thing the hitman is doing is...not it. I'm assuming were gonna get an explanation about how he knew that this was a crime of passion (lol)

-beth beth beth......you know there is a theory floating around that she has serious ptsd and I actually would love to see that explored but that shit ain't happening lol. I'm tired of feeling like I'm analyzing her character. At what point is it too much. She's hard to read but I think it has crossed the line over complex and ventured into poor characterization. She's gotten chances and chances and I'm tired. And dean. God I'm tired. I feel like all season I've been watching beth do the same thing, play good wifey, risk her (and Annie's and Ruby's) life by doing stupid shit..and that's basically it. Face some fckn consequences for your actions please. Take some responsibility. I feel like the show is showing us inklings of...something...bubbling underneath the surface but it's not our job to fill in the blanks or interpret shit. I do not work for nbc. I'm not getting paid for this. What is this girl thinking trying to get rio to invest in hot tubs (bless her calling dean an idiot. fuck this show for making him suddenly a good salesman) while trying to kill him. Does she think he dies and suddenly she owns it?? Makes zero sense. Also unpopular opinion i dont like that she caused a scene with the pool ball. Like....of course he isnt listening to you....you shot him...3 times....then stole from him....and have been screwing him over repeatedly.

-dean just....no. I understand that beth has so much going on in her life right now that divorce isn't exactly on her mind and dean is the last trace she has left of a normal life so shes holding onto it for dear life.....actually no. I do not know if any of that is actually true or if I'm just interpreting wrong. Because the subtext and editing and parallels and all that would be fine and dandy but not when that's all the show is at this point. If dean cheating yet again is not gonna make beth leave him, nothing will. I want his screentime to be 30 seconds and nothing more.

-im just not invested in the boland children. Annie and ruby have both struggled real bad, but beth, the one in the deepest, has 4 children who are somehow unaffected by this?? Not to mention the whole divorce, wait never mind, oh look a gang leader hanging out with mommy again, oh look our house is empty, type stuff happening. Beth's kids should be going through it but for some reason they arent? Maybe it's because child labor laws or something lol.

- rio. At this point I'm rooting for him for than anything. But I genuinely do not know why he hasnt killed beth. She's proven herself to be more of a liability than an asset and I just cannot understand why he hasnt killed her. Unless it's the whole "feelings" route, which wouldve made him look dumb, but made sense based on what we were given. This is actually the direction I thought the season was going but now it just seems like he is a bad businessman lol. Obviously she cant die for the sake of the show, but its like they didnt even try to make it make sense. He definitely knows about the hitman btw. I dont really blame him for anything he's done with beth so far. He robbed her in retaliation. He had to cut her off when she started acting shady. 🤷‍♀️ he let's her get away with too much tbh. It's a shame that this character isnt being utilized. Its like they are banking on this mysterious aura to keep working, but we are 3 seasons in and it's a little old now. I personally think that they just don't know what to do with him now. Also can I point out how dumb he looks showing beth that he is doing business at the carwash, why would he give her more information than she needs when he is suspicious of her? I cant tell if I was happy with how unphased he looked about her outburst or if I wish he checked her.

-mick. Did his side plot with beth die? How does it seem like this show simultaneously moves through plots every episode but is also stuck in the same one for the entire season? I also think mick is not being utilized. As funny as it is for him to be a built in 3rd wheel all the time, they could do so much more. Like can you imagine if beth mouthed off or fucked up and mick checked her? The possible ways a plot like that could go...untapped potential.

-ruby. Ah...I remember when I thought her and stan's fight was dragging for too long. Miss those days. See even tho ruby and stan seem to have the same issue over and over it's not the same story. Pen cap, new job, sarah stealing, all the same fight, but with different stories. And it really seems like Ruby's always going through it but I appreciate the variety. Stan's storyline has been interesting but I dont know how much it relates to the central plot. Sarah....great. that actress is so talented and even tho shes an attitude machine (what preteen is not) i just love her scenes. Harry seems to be missing a lot. The hills are the only part I seem to enjoy anymore. Really wish the show would explore why ruby seems to be the one who keeps getting caught up with the law...I wonder what it could be....what is different about her..hm...

- annie. Backtracked so much. Wish she had a single plot that didnt revolve around men. Now shes trying to cheat on her GED. Where's the snark? Where's the wit? It seems like all she is now is a codependent insecure mess. And I'm tired of this fuckass therapist. I thought her study montage was gonna end in a "she didnt need anyone but family (:" lesson but it did not for whatever reason. I thought by bringing a therapist into the show it was gonna give us more of a look at Annie's and Beth's upbringing and relationship. Or help annie work through her issues, the boomer thing too. Or maybe lead to Beth's ptsd diagnosis. Therapy could've helped move the plot forward or help the characters grow, but it's doing the opposite of that. If its not contributing to the main plot, what is its purpose? To give annie yet another terrible love interest?

To summarize....I hate it here.

[the-cryptographer]

miranova23 (@kaiba-fangirl​​) replied to your photo:

Hey no prob! On mobile rn (& should be doing hw <.<) but as far as the ~controversial~ ships, I know they can still be aged-up or the ship name used for just any other kind of relationSHIP. Heck, most of the characters are canonically underage, and there's even the reveal of Seth & Atemu being cousins, buuut it's Ancient Egypt, & does that mean their reincarnated spirits count as cousins??? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ btw finally wrote out a long-time-coming brothershipping post. we seem to be on the same page though 👍 As far as ettushipping i don't really have anything else rn i guess... but I'll keep u in mind =)

It took me a minute to realise you were referring to locketshipping aka tabloidshipping aka incesty Mokuba/Seto. For some reason, probably just wishful thinking, I thought at first maybe you meant battleshipping (Jou/Seto/Yuugi) or buddyshipping (Honda/Jou)...

I made the statements I did without really contextualising them within the context of the ygo fandom. It didn’t occur to me you were referring to a distaste for the fandom presence of certain ships or the way they’re presented. So... sorry I got kind of weird on you in the tags.

below the cut is tl;dr about controversial stuff and incest and sibling abuse

re: tags. I know people in fandom use the term ‘pedophilia’ as a catch all for... whatever they view as having the potential of including child sexual abuse. I personally think maintaining the distinction between pedophilic and ephebophilic attraction patterns (which people may or may not act on), and acts of child sexual abuse (for which attraction may or may not be a factor) is important. But really I knew what you meant when you said what you said, so I realised I was being pretty nitpicky. But also, even more generally, I think people should be free to write about controversial and potentially disturbing topics, so long as they realise what they’re doing and include proper tags/warning.

re: scandalship. Usually when I’m talking about incest ships I’m not talking about cousins. Not that cousin incest isn’t technically incest, but it’s allowed in most of the world today including some US states. And it doesn’t have the same kind of relational baggage as parent or sibling incest. The bigger part of what makes things incest in my mind is the person having been closely involved in the other person’s formative childhood development in capacity as a parent or sibling, and it almost without exception coincides with abuse. Malik/Rishid is an incest ship in my mind because Rishid was undoubtedly a brother to Malik during his upbringing. (Isis/Rishid is harder for me to make a call on because we see less of their relationship. It’s not clear whether they were raised together in an intimate proximity, or whether they really relate as siblings. So, depending on what headcanons you’re working with, I think both incestuous and non-incestuous interpretations of a romantic relationship between them could be valid.)

But, in terms of what you were talking about in your post here - I haven’t run into a lot of Mokuba/Seto personally - not enough to view it as some sort of fandom problem. But admittedly I haven’t gone looking for fics specifically featuring the two of them, so maybe that’s why. I know I’ve seen someone else also complain about the abundance of Mokuba/Seto in the search for gen fic, and I also had a similar experience pretty recently, so presumably it is a common fandom experience. I was searching through doujinshi on pixiv and opened something that I assumed to be Kaibros gen but was not. I had actually long since thought the internet has massively desensitised me to everything, but I actually shuddered irl. This isn’t to condemn the artist - admittedly I think everybody should label/tag things like that but I assume they did and I was the one that went around clicking links without taking the time to read the Japanese. But from a perspective of what I found disturbing was the kind of ease that you described in your post - that kind of moves between something I’d consider part of a very close and caring and acceptable sibling relationship, to something unacceptable that immediately undermines the validity of Seto and Mokuba hugging or sharing a bed in a nonsexual context, but also tries to capatalise on and continue off of the ‘cute’ vibes set up by what could have once been reasonably interpreted as a platonically intimate gesture, instead of a symptom of abuse.

(Yeah, for the record, I don’t think it’s abnormal for siblings to be physically affectionate to a degree. A lot of siblings aren’t as close as you and your brother, even siblings with more or less amiable relationships, but I agree it’s odd and unfair to assume that you guys can’t or shouldn’t be platonically affectionate. Otoh, though, I feel like it’s not always easy to spot a family resemblance, so I get how people may be confused. And also just wanna throw out there that sibling sexual abuse is more common than anybody wants to admit, and there’s a critical lack of attention towards the issue compared to rarer types of child sexual abuse, so it’s unfortunately possible that people are projecting their own unhealthy histories and dynamics onto you.)

But, hmm, there was another case I had where I ran into (appropriately warned for) Mokuba/Seto that I think handled the topic pretty delicately. It was about a Seto that had a plethora of sexual desires (including feelings for Mokuba) that he felt unequipped to find an outlet for - partly because of the ferocity with which he isolates himself and pushes away human contact. It was an unsettling story - but what made it palatable for me was the way both the narrative and Seto himself were keenly aware of how inappropriate acting on such desires would be. Seto’s guilt-ridden, convinced of his own monstrosity, and desperate to escape to VR (or wherever he can go to not deal with anything even remotely like an emotion). Seto immediately understands this attraction poses a threat and threatens to topple every way in which he’s tried to protect Mokuba. And Mokuba’s increasingly worried for his brother, and too naive to really understand exactly what the big deal is - even when Seto crosses the line and kisses him (and immediately pushes Mokuba away and runs off and curls up into a ball of self-loathing). And, when VR proves to be an insufficient method of escaping his own humanity, Mokuba finally convinces Seto to reach out to Yuugi, and Seto agrees because - even thought the last thing he wants to do is reach out to anyone - he cares more about remaining a good brother to Mokuba than maintaining the comfort of his own emotional isolation. So it becomes a reassertion of how much Seto values Mokuba as a brother and puts him first, rather than an expression of sexual violence.

I’m not saying this story is something for everyone (it’s not. it made me uncomfortable at times. and the solace that it was meant to make me uncomfortable was enough to soothe me, but I realise that’s not enough for everyone.) It also doesn’t blend with my personal headcanons, tbh, and it’s not something I would be interested in writing about with regards to Seto and Mokuba. But as a reader and letting the author take the reins, I enjoyed the fic, and I see the merit in it exploring the concepts it did. Far more than I see the merit in exploring Seto and Mokuba in the context of ‘aw, cute they’re hugging. now they’re kissing. uwu’ But, idk, I’m also not the arbitrator of what fiction has merit or isn’t too irredeemably creepy for anyone other than myself.

idk, like I said, I haven’t run into much Mokuba/Seto during my (mostly relatively recent) run of the fandom. Maybe it’s a bigger issue than I envisioned. And, well, I can’t stop people from creating fanart of Kaiba and Mokuba cuddling with whatever understanding they have of the circumstances behind the scene. But- yeah. I don’t support locket-/tabloid-/brother- shipping them in that manner. I’ve heard a lot of people just say ‘Kaibros’ to refer to Seto & Mokuba as a unit. But I don’t know if there’s a consensus on what people use as a tag for gen Seto & Mokuba things *shrugs*

(And, um, just more generally regarding the Kaiba brothers - I think they can be pretty unhealthily codependent, but no more than I’d expect two brothers having been through foster care and alone against the world to be. I don’t mean to undermine how important and loving and their relationship with one another has been, and how much it has been a saving grace for them.)

Anyhow, sorry for this upsetting tl;dr but- Thank you again! And, lol, yes! Keep me in mind for all things ettushipping related! And polarship and pupship and rivalship and battleship and 5000 other things tbh, lol.