#this is NOT about a lot of things like for example someone learned a BADL

[neurodivergent-mermaid]

Something I don't understand at all, is taking away some of the support and accommodations when things are going well?! Like surely if something is going well, you should keep those supports.

[autistic-answers]

Hello! Are you aware of any resources that go in detail about the levelling system? I was assessed as level two, and online that seems to be conflated with MSN but like... I don't *feel* MSN. I can't drive, and I rather doubt I'll ever be able to work full time, but I can work part time and I can handle basic tasks like bathing n cooking n stuff. A lot of the stuff mentioned as evidence that I'm level two isn't a support need - my sensory seeking often results in self injury, but no support is going to change that, for example.

I'm just. Confused. I thought I knew which part of the community I fit into and I was wrong and I don't understand why.

You've come to the right place! I've done quite a bit of research on this. Let me go over both concepts. I'll also link wiki articles that I've started; all my research is in there with sources.

Support need labels (like MSN)

These community-defined labels are a 2020s+ thing. They are based on activities of daily living (ADLs). There are 2 types of ADLs:

Instrumental ADLs (iADLs) are tasks like food prep, shopping, managing medical appointments, and more. Non-disabled people typically learn these around their teen years.

Basic ADLs (bADLs) are tasks like toileting, grooming, and bathing. Non-disabled people typically learn these in early to mid childhood.

With that in mind, here's a summary of what I've read:

LSNs can live independently. They can do most/all iADLs and they don't require a carer or support worker. Many need some mental health help and disability accommodations at work.

MSNs can't live independently. They need help with most or all iADLs and may need a little bADL help. Carers and/or support workers are crucial for their wellbeing.

HSNs need major daily support. They need help with many or all bADLs. Some require constant or near-constant supervision.

Co-occurring conditions like paraplegia or epilepsy can influence support need labels. People may also use subdivisions like "higher LSN" if it helps them.

I am a lower MSN. My parents are my carers and I imagine supported living is in my future. While my parents are trying to get me better at tasks like cooking and cleaning, it is not working.

These labels don't ask about skills like working, masking, or making friends. You'll see diversity in there. For example, I work part-time, I mask very little, and I have no friends. But other MSNs may be quite different.

Needs are real at any label. Having unmet needs is hard for any autistic person. And not being HSN doesn't mean your needs are less important. You're just more independent.

There's a wiki article that goes into greater depth, including info from a big community survey.

Autism levels

Autism levels are based strictly around autistic traits (at least in theory). They are in the DSM-5 and were created by experts. 2 levels are assigned, one for social communication and one for restricted, repetitive behaviors.

You're right that these are a bit different from support need labels. These are autism-specific and decided by a professional. You can read the DSM-5 definitions for these online.

Someone at level 2 isn't always an MSN. Some are LSN or HSN. Different combinations are possible, though level 1/HSN and level 3/LSN don't seem realistic.

Not all autistic people are given levels. Not all clinicians use them and they're more popular in the US.

Different websites may sometimes make up different things. I once saw a page claiming that level 1s don't have sensory processing issues. (Sounds fake.) The DSM-5 should be taken as the source of truth.

There's a wiki article about these too.