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virtualtadpole · 4 months ago

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A BL viewer's guide to Thai school uniforms

(This is an older one, originally posted at Reddit in 2022, but it should still be accurate. Hope you'll find it useful, as uniforms in Thai shows often provide context that international viewers might not recognize.)

To begin, here's a summary of the Thai school system. There are twelve years of basic education (after kindergarten): six years of primary school (prathom or P.1-6), and six years of secondary school (mathayom or M.1-6), the latter of which is divided into three lower and three upper years. The age range roughly corresponds to the US system, so the years P.1-6 will often be translated as grades 1-6 and M.1-6 as grades 7-12. Most stories set in school will take place during the upper secondary years, which is often translated as high school (though this is rather approximate as it spans three years rather than four). Students typically enter M.4 aged 15 going on 16, and graduate at the age of 18 (or nearing it).

School uniforms are almost universally compulsory, used by all but a few alternative schools (university will be discussed further below). They mostly follow a very distinctive form, which has barely changed since the end of World War II, as there's a default format that's mandated by law and followed by most schools (though schools may elect to specify their own style of uniform). There are official industrial standards that govern the material, thread count, etc. of student uniforms that can be sold, and an entire industry is built around them.

For boys, the (default style) uniform is mostly the same across all levels, and consists of a white short-sleeved button-up shirt, shorts (in either black, royal blue, navy, or khaki), a belt (brown or black), socks and shoes (brown with khaki shorts, white socks and black shoes otherwise). The shirt will have the letters of the school's abbreviated name embroidered at the right chest, in red for private schools, and navy for government schools. It's common for schools to also require student IDs or names be included likewise. In many schools, the upper-secondary uniform will also include the school insignia/logo as a metal badge pinned above the school's initials, or also embroidered.

The colours of the shorts typically reflect the school's status. Private schools will normally use blue or (less often) black, while government schools will use black or (less often) khaki, with very few exceptions. Navy is quite rare, mostly used by certain schools with historical royal connections. This colour-coding serves as a rather convenient tool for series creators to convey the social background of the characters. Blue shorts signify that they go to a private, presumably expensive school. Black is the default that tells the viewer that it's a regular, average school. Khaki shorts used to be the default long ago but have declined in use, and are now mostly seen as belonging to rural or temple schools (though there are also some famous schools that use them). You'll rarely see them in TV or film, unless the creators are purposely saying that the setting is rural, poor, or retro.

Let's look at some examples.

The school uniform in Bad Buddy is pretty much the bare minimum, with just the school's abbreviated name and no pin or ID. With black shorts and navy lettering, it's clearly meant to be a regular government school (though TBH the filming location doesn't really fit). The dot on the collar is a symbol used by some schools to indicate the year the student is in, based on the number of dots. One dot would mean they're in the first year of either lower or upper secondary, which might be differentiated based on colour, shape, or being on the left or right side. Here, Pran is clearly not 12/13 years old, so the year must be M.4.

In The Yearbook, the school uniform also includes the students' ID in Thai numerals below the school name, also quite a common thing. The navy lettering and the black shorts indicate that it's a government school, and the filming location and the teacher wearing the civil service uniform also hint that it's a rather provincial setting. The haircuts of the characters are also more realistic, as schools usually require a short tapered cut for boys.

The characters in 'Cause You're My Boy also attend a government school, in line with the working-class background. Mork is in upper-secondary, so his uniform as the school symbol embroidered above the lettering, while Gord and Morn's, who are in lower-secondary, don't.

Another example of a government school uniform with black shorts is found in Dew. This school also has the student's name embroidered over the shirt pocket. Dew's oversized shirt and long baggy shorts reflect the fashion trends of 1996, when this part of the story is set.

On the other hand, Hormones follows middle-/upper-middle- class kids at a private school. The uniform was directly copied from that of Assumption College Thonburi (ACT), where the series was filmed (so that its students could blend in as extras). As a private school, the lettering is in red, and the student IDs are in Hindu-Arabic numerals. As in the above example, the stars on the collar indicate the student's year (here, dots are used for lower-secondary and stars for upper). Also note the belt buckle with the school logo, which tends to be seen with fancier schools.

The uniforms in Love Sick are also copied from real life, though this was done not for production convenience, but to pay tribute to the source novel, which was inspired by student life at Assumption College (AC), one of the country's oldest boys' schools (AC and ACT both belong to a network of schools operated by the Catholic Church, hence their names). The novel's full title, Love Sick: The Chaotic Lives of Blue Shorts Guys, reflects its focus on the inside world of the school, of which it paints a semi-imaginary image that makes multiple references to actual teachers, locations and customs, stopping short only of referring to the school by name. This is toned down in the series, though the coat of arms and uniform are nearly direct copies of AC's, minus the belt buckle (which was a relatively recent addition and not part of the uniform when the novel was being written).

Notice how Noh's school badge is pinned on the corner of the shirt pocket just like baby Peak and Ohm's real-life AC uniform, which is unique to the school. (Beam is a junior of Peak and Ohm's by a year, and was probably in M.3 when the photo was taken, so didn't wear a badge.) The school also requires leather shoes, unlike most schools which allow either leather or canvas shoes (in which case almost everyone will wear canvas shoes).

As mentioned in my previous post, the current trend of students having their school uniform shorts modified to be very short probably originated with AC students, and spread more widely from the late 2000s. Naturally, the style is shown in Love Sick, though this is also generally well represented in BL media.

Make It Right, by the creators of Love Sick, used the same style for its student uniform, except the shoes (though pinning the badge at the shirt pocket didn't really make sense now that it wasn't meant to refer AC's real-life uniqueness). It's also a bit strange seeing student IDs running into the 60000s, as even the oldest real-life schools don't have numbers that high.

The use of blue-shorts school uniforms to signify wealthy characters/environments is a pretty common trope in BL (and also Thai series more generally). It's also seen in 7 Project, in a more typical appearance with the pin in the usual location, and the student's name over the shirt pocket.

In My Gear and Your Gown, the uniform (quite unusually for private schools) doesn't have any lettering other than the school's initials. It's most likely a cost-saving measure by the costume department, sacrificing a bit of realism to avoid the need to create individualized outfits for every character (though it does use leather shoes).

The uniform in My Dear Loser: Edge of 17 is rather confusing. It's clearly meant to be a private school, given the blue shorts, but this is contradicted by the navy lettering on the shirt. Looks like a mistake, unless it was a deliberate choice to introduce some sort of ambiguity (though this is unlikely, and even most Thai viewers probably won't notice anyway).

In Only Boo!, Moo originally goes to a private school with a blue-shorts uniform, but is sent away as punishment for neglecting his studies. His new uniform, with khaki shorts, emphasizes the provincial nature of the school.

Often, different-coloured uniforms will be used to contrast the characters' backgrounds. This goes back to The Love of Siam, where the blue shorts and leather shoes of Mew's school uniform reinforce its presentation as a Catholic school (and closely echoes AC, which also served as the school's filming location), while Tong's black-shorts uniform may have been a reference to Bangkok Christian College, a nearby school popularly seen as a rival of AC's. BCC is one of the better known private schools to use a uniform with black shorts, and The Love of Siam is one of the less common examples of this. (Note again the school badge, which isn't worn by some of the members of Mew's band, indicating that they're in lower-secondary.)

The colour contrast is also used in Love's Coming, though it doesn't really convey any significant background.

Somewhat amusingly, creators don't always try to be particularly creative with the school name abbreviations, and they will often be that of the production company's name. So here we have ม.ม. and ม.ม.ป. - MM and MMP for Mungmee Production. Above, there's จ.ท.ว. - GTV (GMMTV) in My Dear Loser, ค.ซ.ม. - CSM (Cosocomo) in Make It Right, and น.ด.บ. - NDB (Nadao Bangkok) for Hormones, the last of which is also the actual in-story name of the school.

I Told Sunset About You uses a very unusual colour pairing: Navy and Khaki. Oh-aew's school (and Teh's formerly) is private, while Teh's is the province's main government school. The colour choices are mainly aesthetic - while some main provincial schools do use khaki shorts (and private schools navy), they are quite uncommon. White shoes worn with the regular student uniform is also practically unheard of (they're usually for PE uniforms - more on these below).

Note also how the year-indicating dots above the school initials are differentiated by colour: navy for lower secondary, red for upper. So when Teh shows up at his old school wearing a uniform with three navy dots, that's him squeezing into his old uniform from M.3 to sneak into the school.

Sometimes actual existing schools serve as the setting of a work, and its uniform is used. For example, My Bromance (2014) is set at Wachirawit School in Chiang Mai and uses its uniform.

The Best Story likewise takes place at the Demonstration School of Suan Sunandha Rajabhat University. Demonstration or "Satit" schools are pretty much a class of their own. While they're technically government schools, they're operated by universities for their teacher training programmes, and have a higher degree of freedom in their operations. They also often have uniforms that don't follow the usual format, with no school name on the shirt. This is the case with Satit Suansunandha, which has its logo embroidered on the shirt pocket and pinned above the student's name instead.

Some Satit schools also use an unusual colour, charcoal grey, for their uniform shorts. This is seen with Praram's uniform in EN of Love: This Is Love Story, indicating that his school is attached to the university. Having just the student's name and no school initials isn't unusual in this case (though not having any logo at all kind of is).

On the other hand, the lack of any embroidered lettering at all, like in The Shipper, is very unusual. In real life this is unique to Triam Udom Suksa School, which is commonly regarded as the country's top school. GMMTV previously did this in The Gifted, which kind of made sense as it conveyed that the school was unique and special, but this isn't true for The Shipper, so the stylistic choice seems a bit lazy.

This is also the case with 55:15 Never Too Late. Even stranger is the uniform from Nanon's storyline, which has khaki shorts signifying a provincial setting but the top is just a plain shirt with no markings or pin at all. It looks rather like an error in the production process that they had to roll with due to some limitation.

Girls' uniforms are much more varied, as private schools follow a variety of different styles. The standard style is mostly only used by government schools. For the upper-secondary level, it's a white button-up shirt (or blouse? I'm not sure of the terminology) with short sleeves that are pleated at the cuff, a navy (or, uncommonly, black) skirt with three pairs of wide pleats at the front and back, a black belt, white socks and black strapped shoes. The shirt will have the same markings as the boys' uniform. We see Pa wearing this in Bad Buddy (and also Tarn in the ITSAY pic above). Note that they made a mistake with her collar dot, as she was in M.6 in this scene and should have had three dots instead of one. (The same mistake happens with the younger music club students in episode 10. I guess the costume department just created one style based on the main characters and forgot to factor in the others.)

I won't attempt to list examples of all girls' uniforms here, as they're harder to keep track of in BL, but if it's a high-school setting and you see a different style of uniform than the above, it should be quite safe to assume it's a private school (especially if it's long-sleeved, with a necktie, or a blue, red or other brightly coloured skirt, like in the 7 Project example above), or a Satit school.

International schools usually have a different style of uniform altogether. They may be variably coloured, use shorts or trousers, include neckties, and the shirts won't have the usual lettering but commonly feature the school logo. Girls' skirts will commonly have a plaid/tartan pattern. Bilingual schools - private schools featuring a bilingual curriculum, with mainly Thai students - will also often use this style of uniform to some extent. We see it in Brothers, where the setting is supposed to be an international school.

While schools may have a full uniform with blazers and all, they'd only be used on special occasions. If characters wear them on a regular basis, it probably signifies a fantasy setting, or one somewhat removed from real life. This is fully utilized in Great Men Academy, which is as fantasy as you can get with magical wish-granting unicorns.

A similar effect is achieved with sweater vests, as seen in Second Chance. However, this is to emulate the Japanese/Korean uniform style, giving the show something of a J-/K-drama aesthetic while moving it away from the grounded reality of Thailand.

Sometimes, as in Friend Forever, a novel style is created that doesn't really carry any inherent meaning but is presumably done mainly for aesthetic reasons.

In real life, the standard-style boys' uniform (with embroidered lettering) may also use trousers, but this is only done in Islamic schools and the vocational education system, which are pretty much outside the realm of BL stories, so you won't likely come across them. (Update: This is no longer true with the existence of Don't Touch My Gang, but it didn't feature regular uniform, only the workshop shirt, which is covered below.)

Apart from the standard school uniform, most schools will also have a PE uniform, used on days with PE (gym) class, typically once a week for upper-secondary students. These aren't legally regulated, so they come in a large variety of styles, though many government schools will follow the same basic style of a coloured polo shirt made with a woven fabric, usually with the school logo on the pocket. We see Teh wearing this (though with the school initials instead of a logo) in ITSAY, with his usual uniform shorts. Most schools will have students wear the PE top from home and change into the PE bottom (typically sweatpants) just for PE class. Don't expect to see school showers, though, as they're not done in Thailand. Different classes mostly have PE on different days, and in meticulously written shows like ITSAY, where everything fits into the calendar, you can tell the day of the week from the PE uniform (it's Monday if you see Teh in his blue PE top).

As mentioned above, white canvas shoes may be required for PE uniforms, as seen again in The Love of Siam. This is mostly a feature of girls' uniforms, though, as boys' uniforms will more often use the shoes that are already part of their regular uniform, but schools which normally use leather shoes are a natural exception. However, they will more typically have students wear white shoes from home together with the PE top rather than change shoes at school like Mew apparently does. The shirt style here, a custom-patterned polo shirt with a knitted fabric, is also common.

We see another example of the style in Dew. Except for shoe colour, PE uniforms are usually identical for boys and girls.

Since there aren't actual limitations to PE uniform designs even in real life, creators sometimes have a field day with them. In Make It Right, the PE uniform is quite obviously a piece of fan service. (There are real-life schools that do use shorts, though they're not quite that short.)

Another uniform you might encounter is the Territorial Defence Student uniform. In Thailand, men face military conscription at age 21, upon which they will have to draw a lottery to determine whether they must enlist for two years. But there's an alternative to that. By completing three years of military training as Territorial Defence Students (often referred to as ร.ด. - Ror Dor (R.D.)), which is offered to upper-secondary school students, one avoids the need to face the lottery completely. Naturally, most middle-class boys will take the training. It takes half a day a week for 20 weeks each year (which is half the school year), plus up to a week of field training around January-February. For the weekly training days, if the session is in the afternoon, school will typically have only morning classes.

The need to attend Ror Dor is probably the most universally hated aspect of high school life for Thai boys, not because of the training itself, which is hardly intensive at all, but because of the military haircut requirements. Naturally this is never portrayed realistically, and many works ignore the existence of Ror Dor altogether. What's kind of funny is that the above storyline concerns Tee needing a haircut to pass Ror Dor inspection, but none of the characters except Mork come anywhere close.

The Ror Dor uniform is a khaki green combat uniform, with the student's name on the right chest and the school patch on the right arm. The Thai numeral on the left collar indicates the student's year. Here, it's ๒ (2), indicating that they're in the second year of training, which means M.5. The green T-shirt worn underneath is often worn casually by some.

In stories that go down to the lower-secondary or primary years, you may also see the Boy Scout uniform. In most schools, participation is mandatory for students up to M.3, and takes place once a week. Here in The Love of Siam, we see young Tong in the Scout uniform, indicating that he's in primary school, while Eiw and Cake in My Only 12% are wearing the Senior Scout uniform (with the maroon shoulder boards) of lower-secondary students.

That's pretty much everything regarding school uniforms, I think. Onto university...

In Thailand, universities have uniforms for undergraduate students. Unlike school uniforms, which are very specific, university uniforms are more loosely defined. In most cases they will be a white dress shirt and black (or navy) slacks for males, with black dress shoes, and a necktie and a belt buckle bearing the university symbol. For females, it's usually a white shirt/blouse with the university symbol pin, a black (or navy) skirt, shoes, and also a belt buckle bearing the university symbol. Some universities will also have metal buttons with the university symbol that have to be attached to the shirt.

While most universities will have defined uniforms, in practice, the requirements vary across universities (and across faculties within the same university). Many require that uniforms be worn for attendance of all classes, but some don't, and expect them only on exam days or special occasions. Strictness and adherence also varies. Often, people won't bother with the belt buckle, sneakers may be allowed (or turned a blind eye to), and jeans may even be permissible. This gives creators more leeway in designing the costumes to a varied visual effect.

In the above scene from Bad Buddy, Pran's upright collar (GMMTV does seem to like these, though I don't quite recall seeing them in real life), Wai's short sleeves (some universities officially have them as a uniform option, some don't), Safe's jacket (which is totally normal, by the way - they do blast the aircon in some lecture halls) and Louis's workshop shirt (more on this below) combine to provide visual contrast. The costume design is also often used for characterization. In Love by Chance, the timid and deferential Pete always wears his necktie, while the brasher Ae is never seen with it, nor does his shirt ever seem to be tucked in. (Untucked shirts are also used for characterization with school uniforms, though it's pretty much the only option.)

Even where uniforms are more strictly enforced, the necktie is usually not worn outside of formal occasions. Some universities have a tradition of requiring them only for freshmen, and similarly female freshmen may be required to wear below-knee accordion-pleated skirts (and for some universities, white shoes) for the entire first year. All of this is shown in SOTUS, as the entire series revolves around these hazing traditions. As freshmen, M and May wear the full university uniform (May with pleated skirt), while the sophomores are seen wearing pencil/mini-skirts and jeans with no necktie. The necktie doesn't have a printed logo, though it's attached as a tie pin - some schools do this. (Quite a lot of series, however, don't bother with having any sort of logo on the tie or belt buckle at all, which is a bit unrealistic, but in some cases could be explained away by the above-mentioned variability in strictness.)

Also famously depicted in SOTUS is the workshop shirt/smock/overshirt, which isn't really an official uniform, but a protective garment meant for practical classes. In some schools, there's been considerable drama over their use, as students often use it as a cover for casual clothing instead of wearing the regular uniform, which the staff disapproves. As so many series show, it's indeed quite commonly seen as an engineering-school symbol.

And that's pretty much all I can think of. If you've made it this far, thanks and congratulations! :p Let me know if I've forgotten anything.

#thai bl #thai culture #bl meta

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arinzu · 9 months ago

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My Headcannons for Yoichi Isagi, Rin itoshi and Alexis Ness💕

Part 1 l part 2

Might not be accurate

💗💗💗

Yoichi Isagi :

✿He took a photo once of his hair slick back and his fan went absolutely feral.

✿He time to time stalks Rin to observe what he does.

✿Isagi probably stares at the ceiling when he's about to sleep and think about all of the opportunities he missed.

✿If he played any other sports it would be chess, since his vision is great for mental games.

✿Tbh is he was a sin he would be greed/gluttony.

✿If he could ask anything from his parents, it would be to have a little sis.

✿Does skin, body and hair care every few days.

✿Swears in videos games often. Those little brats think they're so gOoD but once isagi finishes his puzzle he'll devour them

✿Tried to hit Kaiser in the head with the ball after a practice match, but Noel Noah was there

✿Gossips with kurona and hiori about kaiser and ness, It's perfect since kurona doesn't know what they're doing but hiori has a lot of dirt on them.

Boyfriend Headcannons💤

♡Plays football w/ u and teaches you by beating you, not even to destroy your self esteem.

♡ such a sweetheart while you are on your menstrual cycle (if you're a girl)

♡ gossip about every teammate with you, like a whole book of players he wants to gossip to you about

♡ once you were sick, he drove to the local store at 2 am just for you. He's so sweet.

♡ Cooks very well like he'll cook food decently

♡ Not that toxic? Maybe that's probably up for debate

♡tells you about his problems like it's the national news to be discuss

♡ Has that romantic playlist he made just for you and him to enjoy.

♡Due to being in blue lock he hasn't texted you often so in return he tries to send gifts every month

♡ Calls you darling and sweetheart multiple times a day

Rin itoshi

✿Drools in his sleep (Me too Rin)

✿I feel like he'll stand awkwardly in a party not even interacting with anyone

✿Is good at cleaning, not barou level but up there

✿Perfect grammar, also TOP at his English

✿Never uses any gen-z/alpha slangs or any type of slang infact

✿Dry ass texter...

✿Gets really weirded out by any of his THOSE fangirls/fanboys... Like wdym you wanna have the reproduction LIKE HE'S ONLY 16

✿Knows knife play at some point, don't ask him why (he doesn't know)

✿Artistic in secret... Like he'll paint the beach or anything that shows the happy times of him and sae

✿Gets nightmares of that day... (Pretty sure everyone has that headcannon by now)

Boyfriend Headcannons💤

♡Cuddles every time he gets a chance with you. That kinda prevents him from getting those dreams....

♡ even if he's not as romantic as the others, you guys still go on weekly dates and THEY are expensive or just casual date like movie date🫶

♡After getting traumatized by sae, he almost broke up with you, Thank goodness, that you manage to make him snap out of it.

♡ After getting convinced by your and his parents he went to couple counseling and saw his mistakes

♡One of his favorite things to do with you is Playing football, I mean two things he loves in one? Count him in!

♡ Bring extra clothes with him whenever you're around, just in case it gets cold and he doesn't need to give you his hoodie.

♡Does not have much of a soft spot for you BUT, his eyes sparkle whenever he sees you like the good old times

♡ Almost made you cry when you both were on a movie date, it was those scary ahh movies that you don't know what's coming next.

♡Has a separate Love notebook from his early days of middle school that he reads when he misses you.

♡Calls you lukewarm as a word of affection when he sees you

Alexis ness

✿Would probably be in good terms with isagi if it didn't end like this

✿Has a mental breakdown every few days because of kaiser paying too much attention to isagi

✿Makes Kaiser a birthday cake every year and even bought him EXPENSIVE stuff from his hometown

✿Keeps the magician outfit he had when he was just a child, he cherish it like it's the most valuable thing in the whole universe

✿Would be friends w/ Charles if they interacted more, I mean like opposite friends, Ya'k

✿If richer than his awful siblings back home, if not then... It's because of the plot.

✿If he didn't met kaiser he'll probably be better than what he is now.

✿Has surprisingly good fashion taste, It's better than most blue lockers I can tell you

✿Has that changing color book lamp at the side of his bed he use when he's upset or just sad

✿He would like science if it weren't for the fact of his childhood

Boyfriend Headcannons 💕

♡Is actually quite the gentleman to you and your family members, since he a very toxic household

♡Always makes your favorite dish, if he doesn't know the recipes he'll find it by your guardian/ by how you like it.

♡Gives you a lot of gifts, I MEAN A LOT like everyday you'll find things that you enjoy at your doorstep

♡Due to being away from blue lock, he gets awfully jealous of the boys around you. Even if it's just a friend

♡Husband material frfr

♡ Punch a dude that was making you uncomfortable, and then ran with you to flee the scene.

♡Prefers the value of affection than the materialistic value of a gift you give him

♡ Loves being the small spoon but if you want, he can be the big spoon, anything for his precious angel.

♡Yandere tendency!!! Whether a girl or boy, he will get jealous if you spend more attention on them than him!

♡Call you angel or any kind of German words of affection, he will use it

That's it y'all💋

Thank you for reading this! It too me longer than expected!

So thank you for staying till the end even tho it was just 3 blue lock characters!

💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕

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hkthatgffan · 15 days ago

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What are your thoughts on the Pines parents? Particularly since the reveal of them having marital issues in TBOB?

I'm pretty conflicted tbh. Part me finds the revelation interesting and a pretty insane new layer to add on to the show's established canon, but I also feel like it could be another case of Gravity Falls fans taking flour and trying to predict what kind of buffet Alex is cooking.

In the case for the assumption this is hinting at the twin's parents having marriage issues and going towards say, a divorce, we have small hints in series that could be assumed as that, from Dipper's initial worry of leaving Mabel alone in Cali without him, Mabel's own fears of growing up without Dipper and the future itself, the abruptness as it sounds of them being sent to Gravity Falls, etc.

Of course, we also have the fact that Alex Hirsch's parents themselves are divorced IRL and him and Ariel grew up with their mom. And as they both are the inspiration for Dipper and Mabel, this can be a case of Alex hinting at that and adding another element of his life to them.

It course also somewhat goes counter to his past statements about how we never really are gonna learn anything about the twin's parents, because he doesn't see them as characters we need to know about as the story is focused on the twin's in Summer with Stan and Ford (I mean, all we initially knew was that their dad worked with computers and got Mabel's night shirt at a Windows 95 event, lol). So, adding this to the pot does feel like a pretty major change in direction.

That said, on the other hand, it could just be that...marriage issues the two of them are working to fix. Perhaps they sent the twins away while they sought couples therapy or something to mend things before the kids got back. We can also make the assumption Dipper may have overheard something that he mistook as being more serious than it was.

I say this from personal experience. I've often overheard arguments or pretty heated stuff my parents were yelling about that I probably was not supposed to hear or assumed the wrong thing about and it left me worried about if well...you know. Thankfully that never was the case and as I've gotten older I've come to better understand that sometimes parents fight but they can resolve things on their own in time. Though as kids, that shit can scare you, especially someone at Dipper's age. And while not all parents probably can resolve those matters the same way, it's always a possibility worth assuming here, especially with the little info we know. I mean, Bill said "Why do you think they were in such a rush to get the kids out the door for the summer?" It sounds like he's asking us fans to make our own guess on that.

And speaking of Bill...there's the Bill factor to consider too. Remember, who wrote this?

BILL CIPHER! And Bill is about as reliable a source for accurate info as the US government or Doug Ford is when it comes to Line 5 or why he REALLY closed the Science Centre (IYKYK).

Many fans doubt the truthfulness of what Bill said in the book. So, he could just be making this up and Dipper may never have had that dream to begin with. Of course, it would be weird for Alex to make a book full of lies about the show, but then...this is Alex Hirsch we're talking about.

Personally, I believe Dipper did have this nightmare and he overheard something intense. But as to what it's alluding to...I'm not sure.

I think this is another case of Alex Hirsch leaving the question open ended. What's up with the twin's parents? That's for us fans to decide.

If you believe they're divorcing, you can. If you think it's nothing and Dipper is over-worrying about an argument his parents had, you can. And if you think it's BS and Bill made it up, you can too.

That's again the beauty of Gravity Falls leaving itself open ended. Every headcanon and theory is possible. I mean, fans believed for years Bill was in Stan's mind till this very book killed that theory off for good.

Maybe in several years if Alex decides to, he'll expand on this plot point and answer the question once and for all. But for now, what the deal with Dipper and Mabel's parents is, will remain...

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ecrivainalene · 7 months ago

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Leviathan Panel at Otakon 2024

I was OVERJOYED to be at the Leviathan panel during Otakon 2024! I'll do my best to recap it below, but if you want a more coherent play by play, this Twitter user did an excellent job.

I've got a handful of photos, recap of Sharp Gender Discussion, plus misc. things I remember.

Not everyone was up for the entire time, but I snapped this photo near the end when everyone was on stage! From left to right: Waki Kiyotaka (Studio Orange), Yoshihiro Watanabe (Studio Orange), Scott Westerfeld, Christophe Ferreira (Quibic Pictures), Justin Leach (Quibic Pictures), Katrina Minett (Quibic Pictures), and Diana Garnet (ending theme vocalist).

New concept art! Looks like Dr. Barlow, Klopp, Alek, and Sharp, right before the Germans attack the Leviathan.

More under the cut!

Alternative shot of that art bc I couldn't get my lighting right:

Clanker and Darwinist technology designs. Watanave explained that Studio Orange's early days were spent doing contract work on Gundam anime, so I can't wait to see how that translates to the Clanker machines.

Some more concept art:

By the way, the entire series is being adapted at once - so we'll get the complete story at once! That in mind, the second image here makes me think of that maneuver near the beginning of Goliath to pick up the cargo.

Sharp!!! Look at them!!!

I don't have much to say about these but I'm fairly sure I hadn't seen them before. I am wondering if they downsized Alek's crew for the sake of the story, or perhaps we just haven't seem Bauer and Hoffman yet.

We got some new character art! The panel was very cryptic about who the character designer is. Apparently they're pretty well known, but they can't share it yet!

Volger I am so sorry your photo was unfocused. Forgive me.

The panel jokingly described him as "Alek's dad," which feels accurate. And maybe I misunderstood, but it sounds like he plays an even more important role in the anime than he does in the books. I've always considered Volger to be a pretty important character, so I wonder what else he'll do in this new series.

Klopp looks exactly like how I pictured him in my mind!! They said if Volger is Alek's dad, then Klopp is like his mom. Which is very fair but also made me laugh a lot.

Dr. Barlow!! She looks amazing. There was a lot of talk about the dynamic between her and Volger and how they're often playing mental chess games with each other. I'm really glad they're leaning into that dynamic.

And one more concept art:

This looks like the visit to Istanbul, which I'm desperately hoping means we'll see my favorite chaotic bisexual, Lilit.

That's all of the photos I have! They also showed us a preview of the show plus a live performance of the ending song with Diana Garnet. No video recording was allowed and I don't break rules, but believe me when I tell you it was stunning. The world feels so full of life and adventure and I can't wait to see the final show.

Tbh I was too busy holding back tears of joy but one thing I remember distinctly is there's a shot of Sharp getting ready for the day, and we see a sheet of paper with a bunch of names written and crossed out before finally (I think) "Dylan" is circled.

Which actually brings me to the Q&A part. TLDR, between the use of "Sharp" for Deryn's name, Scott referring to Sharp as "she/he/they" during the panel, and the scene I mentioned earlier, I feel really hopeful about how they're approaching Deryn's gender and identity in this adaptation.

I asked a question about this at the Q&A and voice recorded it, so I'll try to transcribe it here as best I can because the audio is not great lol. I stumbled through my question so I trimmed it down here but I'll transcribe the response as clearly as I can!

Me: I just finished re-reading [the series] for the first time since I was probably in high school, and one of the things that interests me about this adaptation is the approach to Sharp's character... I guess I'm just interested, like, was there a lot of thought put behind, or what kind of thought was put behind how to approach their character in the anime, I guess as a chance to re-approach the story however many years after it was originally written.

Scott Westerfeld: Yeah, there's a lot to that. The "girl dressing as a boy" as a trope was something completely different in 2007 when I started writing this than it is now. And so we really approached Deryn's identity as what was at stake rather than just... rather than just her being in disguise, it's about their recreating themselves and becoming a different person and transitioning and, and so... but it's always been interesting to me that the words that I wrote back in 2009, 10, 11, y'know, as an old guy who grew up in Texas in the 70s - who was David Bowie fan! - but otherwise didn't have a lot of access into issues of gender, I'm amazed at how many people have been [able to?] adopt Deryn/Dylan as one of their own. I just got an email a week ago from a trans boy whose chosen name is Dylan. So it is amazing to me how whatever imperfections or whatever problematics there are in the text, people still find their way into what they need from a character. And as a writer, I can say that I always respected that character, I always respected their choices, I always respected who they were. I never tried to stick them into a dress and have everyone go "Ooh now you're pretty 'because 'cause you're in dress!" We didn't do that, and I think that what may be important for people and I think that's why it's still what's gonna work here, but it's been fun to be able to update it and everybody on the team's been really great about understanding that.

TLDR I don't want to get anyone's hopes up too high, but I'm really appreciative of the care that's being taken with Sharp's story and identity in this adaptation. It seems like Scott and the others on the team are taking that into account, and I'm excited to see how it plays out.

Other random things I remember:

THERE WAS AN ALEK COSPLAYER. I took a photo with them but I won't post it without their consent. Just trust that they looked fantastic.

Scott said one of the first things he was told was that Alek can't actually kill Nikola Tesla because he's too well loved by people in Japan, which I think is the funniest possible reason for a change to be made in an adaptation.

Diana Garnet (they/any) mentioned how much they love Sharp (don't we all) and also how they used to work at a Barnes and Noble and remembers selling lots of Westerfeld books!

Scott said his approach in writing Leviathan was taking everything he'd always wanted to write about and basically throwing it together, because he was just coming off of the success of Uglies and figured he could get away with it.

If I remember anything else I'll add on to this post! Overall, it was a wonderful panel and I'm incredibly excited for this project.

#studio orange #qubic pictures #leviathan anime #leviathan scott westerfeld #leviathan trilogy #leviathan netflix #scott westerfeld #deryn sharp #leviathan series #leviathan alek #prince alek #otakon #otakon 2024

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still--kicking · 1 month ago

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I saw very cute art about Keith's love language being acts of service and now I'm thinking about everyone's love languages

I agree that Keith is probably acts of service for how he shows love and quality time for how he feels loved. I think words of affirmation is the most difficult for him to receive (I think that's part of why the early seasons dynamic with Lance works so well for him, I think the rivalry and bickering feel safer to Keith than outright affection would)

Loverboy Lance is probably a blend of words of affirmation, physical touch, and acts of service. Probably also quality time tbh he grew up with a lot of love being shown in lots of ways so I think he'd be fluent in all the love languages, but maybe has a hard time giving and receiving gifts

Pidge feels like a gift giver to me. Pidge absolutely tracks down that niche collectible you've been trying to find for years for your birthday and you'll never know if they got it through legal means or not, and receiving gifts that feel accurate and personal to them makes them feel the most loved

We know Hunk loves cooking for others and I'd say that's a blend of gift giving and acts of service. I can't see him struggling receiving any of the love languages in particular but that might be because the writers forgot to give him a character flaw to overcome

Allura is probably words of affirmation I can't explain it I just feel it's true for her. Somebody please tell her she's doing a good job please I beg you. I think acts of service don't register as a love language to her because growing up as a princess she was probably surrounded by people who did things for her all the time as their job rather than an act of love. Quality time is probably high up for her too because I imagine her parents were quite busy so making time for her felt special. We've also seen her appreciate getting gifts ("I'd love something sparkly!")

Shiro I'm stuck on tbh, he generally stays pretty separate from the other paladins and we don't get any of his family history and also he's not himself for the majority of the show. What we do know from the flashbacks in season 7 is that he feels the need to prove that he's capable, and we don't know where that drive comes from but I'd guess that makes him a words of affirmation guy. Similar to Allura, someone please just tell him he's doing a good job. We also see his clone appreciate the quality time with the team in the monsters and mana episode so that could be high for him too

Coran is absolutely acts of service and quality time, in that order. But I think he often thinks of these as going together, when he and Lance are cleaning the pods in season 1 we see him telling Lance about himself while they're working. That feels like a blend of acts of service and quality time to me

Anyway I got soooo carried away with this so I hope you enjoyed my 1am thoughts

#voltron character analysis #vld character analysis #voltron #vld #voltron legendary defender #keith kogane #lance mcclain #pidge holt #hunk garrett #takashi shirogane #princess allura #you cant tell me im wrong im literally a therapist #jk you totally can i would love to hear other takes on this

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ladyloveandjustice · 7 months ago

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Say what you will about TV Tropes, and I've said a lot, but they blew my mind with this entry on Zuko:

They're so right, he is??? How did I never realize this?? Zuko would bond so much with Fate and Rue and pretty much every antagonist-turned-Precure. They're the same.

(though tbh I don't think most magical girls that have dark magical girls as foes fit the "running away from duty" thing--Nanoha doesn't, Ahiru doesn't (except for ten minutes at the end but Rue's already normal by that point), Precure protagonists don't, even Usagi has developed past running away from her duty by the time Black Lady and Sailor Saturn/Mistress Nine come along.

I think more accurate would be that while a magical girl will have a life outside her duty--she'll have friends, she'll enjoy relaxing, having fun, goofing off and she'll have goals and things she likes to do outside her mission--dark magical girls generally don't have those things, and the only thing they're living for is their mission and/or pleasing their abusive parent. Which is also pretty perfectly Aang and Zuko for season one and a good chunk of Season 2. Capturing the Avatar and earning Ozai's approval is the only thing Zuko thinks about, he repeatedly refuses to have any life outside his mission of hunting Aang, including just relaxing and socializing for five minutes. Meanwhile, Aang has friends, has fun, can socialize and live a full life and think of other things besides being the Avatar).

Aang really is so magical girl coded when you think about it too. His personality, his vibes, pulled into his destiny when he'd rather just be normal, the way he advocates forgiveness and tries to help even his enemies see the light...elemental powers...he even has animal mascots! It was right there in front of me the whole time.

#avatar the last airbender #zuko #aang #precure #princess tutu #sailor moon #magical girls #magical girl lyrical nanoha

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seonghwaswifereal · 8 months ago

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OT8 SKZ

(I'm putting this at the start of every list, so ignore it if you want)

Just wanna say that this is pretty much just for me to catalog all the fics and random things that I like, so idk, just enjoy it if you want lol

Full Name

Calling them their full name in bed, VERY mixed reactions, a little icky tbh I still like it tho

Subspace

Some INTENSE fucking in the beginning, soo so fluffy, this Bin has me in Literal tears lol

Fave Way Of Getting You Off

Thigh riding *cue foaming at the mouth* toys, and much more

Virginity

Kind of it, Chan's is super duper cute, Seungmo being surprisingly soft lol

Kinks

Public stuff, begging, kinda what you'd expect tbh

Live

Givin' em brain while they're live, Min singing a song??? like??

Calling Him Daddy

Himbo Binnie, I really like Chan's, rough, cute lil drabble

Hyung Line X Virgin Reader

Nosy ass Hyunjin, Riding Binnie bc of course

Maknae Line X Virgin Reader

Sweet Jisung :( rough Min, Innies is in public lol

Perv Maknae Line

Jisung w. a chewing(?) kink, Jisung that likes to get pegged, hairband-stealer Lix??? Seungmo w. a breeding kink, wet dreams-Innie has me in a literal CHOKEHOLD

Munch

MunchSKZ needs more fics fr

Personal Time

How and what they use to jack off, SeungIn's is my fav

Lingerie

Sending them texts of you in lingerie, it's so mmm but so fluffy at the same time

TwT Links

*Gasp* A masterlist in another list???? lol

Pullout

Binnie being a respectful boy, Innie being a worrywart, Hannie can't control hisself

Car Ride

Sooo... this one is a little, uh yeah, tw for... piss, please don't judge meeee, literally so hot thooo, Hannie's basically a toilet

Sub Sandwich Hyung Line

Your first time subbing, Chan's could quite literally send me to the psych ward if I let it, hair pulling, overstim, and dacryphilia, yum

Contact Names

Honestly made me chuckle, cutie patootie Bin

Sharing Is Caring (MeanRacha)

Double pen. in one hole, my favorite hehe, Innie's BIG, cnc bracelet except it's not really

Can I Kiss You?

So cute God, nervous Minho :( lmao you're already fucking Binnie before kissing him? sure, Innies is so, just, domestic it's adorableee

Favorite Positions Hyung Line

STRONG Bin, ass guy Min, cuddling Jin, and riding Chan. Perfection

Appearance

The Most accurate headcannons on how their schlongs look imo

When You Struggle To Eat

Super adorable drabble, 2Min's are my favorite

Reward

Who and why the think that getting/ giving head is a reward

Choreo

It's so fucking funny istg

Favorite Place To Kiss You

Gaahhhh tummy kisses with Binnn, also Min's is so like.. surprisingly romantic, I'm in love

TwT Links And Descriptions

I honestly just saved this one for the links

With A Sleepy S/O

Cute and pretty short, it's here to give you a little dopamine boost :)

Mice

Guys, I- this genuinely made me chuckle

Mishaps

Snapshots of them making mistakes in bed lol, ex. banging your head against the wall...

#stray kids #stray kids x reader #stray kids smut #bang chan #lee know #changbin #hyunjin #han jisung #felix #seungmin #i.n #list #fanfic #spread love

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alllgator-blood · 4 months ago

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Wait, River, I must know

How do you pronounce Shamura? Their name?

For the longest time I had thought it was [Sham-mur-ah], but after hearing in "PESTILENCE" that their name was pronounced [Sha-mor-rah] instead I'm not sure

I know it wouldn't bother many people but to me, being accurate is absolute in my mind, as correct as possible, and as you too, are a devoted Shamura follower, I must inqcuire,

How do you pronounce the almighty God's name?

VERY GOOD QUESTION, THE BISHOP NAMES HAVE HAUNTED ME SINCE I FIRST PLAYED THE GAME. For shamura, I'm pretty sure I've been pronouncing it like how they say it in pestilence? "shuh-murr-uh" is the best spelling I'm able to come up with but there's a lot going on in the song so I'm not able to hear it that clearly. I remember when pestilence dropped, I was kinda bewildered by the fact I'd heard their name spoken out loud in an official piece of cotl media because I had NO IDEA if I was saying it right this whole time.

I've also heard "shammer-uh" and "shah-moo-ruh" so I have no idea. The other bishops have pretty straightforward names that can be traced to a source pretty easily so it's really weird that they made sham's name so cryptic, this is why I project my culture onto them cause I literally have no idea what they're supposed to be lmao. I've seen someone say it's a variation of an old akkadian or hebrew word I think?? Maybe the devs have clarified it somewhere but I just don't keep up with that kind of thing so idk

edit: the word I was thinking of was "shamar" and that's gotta be the right one because the definition of it is to protect, guard, watch over, that kinda thing which is VERY shamura tbh

#river rambles

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sauriaaaaaan · 2 months ago

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Welp this seems like the proper time to post this since it's Gaara week and they're related to one another. But I finished my Shukaku plush! He's not 100% accurate to canon because I could have sworn that he had a dewlap thingy but oh well! Tbh, I just had the "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing shitty" post in repeat in my head 😂 Overall I'm pretty happy with him and thought the Naruto community might like him regardless

#naruto #shukaku #plush #i may have made him too heavy but since hell mostly stay in one place he probably wont tear??#also thats a trash bag full of stuffing mostly from dog toys because stuffing is way too expensive to buy #i dunno if i should tag Gaara since hes technically not in this #Gaara #let me know if i should remove that!

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followthebluebell · 1 year ago

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entirely random question, if you happen to have any thoughts on it: why are cats so terrible at fetch when dogs aren't? even kitties who enjoy the "chase-and-return" concept usually don't actually fully return the toy when it seems like dogs work that part out pretty quick.

Because we bred dogs to do it, basically. A lot of dog breeds are retrievers, which do exactly what it says on the tin: they retrieve things. Teaching my poodle to play fetch didn't require much 'teaching' because those instincts are right there at the surface. He wants to fetch things the same way an artist wants to create. It's what he was born to do.

Even dogs that aren't retrievers are still dogs and are, in general, hardwired to listen and learn from people. People can and will make an argument about 'oh, but this breed is STUBBORN' (ie, huskies, salukis, a lot of hounds tbh, pretty much every primitive breed, etc; I'm not going to sit here and list all the breeds that are deemed 'difficult to train'), but I don't think that's fully accurate. Primitive breeds that are 'hard to train' are STILL going to learn from humans. They just don't always learn the things we're trying to teach them, but that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

I also want to emphasize that I FULLY believe that dogs changed us too. I don't think humans would be what we are today if it wasn't for our fully unique relationship with dogs. There's no other animal that we've domesticated the same way we have dogs, and there never will be. They fulfill so many roles in the development of human kind that it's astonishing. They were our hunting companions, our guardians, our trackers, our food, they even supplied wool (the salish wool dog is an extinct breed that was raised for wool similar to sheep), and our friends. Because of them, we became human. Because of us, they became dogs.

i'm sorry i'm getting really emotional about dogs. It's just that there's such a deep relationship between the species. Over our centuries, dogs became so incredibly attuned to us, to the point where they have the ability to communicate with and understand us more than any other domesticated species and we have the same with them. There's no other species on earth that inherently understands what a human means when we point a finger, but dogs DO.

basically dogs fetch because we bred them to want to retrieve, they want to learn things from us, and we want to teach them. Cats don't have any of these instincts. This doesn't mean they're any lesser or greater. They're just different and that's fantastic.

#dog #hi i really love dogs #i'm very much a cat person #but i love dogs very much

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thelonelyshore-if · 2 months ago

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I love the MC nickname options, they're so good! Unfortunately, I am now thinking about Willow even more than I already was.

Thinking about Willow as a child working so hard to come up with a good nickname for MC. Wanting to come up with something no one else will use and being a little possessive over it once they've figured one out. Being so proud of themself. An adult tries to use MC's new nickname and Willow just goes "No! I worked hard on that. Come up with your own!" >:( And the adults all go "Aw, it's so sweet how much Willow loves their big sibling" :)

Willow being even worse about it if MC calls them by an additional nickname (We both have special names for each other that no one else uses! I guess you could say we're pretty close. <- Willow, possibly being delusional depending on the MC).

Willow going by Willow, a name given to them by MC, because every time they hear that name, it's a reminder of their connection to MC (and MC's love for them, in a good relationship). Willow refusing to let others use their nickname for MC because it is an offering of their love laid down at MC's feet. Anyone else speaking that name is a perversion, it is blasphemy, it is a cardinal sin of the highest order. Just Willow Things.

Also thinking about how funny it would be if one of the other characters starts using MC's nickname when Willow shows back up. It would be just. So funny if it was someone that didn't get along with Willow and refused to stop using the nickname even after Willow threatened them asked nicely. And Willow was so nice about it, they promise. They couldn't have possibly been any nicer. Willow is absolutely not grinding their teeth or clenching their fists about this situation. It's fine. They're fine. And maybe the other character only uses the nickname when Willow is around to hear it. Even funnier, tbh. (And of course they'd stop if MC asked, but maybe MC doesn't see it as a big deal, doesn't realize how important it is to Willow, or maybe even doesn't care)

My Willow specifically passes over Sunshine as a nickname because it's too accurate. Other people would want to use it or, worse, come up with it organically. Horrifying. No, they went with Ducky, because my MC loves the lake and swimming, but it's also something that doesn't come up often and they don't advertise, so others are less likely to try to use that one.

(Sorry for the long ask. I'm so very normal about your characters. Couldn't possibly be more normal about them. I love Willow and I want them to be happy in the end, but they need to suffer a little bit first. <3)

Oh, thank you!! I'm honestly not totally satisfied with the nickname options but it's good to hear that you like them!

And I am literally always here for Willow thoughts Willow is maybe my favorite character in the game.

This is all literally so so good. You see my vision for Willow fr.

Because they are jealous and possessive and a little immature. I can't wait to sink my teeth into Willow's interactions with the rest of the cast. They’re going to show up in Easthaven fully believing that it'll be them and MC against the rest of the world. Siblings, outsiders, who will stick together and who don't need anybody else.

Only to find out that, no, MC has been building relationships this whole time. They have friends here. Allies. Maybe even a blossoming relationship or two.

No matter how close they are with MC, no matter how happy MC is to see them, it will never be the two of them against everyone and everything else.

So if they had a special nickname for MC? A name just for the two of them? And then they came into town to find that no, actually, MC tells everyone to call them that. It isn't special anymore, no matter how nice Willow is, no matter how much they ask...

Delightful. Incredible.

Thank you so so much for sharing your thoughts. I love long asks this was great <3

#asks #long post #willow #this ask fr made my morning thank you #now I'm thinking about willow #my beloved...#can't wait to bring them back...

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tomorrowsgardennc · 5 months ago

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Seed Sourcing Guide: An Opinion

i was listening in on a seed saving nerd zoom meeting last night when one of the best quotes ever said was said said: "the best seed 'store' is your own backyard." and the lady is totes right. downside is... you gotta source the seeds before you start saving them. with it being seed buying season, and a lady totally saying the best quote for any and all seed nerds to fuel my drive to finally sit down and write this, i have come up with:

tier list for seed sourcing websites NOT SPONSORED BTW

✨ top tier best tier ✨

ok so, i never really heard of true leaf until last year. but i have been sourcing almost all of my seeds from them since! they're not the same grow zone as me, but utah has some of the best soil in the nation so maybe that's why their seeds are the absolute best when it comes to germination. they also have a huge variety of seeds, all gorgeously designed in a quick-to-understand format (like their icons for heirloom versus hybrid, container friendly or not, etc.) their information is all legit and comprehensive as shit. my microgreen farmer friend gets all his microgreen seeds from here, too. couldn't recommend them enough!

if your looking for tomatoes specifically, then tomatofest is legit the best. they were recommended to me a few years ago by my farmer mama, and legit they are the best for any and all tomato types. if i ever need a new tomato variety, this is where i go no matter what. if they don't have it, then must not be worth growing. germination rate is always high, the plants come out great, and always fast with shipping.

i have not met a home gardener or farmer friend who doesn't have hoss in their seed library. their selection is small and their website is mid, but damn do they have the best germination rates out there along with the healthiest looking plants i ever did done see or grow. and tbh that's really what matters at the end of the day - not the germination rates, or shipping, or quantity, but rather how the vegetable or fruit plant thrives and produces. and hoss ticks off all those boxes beautifully.

😐 middle tier is mid 😐

eden brothers is mid tier only because i have attempted to germinate about 12 different seed types from them over the past 5 years and never have i ever gotten anything better than 10% germination rate. but their BULBS, their bulbs are absolutely amazing! if i need a flowering bulb to add to my cut flower garden, then this is where i source them from. never any issues with molded bulbs, and they grow true to what they say they will and how (so information is accurate). just... don't bother with the seed section.

i really truly and honestly and want to put renee's garden seeds in top tier... but i have tried over 20 different herb seeds from renee's and the herbs just never germinate. ever! the flowers, amazing. the vegetables, pretty good. selection, absolutely amazing. but the herbs, bro i don't know where they're sourcing their herbs from but it ain't happening. at least for me. maybe others more north would have better luck.

grow organic is great for supplies such as fertilizers and such, but not so much for seeds. i sourced my California softneck garlic from them and they were wonderful. i've had another farmer friend say she gets all her onion starts from them as well and her onions are phenomenal. but i've tried only 3 seed varieties from them with decent germination but didn't live long at all. if you're looking for tubers or vegetable bulbs, then totes. otherwise, be weary of the seeds even if the germination is great. (me thinks they save seeds regardless of how the plant lived, compared to saving seeds only from healthy plants.)

💀 worst tier don't bother 💀

johnny seeds used to be my go to for seeds when i was only focused on transplants. this was because they're the only one who sells in bulk, and honestly that's the only perk for them. you have to buy their seeds in bulk to get any decent germination out of them. but if you want 200 basil plants, then buying 500 basil seeds from them will be just fine. if you just want 2 basil plants, then don't even look at this website. they have one of the best seed starting soil mixes, but the shipping costs more than the soil. and they have some nice supplies. but this is a seed tier list, not a supplies tier list.

hopefully the fiasco with the purple galaxy tomato in January of 2024 has shed some light to how bad this company is, but if not then i'm including them on this list. they were pretty bad before that, but at least they live up to their name. i have sourced a few vegetables from them, but only because nobody else had them. which honestly should be a red flag. BUT c'est la vie, i bought seeds from them 3 years ago and haven't gone back. they're overpriced, germination rate is OK but considering the price tag their germination rate should be better and they're not. they try to pull themselves off as the "small guy" when they're clearly not.

https://www.burpee.com/

burpee seed company is legit the worst. they're so bad that a link to their website breaks tumblr and makes my tier list look ugly. they might lure you in with their gorgeous website, and with the huuuuge variety they have. but the website NEVER works, the varieties are almost 99% hybrids that don't grow or produce well, and the germination rate is abysmal. yes, they sell in all major and minor box stores but that's because capitalism, not because they're the best. stay. away.

🏅 honorable mention 🏅

so first off, let me say i have never bought from this website. but i have been gifted many seeds from them from several people. not sure if that's good or bad, hence the honorable mention category.

the seeds i've been gifted from 3 different farmers, and they're all winter varieties. and they've all done amazing!! i did buy some flower and herb seeds from the local hardware store, and the seeds were acceptable for germination rate. i do not blame that on the company, though, since that hardware store is so old school that they don't even have A/C inside. creaky wood floors, smells like old metal, that kind of hardware store. so not the best environment to store seeds in. but i will be buying some for this year to try out directly from their website, seeing as how if 2 year old seeds germinate pretty good and ones stored in horrible conditions are OK then fresh from the source MUST be great!

📝 let me know who i forgot and where you would rank them 📝 plz thnx luv u

maybe i'll do a tier list for even smaller seed companies, like my size seed companies?? whatchu think?? i've only tried a few so it would force me to try out some more!

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