#they're lesbians and also a yaoi couple

[rowlfthedog]

In this shot Gonzo is saying “I actually signed up for a seminar on mildew”

[needanaccount2readarcaneposts]

i had a nightmare that andor s2 dropped and it was bad

tony gilroy don't you dare pull an arcane s2 you're my only hope

[taniushka12]

im actually kinda sad i didnt add my other two tma ocs to artfight bc they're p funny too and id love fanart of em :(

[yellowocaballero]

i very much enjoy the extremely scientific analysis of the naruto verse in which there are three genders, aka naruto, sasuke, and Woman.

AM I WRONG? AM I WRONG? pulls down projection screen and plays powerpoint

Obviously let's give room for nuance. A ton of Naruto characters don't fall into these gender norms. This does predominantly apply to the rampant proliferation of the three-person dynamics that were assigned by the government and dictate your entire life. And, like, society. It does not end. Gender isn't a biological factor in Naruto, it's a social dynamic constructed entirely by your homoerotic tension with other men. And there are so many.

Madara (S), Hashirama (N), Mito (W). Izuna (N) and Tobirama (S) - tragically, Izuna died before women could be invented. Sarutobi (N), Danzo (S, horrifically) - see above about women not being invented yet. Jiraiya (N), Orochimaru (S), Tsunade (W). Yahiko (N), Nagato (S), Konan (W). Obito (N), Kakashi (S), Rin (W). Shisui (N), Itachi (S), that little deeply unimportant girlfriend (W). Um, fucking, Naruto (N), Sasuke (S), Sakura (W). Even - even, fuckin, Rock Lee (N), Neiji (S), Tenten (W).

And what do they all have in common????

(OT3. They're all OT3s. Is what I'm saying).

There is some room for alternative gender expressions here, like being butch or femme. Naruto gender expressions: teacher, otouto, woman who you can't even tell is woman gendered because she has no backstory but you just have to kinda assume that she has a polycule-based backstory where she was Woman Gender. I feel almost as if 2/3rds of the Rookie 9 are liberated from this. InoShikaCho just doesn't fit (their chaotic cousin energy is just too strong and Ino's too much of a lesbian). Hinata's too busy being defined entirely by a different throuple's N to have codependent dynamics with her own N and S (and I'm hesitant to even say that, since I actually don't know if Kiba and Shino have a codependent rivalry - do they?).

I get, like, the reason for all of this. Curse of Hatred. Cycles. N and S Genders being sourced from demigods or something. Narrative parallelism. Sympathy points. It's not the bad guy's fault he's evil, his N and W gendered counterparts died :(. But an extremely strange side-effect of this is that all of the male characters are, like, Just Naruto or Just Sasuke. But the vast majority of the female characters are - like, completely defined by the men in their lives - but also they are more likely to be a unique person. Mito, Sakura, and Rin have actually nothing in common. Writing so sexist it creates more interesting characters?!?!

Unironically, this is why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the ship of all time, nothing will ever top it, you will NEVER do it like Sasunaru, etc. Every important relationship in the series is meant to evoke Sasunaru. (Notably, none of the explicitly romantic ones. But we're beyond such paltry understandings of the most iconic pairing of all time as fundamentally based in romance. We're operating on a higher level than that). This unbroken chain of toxic yaoi has culminated at the end point of Sasunaru, and it exists to parallel Sasunaru and define their relationship by the dysfunction of generations of tragedy. That's why Naruto has to consciously break the cycle and free them from the generational hate - it was the only way to save Sasuke. This is also why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the point of Naruto, and that the entirety of Naruto is about Sasunaru. Come back to me when your work has invented new genders in the all-encompassing pursuit of toxic yaoi.

This also means that the only truly gender non-conforming individuals in Naruto are its mightiest heterosexuals: Minato (W) and Kushina (N). Truly insane. The N/S/W configuration is the societal norm, it's bonkers to make a major good-aligned male character a wifeguy. By Naruto standards Minato and Kushina are the only queer couple.

[two-wizards-in-a-trench-coat]

Now I'm really interested in your Franmaya thoughts

I mean I don't hate it, and I can see where some people are coming from to ship them. (like some of the manga extras) Personally not into it/ I think there are other more interesting femslash in the franchise I'd rather focus on.

What does bother me is that in some (and by that I mean a lot of) fics they are thrown together either in a "see, they're LESBIANS. So they're not threatening that sweet yaoi couple you're rooting for :)" way or the very infamous "that lesbian couple that really wants their gay friends to get together". <- Maya and Fran both care a lot for Phoenix and Miles but I reaaaaally don't think they (ESPECIALLY Fran) would play matchmaker for them. I get that plot needs to happen sometimes but it sucks that it often happens in a way that overshadows/distorts fem characters.

Also I'm mildly bothered by the general knee-jerk reflex to put everyone into that one ship so that can be happy forever yay. But to be fair that's just my aro/poly ass I think lmfao.

I hope I don't come across as rude when I say that; you can ship whatever you want and I'm not shitting on anyone's boat lol.

[do-you-ship-it-polls]

Following this blog is making me realize I really don't think I get what makes shipping appealing to most people.

Like, whats all this about character dynamics being more important than gender? How do you get invested in and want to see a relationship if your not attracted to at least one of the characters? Are there really straight dudes and lesbians out there reading / watching yaoi & straight girls and gay dudes out there reading / watching yuri?

Also not sure why people get invested in ships between characters that basically never interact or both have incompitable orientations or especially one where both have a mutual hatred of each other in canon.

Like, unless it has the potential to appeal to a very specific kink or fetish I have, I think almost all the ships I've submitted here involve at least one character that canonically has a one-sided crush or attraction to the other.

Is this the reason people think im a pedo for shipping child characters with eachother :(

If you need to find at least one of the characters attractive, it probably means you're shipping in a self-insert way, or like... to wank to them or something. I think most people just like exploring character dynamics in writing, their imagination or art.

That's also why it's so much fun to ship enemies together. There's so much more to explore when you think about the path they would need to go on in order to date, rather than a couple that are already attracted to eachother. At least in my opinion. (And enemies tend to follow the same patterns that people with crushes do, since they're obsessed with the other person). Light and L want eachother dead or in prison and they are probably the most popular death note ship because of it. Those two think about eachother 24/7.

And for characters that don't interact in canon, it's fun to imagine "what could have been" or what could happen post-canon, pre-canon etc. And sometimes it's just for fun. Shipping in general is just for fun and doesn't have to be taken seriously.

And if we're going into my personal experience - i'm mostly attracted to men but I think yuri is fun to read/watch. I also like gay romance, and sometimes straight romance. Romance is romance. yknow. It helps to imagine that heterosexuality isn't the default for everyone. A lot of writers miss out on good pairings because they make their characters strictly hetero. (just a personal opinion, writers choices should be respected, etc etc)

It just sounds like you're shipping with your hand down your pants.

(Also if anyone wants to respond to this, please write a comment or a reblog instead of sending me an ask!)

[tempural]

hey, so I've been scrolling through your many websites and comics for quite a bit and I looove your work!!! but Just Girly Things brought me a question... why is it so that lesbians gravitate towards yaoi so often? I myself am one of those yaoi lesbians and it's fine of course, but it's got me quite confused because yuri is *right there* and yet it often falls completely flat for me while yaoi (and certain flavors of het) will tend to do the opposite. I have some vague speculations as to why that is, at least in regards to myself, but would love to hear your thoughts on it.

Oooh I actually have a comic/caption on my Just Gorly Things site that addresses the lesbian fujoshi thing!

Comic #23: Yucky!

Boys have COOTIES. Gorls ACTUALLY like stinky crappy hunched over old men, with depression, and terminal illness! There's quite a history of lesbians, fujoshi or otherwise, finding 'unattainable' men attractive alongside their usual gal pals. Whether that's older authority figures, far away celebrities, or cartoon characters, these guys often aren't considered real attainable partners by the mind because they will never be interacted with. Thus they're fair game for thirst! They're basically just Barbie dolls for the brain to play with. If you find this conundrum of attraction and sexuality confusing, take it up with the quandary of nerves we call the human mind. Or take it up with the growing number of fangirls online openly thirsting after (fictional) ojii-chans!

Also wrote this on fujofans..

There are various reasons why a woman might enjoy fictional male romance. They might be cishet women who are attracted to men. They might be lesbians who relate to gay themes. They might actually be transmasculine and relate to the depiction of men in BL. They might just like romance regardless of gender and sexuality. They may live in a joker Society in which women are objectified as impregnation machines and homemakers, and as such may want escapism from womanhood. That's all fine to me. All that matters is how one treats real people.

More yapping under the cut, this is another subject I have tism thoughts about:

For me personally, yaoi was a fun fake cartoon playground where I didn't have to think about the Societal things in a story about being a woman. But you can still make them experience some of those Societal things to process them in your mind in a controlled environment. See: old yaoi tropes like "sold into sex slavery", "oh no because i am small and feminine everyone wants to put their penus in my butt", and the abundance of long-haired crossdressing bishonen. You can treat yaoi boys as girls without them actually having to fill the expectations of girls. They're cute little dolls that you can dress up and do whatever to, they don't actually have silly things like gender and sexuality.

Hell, some of them may as well be girls :P That connects the modern memes of "babygirl-fying my old man". Maybe girls ARE attractive! Doesn't matter if that girl is considered a 69 year old dude by the rest of the world.

As for "why not just go to yuri?", there's a couple things that might make that harder for certain people.

Female characters are rarer than male characters in popular media, because popular media tends to be made by dudes who make dude characters. It's hard to make yuri when there's just one female character, and her character is just "the girl". (this is why I personally enjoy using my yuri beam to turn every character in a woman lmao)

(Do note that in female-centric shows where girls outnumber boys and are given basic personalities (Supergirl, Steven Universe, MLP, She-Ra), the yuri ratio is astounding. I do believe that fandom CRAVES the yuri, though the stats of some fic sites might place the overall popularity under m/m and f/m.)

Within fandom expectations, I have felt and seen other people of gay experience say that they're scared of the yuri fandom LMAO. I feel like you get get away with more dark tropes in popular yaoi, but if you depict bad things happening in a fake story to female characters, the fandom will go after your ass.

There's a very loud minority of like.. kink-critical yuri-heads that say that anything other than platonic handholding is reflecting patriarchy and the male gaze or whatever. Of course there's normal fans who just like looking at boobs too. But as with any subculture, the loud rude fans often get their way.

On the other hand, some people might feel a little bad about treating girl characters poorly cuz it hits too close to home🥺 Personally, I do prefer to write some more horrific things happening between boy characters, and almost never between a boy and girl. Girl-girl horrible stuff is more dependent on my mood...

If you live in a restrictive culture, and you're a girl lesbian reading about girl lesbians -- well that's just too obvious that you're gay. It's a little easier to stealth as a lesbian fujoshi cuz 'well girls just like weird yaoi regardless of their irl sexuality'. Your mom might not care if you're reading Black Butler cuz that's just anime boy stuff, but if you bring home Titty Succin' Strawberry Panic you're gonna ring some alarms because YOU could be the titty sucker.

Female Expectations strikes again - character design edition. In popular media and fanart, I often see a larger variety of body types in guys - from giant orcs to tiny twinks to fat dudes. Whereas for women, there's always that slight stabbing feeling that women are supposed to look and behave a certain way. Whether it's fitting into the cool flannel and carabiner stereotype, or the super femme princess school girl thing that's popular in coming-of-age lesbian stuff, it can be alienating compared to how boys get to be horrible goblins and ratty creatures. Compare to video game sexual dimorphism - sure I can play a girl and make yuri, but I HAVE to be a sexy booby butt lady? I already have trouble finding old man uke in yaoi, now imagine how hard it is to find old WOMAN uke with actual wrinkles and white hair! (thank you to everyone who feeds me with characters that are horrible goblin women and ratty girls and stupid girls and girls who are just girls without any expectations)

Please note that my experience with yaoi and yuri is mainly from the 'perverting pre-existing characters' point of view. I never really got into BL and yuri genre stuff that's explicit and 100% canon and established relationship. Hell even in my own OCs I don't do established relationships :P They'll be totally undeniably gay but also never be able to hold hands 😈.

I'm older now and can have fun with both yaoi and yuri AND even het 🤯 But I can still recognize some of my patterns - like the aforementioned yuri beam, rather than making yuri out of existing characters. I think I am more likely to make yuri ocs than yuri of existing characters even! I just like my own girls more than the girls that other dudes write 😃So I guess that's my own reason. You will probably have your own reason that you can figure out!

[gayelderstourney]

OLD MAN YAOI BRACKET ROUND 1

Propaganda:

Ilya Tchaiko/Seichirou Agawa:

DEAR GOD BRO. you don't actually learn about the two of them until later in the manga but tchaiko is always talking about his record player that "an old friend" gave him and how much he loves music. in volume three we get some of their backstory and we find out it was seichirou that gave him the record player!!! we see them go on a few record buying dates and dancing together and it is truly unbearably sweet. i believe they are somewhere between 60 and 70? they met in college and have been together for 30 years, but seichirou got married and had a kid before then. in present day though seichirou is sick in the hospital. tchaiko visits him everyday though he makes sure he only visits when seichirou's son won't be there. this means he gets less time to spend with him :( finally, on the day of the main lesbian couple's wedding, tchaiko gets a text from seichirou's son saying he's in critical condition. tchaiko hesitates to go because he's scared but a mutual friend of theirs pushes him to go. when he gets there we get a sort of dream like visual where seichiro floats out of bed to hold tchaiko, looking how he did before he got sick, and they tell each other they loved spending their lives together. and then seichirou dies. it's soooooooooo sad that shit makes me cry every fucking time bro i cried getting the pictures but it's also soooooooo sweet love is so beautiful. AYUGH.

The manga has alot of different characters going through different things in their life, but all of these are different LGBTQ+ issues. These two are husbands who have spent most of their life together, and now have to accept that death will do them part. They often exchange classical music reccomandations that Tchaiko will play while Seichirou is in hospital and vice versa. Seichirou also has a son from a previous marriage so the manga touches on their relationship aswell. And (spoiler warning) but Seichirou dies from old age at the end of the manga and the scene is, while sad, also very heartwarming, as his son kind of realises the relationship the two of them have and tells him that "his favourite person is here"

Heavy/Medic:

They are referred to as boyfriends in an achievement (Beaux and Arrows) and on the official page for the End of the Line sfm it's described as "an action packed cinematic romp full of comedy action, romance action*, drama action, and actioney-type action.", there are no women in the sfm.

pretty sure they're both over 50 judging by some lines in the comic and their appearances (when the medic is asking satan to be put back on earth he says "another 50 years", implying he already lived for 50 years before he died). these two are typically seen together in canon as an unstoppable duo, and they are the KINGS of romanticizing surgery.

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 2

Propaganda Under Cut

Mel Medarda

she is the richest woman in piltover who left her family because she didn't agree with the way they did things (conquering and murdering). she sponsors jayce and viktor, and courts jayce, which makes people upset because, you know, jayvik. she and viktor are CANONICALLY parallels with much of their imagery mirroring the other's and they are literally the same height. and people are so weird and misogynist and racist about her. they argue she is manipulating jayce and doesn't actually love him. i am cognitively disabled and cannot explain things well, but, she is so fucking shouldered

Black woman who has a romantic arc with one of the main characters Jayce. Jayce has a best friend called Viktor and their relationship is pretty important plot wise, shown as a direct contrast to his relationship with Mel even though only one is canonically sexual/romantic. So naturally fandom as the transformative safe haven it is villainized Mel horribly coming up with theories about how instead of being a complex morally grey character she's actually evil and just wants to seduce Jayce for Evil Reasons. Since they couldn't use her as a supportive female friend with no personality, others just ignored her existence entirely or acted like Jayce would ditch her for Viktor. Majority of m/m shippers will reduce her down to her relationship with Jayce and an obstacle in the way of JayVik, ironically writing her as a far worse and less complex version of the character we get on screen. The misogyny reeks and combined with the racism? It's a pretty bad case. Only slightly mitigated due to the fact that the main characters of the show are women (and the lead is a lesbian) so thankfully the male focus of fandom is lessened as opposed to filling almost every inch. Still awful to try and search for good Mel content, godspeed girlies with taste.

She's one of the most interesting characters on the show, a rich politician, smart and beautiful and has a really complicated and intriguing relationship with the city's golden boy inventor. unfortunately golden boy has a sickly twink science partner so she gets sidetracked SO BAD

Nyota Uhura

She's Spock's canon partner in AOS, and I get it because they're not a great couple, but she gets villianized in fic so much. They constantly make her an asshole (which totally has nothing to do with her being black /sarcasm) and abusive just for the crime of dating a man headcanoned as gay. And I mean, I think Spock is gay and her being a love interest was unnecessary but still! She's cool!

Oh my god so in the Star Trek reboot she’s Spock’s girlfriend and the fandom has no idea what to do with her??? Like she is ALWAYS either such a bitch or like the mom friend? And there is so much more to her character than that? But they always break down her character AND find a quick and easy way to break up her and Spock. I’m not even mad at that but at least treat their relationship with some weight instead of just being like ‘it never mattered’. People can love multiple people throughout the course of their lives. You know that right? Just because you loved someone before doesn’t make your new love any less special. And even headcanoning Spock as gay… you realize he doesn’t need to be attracted to Uhura for their relationship to have mattered, right? Even if he confused friendship for romantic attraction, him feeling such strong friendship and openly expressing it is so monumental for him!!! 

she's dating Spock, who people ship with Kirk, so fans have decided that it's horrible writing and "really, they're just defending her, the movies turned her into just a love interests," which is not at all true. The movies do so much more for her to the point that the fans who have only seen the movies think that the main characters are Kirk, Spock, and Uhura instead of the Kirk, Spock, McCoy of the original series. Also having a black women being shown as being desired and loved in mainstream media, particularly by one of the most popular characters of all time, is a good thing, not making her "just a love interest"

[sooniebby]

danny i have a question

what's your stance on fujoshis?

personally i think therye weird asf, cause wdym they're women who obsess over gay men then 99.9% of the time turn around to be homophobic too irl couples and lesbians??

like i get it, toxic yaoi is cool and hot to read SOMETIMES- as long as you don't justify the shit tht they doo???

like stop glazing the mfkers from jinx and darkfall, fujoshi's thts highkey weird...

also i never got why fujoshis did what they did when they first came about, like sure straight men can be sucky and you wanna get revenge- but why did u have to bring the gays into this??? 😭

Eh… I don’t like them most of the times but if they don’t have lesbians/bisexual women I don’t care too much

But I’ve heard many Japanese gay men say that fujoshis literally be homophobic to their face. A JPN gay guy came out to his boss who was working on making a bl comic and she literally acted with disgust

So for many, they probably are just interested in the stories but there are also the sour apples that just ruin it… also I think the name meaning rotten women just puts a bad taste in my mouth, don’t know why you would willingly use it as a title

[c0derra4lyfe]

uhm the term yaoi is homophobic and the term fujoshi is also homophobic

by using those terms you're fetishizing gay relationships by acting like they are so especial, just leave gay couples alone,,

yeah it's not funny at all, it's inmature and REALLY weird..

Bookie... let me hold ur hand when I tell you this..

I'm just a gal having fun ;-; do NAWT take mai posts as a political statement... I'm just a cute girl girlblogging~ TwT

Also gay relationships are not special... they're lame and I hate them -_- JOKING.. IS THAT WHAT U WANT MEH TO SAY ;--; T-T

#DONTworry guys I'm a #ALLY. 💋 luv u gays, also I dabble in lesbianism from time tew time~ ;-; #heyladies.

Also if u think my blog is nawt funny and not interesting then leave -.-" .....nobody is forcing u tew be here boi ;-;

[that-one-i-think]

i hate when misogynists in fandoms will try and accuse other people of misogyny, or use it as some kind of... ammo??

like 9-1-1 discourse again,

theres a new show which kind of appeals to a similar demographic. I wanted to just read the posts in peace, but i saw people saying:

'oh yeah if people liked X 9-1-1 ship, they'll be hating on Female Character for 'getting in the way' of the mlm ship' and basically just saying that X-shippers cannot act appropriately about their ship being 'interrupted' by a female character.

... But, y'know... this is being said by people who are probably fans of Ship Y... which has existed for multiple seasons longer than X, and has an extensive history of bullying actresses for their characters... getting in the way of their mlm ship...

even if they aren't Y-shippers, they're still posing it as X-shippers being the root of a problem that predates them.

like instead of going 'hey like be careful of 9-1-1 fans, history of misogyny there lol' they decide to put the blame and fault of that on one of the newest ships in the show. Not on the biggest ship that has been doing misogyny since season 2! Never!

I don't gaf about either ship, honestly. But it's the way that these people are acting like their own misogyny doesnt count, but it does when people they don't like do the exact same thing. like it's fucking hypocritical. Even if they are also critical of Y-shippers' misogyny, they clearly don't view it as that big of a fucking deal.

And i hate that people will only ever call out misogyny as a 'gotcha'. never because they genuinely care, but because it's an easy card to pull when someone ships an mlm couple you don't like. They've also pulled out the 'yaoi fetish' card, instead of properly critiquing it... and i'm not saying it's above critique, i'm just saying people do it in bad faith.

AND IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE BECAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE DISSING THIS FEMALE CHARACTER, AND THE MAIN SHIP IS LITERALLY HER AND THE TWO GUYS. ALL THREE OF THEM. by main ship i literally mean in the show, it's like an episode off from being fully stated canon.

Fuck Yeah! Polyamory Main Ship!

But seriously, I have always been a multishipper, and I have faced a lot of similar situations of just misogyny blaming. No one ship is better than the other (unless it's a really fucked up ship that shouldn't be shipped) and trying to start discourse over "which is more misogynistic" is just a different version of "which ship is better but with MORALS"

I am also a believer of the fact that too many people in fandoms do have a gay fetish, but I also understand that there is a difference between shipping a gay ship and having a fetish. I have been accused of having a gay fetish, as a trans-man with a male preference who has had relations with other trans men. So a lot of gay fetish accusing is just trying to start argument or invalidate. Which is stupid when the invalidating stuff IS GENUINE PROBLEMS LIKE PEOPLES GAY FETISH AND MISOGYNY!

Also, I hate it when people bring fandom into rea life. I hate the idea of shipping real people, like I think you can think people look cute together but actively shipping alive humans is disturbing. What more, I hate it when people attack actors and actresses with things out of their control cause a ship will never ever be more important that a person's well being. Real people should not be at the whims of fandoms.

(To be fair, I don't trust people who don't have at least one straight ship and one lesbian ship they enjoy)

[fukaimetsu]

I'm sure im not the only crazy enough who think this recent wave of online discourse on twitter of ''why do lesbian likes yaoi or become fujoshi?" are just repackaged Gold Star Lesbian right.....

like, this discourse is always framed with statements like, ''I'm genuinely asking, why do lesbians become fujoshi? Girl, what are you getting out of watching 2 men having homosexual sex?'' and then it veers into Gold Star lesbian rhetoric or polilez Kool-Aid, attempting to ''question'' lesbian fujoshi sexuality and whether they are 'true lesbians' or 'not lesbian enough.' This is often justified with the excuse that they are ''centering their sexuality or interests around men'' (wtf?)

It just frustrating to me, like why do people always putting women on higher standard & especially lesbian women always feels the need to ''prove'' themselves to be true lesbian and such. this is no different than usual biphobic rhetoric that bisexual women are just ''faking it'' or doing it for ''trends'' , full stop.

Like, do you guys also do this to gay men who like yuri or female pop stars? Do you also question this gay men sexuality or his gayness just because he obsessed with female characters/celebrity? Sorry but I see a lot double standard here, that people always celebrate gay men when they're liking female pop stars or female characters as one of your own but if Lesbian just liking fictional male characters shipping suddenly you guys need to interrogate them and condemn them as if, they're wolf in sheep's clothing. Like what makes this gay men who like female pop stars and lesbian liking fictional male characters that's so different that make you tilted so much, to the point attacking women.

I am annoyed at this people acting like they're just ''genuinely asking'' but then full mask off end up attacking women over asinine thing and most of the time because they're strangely being bitter toward Fujoshi somehow. Acting like lesbian fujoshi being some sort of traitor because they like BL instead of yuri feels insane to me. like come on, you guys aren't different like gold star lesbian who make snarky comment toward lesbians who sleep with men or used to be in relationship with men.

like, Nobody bats an eye when gay men don't like BL and not being a fudanshi, why suddenly it's an issue with lesbian being fujoshi/liking BL romances?

You don't know the people behind the screen, they could be using alt accounts dedicated to BL content, and it just so happens that they’re lesbian fujoshi (I know this because I am one, I have a separate account for BL coupling/shipping). Or maybe they do like yuri but just don’t show it because you don’t know them personally! Even if they’re not into yuri, why is that a problem? It doesn’t mean they’re lesbophobic. Is it mandatory for lesbians to like yuri? Not all lesbians enjoy the romance genre or feel invested in it. Liking yuri isn’t even a good indicator of whether someone is a lesbian or not. There are straight, bisexual, and asexual women who like yuri. There are also men, as well as nonbinary or genderqueer people, who enjoy yuri.

''But it still weird, why do lesbians liking BL"

Have you ever thought that, maybe, some lesbians just appreciate any kinds of gay romances? or whatever their reasons isn't none of your business? it really doesn't matter what's their taste on media, it doesn't always reflect to their real life identity-in this case, their sexuality.

Or maybe because some Yuri works depicting lesbian romance might feel too personal for them, because I know some plenty of lesbians who feels they unconsciously cannot stop inserting/projecting their personal experiences to works that focused on lesbian romances & it just makes it hard to enjoying said works.

And no, it isn’t always due to internalized lesbophobia reasons, even if that can be one of the reasons. Some queer people might have different perceptions of media that portrays queerness because it is very personal to them. It can be feelings of euphoria or be perceived negatively, depending on the individual, as each queer person has different experiences. You cannot assume that just because some queer people avoid certain queer works for personal reasons, it means they have internalized queerphobia ,therefore, that they are bad and need to 'fix' their mindset. I know a lot of gay men who won't read BL because they feel it's too personal for them, I know a lot trans people who won't read a lot of trans media because they might be projecting themselves too hard due of their experiences and this isn't even uniquely to queer people even cis het people also tend to avoid certain genre or media if it's happen too personal for their experiences and identity.

Regardless of the reasons, why does it matter to you? why you feels like it's personal attack if some people not interested with your favorite media/genre.

Again, Lesbian aren't monolith. they're person with different minds, preferences and interests lol. They're allowed to be a fujoshi if they want to.

and I notice this trends tend to be.....end up with people (who questioning lesbian fujoshi) to making up worse assumption of them in order to defend their favorite fictional female characters or AO3 statistics, lol. in the end it just shitty fandom discourse all over again!

it just weird trend of zoomer using faux-feminism & queer academic language just to get angry over asinine things because they're salty their favorite valid media/characters aren't popular. and of course always attacking women despite they claim to be feminist, good job!

I swear, I never see this people like being critical to men but always being hypercritical toward women (especially fujoshi who just...mind their own business most of the time)

like I am sure we can have good discussion about this, but I don't trust ANY people on that hellhole site with poor reading comprehension and mob mentality for having this type of discussion on good faiths, especially not when it always ends up they're just crying over AO3 F/F statistics again.

Also I never take any people who are using ''women who centering their lives around men'' seriously and I will just think of them as mini radfem/TERF because anyone who tend to use that talking point unironically end up being more insane toward their fellow women, more sexist & just one step away to call women as ''useless foid who worship men" just because they like fictional anime boy or boy bands. Not surprised if they unconsciously agree with trans women are invading women spaces or their ideology aligned with Rowling without they realized it.

Another note, Not everything in these worlds is makes sense and sometime everything can be contradictory. you might think lesbian fujoshi or lesbian who likes BL are contradictory with their sexuality/identity but that just how...the world is & it doesn't matter, at the end of the day.

You feel happier for not thinking too much about it & focus on stuff you likes. just look at this 🫃preggo man emoji

[thrilling-oneway]

You are so right with m/f stuff! I’m not familiar with a lot of VBS shipping discourse, but it’s annoying to see how people can’t write an analysis on how important Tsukasa is to Rui without others dog piling them and saying they’re delusional and ignoring canon for their yaoi “with no content”. (At least on twitter, tumblr is much better with this) And as someone whose also bisexual, it’s so annoying seeing people use bisexuality as a gotcha to ship m/f and act as if its progressive and that it gives them the okay to hate on f/f and m/m pairings.

YES YES EXACTLY. God I hate when people keep saying that ruikasa has no content and their dynamic is underdeveloped whenever anyone talks about them. Like as biased as I am because I like the ship, they do have a very developed dynamic regardless of if you like the ship or not. Literally there's three events about it (potato and pandemonium + it was a pretty big background element in curtain call), one of which is the third event in the game. like if you don't like ritk that's perfectly fine, but when people are dogpilling ritk shippers for talking about their dynamic/pandemonium chapter 8/wtv and saying they're reaching, especially if the person doing this is an account dedicated to another rui ship/are a rui fan, it's a bad look because you're literally ignoring a very significant part of his arc. Ignoring massively important aspects of a character you claim to like just because of a ship is low. This fandom is way too set on everything being about shipping like bruh no one is telling you that you had to view pandemonium as romantic you can view it as platonic perfectly fine and not need to erase parts of rui's character to justify your rui/female character ship.

it's an especially weird situation with VBS as well. as much as I hold the earlier EN fandom to a higher standard there was a lot of discourse around VBS and the fact that they're implied gay. like it used to be a situation where if you admitted you shipped m/f vbs you would get jumped. as a comeback people would accuse biphobia but i never saw huge amounts of people being actually biphobic. saying "an and kohane are quite heavily implied to be lesbians (and it makes some people uncomfortable to see them shipped with men)" is a true statement but people didn't need to attack others over it. not liking a bi headcanon isn't biphobic unless you're actually being biphobic about it yknow? luckily it calmed down after a while but now you get jumped for not shipping m/f which leads us straight back to the statement about an and kohane. gbr the situation with vbs shipping nowadays is much worse than the situation when i first joined, obviously partially bc of the massive increase in fandom size but mainly because people are spewing actual homophobic rhetoric over akty ankh (someone literally tried to claim heterophobia was real bc of people not liking m/f vbs a couple months ago. actually this has happened multiple times).

AND YES GOD THIS FANDOM'S APPROACH TO BI HEADCANONS IS SO FUCKING ANNOYING. Like people only use it as a way to make m/f ships more queer and try to 1 up people with it because oh yes male/female couple are not the norm at all and they're so cool and different and if you add a bi/pan hc on top of that it makes you more progressive (/s). HCing a character as bi does not give you cool points and the fact that so many people only do it for m/f ships pisses me off to no end because people treat it like Straight 2 when bi people can be in m/m and f/f relationships. People can hc whatever they want ofc but it's so obvious sometimes that people are only using bi hcs as a way to quickly round off their hcs for every character so they can multiship or justify their m/f ships as queer and at that point I'd rather they just hc'd them as straight because I don't like seeing my identity used solely for the purpose of making a ship more queer because someone doesn't want their m/f to be a hetship.

[theliterarywolf]

Yup, top/bottom discourse is fucking wild, especially since it's always spearheaded by... non-men, like I don't think I know a single gay dude who doesn't acknowledge top/bottom dynamics, even if he's a switch. I mean, I'm F-bi, I've encountered lesbian/bi women who're bottoms/tops. Why the ever loving fuck shouldn't men also have top/bottom dynamics? It's especially wild when people think it's some big social move when they declare someone a switch, especially in a canon (top/bottom) gay couple

tbh I really don't get some people's overbearing hatred towards BL/yaoi and fujoshis nowadays because I was also there when those old annoying 2000s yaoi fangirls were running around, and I haven't seen them in years. maybe I just don't hang around in the right circles, but in my experience a lot of those weird attitudes towards mlm fiction and content have phased out for the most part since like late 2010s at least. it feels like the people who get up in arms over it are punishing regular people who just happen to enjoy BL for the sins of past fans.

Anon 1: Because we have a whole slew of teenagers coming into LGBTA spaces thinking that anything that remotely resembles their parental relationships (monogamous, top/bottom, having sex) is 'Heteronormative'.

Literally, you will not believe how many 'thinkpieces' (said with the largest of air-quotes) of 'Top? Bottom? Why do gay men want to be heteronormative so bad~?' or 'Queer people who want to get married should just admit they're straight' that I've been forced to see against my will.

Anon 2: See, the early 2000s ear of yaoi fandom should be seen in the same vein as 'lol, early 2000s weebs were so cringe'/poke fun but in that 'laughing because you were also in the trenches'

Unfortunately, we have a new generation of teens getting into fandom (often fandoms that they have no business being in) and taking a fleeting glance of all the cringe and horny humor from that period and taking it upon themselves to be the new, rational, PURE voice of fandom! To take it away from the evil, porn-addicted, cringelords of the past!

...When, in reality, all their harassing Adult Erotica creators and shoving themselves into spaces and conversations not meant for them is the real cringe.

[menstits]

i do think h*ikav*h is the closest thing to a "canon" gay ship in genshin but like

1- they dont come close to the actual canon lesbian ships in honkai and genshin like kiamei bronseele beiguang and eimiko

2- both of them are boring guys recicled from other boring guys and also alhaitham is kinda Weird with the Eremites (see his voiceline about dehya)

3- kaveh will never be kaeya.

Nobody on this earth will ever be kaeya. But also yeah like sorry they are yaoi bait and their dynamic is lame too and also just sorry i don't like kaveh he's a blonde man + his conflicts are boring to me he's literally every architecture student on this earth which is why people like him actually but sorry kaeya is just better.

Also like 😭 one thing about genshin is that it does have like. Men that are implied to be gay but not really any meaningful gay relationship between two men which is actually kind of funny because genshin fans completely overlook those things in favor of the fucking boring yaoibait couples. Like childe has two voicelines about being soo charmed and mesmerized by hot sweaty strong men fighting and itto has that whole line about painting his horns rainbow and the arataki gang being home to all social rejects or whatever and yet they're both dudes that the wider genshin fandom makes straightboy jokes about and then turn around and act like haikaveh is some kind of heart wrenching gay romance when they're legit just two dudes in their 30s with unsolved issues from when they were 21