#they're all from different eras too (i think???) so seeing them on modern earth would be so glorious

[captainkirkk]

Hazbin Hotel AU where Charlie strikes a deal with heaven to prove that her hotel works, so the gang ends up as humans on earth, given another shot at redemption

I just need to see all of them living in a shitty share house on earth together and introducing Charlie and Vaggie to Human Things

[kebriones]

Hey just letting you know that @/margaretkart is a racist and apparently some kind of modern greek supremacist. She plays the victim and acts as if Greek people are an oppressed minority in the world and refuses to acknowledge that race is a post colonial construct. Race as we know it did not exist during ancient times. She for some reason also is convinced that the worst thing in the world is having a person of color play a fictional Greek mythological character. God forbid the “purity” of Ancient Greek mythology becomes sullied by—gasp!—a Percy Jackson show. The Ancient Greek gods were the gods of all the people on earth like come on. That includes people of color.

1. What is the point of this ask. To inform me? It could've been done privately or out of anon. If you have issues with someone, block them or talk to them about it. Do not do this. Also why mention this person when there are many greek people on tumblr who hold very similar opinions? If you wanted to talk about the issue in general it would've been better to not mention one specific person. I haven't even seen this person mentioning this topic, but I have seen it before by other greek people here.

2. I've argued about this topic with fellow greek people publicly online here, in private talks and in real life. I am a firm believer that actors who play in movies as well as theater do not have to match anything from age to gender to appearance to origins of the character they're playing. Have I still complained that helen in the movie troy looks way too german? Yes. So do I understand where this sensitivity stems from? Yes. The systematic approach of ancient greek culture being a free for all for western countries while ignoring modern greek identity and how, for better or for worse, tied it is to the ancient culture, is an issue. I still think it's up to us to put ourselves in this narrative rather than complain that foreigners aren't catering to us.

3. I feel like describing someone as a racist and a "supremacist" over this is a little bit in bad faith. I have not had talks about this topic with this person, I don't care to have extensive talks about this topic in fucking general anymore because it's stupid and I know other people who feel that way and I'm not some morality police to go out of my way to go call them out. When the discussion reaches me, and when I'm talking for myself, I will say what I think. The way the discussion of race is online is so weird to me anyway. It's all way too saturated by current convoluted US ideas and I am not equipped to help detangle the mess for others.

4. Do I think that it's way more realistic for a movie about, say, classical era greece to have a character that looks to be of african origin than a character that looks Scandinavian? Absolutely. Did the actor that played Achilles in Troy:Fall of a city bother me? No, it's an actor playing a role, of an imaginary character no less. What bothered me was that he didn't have long hair, because hair was a very significant cultural element at the time, and his hair is used in the story. The same exact issue that I had with the actor that played hector in that series, who also didnt really look like a person from that area realistically, but who was otherwise very good at his role.

5. As for playing the victim and oppressed minorities: while i would not go so far as to use "oppressed minority" for the greeks of the diaspora, it's very real that modern greeks have been looked down at by westerners, historically. Do I think this justifies or has anything to do with being bothered about what actors who play ancient greek mythology characters look like or come from, in a foreign piece of art no less? No. But it's still a thing.

6. I am extremely stressed out and busy today but I still took time to answer this because i need to say again, please don't do this. If you want to help people to see things differently and maybe move away from biases, talk to Them. Just because I'm following someone or interacting with them online, it doesn't mean I'm endorsing or agreeing with or even KNOW everything they think and say and believe. I avoid reading posts from fellow greeks that are complaining about these things because i think it's an overreaction and I think we need to tackle deep and actual cultural problems that WE have ourselves and not care too much about what some Hollywood movie is doing. Whatever. Tired discussion.

7. Percy Jackson sucks and I do hate that it's based on anc greek mythology but I just don't interact with it. The fact that it is a generation's first taste of anc. gr mythology and thus has had an impact on their perception of it is true and important though. The same way it bothers me when all people know of the odyssey is epic the musical. But still, whatever. Some greek people might be more bothered by it all and need to talk about it online and I think that's perfectly okay and valid. I do my petty complaining now and then too.

8. "The ancient greek gods were the gods of all people one earth" you can say that of other mythologies that have an origin of the entire human race as part of their myths, that's how religions usually go. These gods were worshipped in specific areas in a specific time and the mythology was created by specific cultures of specific areas. This is a major complaint that greek people have, which I mentioned before, that this specific ancient culture's mythology is treated as a thing detached from the actual culture, the ancient one, and from its inheritors which happen to be the people that live here and/or have this specific cultural identity. I don't think this cultural identity has anything to do with the appearance of people, and we all know the greek identity has absolutely nothing to do with race and that's a very fundamental part of it.

9. I would try to make myself even clearer but I don't have time and I didn't want to leave this unanswered even though I also kinda wanted to because this type of anon ask does nothing good for anyone and I encourage you to engage with others in a way that is understanding and comes from a place of wanting everything to be better and kinder. And there's so so much you will disagree with, on fundamental levels, with other people online, if only because we all come from very different cultures with different values and upbringings, despite how it looks like we're all in a US-based melting pot. You have to make peace with that, and it can be difficult. I've had American friends that I deeply disagree with on important stuff, and I had to face the discomfort and take time to let myself understand that our cultures are different.

Anyways. I apologize in advance if anything i said makes no sense or is insensitive or condescending. I admit i was upset when I started my reply but if you want to discuss this further we can absolutely do that. I cannot reply privately to anon asks otherwise i would have. I hate call-out style stuff like this because they do nothing good.

[olderthannetfic]

https://olderthannetfic.tumblr.com/post/749680765765337088/a-food-but-in-this-context-it-doesnt-really#notes

Ohhh, it's good to have a term for this. Out of curiosity, what would you say is the line between like.... not whitewashing a character, reflecting their culture, not just Writing Them Like a White Person.... vs. giving into these kinds of stereotypes?

I'm in a fandom with a prominent MENA character who is one of the more popular characters in fanfic, and this character largely isn't defined around "his culture" in the canon. A lot of people see this as a problem to correct. I think sometimes that they could do some thinking for why a non-white character needs to be "close to their culture" and they don't similarly do this for white characters who come from specific countries, but I get that some of this is coming from people from that background who want to see themselves represented better in media and are tired of their culture being erased. To me the difference between what I've seen in fic from those people reflecting their real-world experiences (or also, non-MENA people who are more informed) is that there's an awareness of how modern culture is not the same as traditional culture, and how most real people do some picking and choosing of what practices they embrace and which they are could do without. The stuff where you can tell it's an ignorant person trying to be "progressive" but just being Orientalist is when they feel like they have to check off every single box for what it is to be "Middle Eastern" to them, and all those boxes just so happen to coincide with media stereotypes. I was wondering if you thought that was the line too or if you also had some other ideas about how to avoid the "space tamales" thing.

--

The biggest help is just to write a three-dimensional character with internal motivations that make sense. A decent amount of stereotypical tripe is the result of weak writing skills. But yes, thinking there's one specific standard for a group and needing them to be very different and marked is a lot of the issue.

The space!tamales problem shows up heavily when people do things like conflate completely different cultures (Latin America has more than just Mexico in it) and when they completely ignore canon to graft on what they think of as "authentic" (many canons set in space are not actually set in the future of our earth, and the ones that are are often set many centuries in the future when cultures will have changed).

The equivalent would be the Old Guard fandom thinking that people from the Crusades era are going to strongly identify with the modern cultures from their places of origin. I mean, they might... if they've been living there lately... But that's certainly not the only possible interpretation, and they're absolutely not going to be equivalent to a current 30-something from there.

[greatwyrmgold]

I've been thinking about Avatar: The Last Airbender recently. You know what's weird? The Four Nations. They're treated as a collective, a natural way to politically and culturally divide the world of Avatar, four units in balance. But they're not, really. They're too different.

Let's start with the Fire Nation, the closest to what you'd expect the nations to be. It's a nation-state in the most literal sense; a group of people who see themselves united by history, culture, and common descent, ruled over by a polity with a strong central government. (Relative to vassalage or something, not by modern standards.) It's pretty much exactly what you'd expect the Four Nations to be from their name, so the fact that it's the only one with Nation in its name is appropriate.

Then there's the Earth Kingdom. Unlike the Fire Nation, it's not really a unitary state. For the most part, the Earth King does not rule the Earth Kingdom like the Firelord rules the Fire Nation. It was overrun with bandits and warlords during the Kyoshi era, consolidated into warring states by the Roku era, and splintered into warring states again in Korra's era as soon as the queen was killed. The Earth Kingdom was kinda united during the Hundred-Year War, but with powerful lords acting independently of Ba Sing Se and occasionally calling themselves kings. It was united in Aang's adulthood, but that's an anomaly. Still, the Earth Kingdom isn't that different from what we'd expect from one of the Four Nations. It's a nation, just ruled by a polity too decentralized or fragmented to call a state.

We come to trouble with the Water Tribe...or, really, Water Tribes. There were times when the Northern and Southern Water Tribes were united under one chief, but it makes more sense to think of them are separate entities. The Northern Water Tribe has cities and armies and a hereditary chiefdom, with the chief's family basically being treated like royalty; the Southern Water Tribe doesn't seem to have any of those, being little more than a collection of villages with no apparent government.

Even if they were culturally identical, those distinct material conditions would make the two tribes' members very different. And they aren't culturally identical. And that's not getting into the Foggy Swamp Tribe. The Water Tribe isn't a nation. It's a collection of tribes nominally united by history and culture, but actually united by Waterbending.

And then there are the Air Nomads. It's hard to get a read on them; we don't see them in the actual show (damn you, Sozin), and the information we have on them doesn't map as cleanly to any real-world groups. They're nomads whose cultures are centered around fixed temples, with no territory and no apparent method of gathering food. They're a self-reproducing ethnic group whose men and woman are geographically separated. For that matter, they're a coherent culture, distinct from their neighbors, despite being geographically separated.

The Air Nomads are only vaguely sketched out, but they're even less like what you'd expect a "nation" to be. They didn't seem to have any central government (before they were reduced to the Avatar's family and his band of Air Acolytes), they don't have any territory to speak of, they barely have any culture beyond their spiritual beliefs. But they're still a Nation, equal to the other three.

The Four Nations have little in common. Only one and a half can be considered a unitary polity, like "nation" suggests. All except the Air Nomads and maybe Fire Nation show regional variation in culture; rural Earth Kingdom communities have more in common with the Water Tribes than Ba Sing Se, and the Northern Water Tribe arguably has more in common with the smaller, coastal Earth Kingdom states than it does with the other Water Tribes.

And there are plenty of polities, cultures, and ethnic groups that aren't considered one of the Four Nations. There are the daofei, the bandits and warlords I mentioned existing in Kyoshi's time. There are groups like the Shang of Yangchen's era or the Fifth Nation of Kyoshi's, who started as a mixture of different nations and coalesced into having a singular cultural identity (and a stronger governing institutions than most of the Four Nations). There are the sandbending Si Wong tribes, the Bhanti Island sages, and those bands from the Great Divide that nobody likes to acknowledge, but they do exist, unfortunately.

None of these groups, except arguably the United Republic of Nations, are treated as significant. They might be self-governing, with a distinct ethnic identity and spiritual beliefs and so on, and have a population that dwarfs the Air Nomads...but they're not one of the Four Nations, so they're not important. Most don't affect matters outside their immediate neighbors (generally just one of the Four Nations), almost none last more than a couple centuries (compared to the millennia that the Four Nations have been recognized as a thing), and just about all of them arguably fit into one of the Four Nations. The Bhanti sages are kinda independent but also kinda part of the Fire Nation, the various Earth Kingdom tribes are all earthbenders and are made to obey the stronger Earth Kings, even the Fire Nation colonies/Republic City aren't completely independent of the Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom.

The Doylist explanation is, of course, that the Four Nations are defined by their elements; one nation per element, one element per nation. But they're recognized as an institution in-universe—why else would the Northern Water Tribe assume leadership over the Southern when they were at the literal opposite end of the world? (They tried this before the spirit portal reopened, mind you.) And it's hard to imagine how that could be the case if it wasn't based purely on the elements in-universe, too.

The Avatar is clearly a central pillar of in-universe culture, particularly spiritual beliefs; that makes sense, since the Avatars have always been world-shaping figures, with supernatural powers beyond what anyone else is capable of. They rotate between four groups of people, each of which has a distinct powersets that each can only be inherited by members of that group.

The Water Tribe is seen as a unitary entity not because of any material reality, or even shared institutions, but because those are the people who can be Waterbenders. The Earth Kingdom constantly falls apart because of the difficulties in governing such a large area, and comes back together because Earthbenders exist. The Fire Nation is united by fire. The Air Nomads aren't put on the same level as the Fire Nation because their nation is politically significant, but because their existence is spiritually significant.

The other tribes, the daofei and the Shang, even the Fifth Nation? They might have territory and people, they might have distinct cultures, they might have political clout while they last. But they don't have their own element, and that makes them lesser. Fragile. As long as there are waterbenders, they will be one Tribe. As long as there are earthbenders, their ruler will be the Earth King. As long as there is a single airbender, the Air Nomads will be among the Four Nations.

[lafiametta]

Is there any theory about the show that you dislike? Personally, I don't like the idea that Daniel is part of the simulation and doesn't exist. I found him so charming in how desperate and how much of a mess he was that I would love to have him in the later seasons (same for Elliot!). Now, one theory I have is that the show would jump from past (1899) to future (2099) to present (1999?), such as to follow the meaning that Cerberus the three-headed dog is meant to represent. Would also explain the vintage TV displays we see in Henry's "office" and the one where Ciaran sent Maura his welcome message being vintage.

And for curiosity's sake, are there common tropes about shipping that you dislike? I hate emotionally constipated couples that never talk about their feelings openly. It just creates the most ridiculous of dramas, and I'm too old to sit through that! And because of that, here's a question: how do Olek and Ling Yi open up about their feelings? Both in the modern and the 1899 the New York AUs!

There aren't any theories that I dislike per se, although, yeah, the one where Daniel is actually dead didn't seem to make much sense to me. (I wonder if some of the theorizing was based a little too much on whether people shipped Maura with Daniel or Eyk, and if certain characters were evil or dead, it meant that a particular ship would win out. I mean, whatever... ship what you like, and you can just as easily ignore the bits of canon you don't care for.) But almost all the theories about the show were so interesting — Were the characters on a long space voyage, with the simulation as a way to keep their brains occupied? Were they prisoners being transported, with the simulation as their punishment? Was Henry Singleton just an AI within the simulation or was he "real"? Was Ciaran ever an actual person or was he an AI gone rogue? — and it seemed very foolish to discount any of them when we didn't really have enough to prove any of them true or false. (I'm using the past tense, but I really hope that we all continue to post meta and analysis, offering more theories about the simulation and the spaceship "reality'" at the end.) And seriously, I like your idea a lot — it would make sense that there would be a middle stage between the historical past of 1899 and the spaceship future of 2099. If the whole thing is actually happening in a present-day 1999 (with some of the 70s and 80s-era furniture now only looking a little dated), it would add a whole new dimension to things and make them more familiar to our own experiences. (And, yes, the three-headed Cerberus! Such awesome symbolism, which also meshes well with the three points of the earth sign triangle!)

As for common tropes in shipping, like you, I'm generally not a fan of miscommunication as a vehicle for drama. (Like people overhearing things they're not supposed to hear, and then acting out based on it, without telling the other person what they overheard or giving them a chance to clear it up.) And while I'm such a fan of domestic fluff, I don't like surprise pregnancies, especially if they're used just to introduce more drama. Ironically, given that they're such a big part of 1899, I'm also not a big fan of love triangles. (But maybe it explains why I started shipping the one couple who aren't part of a triangle!)

I think that in the both the modern AU and the 1899 New York AU, Ling Yi tends to be the more emotionally expressive one. She definitely says what she thinks and even when she doesn't say it, most of the time it's clear how she's feeling. (In the 1899 New York AU, Olek does have to do a bit more to pick up on things, just because she can't verbalize it to him as easily. But even in the show, they seemed to understand each other fairly well, even when conversing simultaneously in two different languages, so it's not as difficult for him as it might seem.) Olek is more reserved and finds it harder to fully express how he feels, although he finds it much easier to do so in a physical than a verbal way. There are definitely times, though, when Ling Yi has to drag things out of him and get him to use his words! But ultimately he feels things really deeply (still waters run deep!), so part of their growth together as a couple is Olek learning how to become more open and expressive.

[sakiaii]

Armored x Magic girls ‘title forever work in progress’ 3rd era

this era starts with a story in 4th kingdom. this kingdom differs from other in a way that they don't use magic which is around them but absorb it instead with their bodies being like batteries. magic users will often meditate trying to break their limit. story follows a girl that wants to join a special school, despite them also providing basic education they're also like a clan where those that want to stay can dedicate their lives to their interests. the kingdom has 3 problems and i'll go more into that in dedicated post. their king passed away and the youngest heir is stalling the ceremony (btw his older brother was exiled) spoiler he wants to resolve the issues first so that when he accepts the crown it will be a new beginning for the kingdom. he also wants to join the 3 kingdoms alliance but do to issues they don't want to be seen as policing this kingdom so he needs to deal with this if his kingdom is to truly join the alliance. on rare occasion a really powerful army shows up to save the day flying on the sky like dbz characters with many in the kingdom suspecting it's the secret guard of the soon to be king but they're actually from the alliance and their leader is dun dun dun the younger daughter of 1st era eye patch girl.

and that's why this is the 3rd era even tho there was no transition from 2nd but this stories are happening more then 20 years at least (ok just realized somethings are off maybe even more then 50 lol ) in the future from the 1st era's finale.

me saying how this stories are in the future and now i have to talk about next stories which are set in the past xD

a lot of other stories are about 4th kingdom's past

from it's starting days.

to stories where some women, different face keeps showing up and sacrificing herself in the face of tyranny to inspire next generations. could she be Irene. spoiler or maybe 3rd shadow whose a necromancer, maybe.

there was one with time travel but it had nothing to do with shadow. these are kinda unpolished fantasies.

few forgotten stories had monster hunting groups (inspired by mmo i played where the best gear was red and veterans could still be one shotted in raids if tanks skill was on cooldown xD ) and there was another planet where alien ships from 1st era crashed and whatever was on them changed the eco system and cities are now in spheres as outside is too dangerous.. just realized this one also had hunting groups lol and armored 1st era girl shows up here as apparently raven armor device is also among the crashed ships (umm idk this part didn't always sit well with me)(this story actually got recreated few times and in some versions it was earth and raven died in some version through time travel they meet and future Raven had broken system in left arm that makes you wonder what happened)

few things we find out in 3rd era is how Crimson castle actually had an army of red eyed vampires sleeping in their caskets.

also the 2nd kingdom will be more aware of something stirring up, the ancient vampires were awaken because of that and 1st era ruler girl has twin granddaughters one story could be how one of twins was send to earth as means of protecting just one heir as danger lurks and her mother's family all vampires and as well as you the audience would not know that and think she normal with her family being confused and comedically trying to figure out if that's really the case as it is rude to ask "so what are you?" xD

also there's a girl who can see magic. it's an ability of extinct race but some rare people have the gene. in her story a portal with monsters was opened and her friend kicked her out as it was closing and she stayed to hold them off.

and then the bards get a story of their own. but this are modern so they focus more on singing and in their story the kingdom didn't want to cause panic but there was a dangerous horde so bards organised a festival of concerts to distract but also help with gathered magic and as the magic sight girl who was commander of army sent to deal with hoard saw blue magic on the sky she saw it also meet with the red magic from opposite direction and ordered alarm as she flew in that direction much to everyone's confusion and then defeated looks from the bards and their principal as alarm went off then a wave of magic exploded breaking windows and we see principal holding a shield with her room filled with glass and everything tossed around she approaches the window and as she is looking down at people in the city she hears bells, a dragon and drums and sees in the sky multiple arrivals going in that direction and she herself joins them in the sky seeing flying ships, witches, dragon, 3rd kingdom's aircrafts, flying armies. and everyone gathered in front of a sphere there is banging coming from it as someone steps up and says "you did a good job but we're all here now" "you can rest" and the banging stops and sphere vanishes.

and then the finale happens 🥳

PS: 2nd kingdom had so many secrets did you know that in mountain chain there was another castle and a bunch of young dragons. compared to 2 ancient they're like cats next to lions.