#there's so much overlap there with early back from dead jason i have to say

[incoherentbabblings]

Here's a theory:

What if Tim was resurrected in a Lazarus Pit by Ra's when he was stabbed by the Widower in the desert?

What would his triggers be?

Dick? Damian? Steph? Probably all the Batfam to be honest, except like Bruce and maybe Cass, though I think with Cass it may be bitter resentment for leaving him.

I know Captain Boomerang would be one, and he'd probably be sliced within five minutes of Tim returning to Gotham.

I would just like to see an evil Tim, who isn't from the future 'cos that's boring, who just gets to go beast mode essentially, since we never get to see that.

Or maybe, I don't know, Tim overcomes his rage because of his love for Stephanie or something.

Just a thought.

This became too big again I'm sorry. Half canon meta, half fanon just going off the rails. Partial fic idea. Blergh. It's going under the cut because it's too long.

Again.

But okay you wanna talk evil Tim do you? I am always down for that, although pit madness isn't actually a thing in canon. I mean you do typically come out a bit BLRIGDSSHFGJRNES but you calm down soon enough. Cass and Connor and Kate and Dinah has been in there enough times to be proof of that. Remember Jason literally says to Bruce not to pin his actions on being BLRIGDSSHFGJRNES from the pit in Under the Red Hood. He's perfectly rational and in control of his actions. So I don't think Tim actually going for a dip would be the inciting incident.

I dunno. I like characters who do morally awful things to be utterly aware that they did an awful thing and justifying of their actions as a result. I think in Tim's case he would do absolutely massive leaps of logic to justify to - more than anyone - himself that what he did was not wrong. Or that he even actually did the morally awful thing to begin with. I didn't do that - they did that to themselves kind of jumps of logic.

Okay, so. We look elsewhere for Timbo to go off the rails. Luckily, I think we have a pretty good basis a bit later on in Red Robin.

The end of Red Robin is so... dark? Like it's kind of ridiculous compared the second half of the series, where we spend like half the series breaking Tim down, only for him to realise this, do a u-turn and take positive steps to rebuild some bridges. They bring back Harkness to taunt Tim, and he glares angrily through the glass, but no more. And then the last issue happens. And Tim's an actual mess in it.

He spends the entire issue trying to justify the eventuality of Harkness dying. He sets up this stupidly elaborate plan to have Harkness, get offed by the powers that be or another villain, before finally, just ensuring that he would fall and die. He gets angry at Bruce - who is totally not wrong - in calling out that line of thinking. Tim metaphorically set up the gun, put in the bullets, held it in his hand... then didn't shoot. Dick praises him for it, because Dick has been there and empathises. Bruce chides him for it, because Bruce has also been there and empathises. It's an interesting look actually in Tim's two mentors.

Anways, I think Tim was still wrong to do all that. And Tim thinks it too. He admits it. He knows his dad wouldn't have wanted it. He knows Dick and Bruce don't want it. He doesn't care. He stops himself... because he knows it's wrong.

But he tries and tries to justify the death as something that was totally out of his hands. As if it would have happened anyway. As if Tim didn't engineer the entire scenario. The mental gymnastics Tim does in that issue is frankly astounding.

So! I think if Tim had let Harkness fall to his death, he would and continue to do said mental gymnastics to try and a) remove any culpability from his decisions and b) twist and twist and twist until its was justified or 'accidental'.

I don't think Bruce is wrong in UTRH when he tells Jason that, if Bruce killed the Joker, it would be very difficult to redraw the new line of what is and isn't justified murder. I think it's true for Bruce, and I think it would be true for Tim.

And thus off he jumps the slippery slope.

The batfam is very forgiving when it comes to murder if said perpetrator is remorseful or wants to do and be better. Easier to count who hasn't attempted/been complicit/gleefully committed murder at this point. It's a thing of the genre I suppose. If Tim is at the stage of just flat out denying he did anything wrong, I genuinely can't see any of them standing with him. Like no-one lead him to that, he made his own choice... He's utterly delusional, and that's sad and mournful and painful, but he chose this. He keeps chosing this.

I think therein there's a lot of overlap with Jason at this point, but perhaps there's a distinction in that Jason at this time would and was quite gleefully running around killing entire prison populations. I don't think Tim would ever be that trigger happy. And I don't think Tim would be particularly power hungry in his own right. Controlling, yes. We can see he's very much like Bruce and Jason who have a weird paternalistic view of their relationship to the city. The words 'my city' and it 'belonging' to them - the three of them have that in common. It would be interesting to talk about where the three views come from and how they understand it I suppose. Babs does this too sometimes. Oracle is a heady thing.

Side but also kind of important note going forward: Interesting that the one other Gotham native is exempt from this line of thinking during this time huh? Steph doesn't have a sense of ownership about the city itself; just the people within it. Interesting interesting interesting I wonder if it pops up elsewhere in other runs huh like I wonder if it could be stretched into an actual piece of storytelling meta by someone with too much time on their hands...

Anyway - how far do you want to push Tim's controlling nature regarding the city? How far do you take him just flat out denying the reality of his actions? How much does he let that anger grow hotter and hotter? How much does those violent fantasies he has grow until he's creating ways for them to be real? How and where and when do you personify and objectify that obsession with Gotham and put it onto people. A group of people. A [blond] person. Cough. Cough.

He doesn't stop loving his family very, very much. He thinks their naive, and ragging on him when he's doing nothing wrong. That frustration will only grow.

Mmm. Thoughts thoughts thoughts...

[dyketectivecomics]

With Cry of the Huntress wrapped up, I’m gonna be taking a good long break from this read to switch over to the Brubaker/Cooke Catwoman run. But before I do... Let’s do another round of Thoughts™

(usual tw for canon typical violence mentioned)

Renee

a Return of Scarface features her Debut, and!! Underwhelming start for her character tbh, but these things tend to be that way. First intros for minor characters are usually underwhelming when they don’t know if the character will catch on

altho while i was Supposed to be reading for Renee for those early issues and I got SWEPT UP on the melodrama of Bruce/Vicki I CANT BELIEVE IT

on first glance, Renee is clearly meant to be another voice for Jim & Bullock to bounce off of. No-nonsense, one of the few “honest” cops etc etc. Too early in these issues to get a feel for her character, given that there isn’t much of one. Rucka really did see her and say “its free real estate” didn’t he fjdlaks;

Steph

So far only got to her First Time Spoiling! and i love her already fdjakls;

i mean sure i ALREADY loved her, but omigod she was so READY to kick her dad’s ass. AND BATMAN SHOULD’VE LET HER FJDKALS;F

a little sad that i’m not gonna see her again until Tim’s robin run, but that’s just the nature of the beast *sigh*

Lonnie

he showed up again!!! for the Annual!!!!

on one hand LONNIE YES bc he had SUCH good intentions, even while he was blackmailing the mayor but like can we Blame him? i think not

and on the other LONNIE NO bc he was using the eclipso diamonds to blackmail the city with which :/ lonnie honey noooooooo

anyways, i love him ur honor lmao

Helena

when we left helena, she was making it clear that she was heading to gotham with uhhh the kid from her solo... which.... okay yeah they just dropped him entirely so i guess i have to assume that he was put in the foster system like they originally planned but???? *note for future randy, actually DO something with that instead*

she puts on her costume again and starts patrolling Gotham streets and Bruce is NOT havin it (which lol)

they team up to stop a gang or w/e, thats not as important as by the end one of them has a suicide vest (usual Yikes™ here) and helena makes the split-second decision to drive him away from the crowd and barely escapes the blast herself.

batman berates her, saying he should’ve had the chance to disable it to save everyone, including the bomber, but helena stands her ground, saying that he doesn’t know FOR SURE if he WOULD have disabled it in time.

which like. CAN WE BLAME HER. as always i admire bruce and cass’ commitment to Preserving Life, but like.... sometimes a Call has to be Made, and they’ll never Make that call so fjkdlsaf.

before we get to the Overlapping story, let’s talk Tim

Tim

electric city was a good 3 parter, major thing of note was Bruce had his heart stopped and was clinically dead for a minute. Tim seemed to take that to heart

To the Father I Never Knew, tims dad has recovered and it might be the End of Tim Robin (but we know that’s not true)

To circle back to the Robin Annual, Tim and Lonnie seem to have a BIT of a rapport that could be built but well.... there’s no telling how well that goes obvsly. gonna have to wait to read more and see how things go.

lmao @ my note here for Steph’s intro “tim got absolutely DECKED by that brick... nice” fjdkasl;f

oh also “steph’s making POINTS. tim’s only got a few months more training on her at this point.... you can have TWO robins bruce...... its Okay” fjkdasflk; GALAXY BRAIN PAST RANDY. UR RIGHT.

Something thats a common theme that I made note of too, is Bruce takes a LOT of opportunities to sideline Tim. Having him hang back and do computer research and recon... I can’t tell if the writers for this era are trying to be More Aware of the Child Endangerment aspect of crimefighting now that Jason’s died, or if its just kind of a coincidence now that they’re on the precipice of the Digital Age.... its something to Make Note of though....

Now.... Cry of the Huntress:

Overall, I think Tim and Helena worked well together tbh! at least in this!

Tim’s trying so VERY hard to be Serious and Professional™, and to be fair, he’s also dealing with having to make up excuses in his personal/school life too, now that he’s coming home with more noticable bruises and scrapes.

Helena on the other hand, is still finding a lot to love abt the Thrill of being a vigilante. she’s the one cracking more jokes around tim (altho he had a few cracks here n there earlier on), also calling into question why Batman’s so against her and yet allows a Child™ to patrol on fuckin SCHOOL nights (altho to be fair for this story, bruce didn’t know tim was Out so)

there’s a lot to work with this mini, there’s a lot that’s brought up from previous ones too, but overall, following it up from the Huntress solo, i could Kinda be okay with recommending this for ppl who are doing backreading for either tim or helena.

its not like, an absolutely necessary read for their characters, but it is a fun quick romp at least... all things considered.

[bigskydreaming]

A thing that makes me always raise my eyebrows is the insistence that Tim is “obviously” the smart one. Not only it’s contradicted in plenty of official DC material, but it doesn’t make sense because you can’t measure genius and even if he was it wouldn’t make the others less brilliant. They're all confirmed prodigies. And yet the extent to which this headcanon is treated as law, it's such that sometime it’s difficult not to wonder why they chose the high-class boy to lord as the smart one.

Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my posts about finding it pointless to compare and rank members of a family whose high concept is they’re ALL Mary Sues, essentially, but you’re dead on about not being able to measure genius. As far as I’m concerned, canon validates the idea that they’re all genius-level intellects and when everyone in the room is a genius, who the hell even cares who the ‘most genius’ is?

Like, its one thing to emphasize different areas of expertise and the way they correlate to the different siblings’ personalities, to give them each a measure of distinction - for instance, personally I tend to write Dick as the most intuitive of the kids and most strategically minded when it comes to coordinating and understanding people and their motivations, strengths and weaknesses. I write Jason as the most tactical minded, better suited to taking point in operations or cases that revolve around understanding and manipulating situational and environmental factors and elements. I mention a lot how similar I view Dick and Jason being and this is another one of those areas….they have very similar fields of genius, but slightly different focuses in how that manifests.

Tim, to me, is the most analytically minded, which is what for me makes him the most like Bruce in terms of HOW his mind works, his approach to things, not because he and Bruce are like, top tier and everyone else falls somewhere beneath them….rather, I view Tim and Bruce being similar in that they both excel at compartmentalizing not just emotions but big picture puzzles or issues in general…they’re good at ‘taking apart’ situations, disassembling them to their individual components and thus making deductions that others miss or would just take more circuitous routes to reach. I would also put Babs in this particular school of thought as well.

Damian is still developing so its hard to say for sure yet since writers in canon are still feeling him out in a lot of cases, which results in a lot of his inconsistent writing in particular - they’re still trying to find what methodologies and areas of expertise will make him most distinct as he ages, I feel. But personally, as of now I would actually put him and Steph as being similar in their genius lying in adaptive thinking….Damian in particular does not get nearly enough credit for how MUCH he changed and how QUICKLY, in terms of comic book time…..he’s shifted entire worldviews of his in a matter of just a year or two, based on an influx of new information and new paradigms, which is NOT easy to do. People focus overly much on his temperament, I think, and use that to pigeonhole him as stubborn and not all that different from when he first debuted, but those are just mannerisms. His actual ways of thinking have dramatically shifted in a very short time.

Cass I would put on the other side of Dick….like if Dick’s genius lies in  emotional intelligence, strategic thought, and intuitive thinking, those areas….Jason’s to the right of him, overlapping most with strategic thought and intuitive thinking, while Cass is to the left of Dick, more heavily oriented around emotional intelligence and strategic thought. Though again, all of them have high degrees of all of the above, I’m just talking about what gets emphasized most in most of their thoughts and actions relative to each other, specifically.

Duke is also still developing, due to how new he is overall, and how few writers other than his creator have written him. But for the moment I see him as a mix of adaptive genius, emotional intelligence and deductive reasoning.

But bottom line….they’re ALL exceptionally brilliant. There’s no way for them to do what they do otherwise. The entire premise of the Batfamily is you put any single one of them on a team or in a room filled with anyone other than their family….and they’re going to end up in the top percentile and usually take the leadership position, even while there are other bonafide genius inventors, scientists and intellects in the room. They’re a family of geniuses. Its just fact, lol.

So like you said, the casual insistence on Tim, Babs and Bruce being the most genius, despite repeated canon instances of all the others easily keeping pace….its suspect, and doesn’t help that Tim, Babs and Bruce are the three characters with the most ‘normal’ middle and upper class backgrounds, while Dick, Jason and Steph had lower class origins and Dick, Cass, Damian and Duke have unorthodox upbringings and are characters of color.

Like I said, I myself see certain similarities in HOW Tim, Babs and Bruce approach situations and overlap in their methodologies and schools of thought that the others don’t necessarily share to the same degree….and these actually could theoretically stem from certain similarities in their early backgrounds that the others don’t share as much. But these are all about the APPLICATION of their intellects. It has nothing to do with like….them being smarter than the others or more adept at problem solving, outwitting bad guys or making save-the-world strategies, things all of them have done in abundance.

I feel like way too many fans put way too much effort into picking apart canon in search of panels that definitively prove so and so is the smartest Robin or best detective in the family, when the reason it IS so hard to find a definitive answer for that and the reason fans of every character have provided ‘proof’ that backs up their claim that their fave is the smartest….

Is because that’s not a question that has an actual answer and all that’s really being proven is that every single member of this family is a freaking genius.

And again, there is no blue ribbon or gold medal for being the mostest genius.

So the more people insist on treating those specific three as obviously the smartest, and the more its taken for granted and not questioned….yeah, that’s when I raise an eyebrow with you, anon, and go….are you sure you guys are actually saying what you think you’re saying there, because some of us are hearing something a little different here.

[erza155]

DC Primer By Erza155 (for the absolute n00b

ok, before you even look at all of this, just know that this is all my personal opinion. just so you know

Movies

               Live Action

Justice League- Awesome. Awesome. You’ve probably already seen it.

Wonder Woman- See above.

Man of Steel- The first time I actually found myself actually being interested in Superman. This movie pushed me to actually research into Superman and see something beyond the corn-fed all-American boy narrative idiotic fanboys have shoved down our gullets for the last few decades.

Suicide Squad- Bomb soundtrack. It’s weird but it’s worth a try. A few members of the Justice League make 3 second cameos.

Batman vs Superman- The movie that launched a thousand superbat shippers. I personally like the cinammonmatography, but a lot of people disagree but that’s them.

Superman (2006)- I’m not sure how I feel about this movie. But Brandon Routh is pretty. And Routh!Superman/Bale!Batman was pretty big for a while. But it’s rare to see that around anymore.

               Cartoons

Superman vs the elite- Superman fights British dudes and goes crazy because of red kryptonite. People actually die because of Superman’s direct actions.

Justice League Animated Movies (2012-2017) Chronological Order

Justice League: Doom- Vandal Savage uses stolen information from Batman's secret files to mastermind a plan to exterminate the Justice League. That’s the plot. I actually don’t remember if I actually watched this movie? Make of that what you will.

Justice League: War- New 52 cartoon of the Justice League. This is how they come together in the new DC Universe. Has some casual Overlaps with the live action Justice League (2017) movie. Fun watch. Also, great banter between Green Lantern and Batman.

Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox- Sadness. There’s a few moments of happiness, but this movie is fucking sad. It deals with what happens when you fuck with the timeline and it’s mcfucking weird. Now that the plebian opinion is out of the way, I personally loved this movie. It was so twisted and it made my tiny heart flutter.

Justice League: Throne of Atlantis- Atlanteans are coming for you bitches and Batman is not happy. ™  

Justice League: Gods and Monsters- AU version of justice league. It’s bomb. It’s like Injustice and Justice Lords but with Vampires!

Justice League vs Teen Titans- Exactly what it says on the cereal box with additional prizes on the inside. But, this is the new teen titans led by my favorite brat, Damian Wayne.

Justice League: Dark- Magic! Adventure! Gambling with demons! Sassy Batman. This movie is coming for your wig. Be prepared. It’s awesome and I love it. But then again, I’m a slut for DC.

               Batman Movies

Batman: The Killing Joke- This one is weird. Read the original comic book instead.

Batman: Assault on Arkham- Suicide Squad, The Cartoon!

Batman: Gotham Knight- Apparently if you liked the Dark Knight Trilogy, this is the movie for you. It fills in the blanks for certain spots that the movies don’t touch and it has an interesting animation style.

(There’s a bunch more but I don’t exactly have high opinions of those, so yeah…)

               Batman Has Problems with his Children/ Batman’s Problematic Children

Batman: Under the Red Hood- Jason Todd (Robin #2) comes back from the dead and kicks ass. Additional awesomeness in that Jason Todd is voiced by Jensen Ackles.

Son of Batman (2014)/ Batman vs Robin (2015)/ Batman: Bad Blood (2016)- Damian Wayne trilogy. If you like hyperviolent, bratty children who learn to come to terms with themselves, this is the movie for you. If not, oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

               Batman and Superman Are Totally Super Manly Men Who Work Well Together

Superman/Batman: Public Enemies- Batman and Superman work together to stop Lex Luthor and a meteorite. I don’t remember watching this.

Superman/Batman: Apocalypse- Direct sequel to the above but can function as a stand-alone. Batman and Superman go to another planet. Wonder Woman and the Amazons are awesome. Big Barda reminds me once again that I am Gay™ for strong women. Supergirl is introduced.

 TV Shows

               Live Action

Smallville- The original. This baby ran for an actual fucking decade. And every live action superhero show that is currently airing in the U.S. needs to thank this show because it’s what started the whole phase.

Arrow- This show is about Green Arrow and a lot of people like it. I think I gave up somewhere between seasons 2 and 3. It wasn’t my cup of tea. The reason I’m mentioning it is because, it actually started an entire spinoff universe known as the arrow verse and every year there’s a really big crossover that gives lots of nerds boners. (me included)

The Flash- Spinoff of the Arrow? But it’s about the Flash. It’s #2 in the arrow verse. It’s interesting and I love it. They made Iris West black and I was here for it. Candice Patton is amazing, and each season only gets better. The more characters they add, the happier I am. Although, I do bitch sometimes. (I have never been satisfied- Hamilton)

Legends of Tomorrow- Spinoff of The Arrow and The Flash. Secondary characters from both shows come together in this show and travel through time. It’s beautiful. Like it’s actually really great. Please watch it. Also #3 of the Arrow Verse.

Supergirl- 1st season was by CBS and is currently the only season I’ve watched. It was pretty decent but it took a lot of Superman’s villains and transplanted them to Supergirl’s story. Also, Tyler Hoechlin played Superman in this show for a hot minute. People liked it. I try not to think about it too much. #4 in the arrow verse.

Arrow Verse Wiki for more info

Additionally, the DCEU has a bunch of extensive shows that do not relate to superheroes like Lucifer, Izombie, and Preacher. ← All of which are awesome shows with supernatural aspects by the way.

               Cartoons (In no Particular Order)

Young Justice-  Babies. Beautiful Babies. Season 3 is supposed to come out this year and I would sell my grandmother to salt mines just for an early peek.

Static Shock- Cartoon with a young black protagonist? Sign the fuck up! This show was my shit! It’s honestly really awesome and positive.

Teen Titans- You already know.

Batman the Brave and the Bold- Classic. Timeless. There’s not enough space or time. This show introduced me to Plastic Man and I would die for this show. And this version of Batman is honestly just amazing and everyone in this show is amazing. I love it.

Justice League- Ok so the original show is awesome but I don’t care if you watch it or not. The only thing I care about is that you watch the specific episodes I am going to list.

Episode #37- Season 2 Episode 11 “A Better World Part 1”

Episode #38- Season 2 Episode 12 “A Better World Part 2”

These two episodes are my shit. Please watch it. I’ve watched these specific episodes so many times. Just please.

Batman Beyond- Bruce Wayne is old and there is a new young Batman. This show is weird, but the interesting kind of weird. It wasn’t my cup of tea, but I didn’t hate it. Some of the episodes were actually gold though. Harley Quinn has twin Granddaughters.

Video Games

You’re asking the wrong person sorry. The only video game I care about is Injustice and I only watch the playthroughs for the Lore (animated version).

 Comics

               Personal Faves:

·         DC Bombshells

·         Gotham City Sirens

·         Injustice

·         Red Hood and the Outlaws

·         Earth One series

New 52 vs Golden Age vs silver Age

Ok, so unfortunately, comics are weird. Like really fucking weird.

This is the Timeline you need to remember in regards to DC specifically

Golden Age- 1930s to 1950s. Comic books were first being published. Batman was a caricature, and used guns. Superman fought the KKK.

Silver Age- mid 1950s to 1970s. Post World War 2. Introduced new heroes like the Flash. Parallel Universes introduced.

Bronze Age- 1970 to 1985. Teen superheroes are now an established thing. Also, DC fucked up a lot but these times are past

Modern Age- Hi! It’s your buddies dark and gritty storylines. Anything from 1985 until now falls into this era/age.

New 52- 2011 relaunch by DC. Introduced new canon and fucked all of us up.

Rebirth- 2016 relaunch. Once again, fucked all of us up.

Pick and choose what you want. It’s what we’re all doing.

If you want an additional document for shipping, please inform me.

[smartshopperteam]

How Often Can You Dye Your Hair Without Ruining It?

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Confession time: When I was in my mid-teens, I spent every morning straightening my hair in oblivion. (Don’t judge: The early-aughts were a hard time for anyone with naturally curly hair living in New Jersey.) And in an effort to disguise my dead ends, I dyed it—often. Like, twice-a-month often. I’d grab a couple boxes of the at-home stuff and let my best friend go HAM, making me a shade or two darker until my brown hair was Morticia Addams-level black. Eventually, I went to a professional to fix the dual-toned mess, and her best advice was for me to chill with the dye for a while lest I wanted my hair to fall out. Instead of asking any questions, I just sort of sheepishly bowed my head in shame and left with my tail between my legs.

MORE: This Quick Trick Will Reveal If Your Hair Is Healthy or Not

While I know now that it was a mix of heat-styling with a cheap straightener and my reckless usage of at-home hair dye that caused all the breakage, I have to wonder: How often should you dye your hair if you want it to be healthy?

Before we get to that, first, a quick breakdown on the types of hair-coloring processes available: temporary lasts for just a couple shampoos; semi-permanent, which is recommended for going lighter, lasts a couple weeks; demi-permanent, which is great for going darker or boosting shine, can last up to six weeks; and permanent stays put till you cut it off. If you’re going darker, which means depositing color rather than stripping it, you can really color your hair as frequently as you’d like, says Jason Backe, CEO of Ted Gibson Beauty and L’Oréal Professionnel Ambassador. It’s a bit trickier if you’re going lighter, though: “When going lighter, you should wait four to six weeks in between color services to maintain it and avoid too much regrowth, which can leave banding in the hair,” says Redken’s Sean Godard. About that: Banding is what happens when you let your roots grow in too much and the new dye overlaps with your old color, creating a telltale horizontal “band” around the head near the root. If you’re platinum, it’s doubly important to not to overlap color, since stripping or bleaching the hair can equal major damage.

Imaxtree

But Godard says that someone going one shade—or level, as the pros say—in either direction could ostensibly head to the salon every week if they wanted to, depending on the service. “Using an acidic, demi-permanent color like will never damage the hair,” says Godard, who recommends Redken Shades EQ, naturally. (This is what I should have been doing when I was trying to disguise my dead ends.) “It’ll actually add lots of condition and shine.”

And over-doing it won’t make your hair come out in clumps like my mother warned, but permanently dyeing your hair too often could lead to mid-length breakage—and you run the risk of the color not taking, says Lorean Cairns, the co-founder and creative director at NYC’s Fox & Jane Salon. Although the ends of your hair are more porous, and therefore absorb more color, “once it’s is depleted of nutrients by over-dyeing, the hair color pigments won’t have anything to grab onto within the hair shaft,” she says. “This loss of structure within the hair can create a vicious cycle: Your color fades, so you want to color it more, but that can create color fade, as you’ll begin to damage your hair.”

You can avoid this by keeping your hair healthy with color-safe shampoos and conditioners, as well as making sure you’re staying out of the sun, or using a UV protectant like Living Proof Restore Instant Protection Spray when it’s unavoidable. You can also request an in-salon treatment, like Redken pH-Bonder or L’Oréal Smartbond, which can preserve the integrity of the hair.

So, as a rule of thumb, listen to you hair—and your colorist—if you think you’re dyeing your hair too much. There’s only one hard and fast rule: If it starts falling out, head to the doctor STAT.

MORE: 35 Winter Hair Color Ideas to Bring To Your Stylist Right Now

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