#there will also be DISCUSSIONS with their superiors

[fromchaostocosmos]

You do not need to be white to be a colonizer so you not be white has nothing to with it.

That you keep calling Judaism a religion is a part of the problem. Because we are not just that.

Of course there is value is cultures and societies are no longer around. The reason that I brought them up is not to say that we Jews or more accurately using our actual name יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל are more superior for surviving.

No I used those specific examples because all of them if you knew anything about the history of my people are all ones who tried to destroy us. They did their best to ruin us, to murder us, to rape us, to tell us what we could and could not do.

They enslaved us, they colonized us.

Each one of those examples I gave have to do with Empires that did Horrors to us.

And my point is even though they did those things we are still here and we have survived. And on top that there is an extra fuck you in that they are not.

It is the way we say fuck you to Arch Titus and to Hitler. It is a you tried to kill us and destroy and fuck you we are still here and you are not.

If you can not understand that I don't know what to tell you.

Like many of our Holidays can be some what summarized as "they tried to kill us they failed let us commemorate and eat and party"

Jews, יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל are a tribe. We are a very old tribe. Judaism is the name that put onto practices and beliefs of said tribe.

We are not just a religion and that you keep calling us a religion shows that you are not getting it.

You do understand how we function. You think that we are trying to tell you how do to your stuff and that we are being party poopers.

That is not what is happening.

Christianity is not an off-shoot, branch off, evolution, etc. of Judaism. Christianity is some original ideas, stuff stolen from Judaism, and stuff taken from a whole bunch of various pagan beliefs as well from other religions such Buddhism and Hinduism.

All of that got blended and mixed and that is Christianity.

The thing about Christianity that you and lots of other people may not like, but this is just a fact of reality is that is foundations are built on antisemitism.

It set itself up by stating we are not the Jew and we are very different from them, in fact they killed our god.

When you look at the history and study it you see this. This whole thing is something gets studied by students of theology.

And this is something that we Jews have been discussing for a very long time.

Christians as individuals may not antisemitic, but Christianity the religion is founded on antisemitism and as an institution very much is antisemitic. That is just a fact.

I don't believe in Lucifer or any of them so you want to do whatever it is you do go and do it and enjoy.

My issue is and always has been when you and anyone else comes and takes that which is not for you to take.

My issue is the propping up of Christian Supersessionism (also know as replacement theology) which yes is what you are doing. My issue is the talking over Jews and thinking you know more then us on our own stuff and bringing in some sources and acting like you understand when you clearly do not.

I always find with pagans that it is either a very pleasant nice experience and the person is just respectful and the conversation is interesting. Like I enjoy it and can ask questions and they can ask questions and we both can learn things and come away with new information and understanding.

I always enjoy those and have had many of them. I always open to them and I enjoy learning so when I get the chance to understand how stuff works or why someone does something a certain that is great.

I've met many really wonderful pagans who are just very respectful of the many different groups with closed practices and want to learn and listen to those from those practices to make sure they are being respectful.

I've seen many a pagan who when asked certain questions will say that it is not for them to answer that question and then direct the asker to people from the correct community who they know are okay with answering those kinds of questions.

And I'm always thankful and appreciative that they understand the boundaries and limitations and respect them.

And then there are ones like these. And the ones likes these are always just the most exhausting, frustrating, and many times upsetting.

And the experiences like are never like slightly annoying or mildly irritating. No they it is always just the fucking worst.

And I see it happen with my fellow Jews and other people who have closed practices.

You either get a very lovely interaction even in cases where someone did something offensive or is appropriating and it is because they just did not know and they when given the information do better.

Or you get just the worst.

This for me has been one of the worst. I feel like I am talking to brick wall. Like everything I say gets taken out of context to be clear I not saying that means that everything I say is being taken out of context I just feel that way. (I do however think that there are couple things that I do think were purposefully taken out of context and/or purposefully misconstrued such my comment about us still being here while listing various empires that are not).

It is exhausting. But this is also something that I've had to do so many times before when dealing with anything related to being Jewish and Judaism and Jewish history and etc and correcting those who are not Jewish.

Because it doesn't matter what the topic might have been the refusal to let us Jews be the authority ourselves is something that goyim just seem to have in common pagan, monotheistic, atheist, or whatever.

The idea that we know better and best on us is something that can not be allowed and that is the common thread in all of those conversations.

Like maybe we are not the problem here, I know perish the thought.

And maybe for the 5 seconds you could just listen to us and like understand that I and other Jews in the comments are not trying to telling how to live your life all we are asking is for you stop taking from us, stop doing Supersessionism specifically in this case Christian Supersessionism, and like leave our things alone.

Hi, Shi! So, I saw your post about white saviours in the community and I wanted to ask about the Judaism one specifically. I am not white but nor am I Jewish, in ethnicity or religion, but I was also told that demonolatry spreads harmful ideas about Judaism. Because of that, I kind of stepped back from my demonolatry research for a moment. But your post did get me thinking. I guess I'm kind of just asking for clarification. Is it okay for me to practice demonolatry as a non-Jewish person or not? Sorry for the super long ask. Thank you, love your blog!

Okay, this is a kind of complex topic.

Demonolatry is the practice of worshipping demons. This can apply to any demon not just those with English names. There are people who worship the demons mentioned in Islam just as much as there are those who worship those with Jewish and Latin names, and there’s a ton of overlap.

The concept of “demon” can only exist if you conceive of some kind of supernatural divide between Gods and spirits. Many demonolaters consider all spirits including Gods to be “Spirits”; the distinction is not important and doesn’t have any real meaning. It’s rare to hear of demons in religions or spiritualities that do not have a dualistic philosophy, you don’t hear about Hindu demons often for example. And the word “demon” in English comes from the Greek “daimon” actually referred to any spirit or divine being. Pinpointing what is and isn’t demon, daemon or spirit is a matter of perspective.

The idea that you can only work with demons that have Hebrew names if you are a Jew is one that literally doesn’t make grammatical sense.

If you are a practicing Jew or hold an Abrahamic theology, to worship or revere any demon would be a violation of your theistic laws. It’s a sin, a big one. Every deity, spirit, God/Goddess from every other religion or belief is a demon to you because you believe there is only one true God. That means Norse, Greek, Egyptian, etc. deities are also considered to be demons.

Because of this theology, every time that people of Abrahamic religions (Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims) encountered pagans who worshipped other Gods, they were demonized. Aphrodite/ Astarte became Astaroth, Phosphorus became Lucifer who then became Satan, Cerberus became Naberius, and so on and so on.

It’s incredibly important to remember that just because a name is written in a certain language, Hebrew for example, that does not directly imply that the deity is closed to the religion of Judaism. Not all people who spoke Hebrew were Isrealites, and not every spirit that was described by them was closed to them. Lilith for example was a deity/spirit that was recognized by multiple groups of people before the Israelites existed as a definitive and monotheistic group. Lilith was described by the Sumerians for example, her strongest surviving name and archetype is that which was described by the Jews because the Jews themselves survived and the Sumerians did not.

Most demonic names you will encounter will either be written in Latin, English, or Hebrew, not because these demons are closed to those cultures but because their documentation was only ever really considered legitimate when it was done by the followers of Yahweh. This is one of the major effects of colonization in general. If I as a Phoenician pagan say that Astarte is kind and beautiful, that doesn’t matter to any Roman Catholic. If I as a Catholic say that Astaroth is a perverted demoness who tricks men into demonic sex, the church might actually listen and write that down. Us 1000 years in the future may look at that name and assume Astaroth is a Roman demon and not a Phonecian Goddess who was described by Roman people and documented in Latin.

We speak English, so the demons that are accessible to us are usually recorded from the Abrahamic religions that speak English- Christianity. Our demons are not cosmologically “Christian” nor necessarily have anything to do with the Christian God specifically (Lucifer is a Roman deity and would have had no biblical interactions or connection with YHWH according to their origins). But Christians gave them names and we use those names for the sake of consistency and to reduce confusion across languages. Many times, the original names have been lost and the infernal aspect and name is all that remains. It is the life’s work of many Demonolaters to restore their deitie’s cult to its glory, to discover these dead names or to ensure that the surviving name… survives.

There are a select few demons who’s names originate in the Jewish tradition, Azazel for example, was the scapegoat of the Isrealites who then went on to command the Watchers who became the fathers of the Nephilim. But these demons aren’t necessarily considered to be closed to Judaism- again, because no Jew is ever going to reach out to a demon before the big GOD himself. There is no theological reason why Azazel would only recognize Jewish or Christian people. If you acknowledge Azazel as the scapegoat and use that name, you are referencing his archetype as it was described by the Isrealites. Likewise if you use the name Lilith and consider her to be Adam’s first wife, you are also using her archetype as she was described by the Jews. But that doesn’t mean that Lilith herself is considered to be a sacred figure within the religion of Judaism any more than Aphrodite is. They’re all demons. There is only one God.

There’s a stronger argument to be made for the big three Jewish angels - Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael, being closed to the Jewish religion because they literally are the angels patroned to the people of Israel and they are majority involved in the actual worship of their God- although I don’t really consider them to be closed either because, according to their theology, they would protect any human being created by God (which would be everyone).

The thing that you actually need to consider is if the deity is:

1. Culturally tied specifically and only to the people inside that closed religion- Demons were said to fuck with everyone, all of humanity, not just Jews. The Wendigo was a culturally significant creature that specifically targeted the Indigenous peoples of Turtle Island.

2. Intrinsic to the actual act of worship/ practicing itself- No practicing Jew incorporates Lilith or any demon into their prayers in the way they might with Archangel Michael.

3. Conceived of by the culture itself- Lilith is far older than Judaism and they do not claim to have conceived of her, whereas Michael was literally created by the Isrealites and was always said to act in the best interest of Israel as a nation.

4. Is revered and considered sacred- If I call Lilith or Belial nasty little whores, no jew is going to flinch, they probably agree. If I even speak the name of their God which is considered to be so sacred that it should not even be said in prayer, that’s insanely offensive. If I use the Tetragrammaton or wear it frivolously, someone is going to call me out.

Many western occultists have certainly appropriated sacred things from other cultures, ESPECIALLY from Judaism. Rather than admit their clear inspiration they bastardized the names and essentially stole incredibly important spiritual concepts (Qabalah). As much value is there is in the Qliphothic tradition it is also majorly appropriated from Jewish mysticism which is supposed to be knowledge closed to specific Rabbis. That’s why I’m not the biggest fan of people like Aliester Crowley.

This doesn’t mean to say that you can’t learn about anything Jewish, or Indigenous or Muslim etc. I try my best to always learn from people who are actually of the faith and not asshats who try to take the culture out of the practice. Some things genuinely are sacred and should not be appropriated, I don’t think that demons in general are one of those things.

It’s also important to remember that practices and deities aren’t always synonymous.

The Loa sprits of Voodoo religions are closed because they are ancestral spirits specific to the people in that culture. I can’t invoke my Haitian friend’s great great great grandmother and expect her to do my bidding. I can’t invoke the ancestral spirits of the Indigenous peoples of America and expect it to recognize me. I can’t even pronounce those names.

Hoodoo being closed to the black community is due to Hoodoo being not only a practice,but a survival mechanism of the black slaves who were imported into America during the slave trade. It was the blending of African spirituality with the assimilated Christianity of their masters. But theologically, most black people who practice Hoodoo have a predominantly Abrahamic faith, with belief in the Bible (although usually an alternate version) and belief in the one true God. You cannot practice the act of Hoodoo if you do not have the context of your experience as black person and the unique familial/ancestral relationships and knowledge they possess.

Likewise, you cannot practice Native American spirituality, or smudge with white sage because you do not have any experience or context living as an aboriginal in this land. Due to … yknow, colonization and genocide, most aboriginal tribes have opted to keep their practices extremely closed and sacred. I couldn’t even do it if I wanted to because I don’t even know where to start, I would have to be taught by the people they have elected to know this sacred practice.

You cannot be a practicing Jew if you are not initiated into the religion. Working with these fringe spirits is not nearly the same as appropriating the closed Jewish practice. What I and other demonolaters do is not even remotely close.

Demonolatry is not organized, it’s a self actualizing practice. Sure we have priests and priestesses, but we usually operate in cults.

I don’t know how to explain the irony in this take because if demonolaters and outcasts don’t work with and worship these spirits … literally no one will. The left hand path is crooked for a reason, alternative subcultures are alternative for a reason. The cults of Phosphorus and Lilith have never been as big as they are now. For these fringe deities to have survived so long and somehow even entered the mainstream is honestly incredibly impressive lol.

People who are unconcerned with being outcasted from Abrahamic theology aren’t going to stop practicing with their demons because religious people think it’s bad. I’m already practicing witchcraft. I already don’t believe in monotheistic theology, and there’s an entire rainbow of other things I do that are unacceptable to Judaism, Christianity and so on. The thing I care about is not disrespecting the actual culture and the things that are truly important to them.

You won’t really catch me wearing crosses, referencing Catholic practices, or talking about my practice in reference or opposite to Christianity or Judaism. I don’t defile Jewish or Christian traditions or bastardize their teachings. My practice is not the invert of their doctrine. It’s a completely separate and individual practice and philosophy.

This is LONGER THAN I MEANT IT TO BE

TLDR: No, demonolatry is not antisemitic.

It can be antisemitic if you happen to be antisemitic and many antisemitic people have historically ruined the fun for the rest of us (thanks Crowley)

But no, practicing Demonolatry does not make you racist. Being a pagan also doesn’t mean you hate religion.

[critter-wizard]

ep 43 had me tearing up in a fucking shopping centre ‼️‼️

b+w alt version that I truly couldn't decide if I liked it more . Also I included a lot of thoughts in the tags but they're somewhat incoherent<3

[unproduciblesmackdown]

winston my quant of billions

[sotangledupinit]

i’m obsessed your honor

[antspaul]

#this is all extremely true#but also treating different preferences as dangerous conflict#or demanding moral justifications for those preferences#or treating different interpretations as moral failings#are equally if not more obnoxious in the context of fictional characters#like the problem is not that there's a difference between sports fandom and other fandoms#it's people applying moral frameworks as a cudgel in fandom arguments in order to feel superior about their own preferences#and that is definitely not any LESS dumb when it happens in discussions of steven universe or whatever than it does in discussions of f1 lo

i agree with this basically, that this is a really insidious, frustrating, and quite prevalent element within most fandom. probably a lot of what i read as inexperience in sports fandom boils down to that sort of needless moralization in fandom spaces. i think that the people engaging in this sort of behavior are probably engaging the exact same way with traditional fiction fandom - i just also think that even a surface-level engagement with traditional partisan sports spaces does a lot to highlight how silly it is to act like this, more so than in typical fiction fandom argument (in which things like authorial intent tend to play a major role in discourse).

i should have phrased my original post better - but to be clear, i see regular fandom preferences and difference in opinion as separate from the partisan fandom of sports.

to me sports fandom is different than traditional fiction fandom. in sports fandom, partisanship is not a byproduct of natural human difference in preference and opinion, it's literally built into the way the average sports fan engages with the thing that they're a fan of.

if someone is a fan of one team, chances are they hold active dislike for other teams/athletes. there's one athlete i hate because he kind of underperformed for my team for a while and then left for a rival team. my dislike of this athlete is quite literally not any deeper than the fact that i arbitrarily chose one team to support and he no longer plays for that team and so i hope he misses every penalty he ever takes. (actually now that i think about it there are two athletes at the same club who i feel this way about). i don't think these athletes are evil because of that. i just don't want them to succeed. because i don't support their team.

to quote an important text:

i struggle to think of a traditional fandom of a non-sporting/non-competitive event that would have this sort of partisanship baked-in in the same way.

my original post wasn't really about people trying to strong-arm a moral justification from someone about their team/driver allegiance - it was in response to an f1 blogger who has stated that they have a very specific, singular driver preference and gets daily anons from people who don't seem to grasp how someone can have one athlete/team to root for. to me it felt very silly because that sort of narrow focus in a sport is, like, really typical in most sporting fandom spaces??? if not the way a majority of sports fans engage with sport?? a lot of sports fans don't even interact with people who support teams aside from theirs in sport-focused spaces online much less root for other teams.

that sort of attitude, to ME, is super revealing that a lot of people here don't actually treat f1 as a sport. as i said before it's fine to be mostly interested in the rpf side of things - but i think it becomes frustrating/disruptive when they project that onto f1 bloggers who do actively partake in the partisan side of f1 fandom.

when people say that it’s obvious that a lot of f1blr have never followed a sport before, they’re not saying that it’s a BAD thing to have an entry point into sports fandom. like, it’s tumblr, a lot of people belong to communities that are marginalized in traditional sports spaces. everyone has to start somewhere. it’s also okay to mostly engage with the sport through the lens of traditional tumblr fandom. like, that’s mostly how i use this particular platform. who cares.

what is grating to ME is when people don’t see a difference between sports fandom and traditional tumblr fandom, and start treating different team/driver preferences as dangerous conflict. or start demanding moral justifications for those preferences. or treat preferences/interpretations different than their own as moral failings and not pretty basic natural outgrowths of sports fandom spaces.

that sort of behavior just demonstrates to me that the person hasn’t interacted at all with sports fandom spaces other than tumblr. sports are essentially about arbitrary conflict and tribalism yknow? nothing dangerous about that.

[egberts]

i no longer argue with people on facebook. it wasn't good for my mental health at all. instead i just drop my morally superior take and then laugh react when people try to argue and they get. so. mad.

[tr1ppykay]

I hope you know that there’s always a place that you’ll be welcome, even if you’re thrown away from other places due to your identity.

You’re a bi genderfluid man, and anyone that tries to change that (other than you) or take the piss out of your identity can try to parry the crowd of bees I just guided towards them

hi thanks, this means a lot. logically i do know that there are queer spaces welcoming to me, its just that *finding* them is a complicated issue. i tend to socially isolate because of trauma- growing up, my ADHD symptoms were mocked by both my peers AND authority figures in my life- i was severely bullied by other kids for being weird, and my parents/teachers regularly treated me as an annoyance/burden/mistake. I default to assuming that everyone always wants me to leave because of this. so when i try to meet other queer people like me irl, and the handful of assholes decide to tell me I should leave because "women" who like men or "women" who decide to become men aren't welcome, it reinforces those thoughts and sours the whole experience. its equally a me-problem and a problem of how people like me are perceived in queer spaces. if had no trauma, I would be able to shrug the assholes off. but then again, if there were no exclusionary assholes, people with similar trauma to mine would be more welcome- and i don't think queer people should have to fully heal from trauma to feel safe in their own community.

my experiences with ableism, antimasculism, and SGA-superiority all come together to create the perfect cocktail that leads to most queer spaces excluding me. I think my anecdotes speak to this specific intersection between my identities as a neurodivergent bisexual transmasc.

[blujayonthewing]

you would think that 'elyss being mad at belial doesn't mean that I, jay, am mad at stephen in real life' would be immediately and unavoidably obvious considering how belial was transparently my favorite character in that campaign (other than my own) even though elyss was mad at him like 60% of the time

[dani-luminae]

Ripping off EAH is a bad idea. The makers WILL sue!!

Bold of you to assume that Mattel cares about the franchise they gave up on. It's not even a candidate for rebooting like Monster High.

Also can we stop acting like EAH was some treasured passion project of a struggling indie developer or something? It's owned by Mattel! The company that just put out the Barbie movie! The company literally could not be doing better.

Besides. “Daughter of the Queen of Hearts” and “daughter of Cinderella” aren’t copyrighted by Mattel (in fact, Darling Charming isn’t the daughter of Cinderella! The EAH Charming family specifically has no relation to Cinderella.) There’s enough established in Descendants to argue that all similarities are just coincidence. Sporty girls with swords? Done before (see: Lonnie in the second movie.) Besides, Lizzie and Darling never actually had an adventure together I think...

There's also that Ever After High isn’t the only “school for children of fairy tales” there is. There's The School for Good and Evil (a six-book series likely more well-known for an astoundingly subpar Netflix adaptation) and Regal Academy, among others. EAH vs. Descendants aside, no company *owns* the idea of “school for fairy-tale/public-domain characters kids.”

Which, yes, literally all the parents of EAH are public domain. Disney had the opportunity for using Disney trademark names like Maleficent, Lady Tremaine, etc. but their character bases are still public domain (Sleeping Beauty’s 13th fairy and Cinderella’s stepmother, respectively.) Descendants also gets to involve some Disney-specific tales like 101 Dalmatians. But EAH also got to pull in some tales that Disney never covered, like Jack and the Beanstalk (...whatever happened to that Gigantic movie?), Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and Thumbelina.

Also if you expect me to believe that some EAH designs weren’t Disney ripoffs to begin with, no. Because look at this:

This is original concept art for Rosabella Beauty, daughter of Beauty and the Beast! But wanna see what she looks like in the actual cartoon?

Oh would you look at that!!! I wonder why they gave her brown hair suddenly but so clearly wanted to keep the yellow scheme! Couldn't possibly be because they wanted people to think of Disney's Belle, right?????

And also:

Purple? Check. High collar? Check. Menacing accessories? Check. Significant widow's peak with spiky crown? Double check. Also Raven's actual mother in the series looks like this:

And not actually, you know, like Raven.

EAH was also relying on a healthy handful of Disney ripoff designs to get their characters noticed. It shows. Not to mention the entirety of Epic Winter clearly banking on the Frozen craze because it didn't even get "The Snow Queen" story right.

(And sure, Descendants featured some designs that were a little bit too close to EAH, see: Mal's purple Cotillion gown vs. Raven's Thronecoming gown, evil!Audrey's entire color scheme compared to Spring Unsprung Briar, etc.)

Doesn't mean that mocking it is a classy move on Disney's part, but unless they're stupid enough to straight-up use a patented name from EAH, I highly doubt Mattel can or will do anything about it.

[m0thlegs]

y’all learned the term “media literacy” and have not shut the fuck up since

[calypsoul]

Elle would be so concerned when a ton of clone troopers show up with various physical and mental injuries while insisting they're fine, like, Why does this universe have so many clones of the same guy, and why do they all need therapy??? What the hell is going on???

And then she finds out this is only like, half of them, maybe less and she is once again Seriously Concerned™

Got another dc x dp writing prompt blurb thing for yall (this time featuring TimKon)

Elle declaring herself Queen of the Clones as a joke because Danny is the Ghost King and she should get a fun title too and accidentally making herself effectively the god of clones across all dimensions as a result.

Elle being suddenly aware of all the clones in existence in a vague way, but able to "tune in" on specific ones, or suddenly becoming aware when a clone is in serious trouble.

Elle deciding, fuck it, she's gonna take care of all the clones that need taking care of, turning her haunt in the Ghost Zone into a place of safety, using her new abilities as God Queen of Clones to make it so whenever any of them need help they get pulled to her Haunt instantly.

Connor getting mortally wounded in a fight, saving the day but getting buried in rubble away from where anyone would be able to dig him out in time to save him and suddenly being Somewhere Else.

Connor getting saved by Elle and the yetis, but having amnesia from the severe headroom (he can't remember anything except maybe the face of a boy his age, dark circles under sharp blue eyes, a wry smile, the understanding that Connor was in love with whoever the boy is or was).

Elle not being able to tell where Connor is from, her Haunt just pulls clones in trouble in when they need her help, there's no sending address or anything like that. And he was in such bad shape its not like she trusts that sending him back to where ever he's from is even safe to do.

Connor being one of the permanent residents of Elle's haunt (she always tries to find the clones that end up there a place of their own, getting Clockwork to de-age them and a good family to love them for those that want that, a spot in Amity where clones don't even register as anything weird, or just back to where they came from but now with the promise of somewhere to call home and a new family of clones to care for them) and ends up with the title of her knight or champion or something along the way, looking after everyone when Elle is off traveling and generally being vice-president of Clone Club

Elle getting captured by the GIW while out seeing the world, unable to escape but at least able to alert her family that she's in trouble.

Danny and the Pham not being able to break in because of all the upped security keeping away anything ghostly or ghost adjacent

Connor and a group of the clone club rallying to get Elle out themselves, breaking in and releasing as many ghosts as they can and destroying as much as they can and oops the Justice League has shown up

Connor not having powers in the Ghost Zone and being very freaked out when he punched Superman in the face and sent him flying a hundred yards, surprising the Clone Club with his super strength and surprising the League with his surprise about his super strength and frantic apologies to Superman for yeeting him across an open field (up to this point they assumed this was another evil clone situation Lex cooked up but now aren't so sure).

The GIW ends up closing in to attack the clones who just got Elle back and need to make a break for it before the portal back closes while that's happening and Connor decides to be self-sacrificing and give them cover, so they can escape.

Connor surrendering to the Justice League before the GIW can grab him once everyone else is free and clear, because he knows Elle and the other Clones will break him out and that's gonna be a lot easier if he's not in GIW custody

Tim and the Young Justice gang losing their God damn minds because that's Connor?? Maybe?? He doesn't remember them or the Justice League or Superman or anything but it has to be him right? They never found his body, Tim had been so sure he was still out there alive somehow - had lost weeks and months to maddening grief, desperately searching for some sign that Connor was out there somewhere - and now here he is!

Connor refusing to talk to the JL, low key trying to figure out if they actually do know who he is or if it's a trick - the Pham's stories of what they've all had to deal with and his own recent raid on the GIW has left him with a healthy suspicion of anything government related and the JL may not be with the GIW but they sure as hell are still government goons as far as he's concerned.

The main league being worried that it's mind control or a clone scheme or something like that and not really being sure what to do. There's too many questions about what happened to him, where he's been, what he was doing in that raid on that government facility - there's questions too on just what kind of facility that was, and a new case has already been opened on that whole can of worms - and Connor (if it is Connor) isn't answer their questions.

So they put him in a cell with some Kryptonite to make sure his powers are suppressed - half out of concern that him surrendering to them is a scheme, half terrified that if he really doesn't know he has powers anymore that he'll accidentally destroy the Watchtower with a sneeze. They make sure it's comfortable, he did apologize about punching Superman in the face - a lot, actually, it was pretty much the only thing he had said the entire time, along with very concerned questions on if the Man of Steel was okay - and while there's something strange going on, if it's mind control then they'd rather Connor come back to himself somewhere decent.

And no one is supposed to talk to him alone, or outside of a formal interrogation or without Wonder Woman there in case Connor gets hostile - even with the Kryptonite, they can't be too careful - but that's not going to stop Tim. His best friend is alive, there isn't a power in the universe that's going to keep him away.

Connor doesn't recognize him. Except that he does. It's weird, because his only memory has been the face of that boy, but there's also just something so familiar about Red Robin and it's the first familiar thing he's known since waking up in the Far Frozen over a year ago.

For awhile it's just Tim talking, trying to get Connor to remember, trying to do anything he can to prove (to everyone, to himself) that this really is Connor. And after over an hour he's nowhere near ready to give up, but he is maybe ready to go and have a breakdown in a supply closet for a bit, when Connor finally starts talking back.

He doesn't say much - he's suspicious, even as he becomes more and more sure that Red Robin is someone to him - but he does start talking and, it's nice. Familiar.

And just as he's considering actually telling Red Robin something - everything, really, Connor's always been a sucker for a cute boy that looked one more cup of coffee away from a psychotic break - the cavalry arrives. Ghosts everywhere, causing a distraction and looking for Connor and maybe just having a little fun fucking around for a bit while they're at it.

(Constantine is trying to sneak off to smoke somewhere he won't end up getting lectured like he's a disobedient school boy, opening a door to come face to spectral bellybutton with Fright Knight. He decides maybe Bats is right and he should quite smoking as he - fruitlessly - closes the door again without a word.)

Wulf is ready with a portal and Technus is in control of the station and the cell door opens just as Lunch Box appears to phase the cuffs off Connor (and maybe steal some of that delicious rock candy that was in those cuffs for some reason, her parents won't let her have any back at home and she's helping the royal family get one of their loyal knights back, she deserves a little treat) and it's time to go.

Tim's ready to throw down, terrified that whatever the hell these things are they're going to take Connor away again, but just as he's working out a plan on just how he's going to fight something that can walk through walls, disappear and fly (and eat fucking Kryptonite), he suddenly finds himself being thrown over Connor's shoulder and being carried through a terrifying rip in space and time to another dimension.

Conner can admit, as he lands back in Elle's haunt with all the ghosts streaming in behind him as the portal closes and the Clone Club rushing forward to check on him and Red Robin still slung over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes (a cute sake of potatoes, though) he might not have thought this one through.

Kidnapped by his amnesiac and possibly mind controlled best friend and dragged to hell(?) aside, Tim's just happy Conner brought him with him this time. Batman and the rest of the League, still reeling from what just happened, are not nearly as happy with that fact.

[ebitenpura]

everyday I experience whimsy thinking about how Eight went from the perception of a diabolical mysterious mastermind to (• ̫ •) in the span of a few years. imperial dissolution turns the hardest operatives into the fluffiest companions

[paimonial-rage]

Genshin Impact Typology

My take on various Genshin Impact characters' mbti, enneagram, and instinctual variants. Please note that this is based upon Jungian (cognitive function) mbti, not Dichotomous mbti (if you do not know, please look it up), so if you disagree, please disagree based upon Jungian terminology. If you would like me to give reasons for any characters, please let me know.

You'll notice some types have question marks by them. They indicate the degree of my confidence in those typings. The more question marks, the less confident I am. The types in parentheses indicate other possibilities they could be. The "x" in mbti types indicates that I am unsure of which letter they are (i.e. IxFJ means they can either be an ISFJ or an INFJ). A lack of question marks or parentheses indicates that I am more or less confident in my typing.

Mondstadt

Albedo - 5w6 IxFJ sp/so

Diluc - 1w9 ISTJ(ISFP?) sp/??

Kaeya - 7w8(4w3?) ExTP sx/??

Venti - 2w3? ENFJ? so/sx

Liyue

Beidou - 7w8 ESFP sx/so?

Chongyun - 9w1 ISxJ sp/so

Ningguang - 3w4?? INTJ? sp/??

Xiao - 9w8(4w5?) ISFP sp/sx

Xingqiu - 4w3 ENFP? sx/so

Zhongli - 1w9 ISTJ sp/so

Inazuma

Arataki Itto - 3w2 ExFP so/sx

Gorou - 1w2 xSFP so/sx

Kaedehara Kazuha - 9w1 ISFJ sp/so

Kamisato Ayaka - 9w1 ISFJ sp/so

Kamisato Ayato - 3w4?? ENxJ sx/sp?(sp/sx?)

Kujou Sara - 1w9 ISTJ sp/sx?

Kuki Shinobu - 5w6 ISTJ?? sp/so

Shikanoin Heizou - 7w6 ExTP so/sx

Thoma - 2w1(9w1) ENFJ so/sx

Yae Miko - 7w8 ESxP(ENxJ?) sx/sp

Schneznaya

Childe - 7w8 ESxP sx/so

Sumeru

Alhaitham - 9w8 ISTP sp/sx

Cyno - 1w9 ISTJ? so/sp

Kaveh - 2w1 ENFP sx/so

Nilou - 9w1 ISFP so/sx

Tighnari - 5w6 INTP sx/sp

Wanderer - 4w3 INFP??? sp/sx

Fontaine

Lyney - 6w7(3w?) ExFP so/sx

Neuvillette - 1w9 ISTJ sp/so

Wriothesley - 9w8 ESTP sp/so

[mattzerella-sticks]

The idea of 'The Sovereign' and this storyline in Wonder Woman by Tom King reminds me of Hydra Captain America and the Secret Empire by Nick Spencer.

[unproduciblesmackdown]

still rotating lsoh in that way of like well it's fun it works well enough where like you know at every turn whatever's happening is supported by Some element coming through as the strength of such material & like the basis of like, you can forget [jrr tolkien voice] the Applicability of the plant when the foundation underneath that is "plant that eats people. would that be fucked up or what" like does it have to be human (i guess) does it have to be mine (i guess not) the answer is if a plant ate people would that be fucked up or what?

the great nexus provided where it's like of course the one "correct" interpretation of The Story here doesn't exist & neither does "here's the way to Present an experience that will be perfect & perfectly interpreted by everyone ever" but it's also Rich Text time enough to have a great time analyzing the workings & results & musing on re- or deconstructions forever. as a "never seen a stage version, only seen the theatrical release movie" i'm like yeah i would blow this whole building up Myself if they die noooo :( no you can't do that and i think it's great that like the full situation is us all having such Multiple versions and that when it's a movie everyone is like well you can't do that. the theory about the difference in medium between stage production & movie for an audience experience, i definitely buy that as a factor. i'm not gonna resolve this in this text post lmao like i'm going "i mean the theatrical ending Also Works, which feels conclusive in its own right, & the issue to me seems like, you know, they're simultaneously standing in for Any/Everyone but just like Any/Everyone they're actually specific people still. if they're not sympathetic then it could be seen as diminishing [don't feed the plants] to [don't do whatever makes them less sympathetic] like rip to your employee but i'm different, i would have done the perfect blood bank heist every other day & done the perfect marketing & then done the perfect plant killing move after doing the perfect planning to know i'd definitely been set for life & making the perfect decision to not let it go on another day & how about another etc"....that no matter how sympathetic you are (and you are, i'd blow this whole building up) don't feed the plants then huh

but. it's a story. we can have different versions and that that's the case even within the [same book] Stage situation, within that no two performances of the same production are The Same, that people sitting in different seats at the same show will have different experiences, notice / focus on different details, have different interpretations because they're different people....i can assume if i'd seen a stage version first i'd go "oh interesting" at the happier ending in the film rather than be like no Noooo the other way around lmfao. again that like, you still get the message. uh oh audrey could've died. uh oh seymour could('ve) die(d) & this plant is malicious & never gonna stop & very hard to kill, we can extrapolate. uh oh is the danger present for anyone? for you? we get it either way so i can't reluctantly give it up lmao. like i get "uh oh the plant even ate them, and You" actually acted out sure can be seen as having more emphasis & clarity. But like also never any absolutes like oh if they live it diminishes that, Maybe in some interpretations, maybe as a matter of preference....but, again, the Tradeoffs coming through. we lose like that emphasis for the rewards of Character. no Metaphor of the plants is ever really gonna shake out, but the tradeoff is always "would that be fucked up or what" and scifi fun.

like, pacing, also just like as ever can't even really declare One Thing for all, for ever, that makes a work a Tragedy, much less the Definitively Successful one or anything. is it tragedy because of tone. because people died. because anything bad enough happened that wasn't undone. because it was "serious" in tone And being "about" something someone deems worth expression / exploration. but always shakespeare problem plays and where does greek tragedy come from & what did it mean & that obviously comedy isn't like there's no consequences, no "substance" or "seriousness" or whatever other supposed metric of Worth by whomever gets to judge that. comedy requiring a level of questioning / analyzing Everything (technically it doesn't, if you do like "comedy is when Some people / things are laughable" which idc about that. Encompassing context / framework or else) and in that there's more room for things that otherwise might be presented as that matter of "tone" defining whether something is "serious." like there's Nothing Unrealistic about from the start it just being matter of fact everyday stuff that audrey's getting beat up but that doesn't make it not "serious" unless the world ground to a halt & everyone else around her fell to their knees. the most serious shit including indeed interpersonal abuse goes on all the time as everyday matter of fact stuff just like that, world still turning, nobody falling to their knees or else it's not that big a deal. again like suppertime sequence is just really ominous lmao like yeah it Would be fucked up if a giant sentient plant ate a person. the horrors of being matter in flux are endless but like "isn't this fucked up" gore or whatever is really never the kind of Vision Of Violence that comes across as half as unpleasantly disturbing as the shit that happens quickly and without much detailed fanfare in my experience/opinion, & this is a bit like that. just spending some time in suspense knowing this plant is gonna eat a guy and then it does, yikes. likewise saying it's memorable like he sure does look like plant food to me, just a what like whole ten second sequence of silhouetted abuse that is perfectly harrowing because we experience audrey's harrowment.

going on a tangent But Not Really and i welcome it, whaddaya gonna do. it's still also more about "these are characters in a story and not Real People but art imitating life style we think of them in the framework as though they're real people. they could be anyone and so could real people, but also, just as with real people, they are specific people" but that like also We're The Audience. we don't have to imagine any particular character or their experiences / pov as "what if this one was me / vice versa" but we also never have to Be these characters b/c we not only Aren't, but they exist to us only As Presented, unlike real people, who exist outside our observation, awareness, assessment. like, real violence happening that isn't only made real by someone outside it standing there Observing, much less necessarily realizing what's going on, nor following it around as it affects someone day to day. the issue of like ""showing"" us in media that someone's been abused. if we see it In Process, it's Not That Bad unless it's supposedly "that bad" all at once, in say like, simply a scene, perhaps merely several, perhaps one episode or movie, etc: and in thusly being "convincing" to an Audience, the reaction can be like "well, obviously it's That Bad. so why would this person put up with it" and the idea that it's the victim's responsibility actually can be accepted, like, since it's so clearly Intolerable, beyond the pale, must be something wrong with Them for tolerating it, if only they'd get it together enough to stand up for themself once & for all. never mind that, yknow, who cares about that, would they deserve this anyways & gosh why is it never about focusing on the people treating them this way. anyways like its leading to "well, couldn't be me" washing your hands of it as you wanted to do anyways. handy if you're presented with Whatever like "oh it's not even that bad anyways" too of course. all versus like, forget what seems "intolerable" like how about "can you escape it. what do you risk happening to you if you try." like people's reactions to Real images of like, someone taking a casual everyday pic of a living situation & it's got a lack of polish that's just like, ordinary Being Poor type of deal. mentioning any detail that's pretty ordinarily a part of that, no matter how they feel about it, and then the way people can have a big reaction like it's perhaps absurd to them in a way inspiring shock, perplexment, rejection/disdain. vs like supposed "oh no, being poor" living situations In Media like, it's either presented as Shocking, the realm of the [omg couldn't be me] consummate Other, or hey, just Not That Bad (i.e. not particularly realistic, just like....maybe shown as less spacious & Interior Designed into relatively sparse detail) like nice just something to vicariously go "how Great (perhaps Of Me, in surely innately being this person who Could Never. i'd never put up with that) that that's so Not Me" like okay, dead end. what if it's not some inviolately Other lower class of inferior Not As Much Of A Person As You people who don't know better or have better taste or better self respect or better moxie or etcccc. then it would ask you not to dehumanize and also it wouldn't end in the realm of Individual Choice as the ultimate / only truly relevant context for "when abuse happens is that fucked up or what"

anyways we can bring it all back to lsoh specifically like it's great they're not like "hope to god nobody's Relating to like, orin, say" like it's not presenting us like well even before you start feeding plants, just don't be jerks, for one. hard to go "rip to your granpa but i'm different" about the applicability focus if we don't go "it'd never apply to Me or otherwise just like, generally" b/c they're up to unsympathetic business. which, also, sidebar, of course i'm not even going "wow, the lesson is Never Murder." like yeah let's kill orin even without the plant, oh well whatever at mr. mushnik lmfao. that also like a whole big thing i think is that lsoh has this clarity about everyone's Broader Situations existing in a context where their individual choices aren't enough to save them from Tragedy, or let them Escape whatever's already shit. like, uh oh, you're already fucked. you don't have family? family's not reliable social support, perhaps including not Not being detrimental / extractive / violent in its own right? well, guess you're fucked. seymour's stuck with this Parent and we see the [your child is your property] there, oh well for him i guess. audrey as A Woman is like well your escape is into being [your wife is your property] and what if he's terrible, oh well, just leave, and do what, and risking what violence to prevent that escape? rewarded with what when you don't have money? both of them having jobs that obviously aren't enough, we aren't presented like "if only they'd been Hardworking enough, or perhaps Savvy enough to be Smartworking" like that'd have Saved them. we Do get like, oh hey, We could be a social unit (i.e., married) lol and it's like well that's a) an option if you want to at all & the genders are deemed proper & b) like well alright lmfao seymour's your friend, great, like that again it doesn't even matter much if it occurred to them like lavender marriage, it's all for the Economic considerations. nor does this really upend the broader context like yeah whew their options are still Limited thusly. this relates right into like yeah get our rod serling Or Is It? ending with Move Into A House type happier ending, but it's also like, of Course there's still limits to what they could do then or at any point, and we'd kind of have to "break out" to have it be anything But some version of like, "yeah nice now we can afford to not live on the street, definitely." which we can do, feasibly lol, just in a way that i think would be less readily conveyed as "okay they'll be fine enough now, we prommy, probably, or will they???" so [yep, that's a Conclusion] for the purposes of a film

when like it goes back to the Inciting Incident, like, well, what are seymour or audrey gonna do out here otherwise? they're in this context where we understand their only escape is [have money] and they're doing that how they can, with jobs, and a guy who'll let them live inside shelter. from this point like i guess they can become revolutionaries but there wouldn't be a "if there was a big plant that talks and eats people would that be fucked up or what" plotline. they can't even go "hey, what if We got married! we could both live somewhere with a roof & walls & not be awful to each other" without more money, probably, and probably without still killing orin (i think this is a great what if lmao. no plant, yes murder). and like then there's consumerism like you have to be told that everything wrong with your life and everything that can possibly be right can be resolved through purchase, audrey ii is advertising for a business, and i mean, stays that [increasing demand, increasing sales] until it's like uhh. quick foray into "actually now there's this [As A Famous Person] interlude where the celebrity is themself not a person but a Product, and in this case likewise now kind of framed as potential advertising for Other products as audrey ii remains for the flower shop until the Cuttings As Product twist" and like even at that point it's like, metaphorically [wow audrey ii is a product] doesn't exactly hold up, [audrey ii is consumerism] is Right There like literal consumption for one lmao and i hardly think like "oh it's not a perfect fit? throw it out" applies here when No metaphor is that, and again like, we do have literal consumerism, audrey framing her ideal life as available for sale to her via magazines, clear [hm, socioeconomics] framing like hm they sure Do just need money or they're fucked, this plant keeps trying to fuck them, illustration of a shift of contextual power from sexual solicitation to aggression (but it was aggressive the whole time also just as it was also the whole time a threateningly giant sentient plant demanding human flesh)

anyways also consumerism like [increasing consumption of goods is always desirable] relevant like ah Infinite Growth you say? that you can go "it's like 'why would vampires want more vampires when that's a dead end lol of someone who stops producing blood' / 'vampires would just run out of humans'" but when it's also like, well haha, irl Application style, wow why would people adopt a practice of "uh oh lol, This isn't sustainable and there'll always be some crash. well not my problem" like yeah audrey ii & clones taking over the world Infinite Growth would hit a wall lmao but doesn't mean uh oh it's not Now breaking through the wall eating Me, in the audience....and you can see the application to like, any Relationship between anyone & anything that apparently requires Infinite Growth, only ever More, only ever a one way process of Extraction for unilateral benefit. and also it's always like, major overlap with the Consumerism but still also a bit different: audrey ii like Commodification. it's just a strange & interesting little venus flytrap, until it's indirectly commodified at least as Business Advertisement, making the other plants into successful commodities. (also shoutout to that one guy. i can see the theory now like he was a plant of the plants to make sure audrey ii would be valuable and nourished. wouldn't change anything at all like, sure, or no, it's Style and Humor, he's a stock Some Guy & it's comedy, nobody's """normal""", unquestioned unexamined "normality" doesn't exist here thank fuck.) but you know, it's like, oh you like botany? well you'd better figure out a way to get rich from that, right. oh you're a Woman, you'd better figure out how to Be the commodity to an extra degree beyond the wage laborer, All domestic work has to be done for free or as close to it as possible, vs paid a bit more for a "job" proper, with the precarities still increasing / decreasing according to different systems of creating classes.

(such as like, see "what about the vampires as like origins in what vulnerable Othered parties are seen as infiltrators that corrupt / kill?" and that class necessarily exists in the socioeconomic context of lsoh, we don't get suburbs without Selling them like "ugh you know the poorer not white and even black people in cities? what if you could access the cities without having to live amongst them, share any resources, as though Equals" and you can try some like libertarian white supremacist analysis like don't feed the plants? white man's burden and eugenics and it's white people struggling for Control that will keep black people out and not killing you and etc. naturally any metaphor falls apart, in what we see there's no particular separation of seymour &/or audrey as inherently other from those poorer than them (although like having poorer people's existence as a "this could be you" ""threat"" requires emphasizing the perspective that, for now, you are Not them) and they're not posited as threatened by proximity / mutual access / equivalency to nonwhite / black people around them, we can infer that Racism Time as an interpretation is not Intended lol but analysis never has to end with inferred or expressed intent, and little concepts like Classes of race, gender, owner vs property, etc aren't Neutral where they're relevant, such as in not just a story set in any twentieth century US city, but Any story say, produced From a perspective that invokes that as Known, any story experienced where we as audience Know of these contexts. all the "normality" of every ideology alleging someone in a group you are impermeably separated from has to stay Other in their systemic subjugation or else everything you have (your elevated status in this very context) will be destroyed, everyone being taught said ideologies, it's not simply "normal" unless & until someone does intentionally explicitly invoke "it's racism time" & racism all over the place, ah, a simple Fiction, unless someone is a woman without explaining why, perhaps openly queer, disabled, nonchristian, nonwhite? why'd you have to make it political. we can just Say like, i suppose this extraterrestrial plant is doing some colonialism. easy. indeed it is some Other, here for infinite growth, eating people like would that be fucked up or what, voiced by a black man, watch this maneuver: even disabled in the context of being effectively a person once introduced as such. everything we can consider when presented with an invading incontrovertible malicious Other, which is Much. rich texts, hooray

but back to the commodification point. you love botany, how can you monetize it? so that it can save you, by way of money, b/c how else can you be saved? also makes me think of [audrey ii as some form of what would be considered Art]. that for art to bring the theoretical Individual Creator Artist Responsible power in the form of money &/or status, for it to be thusly vauable art, the artist has to draw (as in, extract) from their life, from Themself, put themself into it, literally in this case. then potentially have to turn to what access they have to Other people as sources of what made that Successful. but uh oh how do you keep that going forever, when you only have access to so much, when the success / exposure / demand changes everything that made it possible to quietly feed some blood to a weird little plant in a basement in the first place, much less has the Life Of Its Own and is too big for one person / escapes containment in that way. not to say in the least like ah indeed i believe in True Art(tm) and the status of true Artist(tm) or some extrapolation like wow uhh you start with a Woman as your Muse & have a cute little plant & give it a Little blood of course, that's fine, just stop there i guess or you might end up with Mass Media and that's awful....our culture and your kitcsh, our technique and your crafts, our "the 'ideal' (true) artist not worrying about making money off of it" vs "the uncouth impoverished that Does make 'art' for money (or entertainment, the Masses, any other randos, vs the true arbiters & appreciators as selected audience) and if they come up with anything good it was on accident really and we'll just be taking that thank you. ironically. for now" like i also don't think the metaphor goes oh so far here But. the idea that "good" art that'll be valued & bring money, status, Save You, has to have like your blood put into it, You and Your life, or start looking to other people around you whose lives overlap with yours also....could read further into it from that lens, but again really just like Commodification more generally, seymour's personal passion for botany that is thus far outside the flower shop but now he can finally make it be Useful in that it'll bring in money, gotta point to That same as audrey dreaming of products she can Own as concomitant with her ideal life as [pointing to Consumerism]. infinite growth, what if the pyramid scheme never stops, [the ride never ends I Want To Get Off Eternal Damnation post] etc etc

uh well anyways bring it WAY back around, i'm not agreeing to "tragedy is when you go Oh No" like well sometimes it's tragedy and i Don't lmao. sometimes i go Oh No and it's not tragedy. and of course there's no consensus like ah decisively both defined & bounded Genre, format, even medium. i can't relinquish like "b/c i'd go Oh No even harder if they died, i'm [dying ending only] now" lmao ofc i know no one demands picking one or certainly i wouldn't respect such demands nor comply. it's the power of "this is a story and it can be told different ways" like, we can Get the same points even when they don't. it's not like "oh, consumerism can go on forever just fine then" when a) we get a rod serling Or Can It? too anyways and b) we also know and always know these are, in theory, and Would Be in practice if we understand the context of [as if this was Real Life], specific people, not Everybody, now & forever. audrey ii is the pyramid scheme infinite growth inherently unilateral extraction violence consuming capitalism? like well we all feed the plants at all. we can't draw a line Anywhere, such as: when is the financial success too much? the Process of putting the personal into a product form too personally costly for you or anyone? back to like "no you can't control this, yes this will always corrupt & consume no matter who you are or your intentions and sympatheticness or whatever" like then the Metaphor / Applicability being universal, like, even You, aaah it's getting You in the audienceeee is like yep i get that Strength of that [everyone dies. You die] ending lmao. but the strength of They're Specific People [handshake] they live, you live, but still watch out, still, it's not over ending. like you know that other person in reality? that's you, extremely important, however it's also not you, just as extremely important. this tale of these specific people, like, their escape from situations including [interpersonal abuse, we don't need to See one big show of supposedly intolerable, outward suffering; whose life is constrained, who has the power, who can't escape], well they're fucked if they don't have money, so there's only so much [you Failed the cautionary tale so bad you gotta die] like, if they don't, if they only have So Much success and then wanna back out, and then realize like ohh right it's not gonna stop on its own & will also Worsen....like okay lol. how much Difference in "uh oh audrey could've been mortally wounded i guess, good thing she wasn't. Not Today" or "seymour's gotta try to kill it, so he does try. and he succeed. Today, In Fact" like yknow he could try to kill it from the inside and get eaten and we're like aaaa and Then the plant explodes b/c well, he did it, was willing to risk it after realizing the situation, same as we get in the happier theatrical ending. ("theatrical" having some ambiguity...musical theatre....i mean the film though lol)

like that it Can't be conclusive re: some theoretical perfect combination of intention, execution, interpretation. it Is this story. they Are [anyone] they Are [my specific friend seymour. i'll kill for him too] like it's more emphatic a Concept to have whatever worst case scenario, most permanent loss, vs that like, prefer the Practical instead: how much could they do? how much can you do? when it is also constrained by: they have to do the things that facilitate there being a giant talking alien plant that eats people and would that be fucked up or what? when like rather if there was no plant, i think a heist with these two zany besties where the heist is murdering orin and perhaps like ah sorry you do also know too much mr. mushnik is like, well you know that story could happen with these two characters and their personalities and be so much fun. audrey would walk in on that ax murder and start helping. the Medium Difference idk like yeah i'll help them kill whoever, i'll kill that plant, that it's also fiction and magic so of course we can't go "alas....isn't that always the way, it Has to be" like no he could blow it up. no he could kill it from the inside anyways. The Power Of Fiction, always gonna be living that "they both live or i blow the building up" life lol. while simultaneously like i even theoretically get it like no yeah of course they die, is someone else's primary Story ending. while this doesn't change my like No you can't kill them. when because it is a story and not something that actually happened and we're just able to be thinking about Meaning and Effects from something that only exists as a way of communicating an idea of Meaning and Effects like of course it's a multiple choice multiple answers deal, and having multiple versions spices that up

which also. that again like when it is not real life. difficult to pick something of more Impact / Significance than mortality, & Dying as [difficult to think of a more significant Mortality Moment], but like, again in juxtaposing art vs real life like Real death not happening Only to have "meaning" besides that uh oh everyone's mortal and someone just died, in fact. while we don't read meaning into things Only if someone dies for real, even when of course that tends to be interpreted as having import. art imitating life like, of course "don't do this. they did it and died" having impact that perhaps "don't do this. they survived though" doesn't, is gonna be an Interpretation. but there's of course never gonna be actual rules. like oh Always kill them in a cautionary tale. someone like "Wrong never have an actual other being in the cave horror. the cave is one's self, the scariest journey of all" like well i disagree. here we are where to get Us eaten by the plant we have the protagonists eaten by the plant, vs that they'd better not be, while it's not about us. separation from [that is a movie] vs [on stage in front of me? yes, i'm already a part of this] yeah sure maybe i dunno. being closer up? the plant can intrude on the audience like fall from the ceiling and change joe iconis's life but like, a Movie sequence of a plant outgrowing a city and world and even also implicitly fourth wall breaking like, that's not my business. the stakes weren't really raised there in an unbroken sequence from our heroes' demises playing Directly into a finale dropped in the audience's laps that way. i don't know. and what were they gonna do, am i right? i'll kill this vine. hang on besties....like you did make them my friends. we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts" and we can go "no don't kill them, because of the concepts, and also they're my friends," truly, while having grasped the [because of the concepts] either way

anyways, amidst the power of [there's no Conclusivity here. yaaay conclusivity as not even the Goal in the first place] whew like how much blood have i put into this one? none. but also addendums. i forgot to musically mention that somewhere that's green opening with that "i know seymour's the greatest...but i'm dating a semi...sadist..." like holy shit lmao superlative right there. addendum that take it way back to the beginning like "so they're fucked if they Don't successfully get more money. or end capitalism" like they go lihn mode. but who says they don't? in this story? already, they Do, the endings aren't that different even as of course it Is that different saying the pretend people's pretend actions in a pretend situation killed them, or didn't. happy ending Or Is It? it's a tuesday like haha oh come here look at this, shaking my head. killing the little plant and hitting the road, the airwaves, with [knife emoji We're Coming For You invasive plant (that eats people)] goals. anything could happen. and it's not that big a deal if they Then just did make money and happen to have more choice in their lives, like, that was the context all along lmao. and, again, if we just kill some mfs ordinary style. seymour as "aw jeez" about it but ya gotta do what you gotta do. which is relevant to like, i also hardly think like oh no it's about the slippery slope of murder. not even once. just say no. & your divine retribution will be eaten by plant, otherwise. he do kinda gotta do, sure, yeah, it's not very meaningful like "i think he could've talked it out & had orin see the light" nor "if i was seymour i would've ingeniously generated flower shop business in the wisest way, free of cost. economics" or otherwise rip but i'm different i would've gotten money in a non feed the plant way, i would've gotten complete control of my life without getting more money, ha ha....take the risk like well gotta try to kill this plant, oh wait, i did, happy ending, maybe there's more out there, dealing with them forever / at any time? sure, maybe! ask musical be more chill all about it.

i had another addendum but while not irrelevant it's also like, truly a whole tangent & maybe i don't have the wherewithal for it at this juncture. so instead yknow tl;dr much to wrestle with like as art imitating life like nobody's "doomed" like the characters died because you had that happen. in reality there were also reasons people died and there was a context that is only their "doom" if drawing a line and washing our hands of it. is a doom we supposedly share as an audience but feel more separated from in thee cinema more cathartic or whatever. whereas if our besties died without us it's like i'm blowing this whole building up, you can't make me was my hands of them and understand myself as Separate, Other, Couldn't Be Me? we may ask ourselves. and idk look at our little guys yknow it's like yeah you can't do this sorry. how do we do it with stage little guys? i don't know, having experienced such neither First nor Ever. tragic deaths, you only don't actually care, or it's like, hey. no. are they So Us that they're Too doomed by dying? idk but of course the success in being upset about it either way. failure is if i don't give a shit, don't have fun & be myself along the way

[afklancelot]

the more i think bout it, the more i realize i didn't really like scp-6001. besides the bland references to previous scps, it just felt way too idealistic, especially with all the groups of interest coming together to one big organization, with one group specializing in one thing (paraphasing and remembering off the top of my head).

i think the reason why it didn't work for me is that the "twist" is that there really is not much wrong with the society, like it's not a crapsack world in disguise. and im actually glad that wasn't the case! but it would've been nice to see at least some problem within 6001 actually be explored in a section. maybe it could be overpopulation or occasional government incompetence, but it would've been nice to have a message that even 6001 isn't completely perfect, that it still has it's own problems but is handling them relatively well. from what i can remember the only problem that i saw was dragons, which could've also been nice to explore, but alas.

and if i remember correctly, the entrance to 6001 is in Japan. this seems intentional, and seeing as how 6001 is a near perfect place, the placement of the entrance to 6001 being in japan implies a correlation. but japan also has its own batch of problems, be it in its work culture, judicial system, or- as i said before- government incompetence from time to time. this isn't to say the author had to be aware of shit like that when writing, but the placement specifically being in japan just feels over-idealized, from the eyes of a tourist. and maybe that's the point, since the main protag is technically a tourist being guided by the cat scientist.

but hey, it was still better than scp-6000