#then again there are Dang Romp antis

[proship-cafe]

periodical (and deeply funny) reminder that, technically, all hmstck ships are incest

[honeylikewords]

what are your favourite marvel villains and why?

That’s a really interesting question, and thank you for asking!

For me, I’m not that into villains. I don’t actually like the whole “grey-moral ‘is he good is he bad’?” schtick. I mean, sometimes it works, but more often than not, it doesn’t. I don’t need to write a whole essay about why I think villain-woobifying can get really gross and not actually develop a deep character but rather just play at the idea of “median zones of morality”, so instead, I’ll just give the best answer I can.

Marvel movies, on the whole, suffer from really objectively one dimensional or illogical villains. For example, Thanos, the super hyped UltraBaddie, is really just… very bland. His reasoning for universal-level genocide isn’t even that well thought out.

Just googling “marvel villain problem” yields nearly ten million results in just 0.49 seconds! Read some of the articles here, if you want! Marvel really has struggled with trying to dimensionalize characters (whether heroes or villains), and sometimes, the efforts just fall flat.

But, of the roster of villains we do have, here are ones that I liked, presented in two categories: objectively interesting and compelling villains, and just rowdy guys who are fun to watch.

Compelling Villains:

1. Erik Killmonger, Black Panther. There’s a LOT to say about Erik Killmonger. Erik is widely regarded as the first (and possibly only) breakout, deep, and complex villain of the MCU. But he still suffers within the narrative form because, in the end, they just… kill him. It just ends abruptly. But the themes he introduced, the concepts, the practical reality of what a person pushed this far by societal hatred and personal suffering can do? It was amazing to watch. 

Obviously, Erik isn’t a good guy. The story didn’t set him up to be redeemable: the writers were conscious of making him aggressively anti-female and violent in a realistic, frightening way. But they also set him up to be sympathetic. One could see how a man brought low by the world would start to think the way he did. 

Erik broke the mold for Marvel, and while I have a lot of feelings (complex and counterintuitive ones) about his arc, he’s far and away the best the MCU has produced in terms of legitimate, fascinating, deeply human villains.

2. Wilson Fisk, specifically in DD s1. Technically, Wilson Fisk is part of the extended television/Netflix MCU, but he still counts, in my opinion. Fisk was the first time I ever found myself actually rooting for the bad guy and wondering “wait… is he… not evil?”

I cried for Wilson Fisk. I ached for his sadness. I wanted him to be happy and to be with Vanessa. I felt awful that he lost Wesley. I felt for him and it confused and scared me, and that’s awesome work on the part of the writers. I’m a firm believer in doing good and being heroic no matter the cost, so I rarely sympathize with villains, but, wow, Fisk caught me off guard.

Seeing the little boy he was and the trauma he went through, the way he actually was just a boy trying to help, save, and protect his mother and, in his later life, the city that raised him, was heartbreaking. Watching him go through the immense tragedy of his life stirred deep sympathy in me.

He was intimately human and so strangely sweet, so honest, so vulnerable, that it became hard for me to see him as a bad man. I wanted him to change, to turn around, to pull out before it was all too late. And that’s what makes him such a hugely fascinating villain.

Maybe it’s because Vincent D’Onofrio, himself, is autistic, and he intentionally played Fisk as also being on the spectrum. Maybe that rang true to me and I felt that connection and tenderness and love and the overwhelming sensation of a world so vicious that you just want to make it quiet and calm by whatever means necessary. But whatever it was, and however the writers accomplished it, that feeling, that intense emotional level of “please, please don’t, I don’t want to see you go astray like this” stays with me long after that season ended.

(Here is a good article talking about the representation of Fisk and why it can be dicey and unsafe to make villains disabled, but why it worked in this situation and why it matters.)

And, now, RowdyBoy Villains Who Are Pretty Fun But Not All That Deep, Really:

1. Ego, The Living Planet, Guardians of the Galaxy 2. Ugh, what a weirdo! But super funny. Ego’s big fight with Peter is both a combination hilarious, pitiful, weird, and legitimately sad. Ego is such a strange bird and seeing Kurt Russell play this freakazoid was a fun, quirky ride. Ego may have been an ass, but he was at least fun to watch being an ass. Plus, my dad likes his beard. Great job, Ego! I guess?

2. Grandmaster, Thor: Ragnarok. Oh my GOD, I unironically love Grandmaster. Everything about Grandmaster is great. Everything. He’s just such a sore thumb and such a wonderful addition to the MCU. Jeff Goldblum in swishy gold pleather with a melting stick, improvising half his lines and just being like that all the time? God, I love Grandmaster. I’d die for Grandmaster. I want more Grandmaster and I want it NOW. Out of all of these, he’s my actual favorite and someone I actually like. Like, oh my god, he’s just such a perfect character. Praise be to Grandmaster.

3. Loki, Thor: Ragnarok. Sorry, gotta say it, but I hated Loki up until Ragnarok. Every single other iteration of Loki skeeves the hell out of me and is just gross to me. The first time we meet Loki in Avengers, he’s a direct N*zi/F*scist parallel. No way, no how, not a chance am I gonna give that kind of creep a shot. I’m sorry, but no, get away from me. Plus, his enormous fanbase of fangirls cooing over him and woobifying him and making him out to be some sorry angel when he was a greasy genocidal maniac was just revolting.

But then came Ragnarok, and, finally, Marvel got Loki right. Or, well, more aptly, Taika Waititi got Loki right. Thank you, Taika, for redeeming the entire MCU by your damn self.

Loki is a trickster god, not a god of death or violence or war. Loki was, in the original myths, just a tricky person who liked to change their gender/sex, their shape, their dang species, all just to have a romp of a time. Loki wasn’t some N*zi affiliate god of bloodthirst. He was just an asshole who played pranks and got pregnant a lot. You heard me. Read all about it right here. And here. And here, too, for good measure.

So when Ragnarok rolled into theatres and presented us with a funny, human, sympathetic (and likely queer-coded) and genuinely appreciable Loki who just was kind of the epitome of “useless Slytherin; desperate to get their way but shite at getting it sneakily”, I finally learned to like the guy.

I don’t love him, don’t get me wrong, and he’s certainly no one I admire, respect, or am attracted to, but at least now I can stand him. I can appreciate him somewhat. I can see good in him that simply wasn’t present before. 

Plus, he’s just actually funny. Like, Tom Hiddleston has really solid comedic timing and great expressions, and once all that ridiculous melodrama was cast aside from the earlier Thor movies and replaced by an attitude of genuine humor, Loki’s snarky, selfish, stupid-ass side finally got the spotlight and I actually enjoyed watching him do his stuff.

Sorry there aren’t many legit villains on here: again, I tend to despise villains and I don’t see much value in pretending they’re “deep” for being monstrous. Sometimes a bad thing is just bad, and we don’t need to pretend it’s more than that. 

Thank you for asking, and I hope this answers your question, or at least gives you more insight into what I like to consume in my media!