#the way thony turned her face away from nadia and arman

[idealisticrealism]

TCL 3x07 thoughts (and even more feelings)

Now that’s how you do a tribute. Wow. Even though I was well and truly crying by two minutes in (and probably cried through about half of the episode in total), I actually feel kind of honoured to have gotten to watch that, to feel not only the love that the other characters had for Arman, but also the love that the entire cast and crew had for Adan. And while I truly wish we’d never had to lose either of them, I’ll always be grateful to have gotten such a beautiful goodbye.

Sorry if parts of this come off a little confusing… I had so many thoughts about everything and couldn’t decide how to organise them... in hindsight, probably should have just gone chronologically haha, but oh well. Here goes. 

Thony /Armony.

Honestly I’m impressed I managed to get a whole 90 or so seconds into the ep before the tears started, especially when it opened with Thony looking absolutely wrecked, sitting at a table with a bottle of alcohol, her buddha, some used tissues, and every piece of evidence she has about who was responsible for Arman’s kidnapping… and then for her to just shove it all to the floor and put her face in her hands?? Ugh, my baby. Her conversation with Fi was so devastating from both sides; on Thony’s part because losing Arman has broken something vital in her, and on Fi’s part because she can see the true extent of Thony’s pain as well as the dangerous path that Thony’s heading down (fixating on getting justice/vengeance for Arman rather than just letting herself grieve), and she knows she can’t stop either of them. And ugh then immediately after, when Luca has lost his beloved toy and the writers hit us (and Thony!) with: “That’s okay, my love. Sometimes we lose things and it’s… it’s fine to be sad about it.” Her face as her brain registers the truth of the words coming out of her mouth, even as she knows she can’t follow her own advice… ouch. And speaking of painful, the choice of Thony’s outfit for the wake haunts me; she’s covered head to toe in white (the traditional Cambodian mourning colour), and she’s also wearing the buddha necklace that we’ve previously seen her touch for comfort in stressful moments… I’m certain no one but us and Fi would be able to read the subtle lament of grief and pain that those choices represent. (And yet despite that, Fi still somehow thinks she can convince Thony not to go to the wake of the man she loves?? C’mon now Fi be real here lol) 

But ugh, that big breath Thony takes before getting out of the elevator at La Habana, her eyes closed and hands clutching tight at her jacket? Having to prepare herself to step into this space, his space, and be faced with the reality of his absence? And then even when Jorge tries to intercept her and turn her away for her own safety, she brushes him off and goes straight for Arman’s altar, because lbr, nothing’s keeping her away from this, from him. Her openly saying “We both lost him” to Nadia was honestly a surprise because of how clearly it indicated she was putting them both in the same category– aka both women who truly loved him, both of them made ‘widows’ by his loss??? Damn, that was more direct than I expected her to be. And ugh when she says to Ramona: “All I ever wanted was to bring Arman home” (...) “I need answers too. I don’t know how to move on from here.” I think that statement really captures one of the major aspects of both the episode and of Thony’s character: how utterly lost she is now. When Arman was missing, Thony had a goal to focus on. Even from S1, it was pretty clear that with any difficulty that was happening in her life, Thony could get through it as long as she had something to strive for, some way to keep moving forward. Like fighting to get treatments for Luca (and more recently, preventing CPS from taking him away). Outwitting Garrett and the FBI. Getting Arman free of Kamdar’s debt. Getting Fi home after her deportation. And of course, finding Arman and bringing him home. But now that he’s dead, the ‘difficulty’ that she’s facing has no solution. He’s just gone, and there’s nothing she can do to change it, no way to solve or fix it. No matter what she does, she will never be able to achieve the goal of getting him back. (Yes, I cried writing that). And so that is exactly why, instead of just accepting his loss and letting herself grieve like Fi says, she fixates on the only thing she can do: confirm that Dante was responsible, and then make sure he doesn’t get away with it, even if it means walking straight into the lion’s den and accusing one of their own.

The scene when she stands by Arman’s altar and remembers the first time she came to La Habana was so painful to watch; back then, she came to him to save a dying Luca, and yet only like 4 months later, Arman is the one whose life has been cut short. Thanks to him, though, Luca is safe and healthy, and will likely lead a full and happy life. There’s something so poignant about Jorge bringing the drawing to her right at that moment, almost like it’s a sign from Arman that it’s okay, that Luca’s life was always more important than his own. And honestly I can’t believe that Thony admits what she does to Jorge– that she thought she and Arman would have more time, and that there was so much that she’d never gotten to say to him. Like wow, talk about a love confession?? She knew how she felt about Arman, but had kept pushing it aside, thinking that there would be time for it later; that eventually everything with the FBI and Kamdar and Luca and Fi would settle down and they would have the chance to really acknowledge what was between them. But now that chance is gone, along with everything they could have been, and she's grieving that as well as him. And while it’s a truth that she had a hard time even admitting to Fi, she knows that Jorge will get it, both as someone who loved Arman (and who missed out on a lot of time with him, and had a lot of things that went unsaid) and also as a man who has been through the loss of the love of his life. Honestly, Jorge could save Thony’s life a dozen times over and I’ll still never be as grateful to him as I was for the simple fact that he told her he thinks Arman knew all the things she never got to tell him. (And really, from everything we’ve seen… I think he’s right. Arman knew.). 

That moment was one of many punches to the heart from this ep, and honestly one of the most painful was when Thony is left to clean up Dante’s murder (and in that all-white outfit! Oh no), and she’s frantically trying to get Fi to leave, not only because she doesn’t want Fi involved in this dangerous world, but also because I think she knew she was seconds from completely falling apart and she didn’t want Fi to see it. The wobble in her voice as she says “Everything is fine now. Everything is over… it’s over” and then just immediately breaks down sobbing?? Devastating. Because like I said, the need to make Dante pay for what he did to Arman was the only thing keeping her together and functioning– and with one bullet, it was suddenly done, and what does she have left now?? Just inescapable grief and emptiness in the space that Arman used to occupy in her life. It’s all over now, and that's really highlighted by the fact that the first thing she does after finishing cleaning up the murder is to tell Fi that she’s walking away from the criminal world (mirroring 1x01 when she was dragged into it by cleaning a murder), and then goes straight to Arman’s altar to tell him goodbye. She doesn’t tell him how grateful she is– she’s already told him that, many times over the course of their relationship– but instead, she needs him to know she’s sorry, for everything that had led them here, and for the fact she couldn’t save him. And then ugh, her “I just hope you knew…” and the way her eyes close as a more mournful version of their theme/leitmotif starts to play, and we see all the flashes of her memories of him?? We may not have heard her say the word ‘love’ out loud but we didn’t need to. This entire episode was a love letter from Thony to Arman, her own personal velorio within a velorio. (Not to mention, in this article sent to me by @crwdgoinapeshit, Elodie specifically describes Arman as someone Thony 'loved a lot, if not the love of her life' ugh). And lbr if his parents hadn’t appeared at that moment and interrupted things, she probably would  have finished that sentence, and would have said aloud how much she loved him. But like Jorge said– he knew. He died knowing she loved him, and that she would carry a piece of him with her always. 

Ok I love that despite her having told Fi that she’d be right out in a minute, and having the opportunity to just easily walk away when the drama starts unfolding with Arman's parents, she simply looks at his picture again, and then walks over to join Nadia, like she’s telling him,  “Don’t worry. I’ll have Nadia’s back, and if needed I’ll do my best to keep your family from bringing the place down on all our heads.” And that choice turns out to be a significant one, because she overhears that Ramona’s middle name is Marina, just like the word Arman wrote in the dust– and just like that, it’s not over. She has a purpose again, and she’s not going to stop until she’s achieved it. The leader of one of the most dangerous cartels in the country took the man Thony loved, a man that was supposed to be family to Ramona, and now Thony is coming for her. And if that’s not fucking badass, I don’t know what is.

Ngl, I do feel a little bit like I need to write a scene-insert fic for the gap between when when Arman’s parents leave, and when Thony gets into the car with Fi, because I think there’s a rather important conversation that needs to happen there between Thony and Nadia– both a ‘we need to talk, later’ (regarding Ramona and Arman) and a ‘can I have this’ (regarding the mini caddy), because I would feel bad if Thony just took it without asking, especially given that Nadia herself felt so bad about accepting it from Isabel. But oh my heart, when she sat down with Luca and reminded him about Arman, and pulled out the mini caddy… and then the “I’m sure he would want you to have it” (he really would) and “But no matter what it went though, my friend only loved it more. Do you think you can keep it safe for him?” (Help, there’s a waterfall coming out of my eyeballs.) To watch the ep end with Arman and Thony driving off into the sunset together in the caddy was all kinds of rough… I know a lot of fans kind of wish that that was the ending we had for them, that we’d never gotten a S3 renewal and could instead all just live in a shared fantasy where Arman and Thony got to go on to lead full lives together. And honestly sometimes I feel that way too. But I have also loved and appreciated season 3, and I’m grateful to have had more time with this incredible cast, and also to say goodbye to Arman and Armony in such a beautiful way.

Fiona.

Once again, Fi is very much proving herself to be the Samwise Gamgee to Thony’s Frodo Baggins, from trying to convince her to stop and let herself grieve (like Thony tried to do for her after Marco’s death), to trying to protect her by keeping her from going to the wake, to realising that even if Thony is doing things she doesn’t agree with, she’s going to stand by her. Ngl I did feel for her with Thony’s very blithe “Don’t worry! If anyone’s gonna kill me, it’s not gonna happen at a wake!” because that’s hardly reassuring, Thony! And seriously can you imagine S1 Thony ever saying something like that??? I think our girl has spent a little too much time in the criminal underworld, and she’s starting to get desensitised– and Fi can see it, can see how both that desensitisation and Thony’s need for justice for Arman is leading Thony to go deeper and take risks that could easily backfire on her or their family. Ugh but that moment in the laundry when she really thinks about the lengths that she and Thony would go to for each other, and realises that while Thony is making some unfair decisions in the grip of her grief, Thony would also run straight into any danger for her without a second thought– and so she decides to do the same, because that's who they are to each other.

Honestly I’m proud of the guts it must have taken Fi to go to the wake despite the presence of the cartel and their possible anger about Arman’s death, all so she can be with Thony to support her through this loss. But she does it, because she knows the loss is that immense for Thony. I’ll admit I’m a little confused why Fi would have gone to the loading dock rather than through the main entrance, and while it’s likely literally just for plot reasons, I’m going to explain it as bc she used to go to the loading dock to drop Thony off/pick her up when Thony worked at La Habana. I’m sure Thony probably even took her up in the service elevator one time and gave her a sneaky after-hours tour haha. But ugh of course her taking the service elevator now means that she’s right there as Dante leads Thony out, and in true Samwise fashion, she doesn’t go running for help– she goes to rescue her Mr Frodo herself! Seeing her creeping along armed only with a hammer, ready to take on all 6 foot 3 inches of Dante in order to save her beshie?? What a brave, foolish, wonderful woman. But then Jorge and Ramona appear and she’s too outnumbered to do anything, and all she can do is hide there and listen– and dude, for at least a solid minute or so she legitimately thinks that she just listened to one of her family getting murdered. Like holy shit that’s gotta add a whole new fresh level of PTSD on top of what she already had from her border crossing ordeal. And then for her to stay and help Thony clean the blood, despite Thony desperately trying to make her leave? It makes me think of Thony’s introduction to the underworld in 1x01, witnessing a murder and having to clean it up– Thony had no choice but to be pulled into that world, but Fi does. She can see that Thony is walking straight down the path into Mordor (sorry for the continued LOTR references, but they’re the best I got atm lol) and she chooses to go with her.

And I am so glad of that, not only because Thony is so clearly spiralling without Arman and needs Fi’s support, but also because we all know that now that I can’t have Armony, there’s literally nothing I want to see more out of this show than my dream of the three Mob Queens (Thony, Fi, Nadia) running Vegas lol. Plus, Fi has spent the last 2 seasons being a counterweight of sorts to Arman in the tug-of-war for Thony’s life-path; Thony’s relationship with Arman drew her deeper into the criminal world, while Fi has been trying to drag her away from it. But now Arman is gone, Thony is the one choosing to continue deeper in the underworld, and I think it would be really interesting to see Fi realise that her efforts to pull her away are never going to work, and instead kind of go ‘alright, if you can’t beat them, join them’ and follow her. (And I mean, the thing about Sin Cara being faceless means anyone could take over as the new Sin Cara, and no one need ever know…......)

Nadia.

Ugh, my baby Nadia. She seems so broken, so young and alone. And even with Ramona saying supportive things and calling her ‘my daughter’, her being in the office with Ramona and Jorge does have less the feeling of family support and more like sharks circling, especially when they start questioning her about the FBI. No wonder she seems to panic a little (justifiably, considering that she had Russo in this room only like a week ago!) and so tells them about Thony knowing the meet location– but unlike other times she’s deliberately directed blame at Thony to get it off herself, this time she actually immediately stops and backtracks, trying to defend her. I love that deep down she knows that Thony would never betray Arman like that, because Thony loved him too. And even when Thony shows up to the wake uninvited, Nadia’s immediate response isn’t to get angry or kick her out; it’s ~almost~ even like relief, because here is someone she can actually talk to about what’s going on. When she asks her about the Feds, it’s not because she thinks Thony called them; it's because Thony’s the only one she can trust to help in figuring out how they knew. But then Thony gets frustrated about Nadia telling Ramona and throwing suspicion on her, and Nadia gets frustrated about how trusting Thony about Dante potentially cost them Arman, and honestly I love this conversation so much?? They’re in conflict over Arman, just like they always have been, but now that he’s gone they’re also oddly united, and only have each other to turn to. Thony’s apologies to her are heartfelt, and there’s no force in it when Nadia suggests she leave. Tbh I don’t think she actually knows if she wants Thony to leave or stay, because while on one level she is angry with her, having her there to direct her anger towards is a much-needed outlet; and plus when it comes down to it I think she needs the familiarity and support that comes with having Thony present, especially with the Sanchez sharks around. It’s funny, but Nadia and Thony’s relationship is starting to feel just as sibling-like as the Sanchezs’ to me; that complicated mix of comfort and antagonism that any of us with siblings know so well. (Also ugh Nadia’s “Do whatever you want, you always do anyway” is practically an exact echo of what Arman said to her in 1x03, and I’m not fine at all). 

But regarding Nadia and Thony’s relationship, I think it’s clear that they’re only going to get closer as the season progresses, and one hint towards that is the complete change in the way Nadia interacts with Isabel in this ep. In the earlier seasons you could tell she didn’t like Isabel at all, and hated it when she came to La Habana/around Arman. She was absolutely jealous, because of the exact thing Isabel admits to her now: that she never stopped loving him. Before his loss, that was a threat, just like Thony was. Now, it’s a comfort, a connection that only three people can understand: Isabel, Nadia, and Thony. Aside from maybe his mother, the three loves that Arman had over the course of his life are the only ones who will truly carry his memory with them, the ones that will keep a part of him alive- and at least in some way, they’ll be forever bonded by that. But god, Isabel’s line about not being able to believe he’s gone, about walking into La Habana and feeling like he could suddenly appear from around a corner– that one was absolutely in there for the cast and crew, who have said practically the exact same thing about Adan in interviews. Having lost both the character and the actor makes this episode even more poignant and tragic, and you can feel the love in every aspect of it. 

But sigh my poor increasingly-inebriated Nadia is not making the best calls at the moment, such as running straight to the office to get Russo’s business card (out of its very secure location amongst a bunch of papers in the safe) to burn it right then and there. Not suspicious at all haha.  And of course Jorge catches her doing it, which would have probably been a nail in her own coffin if not for Jorge spotting the picture Luca drew (which Arman kept in the safe, ughhh), and that leading to her admitting the truth of Arman’s love for Thony and the regrets she had about their marriage, and Jorge seeming to realise that she did sincerely love Arman and wouldn’t have betrayed him. And man, does she demonstrate that beautifully when Arman’s parents arrive and the Morales siblings all start fighting, and she’s the one that calls them all out on it and reminds them that they’re here for Arman, and that he deserves respect, not their pettiness. Absolute queen behaviour from both Nadia and Eva, who completely knocked it out of the park this episode. Based on cast interviews, she seems to have been the cast member most affected by Adan’s death, so filming this episode must have been so incredibly difficult for her, but she was beyond amazing. And for Nadia’s sake, as unexpected as her last scene with Jorge was, I was so glad that someone finally thought to give her a goddamn hug!!!

Jorge.

Ugh, hearing Jorge using that soft voice with Thony, and him immediately apologising for not checking in on her, then trying to warn her of the danger from Ramona… like damn, kudos to the writers for managing to take a character I was so prepared to hate and making me like him. Jorge really did love Arman, and has begun to genuinely care about Thony, and I’m sure that it would mean a lot to Arman that his brother-uncle is doing what he can to protect the woman he loved now that he can’t do it himself. But ugh, Jorge’s wonder at seeing the mini caddy again and realising that Arman had saved it from the fire, and then him admitting how much he’d wanted to get Arman back after Eduardo had separated them? That was so bittersweet to watch. Tbh I think he spent years deliberately not thinking about his love for Arman, but then everything surrounding Arman’s abduction and death has brought it all to the surface, and I’m looking forward to how that will affect his choices from here.

For now, his next step is to interrogate Nadia a little to be sure that she didn’t betray Arman (and maybe also because he’s hoping to find Ramona a scapegoat that isn’t Thony??). The initial part of their conversation was actually super sweet though, and omg, learning that Arman wanted to go legit partly so he could help his dad open a distillery? One they’d call Heart of Heaven?? (Or maybe Heavenly Heart? I’m not sure exactly how the Spanish would translate). God, despite his badass exterior, my boy Arman really was just too soft and good for this world. And ngl, Jorge seems to have a bit of that in him too. His next conversation with Nadia– about his own (seemingly rocky) marriage and his regrets about it, and about losing his wife Vanessa– definitely seemed to create a genuine understanding between them for the first time, and I liked that he apologised to her for accusing her. So looks like Jorge now has two women to protect on behalf of Arman. 

Him bringing the drawing to Thony was so kind and thoughtful– partly for just even recognising what it would mean to her, but also for telling her that Arman had always wanted kids and basically implying that Arman would have viewed Luca as his own. In that simple act of taking the drawing, he spared Nadia from the pain of having to deal with it, and he ensured Thony got to have this reminder of Arman’s love, and I’m so grateful for it. Losing Arman– and him learning just how truly she had loved and had been loved by his brother-nephew– has definitely changed and solidified their bond, which is why she trusts him with the arrest report about Dante, and why she dares to even voice the possibility that Ramona could be involved. And though he immediately shuts her down about that, he still takes the report straight to Ramona and challenges her about what they’re going to do about it, showing that he is worthy of that trust from Thony.

But hooo boy, after everything that happens with Dante, and then the showdown with Eduardo, we definitely get to see a new side of Jorge, the frustrated agitation of a man who is starting to question everything he thought he knew. Arman’s death is going to have a ripple effect, that’s for sure, and though Jorge is still being the obedient brother for now and cleaning up the mess with Dante (interesting how Ramona was the one to pull the trigger, but it was Jorge and Thony that were the ones dealing with the consequences and making it disappear) I think he’s going to be doing some pushing back against her as the season goes on, and as he tries to figure out the truth. I couldn’t quite make out what he said to Dante’s body as he was kneeling beside it; couldn’t tell if he was apologising for his fate or telling him it was what he deserved lol!  @prhiswife do you mind translating? Also if you can be bothered translating any more of the Spanish in this ep I would be very interested to hear any or all of it lol. But honestly it surprised me to see him go back to La Habana there at the end, to stop before Arman’s photo and then to seek connection with Nadia about their mutual loss… and tbh, it looked like almost too much connection for a second there???? For a very fleeting moment I honestly thought they were actually heading for a kiss (the crying and the face touching felt oddly reminiscent of Armony in 1x06) and I was like ???? what the fuckkk??? Lol. But I think it was more just him genuinely trying to comfort her, and I'm happy to see the foundations for Thony's team of criminal badasses (Fi, Nadia, and Jorge) developing....

(I mean, it would be objectively hilarious if the show decided to make another Morales man fall in love with both Thony and Nadia, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening here lol) 

Ramona.

Loved seeing the sibling tension building over Jorge’s support of Thony, and loved seeing how immediately he defended Thony/how genuinely she wanted Arman back. Like Nadia, he really does believe she wouldn’t betray Arman. At this point of the ep it’s almost a bit of a Ramona and Nadia vs Jorge and Thony scenario, even if poor Nadia and Thony actually want no part in this sibling debate lol, and are in many ways united on their own team. The odd moment Ramona has when she stands from the chair definitely seems to indicate some kind of pain or medical symptom (like dizziness or something) and was very deliberately included by the writers… more clues that she is secretly dying??? But anyway later when Ramona says that with Arman’s death, there’s no reason to keep his ‘accessories’ (aka Thony, and maybe Nadia too?) around, I appreciate that Jorge again immediately defends Thony. He’s starting to see Thony (and soon, Nadia too) as a member of their extended family and I love that.

Okay yasss to this showdown of these two strong, intelligent, determined women, facing off against one another in a kitchen of all places (a setting that has associations with the disempowerment and minimisation of women)…  not to mention that with one all in black and the other all in white, they’re forming the perfect contrast of good and bad, light and dark… the writers made so many deliberate choices here and I love it. These two started out on such uneven ground, with Thony shrinking before the might of Sin Cara, and now here they stand perfectly eye to eye, with Thony daring to call out Ramona’s right hand man as their potential traitor. Daaamn. Seeing Thony witness Ramona’s shaky hand was also interesting– if not for that little ‘moment’ Ramona had earlier in the office, the shakiness could easily have been read as a sign of emotional stress in response to Thony questioning her about Dante, but instead it looks like further proof of the ‘Ramona is dying’ theory… either way, no doubt it’s going to come up between them at some point. Also lolllll at Thony’s “oh come on” expression when she sees Dante kiss Ramona (lol zero chemistry there, sorry guys) and realises she literally just accused Ramona’s boyfriend right to Ramona’s face. Oopsies. I think she might have suddenly been a bit less certain about the assurance she gave Fi about no one killing her at the wake after that?? Lol. But anyhow, now that Thony knows the truth about Marina, the next showdown between these two is bound to be even more epic…

Also it's interesting that when Jorge brings Ramona the police report and the truth about Dante, she makes a token effort to argue with him and say that Thony could be making it up, but within seconds she’s texting Dante to bring Thony down to the dock (given he literally nabs Thony like 30 seconds later). Clearly she’s not the type who hesitates about doing what needs to be done, no matter what it is, including murdering her boyfriend to cover her own ass. This woman is stone cold, that's for sure. But damn look at that Sanchez sibling swagger as they make their entrance, and the way Jorge puts on a little show about saying sorry to Thony, luring Dante into being secure enough to put his own gun away… and then Ramona gives her own little spiel about not taking betrayal lightly while Thony sputters for words to defend herself. Like yes that was absolutely meant to ~build the suspense~ for us viewers (and also to traumatise poor Fi), but also maybe it’s a sign that Thony is being considered to enter the family in a more meaningful way, and a warning for her if she does? 

But oh dude when the Morales family are having their big confrontation and Jorge learns that Eduardo and Teresa begged Ramona to let Jorge stay with them? And that she forbade them from trying to reach out to him?? He’s spent his whole life believing he knows the truth of what happened, to the point where he genuinely hates his own brother for it (and spent years resenting Arman as well) but now he’s starting to realise that maybe he’s only ever been fed her version, and that she may have manipulated him all along?? Oooh, that’s really going to ramp up the sibling tension a whole lot more for the rest of the season. And speaking of which, I saw someone suggest somewhere (sorry to whoever it was, I looked but couldn’t find the post again, happy to credit you if you let me know) that maybe Ramona actually had Jorge’s wife Vanessa killed to stop her from ‘stealing’ him away from her/the business, and oh man that would definitely make things interesting! Tbh atm I’m having a hard time imagining him fully turning on Ramona, even with the truth about her involvement with Arman’s abduction, but if he learns she killed Vanessa… well, that would be something to see.

Jeremy (ugh).

Ngl, really appreciated that Thony’s thoughts seemed to be echoing my own sentiments when I immediately yelled “Oh, fuck off, Jeremy!” the moment he appeared on the screen. Honestly I hate this guy so much, and I hate that even after costing them Arman, he’s still here, still invading their space and their private grief. Given Nadia’s very convenient building explosion and the insurance payout that her new lawyer was able to push through suspiciously fast, and also the fact that Nadia previously told Russo that a cartel had taken Arman, Russo is clearly after anyone and everyone she can possibly take out in the criminal world, and so she’s keeping Jeremy undercover because she knows that Thony is tied up in it all somehow. All Jeremy’s ‘casual’ questions are really grating on me, and it makes me wonder exactly what happened on the cliff after Arman’s car went off the edge… like the FBI were right behind them, so I’m assuming that he and Thony and Fi were all taken in for individual questioning by the FBI? But how would that have worked for Fi, given the FBI knew she was deported like a month ago?? I’m guessing we’re just supposed to ignore that, and to assume that the FBI let them go after ‘believing’ their story. Certainly letting them go would have been the smarter move, because they knew that they had Jeremy right there as a mole to get the kind of information that the women would never give up? But ugh damn the stress of the Velorio situation making Thony so distracted and eager to get away that she agrees to let this guy put cameras up in their house!! Girl, no!!!! Now he has cameras to see exactly who is coming and going from your house, cameras that he can access at any time!! And then omg Fi you also let him access the smoke detector, where he could plant a bug??? Goddamn this guy and his smooth lies-- like how much of that story about his dad on 9/11 do you think was fake? Probably all of it, just like everything else about him ugh. The FBI boys in this show sure do love sob stories about their dads (though at least Garrett’s was true!). But seriously, charismatic as this guy is, could these two stop being so chill about leaving him unattended in their house???? 

Promo spoilers.

Okay I know I don’t usually talk much about the promos for next ep during these recaps, but damnnn it looks so intense that I need to unpack it lol. First, Thony seems to have some kind of nightmare about Sin Cara, and ugh, what if she sees Arman in it? I'm not ready for how she'd react to that. And then the clip of her looking all tearstained (maybe the next morning?) telling Fi “If Ramona had anything to do with this, she has to pay”? Damn, she's really gonna do it, she's going to go up against the cartel version of The Godfather. (And you know what? She's gonna win.) But I’m curious which scene is going to happen first; Thony in the grungy apartment with Jorge and Ramona  (with Ramona telling Jorge to shoot her, and him seeing the ‘Marin’ writing) or Thony coming to see her in the art gallery in that red dress?? (the last time she wore that, Arman killed someone for her. Is this a sign she’s going to return the favour and kill Ramona??). At this point I'm definitely assuming the apartment stuff happens first, and obviously Jorge refuses and doesn’t shoot Thony, and he confronts Ramona about the Marina thing; and so having him sort of on her side (or at least, no longer so firmly on Ramona's) will help her be bold enough to confront Ramona at the gallery. Thony’s comment about the things people do when they have nothing to lose is interesting; I’m assuming it’s directed at Ramona, and maybe about the fact that she’s dying??? (Obviously it can’t be about Thony because she has plenty to lose.) Anyway ugh I’m so pissed about fucking Jeremy somehow weaseling his way into The Cleaning Ladies as well as their personal life?? Can someone please kill this guy already.  One of the clips looks like Thony’s dragging his body across a floor (you can see a glimpse of the light blue shirt on a man-sized body, so it makes sense that it’s him), and too bad we know he’s involved in the filming for later episodes, bc I would have absolutely thrown a party if he died this ep lol. Oh well, there's always hope for Thony to kill him in the finale haha

Anyway I think that's (finally) all for this week, and while it's going to suck waiting a whole extra week for next ep, at least they gave us one of the best episodes of the entire show so far to tide us over until then.

As always, I'm super happy to chat about this show so feel free to reply/send me an ask if you have anything you wanna contribute!

[nat111love]

“Thony watching arman interact with the women of his life”

[the1northlanderprincess]

Armony finale review

Well, things may not have turned out as we have foreseen or speculated. My bad. But what we did get? Yummy.

Okay, I just want to say first that I was actually amazed that Katherine let Thony go so quickly. Like, I was a little concerned about it. Whew....got that out of the way!

So, Thony and Arman’s first interaction is when she goes to find him at the hotel. I love how the hostess is accommodating. Usually they’re all, this club is private, blah, blah blah. Hehe, she knows who Thony is. Anyway, Thony makes it down to the kitchen when Nadia approaches from the shadows. She’s very snippy, saying Thony’s services are no longer required, but then she softens, asks about Luca. When Thony answers that he’s fine, Nadia is like, that’s good. Then gets down to business and asks, but very forcefully, that Thony’s dealings with her husband are over. Thony stares her down politely, but her eyes clearly say, “make me”. Arman pops up and cavalierly calls Thony over, and Nadia starts arguing with him in Spanish. Arman puts his hand out to call her off for the time being so he can discuss some things with Thony.

We get to the spoiled clip, which I will not go into detail, since I already did that (saving me some time and words, ahaha). We pick up with Thony telling Arman they can work with the FBI, and like we all knew, he’s resisting. Then Thony tells him what the stakes are. He’s like, whoa, wait, you shouldn’t be involved in this. She sits across from him, so close, that their hands are touching. She looks into his eyes, like, Babe, I don’t want you to freak out, but this is what happened with me. It's all frustrating for Arman but he won't budge. Thony asks him about wanting to be free from Hayak. He says he does but not like this. She questions if they have any other choice.

Ultimately, it appears that he does agree to meet Garrett. He arrives at the restaurant and tells Thony that he's going to do the talking. Garrett walks in and thanks Arman for coming. Arman gives him a look. Thony, noticing the rising testosterone, invites them to sit. Garrett starts talking right away about Arman complying, and he's like, says who? He's only here because of Thony, and keeps exchanging looks with her as if saying, can you believe the audacity of this guy. Thony can sense his aggravation, and tells him they could all lose. She says the magic word, and he snaps back to realizing the gravity of their situation. He reluctantly adheres and asks Garrett how it would all work. Garrett lays it all out and says Arman would be able to walk away. Arman looks at Thony again, and demands that she be able to be free completely from the clutches of the Feds. That is real love, people: putting someone else’s needs above yours. Garrett thinks on it, then agrees it would be a triple win for all involved. You know, I’m still surprised that Garrett has not questioned the true nature of Arman and Thony’s bond. He may not be the brightest Fed in the world, but he is still a man, for crying out loud. Maybe he’ll figure it out next season.

The next scene is the long-awaited rooftop scene. Thony tells Arman that Garrett keeps calling her, saying he probably wants to know the latest on the plan. Arman’s like, ehh, I’ll let him know when I’m good and ready. Then he tells her that he’s not letting the FBI take everything from him. As he says this, he has this smile on his face that I can’t place. I don’t know if he was thinking of the plan he had come up or what. But it’s really curious. Thony is a perturbed, and angrily says they could be arrested, or he could be killed. Arman acknowledges that truth, and reveals he came up with his own plan. Thony retorts, saying that’s not part of the plan. And he explains that he’s not going to trust the FBI to do what they promise to do, because he’s seen it happen too many times. Thony’s like, okay, Mister, what’s your brilliant idea, then? He proclaims that he’s going to use it as an advantage.

 Thony is appalled, and says his name a way I can only describe as a woman scolding her sometimes-childish husband. She can’t believe his antics and is visibly annoyed. He tenderly brushes her hair back, and places both hands on her arms, brushing them up and down. Arman reminds her that she once asked him to trust her, then asks if she trusts him. Her face softens, and replies quietly, but firmly, that she does. He nods and proceeds to slide over the box he brought with him, beckoning for her to open it. She does, and it is a housekeeping uniform. She nods in understanding, probably getting a clue as to what her role is. So, this scene has a few tropes that I love. They argue like an old married couple, you have one of them saying the other’s name like they’ve known each other their entire lives and know when they’re about to do something incredibly reckless. And then there’s the classic callback to an earlier line in the manner of “you told me once/asked me” and uses it in return. Love it.

And now, unfortunately, we come to Arman and Thony’s final scene of the season. She goes to visit him in prison. They greet one another in subdued voices, and she asks how he’s doing. He says it’s a small price to pay for a bigger reward. Then she inquires in a tight voice if he got what he wanted, and he says yes, though there’s a silent “not everything” in his voice and expression. Thony smiles a little but folds her hands in front of her mouth to hide her sadness. He presses on, asks if she’s staying or going back to the Philippines. She removes her hands, and fixes her eyes on him straight, telling him matter-of-factly that because he’s in jail, she’ll have to stay. He nods and slips a little smile. He reaches over the table to hold her hands in his, and gazes into her eyes. They stay like that for a good 30 seconds until the guard gives him a look like, really, dude, in front of my prison cafeteria salad?! 

To say that I didn’t breathe during that exchange would be a lie. With such an intense expression exposition, I was legit waiting for Arman to declare his feelings, because he looked like he was on the verge of saying something. But their eyes did all the talking for them. The two of them have finally affirmed to one another that what they have is something more, and it’s collective. After Arman lets go of her, he gives her a speech about not regretting living in America; that it’s a land of opportunity, and all you need is the right combination. It’s a hidden message, and he taps out the numbers to Hayak’s account, Thony smiles coyly and nods. All the while, he’s giving her a smolder. It is the hottest Morse Code relay I’ve ever seen.

Thony and Arman were completely over getting crap from anyone who dared speak against them and their allegiance to one another and it was delightful. I mean, Everybody was questioning Thony about protecting Arman, and Marco went as far as accusing Thony of wanting to stay in Vegas because of Arman. She didn’t answer, confirming for us that it’s the truth, but she doesn’t give Marco the satisfaction of being right. Then we have Nadia, who is constantly hounding Arman about axing Thony from their lives. I was ready to start a drinking game (not really, but you know what I mean). It gets to a point where Arman just shuts her down. He doesn’t want to hear it anymore. 

If we had any doubt before if Arman loved Thony, it wasn’t a problem anymore here. He essentially handed her the 6 million dollars he was wanting to start a straight path, and gave her control of the main money. He is gifting her a way to a better life for herself unselfishly. He trusts her to make the right choices. Is there a way he could have put it in Nadia’s hands? Sure, but he chose the woman he truly loves instead. I will be posting my ideas for how this plays out in season 2 later this week, so stayed tuned!

[idealisticrealism]

TCL 3x11 thoughts

Very delayed bc life is hectic and it's the hiatus anyway. 3x12 to follow at some point lol

The main things: 

The Thony & Nadia of this ep was everything. Nadia being initially furious with Thony about taking the choice out of her hands with faking her death, but then realising that not only would she be 100% dead if Thony hadn’t done it, but Thony had also risked her own life to help her. Thony’s reaction to Jorge saying that she and Nadia were close, recognising the truth in it. Thony arguing on Nadia’s behalf when Jeremy goes back on his deal. Nadia turning to Thony for help getting the cash, and being genuinely appreciative of Thony for doing it. Thony and the family hiding Nadia from Ramona. Nadia being devastated over the marked cash, and Thony helping yet again by getting the stash from the motel. Nadia desperately pleading with her to bring Jorge in, and Thony refusing because she’s still trying to protect all of them, Nadia included. Nadia thanking Thony and Fi with the jewellery from Kamdar and telling them how much their help meant to her. Thony driving Nadia all the way out into the desert, being the last link to her old life, the one to literally deliver her to freedom…. and then the whole “I can’t believe all we’ve been though”/“I’m glad you’re free”/“I hope one day you can be free too, Thony”, and the way Thony is the one to reach for her and then they just hold on to one another so tight?? They really have been through so much together, and they care so much about one another. The love they both had for Arman was initially the thing that stood between them, but now it’s what links them, and in some ways part of that love has transferred to each other since his loss. Despite everything, they are truly family to each other now, which is what makes everything that happens next even more heartbreaking, bc of course the writers just couldn’t let my baby Nadia be free :,(

Ugh and when Ramona appears and accuses Nadia of stabbing her in the back, Thony completely freezes, but Nadia doesn’t panic or fall apart or beg– she could have tried to save herself by telling Ramona about Thony and Jeremy, but she doesn’t. She protects Thony like Thony protected her, and faces her fate with her head held high and her usual cutting snarkiness, and I love her so much for it, even as my heart breaks for both her and Thony. When Ramona stabs Nadia, you can see the utter shock and horror on Thony’s face, and then ugh I’ll never be over the way she just completely disregards Ramona and the threat to her own life to stay by Nadia’s side as she dies, telling her she’s here with her, screaming her name as she’s dragged away…Thony fought so hard to save Nadia, to do for her what she hadn’t been able to do for Arman, and yet she still failed, still lost her like she’s lost so many people she’s cared about in even just the past few months. And okay yes we had some warning, bc this ep was full of painful foreshadowing about it– “I don’t think anyone can make Nadia Morales disappear” “My whole life can’t be for nothing” etc– but ughhhhhh my creys. Honestly them killing Nadia off was just so fucking heartbreaking, because it didn’t need to happen! Losing Arman was of course so incredibly awful, but there was literally no choice there, so that made it just the tiniest bit easier to bear. Killing Nadia, though… I can see the narrative value of it, how having Ramona’s inability to just let her go be the very thing that later brings Ramona down, and how through that Nadia gets the ultimate revenge on her… (“Please, Thony. Get her for us. For Arman”) but stiiiilllll. The writers could have absolutely found another way for Thony and Jorge to bring Ramona down while still letting Nadia escape with her life– death is not the only way to write out a character!. But then again, I guess this show has always been about the price that comes with going to whatever lengths necessary to protect one person (and also the consequences of getting in over your head in a world you don’t understand), so Nadia apparently had to become yet another hard lesson for Thony to learn… I just wish that the writers could have stopped at Marco and Maya for that lesson, rather than taking Garrett, Arman, and Nadia from us too. Sighhhh. 

But ugh I really did love elements of this ep… Nadia and Fi becoming instant besties was so important to me ugh. And Nadia getting to be hugged by Fi, who was yet another person who genuinely wished her well and cared what happened to her, like Thony? She deserved that. And I’m so glad those guys finally got to act together, even if it felt like an even sadder goodbye after that

Honestly, Nadia and Thony and Fi just being SO done with Jeremy was a highlight in this ep lol. Thony referring to him as ‘a stupid undercover’ right in front of him. Jeremy offering for Nadia to move to Utah or Oregon and asking where she would rather be, and her responding “Dead. But for real.” (As someone who has been to every US state, that one definitely got a loud laugh lol). Fi’s rant at Jeremy was also amazing, and lol Thony “She had a few things to say, I didn’t want to interrupt” hahahahaaa. Honestly Jeremy sucks so bad and I want him gone like immediately, but at least his presence this season has meant some excellent opportunities for hilarious snarkiness from these women. I also felt very satisfied about how grumpy he was for most of the ep because he views himself as the good guy and yet these women clearly see him as the villain, and plus he kept getting the feeling he was being played but still wasn’t able to catch them at it. Getting outsmarted by these civilians again hey buddy? That’s a little embarrassing for you lol

I have been wanting Luca and Violeta to be friends since we first saw her, and I love that they immediately started happily playing together, but omg their hide and seek game was so goddamn stressful. Thony’s panic was so palpable I could hardly watch ughhhhhh 

Ugh Thony telling Fi about how she almost let Ramona die… that acknowledgment of the darkness that she’s learned she’s capable of… her needing the FBI to lock Ramona up because if they don’t, she’s afraid that next time she gets the chance to make Ramona pay with her life, she’ll take it…. I just love seeing her growing and changing as a character, and I love that her experiences through the seasons have made her understand Arman more and more. They were similar in a lot of ways, and understood each other to such a deep level, and ugh it was such a gift to watch *sobs*

Jorge tells Ramona that his partnership with Nadia “wasn’t like that” (aka had no romantic element), and tbh I believe him? He saw in her someone whose ambition and drive matched his own, and who had the skills and assets to help build his dream. He saw the opportunity she represented, and he also saw it as a chance to look out for one of the women his nephew loved, just like he looks out for Thony (honestly I think he intended to bring Thony in on the hotel development as well, which is why he deliberately got her to come to his office while the investor guy was there discussing the plans). And idk man, maybe this is just the Ace in me talking, but just because two people are attractive and get along well and find support in each other does not automatically mean they wanna hook up!?? I know TV show writers do often tend to go for the romantic/sexual angle when they have two single characters of different genders interacting a lot, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to do that in every situation, especially when it wouldn’t make sense in the circumstances (like in this case!). Tbh Jorge and Nadia’s connection (and Jorge and Thony’s) is just as compelling without the romantic element– for people to care about each other and support each other without it being tied to their desire for sex? That’s special and interesting in its own way. And who knows, maybe either of these two relationships would have had the potential to develop into something romantic in the future, but in the current moment it would make zero sense when both Nadia and Thony are brokenhearted and grieving the man they loved.  But anyway though, I gotta say I really appreciated Jorge for not hesitating to keep Nadia and Thony’s secret from Ramona, and for sending such a huge amount of money to help Nadia be free (how many people would have just let go of $40 million like that, when they could have kept it for themselves without any consequences??). Letting go of both Nadia and the money meant risking his hotel dream falling apart, but he did it anyway, and I respect him so much for that. 

Other stuff

Ugh Thony sitting in Jeremy’s lair, watching his video feeds of her family’s home… seeing all that must have felt like such a violation. No wonder she joins Fi in smashing the cameras after lol

Some of the scene choices in this ep were hilarious, like Nadia apparently going from arguing with Thony (at the end of last ep) to somehow passing out on the couch again lol. And then when she wakes (again) and they argue (again), Thony has her own little rant and then storms off… but just goes and sits on the couch in full view of the others? Like the writers could at least have had her go into the other room lol, which is what most people would do after an argument like that?

Oh man, the scene where Thony goes and gets the money out of the safe was so stressful, worrying if she was about to be caught any second... and it was also hard to see her in that office and remember all the moments she shared with Arman there. That space used to mean so much and now it must feel so empty ughhhhhh

Awww, Chris calling Paolo ‘Dad’, and then the very parental discussion where Paolo calls Chris out on the way he talks to Fi, just like a true dad would? I love that for them

Chris and Camila are so cute but damn the whole thing with them nearly getting caught by ICE was so damn stressful!!! This show has no consideration of my poor nerves lol

Was so happy to see the return of Samantha! I love that she is always down to help them screw over the FBI lol. A true ally 

Had the sudden realisation while watching this ep that the actor playing Jeremy also played Toby, Channing Tatum’s friend in the movie She’s The Man, and it honestly blew my mind. He was such a baby then!!!

[idealisticrealism]

Hi! I don't know if you're still looking for people to discuss The Cleaning Lady with. But here are my thoughts, let me know what you think. I think if Adan hadn't passed, they would be setting up a love triangle with Jorge, and he would've been the catalyst to make Arman act on his feelings for Thony. I wouldn't mind Thony and Jorge getting together. I think the show needs some romance. This is controversial, but I think they should consider recasting Arman rather than killing him off.

Hey! I'm always down to discuss TCL, so thanks for the Ask! I think you're right about the original plan for the Arman/Thony/Jorge 'triangle' happening to make Arman act on his feelings. I don't think there ever would have been a question in Thony's mind about who she would choose, but obviously Arman couldn't know that for sure, and just seeing Jorge's interest in her (and realising that Jorge and Thony could actually make a good match) would have likely been enough to push him to do something about it. I think that's also why ep 1 had the scene of Nadia buying a house for herself alone, not to share with Arman, because the writer's plan was for Arman to come back and for Nadia to see that his feelings for Thony were never going to go away, and so she leaves him.

Tbh, it hurts my pride a little to say it, but I've also reached a point where I wouldn't mind Thony and Jorge together either-- but only as a theoretical concept a couple of years into the future, not during the course of the show. The timeframe is just too short; for example, the 4 episodes of this season have taken place over FIVE DAYS. Arman has only been missing for FIVE DAYS. If the eps don't start having bigger gaps, this entire season will happen over barely more than 2 weeks. So while I'm fine with Thony and Jorge developing some kind of 'friendship' over the course of the season (something that ep 4 is certainly setting them up for), I would be incredibly disappointed in the writers and their choices if they had the two of them develop a romance so ridiculously fast and also while Arman is (as far as they know) still alive and missing??? It would be a bizarre act on Thony's part and not consistent with her characterisation at all. Plus, the show has never actually been about romance specifically; it has always been about family and the choices that protecting her family leads Thony to make. The Armony romance was always just a bonus, so I doubt they're going to turn around and suddenly try to push a new romance plotline when there's other more thematically-aligned stories to tell.

As for the idea of recasting; I can absolutely see where you're coming from, and it's fair enough! But personally, I know that I absolutely couldn't deal with a recasting. Arman was/is one of my favourite characters of all time, and for me there is simply no Arman without Adan, without the face and the voice and the hearteyes and all the little things that are just such an inherent part of the character in my mind. Not to mention that Adan and Elodie's chemistry was just on another level, and I don't think the show could ever recreate that with another actor. So as much as it hurts, having Arman die is the only real option in my mind (though @enigmaticfox has posed an interesting theory about Arman being rescued alive but having to immediately leave Vegas/go underground forever in order to avoid the FBI etc). But honestly however the writers do it, I just hope that they do it in a way that honours both Arman and Armony.

Anyways that's enough rambling from me now. If anyone else wants to weigh in here, they're absolutely welcome haha

[idealisticrealism]

Yet another reblog because the thoughts about this show just never stop lol. So @igetthebag here's the answers to your latest questions, enjoy.

About the cast photos: honestly, seeing them actually made me feel a little happy because it feels like I'm getting my 'family' back. And I liked seeing Nadia placed on the side with the De La Rosa family rather than on the side with the new villains, plus I also liked the symbolism of Thony leading Luca in the direction of their family. I honestly didn't even really register the absence of Adan/Arman in the photos because I never saw any of the S1 or S2 promo shoots with him in them (did they even do any?), and plus my mind is just so aware of his loss that I never expected to see him in it anyway, so surprisingly it didn't make me sad for that reason.

As for Fi being behind Thony, maybe that's to symbolise her being the 'angel on Thony's shoulder/voice of reason', or to symbolise the distance between her and Thony while she's stuck in The Philippines? I think it is going to be hard to have her as involved in the season as usual because most of her scenes will have to be phone or video calls with Thony and the kids, though maybe Fi's parents will make a reappearance and we'll see her repairing her relationship with them. Also one of the new cast members is based in The Philippines so hopefully that means we'll get to see a few scenes over there. And though the actor looks a bit young for it, it would be cool if he turned out to be the one night stand that resulted in Chris-- I would love to see Fi encounter that guy again and how she'd deal with that. But anyway of course, the whole point is to get her home to Vegas, so hopefully that can happen before too late in the season so we can have more scenes of her at home with the fam and being badass with Thony.

Regarding JD, I think he'll still be around to be involved in the process of getting Fi back/being the other adult looking after the kids when Thony is Busy Doing Crime, and also to provide a bit of continuity given all the cast changeover. I personally hope he's going to be in it because he's a very sweet dad, does have lovely chemistry with Fi (I agree that didn't get the time it deserved but I also don't think it was too rushed, given their history as two people who were genuinely in love with each other when they had to part), and also I feel he's very important in that he really calls Thony out on her shit and doesn't let her try to justify her way out of anything; he makes her truly face the consequences of her actions and I think she needs people like that.

I get that a lot of people were disappointed with S2, but honestly I loved it; to me it narratively made so much sense for Thony and Arman to have to step back from each other physically given the situation with Nadia and the pressure that all their lives were under. In 1x06 their lives were actually in a relatively positive/safe/uncomplicated place except for Luca being sick (Arman had control of the guns and Hayak hadn't yet discovered his plans, the FBI weren't considered a threat anymore, Marco wasn't around yet) so their attraction to each other was able to really take over. Then in 1x08, they were far away from all their problems and their spouses, letting themselves forget everything else while they danced by the firelight... it was like they got to step outside their real lives for a while, and got to briefly live the fantasy instead. And even in 1x10 with the handholding and the making doe eyes at each other over the table, they had just triumphed over both the FBI and Hayak, so despite the whole prison thing, life was in a good place. Season 2 took that away from the characters, made them face new challenges and ratcheted up the possibility of imprisonment or death to be basically constant with no real reprieve. In my opinion, the Armony we got despite all that was actually amazing, with the way that they continually showed up for each other and protected each other (and stared longingly at each other), despite not having the freedom to act on the romantic feelings between them. And as for him sleeping with Nadia in 2x08 while Thony was left completely alone... idk man, from everything we saw of his behaviour around that situation I don't think he had a good time with that 'reconciliation' at all. In some ways I felt even more sorry for him than I did for Thony, because even though it hurt to see her alone and afraid like that, at least she wasn't forced into basically pimping herself out and betraying everyone she cares about, like he literally was in that ep. But anyway, watching S2, I really felt it was building to an incredible S3 where we'd get that hard-won resolution of that distance that they'd been forced to keep, and they would finally be free to have more of that romantic/physical connection again. Now that we know about Adan's illness, though, I can't help but wonder if the writers were actually deliberately widening that distance between Armony physically/romantically because they were aware that Arman was always going to need to be killed off in S3 and replaced with another male lead. But since we'll never know for sure, I'm choosing to stick with my version anyway.

I was so intrigued by you saying that all the guys on the show have a thing for Thony- JD, for one, can barely tolerate her lol, and is smitten with Fi; Hayak nearly killed her and then otherwise stopped giving a shit about her; Kamdar did seem to admire her but more for her skills and cleverness than in anything resembling a romantic way, plus he was obsessed with Nadia romantically; and as for Garrett, I was so surprised to hear that people ever saw that as a love triangle??? Like first off, the man clearly has a thing for blondes, and though I'll admit he did genuinely come to care for Thony, I never saw any indication that it was romantic? Plus Thony literally hated his guts until well after she fell for Arman???? She eventually did care for Garrett, of course, but like in a sibling kind of way- someone you want to punch in the face half the time, but who you are also protective of because you've been through a lot together, and who you want to live a happy life somewhere that you don't have to see them every day lol. Like yes they did deliberately introduce Garrett's son a few eps into S1, but I think that was to make his character more nuanced; Garrett is a dick who emotionally torments Thony and abuses his power over her, but he's also an affable dad who loves his kids and makes silly jokes and is doing everything he can to put away dangerous criminals. (Plus, him having a son around Luca's age made him more likely to be sympathetic and lenient towards Thony). Garrett was complicated, like every other character, and I always felt he existed not to be a love rival for Arman, but to be his foil in the story itself; Arman is the 'bad guy' who is the hero in this story, and Garrett is the 'good guy' who is in many ways the villain. (Also, yes, his relationship with Russo was so uncomfortable because they literally hooked up like less than 2 weeks after Maya was killed. There were hints of their attraction to each other from early S1 but still they went from 'hints' to 'hooking up in a bar bathroom' really damn fast. But I guess the writers needed to strengthen their connection to allow for Russo to offer to help Thony in memory of him after his death, not that that ended up working out anyway, but maybe it'll come into play in S3 somehow)

Okay lastly, about the idea that they may be trying to 'recreate' the love story from scratch with Jorge... I definitely see what you're onto there (as we've said, the similarities between him and Arman are striking), but I really just don't see how it could possibly work. At the start of S1, Thony had just spent years bound to a man she could no longer trust, who continually prioritised himself over her and Luca. Then, she meets Arman, who saves her life at their first meeting, and then saves Luca's (and hers again) within days of knowing her, and who despite being powerful and influential, listens to her and respects her and values her. Yes, sometimes in the early days he was harsh towards her, but he always made an effort to apologise with his actions, and he proved time and again that he would protect her, that he would help her, that he cared for her, and that he would put her and Luca above even his own interests. Thony fell hard and fast for him because after everything he did for her and Luca, she trusted him completely; that trust was vital for opening up her heart. So for the writers to try to make her fall in love with Jorge, a man she doesn't know or trust and who seems to immediately put her in a dire situation... it just wouldn't make sense. Especially not when she would still be either currently searching for Arman or mourning his loss. I could maybe see the writers building towards a romance with him if they spend this whole season making him into someone Thony can rely on and start to genuinely connect with, and then only aim to get to the romance itself in mid-late S4... but even then it still feels super unrealistic. The show's timeline just moves too fast (each season happens over a total of 4-6 weeks of in-universe time) for her to get over her love for Arman and develop feelings for someone else, and plus Jorge is definitely seeming like a villain type/may have something to do with Arman's death, which means that him and Thony would just never make sense. Tbh while I pretty much always choose my shows exclusively because of the shipping potential, I would be very supportive of the writers letting Thony not have a romance arc after this, and instead letting the show focus on the other kinds of relationships in her life, plus her own individual growth as a character.

Anyway, that was many many words, so I'm gonna cut it off there haha. I hear there's a new trailer out though, so I'm off to watch it and see how many new thoughts it provokes lol. Thanks again for speculating with me!

Well, I'm glad I've reached a point where I can watch this and actually feel eager to have the show back, and interested about what's going to happen next... but I don't know, some of the latest info about all these new characters etc is making me feel weird all over again.

Literally from the moment I started watching this show in S1, I just always assumed it would be, at most, a 3 season show-- and then after losing Adan, I was so sure that they meant to complete the story with this season and let it end there. I want it to end there. I want the resolution of Arman's arc and the culmination of Thony's to stop at the same place, because if the show continues on (like some of Miranda Kwok's recent comments make it feel like is their plan) then it will mean that Arman is left behind. That he was only a temporary part of the story, and not laced throughout it from start to finish-- because even despite his death this season, I feel sure that he is still going to very much be a part of its story, as central to the events of the season and as vital to Thony's arc as Fiona is. But if they're going for a season 4 or even beyond, the plot will move on without him, and I just don't know if I could face that, not when he (and his connection with Thony) was the very thing that drew me to the show in the first place.

Anyway, if you have thoughts, I'd like to hear them; honestly I'd like any chance to talk about this show, to speculate like we used to, because I think it's the only thing that's going to make this coming season any easier to bear.