#the starklings are all viserys ii

[hollowwhisperings]

My memories on the Starks & Lannisters of the Dance are very hazy, largely amounting to "Lannister Turncloaks, Starks were Team Black, Cregan Stark Scared KL into Lawful Neutrality". So while I can't add onto the Generational Parallels, I CAN see Other Character Parallels:

Jaime Lannister is in a VERY SIMILAR POSITION to Ser Criston Cole: Jaime, as a Knight Nerd, WOULD KNOW THIS.

HotD's portrayal of the Dance as a Lesbian Divorce Drama has blessed us with Alicent Hightower as the "Anti-Cersei": women who fulfil nigh-identical functions within the narrative (as-history-remembers it) but for very opposite reasons.

Daenerys is the easiest "Rhaenyra" but Daenerys isn't there for the War of the Five Kings: she's Busy Elsewhere.

The "Rhaenyra" role is not as neatly found as her contemporary "Criston" (Jaime), "Alicent" (Cersei) & "Aegon II" (Joffrey) counterparts but, overall, it's actually Ned Stark who fulfils her "role" as Rallying Point for ASOIAF's "Team Black". That Ned is a secretly treasonous dead man hilariously makes him even more suited to be the "Rhaenyra" of this latest Civil War, Martyrs of History as won by the war's sole survivors (AKA Ned's kids & his belatedly reformed enemies).

Ned was also (kind of?) Jaime's personal Cregan Stark at the end of [Ned's] Rebellion, the civil war prior to TWOTFK (which is technically Still Happening), and Dany is more accurately represented in that war (...as its Absent Viserys II).

Jaime, lifelong Knight Nerd, knows well the eerie resemblance he has taken to Ser Criston Cole: abetter in unlawful succession, Commander of the sitting Queen Dowager's armies but having sworn loyalty to the opposing Queen Dowager (Catelyn). In some ways, Jaime can be made into a contemporary Prince Daemon with Cersei as King Rhaenyra: this aligns with the Maesters' view of the Dance but HotD's Take on Alicent Hightower as the Anti-Cersei makes me enjoy how much she & Cersei have "Functioned" within the narratives of their Respective Succession Crises (i.e. starting & perpetuating them) and thusly members of "Team Green".

Jaime's character development has not actually gotten to "redemption" yet but his having one would drastically affect how this civil war will end: Bran vibes very much as a "Viserys II" (second sons long assumed dead, hope spots to their few surviving family members) though most of the surviving Starklings could (or already have) acted as Historic Peacemakers between Long Estraged Peoples.

Jon made peace between the NW & the freefolk, only to Die Mysteriously; Arya makes friends with anyone & everyone who is considered an "outsider" or "lesser class"; marriage to Sansa Stark is one of the easiest ways to unite Kingdoms, providing her existing [child] marriage to Tyrion is annulled); Bran or Jon could feasibly "resolve" the Conflict between the Others & everyone else peacibly (hopefully without twin marriage pacts between Ruling Families, given that all the Starklings save Jon are children).

Given how implicitly connected Jaime's Future is to that of Bran's, his "role" as Criston Cole will play out very differently (if only in Motivation) and that's without accounting for how Fellow Knight Nerd, Brienne, is implicitly tied to the Stark Sisters: Jaime and Brienne would both Know the precedents set in the Dance by Ser Criston (for good & ill); how devastating his Kingmaking was on the Realm & for such a unanimously misliked King; and how easily the children left surviving can & would be used by Lords scrambling for power upon most of their Political Competition wiping each other out. Brienne's surviving Winds would require Jaime to Start Redeeming Himself more seriously, lest her experiences turn her into another jaded "Sandor" (which Jaime, who sees his Younger & Innocent Self in Brienne, does not actually want).

Ultimately, the amount of intergenerational parallels of abuse & violence in ASOIAF, alongside its Thesis of "War Is Horrific", make it likely that this generation of Lannisters and Starks and "Targaryens" will Learn from the mistakes of their predecessors & actively "end" these Cycles of violence. Melting The Uncomfortable Chair seems a given but it's the Logistics of recovery that most interest me: Jaime is likely to be the Oldest Person at any peace talks (give or take Doran, the Blackfish, a Sand Snake or two, some of Robb's Loyalists, etc) having been "Too Unlucky To Die", and being Punished to Live, do Community Service & Babysit the survivors of his enemies.

In contrast, Tyrion seems very, very difficult to Redeem: he started as a "good guy", his traumas & his power grabs leading him further past Moral Ambiguity and into Gleeful Villainy. Tyrion's pride would have to suffer a horrific fall or his "success" come at an awful price (e.g. baby Tommen's life &/or King's Landing, a fellow Outcast he Actually Likes being gratuitously [Fridged], "reuniting" with his Even More Traumatised Child Bride & her Inevitable Rejection of him bc CHILD BRIDE).

Tyrion is an Adult in this setting, just like Jaime or Jorah or Jon Connington: they all have Fixations that drive them, traumas that shaped them, varyingly valid justifications for villainy (i am looking at YOU, Jorah)... and they are all have had (or are being set up to hold) Power over much younger characters, orphaned & desperately seeking a Mentor who won't Betray nor Attempt Romance With Them.

Cersei has never been "redeemable" (RIP Melara Hetherspoon) but she is capable of Genuine Goodness... probably (unintentionally? she's a Narcissist: selfless heroics is not her strong suit). I'm uncertain how willing she would be to "change" her "fate" as The Anti-Alicent in a Dance/2nd Conquest/Long Night/War of ?? Queens. Maybe she'll accept Myrcella as her "younger, more beautiful" usurper & realise she Doomed Herself (& countless others but pshht, Lions Care Not The Wellbeing Of [Antelopes]).

Hopefully Bran will be an Anti-Brynden - I made a meta post on "Jojen is Fine, Actually" but its focus was on all the ways Bran is being made into a new Brynden, his only Escape requiring External Influences (Meera with a Lighter; Jojen with Big Sad Eyes; Suddenly A Benjen; un/dead Jon or Catelyn; Meera with a flamethrower; realising he's eating Brynden Paste & that he keeps Breaking Those Taboos Man Must Never Break; Meera with a flintstone axe AND a lighter, etc). Uh. Meera is Kind Of Essential to the survival of Team Cave Kids? Bran just needs to Recognise that & stop seeing her as his Designated Love Interest (she's considered an Adult in their setting, being of age with Jon, & Bran isn't even 10 yet) but his Designated Adult. Meera's motivation is Jojen, Jojen's is Bran, Bran's was "flying" but then the Tree Cult started giving him narcotic Brynden Paste... it's little wonder GRRM is putting off Winds: his lack of Timeskip has severely limited his options in getting the primary cast within each other's geography, let alone realising their common plotlines.

Coldhands, Suddenly A Benjen, Ghost, Melissandre or Suddenly A Giant/Mammoth are kind of GRRM's only options to get Team Cave Kids out of slow & eldritch deaths. If Dany somehow beats Bran to Westeros, I would struggle to understand how he had even survived that long with the Tree Cult. It would be like Arya actually choosing to stay with the Murder Cult instead of Literally Any Alternative Safe Haven (my silver's on Sam, stopping over at Braavos post/mid-Euronpocalypse).

...but, uh, yes. PARALLELS. Ned would be hyperventilating at all his kids getting cast as Targaryens & at the Kingslayer being positioned to be a Criston Cole in their general direction.

JAIME LANNISTER ENDGAME SPECULATION: #2, "Jaime Goldenhand"

~ DEFINITELY spoilers, both book & That Dragon Show, and some diving into other theories in the ASOIAF theory iceberg ~

2. Jaime "Golden Hand"

- for Jaime's sins, he is "rewarded" with what he has always dreaded but has already demonstrated relative competence at: responsibility.

- We Don't Talk About The Dragon Show but its ending for Tyrion actually steals much from what has been foreshadowed for Jaime: Jaime, who has never wanted nor sought out any power save his sword arm, WOULD feel punished by a sentence of lifelong service to The Realm. His most heroic act made him reviled: his kingslaying was the beginnings of his blatantly undermining the stability of Westeros by cuckolding its king, causing a lasting succession crisis, and unwittingly stirring the winds of war in his recklessness & ignorance.

- furthermore, Jaime serving as BRAN STARK'S Hand? tbh, "King Bran" punishing Jaime by installing him as his Hand not only fits all the foreshadowing in their respective character arcs, it ALSO follows logically from their POV of their interactions' ripple effects unto Westeros. Jaime as Hand to King Bran is the ONLY setup of "Bran becomes king" that makes sense to me outside of "Dystopian Weirwood-Police State" Horror Endings or Jojen's filling the role (i don't subscribe to "Jojen Paste": its memetic status baffles me and, like, the 3EC is LITERALLY BECOMING A TREE? and House Blackwood canonically buries its dead beneath its dead weirwood tree, and WEIRWOODS ARE ALREADY PEOPLE: JOJEN'S ABSENCES ARE ALWAYS MEERA'S ABSENCES ANYWAY- *several more allcaps paragraphs*).

[brydeswhale]

Other fics I would write if I had time and energy:

GOT/ASOIAF:

The one where Jon Arryn gets a midwife to help Lysa during her second pregnancy, who recommends that Lysa go to the Vale so she can at least relax and have clean water and air, and also, WTF is wrong with you, old man, she’s a THIRD your age? Features AU Lysa who did NOT assault Petyr, but got married off bc of rumours, who discovers herself in the Vale, and sets about creating an education system, reforming the Justice system, making alliances and peace with the mountain clans, and generally being a good lady. Also features her visiting winterfell and offering to foster Sansa when her sister expected her to offer to take Arya, but, like, for real? No, I will take the nice one who reads, and I strongly recommend a younger, more active teacher for this one. Also features Lysa being fat and happy with it.

The one where Theon’s mother summons the Mither O’The Sea(of Orkney religious practices) to retrieve her son as Baratheon’s ships depart, who not only retrieves Theon, but sets up a barrier around the Iron Islands. Features a realistic culture for the Iron Islands, with cliff climbing and whale hunting. Also commentary on Westerosi colonialism.

The one where Joffrey is a nice kid, but it ends badly anyhow. Features TRAGEDY.

The one where the Dothraki are more realistic and Khal Drogo’s reaction to meeting Danaerys is “dude, she’s ELEVEN”, so he quickly switches the wedding ceremony to a “swearing to be eternal siblings” and takes Danaerys home to his mom all, “new kid, mom, bye”. Features Dany NOT hatching dragons, living a long happy life with her adoptive family, while Drogo goes to Westeros and loses the battle “by accident”, returning home with a wife his OWN age, and lots of sweets.

The one where Elia lives, Rhaenys lives, but Aegon dies. Features Queen Regent Elia making peace with the realm, Robert making better choices and supporting her, while Tywin Lannister conspires with Viserys across the sea. Features Elia concerned about the threat Jon poses to Rhaenys, Oberyn causing problems on purpose, and a very pointed comment on the Lannisters being too corrupt for words.

The one where the Starklings are born backwards, with Rickon as the eldest and wildest. Features a distinct wildness, sisters being valued, and vows being honoured and broken.

ASOIAF/Disney crossover:

The reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because what lies in the far North isn’t the Night King or his minions. The North is Arendelle, thousands of years in the future. As long as someone in Anna’s bloodline resides in Winterfell, Elsa sleeps, knowing the treaty they forged together will be honoured. This is a secret that Rickard Stark failed to pass down to his children in time. Now there is no Stark in Winterfell, and a wild winter storm is headed for the Wall. Featuring evil trolls, good Elsa, and a dragon being frozen in mid-air.

Disney’s Frozen II

The one where Else isn’t born with white hair and blue eyes, but looking more like the Northuldra. When Anna’s accident happens, their mother, seeing how her husband looks at Elsa when the trolls speak, knows that he intends to imprison her and possibly have a tragic accident. So she wraps Elsa in her shawl and takes her to the enchanted forest, pushing her through the barrier alone when they both can’t cross. Features Anna growing up as heir to the throne, her father’s beloved daughter, while her mom is kept secluded in a tower, Elsa being raised amongst the Northuldra, learning to control her powers much earlier and better, and inevitable drama and sorrow.

I think that’s it.

[atopvisenyashill]

@allyriadayne i guess i just don’t see the point to it? unless it’s an exploration of like, how you actually don’t need any valyrian blood to ride a dragon, but u could easily do that with a aegon blackfyre theory bc how ~targaryen~ are they really atp (but how ~targaryen~ is even dany atp? like yeah she has magic, but modern targs are mostly andal atp so lol). but i feel like all the dragon imagery surrounding tyrion is more about how he’s going to align with basically every ~blood of the dragon~ claimant left alive politically rather than riding a dragon. esp w the viserys ii (whose egg didn’t even hatch) and corlys (who wasn’t a dragonrider) parallels, i think i’ve become more convinced that tyrion will get to play that close advisor role he so desperately wants to play, and he’ll do it for both young griff AND dany and probably jon/the starklings as well, even if only for a brief period of time.

this is one point i’m willing to be wrong though, it’s another “this is what’s more satisfying for me” thing. i guess tyrion as a dragon rider for me is about tyrion hoping and wishing and praying that He Gets To Be The Special One instead of the freak and that wish being granted. no matter how badly everything turns out, he can cling to the fact that he was one of the last dragon riders (or one of the first in a resurgence of them ig?). whereas tyrion remaining just as he is - a shrewd political mind with lofty ambitions - really lets him explore his own statement on being “tywin writ small” for all the bad and good that comes with that assessment of himself. dangerously & ruthlessly flipping from claimant to claimant and still coming out alive and on top, really proving that he IS his father’s son before everything catches up with him. but imo, he still ends up alive and it’s HIS BLOOD sitting on the lannister lands, like lann the clever, kind of proving that he is both the trickster version of a lannister and the weird supremacist version of one. it’s like tyrion getting a dragon lets him continue to delude himself vs tyrion aligning with the dragons forces him to interact with the legacy of both his house and himself.

i’ve decided to become a “aegon will claim rhaegal, the dragon named for his father, partially as a way to cement his claim against dany/the lannisters, and if jon claims a dragon at all it will be viserion as a narrative tool to get him to explore his feelings on being both aegon’s bastard baby brother and his feelings towards now being technically a cousin to the rest of the starklings when he has centered his identity around being their brother & ned stark’s son for so long” truther, and i can’t lose here bc we’ll never get another book anyway. check and mate suckers!