#the spinaraki of it all

[stillness-in-green]

I always disliked Shigaraki's initial answer to Spinner's rant in ch.220 because it gave me the distinct impression that he didn't actually have anything to say in response to his warranted concern about where they were going from here (besides restating that Kurogiri's gone, so deal with it). So I was pleasantly surprised to read your MVA in Memoriam post clarify that the Jap. ver. of his response was different. Though it's a little unclear how so besides referencing a line he'd use later.

Hey there, @bringbestintentionwhen! I got both this and your direct message asking for a fuller explanation about the rest of how Shigaraki starts his response to Spinner, which I'm happy to detail and then theorize about. Let me provide both a scan of the scene in question and just a bit of preambulatory repetition of stuff from my other post to establish context for other readers and get the part you already know out of the way.

This is the entirety of what Shigaraki gets out before Machia arrives; romanized, the Japanese would read, Dakara…  Ji… Ji is the first syllable of jigoku, “Hell”, and what I assume Spinner is remembering when he flashes back to this moment after Shigaraki’s grandiose promise to Ujiko, which leads with the same syllable.  (There, Shigaraki says, Jigoku kara tengoku made, lit. “From Hell all the way to Heaven.”)

As to the Dakara, my trusty reference Jisho gives several possible translations depending on whether it’s leading the sentence or being used as a conjunction; Caleb’s translation, above, is perfectly acceptable and naturalistic for the situation.  A literalistic translation, something that could kind of get across the gist (even if it’s hella clunky) no matter where you put it in a sentence, might be, “That’s why,” but for a sentence-opener like Shigaraki’s using above, “Like I already said,” or, “Like I told you before,” are the sentiment dakara is putting across—it’s an emphasis word for restatement, more or less.

Of course, as you may be thinking, Shigaraki hasn’t said anything like that before.  His “Hell to Heaven” line to Ujiko is for sure the first time he’s said anything like that!  So what is he getting at there?

I checked with my usual go-to for minutiae about Shigaraki’s early scenes in the manga (the ever-reliable @codenamesazanka) and neither of us could remember anything in particular that Shigaraki said prior to this moment that his Dakara here could really be a callback to.  He certainly hadn’t articulated that level of scorched earth approach before in front of Spinner!  He did tell Stain, way back when, that he wanted to destroy All Might and the society that worshiped him, but the boldest statement of purpose he’d given the League up through Chapter 220 came circa Overhaul: The next kings will be us.

So is it something in the scene itself, then?  I only see two things that he could really be intending to reiterate with that, “Like I said”: his earlier answer that they’re going to keep going like they’re going until they “finish”—that being his answer when Spinner first started questioning him, before Dabi got back—or a repetition that they’re looking for the Doctor.  Neither is real substantial, of course—either one would be better than just stressing that Kurogiri’s gone, which I don’t think was his intention, but neither would they present a concrete answer to Spinner’s concern.  So based just on the, “Like I said,” a dislike of the non-answer would be a pretty fair read!

With that said, though, there is one last thing in Shigaraki’s talk bubbles that we could look at other than just the words, and that’s the modulation implied by the punctuation.  Notice in the picture above that the Japanese gives Shigaraki ellipses in both talk bubbles, while the English translation copies the first ellipsis but changes the second into an em-dash.  That’s a pretty important distinction!  In English usage, an ellipsis would mean Shigaraki trailed off before the earth-shaking rumbling started, whereas the em-dash indicates the rumbling interrupted whatever he was going to say and he broke off.  C.Cook has not been the most slavishly accurate retainer of crucial punctuation in the world, but I also wasn’t sure if the ellipses/em-dash distinction was as clear-cut in Japanese.  To get some insight on that, I turned to my Translator Sis.

What she said was that the em-dash is not something you see much of in most manga—typically, the ellipses serves the purposes of both, leaving some potential ambiguity which readers (and translators!) have to just make their best guesses about based on the surrounding context/characterization.  What we have with that in mind is a talk bubble that nothing interrupted but that still contained a noticeable pause (otherwise there’d be no punctuation at all), followed by a talk bubble that gets overrun by the SFX—I’d say Cook’s punctuation gets that across!

I want to point chiefly, then, to that first pause.  Shigaraki was taking Spinner’s complaints seriously in that scene, I think.  He didn’t raise his hand or his voice to threaten, and his gaze during Spinner’s rant were very level and controlled.  Whatever he started to say, he broke off saying it and then started over before the walking calamity showed up.  The first ellipsis indicates this hesitation; combined with the fact that he’d never brought up Hell before such that he could smoothly reiterate it with that Dakara, I think that Shigaraki was actually about to spring the Hell line (or one similar to it, anyway) on Spinner.

As to how he was going to frame it to answer Spinner’s challenge, that, I can’t say.  I doubt it would have been the same, “I’ll show it to you,” he gave Ujiko, but maybe it would have been, “I’ll expose it,” or, “We’ll tear it all down,” something to echo Spinner’s talk of emptiness with a promise of an empty world—which, of course, he would take the first step to delivering in the vast crater that waits on the other end of the arc.

So, a lot of it’s open to interpretation!  Readers, Japanese or English, wouldn’t have had any way to know what Shigaraki was about to say in 220 when it came out; indeed, I imagine Cook had to just take a wild guess at a Japanese word that started with ji[1] and lucked out that he picked something he could smoothly fold into Shigaraki’s later line.  (The official English is “Heaven and hell both.”  That’s the case both online and in print, so if Cook didn’t get lucky, then the online version’s been retroactively changed to fit.  Uncommon, I gather, but it's been known to happen.)

Spinner’s the narrator in MVA, so it’s totally fair, and possibly even intentional, for you (the specific you, bringbest, as well as the general readership you) to be in his shoes of being frustrated by Shigaraki’s vagary.  To put it mildly, Shigaraki is not the best communicator in the world!  But just because he often fails to articulate his intentions well to his followers[2] doesn’t mean he doesn’t have things straight in his head.

Thanks for the ask!

1: I did not go all the way to the point of checking to see what else Shigaraki said in 220 that started with ji that Cook might have been leaning on or that Japanese readers could have made assumptions about.  Mea culpa.  Jiji, “old man,” does, and it’s the only word I know of that would fit if you assume Cook intended “He” as a stand-alone, complete word rather than a first syllable of an incomplete one.                 I don’t know how Shigaraki refers to Ujiko in the scene—if he ever uses jiji or oji when describing him—but an attentive Japanese reader would recall that they’ve seen the likely personage Shigaraki’s referring to as AFO’s doctor way back in Chapter 59.  So, if there was any assumption in the Japanese readership that Shigaraki was referring to a particular “he” there with his cut-off Ji, it would likely have been the Doctor rather than Kurogiri, who I’m pretty sure Shigaraki does not ever refer to as an ojisan at any level of formality.

2: See also his exchanges with Stain about conviction, with Kurogiri about his plans at the training camp, and with Toga when she and Jin found out they were being loaned to the yakuza.

[smolthealmighty]

[frankenswhy]

Spinaraki Week, day 6: Save

[grimstrawberry]

the alivest, normalest guys

+ nagant as that ben affleck meme

[waddledeedee]

My Hero Academia Ships as Ship Dynamics

Part 2! (also just to put it out there I don't necessarily ship all of these dynamics but I wanted to give some goods for those who do <3 if it fits it fits yknow? hehe)

Bakudeku

Neither of them are normal! each other's freaks have been outmatched by the other so I'm forced to admit !

Shigadeku

everyone across the planet collectively begins violently sobbing together

Dabihawks

No explanation needed here I don't think (dabihawks fans come get ur dudes)

Tododeku

This is literally them they are so soft ur honor

Spinneraki

Average morning at the LOV hideout

Todobaku

Literally them in the first movie idk what else u expect me to see

EndMight

Sorry pal ur never catching up to him I'm afraid LMAOOOOOOOOO (insert that one mental image of endeavor crashing out on the cliffside)

Bonus: Aizawa and Midnight

I'm sorry I saw this and I thought this was fucking hilarious (and perfect) LMFAOOOOOO

[jamiethebeeart]

Spinaraki Week Day 4: Oh I just realized they're sleeping and one of the themes is Dream.... lmao I was going off of Home (like the feelings of home and peacefulness).

[sadlittleratboy]

I think Deku and Shigaraki should have had to share a body. It would be hilarious, and also like...show Deku's real dedication. He stops Shigaraki, but wait! Fuck! Shigaraki is dying! But of course Shigaraki has One for All so if he just gave it back Izuku could keep him close so THEY could be a hero for the villains.

Then you have Izuku translating for Tomura but trying to say it nicer lol. Also he would get decay so that would be cool (and then decay could level up and have the healing side like Overhaul's quirk and fix the league).

Then sometimes every now and then Shigaraki could get fed up and take over to say something spiteful and quippy, and maybe we see Deku adopt Tomura's bitch face with kisses eyes and all. That would have been fun.

Instead we got this fucking nightmare.

[codenamesazanka]

AU where Spinner and Shigaraki both knows Japanese Sign Language. Fragmented excerpts.

•

The moment the Stain cosplayer appeared in the room, Tomura knew there was going to be a problem.

Kurogiri knew this too, which was why he leaned towards Tomura and murmured, “Please allow him a chance.”

“Shut up,” Tomura said. “I know.”

He had decided to use all aspects of Stain - his image, his popularity, his philosophy - for his own ends. That still didn’t mean Tomura liked the guy one bit. That he had to tolerate any mention of Stain made his neck burn harder with the itch, and in assigning the blame to Stain, made him hate the man even more.

The second problem came when the cosplayer stepped up to him, and Tomura spoke.

“Real name?”

It took a moment for the cosplayer to answer. And when he did…

“I’m Spinner!” Spinner jabbed a thumb at himself. “I’m here to make Stain’s dreams a reality. I live according to his will.”

Tomura gave himself a second to suppress the desire to literally kick Spinner out. Loudly, he bit out his question again. “I said, real name.”

“Oh.” Spinner froze, his shoulders lowering slightly. The pomposity was replaced with guardedness. “Iguchi Shuuichi.”

Weird guy, Tomura thought. The way his bravado faded all of a sudden. He already knew Iguchi - Spinner - was going to be an ostentatious pain-in-the-butt, but the act disappeared much too quickly.

“Quir–” Tomura barely finished the word before Spinner spoke again.

“My quirk is… Gecko. I can climb on anything. My hands and feet can stick to basically any surface.” Spinner touched the sword at the back of his waist. “But I know how to use a knife. I can handle myself in a fight.”

Tomura considered this. Judging by the lack of details, what Spinner said about his quirk was probably the full extent of what he could do. Fighting with a knife was insufficient against most Heroes, but not entirely useless - quite a few Heroes suck at close-range combat. Tomura knew better than anyone - be fast, get close, one touch, one stab - and you’ve got a dead man.

Out of nowhere, Spinner started talking again. “Stain was right about false Heroes! There needs to be a purge. All the Heroes who only care about money, about fame, about their image—”

“No one asked,” Tomura growled. “Shut up.”

But Spinner continued, completely ignoring Tomura. “—weeded out for a True Hero Society. I—”

Tomura lost all his patience. He pointed at the door, and only then did Spinner falter and stop. “That’s it. Get out.”

Spinner looked at the Tomura’s hand, then turn to glance at the door. As if there was any ambiguity in Tomura’s order.

“Shigaraki Tomura,” Kurogiri said. “Look at his ears.”

He doesn’t have any, was Tomura’s first thought. Fitting, because nothing seemed to—

Tomura paused.

While ears - probably would be green and scaly like the rest of Spinner? - didn’t exist, there were something like earbuds on both sides of Spinner’s head. His eye-mask nearly hid them away, but something peach-colored did barely poked out from underneath the mask.

“Huh." Tomura understood. But even if he did, did he really want such an annoying guy around? Someone who couldn't be upfront… but did had the guts to still show up.

Making a decision, Tomura mentally reached into the depths of his head, and pulled out a rusty, shaky skill that he hadn’t used in a while. But it should be enough.

『O-I,』 Tomura fingerspelled, and privately enjoyed the way Spinner’s eyes grew wide and round and huge. 『Can you sign?』

Spinner nodded, just a single, slow nod. 『Yes.』

“Good,” Tomura said, giving a shake of his fist in front of his face. “So get out.”

“Shigaraki Tomura,” Kurogiri said, even though the terrified look on Spinner’s face was funny.

“If he needed to use sign language,” Tomura said, translating everything into movements of hands. “He should’ve said so from the start.”

Spinner regained his bearings, and began to sign too. 『I didn’t think…』 He paused, and started over, this time talking as well. “How was I supposed to know?”

“Write it on a piece of paper then,” Tomura snapped. “You’ve been wasting everyone’s time.”

Kurogiri cut in. “If all misunderstandings have been cleared up, then why don’t we start over?”

Spinner averted his eyes, flushing. The scales on his cheeks can apparently turn slightly pink. “Fine.” Then, with the tightest and tiniest of movements, he signed, 『Sorry.』

“Shut up about Stain too,” Tomura warned. Curling his thumb and index finger, he made a sign, tapping his hand against his shoulder thrice.

“Name?”

…

“How?” Spinner said, while he signed the rest of his question. 『How do you know how?』

Tomura ignored it. “So? Are you deaf?”

“…Hard-of-hearing,” Spinner said as he signed, with much reluctance. “It's my quirk. I have trouble with low voices. Men’s voices in general. Sounds that are too soft.”

“Even with hearing aids?”

“They help, but…” Spinner shrugged. “Not much.”

Tomura glanced at the peach-colored hearing aids. Couldn’t even afford to get ones that match his color.

“Did you hear anything I said?”

“A word here and there.” Spinner frowned. “And you have that– mask, so I can’t see your mouth! I couldn’t read you at all!” He gave Kurogiri a brief look, and Tomura remembered that, yeah, Kurogiri didn’t have a visible mouth. Or any facial features besides his wispy eyes.

In that regard, Kurogiri wasn’t unique. There were heteromorphs who just didn’t have mouths or any means to speak, so they became sign language users. But overall, most sign language users were deaf, and wore implants. And the majority weren’t heteromorphs. So speech and speechreading reigned over pure signing.

The sign language officially taught in Japan had existed since the pre-Advent days, and then some. It largely followed spoken grammar and structure, so it wasn’t too hard matching signs to words, though Spinner sometimes skipped over his spoken words, and had a tendency to just trail off halfway as his hands finished the sentence.

Spinner signed with accents, too. Hokkaido signs popped up here and there, but his main accent was from his claws. His signs were careful, reserved, unwilling to take up too much space. The fists he made were loose; it was his claw tips that touched, rather than his fingertips.

Watching those claws was interesting.

“How do you know sign language?” Spinner asked again, though this time his demeanor was more demanding.

“Multilingualism,” Tomura said.

“Are you also–”

“No, I’m not deaf or hard-of-hearing.” Tomura huffed. “Don’t be so surprised. Hearing people can learn it, you know.”

Tomura moved on. “Spinner. Why do you want to join the League of Villains? Nothing about Stain. Why do you want to join?”

Spinner took his time answering. He looked at his hands, as if reading the scales on his palm and claws at his fingertips. Reading the history of his life recorded upon them.

When he finally looked back at Tomura, it was with no uncertainty, and no false front. Only true conviction. Each sign he made was clear, each word he spoke enunciated.

“I want to change the world.”

…

…

…

Five fingers, and anything he touched got decayed. He pinched things as if he was a germaphobe. He held his consoles with his pinkies sticking out. For a firm and tight grip, he doesn’t use his index finger.

Only when Tomura signs, can he make use of all his fingers.

...

...

...

(Spinaraki occurs, as in canon. Fine, also add a bit more spinaraki. Then jumping alllllllll the way to Act III, at Mt. Fuji)

He touched his left hand to the ground, flat with all five fingers, that was all that's needed—and then indulged the whim to use his right hand as well. But only his index finger: touching the ground where the fingers of his left hand are resting. He drew a line outwards, across the cracking earth. The word; the promise, the dream, finally made real.

The horizon.

Spinner, Tomura thought. It’s here.

•

Notes:

All signs that are described are accurate Japanese Sign Language.

The sign Shigaraki uses for 'name' is Kansai dialect.

••• I headcanon Shigaraki having grown up in Kansai - that's where Jaku and the hospital and the Doc is; where there was once also a town named Shigaraki (different characters tho), in the former Koka district (using the same character as AFO's Koga Construction company...).

irl, lizards have a hearing range of 100Hz and 10kHz. Humans have a range of 20Hz and 20kHz. So people can hear a wider range of pitches than lizards - like low voices. Spinner's quirk is Gecko, so...

In this AU, for a few years after being picked up by AFO, Tenko/Tomura continued to be mute due to trauma. So he was taught JSL.

The sign for horizon in JSL

[gayfortheplot]

Shuuichi and Tomura will literally spend MONTHS building up a Minecraft hardcore world together, putting in hours and hours of effort to make their world look awesome, just for Shuuichi to fall into lava and die and Tomura to jump in afterwards because "I couldn't possibly live on in this world without the love of my life." Shuuichi is so fed up with him. Tomura's already starting a new world.

[the-kinning-hour]

Moulting

Nothing bad has ever happened to them ever. Anyways Tomura likes when Spinner molts, it’s like a trust exercise for Spinner and Tomura gets to pick without hurting himself and actually helps his brofriend in the process. Spinner gets a little awkward and shut-in while he sheds it but Shig finds it very fascinating so he indulges it, because at least he doesn’t have to pick his scales clean himself. It feels a little nice letting his friend handle it. (He’s just a little bit whipped)

[habken]

I need a LOV romantic partner for Natsuo for a fic I'm brainstorming. Shigaraki is already taken as part of the main pairing so I landed on spinner but I'm a bit hesitant?

how do you feel about spinner/natsuo? good? bad? should i change it?

ooh spinner and natsuo would be fun ! I think it has a lot of potential,, also it’s So Rare holy crap, I didn’t look long but I couldn’t find any art of them at all 😭 and there’s four fics in the ao3 tag damn

Be the change !! Ship them so hard ! I feel like they’ve got similar views on stuff and could really get along, I think spinner is very kind and would be a good bf to natsuo and natsuo would be great right back :)

[warship005]

don't mess with his family, I guess

the bit of Spinner with the hand on his face is supposed to reference that sketch of Shigaraki Horikoshi made once

[frankenswhy]

Spinaraki Week, day 3: Horizon

[robotlesbianjavert]

All for One hushes him, all gentle and even. “No, my dear, I should be sorry. It was never my intention for you to see Tomura in such a delicate state. He didn’t hurt you, did he?”

In the aftermath of the raid on the Paranormal Liberation Front and the battle at Jaku, All for One offers Spinner some comfort. (AKA, All for One tries to prove he still has game.)

[jamiethebeeart]

I don't know where all these Spinaraki shippers came from in the last few months but hello hi welcome thanks for being here I love that y'all are here