#the sheer level of mental instability and issues between the two of them is a recipe for disaster

[valiantly-onward]

Harumi part 2

AND ANOTHER THING ABOUT HARUMI AND LLOYD SPECIFICALLY:

In my last post I talked about how Harumi and Lloyd look very similar when it comes to their inner motivations and emotions, but they chose to respond to those things in different ways. They also have similar traumas (thought Lloyd albeit has been through much, much more). Both of them have this desperate need to be loved, to be important, and both grew up feeling trapped by their respective roles - Lloyd to the point that he made it an essential part of the way he views himself, while Harumi learned to despise it and use it for ulterior motives.

Harumi was orphaned at a young age and adopted into a family and a title she didn’t ask for, probably not long after the initial traumatic incident. Just orphaned, suddenly a princess with expectations and duties in a brand new family who maybe didn’t care very deeply for her (we don’t know this for sure, but it was implied, and it’s very possible that the royal family only adopted her because they needed to continue their line, or because they wanted to look good and like they were doing something after the whole Great Devourer situation). I’m not blaming the emperor and empress for any of Harumi’s choices, she made her own choices, but they definitely played into some of her trauma growing up in the palace. We know she felt trapped as a princess, which caused her to stay silent, to stuff her real feelings, and let them fester.

Contrast this with Lloyd, who was essentially orphaned too and adopted into a family where, without warning, he had a role thrust upon him and his childhood ripped out from beneath him - plus a lot of other things. The key difference between these stories is that Lloyd was “adopted” into a strong support system who actually loved him and he felt like he could trust them, whereas Harumi felt like she had no one. But Lloyd is really good at stuffing his real emotions too, and while he’s more free than Harumi was, there are some things he feels like he can’t share.

Cut to the moment these two finally meet, and Harumi starts manipulating him. To be that good of an actor, you have to let genuine moments shine through, otherwise the act won’t be believable. I do think Harumi shared some of her true feelings with Lloyd, and I think he recognized himself in them, which is why he was so drawn to her in the first place. And Harumi probably recognized herself in Lloyd. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Harumi, through all her study of the Garmadon family and Oni and the Green Ninja, realized that she could get to Lloyd, because this person who had indirectly released the Great Devourer and who she hated so much was actually so much like her.

And - bear with me here, this is just a personal headcanon - when they did finally meet, I figure every interaction Harumi had with Lloyd only made her hatred for him grow - I don’t think she fully understood why until later, maybe not even until Crystalized. But Lloyd is living proof that someone can live through what Harumi went through and still come out a good person. Initially she only hated Lloyd for what he did as a kid, but as time went on I think she came to hate him for who he was, and that no matter what she kept throwing at him, he still resisted. And Harumi doesn’t strike me as the self-loathing type when we first meet her, but as she spends more time with Lloyd and especially after the whole saving-a-family situation at the end of Hunted and going evil again after that, I definitely think there’s a sense of self-loathing that she’s developed throughout her arc, and that only feeds the fire of her already-convoluted state of mind (which I desperately hope we get to see in the second half of Crystalized).

Lloyd for his part understands Harumi, because even though Lloyd doesn’t respond to his emotions the same way Harumi does, he absolutely understands what she’s going through. She tells him she wants him to feel the emptiness that she feels, but I think he already feels it. He knows what it’s like to hurt that badly, to lose your family and to need that love and to be important to someone. That’s probably part of the reason why Harumi haunts him for so long after her “death”, not just because of her betrayal and everything she put him through, but because he sees himself in her. He wasn’t able to help her or save her because she wouldn’t allow herself to be helped, and that probably scares him to death.

When it comes down to it, Sons of Garmadon isn’t about Lloyd versus Garmadon, even though there’s so much happening there and so many emotions, but really it’s Lloyd versus Harumi, and both of them versus themselves and what they see of themselves in each other - for Harumi, that it’s possible to stay good under the weight of all that trauma, and for Lloyd that it’s possible for him to break and turn evil.

And now we’re going into the second half of Crystalized, and these two are at it again.

[lunaraen]

"Am I proud of what I did? No. Would I do it again? Absolutely." With Jessie and Paladin Danse?

Danse is willingto admit that not all of his choices have been exactly stellar.

He’s mademistakes in his time, knows the bitter, stinging taste they always leave, knowsit’s worse when people he cares about and his emotions get involved.

(Especiallyconsidering the various reasons why heated and truly human emotions aren’t soeasy for him to deal with.)

And trustingJessie?

That’s not oneof them. At least, if it’s a mistake, it’s the best one he’s made in years.

But letting herget away with what she gets away with?

Well, she’s herown person. Jessie’s allowed to make her own choices as a reasonable adult,even if most times she doesn’t truly seem like either, and even if she wasn’t,that would hardly stop her.

Jessie doesn’tneed or care for permission, and given her various ranks in almost all thefactions of their corner of the wasteland, there’s hardly need.

But maybe Danseshould try to pay her back for all she’s done for him and be a betterinfluence, try and actually succeed to keep her from getting herself killed asquickly as she’s been trying. She hasn’t died yet, by some number of miracles,but Danse isn’t sure that it isn’t at least in part also due to Jessiesurviving out of sheer spite.

Knowing this,knowing her, he’s still not as prepared as he should be, when he opens the doorto the room Jessie’s had claimed for herself since they began working on theabandoned lumber mill and finds her at her desk.

That doesn’tsound as bad as it is.

It’s not so muchthat she’s at her desk so much as it is that she seems utterly relaxed, feetpropped up on the desk where the papers have been pushed aside while her chairtips back slightly, that gets to him. If her hat weren’t tipped and he didn’tsee the eyes intently focused on him, he’d think she was asleep.

He does see thewatchful eye, though, so he stops on the other side of her desk, arms set athis sides as he gives her a short nod.

“Jessie.”

She tips her hatup a bit more as both eyes watch him, smiling back.

“Irecognize that look. Danse…” Jessie crosses her arms behind her head,leaning back slightly more in her chair as her boots continue to rest on the desk.“I know, I know. Am I proud of what I did? No. Would I do it again?Absolutely.”

It’s a losingbattle.

He knows it, sheknows it, everyone who’s ever met Jessie knows it.

But it’s hislong-suffering duty to at least try.

“…I’mbeginning to think these regular expeditions have been doing something to yourstability.” It’s not the right thing to say, but he has no idea how totake it back without stumbling over his words or giving her an even biggeropening.

The smiledoesn’t fall, strengthening if anything as Jessie raises an eyebrow.

“Stability.”There’s a lazy drawl to her voice as she repeats the word, and they both knowtoo well how poorly the word describes anything to do with her.

Still, nottwelve hours ago Danse had to trudge back to the settlement with Jessie at hisside in the ghoul filled dark of night after an already too-long evening, hadto deal with his power armor nearly malfunctioning and almost keeping himtrapped inside and from being able to sleep, and while it was infinitely betterthan being alone with his thoughts, he has the right to say something about it.

“Particularlyin regards to your mental state.”

“You don’tsay.” Jessie seems to somehow relax even more, shoulders slumping as shechuckles. “Don’t tell me this was your first clue?”

“No, thatwould be the occasional, casual acts of cannibalism. And general disregard foryour own life.” The two tend to go together more often than he’scomfortable with, and he’s already fairly uncomfortable with the cannibalism asit is. The only good thing that’s come from it, as far as Danse can gather, isthat the eerie ability to sense other cannibals has saved them from dealingwith the likewise eerily pleasant cannibal caravans or deranged roamingtrappers.

It had alsoallowed them to deal with the cannibal who had been lurking about just beyondthe hedges of the mill when they first began fixing it up as a settlement.

(He hadn’tparticularly cared much for his own life either, as evidenced by the fact thathe threatened to eat Jessie and tried to attack her while Danse and Jessie’sdeathclaw, Cupcake, were right beside her. The fact that Danse himself stillisn’t sure which of the two are more protective of Jessie only highlights howstupid a move it was, but he’s getting off track and Jessie’s grinning againand why is she grinning she could’ve died.)

“Is thatall?”

Danse breathesin, counts to three, resists the urge to snap or, worse, start venting, andexhales sharply through his nose as he pinches its bridge.

“Iunderstand that it’s not the first time you’ve gotten yourself into dangeroussituations.” Deciding to stick with him and allow him to hide on theIsland despite the trouble it caused, and still causes, with the Brotherhood ofSteel is more than enough proof of that and only one example, as well as oneDanse would rather not mull over until he has time to get existential andJessie’s busy with Valentine again. “Even so, most wouldn’t dare get closeto a cult of rampant fanatics like the Children of Atom, never mind want tobecome the center of attention at one of their ‘celebrations’ and then riskradiation poisoning.”

Especiallythanks to the issues caused by the fog condensers that allowed them to evenmake Echo Lake Lumber into a settlement in the first place.

(Danse stops himselfshort of letting it sound like an accusation, fingers twitching as he tilts hishead back slightly. It’s hard, at times, to not be affected by the tensionsbetween the people of Far Harbor or let his judgements affect his interactionswith them.

Jessie knowswhat she’s doing, most the time, as dangerous and downright impossible astrying to create some form of peace seems, and he respects that.

He just wishesshe would stop trying to get herself killed. He’s lost enough people toradiation, and more than that to the creatures already lost to it. Saying thatanyone’s still sane on a place like Far Harbor is a tough call, made all theworse by how everyone seems to be aware of and acknowledge their owninstabilities.)

Jessie gives ashort shrug, shoulders not moving as much as her hands do, no longer behind herhead as she holds them up.

“What can Isay? They know I can talk.” Danse ignores the jab at his own mostly keptsilence around the cultists. Jessie seems less inclined to brush it off oroverlook the hypocrisy he’s been willingly trying, and up until now largelysucceeding, to forget. “And you can’t act like I was the only one getting into things. I’d say you got everyone’s attention last night.”

Aforementionedkept silence isn’t as effective as it could be when it’s broken for the sake ofsinging.

For the record,he’d gotten more than just some light clapping, and Jessie had been the one tostart even if she didn’t expect him to join in, but remembering that doesn’t dohim much good in fighting off his creeping embarrassment or the lingeringrelief that none of it had been taken as disrespectful in some way.

So he plays intothe other trap and stoops to her level.

“And I’dsay you drank too much at the festivities.” He still hasn’t ruled out thepossibility that she somehow got her hands on too much Wastelander before theyever got close to the Nucleus, but he’s more than certain that she got plentywhile they were there.

He appreciatesso much of her, really he does, and there is so much about her that will nevercease to amaze him, but she can also be extremely frustrating and aggravatingwith how carefree she manages to act even when she risked dying again nottwelve hours ago. Danse is hardly surprised he has to fight the urge to dosomething juvenile that would at least get some sort of reaction out of her,like steal her hat.

Actually…

He’s alreadystooping to her level. Besides that, Jessie’s always been encouraging him to dosillier, more ‘human’, things, to 'enjoy life and living’ instead of playing itsafe for ensured survival, and he’s willing to say the encouragements have onlyincreased since they’ve come to Far Harbor.

So he takes apage out of her book and does what he does.

Whatever retortJessie had about her drinking habits, or maybe his, becomes a squawk as shestraightens up, swiping at him and barely missing the chance to snatch her hatback, nearly falling out of her chair as she does.

Danse stops,already turning to look at Jessie as the chair settles again, because it’s justa hat and he doesn’t care as much about his continued existence as he should,but Jessie doesn’t seem bothered, grinning as she straightens up and brushesback the bangs that fell into her face.

This? This partfeels like a mistake.

“Oh, you’reon.”

And that grinonly gets wider as she gets to her feet, hands falling on her hips. This justhappens to be when survival instincts finally kick back in for Danse as herealizes he’s still holding onto her hat and now has her full attention, if hedidn’t already, and he turns and bolts through the door just as she lunges forhim. There are times when he’s reminded of how grateful he is for the benefitsof power armor, and this is one of them.

There’s a wholelot more running after that.

(And frankly,he’s beginning to think being around the Children of Atom may be safer thanleaving Jessie to her own devices. She has her ways of keeping thingsinteresting.)

[audreycritter]

:o CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT THE BATFAMILY AND TRAUMA because it feels like this is a subject in which you have a great deal of knowledge

Okay, I could talk for hours about this, honestly. There are so many lettered disorders that fit the Batfamily (OCD, RAD, FAS, SPD, PTSD, ASD, plus bipolar, depression, anxiety, insomnia, etc) and they can all be the RESULT of trauma or the result of innate brain structure. There’s so much that I’m actually tempted to write a few essays about it. But for the sake of answering the ask, I’ll hit a few major points and I am 100% open to questions/more specific asks.

Canon is a mess, obviously, but there are some things that either consistently track or show up regularly in fanon for each character. I think first we need to differentiate the kinds of trauma each character has experienced because both the type of and duration of the event and the age at which it’s experienced can make a difference.

Bruce and Dick both are portrayed as having loving, stable parents and backgrounds that were taken from them by abrupt violence. This means that they have event-based trauma like PTSD or other things that it can trigger but they do not have chronic or infancy-related brain damage (because this, essentially, is what most trauma is: brain damage). The age at which they were exposed was mid-adolescence so there are many crucial developmental stages that the probably hit appropriately.

Tim, while born into a home with money, is written as often neglected emotionally which is an important detail. Meeting physical needs does not prevent trauma when there is gross emotional neglect. If there is one stable caregiver, like Alfred with Bruce, it can resolve (to some degree) a missing parent even if there is bitterness or hurt. But with a rotation of attachments of varying interests or levels, the reality is that there are going to be long-term attachment issues. The kind of trauma that missing attachment creates in the brain can have all kinds of affects and trouble regulating sleep is one of them. It’s highly likely, in the context of realistic trauma depiction, that Tim’s coffee habit, sleep troubles, and anxiety predate his tenure as Robin and are rooted in the lack of attachment to a consistent caregiver. When a child’s emotional needs are not met, they often have trouble regulating themselves and in some personalities this results in the physical component of difficulty recognizing a need for sleep, water, or food or seeking them at odd times/in crisis states.

Cass, my darling. There is a very fundamental danger in separation from a mother at birth. Even infants experience grief and to be separated from the smells and sounds of the womb even within minutes or days of delivery severs the first and most basic attachment. This is why even children adopted at birth can have attachment issues, even if they are very mild in a loving adoptive home. But to be separated from a mother and then raised in a home with minimal language or comfort (remember, she tells Bruce, “he never held me” as far as her memory goes) does two things that are present in Cassandra Cain’s story. Children with that kind of physical and mental trauma often have sensory issues with input, so when Cass doesn’t react to pain the same way the others do, it might be that her brain actually doesn’t register pain. A common presentation of this is that actual pain (a broken arm, a deep cut) go unnoticed for hours while a soft hand on the back or a gentle tap are perceived as deeply painful. The other thing the absence of spoken language/dialogue does is affect memory. Memory storage relies heavily on repetitive recollection and the strongest positive/neutral memories are the ones that are discussed and shared. Her childhood, the most traumatic memories aside, is likely a blur or a composite.

Jason. Ooh, boy. Because his return is (relatively) recent and there are three separate but very strong iterations of him, I’m going to focus on his character pre-death just for this. Partly because we’re told the Lazarus Pit changed things significantly for him and each of the current versions have very different, equally valid explanations. So, pre-death, he’s a bit of a punk. We know that he dealt with, like Cassandra, a separation from his birth mom in infancy and then Catherine’s drug problems and Willis’ instability probably worsened those things instead of helping to heal them. Children with reactive attachment disorder and early trauma often have issues with cause and effect, appropriately placed blame, and emotional illiteracy coupled with stress hormone overdrive resulting in explosive anger and deep self-hatred/mistrust. They often pendulum swing between self-blame (“I’m an awful person, I don’t deserve anything, everyone hates me”) and violent shows of external blame (“this is all your fault! You just like to punish me!”). The problem is that with the missing cause and effect cycle and the high stress state of the brain, this means that most things that make the child even mildly uncomfortable are perceived as massive threats AND misappropriately blamed. For example, a child with a healthy brain may forget to do their homework and if the parent asks in the morning about it, may feel slight panic or annoyance in response. A child with RAD might snap: everything is stupid, nobody cares, this is all YOUR FAULT. They may throw or break things or storm off and then defend themselves with “you MADE me do that!” Decisions made to protect or help the child can be interpreted as threats or hate.

Okay, Damian. While it might seem like he is the most traumatized of the lot (and in some ways he is), he also has the benefit of being with Talia and Talia genuinely caring for him. She holds him, she talks to him, etc. It does important things for his brain. Unfortunately, he also has massive physical abuse and the war zone/refugee stress of being forced into dealing with adult violence and adult decisions while he is still small and developing. This is why he seems more mature for his age– he has huge social and emotional gaps as a result. His trauma means that his brain likely considers every input a threat, resulting in massively high stress hormones, chronic exhaustion, and defensive anger. Everything he does is coded as a survival mechanism.

Stephanie Brown! I’m guessing that she is dealing with some form of Fetal Alcohol/Drug Syndrome as well as basic neglect. Inconsistent care is dangerous because the cause and effect pattern in an infant’s brain is disrupted (healthy: baby cries, is fed and changed; unhealthy, baby cries, is SOMETIMES fed or changed– baby learns that crying doesn’t mean much and everything seems arbitrary). FAS means that there is physical brain damage she’s probably had to learn to route around, so mild learning delays. She isn’t stupid but she has to work twice as hard to retain the same academic things others do. Because of the cause and effect gap, she probably has a loose innate grasp of how dangerous things are. I’m guessing if she hadn’t gotten into crimefighting, she’d either be a thrill-junkie or have the reputation as being “wild” even though in basic self-care like sleep and food she’s very self-regulated and responsible. When Bruce or Tim tell her things are dangerous or beyond her skill set, it is probably not just her bravery at work– they might actually have accurate assessments that she cannot and does not see, but through sheer luck, force of will, or discipline she’s managed to escape more severe consequences. That isn’t to say that she isn’t good at what she does, just that she might actually NOT consider the worst-case (or even likely case) scenario when attempting something.

I could go on for hours– there are so many aspects of each of these that I haven’t even touched on but this is getting super long, so I should probably divide it up!