#the second blackfyre rebellion

[rynnthefangirl]

Blackfyre rebellion the rebellion of all time. Do we really want a bunch of nerds and weirdos running our kingdom? Look at this jock over here! he’s hot and has a cool sword! No that isn’t his son over there snogging a dude idk who that is look guys SWORD.

[knightofthenewrepublic]

[visenyaism]

We can't all be secret Targeryans.

I think Aegon the Unworthy and his general sluttiness ensured that Anyone could plausibly be a Secret Targeryan

I mean. I get where you're coming from, but there very much Are Secret Targs all across the 7 kingdoms.

That is very much a Thing That Happened.

fully believe shiera seastar and bloodraven had a secret relatives spreadsheet going after running into like the fifth stranger with resting Blackfyre Chad Face. If you answer all their questions about if you ever knew the whereabouts of your father right you get to see the onboarding powerpoint

[aegor-bamfsteel]

“He is marking down the men to die, Dunk realized. "My lord," he said, "we saw the heads outside. Is that… will the Fiddler… Daemon… will you have his head as well?" Lord Bloodraven looked up from his parchment. "That is for King Aerys to decide… but Daemon has four younger brothers, and sisters as well. Should I be so foolish as to remove his pretty head, his mother will mourn, his friends will curse me for a kinslayer, and Bittersteel will crown his brother Haegon. Dead, young Daemon is a hero. Alive, he is an obstacle in my half brother's path. He can hardly make a third Blackfyre king whilst the second remains so inconveniently alive. Besides, such a noble captive will be an ornament to our court, and a living testament to the mercy and benevolence of His Grace King Aerys." —The Mystery Knight

Bloodraven less than 10 years later murdering Haegon Blackfyre and lobbying for Aegor Rivers’ execution, and 20 years later murdering Aenys Blackfyre in the crown’s name: I changed my mind, ITS CHOPPIN’ TIME!!

(GRRM likes to undercut his villains by giving them a comical lack of self-awareness)

[windandrose]

Daeron II is better person than me because unlike him, i will abolish House Bracken for 1) actively belittle my mom and trying to replace her as queen, and 2) strongest backing of blackfyre rebellion

[greenbloods]

honestly hilarious that the lannister siblings are all history freaks in different direction. cersei rolls her eyes that jaime doesn't know what the second blackfyre rebellion was about while he rattles off the tale of ser luthor pisseryon of daeron i's kingsguard, who served for all of seven moons before he died shitting himself en route to dorne. meanwhile tyrion's sitting in the corner reading maester leomore's neo-myrxist critique of archmaester hargreave's account of the Storming of the Dragonpit (The Warrior Himself: Examining the Dying of the Dragons in the Light of the Seven) and not paying attention to it one bit because he’s moping about how everyone in kings landing hates him, the imp, because he’s ugly and rich, and not because he’s a feudal overlord who is fundamentally detached from the immediate concerns of his starving subjects

[pigeon-princess]

The lineup of our beloved ASOIAF ttrpg campaign characters!⚔️

Our amazing GM @oneirotect has set us in 207 AC between the first and second Blackfyre Rebellions (around 90 years before Game of Thrones and 50 years after the death of the last known dragon). So far we've travelled across the Narrow Sea, partied in Braavos, escaped an assassination attempt by the Golden Company, made some difficult political decisions and started romantic entanglements with likely very dire consequences.

[tamayakii]

their angel au thought

imagine if Darling died in a tragic way, perhaps similar to how Helaena or Lucerys died depending on which team she would be “in”.

Her ghost would haunt the halls of the red keep, wailing at the foot steps at what was once Aemmas and Rhaenrya’s chambers. She watches Aegon III’s children grow up and witnesses the maiden vault, to Aegon the unworthy taking the throne and his nine mistresses and his great bastards. To the blackfyre rebellion, then Dunk and Egg. And then the Mad king Aerys.

Her ghost was most volatile during the reign of the Mad King, storms often wrecking against the Red Keep- Screams of a woman would be heard from one of the royal chambers, items would be broken and paintings would be torn from their frames but it only seemed to pick up more since the sack of kings landing.

Mrycella and Tommen were the only one who had seemed to have decent experiences with this ghost, besides the servants of the castle.

But still, the storms ravished kings landing like no other on certain days like clock work. Only three maesters since the Dance of The Dragons came to believe it was indeed a ghost, others would scoff at the notion but all of the evidence was too coincidental to pass it off as nature. Perhaps it was the gods showing their disdain for the current state of Kings Landing, but no one would able to figure it out as the incidents came to a stop once Queen Cersei gave birth to her second daughter, an angry babe that was pushed into the world screaming louder than any child the Maesters had heard before.

[rynnthefangirl]

2 Daemon 2 Blackfyre 2 gay 4 Dunk 2 rebel

[oneirotect]

Thought I would post some of the character ref art from our ASOIAF campaign for your viewing pleasure!

I’m running a homebrew campaign with the official SIFRP system by green ronin, set in 207 AC between the first and second Blackfyre rebellions!

From left to right:

Tobiah ‘Toby’ Martell, 26 (Played by Nico): A legitimized bastard of House Martell, nephew of Maron and Daenerys.

Oswick ‘Redtusk’ Crakehall, 47 (NPC): A close ally of Daemon Blackfyre during the first rebellion, fled to Essos with Bittersteel in 196 AC.

Gwyndon ‘Gwyn’ Pyke, 26 (Played by @pigeon-princess): A bastard of House Farwynd of the Lonely Light, skinchanger and warg.

[cowboysanddragons23]

Debunking Rhaelya shippers' arguments:

-"Dorne doesn't frown on polygamy.": Dorne is very sexually liberal in many things, but polygamy is not one of them. They are still a class society (ex. Oberyn would never marry Ellaria even though he genuinely loves her, Quentyn Martell was a virgin and Arianne would never marry Daemon Sand.) and polygamy is illegal under the eyes of the Old and New Gods and since Jaehaerys I outlawed it and for a very good reason.

-"Elia and Rhaegar had an agreement about his affair with Lyanna." "Elia would have been ok with Rhaegar going with Lyanna." "Rhaegar took Lyanna as a second wife along with Elia.": Elia would have never agreed to Rhaegar cavorting with Lyanna, because that would be giving her enemies a recently sharpened sword to murder her and her children, as she knows that the cause of the Blackfyre Rebellions was the anti Dornish sentiment towards Myriah Martell and her son Baelor. Also, Maegor was the last Targaryen king who attempted enforced polygamy having a dragon and even he couldn't make the Faith bow. Rhaegar has no dragons to inspire obedience.

-"Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love." "Rhaegar and Lyanna was a love story." "Rhaegar would have been a great king." "Rhaegar would care about Jon." "Rhaegar and Lyanna could have been a great king and queen.": There is no evidence that points out that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love, aside from the testimony of Barristan Selmy (who was never at the Tower of Joy, thus he doesn't know what truly happened). Rhaegar was Summerhall made flesh; obsession with prophecies, grandiose plans to save the world and willingness to sacrifice women into its altar. He took Lyanna because he wanted to prove that the prophecy that led to his birth was real and that the sacrifices his family made were worth something. Whatever fondness he had for Lyanna, his Third Head of the Dragon always came first. Rhaegar and Lyanna wouldn't have been good parents to Jon, because the former would give up on him from birth because he isn't the Visenya he wanted and the latter would be too young to be a mother (Viserys II and Larra Rogare everyone?). And besides, thousands died for it and the same happened when Duncan Targaryen married Jenny of Oldstones (who are exactly the romantic love story Rhaelya is erroneously interpreted as). Rhaegar is too obsessed with prophecies and Lyanna is utterly disinterested in ladylike pursuits.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

“”…beggar's feast you've laid before us Without Bittersteel…"

"Bittersteel be buggered," insisted a familiar voice. "No bastard can be trusted, not even him. A few victories will bring him over the water fast enough." —The Mystery Knight

Wow, I have no idea why Aegor Rivers would be reluctant to join in Gormon Peake’s plan. Must be his homophobia 🙄

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“I hate Targaryens because they think that they are better than everyone else.” - something very interesting I have seen a couple of TG stans post.

I am not going to get into how I always find TG fans who fight for Alicent’s children to be seen as Targaryens, yet they despise Targaryens, never not funny. Let’s focus on the comment itself.

Targaryens think that they are better than everyone else? The same thing can be applied to all families in Westeros. All of them. Here are some examples:

1. The Lannisters believe that they are better than everyone else because they have money.

2. The Tyrells deem themselves superior because they have the most fertile lands.

3. The Hightowers believe they are better than everyone else because of their close connection to the Faith and the Citadel (which they only use for personal gain, not because they are truly religious).

4. The Arryns’ motto is “As High as Honor” and they look down upon anyone, who in their view only, is not to be considered honorable.

5. Even the Starks (though I love them - my second favorites after the Targaryens) play the morality police and like to believe that no one is as just as they are.

You know the difference between these Andal Houses and the Targaryens?

The Targaryens actually have pretty good reasons that set them apart from other families in Westeros: their Godly features of silver hair and purple eyes and their ability to bond with and ride dragons. They conquered the Seven Kingdoms and created the Iron Throne.

There are people who claim that the Targaryens are the worst thing to have ever happened to Westeros, simply because of their somewhat tumultuous reign.

I say the opposite. The Targaryens are the best thing that ever happened to Westeros. Before them, the Seven Kingdoms were at constant war with one another. By uniting the Kingdoms and creating the Iron Throne, the Targaryens gave the people a good chance at peace. They controlled the Realm and kept Lords in line with the help of dragons.

Yes, there were civil wars, like Maegor’s usurpation, the Dance of the Dragons (another usurpation courtesy of the greedy Greens/Hightowers) and the Blackfyre Rebellions.

The truth is that you cannot avoid these types of wars. Regardless of which family controlled the Iron Throne, succession wars would have taken place. Andal Houses were celebrating having taken down Aerys II, and they thought that with the Targaryen dynasty ended, all will be well. Look what happened after Robert Baratheon’s death. The first Andal King passed and a civil war with five contenders to the Iron Throne started.

The Targaryens did their best, and the people of Westeros knew more peace during their reign, than they ever did before or after them.

[goodqueenaly]

This is such a niche question, but how do you make sense of the Penrose family tree during Daeron ll’s reign? We have Elaena marrying Lord Ronnel Penrose and having 4 kids with him, Aelinor Penrose who is Aerys’ cousin somehow, and the 4 sons that Quentyn Ball murders during battle. They’re mostly irrelevant but I’m scratching my head thinking how this all works

A niche genealogical-dynastic question? You’ve come to the right place! 

While Elio Garcia confirmed (here and here) that Aelinor was a cousin of her husband Aerys, he did not confirm the specific nature of this familial relationship. (And for what it’s worth, I’m supposing that Aelinor and Aerys were very roughly of an age.) If I were to guess, I would suppose that Aelinor was a descendant of either Baela or Rhaena Targaryen - a mid to late grandchild, maybe, of Baela’s marriage to Alyn Velaryon or Rhaena’s marriage to Garmund Hightower). Whether Aelinor was specifically a daughter of the ruling Lord (presumably a lord) of Parchments or the daughter of a male-line descendant of the family we can’t know for now, until and unless GRRM specifies (in Fire and Blood Volume 2, perhaps, or the Tales of Dunk and Egg), but I think the best guess is that Aelinor was something like the future King Aerys I’s second cousin once removed (again, assuming that being Aerys’ cousin didn’t mean that Aelinor was, say, descended from one of Aemma Arryn’s half-siblings, or one of Queen Alyssa’s Velaryon nephews, though I doubt GRRM intends Aelinor to have been so distantly removed a relation). 

If we can say very little about Aelinor’s place in the Penrose dynasty, we can say even less about her relationship to either Ronnel Penrose or the unnamed “Lady Penrose” whose youngest son Quentyn Ball supposedly spared, much less the relationship of the latter two to one another. Clearly, from both the Targaryen family tree and from Elio’s statements referenced above, Aelinor was not a daughter of Ronnel and Elaena themselves. If we are to guess - admittedly rather a thin guess, but not totally illogical - that Ronnel was closer to Elaena’s age than Aelinor’s (and so more obvious a marriage partner for the roughly 30-something Elaena, then perhaps Ronnel belonged to the generation of Aelinor’s father (presumably father, given the Westerosi patriarchal tendency to identify dynasts along male lines), maybe born, at an extremely rough estimate, around the 140s or 150s. 

So my guess is that Aelinor was a granddaughter of one of the twin daughters of Daemon and Laena (perhaps Baela more likely, given the relative geopolitical advantage of uniting Parchments and Driftmark, compared to Parchments and Oldtown, a consideration of cross-country marriage making I discussed), and a daughter of the unnamed Lord of Parchments. Maybe because Daeron II liked the fact that Aelinor was a cousin of himself and his children (just far enough, perhaps, from religiously objectionable degrees of relation while still having that familial connection); maybe he thought that Aelinor, coming from a family with at bare minimum a heraldic respect for the written word, would be an attractive partner for his bookish second son (as Jaehaerys so badly failed to understand with his son Vaegon); maybe Daeron felt the Penroses were a worthy ally in the Stormlands to draw more would-be or actively anti-Dornish families away from the pro-war, and perhaps increasingly pro-Daemon, camp; maybe for any combination or none of these reasons - but whatever the rationale, King Daeron decided to betroth Prince Aerys to Lady Aelinor. Then, I think, when Aerys failed or refused to consummate his marriage, Daeron II tried to save face with the Penroses by offering Ronnel - who I think may have been Aelinor’s paternal uncle - to his eligible widowed cousin, Princess Elaena. The “Lady Penrose” of the First Blackfyre Rebellion may have been Aelinor’s (unnamed, because of course GRRM) mother, with the boys nearly all slain by Fireball perhaps Aelinor’s younger brothers - a heartbreaking personal loss, if so, for a war which saw other bitter personal losses for figures like Eustace Osgrey and Bloodraven.)

These are all guesses, obviously, very much complicated by the extremely limited information we have and the lack of clarity provided by what is there (not only the historical error on Jeor Mormont’s part, but also the vague reference to the First Blackfyre Rebellion’s “Lady Penrose” - seemingly the wife or widow of a Lord of Parchments, but complicated by the sometimes overbroad use of “lady” as a title in Westeros, as seen for example in references to Sybelle Locke as “Lady Glover” despite being only the sister-in-law of the Master of Deepwood Motte). All we can say is that Aelinor was in some fashion related to Aerys, but not through Elaena, and that we’re probably bound to learn more in Fire and Blood Volume 2 or future Tales of Dunk and Egg.

(It me, so I have to wonder if GRRM used “Aelinor” as her name not only to add a little dose of Valyrian-ness to her, but also because of its similarity to “Alienor”, the spelling used by Maurice Druon in The Accursed Kings for the woman most of us probably know better as Eleanor of Aquitaine. I don’t find Aelinor, to the very limited extent we know her, similarly either to the historical Eleanor or Druon’s typically misogynistic pseudo-historical references to her - but then I also don’t see the similarity with Alysanne, for what it’s worth.)

[direwolfrules]

So like, I just think it would be so funny if in the pre-Blackfyre Rebellion era, Daemon Blackfyre’s thing for Daenerys was one-sided. Like, there’s Daemon being a creepy weirdo and Daenerys is just like, “which bastard half-brother are you again?” Give me a Daenerys who absolutely does not give a fuck about Daddy’s favorite little tool to insult his trueborn heir for the high crime of *checks notes* being responsible. Give me Daenerys going to her brother who’s basically old enough to be her dad and being like, “Thank the gods you betrothed me to Maron Martell, I cannot stand Daemon’s constant talk about taking a second wife”.

Listen, I know George said in a word of god interview thing that Daenerys was in love with Daemon or whatever, but I simply do not care. If he wanted us to truly believe that she loved Daemon, he should have had her mourn him. I’m in the camp that the whole “BUT THEY WERE IN LOVE” thing in universe is just maesters making shit up for dramatic effect and also by Blackfyre rebels to try and add some romance to their cause, to spread the belief they’re fighting for some noble purpose or whatever.

Anyways, this is an anti-Daemon Blackfyre zone (joking, he can be so interesting but I do NOT believe he holds an actual claim to the Iron Throne, I’m actually much more interested in Daena, Rhaena, and Elaena trapped in the fucking Maiden Vault because Baelor decided to live out an eternal No-Nut November).

[atopvisenyashill]

what role do you think shiera seastar played in daeron ii's governance of westeros?

okay so first of all. shiera is roughly the same age/generation as all of daeron’s kids - the timeline is vague but the gap of years she could have been born in is like right at the tail end of rhaegal and maekar’s births to several years after. so i imagine that not dissimilar to daenerys, daeron takes more of a very distant brother/paternal role with her. a girl is not a threat the way a boy is, she’s young enough to be his own kid, and she's a motherless child, so it’s fine, she’s raised at court with his kids and he doesn't complain too much about it. i do wonder if part of shiera being raised at court is instigated by myriah and also what "raised at court" could even mean - Maekar is anywhere from like 4 to 10 when daeron becomes king (bloodraven is roughly around the same age as Maekar, maybe a year to four years older) which means Shiera is under 10 as well, as young as a toddler (i mean hell, if she's born at the tail end of Aegon's reign, she could be the same age as Valarr who is Daeron's grandson). So depending on when it is she's born, is she at KL or does Daeron ask for her to be brought to Dragonstone? I mean, how set up was Daeron's court at Dragonstone? It had to have existed at least on a small scale because Daeron takes the capital bloodlessly after Aegon IV dies.

SO. Anyways I think it's not likely she does very much at the beginning of his reign due to being around the same age as, at the oldest his second youngest son and at the youngest the same age as his first grandchild. Coupled with the fact that her mother is dead and foreign born, being from Lys, she likely lives the life of a typical lady at court but potentially without the pressure to marry. Yes, she's a bastard, but she's a legitimized one, beloved by the royal family, with a sister-by-law who comes from a culture that seems to believe if you have a bastard, you best act like a responsible parent for that child (not to say Dorne doesn't have it's own bastard based issues, see: Obara BUT I do think someone like Robert would not be allowed to just leave all his bastards all scattered about willy nilly. I think it's likely those children and their mothers have the ability to push for acknowledgement in a way a lot of bastards north of the marches don't). I also think the fact that Shiera's mother is foreign born would help ingratiate her with Myriah and Daeron's kids - we know Larra felt like an outcast, I think it's likely Shiera bonds with the royal family over feeling like she's culturally on the outs.

By the time she's an adult, the Blackfyre Rebellion is in full swing. So - does she take on a more advisory role when she gets older? I think it's possible. Here are some choice quotes:

"You've known queens and princesses. Did they dance with demons and practice the black arts?" "Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven's paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty. And once my sister Rhae put a love potion in my drink, so I'd marry her instead of my sister Daella."

-the Sworn Sword

Bloodraven proved to be a capable Hand, but also a master of whisperers who rivaled Lady Misery, and there were those who thought he and his half sister and paramour, Shiera Seastar, used sorcery to ferret out secrets. It became common to refer to his "thousand eyes and one," and men both high and low began to distrust their neighbor for fear of their being a spy in Bloodraven's employ. 

-The World of Ice and Fire

"You can know a man by his friends, Egg. Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen. How not, when he had taken a Dornishwoman into his bed, and sold his own sweet sister to the prince of Dorne, though it was Daemon that she loved? Daeron bore the same name as the Young Dragon, but when his Dornish wife gave him a son he named the child Baelor, after the feeblest king who ever sat the Iron Throne.

-the Sword Sword

We know very little about Shiera at this moment in time but I think it's not unlikely that for the middle part of Daeron's reign, when it seems Baelor & Valarr have taken the lead on going out and about in the kingdom, that Shiera was acting in some sort of advisory capacity (nothing official, similar to Elaena in that she's working behind the scenes rather than sitting on the council) and some people had a bit of an issue with it. I think it's not unlikely that as Daeron got older, he might have distanced himself from her but by that point she had an in: no i'm not talking about bloodraven i'm talking about Aerys. Aerys immediately made Bloodraven hand and while I give Daeron some shit for not getting Bloodraven under control, it's ultimately Aerys that really lets Bloodraven go crazy with his police state and I think Shiera has big hand in that, perhaps on par with Lady Mysaria. Or at least, I hope she does lmao, and I think it's interesting that both Mysaria and Serenei, Shiera's mom, are from Lys. Maybe Shiera being mentioned in conjunction with Mysaria and Bloodraven is nothing, but I think what's most likely is that as Shiera got older and started dabbling with more magic, she took up a sort of Court Sorceress role a la Melisandre, at the behest of King Aerys I himself - and why wouldn't he turn to her? It's likely they were raised together!