#the princess bride meta

[kateeorg]

Layers of Grief and Love in The Princess Bride

Somebody must have realized this before, but I haven't seen it discussed anywhere, so...

Okay, so you know how a lot of The Princess Bride focuses on love and grieving? You know, Wesley and Buttercup's love that transcends death, Buttercup grieving Wesley so much she's become dead inside, Inigo spending 20 years grieving and trying to get revenge for his beloved father's death?

Well, the story takes on an added layer of significance and sadness when we consider the framing story of Grandfather reading the book to his grandson.

Because Grandfather mentions early on that this was a book passed from father to son.

So, why is Grandfather the one reading it to his grandson?

Because - and this might be a head canon since the film never says it - I have to assume his own son, the kid's father, is likely dead.

This doesn't seem to be something impacting Grandson very strongly, so I'd imagine this loss happened early in his life, too early for him to remember. But Grandfather clearly wants to connect with his son's kid in the best way he knows how:

The Princess Bride.

A story he shared with his own son, who is now gone. A story about loss, and fathers and sons, and a love that transcends death.

Grandson is dismissive at first, in the way young boys often are. They take the adults in their life, especially the elderly, for granted. He dreads Grandpa coming over and pinching his cheeks. Plus the poor kid is sick, so we give him a break for being a bit cheeky about the whole thing. He's also dismissive about the power of love, frustrated that Grandfather is reading a "kissing book". His only reaction to Wesley's initial death is, "Murdred by pirates is good."

But by the end, he's upset at Buttercup seemingly marrying Humperdink instead of Wesley. He can't bear the idea of Wesley being dead. He doesn't mind the kissing anymore. And he asks Grandfather to come back and read to him again tomorrow, the book his own father should have read him. He understands, just a little better, even if unconsciously, what love and loss are. And what his Grandfather means to him in response to that.

And Grandfather's last words? The last words of the whole film? "As you wish." Because this whole story we've just seen unfold was an act of love, from a grandfather to the son of his deceased child.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

“The whole point of the story is that both Rhaenyra and Aegon were unfit to rule.”

Wrong.

The point of the story is that in a patriarchal society, women would get usurped regardless what they do, and what kind of people they are.

Rhaena (firstborn child of King Aenys)

Rhaenys (only child of Prince Aemon, eldest son and heir of King Jaehaerys I)

Rhaenyra (firstborn child of King Viserys I)

The Dance of the Dragons is about how Rhaenyra Targaryen was usurped by her evil and greedy stepmother in favor of her own son (the story was originally called “The Princess and the Queen”).

This is an absolute monarchy. More than half of the monarchs who sat that throne, were unfit to rule. Nobody cares about that.

It’s about who is the rightful ruler.

The rightful ruler was Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen (just like Empress Matilda had been the rightful Queen of England).

And as a plus, out of all of King Viserys’ children, Rhaenyra is obviously the most qualified/most competent to sit the Iron Throne. There is no question about that.

[follows-the-bees]

Have we thought about this?

Both hand placements! (Stede/Buttercup on the stomach and Ed/Westley on the back.)

Also, I need a moment like this.

[metasquire1]

Spanish Swordsmen My Beloved

[blueteller]

"What happened to the Dragon Half-Blood, you ask?"

(Dragon Half-Blood in the background: *sad forgotten Dragon noises*)

[exaltior-a]

Having to physically and mentally restrain myself from going insane when someone says they don't like dirkjake because JAKE was mean to Dirk. THEIR RELATIONSHIP FAILED BECAUSE THEY BOTH WERE FUCKED UP.

Acting like Dirk was 100% a victim of Jake in their relationship is abysmal reading comprehension. They both fucked up. Do you hear me. It was both of their faults. Jake's got the very on brand "if I ignore my problems they'll go away" and therefore he failed to communicate to Dirk that he wanted more alone time, all while complaining to Jane all the time. Dirk was desperate for a relationship with Jake, and pushed for them to be into a relationship that they both were not ready for because he was and is incredibly lonely. Idk idk acting like Jake is more at fault or completely at fault for their breakup is kind of silly.

They're 16 year old, maladjusted, lonely children who had to raise themselves and developed vastly different ways to cope with that loneliness. They love each other but lack the skills to express it in a healthy way, both putting up a facade in fear that the friends they love so much will no longer want them if they showed their true selves, because they're messy and raw and care too much

Dirk thinks he's a monster who has to hold himself back otherwise hes bound to hurt people that he loves, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy- he hurts someone and takes it as confirmation that he's evil, while Jake is terrified of disappointing people to the point that he refuses to acknowledge when there are problems in fear of being blamed, not wanting to bare responsibility for /anything/ both good and bad in case people expect too much of him and dislike him when he fails to measure up. This is bound to go wrong since neither of them can actually effectively communicate their needs.

[song-writer-melo-wrath]

Silly Game Time: Halloween is a day for appreciating masks. As cultural artifacts, as objects of disguise, as pieces of art in their own right, as fun or frightening costumes, as sources of their own kinds of magic, and so on.

What are some masks (real or fictional, physical or psychological, mundane or magical, ugly or beautiful) you particularly appreciate?

Hooo, wow…

In terms of fictional/physical masks, I'm rather fond of these ones

These three being the Phantom of the Opera mask, Meta Knight's mask, and “Marth”'s mask. Funnily enough, these three all kind of serve different purposes narratively. The first hides scarring, the second acts as armour, and the third hides an identity. But you could also make the argument they all serve the same purpose.

I honestly find characters with masks very interesting in general, here's a few more of 'em,

And what I kind of realized, putting them all together, is identity and truth are their own forms of scars. To hide an identity is to hide from hurt, to hide a scar is to hide a part of your identity, and that can be true both physically and psychologically.

[swinging-stars-from-satellites]

Hey bestie any thoughts on how the Love From The Other Side Spotify canvas video is just clips from hit fantasy movie The Princess Bride???

hang on I have canvas turned off lemme go look-

oh heck it's specifically the scene where Inigo is fighting Count Rugen, that's fricking insane actually

bc that entire arc of The Princess Bride is about a son's love for his father. vengeance, in this context, is fully born out of love. like a kid playing pretend in his father's suit. LFTOS is an incredibly loving song; it's in the freaking title. it's about love that carries on even after the worst has happened

a lot of the themeology lines up too. every lover's got a little dagger in their hand. you killed my father, prepare to die. destruction, but because of love. what would you trade the pain for? you were the sunshine of my lifetime. the worst thing, the loss, the apocalypse, has come and gone, but the love is still there.

throughout basically all of TPB, Inigo is basically haunted by the memory of his father. it's not textually explicit, but it's a narrative haunting. LFTOS is a song from the perspective of the person doing the haunting, looking back on the one left behind. there's a distance they can't cross, but the love lasts forever. it's sharp, though, dangerous and painful. it can be destructive. give up what you love (vengeance) before it does you in. etc etc etc.

what would you trade the pain for?

[bilaudad]

(this post would be better if I could make gifs but)

In the Princess Bride, when Buttercup says breathlessly “Farm boy… fetch me that pitcher?” and Westley slowly crosses the room to her and lifts the pitcher that is completely within her reach down to hand to her and says softly “As you wish”

This is exactly the same as the paintball scene in Tadfield when Aziraphale pouts and gets Crowley to miracle the blue paint off his coat for him

[goblinbugthing]

idk, I just think meta knight would love the neverending story

[sanerontheinside]

that 4k, 6 chapter goncharov fic is rly pretty good. if you even care

[kiralamouse]

Yes, but for those of us who didn't immediately get that S. Morgenstern and the "unabridged version" were nonexistent, who like the idea of Victor Hugo-esque discursions, it's a bit disappointing.

Anyone know of a fanfic that unabridges it? There have to be other history/worldbuilding geeks out there feeling the absence.

The Princess Bride is such a funny book to read after ONLY seeing the movie. Like Goldman made up a fake author from a fake country and proceeded to write the book as an abridged version of what the fake author wrote... and then he proceeds to add in notes to the "abridged version" mentioning all the boring world building stuff he skipped because it was boring.

Like shout out to William Goldman, man really did make an entire book that is just "the cool scenes you thought of in your head" and then made up a fake author to abridge so he doesn't have to connect them.

And it slaps

[drakaripykiros130ac]

One interesting thing I’ve observed is how alike the fates of Rhaena (Queen in the West and the East), Rhaenys (the Queen who never was) and Rhaenyra (the half-year Queen) are.

All three of these women were brought down by the cruel patriarchal system of Westeros.

But notice how adored and respected Rhaena and Rhaenys are by people in this fandom (as well as in Westeros history), compared to Rhaenyra.

Why?

Because Rhaena and Rhaenys sat back and never “dared” to do anything about the injustice they endured.

Rhaenyra did.

And for that, the maesters of the Citadel, who are not only upholders of the patriarchal system but also Hightower lickspittles, did not hesitate to attack her and spew lies about her. And most of these lies concerned her personal life.

Constant talk about her weight, even though the usurping king and his queen consort were both overweight from birth. Constant talk about her children’s parentage, even though there was never any actual proof of what her first three sons looked like and whether or not they inherited Baratheon and/or Arryn genes. Constant talk about how her husband was “unfaithful” (once again, without any proof).

As such, anything bad written about Rhaenyra Targaryen is hard to accept as fact.

[misskyeyes]

"This is true love — you think this happens every day?" 

Inspired by William Goldman, The Princess Bride.

Elisa as Buttercup / Ermal as Westley

[tossawary]

I saw a musical recently where the main character was a writer of these fairy-tale-esque gothic romance adventures, so there was a clear-cut Hero and a Villain and a Damsel in Distress and a Wicked Witch character and so on. Very recognizable archetypes. These imaginary characters would come onstage and act out these adventures when the main character was reading her writing aloud to others.

Unfortunately, this musical was ultimately not good for many reasons, one of which being that the stories that the main character wrote had essentially nothing to do with the rest of the story. These overdramatic and cliché adventures didn't really reflect her real life in a deep and meaningful and interesting way, not effectively, and mostly just came off as silly; they seemed to mostly represent the writer character's inexperience and immaturity more than anything else; and I personally thought that the aesthetic frankly gelled weirdly against the setting of the "real life" segments. It was like two completely separate musicals were trying to happen in alternating segments.

But one REALLY cute thing that this show did is make these imaginary fairy tale characters into the stagehands. The Hero and the Villain and the Damsel were the ones who hurried onstage to move furniture around to indicate a change of location. They would briefly test out the furniture or adjust the props to their liking or interact silently with each other in other ways, before scurrying away or shooing each other off the stage again as the "real" characters walked in. I think the Villain character even lingered once to wink at the main character's mean aunt, before getting dragged offstage by the other imaginary story characters.

It was so cute and fun and made scene changes a bright spot in between terrible music and badly paced "real life" plot. Theatre allows for thin lines between "realities", there are lots of great fourth wall interactions in theatre for example, so in-universe imaginary characters as the stagehands for some really fun meta stuff in a different play. I keep thinking of Roderick Townley's "The Great Good Thing" which was read to me back in elementary school, but anything that has in-universe stories being told like "The Princess Bride" film could work. I hope to see more creative scene changes like that in future stageplays that really work with them.

[valacirya]

Indis appreciation post!

Disclaimer: All the canon info is taken from Morgoth's Ring and Peoples of Middle Earth. Also, this isn't a character analysis/meta. It's just a list of stuff I love (plus some headcanons) about one of my favorite characters in the legendarium.

1. She's athletic and outdoorsy. We're told that Indis is "exceedingly swift of foot" and that "she walked often alone in the fields and friths of the Valar, turning her thought to things that grow untended." When Finwe sees her, she's chilling on a mountainside. I love that she's associated with nature, specifically the wilderness. She parallels Feanor in her exploration of Aman and interest in the imperfect. Also, this is purely self-indulgent but ever since reading HoME for the first time, I've pictured Indis as tall and broad, and muscular beneath a layer of fat.

2. She doesn't let her unrequited love affect her life. "There was ever light and mirth about her." She's not the pining, languishing princess stereotype. She goes on. She doesn't let it make her bitter or depressed, and she is so restrained that only Mandos and possibly Ingwe are aware of her feelings.

3. Part of her attraction to Finwe is intellectual. In HoME we're told that his "mastery of words delighted her." Considering that Indis is also a poet/composer ("wove words into song") and that the Vanyar enjoy linguistics, it makes sense. It's also just really cute.

4. She's politically minded. Her reasoning for pronouncing 's' instead of 'th' is: "I have joined the Noldor, and I will speak as they do." This is the right thing to do to gain the respect of the Noldor and their acceptance of her authority. I also think she makes a statement with Fingolfin and Finarfin's mother-names. Arakano ("high chieftain") and Ingoldo ("the Noldo, eminent among the kindred") are not only powerful, prophetic names, they're also strikingly similar to Ingwe ("chief of chieftains") who is the High King not just of the Vanyar, but all Eldar. What a power move.

5. She's able to balance her own culture with the culture she marries into. Indis integrates into Noldorin society easily while remaining Vanyarin at her core, as is evidenced by Finwe saying that "above all her heart now yearns for the halls of Ingwe and the peace of the Vanyar." Her sons also respect and are proud of their mixed heritage; Finarfin "loved the Vanyar, his mother's people" and is said to be like them (as are Finrod and Galadriel), and Fingolfin's daughter-in-law is Vanyarin (plus the Nolofinweans have a special connection to Manwe).

6. She gets an awesome prophecy about her line. "But I say unto you that the children of Indis shall also be great, and the Tale of Arda more glorious because of their coming. And from them shall spring things so fair that no tears shall dim their beauty; in whose being the Valar, and the Kindreds both of Elves and of Men that are to come shall all have part, and in whose deeds they shall rejoice. So that, long hence when all that here is, and seemeth yet fair and impregnable, shall nonetheless have faded and passed away, the Light of Aman shall not wholly cease among the free peoples of Arda until the end." Fuck yeah.

7. Her name means "valiant woman." This is the only definition given in Morgoth's Ring, I believe. I highly prefer it over the "bride" meaning because it's a badass name and is similar to Artanis ("noble woman") and Astaldo ("the valiant"). A headcanon that I'm particularly attached to is that Indis's mother-name is Indome, meaning "will of Eru."

8. She's popular with most of the Noldor. We're told that "Finwe, King of the Noldor, wedded Indis, sister of Ingwe; and the Vanyar and Noldor for the most part rejoiced." The majority of the Noldor also follow Fingolfin and Finarfin instead of Feanor.

9. She's friends with Nerdanel. HoME states that Nerdanel went to "abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed."

10. She gets pissed off at Finwe when he sides with Feanor. So much so that he thinks she won't want to see him if he's re-embodied. I know this is from his perspective but I'm inclined to agree. [However, this is still very presumptive of him, and his comment that "Indis parted from me without death" is super shitty. Eugh.]

11. She's close to her kids. Finarfin takes after her, Fingolfin passes on the name she gave him, Findis lives with her, Lalwen goes by the name she gave her. Finwe also says that "she hath dear children to comfort her."

So there we have it! What little info we get about Indis is pretty awesome. And this is just a list; I could write a whole essay on her fortitude and unconventionality and my numerous headcanons about her.