#the idea of those conversations fascinates me oughhh especially early on when the wounds are all fresh

[jerreeeeeee]

*"understanding" meaning they know they disagree but also understand the other can't be stopped/thinks they're doing the right thing, whether that manifests as avoiding the topic altogether when they meet, or just weary acceptance and frank conversation; and "antagonistic" meaning at least one of them is actively trying to interfere/stop the other/convince the other to stop, in the interaction itself

i see a lot of different interpretations of barry & lucretia's relationship after the voidfish and i've gone back and forth over what i think so i wanted to see what the general consensus is

my thoughts under the cut

i can't imagine barry realizes what's happened and doesn't try to 'reason with' lucretia for a little while, before eventually somewhat accepting that she won't listen to him, because after a certain amount of time, it just gets exhausting to hope he can still sway her. like i don't think he gives up, he still tries sometimes, because he has to, that's his whole life at this point, hoping and trying and not giving up in the face of isolation and despair and impossible odds, but he knows he has to pick his battles. and sometimes they catch each other on bad days and he’s just really fucking glad to see her and really fucking disappointed in her and really fucking tired, unable to muster the conviction or energy to fight with her.

and lucretia doesn't do much trying to convince barry, because she knows she couldn't get him on board with her shield beforehand, and he definitely doesn't approve of what she did to taako and himself, not to mention davenport (if he even knows about davenport, cause that’s gotta be really distressing for him, right? do you think barry ever tries to kidnap davenport).

i think after that initial period, and certainly after the BOB is created, they're both afraid of what the other is up to, afraid the other will disrupt their own plans, and try to avoid the other detecting them altogether. but, they're also both incredibly lonely and know the other is the only person in the world who understands what's at stake and the burdens they're both carrying, so even though they don't seek each other out often, they both want to, and maybe sometimes do. a conversation after lucretia gets out of wonderland is especially compelling.

i don't think they interact between here there be gerblins and reunion tour, though, mostly because i think lucretia just doesn't really leave the moonbase now that the bureau has some wins and is getting closer to its goal, and as soon as she knows barry's messing with the boys, she's too paranoid at whatever barry's plans are that are completely unknown to her and wants to avoid him in case he's come up with a way to really stop her. and barry is equally paranoid about her discovering his information gathering and keeping him from his plans to infiltrate the moon base, so he doesn't want to show back up on her radar. i don't think lucretia confronted barry when he possessed pringles, because barry still puts the instructions on his coin for the old puzzle, but if he'd been caught, i think he would've anticipated it changing, so i think she discovered it after the fact.

i don't know if i even think they've spoken since lucretia created the bureau, because that's when they start to become, like, "enemies," officially, as lucretia genuinely starts to villainize barry, however reluctantly. although, depending on how much contact they'd had before that, depending on if she's aware of him out in the world working against her or if from her pov he just sorta disappeared somewhere mysterious, maybe she's not even really thinking of barry as 'the red robe,' and more thinking of herself. because she does tell thb originally that the red robes are all dead and gone, and if she'd truly anticipated them coming into contact with barry, wouldn't she have said, there's still one out there, he's dangerous, don't talk to him, etc, like she does later? maybe the red robes story was originally just an easy way to explain away why the relics existed, and privately, to hate herself for her role in it. maybe she doesn't even realize she's villainized her old friend until that consequence makes itself clear by accident, and then there's nothing for her to do but lean into it and turn the remnants of their family against him for real.