#the funny thing too is that i actually don't think lestat's THAT manipulative as a character

[pynkhues]

Armand brought up Lestat in that fight so many times, I can feel his obsession.

What gets me is both Louis and Armand calling the other (and Claudia!) Lestat when they want a slam dunk in a fight because it's just honestly so funny. Like, come on, guys, you can be (and are) your own flavour of manipulative and insane, you don't need to keep making it about him.

[ca-suffit]

It's really funny (read: disgusting) how #some people still act like Louis' POV will be "disproven" or whatever. Like, so in the books slave owner white man Louis lies outright. He will say a thing and then contradict himself in the next sentence. But then come the later books the only thing anyone calls Louis out for was 1) downplaying the emotional reciprocity of Loustat (TVL) and 2) the contested NOLA meeting (TVL & ToTBT). Obviously the show's NOLA meeting will not be contested because let's be so fucking serious right now 🙄 so... Going off both the show and the books, which #they say they do, what's the fucking lie? Because the show's Black man Louis catches himself when he says something untrue and corrects himself. He gets Daniel for a second interview (leaving Armand and why he went along/what he wanted out of this aside rn) because he wants to remember! "It is how it happened." "I've downplayed my part in it." etc. But somehow, the show's Louis, who seeks to reexamine and uncover and work through his (manipulated?) memories will be exposed as a "liar" by the show's Lestat because... in TVL Lestat corroborates everything white Louis said except for one lie that we already know can't be a lie in the show. Like who would Louis even be lying to? The interview is over. He's lying to the present day scenes' impartial third person POV? Exactly. Exactly. Because he's Black!! And they're still waiting for the show to go stop right there! ☝🏿 Lestat never dropped Louis. The placée and the quadroon killed their white head of family for insufficient reason (because years of microagressions and cheerful tone-deafness and cheating on Louis and Claudia's 3D surround sound abuse don't matter to #them). Like when the drop first happened I hated it but I actually love where the show has taken it. And I finally get that the show runners were right. Racist audiences wouldn't have sympathised with Louis and Claudia if it weren’t for the fucking drop. That's why #they are still hung up on it and LOUDLY implying it will be retconned or whatever. Fuck. Looking at one of the most beautiful story's of survivorship and tragic story of family and love with the future up in the air wrt reconciliation and community (Jacob mentioning Sonoma in that Autumn interview!!) and going EYE think the nigger's lying 🤔 FUCK how do people not read the shit #they write and immediately realise that #they are a United Daughters of the Confederacy franchise?? I don't understand how book fandom tolerated them for so long either their takes on the books suck too like I'm so fucking glad I spent the past 20 years as a fan OUTSIDE the fandom like this is ludicrous. Addicted to racism my god - 🦁

.

[bee-named-alex]

Ok so ep7 of iwtv s2. One of the notes i wrote down as i was watching was "fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. nope. just nope. jesus fucking christ don't you dare do this" so you can imagine how i felt. Spoilers.

Ok ok. So I'm so fine rn you don't even know how fine I am. I didn't cry even though I expected to, I was more like empty, which might be even worse (read: better) lol

I'll start with a few quick thoughts, before I get into the bigger things. For the first like 10 minutes I couldn't stop thinking about how great Lestat (Sam) looks like im sorry. Him uncovering the homophobe's filth back at him? 10/10.

The actors are just so- perfect I have to say. Like we don't know what's true and I probably shouldn't believe anything just to be safe, but I found myself believing them everything. Also the whole time I wanted to hate the audience but they think it's just a play and if I, with all the other knowledge, find myself drawn to believe obvious lies, it's not really their fault that they do too.

Let's start with Lestat then. I was so glad to finally see the "real" (not really, even Sam said so) Lestat again

I haven't read the books (and even if i did i know that they change things) so idk how they made him testify because I just don't think he would. Maybe they tortured and forced him, "gave him a choice", maybe he was planning on saving them. Or maybe he just actually was out for vengeance i just don't know.

"You cannot script a hurricane" yeah you can't I loved that him going of script threw Santiago off so much, lmao (like he literally said "I'm about to violate the 5th law" aka kill Lestat I love that. Lestat is such a little shit.)

And when he went of script he told the truth (or as close to truth as we got during the trial i feel). Yes he also did break the laws. I like that he didn't let Santiago manipulate the audience to sympathize with him (don't get me wrong, it's not that he didn't want them to sympathize with him, he just wanted to manipulate them himself lol)

His and Louis' first eye contact (at around 11 minutes I believe) literally broke my heart.

When he talks about the loneliness I can't help but feel sorry for him.

I found it honestly hilarious when he was recounting their whole history backwards, like bitch please, it literally happened the other way arounf. Idk why it was just so funny how he was blatantly lying.

But then when they fully revisited the scenes from last season my jaw dropped.

So firstly Claudia's turning... I am so confused by it. Because it's obviously different from what we saw last time - and the scene itself is so moving. I mean Louis begging Lestat on his knees like he's some god and trying himself and failing and Lestat doing it for him even tho he knows it's a terrible idea. But the confusing part - in Dubai Louis rn says that Lestat's trial version is better than his and that he didn't want to believe it at the trial but now he knows it to be more true.

But like last season, so like 2 weeks ago, he told his own version?? Did he not realize until now, that he's talking about the trial, that he doesn't believe it? Did he lie on purpose but change his mind, is he lying now? Does Armand have to do something with it again? Tf is happening.

And then the fight. Again it's different but this time I remember that we didn't actually see this part of the fight so it could technically be true?? I don't really know rn how big of a part we didn't see last time. But maybe the truth about the fight is somewhere in the middle.

Amazing scene nonetheless, again, if I didn't know shit, I too would 100 % believe Lestat to be the victim. Up until the drop, that is extreme either way.

And Lestat going fully of script here, and his tears and his regret and his voice trembling and I'm sure that he means it. It wasn't a part of the performance. Sam Reid, the actor that he is, fuck.

It is just wo so great, like these new versions we get by Louis telling the story of Lestat showing him the story (which Louis already told us very differently) and on top of that anything could be misremembered. Or edited Armand. Unreliable narration at it's best.

Ok so Armand. "I could not prevent it" Fuck you. No sorry I might be a little harsh but yea no actually I'm not.

First the thing with Nicki and how he was "helped"... Armand got rid of him to have Lestat to himself and now he's doing the same with Claudia and Madeleine to have Louis.

Him having to watch is brutal and I believe his emotions but not his words. It was terrible to watch sure and painful and he didn't want it to happen... but he still sold them out?

He saves Louis. And it's amazing, the fear for his love in his face as he does it. He says it took all his strength and sure. But he could've saved them all. He can literally stop time. Ok maybe not but I for sure think he could've done it.

And rn in Dubai he's trying to convince himself or Louis or Daniel or maybe everyone that it wasn't his fault. But Daniel seems to not believe him (and calls his shit out a few times, good for him). And he's also making Lestat be more of a villain then he is I think (he would not do nothing when watching Claudia's death I'm sorry, that's his daughter.)

Claudia and Madeleine. My heart broke. They were doomed from the begginning. It didn't matter if they fought or not, it didn't matter their love or that they were right, it didn't matter that Madeleine was innocent and Claudia justified (maybe) in her crimes.

It didn't matter that Claudia was right -"We poisoned him, he's fine now. I can also cry and say I'm sorry"- because yes this was exactly true.

Claudia's final request (and Lestat giving it to her and then looking almost proud?? after she says it) and promise of death to all the people who doomed her and Madeleine.

And her rage. "It was never about me" and that's also true and yet she dies because of it. Tragic.

Madeleine's "My coven is Claudia" is just pure love and again it's what dooms her and again it's fucking tragic.

Watching the execution I couldn't breath really. Hurts still. And I don't believe Armand's version of the story though. Not that he tried but couldn't save them, not that Lestat didn't even try.

Louis, poor Louis. Living with guilt and sorrow isn't easy and he's living through it again now. And he can't even trust his own memories. I need him happy. He's not gonna be but I need him to be.

Also his live burial?? like fuck. That was vile. Like we know that he is fine now but still.

Previews. Santiago will die and if he doesn't I will kill him. Louis is a pyromaniac (yay), I'm ready for the whole coven to burn.

From the trailers we didn't yet see the bookshelves falling on Daniel so it has to be next episode. Also we didn't yet see the Loustat hug and I don't think it's what happens after the trial, especially not with Louis coming to kill Lestat, so that would mean it has to have happened later (Dubai maybe? I mean we do need Lestat's side of the story next season so we could get him now.)

[poetriarchy]

IWTV THOUGHTS!!!!

someone else said this felt like less strong of an ep compared to others this season and i see that as far as it being more set-up for upcoming plot rather than plot itself. but i think it's still a really interesting ep with some really strong moments.... digs into the characters in a way the other eps so far haven't had as much time for.

louis giving up on photography, then later letting go of the ghost lestat. and getting this outside opinion from the art dealer guy that he's got an eye for others' work but his own photos aren't strong. i think it's him giving up on trying to fill the hole in his life that was left by (the things he liked about) lestat. i.e. giving up on trying to be someone he's not. and then acknowledging that ghost lestat's commentary is actually just his own words (the "say apple" dialogue). jacob mentions in the post-ep that louis kind of falls into a lestat role in his relationship with armand because he knows he can manipulate him and get away with a lot, because armand is so insecure. so i think the moment of lestat's ghost losing its illusion and disappearing is in part louis absorbing that part of himself back into himself. acknowledging that he too can be powerful, he too desires control. that's not lestat, that's always existed in him.

WHICH sets up louis saying to armand "i don't know much about art, but i know a lot about running things". louis clearly retains his insecurity about not being able to be an artist like the artists he admires—and this continues to the present day as we see with the photos—but here he's willing to fall back into the role that feels good, the role that he knows he's good at. there's also that funny sort of parallel set up here between louis as pimp and louis as art dealer/theatre business guy/whatever. you can kind of picture him pulling the strings behind the scenes at the theatre, and doing it well. that's unlikely to actually happen now that the coven has claudia's old journals (and also just because they dislike him so much lol) but it's fun to think about.

there's also an interesting connection there with armand's personal history—being sexually exploited, and also being an artist's muse (i didn't catch some of that part bc no subtitles, so idk if i'm fully correct on that). louis' own personal history as a pimp works as a crazy foil to that, even if it's just on a subtextual level. the two of them are not on as level of ground as we might have thought, and armand as the eldest may not have the power over louis that one might assume from their present-day interactions. armand's "yes maitre" is CRAZY

anyways CLAUDIA. i'm kind of wishing we got more inside her head in this ep, especially because she doesn't have that much time left... it's interesting because you can see her spiraling and she says to madeleine how she feels broken, that there's something inherently wrong with her, but even then we still don't get a full window into her mind. it makes sense given the limited perspective of louis and armand as narrators, but still kind of sucks because she's the central female character of the whole show lol.

engaging with the show on its own terms, though, it's interesting how it's set up that claudia is denied subjectivity on multiple levels in this episode.

she's always been denied subjectivity by virtue of being perceived as a child. she's further denied subjectivity by being told to "live" the role of lulu by the coven she calls her family, being told to fully embody this naive, reckless, neglected child. this makes it so that later, when she behaves recklessly (being w/ madeleine), when she calls out louis for again prioritizing his romantic relationships over her, the audience is invited to ask—how much of this is her, and how much is just the role she's literally been forced to embody? she IS naive, and reckless, and neglected, but that is her real life, and her real emotions. by making her play a theatrical part that's a flat, cruel synecdoche of her life, you make her feel as though her real life and justified emotions are nothing but the tantrum of a stupid child. then you invite that (mis?)reading of her by the audience. then maybe, after enough time, she becomes that caricature of herself and is finally lost in the manner that armand suggested (...and orchestrated) in the previous episode.

and THEN, once she's gone, you have the additional layer of lost subjectivity. because she's no longer there to tell her story.

seriously fucked up

i guess the ep is all about ROLES. louis, claudia, armand, everyone. kind of obvious but still a useful shorthand for understanding how louis' and claudia's story arcs here overlap. even in the place where louis says he felt more free (as a vampire, as a Black man, as a gay man) than he did in the states, even in the old country that claudia longed for, they're still both coming up against that double consciousness.

looking forward to rewatching on my usual subtitled piracy site instead of having to cycle thru vpn servers for mega lmao

[chicalepidopterareblogs]

My theory for what is going on in S1 of IWTV (and what could happen in the next seasons)

So I was re-reading the last few pages of IWTV to grab inspiration for a drawing and I realised I have forgotten something very important: that it was actually Armand who wanted to get Louis (who was already done with Armand and with life in general) back to NOLA, so that Louis could feel "alive" again (and maybe don't abandon him) by remembering all the passion and rage he felt once back then. Now, I think this situation mirrors perfectly the one we have going on in Dubai in the present day. If so, it would make sense for Armand to make Louis revisit the interview and manipulate his memories so his resentment and anger against Lestat would grow stronger (re: episode 5) not just for the sake of jealousy but like in a messed up way Armand thinks is helping Louis out of his apathy that is slowly dragging him to his own destruction ("the vampire is bored"). This is actually something so in character for Armand to do. Let's not forget that this is the same vampire that cut Nicolas' hands off just because, acording to Lestat, he thought he was helping him recovering his sanity. Nevertheless, Louis feels guilty for whatever he did or happened to Lestat (he's convinced that he's dead, probably) ("am I the man you came to kill? I did a terrible thing once, it wouldn't surprise me"), and no amount of dreadful memories would make Louis hate Lestat, he just doesn't allow himself to ("are we the sum of our worst moments?")

That being said, I do think Louis is accomplice, at least in some extent. I believe that Louis, with his natural passivity (aggravated by his emotional state), just let Armand do whatever he wanted (I like to think there's some sort of agreement too anyways). But at the end of the day Louis is just determined to do what he wants, that is, put an end to his existence ("you're chronicling a suicide", "what do you think will happen when you publish this book?" etc.)

However, Louis didn't expect Daniel's questions to be able to tear down the carefully curated narrative he had built to both, keep Armand satisfied and achieve his own purpose: to die as someone who wasn't hated by his daughter for having failed her, basically. After all, he remembered Danny as a rather mediocre journalist. Funny enough, the moments when Louis reaches the state of rage Armand could probably be trying to induce by disturbing his memories, are actually because of Daniel and it is then when Armand has to intervene to soothe him so he won't hurt Daniel. Armand is juggling between keeping Louis by his side and also keeping Daniel safe from Louis's anger.

The thing is, this whole situation is 100% compatible with Devil's Minion: once Armand knew of Louis's intentions, he could have easily asked Louis to repeat the interview so he could finally turn Daniel ("this time I won't save your life") and take him as a companion once Louis was gone (don't get me wrong, I believe Armand wants Daniel genuinely but I think it's just the perfect excuse to set it all up). They could also have an agreement for when it was the right moment for Armand to stop being Rashid ("please, stop Rashid"). I love the little game the writers layed out for us with the dialogue in Dubai, when we can't be sure who Rashid is actually talking to (if Daniel or Louis) or the sentences that lead to equivocal interpretations ("please, stop Rashid" again, or " are you awake? "I can be".) I believe most of this season's inconsistencies hide in those little exchanges. Their conversation could still be ambiguous in S2 though but in another sort of way, maybe taking advantage of Danny's growing confusion having to face his own memories.

With this, we would have the penthouse sort of fixed up. We would still have the basement left and whatever it's going on with Lestat. If things go more or less like I wrote, it's not hard to imagine that Lestat will appear just in time to save Louis at some point in S2 and from then on, he will proceed to tell his story to Louis in S3. If Louis gets injured, they could make them have Their Own Conversation while Louis is healing an Lestat is taking care of him. As for the basement, I do believe The Groan are Those Who Must Be Kept and that Louis and Armand are the ones in charge of keeping an eye on them now. Danny could take Louis' place in S3 so he and Armand could have their own plot doing this task, maybe Marius could join them too somehow or even introducing the Talamasca. I also believe (it's more a really really strong hope tho🤞) that we won't have to wait till S3 to see actual glimpses of Lestat's past. If the writers are generous and smart enugh they could make Claudia and Louis bump into Gabrielle while in Europe. And there will be plenty of opportunities for them to know more about Nicolas in the theatre: from finding his written plays, a portrait of him or even reading a member of the coven's mind for actual vivid pictures. This would make an hypothetical conversation between Louis and Lestat way more rich and interesting.

[ca-suffit]

I was going to say this off anon but I have a second blog for iwtv and I don't want the og one out in the fandom kind of. But I never understood why people say Louis was abusive to lestat and the instances they point out are a) neglect b) not being affectionate c) withholding affection. Which like. Ok. Maybe my inexperience but I just don't think not giving love back in this instance is abusive. Because I genuinely do think he wasn't capable of love in those times. Like early on we see him lying to his family juggling 3 roles to spend time with lestat and shopping dates and what not. He was loving. And then HIS CHILD RAN AWAY. i don't think any caring parent is capable of love in that time. And then there's his malnutrition which ofc lowers his sex drive and the mental toll malnutrition takes is depression and anhedonia. But to call that manipulation??? To call that abuse?? Withholding affection as abuse in this case? Like mf What makes you think he was capable of love you can't deny something you don't have/aren't capable of!? His child is missing. His child is gone do you get it??? He's supposed to be making date plans??? Ik withholding affection and then lovebombing is a thing for abusers but ffs. He's depressed that's why he isn't loving when you're depressed you're literally not capable of it because your brain has drained all of it out WHAT DO YOU MEAN WITHHOLDING LOVE? Same with Armand. His child is dead. A part of Louis died with her. Is he supposed to be ffs. I don't want to type anymore. And ykw both these partners have the power to leave at any time. If you're not getting love that's what you do i get lestat why he wouldn't in America like he'd be pretty much alone and Armand always had that choice too. It's their specific personalities which made them stick with him but at the same time.my guy you're both more powerful than him fucking leave if it's so bad. But that's what love does and they stayed but at no point was it abusive on Louis' end?? At no point did it justify the abuse he's met with at lestat's or armand's hands??? And there's always intent behind abuse and if Louis' is not loving it's not because of some scheme. No his child is missing. The child.is also female and tiny we know what happens to them when they're alone how tf do you not get what state he'd be in?? And to expect love from him? And that's what's actually funny to me about both lestat and Armand like they really didn't think about what the loss of a child would mean to both their respective relationships with Louis. Like they really thought a parent could chill live laugh love with them while his child is gone. Ok. Sure why not. Um yea. Sorry for the long rant. Anyway I just don't think withholding affection applies to anyone here least of all Louis and never Louis no matter what the "pAtTeRn" is with him. No the pattern is depression brought on by the loss of his child. If you had actual brains you'd make that connection but no. No. Since this is the abusive partners yaoi show we have to see abuse where it isn't and minimize where it is. It'll be wonderful when Marius the guy who does loooooooove children will show up. Then we'll surely talk about love and loss and see the connections

ppl just made shit up bcuz they needed to soften lestat tbh. then armand to a degree too.

the angle never was "what are louis' partners doing to help him thru these bad times." it was always "louis isn't loving *them* enough!!" louis is also younger than *both* of them and comes from a different life experience which is still alive for him too, unlike their individual experiences and/or traumas. armand is still experiencing racism but it's not like the antiblackness louis and claudia face.......which then ends up in the trial too?! which *both* louis nb partners have a part in???

u bring up a good point for the marius angle too. this fandom makes me sick lol.

[ca-suffit]

Will never forget how when TCA photo shoots dropped and ppl were rightfully wanting to see more Jacob/Assad pairings for the promos, Virginia was getting asks saying that they were glad loumand shippers and those who wanted to see more jassad were “getting humbled” because they were getting “too cocky”, she was very much agreeing and adding on to these asks. It’s just really funny to me how she is always like “you should read the books and listen to the cast and crew, because then you’d know loumand is not the main couple this season!!” followed w that Sam gif she always hilariously misuses when like… the book and the show literally say the opposite… Reading the s2 reviews obviously confirms this lol but it reminded me of that moment and I had to laugh. So crazy, imagine seeing ppl excited for non-white queer rep and being glad they didn’t get what they wanted (and supposedly were never going to get it)… wanting to “humble” them… and saying you’re not racist…

I remembered this and here's the actual post :)

I also found some interesting things I never knew about while looking for this post so let's share those too :) :)

This was happening when I first made this account, so I remember it rly well. I was replying directly to all these ppl as long as I could. They're always saying stuff happens on anon bts so I was making it clear from the start that they could "finally" respond in public. Isn't that what they wanted? lol ig not.

Here's the only direct contact I had with virginia.

I *just* saw she replied to it, but take a wild guess why I wasn't notified of it. cuz u know I'd have responded if I had been. These ppl only get loud when they know there's no real "threat" of an interaction.

do u see how she didn't speak back to the things I was talking about in the post tho? she had to deflect again to "u hate lestat," "read the books," "ur speaking over jacob, A BLACK MAN" (their favorite shit to say like it's such a slam dunk?)

She also posted this

she was on a mission then to "prove" the bullying was real because this is the time when nalyra got caught doing all of this and they needed a distraction from that. she reblogged that showmey0urfangs PSA from the previous november too and aimed the fandom at black fans again, saying this was all part of an ongoing bts bullying issue. if it is then why tf can't u all ever have better receipts? why are these PSAs literally untagged shit from ppl's personal accounts or in direct reblogs to u and yet ur claiming it's all happening on anon. which one is it and why aren't u posting those things then? jfc they think we're all stupid.......

what I think is crazy too is the PSA caps reminded me of the timeline of stuff more. there used to be louder white ppl in the fandom about racism (and I remember this even more because showmey0urfangs got so mad about that in this post, trying to defend white fandom by screaming "I'M BLACK AND U HAVE TO LISTEN TO ME" at white ppl who pointed out she was doing racist shit) and it's funny how nalyra and virginia and them didn't start to be more openly racist like this until *after* those ppl weren't here anymore? crazy how u suddenly grew extra racist courage when u felt u wouldn't have as much pushback now. I don't remember them ever going after any users who they *knew* were white and saying this stuff either. if they feel any hint like ur prbly not white *and* not a book reader then look how the big voice comes out. but this isn't motivated by racism right lol?

look at this too

she answered so many asks back then to get sympathy and frame herself as a victim (to again distract from the nalyra shit), which is classic white woman / fandom manipulation.

idek how u write something like this tho and believe it makes sense? ppl speaking up about fandom racism is *always* going to be about fandom racism. u go in any fandom and it's there. it's never a cover up for something else. that's what white fandom *wants* u to think because they want to get as much support as possible. they know if they soothe white feelings about race and say "this isn't a real issue, it's about shipping / it's because I'm being unfairly targeted / it's because they're jealous" then most ppl *will* choose to believe that and defend them because it's the better feeling choice for them. talking about racism sucks. being on the side of loudly talking about racism sucks. you don't get to exist in fandom and "just have fun" when you do this. that's why most ppl stop doing it and either become white fandom themselves or leave public spaces for it.

look at this recent thing too

this is a manipulation attempt. she's aware of fans being upset at amc catering to white ppl for this and this is her way to cover up more for white fandom and say "I'm not an ANGRY BITCH about it (unlike some ppl), come support me, I'm better and nicer and treat ppl fairly."

anyway, fuck this racist bitch and her weird fucking ego over gatekeeping garbage ass anne rice books.