#the first chapter sets him up as a character who fundamentally SAYS THINGS HE DOESNT MEAN

[imbrella]

one thing that always gets me when it comes to bkdk fanon is the bk "when have i ever said anything i don't mean!" line

like cmon. all the damn time. that's your fucking character, to scream 'die' and 'i'm gonna kill you' etc etc and NOT mean it

that's why the apology hit so hard - because bk is such an acts of service type, i feel like a lot of people just assumed there were going to be no words spoken, much less such a meaningful admission

[solarapplejuice]

what the fuck is going on in oshi no ko bruh ;n; (part 1)

155 spoilers / spoilers for all of the oshi no ko manga akasaka is scaring me maybe i just have too many rose-tinted memories of love is war but it feels so much more tightly written than whatever is going on in onk right now. the most recent chapter and really the entire 15 year lie arc feels like a bit of a letdown compared to what was being built up by this entire story.

my fuckin thesis is this: the final arc of this story reeks of akasaka not liking the story or the characters and wanting to get things over with. he insists on ending almost EVERY chapter with a cliffhanger instead of letting the story progress naturally, concluding core and fundamental parts of the story's plot in one to two chapters which denies them of further growth and speculation, the worst thing you can do to your fucking mystery novel. admittedly this is a pretty biased opinion but i will explain!

the recent chapter is the most emblematic of this because it's the perfect embodiment of why oshi no ko is so frustrating, because if i were to describe the narrative up until this point it sounds like it makes sense, but the way it was handled and the sheer SPEED at which it came out is what makes it bad. specifically in 154 and 155 we learn that kamiki just didn't think that ai actually loved him, but turns out she did and now he regrets killing her! and it turns out NINO also had involvement in ai's death and is maybe the actual villain.

none of this is necessarily bad and i actually really like the idea of nino being the true antagonist at the end of the tunnel. nino is just more compelling; she's ai's coworker and peer but can never be an equal to her because she wont let herself, because she wont let ai in, because she both looks up to ai as an idol to be loved and despises her as an entertainer to compete with. if we are to believe that 45510 is from her perspective, it makes this turn of events all the more tragic.

kamiki never playing a big part is also kind of expected. queer manga fan moment but i never thought the idea of ex bf being the killer was super compelling esp since you can see the "she never really loved me" coming from a mile away, so it's good to see it being played straight for AI's development. turns out that ai "lies are love" hoshino was just trying to protect him from the inevitable backlash of the world's top idol having a boyfriend and thought she was doing the best for her first relationship as a teenager who was forced to grow up too fast.

all of this is really cool, too bad it doesnt land like that in the story because it all gets resolved in one chapter! just because kamiki was the red herring doesn't mean that he should have been wasted like that, it would have been nice to see more conflict between him and the hoshino siblings, perhaps threatening other characters the way he has other idols. lets not forget that this dude is a serial killer who likes targeting women! we were waiting for him to try and pull something on say, kana or akane (i have FEELINGS about them and ill get to that). meanwhile all that would have been done to set nino up as the true villain in murder-mystery fashion is to just include 45510 as a part of the manga before the 15 year lie arc. it would be a one-off look into the horrors of the ways in which ai hoshino's would-be peers rejected her as an equal, later re-contextualized as the hiding-in-plain-sight motive and backstory for the villain and the entire plot as a whole.

we don't get any of that, instead we get aqua and ruby moving past kamiki so quickly that you almost get the sense that they knew more than the audience. which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but feels almost insulting considering how important he and the conspirators of ai hoshino's death have been so far. nino being reintroduced again is jarring since the setup with her intervening in kana's attempts to emulate her is not enough of a setup, and instead feels like they wanted to hamfist her in as an 11th hour threat.

and the problem is, pretty much every major narrative plot point in oshi no ko has been resolved like this and its a pattern that seems to not stop. it started when goro and sarina finally found each other, a moment that is so important and we've been waiting for a while, and it spiraled from there. aqua and ruby's incest will-they-wont-they was pretty much handwaved, the very fucking important and good conflict of ruby and kana's competition for success mirroring ai and nino was denied any sort of growth or possibility in the like three chapters they spent on it. it's just like, theres so many things that while they have been alluded to before, that's just it: theyve been ALLUDED to. the reasons for these conflicts to happen are there, but the conflicts never really got the chance to happen, instead it's just a character initiating the fight and the other character shutting them down a chapter later by being the bigger person or whatever, something that is jarring for a cast of characters defined by not simply bad communication but the BELIEF and CORE THEME that LYING IS LOVE! the very thesis that we're supposed to be constantly contending with, if it's true or not, and the reason that these conflicts drag out; because the characters lie, and sometimes those lies can make relationships worse instead of better for some illusion of stability. why are these characters all of a sudden excellent communicators when they historically haven't been, in a MYSTERY story where incomplete information and unresolved threads should be common place? the story ending soon is not an excuse for this to be happening! it doesn't feel like we're earning these conclusions, more like aka is forcefully shutting the lid on pandora's box and letting it blow up in our faces.

ill be making a second part of my thoughts since this is already so long but i also gotta talk about how akasaka did my girls kana and akane dirty.

[felikatze]

the recent chapters r really making me like olivia like damn. at first she's just kinda this pitiful person to be saved from her awful situation, yeah? but the story still says, "her survival is super important, actually" and it doesn't rlly click. cuz after she's free olivia turns into a bit of a stock character.

she's then just always kinda flirty and irresponsible and clingy. and that makes sense to me, cuz her upbringing was super strict and repressive, so she wants to sever all ties with that and is acting in the opposite way than she was raised. priests of her religion aren't allowed to marry so she starts flirting with reinhardt not because she's romantically interested in him but because she enjoys the promiscuity and he's the one who helped her most so he's easiest to talk to like this. this also shows especially in how she reacts to compliments back; she becomes easily flustered because the flirting is just a face she puts on for fun and beneath that she's still deeply inexperienced with such things.

the sponsorship event chapters really hammer home that she's a kind person truly deserving the title of saint. she's been raised to do good and be kind that she doesn't know how to live for herself at all.

add to that the gradual collapse of her religious beliefs. obviously she cuts ties with the knights templar cuz they tried to kill her and her own stepdad lead the charge to do so, resulting in a distrust toward the gods, because what kind god would have followers like this? but she at least still believes the gods exist. But then the tiamata arc happens and she discovers that even the gods themselves are a falsehood. the gods of purity and corruption are the same being in two directions; so if your own faith decides the nature of your god, does said god exist at all? if your will shapes god's will, does god have a will at all? she's basically discovered this setting's version of atheism.

tlde she's just plain lost. And yeah the novel is always blatant abt feeding you character details like this but i still think it's set up well.

all her eccentric behaviours are attempts to find herself but nothing sticks. she has no more dreams, no ambitions, just drifting with the flow. she just doesn't know how to have ambitions not dictated to her, how to do anything besides following orders.

and again like. the story says "her survival is going to change things" and we learn its bcuz olivia is an insane fucking powerhouse who can outclass ellen. and with her being the way she is now, any faction could snap her up. she'd just go with the first one that suited her fancy. as long as its not the knights templar, she'll be fine with anything.

which i think reflects a lot of people with impending graduation on the horizon? i sure know when i finished high school i didnt know what to do. i'm happy with my career path atm but i also feel like i could've been happy doing anything else. i just stumbled into it. olivia reflects that feeling of not knowing who you want to be, with all these external pressures, religion, family, peers, that have all these expectations for her.

also how the story then immediatly contrasts this against reinhardt. he's presented as like, a pretty selfish, self-assured character. he knows who he is and what he wants. but olivia asks him, "do you?" and challenges him to reevalute. cuz is he selfish? he's just acting that way, when he's actually concerned with the well-being of others above all, same as olivia. the only thoughts he'll spare for himself are for his own survival.

and like, again!! olivia was putting on a selfish seeming face when she's fundamentally still just kind beneath it all and both of them don't know how to be any other way!!

hell, even the circumstances are similar! olivia ditched the knights templar to save her own life but doesnt know what to do with the life she saved, and reinhardt escaped the demon king's castle to save his own skin. the main difference here is reinhardt is still working toward averting the crisis he's written into prophecy. he's still essentially trapped in the beginning of olivia's arc. so comparing the two is asking what will he do when the world's saved?

Chapter 244 i am kissing you on the mouth.

[fearlessjournalism]

ok here comes the first of my hopefully more coherent the burning god posts (spoilers in case you haven’t muted the tags!! last warning!!!)

the last chapter of tbg does. a lot. obviously. and i have so many thoughts about a lot of it. but one of the most interesting things about it to me is how quickly it deconstructs the idea of kitay that we want to see, all contained in “I didn’t think I could, either. I thought I couldn’t deny you anything. But I can, I always could, I’d just never really tried.” there’s so much contained in this about his relationship with rin, and it’s all messy and heartbreaking, but I want to talk about what it does for kitay himself.

the dragon republic established that, internally, kitay is really fucking angry all of the time (and understandably so, given the things he’s seen! I’m not trying to undercut that by any means). it’s this deep, burning rage that surprises rin, and yet we don’t openly see it expressed much in the burning god. sure, he gets in some arguments and he snaps at people sometimes, but with a couple exceptions that’s irritation more than anger. it’s not something that would’ve been totally unexpected from sinegard kitay. none of that is an expression of soul-deep anger, and at parts of tbg I was kind of wondering where it was, and in a more general sense, what he wanted.

the last chapter I think set out that he doesn’t just swallow his anger down, it doesn’t just go nowhere, it’s in the things he allows rin to do. at the same time she’s using him as a conduit for the fire, he’s using her as a conduit for his anger, because if she expresses it for both of them he doesn’t have to feel the same kind of responsibility. I don’t think he wants for people to get hurt, I really don’t, but I think on a deep subconscious level (that he maybe won’t even necessarily admit to himself), there’s a kind of perverse gratification in allowing this expression of rage and vengeance.

it’s not that I don’t believe him when he says he didn’t think he could stop her. I do think he truly believed that, and I think part of it is absolutely just that he loves her and has trouble denying her things, but I think if he really wanted to know he would’ve tested it earlier. even back when he first became her anchor, I think they tested just about everything, but I don’t think they tried that. maybe he was afraid of getting overwritten, but again, they could test it on a small scale in a controlled environment. he’s so analytical that that seems like a weird thing not to want to know, but I think deep down he didn’t want to know because not knowing gives him plausible deniability. if even he doesnt think he can stop her, he doesn’t have to admit to himself or anyone else that part of him doesn’t always want to occupy the moral high ground.

so much of the fact that we’re drawn in by this (or at least I was, I guess I can’t speak for everyone) is that we only see him through rin, who loves him intensely but fundamentally sees him as weak. she knows he’s a genius, obviously, an incredible strategist and inventor, but she sees him as weak-willed and trying too hard to be Good. we don’t see much to dispute that either, at least in this book. he’s never in battle, which prevents her from remembering until the end that he’s a goddamn good soldier. he wins a couple arguments about costs and ethics, but loses a lot of others. and we know rin is using him. the nature of the anchor bond kind of ensures that, of course, but she’s also just very up front about the fact that she’s using him. it makes it harder to see the subtler ways in which he’s using her, both because it’s less conscious and because she doesn’t believe he could.

and like... it kind of hurts to realize that he’s allowed himself to be a conduit for the worst of her actions for the whole book, even the ones that he put up a fight against on the surface level. we want to believe that he’s Good, that he’s there through all of this both bc he loves rin and can’t leave and because he needs to be the mitigating force, always pushing her towards the lesser evil. and I don’t think any of those things are untrue. those are all very real motivations for him, but I think this part at the end pointed to something else as well. maybe it makes him a less good person than we wanted to believe, but it makes him a miles more interesting character.

[toxicpineapple]

Please give me your amami essay, I'd like to know the TEA! I was also gonna ask for the mastermind essay, but honestly I REALLY wanna hear your thoughts on his characterization (and your thoughts on his shitty fanon characterization)

HOOO BOY OKAY. this is good, it gives me an excuse to procrastinate on reading that new amasai fic on the latest feed. (note that i REALLY WANT TO READ IT, i’m just anticipating commenting and tbh the spoons,,, i lack them. it’s okay though i’ll get over it.)

so!!! let’s start with general attitude, because i think that amami’s is really unique. he’s a subversive character. in general i feel like that was the biggest goal with his character design and personality combination-- he looks like a total playboy, kaede even comments as much moooore than once. but he’s the absolute opposite. i’ll rant about that in a bit. i’ve already gone off on a tangent and i said i was gonna talk about attitude.

amami is laid back, but not to the point of complacency. y’know what i mean? like, he’s relaxed, but he’s on his guard, too. his speaking style is pretty casual (typically he’ll greet people with a “hey,” whenever he’s slightly uncomfortable he’ll probably say “haha”... this isn’t necessarily a canon thing but i like it when people have him talking in sentence fragments. ex. “forgot to grab my jacket” or “wanted to get a snack” sort of thing) and that’s just,,, the type of person he is. he’s casual. it’s remarkable considering how wealthy amami is-- though bear in mind, he still IS wealthy, so there are bound to be things he doesn’t understand about people-- that he can be so normal and like, down to earth, in a way. when people mess around with him he’ll probably just laugh it off.

to cite a fic i read once that had REALLY phenomenal characterisation, imo, ouma ends up dumping a bucket of water on amami’s head (on accident; there are some semantics and i won’t get into it but again the fic is really good and funny and you should totally read it) and amami just squeezes out his shirt and makes a couple cracks before walking away. (sorry this isn’t meant to be a “dumping love on fics” post but GOD that fic is hysterical.) he’s an enabler too, at least i think so-- remember that anthology chapter where kaede, shuichi, and kaito are trying to catch ouma and kaito sets an “amami trap” to stop him? all ouma has to do is flutter his eyelashes and go “pleeeaaase let me go amam~niichan!” and then he just. he does. what a fucking doormat i can’t believe him.

he’s like that though. i feel like big brother stuff is kind of his weakness. (and not in a kinky way alright i will destroy you. he might make a joke about having a sister complex in one of his ftes but he DOESNT that joke was just tasteless COME ON RANTARO WHFKLDSJFK) which brings me to his whole older brother thing, because like,,, YEAH. guy grew up with twelve younger sisters!!! and he remarked in his ftes with shuichi that they’re mostly step sisters, which means he just.... has a nurturing personality. i mean amami is somewhat conservative (if you try to come on to him during salmon mode you will be brutally rebuffed; amami tells u to keep your horny thoughts to yourself, though you shouldn’t be ashamed of having them) so i imagine he’s not the biggest fan of his father’s tendencies-- not that i don’t NECESSARILY interpret his father’s behaviour as him sleeping around.... it’s possible he just likes children and deliberately marries women who already have kids so he can take them... i mean it’s exceedingly decent to keep considering ur step children to be your children after a divorce so i have a hard time reconciling this common image of rantaro’s dad as some kind of player figure with the impression i got of him in my head but that’s just my daddy issues coming into play again so ignore me-- and yet he still considers all his sisters to be his sisters.

not to mention he feels a great deal of like, responsibility, when it comes to taking care of them. i find it impossible to believe that all the losses were his fault. you could ARGUE that the one he tells you about with his younger sister was to be blamed on him? but i mean, amami is a child. he didn’t even know his sister was following him out. sure he blames himself for it but there’s no real good way to blame him just considering that,,, he’s a kid. and he was so young-- he was obviously so young-- when it happened. so like, not to be all Good and Bad on you, but i do feel that amami is fundamentally a good reason. and you SEE that too, in the killing game. i’m certain he was on the fence about trusting that note he woke up with. would you trust it? he had no memory whatsoever of writing it, all he had were the words “ultimate hunt” and a map of the school to guide his way. i imagine he wasn’t even sure if he should do what the note said. but then ryoma started talking about sacrificing himself for everyone else, and rantaro probably thought, “well... if i have a way to get us out of here, even if it doesn’t work, i can’t just let ryoma sacrifice himself without having tried.”

rantaro is self-reliant too, i think. in the talent development plan mukuro remarks that she noticed he was injured a good number of times, but never said anything about it because she felt like he was trying to keep it under wraps. (note: good idea for an amami and mukuro friendship fic. must write. someone remind me.) i think amami kind of feels isolated from his classmates? either because he has these perceived notions of like, independence and whatever, not burdening anybody else with his problems (honestly not to go chabashira on main but wtf men ask for help c’mon i promise if you find a person who’s worth being in ur life they won’t treat you like shit for feeling ur feelings) or just because he’s not around a lot. i think amami is the type of person to invalidate his own problems a lot, or at least downplay them to others. he blames himself for all his sisters going missing, took the responsibility to find them all. you know the blow that’s going to be to his education? traveling around the world looking for twelve different people? and he plans to keep doing that!!! forever!!! ugh ;-; poor babey. but anyway i feel like he doesn’t want to tell anybody about his problems because he feels like it’s his thing to deal with.

i also believe that rantaro is a bit prideful. i mean, anyone can be prideful under the correct circumstances, and in fact there is a great deal of pride that simply isn’t addressed by the fandom in analysing characters and that makes me really sad because pride is such a SEXY character flaw but i’ll leave that alone for now. he hates being told to give up on what he’s doing. i mean everyone in his life has been telling him to stop looking for his sisters. that’s got to suck, but also, DAMN look at what his reaction was. this utter refusal to open up to anybody. shuichi’s ftes with him are spent pretty much just trying to get amami to stop squirreling around and actually TALK to him. amami asks shuichi at one point if he has any siblings and when the response is negative, amami immediately assumes that shuichi wouldn’t understand, would tell him to quit. just like everyone else.

(i mean, even with kiyo and mukuro, whose circumstances mirror his almost painfully at least in willingness to sacrifice stuff for their siblings, he doesn’t tell them what he’s doing, just that he’s doing it for his sister-- singular-- and that he would do anything for her. kiyo and mukuro!! out of ANYBODY, they would understand. in tdp they DO talk about it-- kiyo encourages him to keep searching-- as his friend...... fuck amaguji is such a good ship even if the implications of kiyo saying he wants to meet rantaro’s sister after he finds her bc she must be suuuuch a good person if he’s doing all this for her are uhhh not great-- and mukuro immediately understands when he says it’s to do with his younger sister. like, full stop. she just goes “okay” and goes serious. all at once. damn rantaro, mukuro, and kiyo really do be a power trio huh. i need to write more fic about them i miss them.)

this is more into baseless conjecture so take this as you will, but i also think rantaro is kind of,,, easily distracted lmao. he mentions helping out a village with a disease-- been a while since i’ve seen his ftes, sorry for any inconsistencies-- among other shit and like... bro what are you DOING. you have sisters to find. and he can’t be getting injured all the time, getting wrapped up with gang violence and all that, looking for people who were lost traveling. i mean sure, you could say they went all over the world and got wrapped up in all sorts of mess, but more likely they stayed in roughly the same area, waiting for him to come back. and also? i have a hard time believing his sisters were lost in these remote forest places people always put them. COME ON, who the fuck goes to some village for a vacation? a RICH person no less. i’m on another tangent. sorry. but yeah, i love the people who write rantaro as an absolute airhead. i headcanon that he has no way of judging the passing of time and thus is the absolute worst in the bathroom bc he sits there for twenty minutes thinking about the universe and then walks out like “:) ok ready to go” like wtf are you even doing there stupid akljdf anyway.

i think rantaro is softhearted and thoughtful. in his ftes with kaede he demonstrates an ability to look past what people show at surface level-- you can ask him about miu, kiibo, or kiyo and he’ll give u Good Fucking Insight(tm)-- and analyse their intentions more closely. and i mean this is just from a couple day’s interaction. he’s down to earth for sure, understanding when people are intimidated but also caring and observant. (his “talk about a first impression” line is so fuckaindgf.... good for his characterisation. i love romantic amamatsu but he so clearly takes an older brother role in those ftes, he’s really such a sweetheart,,,, hnadhfkj ;w;) rantaro is just. he’s patient with people. and selfless and kind. idk it’s all the good stuff. warm smiles and indulgence. all the way. probably lets kokichi steal his lunch.

THAT BEING SAID: i think rantaro also has a very serious streak. he doesn’t show it a lot but there are moments. he’s self-sacrificing-- i mean, obviously. he was the ultimate survivor, after all. some people hc that he got there by killing, or maybe everyone else in his game died but one person, but bro that doesn’t make any sense???? no. what happened was there were probably like three people left, and monokuma was like “one has to be sacrificed” and rantaro thought, welp. it’ll be me then. and i wouldn’t say the choice would be immediate because rantaro DOES has self preservation instincts-- he’s only human-- but i don’t think he’d have let anybody else make that decision. i think ultimately he would try to protect other people.

he can be scarily confrontational too. i do believe he’d usually only do it in the defense of others-- like, his base instinct is to protect. i read a fic once (oumami, unfortunately) where ouma was committing crimes and went to hide behind rantaro and rantaro instinctively moved to protect him, and that’s.... that’s good characterisation. point one to the oumami stans, point zero to me. motherfucker. (love u oumami stans, it’s just not my thing.) i really like it in fics when he’s stern, lecturing people for hurting other people, but i also think rantaro is too understanding to be truly unforgiving. like if two people got into an argument and one came out of it more hurt than the other, i don’t believe that amami would be unsympathetic to the less hurt one. i think he’s mature enough to take a look at the situation and go, well, okay.

i think he’d be TERRIFYING when angry. he’s patient, y’know? so it takes a lot to get him to that point. he’s really, ah, accommodating of people. puts up with a lot of bs kind of thing. but i imagine the best way to get him to snap is by hurting someone he cares about. and at that point: ur fucked. i’ve never written it before because i’m terrified of what i’d do with that kind of power but.... imagine the shuichi whump. holy god.

i’m NOT here to talk about shuichi whump (though i’m down to do that any time of day believe me) so i’m gonna like. shhhhiiiiiiffft.

i project on characters a lot so at this point it’s difficult to distinguish if some of my characterisation things are like, actually characterisation things? or just me venting, so like, take nothing i say as canon, but also,,, akdsjf we love a man who bottles up his emotions.

because rantaro just doesn’t have the TIME to be crying all over the place. he was probably a total wreck when he lost his first sister. and his second. and maybe even his third. but then he started to gather his composure, more and more. because if there’s anything that rantaro has in excess, it’s composure. the more losses he suffers the more of a shield he builds up. and the self hatred and the guilt and the blame and the responsibility are piling up and up and up, but god he hates it when other people see him sad, because he needs to be the strong one, he can’t just pile that up on other people. that’s not their weight to carry, and besides, he’s the older brother, he should be able to deal with his own problems. he’d just be burdening the people he cares about by letting them see his demons.

and then he doesn’t have any coping mechanisms because he never lets himself feel enough to cope, and when people get close enough to actually CARE about him, when people notice he’s upset or struggling and offer him help, he doesn’t know how to deal with it-- and god he hates lashing out at people but it’s so much easier to deal with the consequences of being mean than the consequences of breaking down. only conflict is scary when he’s one of the causes so he needs time to recover, and well, what better way to do that than to get on a plane or a boat and go look for his sisters? after all he’s wasting time whenever he’s just sitting around, they’re still out there and he needs to find them, so might as well just keep pushing himself to the limits, because it’s his fault they’re lost anyway...

something mukuro said to rantaro in the talent development plan stuck in my brain. like, initially it’s just a funny and cute interaction (rantaro even blushes and a blushing rantaro is a GOOD FUCKING RANTARO) but when i thought about it more i was like.... huh. hm. angst ideas. mukuro makes a joke about rantaro going over to her stand at the festival to flirt with her-- i think that’s the context, i know it’s play-boy related-- and rantaro assures her (as he always does) that he’s not that kind of guy, and mukuro agrees, saying she was just pulling his leg and that he seems like the kind of person who gets dumped because he doesn’t show his emotions enough. rantaro laughs, blushes, and says “haha, not touching that one,” and akdjfnnnnnn god mukuro you’re so blunt i love you fkdjf but wow. i usually have rantaro as not having dated anyone, just because i feel like he kind of hyperfocuses on finding his sisters? and given that he’s like sixteen (seventeen at the MOST) there’s not much of a timeline for when his sisters got lost. in my fic search i had to cram all the losses into a four-year period and damn that was rough. anyway i just don’t think he’d really prioritise romance. but that reaction implies that that’s EXACTLY his experience with romance, which makes a bit of sense because mukuro is ridiculously sharp, and also it’s,, it’s just sad idk poor rantaro. getting dumped because he’s like the emotional equivalent of a doorknob when it comes to his own feelings.

i do think rantaro is a bit cowardly. not in the sense that he’d shy away from danger-- i think he’d RUSH INTO IT HEAD FIRST because he’s a man or whatever, i know he respects women but he does seem to hold some of those very stereotypically masculine ideals of constantly protecting those around him, which is like.... ok toxic masculinity mcgee can u and kaito stop throwing hands every time u see each other ty-- but more in the sense that he avoids,,, confrontation. emotional confrontation just ain’t his thing. and i think he’d rather run away from it or otherwise find some way of ignoring it than try to address his problems.

he would, with that in mind, probably try to associate with people who don’t push the matter. kiyo and mukuro, for example. they both have a fair amount of baggage themselves so they’d probably be respectful. ryoma is lowkey enough that he just, he wouldn’t bring that shit up, that’s uncool. i also think rantaro would get along REALLY WELL with kaito, and i actually don’t think kaito would pull his sidekick stuff with him? just because in a way they’re kind of kindred spirits, and i think kaito would see an ally in rantaro before seeing someone to try to nurture, so they’d probably have some kind of a truce like, if you don’t force me to be vulnerable, i won’t force you. one of the reasons why i love amamota so much is because it involves the two of them growing to care about each other beyond that sort of unhealthy camaraderie and breaking down each other’s barriers and i just..... hhnnfhhdkfj they could be so good for each other but nobody wants to talk about thatjslfkj

you weren’t asking for my amamota mess lmao sorry anon i get sidetracked SO easily. but yeah, amami gravitates towards people who wouldn’t try to get him to be more honest with himself. and i honestly think the v3 cast would be pretty good about that overall, except for shuichi who is a detective and has a habit of sticking his nose in places it shouldn’t be, but i see no reason to write that out because amami’s ftes already display that beautifully. (well, that’s a lie, i’m absolutely plotting out a slowburn in my head already that involves shuichi stripping down his walls one by one, but forget about all of that rn we don’t need to talk about why amasaimota is my ot3.) also he is softer on childish people like ouma and himiko. ain’t nobody wants to TALK TO ME about how brilliant it would be if rantaro and hiyoko were friends because hiyoko has such problems in that department and he would take one look at her and go hm. i’m adopting her. and he’s so fucking patient and nice and she’d lose the will to make fun of him and i have to do ALL THE GODDAMN WORK AROUND HERE but it’s fine. at least i get to write it.

i’ve described the fundamentals of his characterisation pretty well by now i think. i have some throwaway headcanons, like uhh,,

he’s claustrophobic

plays the guitar and the ukulele

he prefers warm weather and perishes in the cold

high pain tolerance

he’s a Good Cook

doesn’t like sex jokes (they make him uncomfortable)

asexual (i do like a good demisexual hc at all times of day tho)

master of piggyback rides

does his own piercings

impulsive as hell

gets lost easily but can always find his way back

has a lot of scars from travels

hands are rough and calloused (again from travels)

morning person

smells like evergreen (you know i had to, you know i did)

Radiates Heat Like A Fucking Toaster Oven

good hugs

hates tying his shoelaces

likes being the big spoon :)

has a tongue piercing

i said “some throwaway headcanons” but i ended up listing way more than i mean to. i’ll make a separate list of my rantaro headcanons someday and talk about them all in detail but for now, uh, there’s that.

SO AS FOR THE RANTARO CHARACTERISATIONS I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE:

god where to fucking begin. actually i know exactly where to begin. it’s my least favourite one just because, like i said at the very beginning, rantaro is a subversive character. i mean i think he’s kind of a low hanging fruit when it comes to that. there are plenty of other subversive characters in the dr series but rantaro is like that. you expect a flirt and u get,,, a sweetheart. but then some people (usually the ones who ship him with female characters exclusively though i will see it on occasion in an amasai or oumami fic) decide to throw that out the window and make him a total playboy!! and listen, i have no problem with people who are a little flirty. we’re kids!! flirt ur heart out!!! and hey, that’s not what this is about but y’know what? so long as everything is safe, sane, and consensual, then yeah!! exercise your sexual freedom and sleep with whoever you want to!!! i don’t think there’s anything wrong with messing around a little, dating who u wanna and experimenting with ur tastes and preferences. if rantaro WAS a playboy, then there would be nothing wrong with that. i would love him just the same because he’s such a fundamentally GOOD character.

except that.... he’s.......... NOT. you slaughter one of the biggest aspects of his character by throwing away what matters to him and making him some hunky-deep-voice-dreamboat dude meant to sweep kaede/tsumugi/whomsteverthefuck off her feet. rantaro is one of those characters where he’s so blatantly not that kind of person, and it’s like. it’s an affront, almost, to portray him that way? and i do believe you should have the freedom to write what you want, since we’re in that age (aside from romanticised pedophilia and incest; that shit ain’t cute, i say this often but pro-ship DNI) where u should be able to take some liberties, but it’s just. hnnn. it’s so frustrating. rantaro does not know how to smolder! if he DID smolder, he wouldn’t even realise he was doing it. he doesn’t have people lying at his feet, okay? he’s too flaky for that. i wouldn’t say he’s unreliable but he definitely ain’t at school as much as he should be.

another one that i hate: st-stalker? what the fuck? that is not sexy that is creepy and weird?

another another one that i hate: yandere? what the FUCK??? that is not sexy that is glorified ABUSE???? the yandere trope is AWFUL bc you’re taking a controlling relationship and turning it into a fetish. NO. if he limits ur contact with other people, if he follows u everywhere, if he threatens ur loved ones, if he tries to control you, ladies and gents and nonbinaries, he’s not a yandere, he’s an abuser and you need a fucking restraining order. actually, people of ANY gender or sex can perpetuate this behaviour and IT IS NOT CUTE. I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK WHAT BOUNDARIES U SET IN PLACE, IF YOUR FREEDOM IS BEING RESTRICTED THAT IS ABUSE.

hate it when people make rantaro violent. hate it when people make rantaro a murderer. hate it when people make rantaro controlling. hate it when people make rantaro overtly sexual. some kind of sultry deep voice dominant kind of figure. dude, what the fuck? i don’t,, want to make any public comments about sex positions because i think that’s kind of Strange to just talk about on a post, but i do think that the way people portray him for their smuts is,,, idk it’s weird. i’m not gonna kinkshame u but like. :eyes:

i will however accept rantaro as a thrillseeker, or a highstrung rich boy, or a total space cadet, or a himbo, or a cryptid. these are all very good interpretations of the Mans. just, like. be wary of making him two dimensional. a good character is multifaceted. if you can take a trait that clashes with all of these and SELL ME ON IT, i will buy it. if u give me good justifications, or even just good writing?? then i will accept it.

the long and the short of it is, anon, he’s my favourite so i think about him a lot. i love writing rantaro. he’s just, he’s a Guy. y’know? He’s A Good Dude, If You’ll Give Him A Shot. :) we don’t get to see very much of him but i think that there’s plenty of material if you overanalyse everything, which, as you probably all know by now,,,, i absolutely do.

thank you for the ask, this was a delight to spend an hour talking about.

[sasukebarmitzvah]

Do u think naruto was ever able to rebel against the village? Like if he truly understood what the state did, if sasuke made him see that things must CHANGE not just get burried. The idea of civil war in naruto and the justice for neji and sasuke...i love it but naruto doesnt know how to deal with things unless he blames himself for them... anyway, thots?

i do think naruto reached a place where he would have defied konoha but the problem is that kishi took the narrative in a more jingoistic direction after that which kinda blew any chances of that arc actually being resolved in any other way.

imo the key moment is during kage summit when obito confronts naruto and kakashi and tells them everything he told sasuke, about the truth of the uchiha massacre and itachi’s role as the scapegoat. naruto hears this and he gets mad about it like he’s ready to go tell everyone what happened, his blind faith in konoha is really shaken. 

i mean before that i think naruto already had a subconscious predisposition to wariness re: konoha because of how he grew up abused and alienated, but he never really wanted to address it before—instead of being outright in his anger towards the village, he turned to attention-seeking and gunning for the hokage seat. then eventually he was accepted, with the village hero role foisted upon him after the pain attack, and despite it bringing him some discomfort he still powers through it because it’s easier for him to chase that praise than stir up more conflict.

but when obito tells naruto about the uchihas it clearly makes something click in his mind, like, ok it’s not just me something’s wrong here. when he and the rest of team 7 meet with sasuke a few chapters later, naruto tells sasuke that he understands why he’s doing what he’s doing and doesn’t even blame him for it. 

then when sasuke says he’s gonna kill everyone in the village including naruto, naruto is like, well, no, that’s just putting the onus on a lot of otherwise clueless people. naruto says that sasuke would have to kill him first, that when their battle inevitably happens they'll both kill each other in the intensity—but naruto doesn’t even mind, because he and sasuke will be free of the burdens thrust upon them both by konoha. to me this attitude makes it seem like naruto is still struggling between his upbringing as a konoha loyalist and his anger towards the village that he tried for so long to repress that’s finally surfacing because of what obito told him. he’s really struggling because he Can’t reconcile these two lines of thinking and so he opts for the easier choice as he always has in the past (dying a martyr, because at least he’ll be dead and won’t have to make a hard choice).

kage summit sets that internal conflict up for naruto’s character and it’s SO interesting and i would’ve loved for that to actually have been explored properly, to have had that arc carried through the climax of the story and more explicitly play a part in vote2. but i think around this time kishi’s editors told him to “make naruto the main character again” aka Stop it with the sasuke sympathizing aka no more questioning the authority of konoha is to be done by the protagonist. which is so disappointing! 

so that brings us to waterfall of truth where naruto directly confronts his inner self, the one who is angry, who is empowered by his rage, who wants to run away from konoha and owe them nothing more. this is a really interesting scene to me because it had the potential to be that pivotal moment where naruto finally decides to stand up for himself and start acting completely of his own will (or at Least openly condemn the corruption in konoha). but then what actually happens is Happy Konoha Naruto shuts down Angry Naruto. 

his reasoning is what's really striking: naruto literally says to his “bad” inner self that he can’t harbor that negativity anymore, that he has to suck it up so he can be the person that the people of konoha believe him to be. again, he’s deferring to the easier path of conformity to acceptance because from childhood, he was a pariah, he was hated by everyone and didn’t even know why—this conditioned him to seek approval and praise wherever he can get it. even after having his hurt dredged up by obito’s words, sasuke’s actions, and his confrontation with his inner self, the effects on his psyche that his childhood created are a more powerful influence on his decision making. he represses his anger because rebellion isn’t what’s going to get people to care about him, and what he wants the most is to feel loved.

like bro thats so fucking upsetting..... naruto just spends his life being manipulated by the entity that caused all his problems, and every time he comes close to breaking out of that cycle, he chickens out at the last minute because he thinks he’s already getting what he needs on a psychologically fundamental level from the village. but he’s not. 

so with that having been said i intellectually understand why he acts the way he does from waterfall of truth on, but i don’t agree with it lol. like this poor child deserves better but with the direction kishi was forced to take with the series at that point in it, it’s no surprise that the jingoism won over. i wonder how naruto’s internal struggle would have played out if that hadn’t been the case? i certainly think he could have completely rebelled against konoha. the anger was there, and he was completely justified in it, but the problem is that he keeps repressing it and doesn’t let himself truly feel it.

i wasn’t planning on writing this much in response to this ask sdhfjfjsdg i just have a Lot Of Thoughts on this tl;dr i love naruto he deserved better and we need someone to rewrite the series and do it PROPERLY and also read all the bits above that i bolded

[comicteaparty]

October 12th, 2017 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on October 12th, 2017, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on Voidchild by David Lindholm.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning. Today we are discussing Voidchild by David Lindholm~! (https://tapas.io/series/voidchild/) For those new to CTP, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer so pay them no mind if you wish~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! Each chat a top comment will be picked and featured on an ad for this chat, so let’s have a great discussion~!

With that said, let us begin with this first question~!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

for me im going to say chapter 2. the entirety of chapter 2. which isnt one scene but many of course. but all my fave scenes are in there.

Superjustin of Time and Space

HELLO

*waves

RebelVampire

hello~!

Superjustin of Time and Space

I made sure I made it~

snuffysam

Hmm... for me, it would be the chapter 1 finale. The scene where Mary talks down a goddess is legendary, particularly on re-readings once you know her backstory.

MathTans the Pun Prince

I have split feelings about favourite scene. My comedy enjoyment is going with the "crossbows?" element early on, when it was like, exploding crossbow bolts and ohhh. In terms of anticipation, is was when Imad was going off on Mary to shake her out of her despair and I was worried what would happen. But for overall pathos, killing one's parent accidentally, kinda can't beat that.

Hiyo SJB!

Superjustin of Time and Space

Hey Math~

MathTans the Pun Prince

SnuffyS - That's a real good point, the backstory puts that conversation into a new light. Nice.

RebelVampire

@snuffysam yeah I really enjoy that scene. i like that the solution is non-conventional in comparison to earlier stuff. in the sense that its not a dramatic fight that solves the problem. its words. i think my fave line in the entire scene is really when mary starts by acknowledging she doesnt get how spirits think. i think that really sets the tone for who has the upper hand here. @math those are def all good scenes. i did like the exection of the crossbows line.

snuffysam

Yeah, in terms of the heaviest scene in the comic, Mary killing her dad is definitely up there. I agree with what @RebelVampire said- the entirety of chapter 2 is filled with scenes like that.

MathTans the Pun Prince

I admit I'm waffling a little on the way it was presented, effectively as nightmares/memories and the like. I feel like maybe it would have had more impact on the present day events if she'd told someone specifically, or had been writing it down for someone to find later.

Like, not bad by any means, and it was impactful going through it, but now that we're back in the present... I kind of want it to go for more than characterization. Granted, the EvilGuy (name escapes me) does seem to know things too.

Superjustin of Time and Space

Lol

RebelVampire

i can kind of see that perspective. for me if i had to be critical the issue is less its a flashback, more that its a long flashback. so now that were in the present im like "oh yeah this is a time and place were in"

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe that's part of it. I wanted more of a connection to the characters we're seeing in the present. I do think the callback to the present at the start of Chap 2, Part 4 was a good move.

It's tricky when Mary's whole thing is she wants to move on.

snuffysam

Yeah, I really liked the bit that came back to the present in chapter 2- again especially in retrospect. Like, this random alley man keeps following her around, but then he turns out to be a villain in chapter 3.

RebelVampire

im glad he came back cause the minute i saw the random alley man i was like "this dude is suspicious af hes gonna have a role right O_O"

snuffysam

I figured at the very least he'd be a recurring gag character- but the fact that he (seemingly) has such a major role in the story is even better.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah... actually, seems like many others who are more shady know more than Mary and ... I am SO bad with names. Detective guy.

RebelVampire

lol

snuffysam

Bekker.

RebelVampire

detective guy is abraham bekker

alley guy is amir

MathTans the Pun Prince

Thanks. -.-

Anyway, we're mostly coming at it from their perspective.

Meaning we needed the backstory to be able to do that appropriately.

snuffysam

Here's a question- do you think we'll get Bekker's backstory in the future? Do you want to?

RebelVampire

i think we'll get it cause i don't think hes going anywhere. like i feel its inevitable mary will become his partner. not discounting a wrench in that plan. i just feel its the most likely scenario considering abraham is still a relevant character in chapter 3. but yes i do want his backstory

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hah. I don't think we'll get it to the same extent. But at the same time, there's parts of it I don't really want to know... when he started in with the whole "ex-gf" (or was it wife?) thing near the introduction, I kind of winced. Felt like hardly the time or the place. I don't know that I really need to know that stuff either. But how the guy can function when he's perpetually late and where he got his attitude from, that I'd wonder about.

RebelVampire

yeah i concur i dont care about his dating history. i just wanna know how he started working for the PIU

TheVoidchildProject

Hi all, I'm really tired and should only stay here for a min or so since I have work in the morning. So excited to see this discussion though!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hi creator! Kudos to you for appearing in the middle of your night.

While I have the chance, I want to say, awesome on you for keeping the early art. Speaking as someone else who's mostly a writer and is somehow attempting a comic, that was great.

RebelVampire

Hey David~! Don't stay up too long for sure.

TheVoidchildProject

I can say, I think without spoiling much, that Mary's backstory is the only one that will be presented as it was. Other characters if/when their past is presented I'd like to do in different ways.

snuffysam

Yup, that makes sense.

TheVoidchildProject

And thank you so much @MathTans the Pun Prince ! It was a difficult decision but I'm also glad I did it that way!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Time travel through dimensional portals?

TheVoidchildProject

Lol, I hadn't thought of that... UNTIL NOW!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Those portals do seem dangerous. Maybe that train station employee is fighting dinosaurs even now.

TheVoidchildProject

I was actually a bit worried when I approached chapter 2, knowing that Mary's backstory was coming and that it was going to (by the end of it) equal all of ch 1 in length. In its first draft it was only three parts. But I opted to make it four since it was so condensed!

Hah, I will also say that I'm not trying to be clever with the portal thing at the beginning of ch 3. I wanted to imply that it relates to Amir somehow. Hence why the next scene jumped to him and Mary with the "...than what came out." Comment. ^_^

snuffysam

And hence the similar windy effects when the train station was attacked...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, was pretty sure Amir used it for transport.

(Amir got tired of fighting dinosaurs.)

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. There is no question that the biggest mystery in Voidchild is Mary, the so-called Voidchild herself. The comic also hints at how potentially destructive her powers are. What do you think the Voidchild is? Why are people so readily willing to kill Mary because of it? What is Mary’s purpose for existing, and who exactly are Mary’s biological parents? Lastly, do you think being the Voidchild will eventually make Mary and Abraham enemies?

TheVoidchildProject

Also very pleased that ppl appreciated how Mary talked down Maman Ama in ch 1. Always wanted there to be more to her than powerful magics. ^_^

@snuffysam yes, that too! ^_^

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, that was well done. Nice not to play to expectations too much.

TheVoidchildProject

That's a very interesting question @RebelVampire

MathTans the Pun Prince

Well, here's an off the wall theory. Void is sometimes seen as the "missing" element, as in Fire, Earth, Air, Water and Void. If she's the void child, maybe Amir is Fire, and there's more of them out there. (And if they come together, everything explodes.)

TheVoidchildProject

"Questions (gah)

snuffysam

@MathTans the Pun Prince If so, then Amir's not exactly helping.

MathTans the Pun Prince

No, Amir isn't. But he's gotta build up an army to take on the... weird fire being things. Possibly they're his uncles. Okay, now I've moved into crack theories.

TheVoidchildProject

Lol, I will avoid saying too much on this subject. But, the fundamentals of it will be explained within chapter 3.

snuffysam

My theory is that the Voidchild is called that because she has no real biological parents. She existed in some void dimension, and was summoned into this world by the people in the photo.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Oooh, a summoning, I like it. I thought it was clever that the shadows made sure we couldn't see the faces of her 'parents' clearly.

It makes the new question, why did they dispose of the baby that they summoned.

RebelVampire

that is my running theory as well. that she doesnt really have bio parents. the picture is a red herring. or it could be they are her bio parents but the summoning happened anyway. like they used their own child as a vessel

MathTans the Pun Prince

Nu-cle-ar wessel. (Sorry)

TheVoidchildProject

High, must avoid... saying too much... might accidentally... confirm or deny...

snuffysam

Well, if the people who summoned her did so in part of some kind of world-domination scheme... perhaps they abandoned her that far away to have some sort of "testing ground".

MathTans the Pun Prince

I'm not sure if I buy the red herring thing. Seems like a lot of trouble to put a baby out in the middle of nowhere. (Unless they were spying and knew a possible father was coming, but then why be so hands-off after that.)

snuffysam

But then, of course, why leave her with a photo...?

RebelVampire

@TheVoidchildProject just reply with and no one will know XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

So that when she got sucked back into the hell dimension, she'd have a keepsake?

RebelVampire

that is a good point. they went to a lot of trouble to leave the picture. assuming they were the ones who left her in the middle of nowhere

TheVoidchildProject

Lol, I'm not falling for that again!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Here's something tangentially related. Mary was unable to access her powers when she went kind of emotionally dead. It was only when she felt again that she regained them. So it seems to be tied to emotions. Maybe Mary was abandoned in the hope she'd gain emotions, in order to access the powers, which the original parents didn't feel capable of doing.

TheVoidchildProject

@RebelVampire (trying to take advantage of my lack of cognitive ability eh ?

snuffysam

@MathTans the Pun Prince That could be it, yeah!

Here's another related theory- one of the two people in that picture is a younger Movian.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hmmm. I feel like he'd have kept better tabs. But maybe you're right.

RebelVampire

mostly i just wish i had right now to eat

thatd be trippy if it was younger movian

does movian just go around having rando cults

seeing what works

MathTans the Pun Prince

Mary would prefer vegetable soup to the pizza.

snuffysam

It would make sense for him not to know where she was if he was either trying to get rid of Mary, or if someone else took her from him.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hmm! I like that, the abduction angle seems big.

Nice backstory on Diary-Guy, incidentally.

TheVoidchildProject

I can confirm that it's not a young Movian though. His first encounter with Mary was in chapter 1. He has his own motivation, which I've only hinted to in the reader questions actually.

MathTans the Pun Prince

He's doing his own version of Braveheart.

TheVoidchildProject

And thanks @MathTans the Pun Prince ! I assume you mean Roy maybe?

Lol, like a brace heart sitting in the dark with weird glory owl-like spectacle glasses?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yes, Roy. (Don't feel slighted, I get everyone's names wrong in all the comics. It's a wonder that I teach for a living.)

TheVoidchildProject

(His design was actually based a little around an owl)

MathTans the Pun Prince

He does have the knack for making glasses look malicious.

snuffysam

Hey, David, here's a suggestion, if you have the time- Cast Page. The amount of characters is getting kind of big, and it's difficult to remember all their names.

RebelVampire

@snuffysam there is a cast page

TheVoidchildProject

Lol, don't worry about it. I can't expect people to remember every details of a long form comic that updates twice a week. ^_^

snuffysam

There is? Which mirror?

RebelVampire

http://www.TheVoidchildProject.com/about/cast/

snuffysam

Huh, how 'bout that.

RebelVampire

granted amir isnt on it

nor other side

characters

i can english

TheVoidchildProject

Yes, there is a cast page but it's not been updated yet. I think @snuffysam suggestion is good and there will be other characters appearing later as well.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Pity about Catherine. Saved only to die again. Gotta admit, I wonder if the Mother Goddess was in on it. (Oh, you want to return the kid to it's mother? Fine. Oh look, no mother no more, I get the kid back.)

RebelVampire

i kind of liked that catherine got murdered. looked like a happy ending, all pieces in place. but whoops no, no happy ending for anyone

TheVoidchildProject

I gotta sleep now, but I wanted to drop a lady tidbit. A major theme, alongside the mystery and magic and all that, that is core to Voidchild and relevant to everything you're talking about is interdependency. It's something that relates to a lot of things you've been discussing so far. I've mentioned here and there that it might probably be what I describe as THE central theme of the comic. Whether that helps or makes speculation harder...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Everything is connected. Abe is Dirk Gently.

TheVoidchildProject

The question of Catherine's killing will also be revealed in good time.

Hah! He for sure isnt! But he has a very important role to play. Albeit one that's difficult to summarze in just a sentence.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Glad the reference was caught at least. Do enjoy sleep, hope work tomorrow goes well.

TheVoidchildProject

Anyways, beddy bye time for me. Im so thrilled about this discussion! Thanks so much for taking the time!

MathTans the Pun Prince

Abe is actually Fox Mulder then.

RebelVampire

thanks for coming david~!

snuffysam

Goodnight, David!

TheVoidchildProject

Night!

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. In recent chapters the comic has introduced Amir, a strange person who possesses the same powers as Mary. Is Amir another Voidchild of some sort or is something else going on? Why is Amir interested in Mary? Is it just because of their similarities or does he have a specific purpose? Additionally, what other purpose could Amir have for being in Victoria?

snuffysam

Well, he did say Mary was the one who was going to end everything. So that would imply she's something he isn't?

MathTans the Pun Prince

I still kind of cling to my Other-Kind-Of-Child theory. But maybe there is a whole society through the portal of people like him, who only gain fantastical powers when on the other (this) side. Since Mary's been here for soooo long, she also has the power to... um, void. Not sure where I'm going with this now.

Superjustin of Time and Space

Sorry I'm kinda stuck in this video chat in another server

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe Amir came for the pizza.

RebelVampire

thats a good reason to come

it could be that amir and mary and others are needed together to end the world. like even if mary lets go and starts world ending, the planet is pretty big. it might take multiple ppl to release the true power of the void

MathTans the Pun Prince

There's also the matter of Jack. I feel like the scary pet thing figures into the mythology somehow.

RebelVampire

i could go super into crack territory and suggest maybe there are other dimensions and amir is the voidchild of his dimension and he rolled in to help mary end her dimension

MathTans the Pun Prince

Aw yeah, that's a cool theory.

snuffysam

That isn't a crack theory, ha ha. It makes sense given the circumstances.

Do we know for sure Amir doesn't live in Victoria? Maybe he lived in a cave under the train station the entire time, and just tunneled up.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Meanwhile the FireMask nation want to prevent Mary from doing it, because they've bought interdimensional shares in Earth Stock. And Amir is all, no, I bet against you guys, gotta destroy the place.

RebelVampire

the FireMask Nation XD excuse me while i laugh and think of all the jokes

MathTans the Pun Prince

Amir must have some knowledge of Victoria, it's true. He didn't look befuddled by things around him.

My inability to deal with names strikes again.

RebelVampire

i dont think the ppl even had a name tbh

so firemask nation works for me

MathTans the Pun Prince

I wonder if there's a prophecy. Isn't there usually a prophecy?

RebelVampire

is it possible amir is the spirit of the void? cause i remember the book movian was reading was titled "the spirit of the void and the child of the void"

so it suggests theyre seperate entities

snuffysam

Everyone who knows anything seems to be sure Mary will destroy the world. I guess that's a prophecy?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Good eye. Maybe it's a yin and yang thing.

snuffysam

I wonder if there

's anything to the fact that Mary and Amir are similar names as well

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hmmmm.

snuffysam

Same four sounds in a different order. Will we see Rima and Imar next?

MathTans the Pun Prince

We also had "snowflake" against the "firemask nation". Symbolism?

RebelVampire

wait wasnt her uncle's name Imad?

secret void uncle

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, Imad.

snuffysam

Well, he was always interested in Mary's powers.

Maybe Amir got the powers later in life, while Mary had them from birth?

MathTans the Pun Prince

He didn't seem keen on her using them though.

Amir just seems to have embraced the darkness. Mary has lighter eyes.

Could be they fear that Mary will destroy the DARKNESS. To save the humans. Or something.

Gotta get humanity prejudiced against their saviour.

snuffysam

Mary's eyes go black when she goes all-out though. I think there's a lower level of magic that Amir just skips over.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe. Or maybe she has some inherent "valve" that she can use to tap into the evil without letting it consume her.

snuffysam

Though it's interesting that Amir can go to normal eyes, while Mary is stuck with glowing blue...

MathTans the Pun Prince

That is interesting, yes.

Training?

(Mary just needs some good contact lenses. Maybe the cat-eye ones.)

snuffysam

Or perhaps a difference between them- Mary was created from the void, Amir just uses it or something.

RebelVampire

yeah the eye thing really interests me. cause it makes me wonder how different amir's powers are. like maybe they arent exactly the same. maybe other ppl can tap into the power of the void and mary is just the chosen one. what if amir is from the secret voidchild cult that is like "yaay world ending"

and amir is the proxy sent to greet her

snuffysam

Exactly, something like that

Though in a world with real mystical creatures, it seems odd a cult would be formed around one they aren't sure exists.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Ooooh, these are nice theories.

Yeah, the general reaction to Jack wasn't mine (namely, OMG, WTF) and more, okay, guy has a skull pet, sure.

So, duelling cultists.

(biab)

RebelVampire

oh thats a good point. that book did mention even other legendary creatures think mary is a legend.

i never questioned jack that much cause victoria was described as a supernatural hotbed

snuffysam

It's the tagline of the entire comic, even.

RebelVampire

was just like "yup mythical creature, supernatural hotbed, makes sense"

snuffysam

"voidchild a creature of myth and legend, even to other creatures of myth and legend."

RebelVampire

so if mary destroys the world, what does that mean for spirits like maman ama

like are they destroyed too

do they exist somewhere else so theyre just gonna shrug and say "welp i never liked humans anyway"

snuffysam

Maman Ama specifically? Yeah, probably. Can't speak for any other spirits though.

RebelVampire

i picked maman ama just cause thats the only identified spirit that for sure basically lives in another dimension/world/plane of some sort

snuffysam

No yeah, I'm saying the other spirits might like humans more.

RebelVampire

oh yeah im sure theres tons of spirits with varying opinions. theres at least gotta be one not indifferent to humans.

i wonder if theres a significance to the fact mary's eyes glow blue as opposed to a different color

snuffysam

I think it's mainly a design choice. Blue stands out against the black & white that the comic sports- and for a character we're supposed to sympathize with, red would be a bad call.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Back. Yeah, might be nice to see more cases that the PIU get involved with. The other "spirit" style thing we've seen was the mystical healing.

And plaid is right out.

RebelVampire

for a black & white comic most colors stand out tho. i mean it could be a design choice cause that shade of blue in particular generally gets associated with the supernatural.

i just wonder if theres a deeper meaning. that the blue is signifying life or something and the black is signifying not life

snuffysam

Also true. In general, sky-blue is seen as a friendly color.

Maybe.

RebelVampire

but yeah i do hope we get to see more of the PIU

and their fun cases

MathTans the Pun Prince

bites tongue to keep from making an "air"head comment

RebelVampire

you can do it math O_O just dont bite the tongue off

MathTans the Pun Prince

Tree bark is worse than my bite.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. With the end of the first chapter, the comic leaves a lot of unanswered questions regarding Catherine’s murder and Movian. Why do you think Catherine was murdered and who did it? Additionally, do you think Movian is being truthful when he implies he had nothing to do with it? On a different note, what is Movian’s end goal with his cult? Is he serving some higher purpose, trying to destroy the world, or something else?

snuffysam

I'm thinking Movian definitely didn't do it just based off his reaction- if he's responsible, it's unintentional.

RebelVampire

yeah thats what i think too. i feel it was pretty clear but theres always room for doubt of course

ive been wondering, what if amir killed catherine

MathTans the Pun Prince

Movian's very much in your face or mysteriously absent. Really not his style. I still feel like his cult's involved though, what with the kid now being an orphan.

snuffysam

We haven't seen anything that can work at a distance/unseen out of Amir's abilities (or Mary's for that matter), but maybe?

MathTans the Pun Prince

What's Amir's motive though? I also feel like he only arrived the previous day through that portal (though it's possible he could have been around and made it back to communicate or something).

snuffysam

It really seems like "Movian's cult is doing some bad stuff" and "Mary is the Voidchild" are two different storylines at the moment. Catherine's death has SOMETHING to do with the overarching plot, I imagine, but I'm not sure it connects that closely yet...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Be funny if it was a case of mistaken identity. "I am going to kill the Supernatural Mother! ... Crud, that is not who I expected to be with the baby."

RebelVampire

lol that would be a very drastic mistake XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

The whole "helping people" thing has not gone well for Mary, traditionally.

RebelVampire

well i think we can at least safely conclude something supernatural killed catherine. cause if you look at the death scene it almost seems like theres a hint of a portal appearing in one panel

snuffysam

Maybe there's someone who's trying to make Mary feel as bad as possible? Either to make her stronger, or to weaken her?

MathTans the Pun Prince

The power is tied to emotions, it would seem.

snuffysam

Yeah, so the person responsible (if they're targeting Mary) is either trying to make her frustrated or depressed.

RebelVampire

idk if the power is tied to emotions so much as its tied to willpower. it seems the more mary wills herself to live, the stronger her powers are

which may be the ironic bane of her existence

MathTans the Pun Prince

Hmmmm.

It makes for a nice callback to the words of her father.

RebelVampire

an ironic callback cause you could argue the ultimate solution to prevent her from ending the world is for her to let herself die

but this is obviously speculation

MathTans the Pun Prince

Amir is a male version of her from another dimension. She only has to kill Amir.

RebelVampire

it could be someone is just going around and murdering anybody who mary interacts with. because theyve been touched by the void or something like that

snuffysam

What if Mary dying IS how the world ends? Like, the void isn't meant to be bound to a human form, because they're too fragile?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Inappropriate touching.

RebelVampire

that would be an ironic twist as well. if her dying is how the world ends. cause it means the people trying to kill her arent saving the world, just hastening its destruction

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe they're saving their world.

We don't really know the supernatural rules. Maybe there's a conflict.

snuffysam

For the people who have tried to kill her- have they ever said the world ending is a bad thing?

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's a tax dodge.

Valid theory though, really. (Sorry, I get silly late in the evening and can't always filter.)

snuffysam

Like, if you told me Amir wanted to end existence... I wouldn't be too surprised. He kind of gives off that vibe.

RebelVampire

i feel like the firemask nation ppl implied it tho

snuffysam

Hmm I think you're right there...

MathTans the Pun Prince

I wonder. Maybe OwlMan wants freedom from his mortal body. And maybe VoidChild is the embodiment of the void, spirtuality given form. OwlMan wants to study that, to learn how he can transcend his body.... and he's creating cults for that purpose. The rest of them don't want him to be able to do that, hence are trying to take Mary out.

RebelVampire

https://tapas.io/episode/616941

that page specifically

snuffysam

Ah yes, there you go.

RebelVampire

amir id definitely think would all be for world destruction tho XD

snuffysam

It's certainly possible Movian is doing the stuff he does for personal gain. Immortality, power, etc.

MathTans the Pun Prince

If Mary's the means to an end, she must go.

RebelVampire

yeah i think movian is doing some sort of power grab thing here

hes looking for something at least

that i feel confident in saying

considering his business is acquiring "rare exotic goods"

that sounds like code for "evidence against me and supernatural artifacts"

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's probably not tropical fruit.

snuffysam

I also feel like if he was serving some higher entity, he wouldn't be so confident all the time. Being under someone else's heel doesn't seem his style...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Maybe he's pulling the strings of some higher entity. (Or they think they're pull each others' strings.)

RebelVampire

movian is the higher entity. thats the twist he doesnt tell the cults

MathTans the Pun Prince

Exactly. He can maybe make his eyes go void too.

snuffysam

I feel like it would be cool if Movian is just a regular human who tells the cult that he serves a higher power. Maybe he's trying to gain supernatural abilities for himself?

So, like, he's lying to all his followers

RebelVampire

yeah like i said, i feel like movian is just a greedy human who wants more power. and that there is no higher power. hes just using who and what he can

MathTans the Pun Prince

He's gotta have something to him though. He tamed Jack somehow.

Or is he just that personable?

snuffysam

Found a magic whip that tames demon creatures?

RebelVampire

yeah i mean maybe he found some monster taming artifact

during his acquisitions

MathTans the Pun Prince

I suppose artifacts could be a thing, good point.

Maybe it used to be his son or something.

RebelVampire

maybe movian doesnt want to end the world but take it over. be like "look i have the voidchild that can end all existence now make me king of england"

snuffysam

That could absolutely be it.

MathTans the Pun Prince

He doesn't seem like he wants that much responsibility though.

Like, his end game is more, now I don't have to worry about anything versus actually running england.

RebelVampire

that is true. its really hard to guess his motives tbh

i wonder if movian would be interested in amir

snuffysam

Nelson Movian Just Wants A Quiet Life...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Much like Abe?

(It's all gotta cycle around, y'see.)

snuffysam

Yup exactly

MathTans the Pun Prince

Final thought, neat transition manner of having panels get thinner and thinner.

Just something random that I noticed that stuck.

RebelVampire

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party is now complete~! Thank you everyone so much for joining this week’s chat~! That being said, if you would like to continue discussing the comic, we encourage you to do so~! We want to give a big thank you to David Lindholm, as well, for volunteering Voidchild for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support David Lindholm’s efforts. If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions about CTP, please feel free to PM me, or e-mail me at RebelVampire@startfaire.com.

With that said, next week’s Comic Tea Party will focus on Alethia by Kristina Stipetic. Please use this week to read as much of the comic as you would like. Hope to see you next Thursday (October 19th) from 5PM to 7PM PDT~! Until then~! Comic: http://alethia.kstipetic.com/index.html