#the deeper in s02 the worse it gets

[quietparanoiac]

Snowpiercer, 1x06 | 2x03

[alrightsnaps]

I think I have used the term girlboss before to describe Kates characterisation but now I really regret it. The word which once had an actual meaning to it has been twisted throughout the internet and is now just used to describe any woman who doesn’t want to be treated like a doormat. While the writing in the Tudum clip is anachronistic… this is Bridgerton so no one is watching for historical accuracy.

The show clearly implies anthony just said some pretty sexist things, has shown him treat woman like commodities (Siena + books) and behave in a sexist manner (but let’s make sure Kate doesn’t come off as a man hater for pointing that out). For some reason having Kate call him out in a fairly tame manner ruins her character 😐. While their is genuine critique to be made that writers often write female characters to fit a certain box, I am tired of any female character who speaks up for herself being a girlboss or *gasps* unfeminine.

Riiiight, I remember reading some criticism about Kate's lines in the tudum clip.

I'm gonna be honest: I'm 100% for anachronisms and historical inaccuracies in romance. One of my favourite regency romance writers is Tessa Dare because of how absurdist her stories can be given their historical context lol. There are projects you watch for their historical accuracy and attention to detail but as you said, Bridgerton is not one of those shows and that's what made it so popular. I loved the Billie Eilish string quartets, I loved the historically inaccurate hairstyles (#LetWomenHaveTheirHairDown 😛) and I loved Daphne confronting her mother about not giving her a proper sex talk (when in real life it was very much the norm for mothers to give even worse sex talks not just in the 19th century but well into the 20th– precisely because women were treated as commodities and kept in the dark about their own reproductive health). So, predictably, I loved Kate's reaction to Anthony, anachronistic as it is, and I hope they keep it up.

I agree that writers can write characters to fit a certain box which can be very frustrating if they're not careful because they make them seem a bit one dimensional (I feel they kinda did that with Eloise as the Token Feminist Character? I don't know if it's because I know her ending but it could get kinda cringe at times. Which is a pity because there were other scenes–her talks with Benedict or her deeper moments with Daphne off the top of my head–that felt completely natural and heartfelt. I hope they lean more into the latter in s02) but that's not the impression I was given with Kate in the sneak peek. It felt very much in character for her to call Anthony out for being a misogynistic ass and I hope they keep it going throughout the season. This is the same woman who rightfully told him that he'd never marry Edwina after he got a first-hand account of the kind of marriage he intended to have (one where he would keep a mistress and do whatever he wanted while his wife gave birth to his heirs) and wouldn't give her approval until Anthony actually showed her a different (and decent) side of himself. Are we really supposed to believe this Kate would listen to Anthony exhibit the same behaviour we saw from him in season 1 and demurely keep sipping her lemonade?!

Female characters will get criticised whatever they do, especially for speaking up, because women are criticised no matter what they do and called man-haters for so much as daring to contradict men. So who gives a fuck? (Don't get me started on female characters being deemed ~unfeminine~. Every behaviour under the sun besides docile submissiveness is unfeminine lmao Maybe if people realised femininity has always been meant to restrict women's lives and options it wouldn't be such a dreadful concept for women to be unfeminine but hey. That wouldn't be convenient for men or capitalism)

If someone sees a character as complex and beautiful as Kate and view her as a girlboss or a man-hater for being a normal human being with opinions and no patience for men's bullshit it just goes to show how sexist they are. I'll definitely love her character even more if they have her address Anthony's sexism– it would be a disservice to her if they didn't!

[mc-critical]

How do you think Şah Huban and Ibrahim's relationship really was? We've never been given insights about it and while I would have loved flashbacks, the way it is also fits well imo. Şah has an air of mystery around her, part of why I love her so, because I love unravelling ambiguous yet clear characters with hints but not insights to their backstory. I've always been drawn to them and Şah Huban is another one of them.

Personally, I can see why they would be drawn to each other at first. They are both shown as appreciative of art, very intelligent and pragmatic and have a similar personality, but in the long run I can't see them working as both prefer to be the dominant partner and Şah is very prideful and always maintains a power balance with those not from the family, whereas Ibrahim is quite insecure. They'd clash.

Even Hatice's reminder of his status hurt him so much that he started an affair with Nigar. According to him, it was a loss of innocence between them and for sure Hatice's innocence, purity, and nativity is what I think drew him to her, and I can see why. Among all the darkness of politics, power plays, his own insecurities and early loss of innocence, Hatice would have been the one ray of light to him..Their entire early interactions and love was so pure and free of darkness and I don't think he ever had that with Şah, who I don't think was ever innocent.

Şah also told Hürrem that Ibrahim is quite difficult to control and I thought that was maybe hinting at the past. It always seemed to me that she was the one who ended things with Ibrahim, judging by her and Ibrahim's interactions ( I really wish we had more of those ) and I have many theories why.

Also, my personal interpretation is that she did move on from Ibrahim and only had vestiges of her feelings for him, his memories to be more precise, left by the time we see her. Unlike many people, I don't think her unwillingness to be with Lütfi sexually or romantically has anything to do with Ibrahim. I just don't think she loves him or wants him and I can see why tbh. While he is a decent enough politician, he doesn't have much personality to be attracted to nor demeanor lmao. even the way he read her that piece of poetry was quite dry, and he is visibly much older than her.

What do you think?

{I also love Şah's character for much of the same reasons you do. Her lack of a backstory and more simplistic design that isn't put through a deconstruction for a character arc in the way Hatice's was during S02/3 bring us one of the most unique characters in the whole franchise. These aspects of her personality complement her motivation and I find her motivation to be the most fascinating element about her that makes for an interesting, contrasting duality in all her relationships. Revealing more backstory for her risks throwing all this out of the window, that's why I'm usually okay with that the show not delving deeper into her past.}

Still, in the case of Ibrahim, I agree that we could've seen a few more flashbacks. I feel Şah's distance and tiny resentment of Hatice stems from her previous feelings for Ibrahim and more flashbacks would put that distance and resentment into more context, which I don't think would harm her character all that much. It would actually help flesh out Şah's relationship with Hatice on a deeper level and that's always welcome for me, since I found their relationship to be the epitome of where Şah's character shines the most. All these delicious contrasts, the way her ambition goes with the care she has for the people she's closest to.... I love it! sorry for the blabbering

I also pretty much agree with your view on Şah and Ibrahim's relationship. They definetly wouldn't get on all that well - their ideals would clash right out of the gate and Şah isn't a person that would pull rank out of ignorance, it's not something she wants to detach from, no, she's living with her position and she's proud of it. Anytime Ibrahim would disagree with Şah, I feel she's going to pull rank instantly. And that's not something that Ibrahim would bear - Hatice did it one time and that one time was enough to make him doubt his whole relationship with her, I believe with Şah it's going to be an even more reccuring conflict and it's going to make things even worse.

I believe that in Manisa, in their past, Şah didn't have hopes for so long when it came to Ibrahim. Maybe she learned very quickly that he didn't have any feelings for her. Maybe Ibrahim didn't pay all that much attention to Şah and if she tried to give him subtle hints, he didn't catch on them at first. If Ibrahim and Hatice indeed had tiny crushes on each other that just hadn't had the chance to flourish yet in Manisa (as the flashback from E58 implied) and Şah became aware of this? All these factors could've contributed to Şah moving forward, along with her ambitious personality. Even her older self isn't a person who would fight what she views as a pointless battle (she didn't want to fight Mihrimah, she didn't get why Hürrem was such a problem at first, she could hold her part in the decisions SS made for Hatice off for so long) and her love for Hatice was apparently present even when they were kids (the whole horse situation), so these would be decent enough reasons for her to want to step out of it.

Her getting to know Ibrahim more personally after he could've gotten the hint is very likely, too. Her "he's difficult to control" line is definetly something to ruminate on: maybe she decided that they wouldn't get along despite of all, because yes, she would like to be on the more controlling side of the relationship. Not only is Ibrahim very insecure and wouldn't handle it when someone is pulling rank on him, this line could hint that a part of Ibrahim has had that ambitious side of him back in Manisa. Not as much in terms of power, but rather as in his sharp mind and dreams he had together with SS to conquer more than Alexander the Great and maybe Şah felt this aspect of his ambition whenever they've interacted. That means he could have exerted some amount of control in the relationship, and maybe Şah wouldn't be so okay. Both could be very dominating and that could very well show even earlier. There wouldn't be any innocence in their relationship, it would only result in clash of personalities and philosophies and probably both of them got aware of this. While with Hatice it was possible for both of them to get over their extremely idealistic delusions, because they both were able and willing to reason with one another deep down, you wouldn't get that with Şah. It's probable she would consider herself right and not realize what's wrong, especially in terms of pulling rank, because well, that's what the tradition and law stands on and for her, Ibrahim's only role is to fit the mold.

Yup, Şah definetly had some of her feelings for Ibrahim remaining, because that's what moved a lot of her conflict with Hatice. Maybe she felt some jealousy that Hatice succeeded to make this work and that could be also a part of why she wanted to stop Hatice from grieving and didn't tell her where Ibrahim's grave was, but on the other hand, she had accepted it to an extent, as seen by her reaction when she learned about the infidelity. One could argue that she got irritated because of her own feelings, but I feel she felt bad for Hatice, too, and was really surprised that he pulled something like this. Yet both circle back to her own feelings anyways. Another reason why I think she didn't get over her feelings for him completely is that (most of) what she does is driven by personal desire and attacks directed to her personal bonds and attachments. It's Hatice's suicide attempt that drove Şah to act against Hürrem, but it's also Ibrahim's death that made her at least think whether should she act, in my opinion, because of something so surprising happening to a personal attachment of hers, seemingly all of the sudden. (in E84, she also said in front of Ibrahim's grave that she wouldn't let his blood stay on the ground) Şah's actions are driven by feelings more than anything else, but she tries her best to mask these feelings and only use them as fuel to her more pragmatic plans, if that means letting go of them or discarding them completely. She puts mind over emotion not because she doesn't have emotion or vulnerability or feelings lingering from the past, it's more because she considers pragmatism and careful planning the better, more effective way to achieve her goals. Just like the dynastic views and the elitism, it's something engrained in her she's proud of, but in the case of her feelings, when she's alone or with Hatice she can open herself a bit more. But because she has gotten over Ibrahim, she would never admit outright she has something for him in front of him or Lïtfi later.

I also don't think Ibrahim has ever had feelings for Şah to begin with. I don't think he forgot their experiences and memories completely (the "did your love turn into hate?" line) , but he has definitely left them behind him, even more than Şah herself.

While I think the love for another (Ibrahim) was a part of Şah's distaste for Lütfi, especially because the first hint of conflict between them, as far as I recall, was him sorta shading on Ibrahim in E82, it's definetly not the only factor. He just isn't a guy she could fall in love with, no matter how much he seemed to love her (more like tough love, but still), I'm sure she has gotten to know the more shadier aspects of his character, since they've lived together for so long. (even though the situation around the prostitute surprised her, since she hasn't ever seen such amount of disrespect, Şah may have seen other skeletons in his closet. He seemed to be very authoritarian in the relationship. She also said in E101 that the divorce was a long time coming and I don't think it all originated from the show, the situations there were simply the peak of previous issues.) It being a forced marriage made things even worse, no one would like a forced marriage. I actually admire Şah for keeping up with this marriage for so long and finding advantage in it, being as composed as possible. (when she is) Their daughter is most probably what kept them together all these years, on a personal level outside of Şah's ambition.

[littlehollyleaf]

Your Riddler Oracle Au (that you will never write) seriously sounds amazing. You could even add the tragedy kink in with Eddie becoming more and more enticed with the dark side (a 'personal trap' (description stolen from Norman Bates) because of his abusive upbringing) and both Batman and Foxy end up worrying about him as he slips more and more. Kinda like a telltale thing with John Doe, but dealing with Foxy way more, because of the years of love they had. Sorry, too much nerding of your au. 8P

(Au anon being overly annoying over here) it can even include Eddie becoming somewhat enamored with Ozzie, or the idea of Ozzie, similar to that Harley Quinn parallel post you put up earlier. Basically tempting that part of his mind to the dark side.

HI ANON I AM FINALLY REPLYING!

Firstly I just - god bless you for being so excited about my daydream ramblings

I ramble more OVER HERE with more AU thoughts/plotting that touches on Ed being tempted by darkness a little. Cos in my scenario I imagine him still trying/wanting to kill Tom Doughty - it’s just lucky that Foxy stops him in time. Plus I’d keep the whole bit with Eddie in Arkham torturing Bruce and Foxy, so he’d be tapping into his darker, slightly sadistic desires there (though in my scenario I picture him being influenced/brainwashed by Hugo into doing that - which, hi hi, has now been stolen as a plot by the show perhaps?? :p).

In the link above I stop my imagining at the end of S02, but listen... I HAVE SO MANY MORE FOXMA CANON-AU IDEAS, FOR REAL. IT KEEPS ME ENTERTAINED DURING BORING DAYS OKAY?? 

So, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry, but you inspired me to write them down.

Please forgive me for the insanely extensive ramble!

So, as I hint in the link, I was thinking -

S03 Eddie as Chief of Staff to Ozzie plot al a canon

For purposes of ~drama I like to daydream that Eddie is on compulsory sick leave from the GCPD because whatever Hugo did to him at Arkham has been fucking him up a little - causing him to have violent episodes, hallucinations..... basically I guess the mental break that happened after he killed Tom in canon

Foxy has been the wonderful, caring, loving, supportive boyfriend we all know he would be and helping Ed as best he can through all this

Oh they are also totally living together now

But Ed is scared to talk to Foxy about all the dark impulses that Hugo’s tinkering has brought to light in him because Foxy is (so he thinks) all pure and stuff and Ed doesn’t want to burden him or risk scaring Foxy away

Plus Ed is going crazy not being able to work

So one day when he turns up at the GCPD trying to convince Jim to let him come back and is refused (politely and with sympathy) he just SNAPS and RAGE QUITS and stomps out... only to be found moping on the sidewalk a while later by Ozzie

Now Ozzie, like in canon, has grown rather fond of Ed due to Ed nursing him back to health after being shot by Galavan and ofc in this world from Eddie going to visit him in Arkham and then trying to save him from Hugo

So on learning that Ed has been, so Ozzie spins it, ‘fired’ for being ‘violent’ or whatever, Ozzie immediately offers Ed a job helping in his Mayoral campaign

Probably Ed and Ozzie end up having a little chat about violent impulses and the like too, because it’s easier to talk to an infamous violent criminal about such things than it is with a seemingly innocent, saintly boyfriend, causing Ed to immediately warm to the idea of working with Oswald and maybe by doing so being able to unburden himself of his troublesome thoughts/feelings and... maybe even find some possible outlets for them...? ie. being enticed towards darker acts like you suggest anon!

When Ed reveals this to Foxy though, Foxy is... NOT HAPPY with the idea of Ed working with a criminal like Ozzie. Partly because he does not approve of the idea of Oswald as a Mayor and partly because he fears it won’t be good for Ed’s mental health

Which leads to a HUGE FIGHT with Eddie claiming that Foxy is being unfair about Oswald and treating Ed like he’s a child who can’t make his own decisions and the more Foxy tries to explain that’s not true the worse it sounds and the madder Ed gets. Plus any defence of Ozzie is met with disdain by Foxy. Until eventually they build up to some kind of ultimatum where Foxy tells Ed that ofc he’s capable of making his own decisions, but if he agrees to work with Oswald then Foxy can’t in good conscious continue with their relationship!

So a furious Ed is just - FINE THEN! And packs up his stuff and leaves.

And you can tell that both of them regret this RIGHT AWAY - Ed hovering outside the door on the verge of returning, Foxy with his hand on the doorknob poised to go after Ed and apologise

But in a tragic twist of timing they fail to make up - just as Eddie is about to return some neighbours walk by and see him with his suitcase and he feels compelled to walk on, then just as he’s out of sight Foxy plucks up the courage to open the door only to find Ed gone, noooo

Leading to Eddie turning up at the Van Dahl mansion suitcase in hand (maybe wet too, let’s imagine it raining!) where he tells Ozzie - yes I’ll take the job, but, I also kinda need somewhere to stay...

This is where the nygmobblepot - enticement towards darkness part really comes in!

Ozzie welcomes Ed in with open arms ofc and his journey to becoming Mayor plays out pretty much as in canon, with Eddie doing his supportive stuff and dipping into ‘lightly’ criminal behaviour to do so

Ozzie completely falls for Ed along the way, makes him Chief of Staff etc.

Ed is maybe, slightly, starting to develop deeper feelings for Ozzie too... and maybe there’s a bit of a ‘rebound’ aspect to it, but maybe not... plus Ozzie HAS been constantly accepting of Ed’s ‘darkside’ without judgement, which endears him to Ed, as well as the opportunities Ozzie may have provided to allow Ed to indulge said darkness (letting Ed help with interrogations and the like)

(also a lot of the warmth we saw build between Ed and Ozzie in S02 would totally have happened here as well - so they’ve got that history)

Meanwhile Foxy has taken over Ed’s job at the GCPD and watches Ed’s advancement on the news with growing concern... but also a little pride? Because... Ed seems happy... and healthy... and... maybe Oswald isn’t doing a TERRIBLE job as Mayor? (since Foxy wouldn’t know about the ins and outs of Ozzie also running the criminal underworld and how ever more deeply involved Ed is becoming with that)

UNTIL

That fateful day Ozzie plucks up the courage to confess his feelings and Ed stops off at a liquor store to purchase a bottle of wine.......

Only ofc it’s not Isabella Ed runs into 

So Ed finds Foxy while buying wine. They end up talking through the night. Both of them apologise for past behaviour. Foxy even reluctantly compliments Ozzie maybe. They both admit they miss each other. Feelings are rekindled. Kisses. They agree to try again.

Ed on learning the time, as in canon, rushes back to a frantic Ozzie and reveals that he and Foxy have decided to rekindle their romance and ISN’T IT GREAT?? :p

All the stuff about ‘second chances’ that Ed applied to Izzy in canon now fits rather nicely with him and Foxy :)

Ozzie’s jealousy progresses as in canon... to its inevitable conclusion (maybe there’s even a moment of crisis where Ed tries to break up with Foxy out of fear that he will hurt him, like he feared with Izzy, but Foxy also calms Ed’s fears... albeit without creepy cosplay... but maybe with rough sex though...? Foxy showing Ed that he’s not an innocent snowflake and can handle it if Ed needs to be a little dark...??)

OFC IN THIS SCENARIO OZZIE FAILS TO ACTUALLY KILL FOXY!

BUT - there’s a brief time where Foxy SEEMS to be dead (perhaps a mangled body was found in/by his crashed car that there is enough evidence to SUGGEST is Foxy for everyone to believe it... but actually it was a homeless man Foxy was giving a lift to a shelter or something... look you can’t expect me to think of ALL the details!)

AND OKAY HERE’S THE THING - while Ed thinks Foxy is dead, his whole development into The Riddler PLAYS OUT JUST AS IN CANON after Izzy died

So that’s - going through discovering Foxy was ‘murdered,’ blaming Butch, the whole bit with him and Tabby and the mini-guillotine, learning it was Ozzie who did it, teaming up with Babs etc against him, all the way to the docks and everything

Until we get lost and confused Ed post-Ozzie’s death going on his academic killing spree and sending riddles to the GCPD

Unhappily for Ed he only has poor Harvey to play with, since Jim is off doing important Court of Owls related plot business and Foxy is ofc unavailable

During it all Ed has some AMAZING hallucinations of BOTH OSWALD AND FOXY though... I confess I haven’t thought those through... but they DEFINITELY HAPPEN

How Harvey gets on with the chess and ‘belly of the beast’ stuff idk... maybe Lee helps... but somehow he muddles through to the finale with Eddie dangling him over the stairwell and asking his final three riddles

EXCEPT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME A WILD VERY MUCH ALIVE FOXY APPEARS AND BEGS ED TO STOP

Ofc Ed just thinks he’s hallucinating at first until Harvey exclaims his shock at Lucius being alive

Cue an intense, emotional conversation. Foxy, as in canon, twigs that Ed has killed Penguin. Ed counters, desperately - he killed you! Foxy is sympathetic. Loving. Reassuring Ed that he isn’t dead (he’s been in a coma listed as a John Doe or something, shhhh, details), that they can make this right

You can see Ed wants to believe this so badly... but he is torn... he’d built himself up into becoming a criminal, felt like fate had pushed him into it, he’d felt READY to be that man

How? he cries. How can we make this right? It’s not just Oswald. I’ve done things, killed people. I’ve killed people, Foxy, and I liked it!

It doesn’t matter what you’ve done, Foxy would insist. You’re still my Ed. My Riddler. Please, you don’t have to do this.

And Foxy would move closer, reaching out. 

And Ed would be on the verge of taking Foxy’s hand.

...but that’s when the rope holding Harvey would snap.

And a pained Ed would shake his head and back away - I’m sorry. I’m sorry, it’s too late!

Leaving Foxy to catch a falling Harvey while Ed runs away

I’m sorry I know this is too long and ridiculous but it’s been on my mind for SO.LONG and I’ve got a whole Court of Owls bit as well

In an effort to slot this whole AU into the canon as much as I can I picture Ed going on to try and be a criminal like he does in the show - green suit, robbing three banks in one night and all that (but I’m vetoing the use of the name ‘Riddler’ at this point)

Meanwhile Foxy is, just, distraught back at the GCPD - INSISTING to Jim and everyone that Ed is not himself, that he needs help, that they need to find him, that if they just find him he can talk Ed down he promises

And Jim is sympathetic probably, reassuring Foxy that the GCPD is doing all they can, that they all care about Ed (which may or may not be stretching the truth some at this point) and will do their best to bring him in without hurting him (Kristen, who is still alive, is also on Ed’s side maybe?)

Then we’ve got Babs drawing Ed into the Court of Owls stuff

And Ed in this AU is... much more obviously conflicted about his current life choices and acting reckless/suicidal (because dramatic death seems like an easy way out of his current emotional struggles)

So, as in canon, he jumps at the chance to poke at a dangerous, secret organisation

The whole thing with the Mayor and Jim at the GCPD plays out and Jim lets the Court capture Ed (which Foxy is PISSED to learn about after the fact because W.T.F Jim you promised you would bring him in safe! why didn’t you tell me? I could have talked him out of it if I’d been there!)

Cue Ed discovering Ozzie is alive and the two of them teaming up to bust out together

Cut to Foxy returning to the GCPD late at night - he’s forgotten a file he needs, he’s been very distracted lately

Only when he enters the building he finds - ED, in full ‘not-Riddler’ outfit, sitting at one of the desks

Foxy assumes Ed has come to see him, but what he doesn’t notice is that Ed is as surprised to see him as Foxy is to find him

But before they can have a real conversation - Jim arrives

And Foxy, like, PANICS and jumps in front of Jim, yelling at Ed to run, to just go, he’ll stop Jim, Ed just needs to get out before he’s caught (Foxy has grown less enamoured of the plan to have the GCPD catch Ed since Jim let the Court take him)

Except Ed just puts a quiet hand on Foxy’s shoulder and tells Foxy he’s sweet... but actually it’s Jim he’s come to see, dun dun!

TWIST - it turns out that Ed has been WORKING WITH/FOR JIM ever since Babs approached him about the Court

Eddie had found Jim and offered to become a spy on the Court if Jim promised to clear his criminal record in return

Meaning the whole ‘letting Ed be captured by the Court’ was really a ruse Jim and Ed had concocted together to get Ed inside the Court

Brief comedy moment where Jim is all - nice to see where your priorities lie though, Lucius - about Foxy trying to help Ed escape justice :p

Foxy is all - ?????? about all this ofc. But focuses on how dangerous it was for Ed to let himself be captured by the Court

Ed just shrugs off his possible death - it’s the only way he could see to untangle himself from the criminal he’d become, to stand any chance of him and Foxy getting back to how they were

There’s a quick debrief with Jim - unfortunately Ed learnt little, only that Ozzie is still alive (which Jim already knew at this point) and that the Court are planning something big

Foxy wants to take Ed home at this point - end the whole thing. But Ed thinks he should go back to Babs etc - that he might be able to learn more while still a criminal

(also secretly Ed is still reeling over Ozzie not being dead and there is a dark part of him that very much wants to try and kill Ozzie again)

Then we have Jervis and his blood being needed to cure the virus the Court unleashes

In canon Ed helps Babs take Jervis from Jim, then Jim bargains with Ed, offering him Ozzie to get him to hand Jervis over.... 

I’m fuzzy on how this would work in the AU... maybe Ed actually helps figure out that Jervis’ blood is key to the cure?

...I think...he would have to NOT be involved in Babs kidnapping Jervis, because he’d WANT Jim, Foxy etc to get Jervis’ blood, WANT to help cure the virus

But Babs ends up with Jervis anyways

So in this scenario Ed calls Jim to let him know he can get him Jervis..... BUT.... in the meantime Ed has discovered Jim has Ozzie and his dark impulses get the better of him - he refuses to hand Jervis over unless Jim delivers Ozzie

He tried to kill the man I love, Jim, Ed insists.

So Jim, making very sure not to tell Foxy, agrees

We get the warehouse scene (...maybe without the hand grenade around Jervis... maybe not :p)

Followed by Ozzie knocking Ed out, the car, Ed seemingly escaping...

...and on to the second docks scene

EXCEPT EXCEPT EXCEPT

When it comes to the pivotal moment when Ed has the chance to shoot Ozzie again and get it right this time...

...HE DOESN’T

He thinks of Foxy and of the better man Foxy sees in him and realises that’s the man he wants to be

I can’t, he says. If I do this, Lucius and I are over. I can’t be this man and still be with him. 

He gives Ozzie back the gun

Ozzie gives him a curious look

You really love him, don’t you?

Ed nods

Ozzie nods back, understanding. Then lifts the gun and pulls the trigger

It’s unloaded ofc - and Ozzie explains about taking out the bullets, nods to where Freeze and Ivy are appearing behind Eddie

Ed asks if Ozzie is going to kill him and Ozzie says he considered it, that he considered worse - it all depended on what Ed chose to do

But since Ed chose to spare him, Ozzie spares Ed as well and tells him to go back to the man he loves - something sappy about life only giving you one true love and Ed is lucky to have found his

Maybe Ed looks at Ozzie thoughtfully (slightly longingly?) for a moment and says something about - maybe, in another lifetime...

Cut to Foxy returning home after... helping with the virus cure... whatever he was doing at the end of S03!

Ed is waiting for him inside. In the dark, so Foxy is surprised by him when he turns on the light. Because Ed is embracing his Extraness now :p

INTENSE EMOTIONAL CONVERSATION

Foxy has discovered that Ed asked for Oswald and Jim gave him up and confronts Ed about it

Ed says he took Oswald to the docks to shoot him... but like, leaves it a little unclear for a bit what actually happened because he wants to know how Foxy would react to him having killed Ozzie, for real this time

And here’s my kicker - Foxy disapproves... but he accepts it. Is willing to still be with Ed, even knowing Ed has committed premeditated murder in what is arguably sound mind (his killing spree after Foxy’s ‘death’ being something Foxy has been justifying as a result of mental illness)

Which is, ofc, a hell of an emotional boost to Ed!

Cue angry, relieved punching when Ed reveals the truth 

...some stuff with Ed insisting that he’s different now - they can’t go back to how they were, there’s a ‘darkness’ in him and that’s not going to change

Foxy telling him he understands. 

Something like - this is Gotham, living here, you need some darkness in you or you won’t survive...

....some kind of fancy wordplay anyways that shows that Foxy can handle darkness and isn’t exactly all light himself

Which leads to kinky sex

THE END

only not ofc :p

because you have all of S04... 

I don’t have a full plot for that, but I imagine Ed getting involved with Ozzie’s battle with Sofia somehow, because Ed withstanding torture for Ozzie and Ozzie giving up his revenge for Ed is just.... TOO GOOD and I need it to exist in this AU as well...

I have out of context ideas about Ed helping with Martin as well still, and he, Foxy AND OSWALD end up all living together with Martin for a bit (or at least Martin lives with Ed and Foxy and Ozzie comes to visit)

...which ties in to my secret Endgame Scenario where, in the midst of proper Batman times, Ozzie EVENTUALLY (after lots of criminal shenanigans) ends up going (mostly) legit and he, Eddie and Foxy develop a working poly relationship... but that’s in the far future :p

(also I’ve got a whole ~THING where Eddie finds out Foxy works for Batman - cos it’s not Foxy’s secret to tell, right? so I figure he would feel honour bound to keep the fact Bruce is Batman even from his boyfriend... only Eddie is not dumb and notices Foxy working later than he should and maybe Foxy’s excuses don’t hold up and whatnot and long story short Eddie becomes, reluctantly, convinced that FOXY MUST BE HAVING AN AFFAIR, even though it doesn’t fit his character AT ALL and by all accounts shouldn’t make sense... so anyway, yeah, he confronts Foxy, and Foxy CAN’T tell him the truth, so with Foxy refusing to explain himself Eddie is forced to conclude that his suspicions must be correct and it’s all just awkward and upsetting...

...only obviously Ed finds out the truth soon after - I keep picturing a scene where he comes upon Barbara Gordon at the GCPD (which Eddie goes back to work at fyi - teaming up with Foxy there for a bit till Foxy goes back to Wayne Enterprises). He finds her trying to hack into Batman’s radio, because she’s a fan. And because Eddie needs a distraction from his homelife (and is also a fan) he helps her and they succeed, only to listen in to Batman having a conversation WITH FOXY, leaving Ed all - ??????!

and ofc he hijacks the line and is all - FOXY THE FUCK?! 

...followed by a shocked (slightly awed) - FOXY OMG ARE YOU HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH BATMAN??

to which Bruce and Lucius are both - aaaaah! wow, omg, fucking NO!

...and yeah, that’s how Ed finds out his boyfriend works for the Bat and ultimately leads to him (and Barbara) joining the team :p)

Soooo... yes... there we go. A more detailed look into my ‘Ed and Foxy were friends at uni’ foxma AU version of Gotham/Batman, including Eddie having an ongoing, complicated relationship with Oswald which involves him constantly struggling with his darker impulses and being tempted to... less than lawful/ethical/moral behaviour.

(I feel like maybe sometimes as well, when Eddie is working alongside the Bat Fam, he maybe... quietly orchestrates things so certainly particularly vile villains end up, um, ‘unalive’ ...but in ways that aren’t obviously deliberate... or maybe even occasionally, secretly teams up with Ozzie to help bump off various people...

oh shit and yeah that’s the other thing - in this AU, when Eddie becomes Oracle!Riddler... mostly I just take it as read that Ozzie 100% knows it’s him from the get go... but he just... never says anything... and even though he knows that technically he could probably go after Eddie and try and torture the identity of Batman out of him, Ozzie just... doesn’t... because - love, you know? ;p)

God this is way too long, I’m so very sorry...