#the actors and duffers are right…

[starsarefire824]

rewatching season 1 and its confirming my bi mike truth. for real.

• he goes out of his way for her

•he speaks to her with the same Will Voice™️ in a lot of the scenes.

• he tried to kiss her unprompted in the bathroom. (she has literally no idea what he’s doing)

• when he says she’s pretty especially the second time, he really means it. I read his confused face more as I can’t believe I said that kind of thing and not a ew gross kind of thing

•his speech at the end is definitely him trying and failing to say that he likes her romantically (as romantic as a 12 year old romance can be anyway)

Now, she’s very androgynous and sure that can he explained as he prefers her when she looks like a boy (like Will), but that’s a moot point in my opinion cause bi people have very differing tastes usually when it comes to different genders. (Something he would be totally unaware of at that age and also is something that evolves/changes)

I think watching season one and two combined has really confirmed this for me. Season 1 is El and his feelings for her. Season 2 switches to Will and his feelings for him. Season 3 is when they are all finally thrown together and how he can’t balance them in his life because the feelings for both are romantic. (I don’t think he’s self-aware enough there to realize that though in regards to Will). I think that there is a lot of what actors’ and creators’ have said going on there. Mike is trying to be this picture in his head of what “normal” looks like.

Then season 4 imo is the fallout of that struggle (which i also think continues in a more adult/direct way but it sort of is really putting even more pressure on both of his relationships). He’s a bit older and the two most important people in his life are thousands of miles away. Like he said himself, “his other friends are great, but they aren’t Will). I think that hug scene was the culmination of him realizing how much he’s missed Will isn’t “normal”. I think he’s realizing that those feelings are equal (or imo overpower) what he feels for El. I think maybe, painfully slowly, he’s realizing that he’s attracted/wants to be with Will in a way that isn’t “normal”. I don’t think he’s thinking romance per se (yet), but I think he’s thinking “why the hell am i jealous?” “why is it weird to touch him?” “why am i so upset he never called me?” why do i want that painting so badly?” “why can’t i tell my girlfriend i thought i loved the three words she begged me to say?” To me, that is a very queer experience, but specifically a bi person who hasn’t quite realized that they’re bi yet. The confusion can be astounding at times, and emotions and reactions to things tend to be intense in a way that leaves you reeling. Or floundering in Mike’s case.

Idk these are just a lot of random thoughts, but I firmly believe that season 5 will address whatever is happening in Mike Wheeler’s brain regarding his true feelings for Will and El.

I also think that El already had an inkling of “why” Mike couldn’t say I love you. (And no it’s not because his parents didn’t show him how 🙄) And she’s slowly realizing in season 4 that “why” is her step-brother. I think that was made very obvious with the thought bubble imagery and how she was responding, or lack thereof to Mike in the monologue and back in Hawkins.

Miscellaneous thoughts about season 1: people must be thick in the head about Will if they think him being gay came out of nowhere. There are at least 10 instances of characters referencing that in conversations. And damn, if that Ted Wheeler comment, “you see Michael, you see what happens” wasn’t insinuating something. Mike misses it cause he’s too little, but any adult can see he’s saying, “you see what happens to queer kids?”

Then season 2 they spent the whole season building up how different and strong Mike and Will’s relationship was, and how Mike was there for Will no matter what. He was so unwavering in his love and support for Will. And in season 3, I think is when Will actively realized just how different he was and what his love for Mike actually meant, like he was looking it dead in the face in that season in a real, grown up way. And the person he realizes he loves is pushing him away and just not understanding him and what do you do when the person, that you’ve been told your whole life is unnatural, not “normal” to love, is constantly choosing another person over you. That they aren’t even able to make a friendship work let alone something you might daydream about. I’m probably repeating myself but the writers have made it very plain that Mike cannot for the life of him balance his time, attention or emotional availability between Will and El. And if season 3 didn’t make it painfully obvious that Will was having complicated feelings about Mike. Like yeah, they didn’t spell it out directly, but the fact that some people were like wow this whole Mike love thing for Will came out of nowhere??? Like are we watching the same show? I could see that on a first watch years ago.

[ghostlycleric]

Will getting to be the kid he was before he went missing just for one moment. Holly potentially going missing after this race (just like Will did), tainting that happy memory with UD trauma too. Guys.

[brionysea]

wait holy shit does possessiongate mean finn wolfhard gets to act evil in season 5. is it gonna be like noah schnapp acting his ass off and stealing the show when will was possessed. i'm so down for this holy shit. the mike wheeler season. protagonist era coming full circle. external villainy that allows for internal exploration of the hidden character angst that we haven't been allowed to see before because the conflict hinges entirely on what's going on in his mind i'm SO down for this

[tsugarubecker]

The way this shot at the roller rink frames Mike & El under "Rental" while also drawing visual comparisons between Will and El: very similar shirt, similar height, similar haircut, and the actors have been instructed to hold the roller skates the same way while Mike holds his differently. The blocking practically demands that we the audience see El and Will as twins or somehow interchangeable. (Which, romantically, El is Will's stand-in, to Mike - the socially acceptable option that he can project upon because she began her social life as a mostly blank slate). This visual at the roller rink reminds me of the careful framing, now-famous among Bylers, of Mike in-the-closet while El kisses him. (She could easily back him in there and shut the door and he'd be like 🧍‍♂️🚪 ... lol.) The Duffers don't do everything right, but they (and others, Sean Levy amongst them I'm sure) are very skilled at building a narrative through blocking, background objects, lighting, and other visual and non-dialogue avenues.

[steveharrington]

major hornets nest moment here but i must speak my truth. its so fascinating to me how will byers was clearly written with the driving motivation and intention of making him a beloved fan favorite character and instead he falls so flat that, if you asked the average casual viewer of the show who doesn't engage in the fandom like, say, your coworker, the odds of him even being in their top five of favorite characters is pretty low.

will's disappearance kicks off the plot, singlehandedly. the first episode is literally called the vanishing of will byers. his name is shouted so much in the first season that most people would recognize the reference if you used the right cadence and desperation that winona ryder does. after not being featured much in season one, you'd think season two would've just like launched will/noah schnapp into stardom with how much more screentime he's given and how dramatic his plot is that season. but instead the fan favorites of season 2 were by and large el, hopper, dustin, steve, max, even bob who's barely there. that's not to say that there AREN'T will fans out there (and online i understand there are like entire armies dedicated to him/byler, but i'm talking about the average opinion of viewers as a whole, not just in fandom spaces) but think about all the stranger things merch you see in stores, the halloween costumes, the characters that appear in promotional materials when the show has partnerships with brands....will is so rarely featured. idk if any of yall ever got the chance to visit the stranger things pop up shop in any of its various locations, but there was such little mention of will in the stores theming or merchandise that it was almost funny. actually it WAS funny, to me, someone who does not care for him

i think the flop can be attributed to many things. one, noah schnapp is just not a very good actor and he doesn't have the same appeal in his performances that millie, sadie, caleb, gaten, priah, or finn do (although finn i've noticed is also kinda falling out of favor from majority audiences). one could argue that noah schnapp intentionally isn't given much to do, which is true and i'll circle back to that, but the decline in his acting between seasons 2 and 3 is truly a sight to behold. when he's not like tied up and screaming, he reallllllly struggles on the smaller scale performances compared to the other cast members his age. he doesn't really have the charm that gaten does or the humor that priah does or the depth that caleb does. (i don’t feel bad about saying this, btw, given noah schnapp’s behavior)

back to the vanishing of will byer's screen time. my beloved prettymuchit's eric striffler commented on how diminished will and mike's roles in the story have become in s4. "noah schnapp is below the grips on the call sheet" is my fav line, but he also makes an observation on finn's role that i think is soooo accurate. when mike and will are kneeling down next to the pizza dough freezer and watching el just kinda twitch while she fights vecna in her mind, eric and his co-host miles say "this is so embarrassing! finn's like, 'oh so gaten's fighting the monster? and i'm kneeling next to a tub at a pizza place? i used to be this show" and i think the same exact sentiment can be superimposed onto will

but i think this happened naturally, as the nature of the show is to shift its focus from character to character. not to mention the duffer brothers' obsession with tweaking their story to give audiences what they want. i've always held the belief that there isn't one main character of stranger things, rather a rotating circle of characters depending on the season you're watching. season one is mike, season two is hopper, season three is el, season four is max imo. again that's a little subjective and arguments could be made to swap those a little, but overall i think those characters stories and point of views take center stage during each of their respective seasons. by season 3, the duffers wanted to kick things up to a larger scale. the UD is no longer targeting just will, it's targeting the entire town. this works because a THIRD season in a row where this one kid specifically gets possessed would just be bonkers, so they kinda had to let him take a backseat. i'm not sure why they didn't let will be more involved in the mystery-solving portion of season 3....to this day that decision baffles me, but what's done is done and the will that everyone watched in season 3 literally just kinda follows everyone around and gets a small little slice of a plotline about wanting things to go back to normal, but alas

it like totally worked, though. though there are MANY complaints commonly made about season 3, i've never heard anyone offline complain that there wasn't enough will byers. i think the group in s3 that had the most success like, commercially, would be scoops troop and then a bit farther back i think most audiences enjoyed hopper/joyce/murray's dynamic. i think if there had been a huge outcry in the minimizing of will's role, the duffers would've backpedaled immediately. they aim to please. they can't even commit to killing of a main character out of fear that audiences will lose interest if we permanently lose hopper or max, so they just do some creative writing that allows them to milk the emotional consequence of those characters deaths without actually writing them off. if audiences on a large scale demanded that will be center stage, he would be. but they dont!

final point: i think will gets fucked over by the duffers obsession with romance. in season one, two of will's strongest dynamics are with his mom and brother. which like, yeah. theyre his immediately family and he is 12. but in seasons 2 and 3, jonathan spent all his screen time with nancy and from 2-4, joyce has spent all her screen time either with hopper or in the pursuit of finding hopper. these characters are written together as a package deal, typically. it was refreshing and unexpected to see jonathan get a whole season with a friend of his very own and his siblings, but they barely took advantage of that. jonathan and will get ummmm one (1) scene to talk about their emotions in a fucking 20 hour season. it's hard for will to be a main character when he rarely gets to interact with the people that make up the other half of his main dynamics.

as for byler, im of the belief that it will not be endgame because i just don't think they're going to break up mike and el at this point. i could be completely wrong and stand corrected, but im like 90% sure lol. i do think that will's s4 storyline resonated with a lot of people. even eric striffler! i think the issue is that the vastttt majority of people who watch this show above the age of like 15 do not feel invested about the romantic relationships between any of the kids. because why would they!!! theyre literally in middle school for 3/4 of the show. you would be hard pressed to find a vocal will stan online who doesn't also dedicate 90% of their engagement with the show to byler. which makes sense, because most if not all of will's scenes revolve around mike to some degree. but according to neilsen, the majority of stranger things audience is consistently in the 18-49 age range season by season. its more likely for adult audiences to identify with adults (or characters who are narratively treated like adults, like steve and nancy) than with any of the kids. esp when the kid in question, despite being written as the focal point of the show, has less relevant plotlines, less interaction with other characters, and an actor who just doesn't deliver on charm the way his fellow younger costars do

[imsodishy]

So, the season 2 Billy and Karen interaction is glaringly, textually, Karen having her porn-brain on and confusing real life for her fantasy.

Like that was the point. That was the joke, and it was a joke at Karen's expense. Karen was reading a dirty book and then she projected that directly onto the 17 year old boy who has strolled up to her door, and Billy is playing her to get information he needs (why a 17 year old boy defaults to transactional sexual behaviours with much older women is an entirely other post that I don't have time to get into right now).

Which is why the whole scenario feels like a really really terrible and awkward porn set up. Seriously, put a toolbelt on Billy and it's porno 101. Except it is, of course, not porn. So Billy just leaves and drops the act immediately, because he does not have porn-brain on. If anything, he has porn-actor-brain.

The problem is that the Duffers let their porn-brains take over and forgot that it was supposed to be a joke. So in season 3 we get yet another awful porn setup (cringe worthy dialogue and all), lifeguard flavour this time, except it's played straight (badum-tss) which just makes it even more awkward and stilted and uncomfortable.

The whole storyline was a bungled joke.

[bylrlve]

Warning! Potential spoilers for season five of Stranger Things!

Ross Duffer has posted more pictures - this one, of the four Party members stacking hands (from Top to Bottom: Dustin, Will, Lucas, Mike), has caused the most buzz. The blue sweater Mike is wearing, and Will’s red sleeve, aren’t totally dissimilar from the outfits the actors wore when we got our first glimpse of Will Byers last month:

I feel confident that Finn, anyway, is wearing the same thing, and that the farm scenes and this one are close together. It has been revealed this week that they were filming 504 a month ago, as the bottom-right monitor in this recent pic says Tues, Feb 13:

Lastly, the pic above, posted today, is of the Duffer brothers, Finn, and Maya at the radio station. Finn seems to be wearing the same grey sweatshirt that he wore for that El+Mike chat, and Maya appears to be wearing the same clothes as the ones in that birthday video on the farm set - a purple long-sleeved top under a big leather jacket.

Are Mike and Robin, and potentially also Will, going to be filming scenes together that chronologically occur near this El+Mike, weirdly platonic-seeming talk on the radio station roof? Hmm, wonder what they could possibly be talking about, if they are going to interact….

[littleclosetofbyler]

I personally don’t really want Byler to hook up in season 5 purely because it doesn’t feel like something either Mike or Will would jump to doing immediately, especially not Will (though we may see a more confident side of him in season 5 that might want to especially with an “end of the world” vibe weighing on them), I could see Will wanting a more “ease into it” or “sweet romance first” type of relationship, and having both Mike and Will go from deep in the closet to immediately dtf doesn’t feel right.

But I understand why people want it especially since in season 5 they’ll be older than Nancy was in season 1 and the same age as Jonathan and Nancy in season 2, and in season 1 Nancy hooked up with Steve and in season 2 Nancy and Jonathan hooked up, so by having Byler hook up, it does equivocate them with the other older teen straight ships we’ve so far seen be romantically entangled. A lot of media, especially teen media (which ST isn’t, but the majority of the characters are young) feel the need to “purify” queer ships, so Byler not hooking up may come across as trying to do just that.

But again I personally don’t want them to hook up because I don’t feel like it makes sense right away immediately after a confession or kiss for Will and Mike specifically. If there was to be a season 6 then that’s when I’d want them to have their own implied hook up scene because I think both characters wouldn’t be able to go from repressed in the closet to immediately hooking up at the drop of a hat, they already have enough to process and come to terms with regarding their sexuality, sex itself just seems like it would be something to build up to together.

(I’m aroace though so maybe that’s affecting my personal opinion?)

Anyways I do think the Duffers will give us a kiss, I think they’ve set it up where it’ll be this incredible moment of joy and catharsis, and I don’t think the Duffers are cowards, I think they’ll push for this especially since it’s the final season. Fuck Netflix, this is the culmination of a slow burn friends to lovers romance and I think they’ll want to do it justice.

I got indeed a lot of hate for that post, and your message. Thanks for being civil.

I think the opposite, it's not about being pure, it's about it needing to be just a friends to lovers without going overboard with hypersexualization or fan service.

The thing with S1 and the teens is that we as GA at the time, never saw them as teens, because we didn't know them at the time, they were new and getting into show for it.

In S5 when the kids will be that age (20-24 actors, 16 characters) it's "okay" but it's also weird as hell because they entered the story at 11... i don't know about you but I would rather no see this kind of scene with anyone I would have meet at that age.

When I say a lot of you are young for this, I mean it in the sense that you haven't seen the fandom act; the same happened with Harry Potter in 2001 when we didn't even know how to stories would end, everyone was insane for it.

Then the infamous scene in that last part happened and... everyone was weirded out.

Media is a weird format, and a lot of fans are weird, doesn't matter which side we are from.

And people just leave a comment, I don't go well with asks, I don't even know how they work, i am here for the theories.

[jazy3]

To kick off Stranger Things Day 2024 we got the episode titles for Season 5! Which are as follows:

The Crawl

The Vanishing of **Redacted**

The Turnbow Trap

Sorcerer

Shock Jock

Escape from Camazotz 

The Bridge

The Rightside Up

I feel like The Crawl has to be something to do with Vecna. Like maybe he's crawling out of somewhere or to something? For Chapter 2 I feel like the person vanishing is probably Holly Wheeler. They recast the actress playing her this season and she got a lot of screentime in the BTS Teaser Trailer. And in the clips they gave us you can see the lights flicking and her staring at something horrifying.

I think the Sorcerer is likely about Will the Wise and is going to be a Will focused episode. This might be where we see a lot of the flashbacks to his time in the Upside Down that they've been filming. I think Shock Jock is about Jimmy Fasthands Lee the guy we saw advertised on the WSQK Radio Station poster or it's got something to do with Dustin either working or volunteering at the radio station.

For Escape from Camazotz I have a few theories. It could be about our heroes escaping from the lab or Vecna’s lair maybe? Or it could be about them escaping from a military base? I think The Bridge refers to a bridge between worlds and will have something to do with crossing the boundary between the Upside Down and the Right Side Up.

And lastly, I love that they chose The Rightside Up as the final chaper title for the series! It's such a cool callback and it really brings everything full circle. I think this episode is going to be about the characters returning to Hawkins from the Upside Down and us seeing the end of their journey.

It's interesting that Chapters 4 - 6 don’t begin with word “the.” I didn't notice that until a friend pointed it out to me, but now I can't stop wondering what it means. I wonder if it has something to do with D&D gameplay or the sections that the story is broken up into like a beginning, middle, and end?

The caption for this video reads "In the fall of 1987, one last adventure begins. Stranger Things 5 coming 2025." which means there will be a 17 month time jump in Season 5 which will take us from the Spring of 1986 to the Fall of 1987. This is certainley a surprise given what the Duffer Brothers had previously said in interviews about Season 5 dovetailing off of Season 4 and how they did all of the set up in Season 4 so they could jump right into the action in Season 5 right from the get go.

I suspect they made this change because so much time has passed since filming wrapped on Season 4 and the younger actors have aged so significantly they could no longer pass for middle schoolers or freshman. Which is a shame! It also leaves a lot of questions to be answered. Like how did the town survive for 17 months with the Upside Down fully merging into Hawkins? Has Max been in a coma for 17 months? Did the older teens leave for college and university? I guess we'll find out in 2025!

[pythoness94]

My opinion on "Chance

Okay, listen, let me ramble for a minute. I don't think Chance is real. To have "Chance" Makes no fucking sense. Sure, it gets Mike jealous, but Mike doesn't need to be jealous for Byler to get together. They can do that on their own time, but from a non-Byler shipping standpoint, it makes no sense too. Chance adds nothing to the plot. What would he do? Why would he care about Will? Why would Will give a fuck about him? Why would Will get over Mike in this season of all times? Why, why, why? and not enough time to answer it. and that's the most pressing issue, time. This is the final season, we can't have Eddie's, Argyle's, and Max's popping up now. Erica's friend (Which is who I think the younger male actor is, the one with the glasses.) can pass because he's probably a minor role. But a whole ass love interest for the main character in the FINAL season. There isn't a spot for him, the cast is to big, there is to many stories going at once, to many dots to connect, for this Chance character to fit in easily. He won't be developed right, he will take away precious time from other characters, and he won't be a satisfying end for Will.

That is the most important part, Will's character ending. From the start Will has been pushed down again, and again, and again. There is a reason that "Will Byers needs a break" is a character tag for ao3, we all want Will to be happy, and a half-baked character introduced THIS season won't be satisfying. We want Will to get what he wants after all the shit he's been put through and some bad Y/N wattpad stand in, isn't what Will wants. He wants Mike, he always wanted Mike, and to not get what he wants at the end of the series would be criminal. it starts and ends with Will. From the start, mike was there, and for the end Mike will be there. Not some rando introduced during like the third episode. Also, is it just me or does Chance not feel very duffer brothers? The way people are saying Chance is introduced doesn't feel like them, it feels like a fanfic. That Wattpad burn wasn't just for fun, it was because of this. Chance feels like the set up to a highschool Byler fanfic. It's like "Oh a new kid comes into town and Will falls in love and that Makes Mike realize what he's been missing. But GASP! What if it's to late!"

That isn't the duffers modus operandi, they don't just put people into ST for like a one-shot gag. Each and every character got developed in some way, even Argyle to an extent. Not one was just a means to an end, Max, Eddie, Argyle, they all fulfilled a purpose and developed along the way. Chance doesn't work like that. One, the time crunch i mentioned early, no time to develop him. Two, without that time, he's a fucking cardboard cut out, he's a means to an end, he's a way to make Mike jealous and get Will a disney love interest, period. So for all these reasons, i don't think Chance is real. I can talk more in the comments and add on more if you want lmao.

[genderflu1dwh0r]

Are you stupid?

You can be racist and have POC friends, Jason is way worse than Billy any day. Jason isn't the one being abused by his father everyday, he isn't poor, he didn't get taken from his home and live with a step sibling that he didn't know that well.

Jason is a horrible person and got his friend to tackle Erica, then he held a gun at Lucas. You can't tell me that that isn't racist, you can't tell me that's worse than what Billy ever did. Jason said "I thought you were one of the good ones". That. Is. Racist.

Billy got his bad traits from his father. Billy got beat by his father. Billy was crying into the phone for his mom to come home. Billy had no support system. Steve was the only person that Billy bullied and tormented, and in my opinion, Steve is a worse character than Billy.

Steve threw slurs, while Billy got slurs thrown at him by his own father. Just because you don't care about abuse victims, doesn't mean you have to spread your hate.

I think that Billy just wanted Lucas to stop hanging around because if Neil found out, Billy would be the one getting beat. Neil would probably hurt Lucas way more than Billy could have ever done. Billy was protecting Max and himself, he was scared that Neil would find out. He did care and love Max, he just showed it in some confusing ways.

Also, the Duffer brothers are racist, they wanted Dacre to say the N word. Dacre protested and it ended up not happening. Billy saying the N word isn't canon, cause it didn't happen in the show. Stop always going to that excuse for him being a bad person. He never said any slur.

People say "if the actor wasn't hot, then people wouldn't have liked him" and I disagree. His character is very interesting. He has a backstory, he has trauma, he has an actual interesting plot unlike any other character. Dacre is also a very amazing actor, he was able to make Billy even more interesting.

Dacre has said that his art imitates his life. He put his own life into the character, he didn't have a great relationship with his dad, he has said this.

Max is a horrible person too, she drugged Billy with something that she didn't know was in, almost hit him with Steve's bat, screamed at him before leaving and stealing his car. Billy could have died on the floor, he was drugged and had no car. Tell me that that isn't abuse. Just because Billy grabbed her wrist ONE time, doesn't mean it's abuse.

Siblings fight all the time, it's just what happens. Especially how their family dynamics was. I and many others have fights with our siblings. You get over it in like a day. That doesn't make Billy a bad person. He did some really shitty things, yes. But that doesn't excuse all the hate he gets. He's a complex character, no other character is like him.

That's why he's my baby boy. I relate to him, I'm an abuse victim, I love knowing that I have a character to relate to. Stop blaming abuse victims on how they grew up, they can change. He could have changed if he didn't die. He could have, but nobody let him.

Nobody tried to help him. He didn't have a support system. The people who compare Jonathan to Billy are wild, cause Jonathan did have a support system, his mother did so much. Billy had nobody. His father beat him, hi stepmother did NOTHING to stop Neil, she just watched. She was clearly abused too, but she's the adult, she has to be there for Billy. She has to get Max away from all of this, which in season 4, she did. But she turned into an even worse mom.

Right here. He was trying to get help, he was trying to get the MF to get out. He wanted someone to help him. He kept fighting, and that's how he saved everyone on the day he died. He knew he was going to die, he was sobbing.

Try to think before talking bad against Billy.

Why do people say Vecna/Henry/Jason/Troy/James/Angela are better than Billy?

Vecna/Henry literally tried to kill children and the whole world. Billy wanted to have some fun and games, he would never go to prison for killing a child. He was never going to hit Mike, Lucas, Dustin, or Will.

Troy/James made Mike jump off of a fucking cliff while wanting to take Dustins teeth out. Tell me that isn't fucked. MIKE WOULD HAVE DIED IF EL WASN'T THERE!!

Jason held a fucking gun to Lucas's head and got Erica hurt. He sent a witch-hunt over Eddie and that ended up killing that poor boy. Literally, he was poor and Jason is a rich christian white boy. Tell me that isn't classist. Jason also did this to get information out of a kid.

Angela deserved the roller skate to the face for what she did to El. I would have done the same thing, El never deserved any of what she went through there.

Anyone going to object? Cause you can't, my points are spot on. Why aren't we gonna get mad at Jamie Campbell Bower over saying he relates to Vecna/Henry? If Dacre is bad for doing so, why can't we shame Jamie for the same thing?

I would count the MF taking over Billy like that as a reference of sexual assault. His body gets taken away from him, he is crying for help, he is scared and tried to tell someone. I've talked to SA survivors and they agree.

Anyway, I am pissed at Billy antis and I am just so done with them.

[ghostlycleric]

With all these leaks floating around I feel like it’s important to remember one thing:

There is no such thing as a trustworthy, credible leaker.

I don’t care if you get leaks from your own mom who works in production. I don’t care if you get leaks from the Duffers themselves. No matter who they’re from, you’re playing a game of whisper down the lane.

You have to remember that anyone can pretend to be a credible source. You have to remember that any real original sources still have their own internal biases and interpretations of a limited scope of the show. You have to remember that leaks lose their credibility the more mouths they pass through. You have to remember that even the most trustworthy people can lie. There will always be inevitable missing context, misinterpretation, and/or lies.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were people on set specifically told to spread fake information to leakers. There could also be specific pieces of true/half true information they allow to spread. Production is well aware that people are trying to pry into the contents of season 5.

All these leak accounts are looking for engagements, for noise around their posts. That’s why most leaks pertain to the mileven/byler love triangle. Any leak that claims mileven or byler endgame should honestly just be thrown to the side immediately. That leaker would have to know ALL of the context of every scene of them filmed and where they fit on a timeline to be able to say that. We can expect time travel/flashbacks/Vecna visions in s5, so they’d have to account for that too. A person with access to that knowledge has too much to lose to break their NDAs and tell random people on the internet spoilers.

The only things you can trust (once AI is ruled out) are pictures and videos. Even with those, you have to remember that they’re taken out of context. (There’s also actor location, which is sort of safe to trust since it has nothing to do with the contents of the show. Everything that comes from actor location is speculation.)

Some leaks will be right. Some almost right. Many will be wrong.

Have fun with the leaks, but be careful if you choose to use them to build expectations of season 5.

[xuul8]

Anyone else worried about the typical 80s tragic gay trope:

Will comes out to both El and Mike

El accepts Will for who he is

Mike accepts Will for who he is

Due to the limited amount of time left in the series, the writers kill of Mike resolving the love triangle without dealing with the uncomfortable feeling of Mike having to choose.

Mike sacrifices himself to save both El and Will. The ultimate Love sacrifice.

The media narrative right now from the Duffers and the actors is that they are not going to go GOT ending style, and that everyone will have a happy ending. However, a big curveball would be the death of Mike Wheeler. Something the audience would not necessarily see coming.

[hellinhawkins]

guys i experience byler doubt sometimes but not over this 💀

this person has barely any posts, and their “i saw it with my own eyes” means absolutely nothing if there’s not proof of it. getting mileven “leaks” that aren’t from the duffers or an actor/someone on set are the ones that we shouldn’t be trusting. how many filters do they go through? it’s like playing telephone. there was an actual point at the beginning but after going through all those people it’s totally screwed up at the end. and we don’t even know if their source is right or valid. so stop losing sleep over it 🤷‍♀️ and the same goes with dyersfilms. we all know that she hates byler, and that already makes her biased, so why are we trusting her?

take everything they say with a grain of salt. it doesn’t matter if she was right last time, because it’s plenty possible that her source left her and she just doesn’t want to admit it. she’s vague about all this anyway. saying that “mileven has scenes together” or whatever it is she’s saying is ridiculous, because whether you want to admit it or not, they are going to have scenes together. if byler is endgame, then she is still important to mike’s arc. and like i’ve seen people saying, it could be similar to stancy in s2. saying they say ily and that they kiss a lot doesn’t actually give you context.

it’s perfectly acceptable to believe the leaks but don’t stress too much about it 😭

[findafight]

you're so right. i will never understand the hold rockstar eddie has on ppl. his character immediately becomes insufferable if he's super famous and successful, esp in no upside down aus where he never experiences some form of ego death/being forced to reassess his own bullshit. not to mention he is just not someone who would become uber famous like he does not have the personality to either pull it off or handle it well if he miraculously did imo. steve really screams child star to me tho in an au. plus his entire character arc kind of speaks to him being able to handle fame (ie the fact that steve is a v reflective, adaptive character that was capable of actually changing and improving his behavior even w/o knowing about the upside down originally) and knowing/learning who he should be surrounding himself w. like i firmly believe steve could actually handle being famous in a way eddie could not.

I do enjoy rockstar eddie to a point? it depends I think. Rockstar/musician aus are popular in fandoms of all sorts an I like them sorta...hit or miss? haha.

But you're right that it's become...idk over saturated? And yeah absolutely Eddie's ego death and the shattering of the Munson Docterine is kind of pivotal for his character growth. Like I know the duffers don't think Eddie's problem is that he's stuck in highschool clique mode (They seem to think his flaw is that he's a coward...which is a different meta but his reactions are reasonable to the situations he's thrown in), because they only think "jocks" are the problem there, but he is. Him realizing that actually Steve is pretty cool is the stepping stone to him not hating jocks on principal, and broadening and nuancing his view of people outside his assumptions on who are "Proper" nerds. No- upside down aus, regardless of any other trope in them, often fall flat for me in that aspect, yet always make sure to remind us Steve was a bit of a stuck up dick in highschool (until the beginning of grade 11) and it's tiring to nt see Eddie allowed to be wrong and have that moment of self-betterment.

And yeah, I can maybe see eddie becoming semi-famous session musician (not a musician that is a session musician AND recording/performing artist by themself like Glen Campbell or Marvin Gaye) through a series of events like. Playing one of his hyper specific songs at a small gig, someone in desperate need of a guitarist is there and sees he is incredibly talented as a guitarist, asks him to help as a session musician in like two days, he plays, someone at the studio is like hey. wanna be on-call for us? and eddies like sure. ok. So sometimes he's on hit records but they aren't his. royalties are decent from the amount of work he's done. He's a pinch hitter guitarist, and he's good, so he gets a rep in the industry for that. He doesn't seem like the kind of person that could thrive in the high pressure, has major deadlines, environment that being a famous musician woudl be. I mean a lot of rockstars aren't either and it's not healthy for them? I can see Eddie crashing and burning, which I know a lot of fics cover but I also find it super depressing haha. He would probably be too standoffish and anti-authority and possibly refuse outside input for stuff, so he'd be off putting in the industry. not that musicians are always pleasant to work with but i think you get it.

Child star Steve would be so neat tbh. Look I love famous athlete Steve. but also the allure of him being famous young... Maybe as a little piano prodigy? (I love piano prodigy steve hehe) or an actor? like canon era he could have been a Mousketeer! Maybe he did a couple movies (what if he was in a few cult-classic scifi movies...that the party just so happen to love....but don't pay attention to the name of the child actor in...or maybe he used a stage name?) And then him fading away and living his life a little bit, before he decides to come back into the limelight?

I think that often we forget that Steve's "come-to-jesus" moment happened without the upside down. He talked shit, got hit, and then decided that he owed Jonathan (and Nancy) an apology. No one made him help clean up the grafitti! He had no idea there were monsters he just had a shit 48 hours where he went off the handle and then decided he had been an ass and to fix himself. When he was 16! He'd have made these changes to himself without the Upsidedown. Somehow the party knew his full name, and I love the hc that he won a major game/championship for Hawkins as a junior/sophomore so was a minor town celebrity. These lend to Steve being able to handle the pressure without too major a fallout or a long-term downward spiral of self destruction.

Except (okay operating as like a post-canon thing, because I love canon-divergent aus more than no-upside down aus but could still work?) now he's battle scarred and obviously not the rosy-cheeked boy he was when he was a tween. I'm thinking maybe he goes back in '89? give some time to heal from the upside down and Robin is moving for Uni, he's obviously going with her, so he figures acting would beat dead-end minimum wage jobs. Or at least spice things up in between shifts. Maybe he starts with theatre, and decides to see if there's some screen auditions he could do. Maybe he still has people in the industry who remember working with him (he's a good team player and a natural leader) and they help in slip back in. He does some bit parts, a few semi-recurring characters. Maybe he's even on an episode of Law and Order, and people go hey! That guy who's crying over his dead girlfriend (he's a red herring) is the kid from that 70's scifi movie!

Eventually someone actually offers him a role without him auditioning, and it's a bigger part, a side character but one with lines and even a semi decent arc in a b-list movie. he's a good fit. Charming and handsome, plus there are some intense scenes and on set Steve's proved himself capable of handling most things and supportive of coworkers (actors and crew alike.) Except there's a shirtless scene. While his scarring isn't extensive, it's definitely noticeable and not as easy to cover up as the faint discolouration around his neck. it's hard to explain, and usually movies want flawless skin. He tells them this. They still want him.

So he takes the role. And he has a blast on set. He loves working as a team, and even though days are long, he feels everything sort of...coming together. A feeling that this is what he wants to do. that he was right to get back into acting even though he started so young because of his parents.

He makes lasting friendships with nearly everyone he meets on the set. There's a few child actors, and he tries to give them tips and pointers, and be a role model or support for them. he knows what it's like to be little and surrounded by adults a lot of the time, and feeling pressure to be perfect. (They think he's actually the coolest, even if he's also kinda a doofus.) (there's probably a scene where he picks up on of the kids, and then the rest of them on set want piggy back rides too...)

It's considered his comeback role, despite being a few years after he actually came back. The pressures of fame come back again, but he's older now, and he's killed monsters. He has Robin beside him. A few paps don't scare him. Everything he has to hide (besides his bisexuality...and maybe his shitty relationship with his parents) is covered up by the government anyways. He gets bigger parts, and gets an even bigger rep for being a delightful (if viciously sarcastic) and supportive co-worker, especially if there's kids on set. (child stars of the nineties will look back on working with steve and think he was one of the few adults to get it. to understand how big your emotions are as a kid and how most grown ups [often even/especially their parents] didn't let them actually feel what the were feeling, instead wanting them to be acting all the time, instead of only in front of the camera. How he told them to never let anyone do anything they weren't comfortable with, no matter who it was. How he'd stick up for them, no matter what, and would ask how they were doing throughout shooting. They'll look back on being on set with Steve and remember how even if he called them little shits when they tried to prank him or were goofing off, he said it with a wink and a smile.)

I'd say, (please forgive me) he sort of becomes a (90's era) Tom Cruise kind of actor (before he went on oprah and went viral for jumping on the couch and then only did action movies after that) (also steve doesn't become the face of a cult) Like he does action flicks, but can definitely pull his weight as a dramatic actor. (I realize that I already have a movie star steve au but thats a different era I can have overlapping headcanons for the aus!!) His cute heart-shaped smile and amazing hair entrances audiences. He can make emphatic speeches about justice and also carry at least two children out of a burning building. He has range.

idk steve going from child actor to highschool athlete to monster killer to broke thespian to movie star again entices me!!!

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

There really is no logical fucking reason for people to hate Steve after everything he's done. After all of the beatings, both physical and emotional, he's taken? After he's stepped up to help so many people? He literally got tortured and you're still like nah, fuck that guy?? He accepted Robin during a time and in a conservative town where no one would. He adopted a bunch of kids like they were his own brothers and sisters. He literally could have complained and had every right to when Nancy Wheeler left him for another guy, but no, he didn't say shit and just stepped aside. He is constantly supportive of his best fucking friend in the whole world. And not to mention the fact that he gave up his friends for Nancy without even a thank you. The Duffers probably won't say, but with all the beatings he's taken, Steve definitely has some sort of permanent injury. He's either hard of hearing or partially deaf. He's a well beloved character who deserves it all. I mean, what more could you possibly want from him? He's apologized for what he said in season one, and he's more than made up for it. He's not a cunt or a dick. He serves cunt and dick. If you don't like him, it's not the character's fault or the actor's fault. . .honey, that's a you problem.