#the actors and duffers are right…

[ghostlycleric]

Will getting to be the kid he was before he went missing just for one moment. Holly potentially going missing after this race (just like Will did), tainting that happy memory with UD trauma too. Guys.

[brionysea]

wait holy shit does possessiongate mean finn wolfhard gets to act evil in season 5. is it gonna be like noah schnapp acting his ass off and stealing the show when will was possessed. i'm so down for this holy shit. the mike wheeler season. protagonist era coming full circle. external villainy that allows for internal exploration of the hidden character angst that we haven't been allowed to see before because the conflict hinges entirely on what's going on in his mind i'm SO down for this

[tsugarubecker]

The way this shot at the roller rink frames Mike & El under "Rental" while also drawing visual comparisons between Will and El: very similar shirt, similar height, similar haircut, and the actors have been instructed to hold the roller skates the same way while Mike holds his differently. The blocking practically demands that we the audience see El and Will as twins or somehow interchangeable. (Which, romantically, El is Will's stand-in, to Mike - the socially acceptable option that he can project upon because she began her social life as a mostly blank slate). This visual at the roller rink reminds me of the careful framing, now-famous among Bylers, of Mike in-the-closet while El kisses him. (She could easily back him in there and shut the door and he'd be like 🧍‍♂️🚪 ... lol.) The Duffers don't do everything right, but they (and others, Sean Levy amongst them I'm sure) are very skilled at building a narrative through blocking, background objects, lighting, and other visual and non-dialogue avenues.

[iadore]

Long post. For anyone having Byler doubt right now let me share a few things I know are true and point out what I believe is the logical conclusion. (Some may disagree) Bear with me. It will all add up and hopefully bring some comfort.

Facts:

Before season 4 David Harbour spoiled that Will had feelings for Mike in an interview.

After season 4 vol 1 Byler exploded on social media. The pairing gained a huge following. Byler won ship of the year. Noah despite having less screen time than his cast mates won the people’s choice award for best male actor. People were so desperate to prove byler endgame they paid for fake scripts which led to the ST writers account agreeing to share scenes people wanted to read. The van scene was in highest demand.

Simultaneously, there is a rise in homophobia in the fandom. We all remember getting bible verses in our ask boxes after posting GIFs of Mike’s soupy face when he looks at Will.

The Duffers shifted from saying they were “tuning out the noise” to taking in fan feedback.

David Harbour was told the ending of stranger things.

A year ago (2023) he said people need to accept Mike is in love with eleven. Once again spoiling an important part of the final season. (Personally this was the moment I gave up on Byler happening and my heart broke. I was so sad about what they turned Mike into and that they used Will’s love to fix a hetero relationship. They never explained mike’s sudden cruelty towards Will. I felt it wasn’t bad writing it was just lazy and somehow that was worse. I stepped back from ST and moved on to other more queer friendly stories. It seems silly since this is just a TV show but I think everyone who ships Byler can attest to how invested you can become in these boys and the remarkably selfless love Will gives to Mike.)

They start filming season 5. Throughout the year we get bts pics. I peeked at these and tried not to get my hopes up again. I told myself the fact there were so many byler pics and so few mileven pics didn’t mean anything. Byler is more popular. Sharing pictures of them will get more attention, so I dismissed this as people seeking clout.

The cast says over and over the Duffers can’t please everyone. I figured this was them trying to let the passionate Byler fandom down easy.

Millie hints her ending in the story is not typical.

Then… the cast reads the final script. They all officially know the ending. Every detail of it.

Noah does his first panel in a long time. In which he says “you could never tell of [mike and Will’s relationship] was something romantic or just a really special friendship.”

Several posts on social media show up as people say they won’t watch the final season because Noah’s words make them think Byler is clearly going to happen.

David Harbour said in a recent interview that the Duffers are in tune with the audience and what they want in terms of pairings. Look above for all of the “subtle” (lol) hints the fans have been giving that Byler should be endgame.

My personal conclusion/opinion/guess:

Mike and Will are going to end up together. It wasn’t the original plan but after seeing the fans point out all of the obvious signs and show their love for the relationship it was the logical choice. Anyone who sees all the “Byler proof” has to admit there are real signs of romance on both sides whether they were intentional or not. Going forward all of the hints we’ve picked up on will have meaning, even if they began as accidents.

David Harbour didn’t know about the byler part of the finale until the final table read. He spoiled things twice before and they didn’t trust him to not do it again. Which was justified because he literally spoiled byler endgame in the last interview I mentioned. Dude can’t keep quiet. I’m sure he has believed he was telling the truth every time.

Most of the cast probably didn’t know until the final table read. If the season is written the way I think will be: we watch Mike over several episodes realize he’s fallen out of love with Eleven and find the courage to admit he loves Will (because man it’s so obvious). The only people who would need to know are Finn, Noah and Millie if Mike and Will don’t officially end up together until the end of the season (doesn’t mean we won’t get a lot of great byler moments in the build up. They seem to be having a lot of one on one time in bts pics.)

Keeping Byler endgame top secret even from the cast makes sense to me because there are people (who I sincerely don’t get why they watch ST) who will refuse to watch the show if the final season is centered on a gay couple. Also, one of the most popular mainstream TV shows on the planet ending this way will be talked about for years and have a huge impact.

Sometimes doing what the fans are begging for isn’t cheap “fan service.” It’s having the common sense and humility listen to thousands of people who love your show and admit Mike’s character was going in the wrong direction.

For fans of Avatar the Last Airbender: creators Brian and Mike originally planned for Toph to be male. Their head writer Aaron Ehasz suggested making her a girl, which they initially resisted. Then they rolled all of the qualities of the tough guy they originally planned into a twelve year old girl. They later had a lot of boys come up to them saying Toph was their favorite character. They said “Sometimes it’s more satisfying to be wrong than to be right.”

Personal take: there’s no reason to be upset at the original plan because they made the right call in the end.

I know it’s important to some people for byler to be the plan all along. And maybe it was, I have no way of knowing. But all I personally need is for them to do right by Will and Mike as characters.

EDIT:

because people were asking here's the link to the recent David Harbour interview: https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/stranger-things-season-5-loose-ends-david-harbour

[electriccleric]

This year is going to be insane. Finally, the last season of the show we’ve been waiting forever for is gonna come out. I’m both extremely excited and nervous. I tend to usually expect the worst, but for some reason I just can’t help but be hopeful that things will finally work out for my favorite character Will Byers. After all the constant, nonstop suffering that boy has been through over the last 4 seasons, it’d be absolutely horrible if the show’s only gay character, who’s literally portrayed by a gay actor, doesn’t get to experience love and a relationship like all the straight characters. Will already believes he’s never going to have that. What kind of message would that send if Will’s right about that? An absolutely terrible message. This is a show that was meant for the outcasts, misfits, and marginalized. Reality often sucks for us, so at least let us have an escape by watching shows that give us some hope and happiness. Let us see a character that we can relate to and see ourselves in get something that they believe is never going to happen for them. There’s absolutely no reason to make Will in love with Mike if the feelings aren’t going to be reciprocated. Not for a show like this. If they actually just used Will’s love to “fix” Mlvn’s relationship, that’s wow… that’s just plain cruel. I wouldn’t be able to watch this show ever again. I don’t want to believe that the Duffers would write something so cruel and nonsensical. Let’s see if I’m downright stupid for having hope this year. Oh 2025, you’re gonna be a crazy rollercoaster, aren’t you?

[steveharrington]

major hornets nest moment here but i must speak my truth. its so fascinating to me how will byers was clearly written with the driving motivation and intention of making him a beloved fan favorite character and instead he falls so flat that, if you asked the average casual viewer of the show who doesn't engage in the fandom like, say, your coworker, the odds of him even being in their top five of favorite characters is pretty low.

will's disappearance kicks off the plot, singlehandedly. the first episode is literally called the vanishing of will byers. his name is shouted so much in the first season that most people would recognize the reference if you used the right cadence and desperation that winona ryder does. after not being featured much in season one, you'd think season two would've just like launched will/noah schnapp into stardom with how much more screentime he's given and how dramatic his plot is that season. but instead the fan favorites of season 2 were by and large el, hopper, dustin, steve, max, even bob who's barely there. that's not to say that there AREN'T will fans out there (and online i understand there are like entire armies dedicated to him/byler, but i'm talking about the average opinion of viewers as a whole, not just in fandom spaces) but think about all the stranger things merch you see in stores, the halloween costumes, the characters that appear in promotional materials when the show has partnerships with brands....will is so rarely featured. idk if any of yall ever got the chance to visit the stranger things pop up shop in any of its various locations, but there was such little mention of will in the stores theming or merchandise that it was almost funny. actually it WAS funny, to me, someone who does not care for him

i think the flop can be attributed to many things. one, noah schnapp is just not a very good actor and he doesn't have the same appeal in his performances that millie, sadie, caleb, gaten, priah, or finn do (although finn i've noticed is also kinda falling out of favor from majority audiences). one could argue that noah schnapp intentionally isn't given much to do, which is true and i'll circle back to that, but the decline in his acting between seasons 2 and 3 is truly a sight to behold. when he's not like tied up and screaming, he reallllllly struggles on the smaller scale performances compared to the other cast members his age. he doesn't really have the charm that gaten does or the humor that priah does or the depth that caleb does. (i don’t feel bad about saying this, btw, given noah schnapp’s behavior)

back to the vanishing of will byer's screen time. my beloved prettymuchit's eric striffler commented on how diminished will and mike's roles in the story have become in s4. "noah schnapp is below the grips on the call sheet" is my fav line, but he also makes an observation on finn's role that i think is soooo accurate. when mike and will are kneeling down next to the pizza dough freezer and watching el just kinda twitch while she fights vecna in her mind, eric and his co-host miles say "this is so embarrassing! finn's like, 'oh so gaten's fighting the monster? and i'm kneeling next to a tub at a pizza place? i used to be this show" and i think the same exact sentiment can be superimposed onto will

but i think this happened naturally, as the nature of the show is to shift its focus from character to character. not to mention the duffer brothers' obsession with tweaking their story to give audiences what they want. i've always held the belief that there isn't one main character of stranger things, rather a rotating circle of characters depending on the season you're watching. season one is mike, season two is hopper, season three is el, season four is max imo. again that's a little subjective and arguments could be made to swap those a little, but overall i think those characters stories and point of views take center stage during each of their respective seasons. by season 3, the duffers wanted to kick things up to a larger scale. the UD is no longer targeting just will, it's targeting the entire town. this works because a THIRD season in a row where this one kid specifically gets possessed would just be bonkers, so they kinda had to let him take a backseat. i'm not sure why they didn't let will be more involved in the mystery-solving portion of season 3....to this day that decision baffles me, but what's done is done and the will that everyone watched in season 3 literally just kinda follows everyone around and gets a small little slice of a plotline about wanting things to go back to normal, but alas

it like totally worked, though. though there are MANY complaints commonly made about season 3, i've never heard anyone offline complain that there wasn't enough will byers. i think the group in s3 that had the most success like, commercially, would be scoops troop and then a bit farther back i think most audiences enjoyed hopper/joyce/murray's dynamic. i think if there had been a huge outcry in the minimizing of will's role, the duffers would've backpedaled immediately. they aim to please. they can't even commit to killing of a main character out of fear that audiences will lose interest if we permanently lose hopper or max, so they just do some creative writing that allows them to milk the emotional consequence of those characters deaths without actually writing them off. if audiences on a large scale demanded that will be center stage, he would be. but they dont!

final point: i think will gets fucked over by the duffers obsession with romance. in season one, two of will's strongest dynamics are with his mom and brother. which like, yeah. theyre his immediately family and he is 12. but in seasons 2 and 3, jonathan spent all his screen time with nancy and from 2-4, joyce has spent all her screen time either with hopper or in the pursuit of finding hopper. these characters are written together as a package deal, typically. it was refreshing and unexpected to see jonathan get a whole season with a friend of his very own and his siblings, but they barely took advantage of that. jonathan and will get ummmm one (1) scene to talk about their emotions in a fucking 20 hour season. it's hard for will to be a main character when he rarely gets to interact with the people that make up the other half of his main dynamics.

as for byler, im of the belief that it will not be endgame because i just don't think they're going to break up mike and el at this point. i could be completely wrong and stand corrected, but im like 90% sure lol. i do think that will's s4 storyline resonated with a lot of people. even eric striffler! i think the issue is that the vastttt majority of people who watch this show above the age of like 15 do not feel invested about the romantic relationships between any of the kids. because why would they!!! theyre literally in middle school for 3/4 of the show. you would be hard pressed to find a vocal will stan online who doesn't also dedicate 90% of their engagement with the show to byler. which makes sense, because most if not all of will's scenes revolve around mike to some degree. but according to neilsen, the majority of stranger things audience is consistently in the 18-49 age range season by season. its more likely for adult audiences to identify with adults (or characters who are narratively treated like adults, like steve and nancy) than with any of the kids. esp when the kid in question, despite being written as the focal point of the show, has less relevant plotlines, less interaction with other characters, and an actor who just doesn't deliver on charm the way his fellow younger costars do

[imsodishy]

So, the season 2 Billy and Karen interaction is glaringly, textually, Karen having her porn-brain on and confusing real life for her fantasy.

Like that was the point. That was the joke, and it was a joke at Karen's expense. Karen was reading a dirty book and then she projected that directly onto the 17 year old boy who has strolled up to her door, and Billy is playing her to get information he needs (why a 17 year old boy defaults to transactional sexual behaviours with much older women is an entirely other post that I don't have time to get into right now).

Which is why the whole scenario feels like a really really terrible and awkward porn set up. Seriously, put a toolbelt on Billy and it's porno 101. Except it is, of course, not porn. So Billy just leaves and drops the act immediately, because he does not have porn-brain on. If anything, he has porn-actor-brain.

The problem is that the Duffers let their porn-brains take over and forgot that it was supposed to be a joke. So in season 3 we get yet another awful porn setup (cringe worthy dialogue and all), lifeguard flavour this time, except it's played straight (badum-tss) which just makes it even more awkward and stilted and uncomfortable.

The whole storyline was a bungled joke.

[bylrlve]

Warning! Potential spoilers for season five of Stranger Things!

Ross Duffer has posted more pictures - this one, of the four Party members stacking hands (from Top to Bottom: Dustin, Will, Lucas, Mike), has caused the most buzz. The blue sweater Mike is wearing, and Will’s red sleeve, aren’t totally dissimilar from the outfits the actors wore when we got our first glimpse of Will Byers last month:

I feel confident that Finn, anyway, is wearing the same thing, and that the farm scenes and this one are close together. It has been revealed this week that they were filming 504 a month ago, as the bottom-right monitor in this recent pic says Tues, Feb 13:

Lastly, the pic above, posted today, is of the Duffer brothers, Finn, and Maya at the radio station. Finn seems to be wearing the same grey sweatshirt that he wore for that El+Mike chat, and Maya appears to be wearing the same clothes as the ones in that birthday video on the farm set - a purple long-sleeved top under a big leather jacket.

Are Mike and Robin, and potentially also Will, going to be filming scenes together that chronologically occur near this El+Mike, weirdly platonic-seeming talk on the radio station roof? Hmm, wonder what they could possibly be talking about, if they are going to interact….

[gayofthefae]

I have been given the note in multiple projects to not paraphrase AT ALL because the word for word script is EXACTLY how the writer(s) want it.

And they let Finn improvise in the ily speech.

There's a reason improv is usually saved for comedy. Blank makes you crazy made sense to be open to improv for the tone of the scene. Dramatic improv is NOT common. Actor input maybe. And I haven't worked with the Duffers, every director is different. But dramatic improv in a monologue like that. "I love you, man" and "Erica help" also make sense. Exclamations. Points in dialogue. So dramatic isn't even what I mean. Improvising in a dramatic monologue that is SUPPOSEDLY the climax of a minimum 2, maximum 4 season plot depending on your interpretation.

The climactic MONOLOGUE of a FOUR SEASON PLOT. With improvisation.

And to not get the actor input in a side convo but get a TAKE of it.

If it mattered that much to them it would have been perfected already to the point where not word could be out of place. They would have "spent all day filming to get it perfect" - you know, like they're quoted saying they did for Will's monologue.

To do another take in the first place that changes something is to say "I'm not 100% positive we have it". For the climax of a 4 season arc that is a big monologue in the final episode between fan favorite characters, let alone romantic, and not have it EXACTLY how you want it going in?

They didn't need it to be perfect. They didn't want it to be perfect.

Writers love control, not inherently a bad thing, just true. They want their story told right. If they care deeply about a scene, they will perfect it. Suggestions from anyone will not be taken unless something already feels off/is not perfect. And if they care that deeply about such a climactic scene, they will not get that far without it being perfect.

But they didn't want it to be perfect. They didn't want the Will Byers express and affect exactly as needed, poetic and loving, received by the audience with the exact theme it's going for.

Oh, THAT'S the thing. THEY DO NOT CARE ENOUGH TO COMMUNICATE THIS TO THE AUDIENCE. FINN CAN IMPROVISE BECAUSE THE THEMES OF THIS SPEECH DO NOT MATTER. BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY, INTENTIONALLY, NOT. THE THEMES. OF THE SHOW.

I mean, the Duffers said themselves on twitter they don't believe in love at first sight.

I have been given the note to not even change a "the" to an "a". And they let Finn Wolfhard improvise in the ily speech.

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

What the duffers should do:

Release the s5 episodes weekly, from the crawl to sorcerer (4 episodes).

Then the next week not release the next episode, without announcing anything. Everyone freaks out, Netflix and the actors and everyone are radio silent. The next week, they release a new, unannounced episode. A filler episode. A musical episode. Nothing happens, no plot, set in a Hawkins with no Vecna or upside down, Barb somehow makes an appearance. They’re all singing.

Next week, also nothing. The week after that, normal release of the rest of the episodes (from shock jock to the right side up).

No one mentions the musical episode. Fans bring it up in interviews, all the cast and producers act very confused. No one acknowledges it. They deny its existence.

[evilbookworm]

It's really interesting to me that you suddenly have MiIevens in your Ask box trying to convince you of MiIeven endgame.

If supporting MiIeven makes them happy, they absolutely should continue to do that. But I think they're missing something incredibly vital here: the people they're trying to convince of MiIeven endgame are the people whose ship is getting regular content and reinforcement from official sources.

We've already received a lot of pictures of Byler in S5. It's been confirmed that they have a shared story line. Finn and Noah have a panel together next month. Noah has already stated that most of his scenes in S5 are with Finn. Noah is also the person who was on set the most for the filming of S5.

While this isn't definitive proof of Byler endgame, it's an extremely positive sign - especially considering the fact that MiIeven is not receiving any attention while Byler is being promoted.

It's just very interesting to see arguments like "Mike and El probably didn't break up in this one scene and a fan on Twitter said that they have a reunion scene in the epilogue" being weighed more heavily by MiIeven shippers than things like photos and information confirmed about the season by the writers and actors.

Very true, anon. If milevens are so confident in their ship, why are they constantly trying to convince us? We’re very happy with our ship and rarely do we change our minds.

On the other hand, the mileven asks felt very…generic. I feel like there was a byler pretending to be a mileven. Most of the mileven asks I see are bitter and angry over the fact we ship Byler, but this one just felt…off.

And yeah, Finn and Noah have been glued to the side all season. Milevens call it a simple coincidence. If it had been Finn and Millie, they would’ve been all over it. Honestly, them picking and choosing what evidence they want to believe is ridiculous. I simply choose not to listen to them. If they’re gonna be ridiculous, let them. And even if Mileven becomes endgame, we still hold the fact that we were queerbaited. Though, considering current events, the duffers doing that is very unlikely.

And you’re absolutely right, what the milevens believe in response to the leaks is stupid. They claim the actors can lie after the panel with Noah and Cara, and then they turn around and believe someone who doesn’t even work on the show!

[ghostlycleric]

With all these leaks floating around I feel like it’s important to remember one thing:

There is no such thing as a trustworthy, credible leaker.

I don’t care if you get leaks from your own mom who works in production. I don’t care if you get leaks from the Duffers themselves. No matter who they’re from, you’re playing a game of whisper down the lane.

You have to remember that anyone can pretend to be a credible source. You have to remember that any real original sources still have their own internal biases and interpretations of a limited scope of the show. You have to remember that leaks lose their credibility the more mouths they pass through. You have to remember that even the most trustworthy people can lie. There will always be inevitable missing context, misinterpretation, and/or lies.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were people on set specifically told to spread fake information to leakers. There could also be specific pieces of true/half true information they allow to spread. Production is well aware that people are trying to pry into the contents of season 5.

All these leak accounts are looking for engagements, for noise around their posts. That’s why most leaks pertain to the mileven/byler love triangle. Any leak that claims mileven or byler endgame should honestly just be thrown to the side immediately. That leaker would have to know ALL of the context of every scene of them filmed and where they fit on a timeline to be able to say that. We can expect time travel/flashbacks/Vecna visions in s5, so they’d have to account for that too. A person with access to that knowledge has too much to lose to break their NDAs and tell random people on the internet spoilers.

The only things you can trust (once AI is ruled out) are pictures and videos. Even with those, you have to remember that they’re taken out of context. (There’s also actor location, which is sort of safe to trust since it has nothing to do with the contents of the show. Everything that comes from actor location is speculation.)

Some leaks will be right. Some almost right. Many will be wrong.

Have fun with the leaks, but be careful if you choose to use them to build expectations of season 5.

[miamc]

recently i’ve come to the conclusion that the only reason a lot of people hate s4 v2 is because they genuinely think will lying about the painting actually put elmike in a better place when it clearly didn’t. i also know a lot of people view s4 mike as the duffer’s mishandling his character but i also don’t agree with that either but in the case of mike it’s kinda hard for me to explain 😭😭

it also gets the label of using will’s feelings to benefit a hetero ship but i honestly can’t come to a conclusion on that part until the last season is actually out tbh but where it stands now, sure it encouraged mike to ‘confess’ to el but she actively distance herself from him because of it.

s4 mike would only be a mishandling of his character if everything he said in the monologue was true, he has no inner struggles and was behaving strangely for no reason, and the painting lie strengthens his relationship with el.

now, we already know that he was lying in the monologue (you fell in love with her the moment you saw her? really mike?) and we know that the painting will be brought up again in season 5. we already saw that the monologue (which only happened because of will and is based on a lie) didn’t really fix anything since el is now ignoring mike. i don’t believe that the duffers would end their show after suddenly transforming what is arguably the main character from a thoughtful caring kid into a jerk without an explanation why. they know that the audience (and the actors and even the characters) has grown tired of mikes behaviour.

so yeah basically as of now, season 4 was not a mishandling of mikes character. in fact, for someone who is struggling with internalized homophobia, it makes perfect sense. of course we can’t be 100% certain until season 5 comes out but… yeah. it all seems to make sense right now.

[jazy3]

To kick off Stranger Things Day 2024 we got the episode titles for Season 5! Which are as follows:

The Crawl

The Vanishing of **Redacted**

The Turnbow Trap

Sorcerer

Shock Jock

Escape from Camazotz 

The Bridge

The Rightside Up

I feel like The Crawl has to be something to do with Vecna. Like maybe he's crawling out of somewhere or to something? For Chapter 2 I feel like the person vanishing is probably Holly Wheeler. They recast the actress playing her this season and she got a lot of screentime in the BTS Teaser Trailer. And in the clips they gave us you can see the lights flicking and her staring at something horrifying.

I think the Sorcerer is likely about Will the Wise and is going to be a Will focused episode. This might be where we see a lot of the flashbacks to his time in the Upside Down that they've been filming. I think Shock Jock is about Jimmy Fasthands Lee the guy we saw advertised on the WSQK Radio Station poster or it's got something to do with Dustin either working or volunteering at the radio station.

For Escape from Camazotz I have a few theories. It could be about our heroes escaping from the lab or Vecna’s lair maybe? Or it could be about them escaping from a military base? I think The Bridge refers to a bridge between worlds and will have something to do with crossing the boundary between the Upside Down and the Right Side Up.

And lastly, I love that they chose The Rightside Up as the final chaper title for the series! It's such a cool callback and it really brings everything full circle. I think this episode is going to be about the characters returning to Hawkins from the Upside Down and us seeing the end of their journey.

It's interesting that Chapters 4 - 6 don’t begin with word “the.” I didn't notice that until a friend pointed it out to me, but now I can't stop wondering what it means. I wonder if it has something to do with D&D gameplay or the sections that the story is broken up into like a beginning, middle, and end?

The caption for this video reads "In the fall of 1987, one last adventure begins. Stranger Things 5 coming 2025." which means there will be a 17 month time jump in Season 5 which will take us from the Spring of 1986 to the Fall of 1987. This is certainley a surprise given what the Duffer Brothers had previously said in interviews about Season 5 dovetailing off of Season 4 and how they did all of the set up in Season 4 so they could jump right into the action in Season 5 right from the get go.

I suspect they made this change because so much time has passed since filming wrapped on Season 4 and the younger actors have aged so significantly they could no longer pass for middle schoolers or freshman. Which is a shame! It also leaves a lot of questions to be answered. Like how did the town survive for 17 months with the Upside Down fully merging into Hawkins? Has Max been in a coma for 17 months? Did the older teens leave for college and university? I guess we'll find out in 2025!

[littleclosetofbyler]

I personally don’t really want Byler to hook up in season 5 purely because it doesn’t feel like something either Mike or Will would jump to doing immediately, especially not Will (though we may see a more confident side of him in season 5 that might want to especially with an “end of the world” vibe weighing on them), I could see Will wanting a more “ease into it” or “sweet romance first” type of relationship, and having both Mike and Will go from deep in the closet to immediately dtf doesn’t feel right.

But I understand why people want it especially since in season 5 they’ll be older than Nancy was in season 1 and the same age as Jonathan and Nancy in season 2, and in season 1 Nancy hooked up with Steve and in season 2 Nancy and Jonathan hooked up, so by having Byler hook up, it does equivocate them with the other older teen straight ships we’ve so far seen be romantically entangled. A lot of media, especially teen media (which ST isn’t, but the majority of the characters are young) feel the need to “purify” queer ships, so Byler not hooking up may come across as trying to do just that.

But again I personally don’t want them to hook up because I don’t feel like it makes sense right away immediately after a confession or kiss for Will and Mike specifically. If there was to be a season 6 then that’s when I’d want them to have their own implied hook up scene because I think both characters wouldn’t be able to go from repressed in the closet to immediately hooking up at the drop of a hat, they already have enough to process and come to terms with regarding their sexuality, sex itself just seems like it would be something to build up to together.

(I’m aroace though so maybe that’s affecting my personal opinion?)

Anyways I do think the Duffers will give us a kiss, I think they’ve set it up where it’ll be this incredible moment of joy and catharsis, and I don’t think the Duffers are cowards, I think they’ll push for this especially since it’s the final season. Fuck Netflix, this is the culmination of a slow burn friends to lovers romance and I think they’ll want to do it justice.

I got indeed a lot of hate for that post, and your message. Thanks for being civil.

I think the opposite, it's not about being pure, it's about it needing to be just a friends to lovers without going overboard with hypersexualization or fan service.

The thing with S1 and the teens is that we as GA at the time, never saw them as teens, because we didn't know them at the time, they were new and getting into show for it.

In S5 when the kids will be that age (20-24 actors, 16 characters) it's "okay" but it's also weird as hell because they entered the story at 11... i don't know about you but I would rather no see this kind of scene with anyone I would have meet at that age.

When I say a lot of you are young for this, I mean it in the sense that you haven't seen the fandom act; the same happened with Harry Potter in 2001 when we didn't even know how to stories would end, everyone was insane for it.

Then the infamous scene in that last part happened and... everyone was weirded out.

Media is a weird format, and a lot of fans are weird, doesn't matter which side we are from.

And people just leave a comment, I don't go well with asks, I don't even know how they work, i am here for the theories.

[pythoness94]

My opinion on "Chance

Okay, listen, let me ramble for a minute. I don't think Chance is real. To have "Chance" Makes no fucking sense. Sure, it gets Mike jealous, but Mike doesn't need to be jealous for Byler to get together. They can do that on their own time, but from a non-Byler shipping standpoint, it makes no sense too. Chance adds nothing to the plot. What would he do? Why would he care about Will? Why would Will give a fuck about him? Why would Will get over Mike in this season of all times? Why, why, why? and not enough time to answer it. and that's the most pressing issue, time. This is the final season, we can't have Eddie's, Argyle's, and Max's popping up now. Erica's friend (Which is who I think the younger male actor is, the one with the glasses.) can pass because he's probably a minor role. But a whole ass love interest for the main character in the FINAL season. There isn't a spot for him, the cast is to big, there is to many stories going at once, to many dots to connect, for this Chance character to fit in easily. He won't be developed right, he will take away precious time from other characters, and he won't be a satisfying end for Will.

That is the most important part, Will's character ending. From the start Will has been pushed down again, and again, and again. There is a reason that "Will Byers needs a break" is a character tag for ao3, we all want Will to be happy, and a half-baked character introduced THIS season won't be satisfying. We want Will to get what he wants after all the shit he's been put through and some bad Y/N wattpad stand in, isn't what Will wants. He wants Mike, he always wanted Mike, and to not get what he wants at the end of the series would be criminal. it starts and ends with Will. From the start, mike was there, and for the end Mike will be there. Not some rando introduced during like the third episode. Also, is it just me or does Chance not feel very duffer brothers? The way people are saying Chance is introduced doesn't feel like them, it feels like a fanfic. That Wattpad burn wasn't just for fun, it was because of this. Chance feels like the set up to a highschool Byler fanfic. It's like "Oh a new kid comes into town and Will falls in love and that Makes Mike realize what he's been missing. But GASP! What if it's to late!"

That isn't the duffers modus operandi, they don't just put people into ST for like a one-shot gag. Each and every character got developed in some way, even Argyle to an extent. Not one was just a means to an end, Max, Eddie, Argyle, they all fulfilled a purpose and developed along the way. Chance doesn't work like that. One, the time crunch i mentioned early, no time to develop him. Two, without that time, he's a fucking cardboard cut out, he's a means to an end, he's a way to make Mike jealous and get Will a disney love interest, period. So for all these reasons, i don't think Chance is real. I can talk more in the comments and add on more if you want lmao.