#the Jedi tried to be subtle about the abuse they committed because in spite of objectively being assholes they wanted to be seen as ‘nice’

[gch1995]

The Sith genozide shows that the Jedi are just as willing as the Sith to cross very morally questionable lines for their cause KOTOR lore has recently been deemed canon by Lucasfilm (January 2020), so the Jedi’s genocide of the Sith species is therefore canon now

I mean, even if an SW fan knows nothing about the KOTOR video game, which, admittedly, I’ve never played either, everything we see throughout all six movies of the OT and PT saga and TCW pretty much confirms that the old Republic and Jedi Order are willing to cross every reprehensible boundary that they consider to be moral horizon events/deeds in their enemies. The only difference is that they have better PR in the galaxy backed up by the Republic government superpower and put in more effort to be more subtle about their abuse of power than the Sith because they care about being seen as “above it all.”

While Anakin is darker and less empathetic as Darth Vader in his methods, even by comparison to the average Jedi of his time because he’s learned to care less about being seen as a ��nice” warrior “for the greater good” of the galaxy on the high of the dark side fueling his anger and his depression, you’ll also notice he’s actually more like the Jedi of his time in terms of how he compartmentalizes his guilt and justifies his crimes with that whole “greater good” and “necessary evil” excuse, rather than the typical chaotic evil Sith who is just evil for shits and giggles like Darth Maul. He falls into the lawful evil category instead.

The Jedi of the old Republic are only somewhat above him in terms of morality after he becomes Darth Vader because they still care about being seen as superficially “nice” to the general public of their recruits and Republic government, in spite of actually being just as ruthless as their enemies when they realize it’s easier to force people into submission to get their way from them “for the greater good” than taking the risk to do the right thing.

Anakin is still a Jedi of the old Order in mindset in the sense that he is convinced by both Sidious (a Sith who knows how the Jedi and Republic members think because he spent a lot of time with them) and himself that committing these crimes out of anger towards those who hurt him or his loved ones, a desire for freedom, fear of the unknown, fear of losing loved ones, and paranoia are serving worthy ends for protection of the Empire, Palpatine, his loved ones, himself, and the galaxy as Darth Vader, but he’s more brutal and less concerned about being subtle by playing nice in his application of that abuse of power over those he victimizes to do it on the high of the dark side, which is more Sith like.

However, in spite of being more subtle about it, I’d argue that most of the Jedi of the old Republic really weren’t that much better than most of their enemies in the Sith race. At least not after they defeated the Sith the first time around.,We spend the entirety of the prequels following the Jedi as they are basically plotting another genocide against the Sith race on their home planets. Yes, you can make a valid point that killing the Sith in self-defense when they attack first is necessary, but plotting to destroy their entire civilizations before and/or without offering them any sort of benefit of the doubt, any sort of opportunity to surrender peacefully, any sort of opportunity for rehabilitation, and any sort of warning ahead of time that they could get out of this if they stopped terrorizing the galaxy is not fair.

That is really fucked up, and we get no indication throughout the movies that the “peacekeeping” Jedi ever even considered any less violent and lethal alternatives to dealing with the Sith when their army attacked than immediate execution of them all

You’d think that at least Yoda would try to talk to the Republic Senate to find a more peaceful way to deal with the Sith. You’d think he’d consider trying to negotiate with them. He’s been alive the longest to have an idea of what the Jedi was like before the Sith. But no…He still thinks that mass murdering them is the answer.

It’s the same moral issue that U.S. government created when they decided to drop two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki Japan in WWII completely out of the blue in the 1940s, killing and/or injuring millions in the process, so they could force their army to surrender without offering them any sort of warning ahead of time or better options than this mass destruction of lives to the citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It’s the same moral issue that Palpatine and Dooku created when they plotted a genocide of the Jedi Order/Republic without any sort of warning.

Yeah, I know the Sith culture is deeply fucked up and violent on the whole, but they are still sentient beings. The children on their planets are still going to be innocents. They deserved to know they could have had an option to atone for their crimes, be rehabilitated, reform, or surrender peacefully. The innocent civilians kids didn’t deserve to have their lives taken from them as collateral damage of the Jedi’s elimination of the Sith.

For “peacekeepers,” the Jedi of the prequels before Luke don’t really seem to be too interested in taking the necessary risks and steps to create it by being brave enough to offer any sort of compassion, patience, or understanding for those who oppose them before going straight to murder as the answer. Anakin, Obi-Wan, and many of the other Jedi of the prequels develop a very similar mindset after being recruited, not just because their government is under the control of the Sith Lord in disguise, but because of how deeply dysfunctional the Jedi system was being run/implemented. They weren’t taught how to be normally functioning independent adults with a healthy sense of security, self-confidence, self-worth in their own personal agency and personal beliefs, how to have healthy relationships, or how to think critically. They were actively cut off, discouraged, and forbidden from having any sort of personal independence, personal hobbies, interests, relationships, occupations, or lives of their own outside of the Jedi Order because Yoda was too afraid of losing control over them and potentially facing the dark side by allowing them normal freedoms, relationships, and agency.

Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and many of the other Jedi of the prequels were taught to use an exceedingly hostile and paranoid black-and-white us vs them mentality in the Republic/Jedi Order and the Empire/Sith in regards to enemies, outsiders, and potential threats to the “greater good” of the causes they served, the safety of themselves or those they were loyal to within that cause, and their critical thinking skills, open-mindedness, and self-awareness diminished as a result.

When you can’t fathom the possibility of even trying to take the risk to use peaceful non-violent alternatives to dealing with enemies by allowing them the chance to a fair trial, hearing them out, giving them a chance to surrender, giving them a chance to atone, then that’s a serious problem that often ends up perpetuating a cycle of fear-driven systematic abuse, crime, distrust, resentment, and oppression more than necessary, rather than breaking it. You can’t really break a cycle of systematic abuse, crime, distrust, and oppression by enabling and perpetuating it whenever it’s safer than taking a risk to stand up for what’s right, especially when you go around calling yourself a “peacekeeper.”

That was Anakin’s, Obi-Wan’s, Yoda’s, Qui Gonn’s, and the majority of the rest of prequel era Jedi Order’s biggest personal moral failing. They became so afraid of facing conflict and opposition under these corrupt cult-like institutions and governments under these shitty circumstances that they ended up becoming willing enablers and perpetrators of the very same crimes they sought to destroy to fit in under pressure to try to remain safe at all costs because it was easier than taking a risk to be vulnerable that was required to ultimately be able to do better.

No, it’s not just their faults they ended up growing up to be that way. The Jedi Order and Sidious were abusive, manipulative, and isolating systems that seriously compromised their agency to be able to feel reasonably safe doing better through finding better escape and healthy support. The government they worked for was corrupt. Anakin seemed to develop C-PTSD, BPD, ADHD, and substance abuse symptoms that never got properly treated. The Sith army definitely did strike against the Jedi first a millenia ago, and most of them were very corrupt. However, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and the other Jedi of the old Republic did still have enough sense to be able to understand what was objectively right versus wrong. They had consciences, and not every crime they committed were things they were coerced into doing by the Republic, Sidious, and the Jedi Council. They developed personally selfish and vindictive streaks, too. They eventually did stop trying after some time, so I can’t just pretend they’re wholly innocent either.

The biggest take away from Star Wars OT and PT sagas is how easy it can be for the fear under systematic abuse, crime, enemies, warfare, and oppression to destroy both yourself and others around you when you don’t deal with it healthily by taking the risk to be emotionally vulnerable and open, and instead continue the cycle of abusing power to try to deny, take control of, and/or eliminate those people and/or things that cause you fear instead.

If you guys want to comment, you can.

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[clairen45]

The Bridge Trope in Star Wars and what it may mean for IX

Besides being iconic markers in our daily lives, bridges are an awesome symbol:

transition and a boundary between sky and earth, life and death, real and imaginary, mortal and immortal,  good and evil, civilization and the wilderness,rich and poor, old and new

marking both a connection and a separation through time and space, between people, between places

Which is why, they are so easily used in stories as a decisive step in a hero’s journey, the Rubicon moment, the ultimate test, when through wit, trick, or strength, a bridgekeeper must be defeated. Let’s say it is a hero’s journey and fairy tale classic.

Add to that the fact that bridges are quite the war movie cliché, they are obvious landmarks to destroy, and vital targets to control. Destroying a bridge often means isolating and weakening the enemy, depriving it from communication and food, water, or medical supplies.

So, of course, we get to meet the bridge trope again and again in Star Wars. And, more often than not, the bridges we get are bridges of Death. From the Phantom Menace’s Duel of the Fates

To Han’s death in The Force Awakens.

It is actually fitting to say that both scenes constitute an interesting framing for the Skywalker saga. Duel of the Fates is a very apt name for the beginning of the saga. Remember that Anakin’s name is etymologically “Ananke”, that is to say Fate, Destiny. Anakin’s fate is in the balance there, and the end result of who gets to become his Master and teaching him about the Force is key. Had Qui Gon lived, possibly, there would not have been any Vader. As for, Han’s death in TFA, the constant play of words between sun and son, and the not so subtle imagery of light and darkness, is supposedly all about Kylo’s fate. If Qui Gon’s death is possibly the first step towards the fate that will turn sweet lovable Anakin munchkin into big bad Vader, Han’s death is the counterpart of this scene, thus the first step towards big bad Kylo turning eventually into lovable Ben Solo. And just as it took three movies to realize the Fate of Anakin, it will take three movies to realize the Fate of Ben Solo. But I digress. Or not.

Because both stories, which interact like mirror images of each other, are perfectly hinged around two other crucial bridge scenes. One in ESB. And one in ROTJ. You know what I’m talking about, right?

And these two are also counterparts. ESB’s bridge scene is Luke’s symbolic death scene: learning the truth about his father, and losing his hand, he would rather choose death and commit suicide. ROTJ’s bridge scene is Vader’s death and Anakin’s redemption, with Luke accepting the truth, Vader losing a hand, and choosing to save his son’s life. Even the placement of the actors emphasize this idea of mirror image. So Luke gets his Troll Bridge twice: he fails the test the first one, falling to the chasm and falling apart, and succeeds the second time around. Doing what? Throwing away his saber. Choosing love. Refusing to kill.

But I would also like to stress out that, from a certain point of view, Luke is not the only one who gets tested there on the Troll Bridge. Anakin, just like his son, also fails the first test and passes the second. In ESB, he has little to no love to offer and tempt Luke to his side: he offers the vague promises of the power of the dark side and ruling the galaxy together (which didn’t work with Padmé either). In effect, he is selfish, abusive, scarring his son physically and psychologically, and does not seem too distressed when Luke lets go and falls “presumably” to his death. In ROTJ, he chooses the losing side, standing against the Emperor to save his son’s life, which he knows, will eventually cost him his life. Thus, he is showing empathy and remorse, and saves Luke through a selfless act of love.

Yep, that is what the OT is about.

And, arguably, these two scenes constitute the very axis around which the other two trilogies are built. Hence my first “digression”.

It is also very interesting to note that in the four cases exemplified so far, the “bridges” in question are seemingly “reactor cores”, excuse my tech ignorance. These scenes are never about bridges out in the open, over a river, connecting two shores. They are always played out over a chasm, surrounded with energy fields, in dark environments with a possible fall into a bottomless abyss... Two possible interpretations:

because they are battle of the brains, moral battle of good versus evil within oneself. Inner battles. Think grey cells, cerebellum connections, as a map for these duels.

because they are battle of the heart. Issues of love. “core”

Honestly, I think they both go together!

Symbolically, they are your typical “choose the right path” bridges, the life and death, good vs evil bridges.

The many bridges of Luke

If you actually consider the OT, Luke’s journey is very much rhythmed by a series of bridges. Which might seem ironic for a boy coming from a desert planet with no water, and thus, no use or concept for bridges (besides rocky arch formation such as we see during the pod race in PM). But consider the last name GL decided to give him: SKYWALKER. That was not the orginial name he had chosen, right, since in first drafts Luke was called “Starkiller”. Consider then what a huge difference it makes when you move from a very martial moniker “Star/killer”, which is all about destroying life and light (and Luke actually comes from “light” etymologically speaking) to choose something that means: the one that walks the skies. Not flies. WALKS. And if you walk the skies, chances are you are walking on a bridge of some kind (like mythological rainbow bridges). Crossing a bridge is very much akin to walking the sky: you are suspended between heaven and earth. So even the name GL chose for his star family is all about “walking” on bridges.

The “bridge” moment in ANH is rather brief, but quite interesting. It is actually the “NO BRIDGE” moment, the one when Luke and the Princess find themselves locked out with no crossing, and stormtroopers shooting at them. This moment:

What does it reveal about Luke? His ingenuity, since he uses his farmboy utility belt to cross the bridge, but then also his instincts, the fact that he can rely on his roots (what he learned as a farmboy), his audacity, his ability to take a leap of faith (something that will play out later in his relationship with his father). But it also sets him apart as a different kind of hero. The NOT MY LUKE people should really pay attention to these details. Sure, he plays the hero, saves the damsel and everything, but in this scene they work together, she also gets to protect them, he trusts her with defending them, she is the one giving him a kiss for luck. This is very positive masculinity. Heroic, but not pushy. Manly, but respectful of women. Physical but also using his brain. Luke is such a dear.

In ESB, the big bridge moment is the one I already referred to. The moment of truth. Having these two characters on a bridge is very clever of course. It’s all about meeting in the middle. A bridge is by essence a balancing act. Can they meet halfway or will they cut all connections? Can opposites reconcile? Will they connect/reconnect? What better way to talk about human emotion and love than put them on a bridge, the very metaphor for communication, leap of faith, and the possible danger of reaching out to the other with your feelings?

But ROTJ goes even further with the bridge metaphor. Going with this when Luke reveals the truth to Leia...

To carry on with Leia and Han, where Han shows more of his emotions ans proves how supportive and selfless he can be when he is just there to comfort her in the end, putting away his jealousy and self-doubts:

Followed with this, for Luke and Vader’s first meeting since ESB when Luke calls him “father” for the first time and tries to bring him back:

To conclude with the bridge sequence already mentioned when Vader chooses to be Anakin all over again.

WOW.

And where does it all take Luke? To a water planet with NO bridges. Seriously. When VII opens, Luke has chosen to sever, metaphorically speaking, all the links to others. As if he had chosen to destroy every bridge that could connect him to Leia and the rest of the world. And when we see him going about the island, there are no bridges. He jumps from one cliff to the other. Interesting thing is on The Art of The Last Jedi you get to see some of the art concepts that they had for Ahch-To that included a lot of variation on bridges:

But eventually they went for the very design that removed any bridge from the place that Luke has chosen to spend the remaining days of his life until his death. Which is, I must say, a very good choice. He disconnected himself from the Force, he disconnected from people he loved not telling them where he hid, it made absolutely no sense to put him on a place that was covered with bridges. The bridges were meant to be burned.

That is... until one very last moment. Which is the perfect segway into my next chapter... Until the end. When he projects himself for one final face-off with his nephew. And that is a big bridge metaphor about reaching out across the stars. And we know that when Luke is on a bridge with someone he loves, this doesn’t mean harm or spite or revenge. Or even fighting. Bridges in SW are not so much about fancy duels as they are about love. Yep, even in PM. There is the love that Obi-Wan (yes, even a Jedi) feels for his master, and the need to extend and take care of a little boy that is all alone in this galaxy. A leap of faith. Love. Which means...

The ST is about crossing that bridge

Yes, there are bridges in the ST. And how Kylo and Rey are going to be able to cross over and meet each other. Let me explain. This happens at the end of VII:

Visually, it tells us that there seems to be no possible bridge between the two characters. Yet, the whole point is that they keep on looking towards each other. The bridge,aka the connection, is their eyes (mirrors of the soul yadiyada). And sure enough, comes VIII, and the bridge is there. WTF, will you say? What bridge are you raving about. Well... that one...

The Force bond.

And how do I presume calling this a bridge? Because...

It was I who bridged your minds

Interesting choice of words. But there it is. Put it as plainly and simply as you possibly can. The Force bond is a bridge, a spiritual bridge between Kylo and Rey. That’s quite something, right?

Which means that, there may be some physical crossing of some kind in IX. Now, I don’t want to be presumptuous and declare for sure, but it would seem like a logical concept. And on Vic Mahoney’s moodboard...on the left, some of the pictures seem very bridgelike...

And that’s also where I want to bring in that clever little TV kid show called Star Wars Rebels.

Take it to the Bridge

So Star Wars Rebels came before the release of TFA, in 2014, merely two years after Disney bought LF and therefore all the rights to Star Wars. Let’s look at what they did there and let’s wonder why. I don’t think that it was a random move on their part. They could, after all, have imagined something that took place right before TFA, or come up with the many adventures of Luke and the gang, or even spend more time on the Clone Wars, or go way back in the Old Republic. But no 14 years after ROTS, 5 years before ANH, is the time they chose. And came up with a totally new gang we had never heard of. Except that... well... the new gang got to meet A LOT of familiar faces. From all over the place: Hondo, Rex, Ahsoka, Vader, Leia, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul, Yoda, Lando, C3P0 and R2, Palpatine, just to name a few... The point is that they get to meet people from the PT AND people from the OT. Thus (you know where this is going) bridging story lines. And, surprise surprise, what special name did they choose for their hero? Ezra Bridger. Gosh, that’s not even subtle, there. And by the way, what does Ezra mean? Helper. So Ezra helps bridging... aka, Star Wars Rebels helps bridging, connecting, if you will storylines. Towards a logical conclusion. And what is this conclusion, pray? The ST of course. And who stands on the bridge? Kylo and Rey.

Even better, what particular storyline did they preciously choose to keep to conclude this new Star Wars story:

the return of the Mortis Arc, balance

the World between worlds, and its very specific bridges that cross through time and space, and the possibility to alter the past/future, plus bringing back loved ones

looking for knowledge (last time I checked it was not so much about knowledge in the PT and OT). But Ezra’s story is all about knowledge.

love and sacrifice, saving the people you love (Ahsoka, Kanan, Ezra), and, come on, Hera and Kanan’s baby (by the way, Kanan is very reminiscent of Canaan, the Promised Land, so keep the prophetic aspect in mind)

Again, how will it play out in IX? I have some ideas but I really can’t tell whether it will show up or not. There have been rumors about an artifact (very SW Rebels) that would require both Kylo and Rey’s powers. So knowledge. So possibly with notions of Mortis implied in there (balance). Love, sacrifice, we have discussed a lot. Remain the bridges. I can totally envision an important scene taking place on a bridge, with Kylo and Rey embracing, or running to each other, or holding hands while everything else around them crumbles. I can also imagine a bridge playing out with an intimate scene as we got in ROTJ in the Ewok village, something akin to the terrace where Anakin and Padmé first kiss on Naboo and finally get married. Again, the film has already been shot. So too late for that already and there’s a fat chance that it won’t even happen. But since we got a bridge of death in VII with Han’s death, we need a bridge of light.

Which might just turn out to be the symbolic bridge of Rey and Kylo coming together and finally uniting the light and the dark sides...

Leaving Simon and Garfunkel’s Bridge Over Troubled Water behind as a great Reylo vibe. Seriously. Reylo vibe, guys!!!!

When you're weary, feeling small When tears are in your eyes, I'll dry them all I'm on your side, oh, when times get rough And friends just can't be found Like a bridge over troubled water I will lay me down

When you're down and out When you're on the street When evening falls so hard I will comfort you I'll take your part, oh, when darkness comes And pain is all around Like a bridge over troubled water I will lay me down