#that there was a power imbalance between him and betty

[sicklyseraphnsuch]

tw: manipulation; dark; angst

(If you only want Simon happy and comfy, this is NOT the ficlet for you)

(Inspired by Twitter, which is a warning in and of itself)

Simon holds the papers - the evidence - the proberbial smoking gun - in his shaking, sweaty hands. Despite the thick walls of ice on all sides, even with his fingers numb and blue, heat radiates off his skin as if he spent a whole day baking under a midwestern sun. Rage boils his blood, pushing his pulse to fill every artery and capillary with his fury. His intellect could find a thousand cutting words - formulate a piercing and accurate accusation - but he knows if he opens his mouth, only a howling, senseless screech would pour out.

So he clamps his jaw shut, bites his tongue till he tastes blood, and he stares at the Winter King.

"As if you could do any better," his so-called counterpart - alternate self - fellow Petrikov says blithely with a shrug. With a shrug!

"So you admit it!" Fionna gasps. "Winter King, how could you?"

"Very easily," Winter King replies, crossing his arms. There isn't a hint of guilt. "Fionna, darling -"

"Don't call me that!" Fionna breathes heavy and thick, trembling with the effort to keep her tears at bay. "You - You - You lied to us! I h-hurt all those - all those -" Her voice breaks as a sob squirms loose.

Seeing her sister's tears, Cake lunges for the Winter King, claws out. "You've crossed the line, blue boy! You've crossed all the lines!"

Winter King scoffs and with a casual wave of his hand, freezes Cake mid-air. "Cool it, kitty. I'm still King around here."

"CAKE!" Fionna cries out. "You monster!"

"Fionna, don't!" Simon yells a second too late.

Fionna is already charging at the Winter King, one fist cocked back, ready to flatten him. And to her surprise - Simon's horror, the punch lands against the Winter King's cheek. The force tilts the Crown on Winter King's head but he remains standing, completely unmoved.

"Oh fuck you," Fionna snarls.

"Manners, young lady!" Winter King gasps before snapping his fingers.

Frost bursts over Fionna's knuckles right at the point of contact with Winter King's face. It explodes over Fionna's hand, up her arm, and despite her desperate attempts to pull away, the frost slides over her shoulder, down her torso, and up her neck. Before her face is fully covered, Fionna hacks a mouthful of spit at Winter King. Fortunately, she freezes completely before she could watch her glob of spit turn into a sphere of ice, falling to the floor with a quiet tink.

Winter King, supremely unbothered, carefully straightens his Crown.

Simon swallows what feels like a mouthful of dust, as he cracks open his lips. "How... How could you? There's no way... You can't be me... I -"

Winter King turns to him like a bird of prey finding a mouse. "You would never? Is that so? Are you sure? Think carefully."

Simon squares his shoulders. "Even as Ice King, I never went so far -"

"Not as Ice King, no." Winter King adopts a sneer, stepping closer and closer. "But I have your memories. And with the clarity afforded by my lack of madness, I can say for certain, that you have done as I have done when we were Simon Petrikov."

Simon forcefully shakes his head. "You're wrong! You haven't lost your madness at all!"

"And you can't even see your madness, excusing yourself by calling it love. A rose by another name would still prick the careless finger. You hurt her the same way I hurt precious Princess Bonnibel. But at least, I am aware of it, and you are not."

"What are you talking about? I could never hurt Betty!"

"You also couldn't spare two thoughts for her. She gave up everything for you."

"I didn't ask for her to sacrifice herself! If I could stay as Ice King and spare her the pain, I would!"

Winter King stands before Simon, the distance between them barely the length of a finger. Simon holds his ground even as the Winter King towers over him.

"Fool. She was long gone before then, tormented by her madness that you never noticed. Always, she followed your choice, always she stayed by your side! So obsessed, so enraptured. And you, utterly blind to all the ways you groomed her to stay."

"She wanted to stay with me! She loved me!"

Winter King laughs, sharp and mean, as he traces the curve of Simon's chin with a bent finger. Simon slaps away his touch. Winter King rolls his eyes, and snaps his hand forward, grabbing hold of Simon's throat. His nails now tipped with icicle claws that gently pierce Simon's soft skin.

"Yes, I admit. Therein lies the difference. Bonnie hates me. Betty loves you. Yet they both ended up cursed. I intended to, you did not, but what does intent matter when they both suffer? And continue to suffer!"

Simon desperately tries to pull away but Winter King holds on tight. He pushes forward until that long nose presses flat against Simon's, until Simon has no choice but to share his breath with the Winter King.

"How could I do this to Bonnie?" Winter King coos. "How could you do that to Betty? How could you be so selfish? So self centered? How could you be so different from me?"

"That's... That's not true... It can't be..."

"You drove her insane! That's what we do, Simon! That's who we are!"

"Shut up!" Simon lashes out, his fist swinging wide. His knuckles graze against the Crown's gems, knocking it clean off the Winter King's head.

"Hey!" Winter King shouts, tearing away from Simon to chase after his Crown.

Simon finds his feet and scrambles away, running out of the room - running down the hall - running, running, running.

"Flee all you want, Simon!" Winter King's voice echoes off the ice walls, dogging Simon's every step. "The truth always catches up!"

Simon grits his teeth, pushing himself to run faster - further - faster. Winter King was wrong. He was crazy. He had no idea how Betty and him were really like. Right? Right?!

[bluejay757]

Lets talk about Simon and Betty

spoilers for episode 8

So a lot of people are throwing around some strong accusations about their relationship, some I can see where they're coming from, and a lot are really reaching.

As for the ones that I think are reaching, a lot of people are saying that Simon and Betty were a professor/student dynamic, except they weren't. Simon wasn't teaching a class he was a guest lecturer, and Betty, having read his work was interested. She was excited to meet him because she liked his research. Simon was constantly mocked in his field, if you actually read the newspaper clippings from "I remember you" you'll see that even after he found the enchiridion, he was made fun of. People were literally laughing at him and throwing things at him while he was giving his lecture. Betty likely was mocked too, it makes sense she was so excited to meet him, because this was her chance to meet one of the few people that actually shared her interest. She did not yet have a crush on him at that point in time.

I think after she got to know Simon on a personal level her fascination of him changed, as she no longer viewed him as a "celebrity" (I use that term loosely for a lack of a better word, I can't imagine his books sold that many copies, what with him being a laughing stock and him being genuinely surprised that Betty had read his work), but rather a colleague and equal. She even said that after their trip together she had grown to admire him as a person, so it's not like she had any kind of feelings for him prior to that. Now that's not to say her feelings towards him were completely normal, but there definitely wasn't a power imbalance between them.

A lot of people are saying Simon was selfish for making her stay behind, but he didn't make her. She chose to stay behind. She could have still gone on that trip, and continued to write to him and talk to him on the phone, but she chose to stay with him and go on different adventures. You're forgetting that Simon and Betty went on expeditions together all the time, it's not like she gave up her career for him, that would be a whole different story, but she made the decision to continue working in her field alongside him.

Also Simon couldn't have gone on that trip if he did want to because he wasn't offered to go, who ever it was that gave Betty that opportunity, wasn't anticipating on her bringing a friend, he also didn't have anything with him but like his wallet and keys you can't seriously expect him to go to another country with no luggage, no plane ticket, no money, no nothing. A whole part of Fionna's character arc is realizing that life's not a fairy tale, she was expecting something out of a romance novel and got a story straight from reality. Realistically the two options were for Betty to stay or to leave Simon. And I don't think her giving up her trip to Australia was a sacrifice, because there were other trips and opportunities after that, she traded that one trip for an entire lifetime of them, (or at least it would have been if war didn't break out)

And if you're gonna call Betty impulsive, call her impulsive because she went on a trip around the world with a man she had never met, not because she walked through a creek barefoot lmfao.

I'm not saying that Simon and Betty were perfect but there are other reasons to criticize them.

As for the actual problems with there relationship, none of them are their fault. Betty going literally crazy trying to bring Simon back was because of Magic Man and Patience fucking with her brain, a human being cannot handle the amount of magic she was given and it drove her to insanity. And Simon now, with risking everything to bring her back, she's literally fused with a chaos god and is going to live for eternity in that state, did you ever think maybe he wants to get her out of that for her sake? That maybe he wants closure and to say goodbye? Since he never got that chance. No it's not healthy for Simon to drive himself as far as he did to bring her back, but Jesus fucking Christ can you blame him for not wanting his fiance to suffer for literal eternity? They don't need to break up, they need therapy. I don't think their relationship pre-mushroom war was unhealthy, and I don't think it ever would have been unhealthy without Betty becoming Magic Betty.

Their relationship flaws are more so their own individual flaws that have bled into their relationship as opposed to ones caused by the relationship itself, that's an important distinction you have to see.

[kerakitty]

The Finale Didn't Blame Simon

I see a lot of people complaining about how the FaC finale "blamed" Simon for the problems in his and Betty's relationship, and I really don't get where this criticism is coming from. The finale doesn't blame Simon for Betty's obsessive self-sacrificing tendencies. Nor does the finale claim that the responsibility to recognize and address those tendencies was solely on him. The show acknowledges that multiple factors contributed to a power imbalance between him and Betty and that the imbalance was in his favor. The finale asserts that this fact put more of an onus on Simon to address these issues, but it never claims that the onus is solely on him.

Yes, FaC focuses more on Simon's role in Petrigrof's flaws, but that's because we already explored Betty's role (quite thoroughly) in AT. Betty's responsibility for her obsessive behavior was already called out in episodes like "You Forgot Your Floaties" and "Temple of Mars". FaC only had 10 episodes to tell its story. Why spend precious time retreading Betty's revelation when Simon is still waiting on his?

[genericpuff]

Can you give us your thoughts on Big Ethel Energy? I haven’t seen anything glaringly wrong with it tbh, but I might not be educated on the topics the comic brings up.

TBF I haven't read it as extensively as LO (though that's a loaded comparison because I definitely put WAY more into analyzing LO than most webtoons LMAO) but my biggest issue with BEE is just like... the main cast (primarily made up of women) are so manipulative and toxic all the time. A lot of the comic's narrative feels very preachy while not actually practicing that empathy, very similarly to LO in which characters will just yeet out Therapy Speak or whatever have you and then use it to justify their shitty actions, rather than actually learn from them/correct them/etc.

One big example I can think of that alerted me to its issues (as many others) was the scene where Betty tears into her boss (Seth):

And he totally has a point, he acknowledges that he made a misstep but I don't think the irony of her calling him a "judgmental jerk" has been lost here because she's literally basing her judgments of him off instant reactions (and hoo boy, do a lot of the characters in this comic do that, but we'll get into that shortly).

But then there's complete tonal whiplash where they go upstairs to the roof where he reveals that he's changed his decision about working with Veronica (thus correcting the misstep that Betty was calling him out on) and Betty is just SO overjoyed by this that she-

Like, this is her boss, for starters, who she's kissing (without his consent or even any signalling that he wanted to kiss her in that moment) literally MOMENTS after she called him a "judgmental jerk". And then when he rejects her because there would be a power imbalance in their relationship that he's not comfortable with (which is a VERY reasonable boundary to set), she just ?? Goes right back to being mad at him and the story paints it as if he's at fault ??

Like they actually had the opportunity to showcase a story in which a power imbalance in the workplace ISN'T romanticized (like it is in so many webtoons like LO and Let's Play) and instead it made the boss out to be the bad guy for rejecting the advances of a female lead. And so many of the female characters in the story are like this, it's like they're trying so hard to be "strong independent women" but then they just come across as manipulative and mean all the time. Like sorry, but you can't just use "progressive language" like "mansplaining" to make your characters seem smart, Betty is being a huge asshole here over something SHE caused. It's very "woman good, man bad" with no nuance or consideration for the actions of either party.

And of course, they follow it up with Betty actually realizing she wasn't in the right, only for Veronica to come in and be like "nah you're allowed to hate who you hate" even though that kind of advice totally isn't constructive here when Seth was being completely reasonable. So Betty is literally just flip-flopping between actually caring about Seth and his boundaries to hating on him for having them at all.

Like, this is so miserable to read. Don't get me wrong, Veronica is traditionally a very "fuck you, I do what I want" character, but it just feels so gross when we know what Betty did was wrong and Betty ought to know this as well because she's usually the more reasonable foil to Veronica. It's not like it's empowering either of them the same way it would if they were fighting over Archie (as they traditionally do in Archie comics) and then mutually decided he wasn't worth destroying their friendship over, this is Betty's boss who she kept changing her opinion about based on whether or not he sided with her. It's flimsy. And they never really address Betty's behavior here going forward or use this as an opportunity for growth (at least from what I read following this, mind you I haven't kept up on the comic in a while).

To talk about the main character, Ethel, there's actually another weird scene that comes after the Betty/Veronica exchange, this is after she's started seeing Moose (though they don't have an official relationship yet) and is going over to his house for the first time.

Like, these two aren't even officially dating yet and she's already nitpicking things about him and taking his choices personally. It feels very unnecessary and vapid - and if you're someone who's read Archie comics before, it feels very out of character for someone like Ethel, who's traditionally a very sweet (albeit hopeless romantic) girl, here she just feels mean all the time.

And the comic as a whole just has a lot of these passive aggressive scenes. The internal monologuing of Ethel is insufferable because it's often just her constantly judging people or jumping to extreme conclusions. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for characters who aren't morally good, but I don't want to read a story that lives in the head of an asshole LOL

All that said, I haven't kept up on anything from BEE in a while, from what I've scrolled through of newer episodes at a glance it seems to have dialed back on some of that passive aggressiveness, but I'm gonna have to do a re-read of it at some point with the newer episodes included to form a stronger opinion. So take what I say here with grains of salt.

I just don't think it's necessarily a good example of a "strong romance series". Everything feels so petty all of the time and when it does try to act informed or mature, it's completely undercut by characters who can't practice what they preach. A lot of comics on the platform tend to stress "women supporting women" but then really it turns into "women hating men" and it's just like...?? Is that really the point of the message we're trying to get across here?

Add in the extremely stiff dialogue and text dumping and cheap art, and this just doesn't feel like something that would be made for a series like Archie of all things. The Archie franchise has really been suffering from lame melodrama and unlikeable characters as of late, I know there's only so much one can do to re-adapt a series that was from the 1940's, but it feels like it's often misinterpreting the point of the more modernized messages they're trying to preach rather than giving us an actual story with characters who learn and develop along the way. It comes across more as the Archie franchise looking for shortcuts to connect with "today's audience" by using cheap buzzwords rather than put any actual effort into the writing.

IDK, it's just a very mediocre comic with very mediocre attempts at seeming "progressive" and it feels so disingenuous. The characters never feel like they have any real integrity or development, especially with how some of them flip-flop on a dime based on whatever the creators want the audience to feel.

It's just a big ball of 'meh'.

[crocodile-picture-day]

Betty sacrificed everything for Simon. Simon sacrificed almost everything for her.

They are both incredibly intense in their relationship with each other. I cannot stress enough how much their obsession for each other is mutual. The one difference I have seen so far is that Betty takes more drastic measures than Simon to be together.

He did not ask her to do this. He does not owe her anything. And yet, there is a power imbalance in his favor. It's no one's fault but it's still there. It's bending my mind how real this relationship is.

Betty happily put her life on hold to join Simon in his life and that became their normal. When she had the chance, she jumped head-first into a world she only recognized through her fringe studies on magic and ancient artifacts. She committed cosmic atrocities and hurt people along the way to find a way to get Simon back from the Ice King. In the end, she finally succeeded by fusing her body and mind with an omnipotent chaos god. She got him back, but she lost herself in the process.

On the other hand, Simon happily welcomed Betty into his life, having her join him in his adventures. Then he lost her and himself to the freak accident of putting on the crown. When he regained lucidity for a short while, he very swiftly tried to reach Betty. Not to be with her, but to tell her goodbye. It was Betty's idea to jump through the portal.

Once Simon was free from the crown's curse, he tried to reach Betty just like she had tried to reach him. And just like before, it was very, very hard.

(Hell, Prismo couldn't even help him, and granting wishes is his whole thing! Betty fusing with Golb seems to be treated by the narrative as a more drastic and permanent transformation than succumbing to the ice crown. And understandably so!)

Simon tried. But I think the key difference between the two is that Simon was only trying to summon Golb because he was trying to summon Betty. Betty summoned Golb without Simon even being there. I don't think Simon would have done that.

They are devoted to each other, but Simon is able to (well, he's trying to anyway) have a life outside of her. Betty's devotion to him outweighs her devotion to herself. She cannot have a life outside of Simon. And that, in my opinion, is the gap in power that let Simon's wishes outweigh Betty's in the relationship.

TL;DR: Simon and Betty love each other a lot. But Betty lost herself in Simon

while Simon is able to find his identity outside of her.

(^ as opposed to saying "It's good to see you too")

[fyeahmeddy]

"There was no power imbalance between Simon and Betty!!! There was no grounds for abuse!!! They weren't toxic at all!!! They could be the same age!!! there was no age gap!!!! be normal!!!!" blind ass take.

Betty literally calls Simon "doctor" while she has no title, she's just a student. Even if they were close in age or he wasn't her professor, Simon was academically/socially superior to her, and dare to tell me that's not a power imbalance. She calls him by his last name for this exact reason.

It's pretty funny that some people are trying SOOOOOO hard to save the "innocence" of Petrigrof, as if the whole series isn't telling you "hey, don't idealize stuff". The ship is cute and I'm sure there are positive things about them, but sure enough there were also negative things about them. That's what AT has always been about.

be normal about it? be realistic about it

[little-sw33tie]

Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

I'm unsure whether the living conditions of the Toons would fall into race stratification, as they're less their own race than their own species? In any event, there's plenty to cover.

Most if not all Toons have jobs in the entertainment industry, not only because it comes naturally to them but also because it's essentially the only jobs they can get outside of Toontown. "Gender" plays a role too. Characters like Jessica Rabbit work in what are essentially Gentleman's Clubs as it's all they can get as a job due to the way they're drawn, which is viewed as oversexualized by the humans in the world (and the viewer). They cannot control how they are drawn, nor perceived, but it determines their status and role within the world. I put gender in quotation marks as the Toon characters do not seem to value gender or sexuality as appealing/attractive/of note, so much as the ability to make someone laugh.

Toontown in its entirety, the place where all Toons live, is owned by Marvin Acme. The plot of the movie follows attempts to secure Toontown so it does not get turned into a highway. This makes the Toons a vulnerable and marginalized group. Their society, from the small amount covering the topic, seems to fall the most into the Elite-Mass Hierarchy System, though not quite perfectly. The land they live on is less governed by one person than owned, but while Acme owned it they did have equality of opportunity.

What is certain is that the Davis-Moore thesis would not be "correct" in this context. There are higher paid Toons, even though they're nearly all in the entertainment industry. Work isn't entirely skill based, but also has to do with a Toon's very makeup- they have certain abilities from birth. One of the characters is a huge movie star because he remains a baby, even though he is a full grown man. This is not really a skill or talent so much as just profiting off of his appearances, and yet he is rewarded highly for it. This aligns with opposition to the theory centering around "hey, this doesn't really take race, class by birth, gender, etc. into account" (to put it simply).

I'm not sure what the filmmakers are trying to convey about social stratification. It almost falls more under Hegel's views about interdependence and a slave-master relationship. There's a blatant power imbalance, but also a lot of interdependence. The Humans provide the jobs, and control Toontown, but the Toons desire the amusement of the Humans. The Humans give them jobs. The movie is hard to fit into a certain lens because Toons are treated as a strange mix between people, property, and characters. The rules of their very living and dying is different- bludgeoning one wouldn't kill it but making it laugh to death works. How do you apply the gravity of starvation and poverty to a "hobo" cartoon caricature which is made to be poor? Is it even suffering? Are animal Toons to be considered less than Human if they look and act like animals.... but are sentient? Dumbo in the movie is paid in peanuts! Is that fair to him, when his costars are making real world money? What is of more value to an elephant? Is the whole issue of Betty Boop and Jessica Rabbit working in a Human Gentleman's Club to be ogled even though it's not applicable to Toon culture and values considered exploitation of "Women" (do they even count as women or are they just perceived as women by human society?)

There's more nuance to overthinking this movie than you'd imagine. There's certainly many angles you could view it from.

Anyhow, movie stars like Roger Rabbit are high up in the "layers of rock" so to speak. They have a lot of money, a lot of publicity, and rank even in Human society. He and his wife Jessica are celebrities, after all! Big name characters like Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse are also in this category. It's hard to judge standards of living amongst Toons. Eddie, the detective (Human) is shown to be on hard times. He experienced downward mobility after his brother died. This resulted in him becoming an alcoholic and he neglected his duties, stopping engagement in his detective work. So desperate for money (and presumably below the poverty line) he takes a job far below his skill level (a snoop job (taking photos of Jessica "cheating" (playing literal patty cake)), despite having been a well respected detective). He would, at this point in the movie, likely fall into relative poverty. He is still eating, still has the agency and as such a home, etc. but he's not living comfortably by any means. This is also probably an example of anomie affecting a person.

Whose theory is the most applicable in explaining social stratification in the movie? Probably neo-Marxist Erik Olin Wright. Because there's so much nuance in what's happening due to the complexities of Toons existing, a perspective that asks a lot of questions is important. You cannot be black and white when some of the "people" you're talking about are literally drawn in black and white. There's a lot of power dynamics to be discussed, and a lot of oppression that can be viewed in a semi-Marxist lens (particularly since the main plot of the movie sort of centers around the destruction of public transport in favour of highways and all that entails).

Might I have your hand in platonic marriage?

[doctorguilty]

F&c thoughts more (suicide ment a lot)

I think the story board discussion really backs up my point the narrative got really cruel to simon though like I've been saying, it was weird to go out of the way to bring up like brand new flashbacks and send him on like a guilt journey over things he didn't do wrong particularly like, the autism which I stand by, and the story at face value was simon being willing to, in a sense, commit mental suicide by sacrificing his life and sanity to protect fionna's world, which is sort of his like, excuse in a way to give up, you know? Like he was already so depressed he missed being ice king because he didn't have to face his life, you're following me right, about the serious depression?

And then we get these boards with some unused dialogue that is way more direct about Simon's intent when it came to doing the ritual to see betty. We're sort of under the impression he was somehow trying to save her, something like that, and then after he apologized for everything the lifting him towards her mouth and him resigning to it seems like a "I accept what's coming to me". But no, no no its worse..!! In the unused dialogue he outright says, out loud, he was attempting to do the ritual because he wanted golbetty to consume him (and he would die. That's what would happen.), and maybe that way they'd at least be reunited in a way. Before meeting fionna before deciding to find a new crown for her, and destroy his brain, he was trying to get to the place he wanted to be to finally kill himself, with the closure he wanted. Do you understand. Do you follow me. And he changed his mind after meeting fionna, (even following the unused dialogue) that he would prefer to live and instead just sacrifice his brain. We can pretty much assume, the scene we ended up with, was more of his implicit desire to die (and fionna no longer needed simon to be alive to exist), and instead golbetty grants him another chance because SHE wants him to live. Which is nice don't get me wrong ! Like really it's nothing betty did it's like, the writers choice to put him through weird guilt about (the almost non existent??) power imbalance and disregard everything in between, in both AT and what betty fucked around and found out with, And again like, disregarding the whole part of the f&c highlight that the world would be a wreck without him having survived with magic etc like ... the star.. did we forget the star .....

Its just. Idk maybe it just hits too close to home to have this blatantly autistic and dangerously suicidally depressed man go through all that extra apologizing and weird framing of what he's at fault for when there's nothing like TRULY there is nothing and I'm not even kidding like it just doesn't make sense ,,,, give him a happier ending in s2 I am just feeling so unsatisfied with how his suffering was treated in the end (when it was otherwise like???? Really terrific the rest of the way through? How it was handled??)

Tbh I think the horny fans have the right idea taking it and running with "simon has a giantess vore kink for his chaos god wife" because that's just less depressing than how the reality was handled. Like sure I'll align myself with that. At least he'd be like, rewarded a little more on par with the happiness he (and betty for that matter!!) deserves :[

Idk like am I insane!!! Can anyone hear me! It's still so dark in here

[thetaoofbetty]

Since you were talking about Glen. I’m a bit confused why nobody seems to be picking up that he’s not her colleague (Betty is still a trainee!) but her SUPERIOR! There’s a clear power imbalance between them - especially given the fact that Betty seems to be on some sort of probation for the mistake she made while investigating TBK. He was also condescending and insensitive towards her. So there are clearly some very icky and transactional elements to whatever kind of “relationship” they have and we could already see that Betty actively tries to avoid him. IMO it looks a bit like he’s coercing her into sleeping with him (in exchange for not firing her). Very interested in your thoughts.

i mean, i hold different standards for fiction than i do for my real life, you know? if the narrative treats it like a problem, then i will roll with it being a problem. i think, as you said, his condescending attitude towards her is a bigger issue. that she’s not very interested tells me he’s more invested than she is, tbh. why he’s more invested, we don’t know yet. maybe he’s controlling and gross, maybe he’s a good guy who just picked the wrong girl to simp over, we don’t know yet. 

can you be sort of a dick and a simp? i don’t know. anyways, i didn’t get the impression he’s coercing her (not yet anyhow), i feel like she’s just not that into him and he’s frustrated with it. which, i would find a problem because it’s often been shown that men who are like that tend to take drastic measures into their own hands to control the object of their affection. 

guys like that are creepy and i’ve been there done that, and had to do some down and dirty tactics to get him off my ass tbh (which, not proud of) but when men don’t understand the concept of no, you need to watch out for yourself. maybe betty doesn’t take him seriously yet, maybe she needs to. maybe she’s about to find out the hard way. 

maybe he’s a good guy who’s badly written and unimportant to the narrative at the moment. with rvd’s history, my immediate vote is bad guy because women in this show get like, 2 guys maximum who won’t emotionally or physically control or abuse them. so. what are the odds, you know?

maybe she feels like she can’t tell him to kick rocks because of her job and that would be a problem but narratively, i’m taking a wait and see approach on glen. which is, i fully expect him to be a d-bag but will be slightly shocked if he’s just a nice guy who doesn’t want betty to end up in a murder hole again. even if he’s being a bit of a dick about it at the moment. 

[sicklyseraphnsuch]

cw: simon and betty and their professional relationship

People jump to be either offended or defensive when talking about this so Im putting that cw there. Practice self defence. if you dont wanna read this and you click through, yeah thats not my problem.

So this is about Simon and Betty, and regarding the vague setting around their professional relationship, namely that Simon is shown giving a guest lecture and Betty is part of the class that he is lecturing to

But the setting doesn't pin down the specifics - like is he a visiting researcher, how long is he affiliated with the school, etc. That said, given this:

I've been tooting some thoughts around and here's what I find funny

How unappealing this relationship could be to general fans of the Teacher-Student fantasy.

My psuedo-analysis from being a fandom oldie is that usually this fantasy caters to the idea of having the teacher, usually the man, devote himself to caring for and promoting the student, usually the woman. And like fantasies don't need to make sense? But I'm thinking that in a society where women are always the nurturers, portraying a relationship where the man is dedicated to nurturing the growth of the woman - well that's novel. It focuses on the woman's character arc - she's the main character! - and all the ways the man supports her into becoming an accomplished, successful professional in whatever field they're in.

Do you see where I'm going here?

Simon and Betty fulfill none of that.

Straight off the bat, Betty introduces herself by teaching Simon something. She was never positioning herself as someone who wanted to learn from Simon, and often assists him. And right there? Already breaking the Teacher-Student fantasy mold.

Like the usual template for this fantasy would actually emphasize the power imbalance between the teacher and the student. The teacher knows everything. The teacher has the most responsibility and the most authority. If the student steps out of line, the teacher is supposed to provide discipline.

If it's not one of the saucier takes of the fantasy which revels in the taboo, the teacher-student romantic plotline usually center around overcoming that power imbalance. (exceptions of course exist)

And I think about how... if Simon was just less of a pushover, Simon and Betty would have followed the usual template for a teacher-student fantasy. And they would have been actually better off that way?

Let's go back to the part where I mentioned that a teacher-student dynamic would have emphasized the power imbalance, specifically if the student acts out, the teacher provides disciplinary measures. You know what Simon does? Not that!

Oh he started to. If he had exercised his authority better, he would have continued his lecture to Betty about leaving love letters to university staff out in the open for literally anybody to see. She left it in a book in the library!!! What if Simon didn't see it first?

And you know, the whole enforcing boundaries thing. He was radio silent for two (?) weeks after their trip, and he was willing to keep things professional. Betty leaves him one love letter and he goes running. Which in hindsight, that's actually uncharacteristic for staid, fastidious Petrikov. He makes the decision to confess the moment she confesses first. Like! Boundaries, gone. Wrist, snatched. Relationship, doomed.

Which is primarily the point in the whole Betty and Simon relationship. Simon treated her as an equal when he should have been aware that their relationship was never equal to begin with - not with the way Betty kept putting him on a pedestal. It's a matter of perspective and professionalism, yada yada blah blah.

TL;DR: Simon did not get the memo that he was in a teacher-student romance plotline. Hell, even if it was the saucier taboo take, that would still mean he was aware of the imbalance between him and Betty.

He was living a college AU, where they had a meet cute as collegues. She was in a celebrity AU, where she's a stan that managed to score a trip with her idol. They were never on the same page.

[twokinkybeans]

Some ideas for cold coffee (which I adored) (so excited that asks no longer have character limits lol)

1. Would be interesting to see how they handle feeding. Can they now feed only off of Peter? He probably wouldn’t be enough for two vampires for forever. But is he okay with them killing? I feel like he would try to convince them to try other methods (find other who consent; don’t bleed anyone to death; get blood bags) but also his top priority would be them staying alive :)

2. I would love an angsty fight at some point regarding mind manipulation!! Not like non-con or anything, but they do something without his consent, like maybe they don’t want him to do something dangerous, so they command him to stay home? Or maybe they get in a fight and make him stop talking (also interesting to think about if their mind manipulation is only ever intentional or if sometimes they do it on accident...)? Or maybe they do something bad and make Peter forget it but then he finds out? And just Peter calling them tf out

3. Just in general, very interesting to explore their uneven power dynamics. Tony and Bucky are much older, have more money, have more influence, are stronger, and can manipulate his mind. I think it could put Peter in some situations where he’s afraid to say no to them. But I really like the idea of Peter being like, you have a lot of power over me, you could control me if you want, I can’t stop you if you make me your slave. But I will only ever be your lover if you treat me with respect

4. Love the idea of vampires having soulmates/true mates. Would be cool to see all three of them learning about how it works together. Just random ideas: no blood will ever taste as good as Peter’s; they are able to bite him a certain way to officially claim him; Peter has some sort of power over them too (idk what... maybe they can’t drain him without his consent? Maybe they can feel his emotions so it’s painful to them if they upset him? Idk).

5. Maybe Tony and Bucky are powerful vampires and them claiming Peter both protects him and puts him in danger. It warns off most vampires, but entices some who want to challenge them

6. They want to spoil Peter (and do!!) but Peter still wants to make a living for himself so he know he doesn’t have to rely on them. They compromise by giving him a job at stark industries

7. I want to see more of Peter using his position with them for good like he did for Betty!! Make them do good and be better people!!

8. Sugar baby Peter!!!!

9. Sexy vampire sex!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10. Boys in love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay idk how this will show up for you, so sorry for this really long message and especially if it’s formatted weirdly. I’m excited to see what you come up!!! Feel free to message me if you ever wanna talk more about it, I’m clearly very invested lol :)

OMG this ask is EVERYTHING! YES! YES! YEEEES! These are all such good ideas omgg, lemme type my reply per point. Your ask formatted well for me on mobile, not sure how it looks on desktop :P I'm also replying via mobile, so who knows what this post is gonna end up looking like 🤣🤣

1. This would definitely be interesting! I think part of the plot for this fic would be finding the answer to the question /why/ Peter smells and tastes so good.

Peter is still a good person for sure, so yes, he would not take kindly to his boyfriends sucking their prey dry :P All fun things to explore!

2. YesyesyesYES fuck yes, this is happening, i can promise you that. This is some serious gourmet shit *chef's kiss*

We already established Peter went to MIT and stopped because of May's illness. Maybe I can create some interesting scenarios if he does pick up his student life again 👀

3. Peter is a strong boi. But the power imbalance is gigantic for sure, so that definitely must have an effect on how peter approaches certain situations.

4. Ooh, yes, siring him would be 👀👀👀 Def like the idea of some sort of connection between them!

5. Muahaha yes, i was already thinking about other vampires learning about Peter. Maybe smelling him and going just as nuts for him as Bucky and Tony? If they're separated because Peter is studying again, things could get interesting.👀👀👀

6. Definitely! As much as Peter loves being empty for them, he's still a strong personality with a mind that needs the stimulation of a challenging environment. Thats why i thought of the studying! He's still his own person and won't just give up his entire personality.

7. Yes! It's one of the things I want his cheeky side to come out for more. Ask them to donate or look into certain subjects, designing things for SI that have a positive impact on the environment, etc. Slowly but surely he pushes them in the other direction. He wont take no for an answer on these kinds of things. Then again, all he has to do is smile and flutter his eyes and he gets whatever he wants :P

8. YES!

9. YES!!!

10. YES!!!!!!!

You have no idea how happy these messages make me! Do feel free to drop in my asks or even DMs to brainstorm more! Your ideas are solid omgg! Other suggestions are always welcome! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

-Lien

[mst3kproject]

607: Bloodlust

Guys.  For the sake of yourselves and everything you love, never look for material related to this movie by searching the tumblr tags for bloodlust.  Just don’t.  While you will find the odd bit that’s actually relevant, you will also find… look, I’m sure your imaginations are equal to the task.  Some of the bonus material this week will be stuff from the episode, but there will also be a few things I found in the tag that just made me go whaaaaaat?.  None of them are gross, I promise, they’re just… odd.

A couple of blond dumbasses, who I think are named Johnny and Betty, and a couple of brunet dumbasses, possibly Jeannie and Peter, decide to have a picnic on a tropical island.  Unsurprisingly this turns out to be the home of a transparently evil Vincent-Price-looking asshole, whose hobby is murdering his guests and taxidermizing their corpses (apparently ‘taxidermize’ is a real word – my spellcheck doesn’t underline it).  Vincent-at-half-the-Price’s drunk flunky and cheating wife have an escape plan, but once that’s been foiled it’s just these idiots against the world’s self-proclaimed greatest hunter.

I am apparently in a minority, but I think this episode’s host sketches are brilliant.  Pearl’s first appearance is classic and Crow ruining Mystery Dinner Theatre is great, but my favourite part is when the SOL’s hoedown descends into anarchy.  I can watch that over and over.  If I ever witness a riot I’m going to be very tempted to just shout, “and now promenade!” and see what happens.

Anyway, The Most Dangerous Game is one of those things they make you read in English class, and like many things I had to read in English class it left me mildly traumatized.  It’s a deeply distasteful story about man’s bloodthirsty nature and how the only way to overcome evil is to sink to its level, and every so often I’ll remember it, or Harrison Bergeron, or The Lottery, and it makes my day seem a little more dismal.  I’m pretty sure nobody ever reads it except high school students and the Zodiac Killer.

So if you were wondering why it took me so long to get around to reviewing this one… well, I felt like I had to revisit the story in order to do justice to a review of this movie, and I really really really didn’t want to do that.  Just thinking about it gives me flashbacks to things like Sonnet 116 and that horrible story in which the floor was both lava and snakes.  But I said every episode and so here I fucking am.

Anyway, my return to The Most Dangerous Game, or at least to its Cole’s Notes, proved very educational – it taught me that not only is Bloodlust a lousy movie, it’s also one of those adaptations that completely misses the point of the work it’s attempting to adapt.  The main theme of The Most Dangerous Game is how the only difference between the hunter and the hunted is which one is in a position of power. Rainsford is himself a big game hunter, and discusses this with his friend Whitney.  Upon finding himself on Zaroff’s island, he becomes the prey, because Zaroff is the one with all the power.  At the end, Zaroff had believed Rainsford is dead, which gives Rainsford the advantage of surprise and turns the tables again.

Bloodlust completely discards this theme.  There’s never any real discussion of the power imbalance. Worse, while Rainsford was an experienced hunter and fighter himself, somebody Zaroff considered a worthy adversary, these four clowns are just young people who blundered into this situation and aren’t even Vincent-at-half-the-Price’s preferred prey.  He doesn’t hunt them like he does his escaped criminals, because he thinks it’ll be a challenge, he does it because the only other alternatives are to straight-up murder them or to let them go, neither of which are acceptable to him.

Rainsford was an expert on traps and tracking, which meant he could offer Zaroff a meaningful  challenge. Of the four young people in Bloodlust, only one of them is kind of barely competent, that being Betty the judo expert.  She’s smart enough to figure out how to get away with breaking the window, and manages to keep her head and chuck the lackey into the vat of acid.  When confronted with the John the Baptist dude, however, she freezes and screams along with Jeannie.  The group survives through nothing but sheer luck.

It was luck that allowed them to get out of the house and then back into it without getting seen.  It was lucky that Vincent-at-half-the-Price chose to go after the drunken sea captain first and the boys later.  It was just good luck that Jondor survived the quicksand and showed up in the nick of time to take revenge on his master.  The supposed heroes are barely involved in their own salvation.  At the end of The Most Dangerous Game, Rainsford had to sink to Zaroff’s level and become a murderer.  The four idiots in Bloodlust just stand and watch.

The one kind of interesting spin the movie tries to put on things is when it takes some time to explore why Vincent-at-half-the-Price is the way he is.  He describes how war inured him to killing until he came to consider it a pleasure. This invites us to think about people who become murderers – prevailing opinion seems to be that people like the aforementioned Zodiac Killer are born without compassion, that their killing sprees are inevitable.  Some killers, like BTK or the Green River Killer, have stated themselves that they need to kill and couldn’t put it off forever, even when they managed to take long breaks.  It’s true that many of these murderers come from terrible backgrounds – but other people are abused as children and don’t grow up to kill people.

Vincent-at-half-the-Price’s killing spree is not inevitable.  He claims to have found it distasteful at first but it later became a pleasure as repeated kills eroded the value of human lives in his eyes.  This is actually a bit more thoughtful than Zaroff, who started out killing animals and moved up when it no longer offered him enough of a challenge.  He kills people because he thinks if they can’t escape him then they don’t deserve to live.  Once again, however, this change loses one of the points The Most Dangerous Game was trying to make, which is that killing animals for sport is brutal and pointless.  At the beginning of the story Rainsford and Whitney were on their way to the Amazon to hunt jaguars – not for food, or because the jaguar offers any threat to them, but simply because they can.

So while the source material may have left stains on my young psyche, it at least had something to say.  I will also say that it’s pretty suspenseful, and leaves you honestly worried for Rainsford as Zaroff evades his traps and closes in on him.  Bloodlust, on the other hand, is mostly just boring. You know they’re not going to kill off any of the four protagonists, because the movie just doesn’t have the guts to do it.  It can’t kill the girls because they’re girls, and it can’t kill the boys because then the girls would be sad.  Sandra and the two drunks are nothing but sacrificial victims, because the writers think you can’t have a horror movie without a body count.

Even aside of that, though, this movie would still be boring.  Sandra and Drunk #2 come to the girls’ room (not the boys’ room, because they couldn’t afford another set) to tell them a bunch of things we’ve already figured out for ourselves.  Vincent-at-half-the-Price monologues endlessly as if one of his tactics is boring his guests to death.  We never actually believe that Sandra and Drunk #2 mean to come back for the protagonists, so it doesn’t really matter to us when they’re killed.

I keep wanting to refer to the main characters as ‘the kids’ but I refuse to do so.  They’re at least not as annoying as the cast of your average 80’s slasher film, but they accomplish that mainly by being very bland.  Johnny is Brave, Peter is Nerdy, Betty is Tough, and Jeannie is Scared, and that’s it.  It’s really hard to care about any of them except Betty, who earns a modicum of sympathy by being the only really proactive one (and from my longstanding crush on June Kenney).  Once we realize the movie isn’t going to kill any of them we just stop caring.

I’m not sure what to make of Vincent-at-half-the-Price’s cheating. This seems like they’re trying to make some kind of point with it – he takes a crossbow with three bolts, one for each intended victim, and gives them a gun with one bullet.  This is supposed to be sporting.  But the gun has been disabled, and when he uses the bolts he pulls them out of the corpses, cleans them off, and recycles them.  Since the ending has him just pulling out a gun to shoot his cornered victims at point blank range, I guess the point is that for all he justifies it as a form of sport, really he just likes killing people.  The story managed to say that about Zaroff in other ways.

So yeah, this one really sucks.  Even Mike and the bots couldn’t save it.  There’s a few odd lines that are really funny but most of them are so-so, and there’s stretches when the movie just doesn’t offer them anything to riff.  Watching it without the intermittent relief offered by the host sketches was a chore, and it forced me to re-visit a bad experience from my childhood.  Fuck this movie.

[onceuponamirror]

riverdale 201 meta

no one asked me but i’ve got Thoughts so i’m making the post anyway, because it’s been a long time since i’ve done a chunky meta and this is what i’m really here for, SO

all the world’s a stage

first of all, acting was fairly strong all around, strong chemistry, and bughead was particularly excellent in terms of continuing their pattern of healthy communication, even when that leads to uncomfortable truths.

diving into it, i could see the effect of the step they took in their relationship and the change that admitting love had, particularly on jug, all grins and teasing and breathing some much needed light of love into the character

[x]

not just because it was such a spot of happiness amongst the heaviness of jug’s earlier arcs and this episode’s drama

but also because the bigger they are the harder they fall---

it made the hammer heavy when he realized his seemingly simple request for information was taken as a direct order essentially from his father, and the intense ramifications of such.

he admitted to betty that he was drawn to the motorcycle, the jacket, to stay closer to his father, a person he still idolizes despite having such a thick sense of disenfranchisement about him that he lived in a drive in for who knows how many months---and the gang delivering the “proof” of completing a job, and more so, realizing that his father would want to see that the job was done, sets the stage.

the civil war isn’t just a story of class warfare and suburban disillusionment. it isn’t just about bughead’s romeo and juliet™ storyline. it’s jughead. 

jughead is the civil war, all happening within himself. 

he’s still just a young boy craving a hero, and his father falling on his sword at the end of the first season earned him a lot of respect in his son’s eyes---his father’s biker iconography suddenly became a symbol of the under trod, proletariat revolutionary a jaded kid like jughead would be desperate for. 

and the americana open road biker imagery has been heavily rose-colored over the years, particularly in pop culture, and i think that’s what jughead bought into---the idea of rebels, not the gang behind it. 

and here he realizes that it’s not just symbolism. it’s not a game.

[x]

i mean, jughead was playing amateur p.i. all episode, clearly relishing in the role---and so when he came home to a bloodied message, it was def a successful emphasis of the fact that he was almost treating it like a game, which did establish him as a capable detective once more, but also highlighted how naive he can be. 

in an episode that was really all about fathers, an absentee FP managed to not just have a presence---but an impact.

it was an especially interesting parallel between the other fathers---fred was also heavily exploring symbolism within his fever death dream scape, witnessing passages of time, whereas hiram was introduced almost as the opposite anvil to FP, his entire presence ominously manifesting in a bottle of cristal. 

his absence was conspicuous, where FP’s was not initially, and by the end of the episode, their identities as major players within a larger scheme put them on opposite ends of the same road. 

and unlike jughead, who realized throughout the course of the episode that this wasn’t a game, that there are rules and they’re being applied to himself---veronica is hyperaware of this game, hyperaware of the manipulations at play, and is certainly adept at it.

but like jughead, she doesn’t seem to really have the scope of it yet. 

veronica is a character who only shows her age around the adults with whom she’s always had intense power imbalances. in a world of elite new york society and manipulative, abusive parents, she was forced to appear grown up, so much so that she tricked herself. 

[x]

through the poking and proding of her mother, leveraging timed accusations, and brattily doing the things she knows she’s not supposed to, veronica reveals herself as probably the most immature character on the show---but that’s a good thing, hear me out.

because she’s also the character who appeared the most put together. the most honest with herself, the most willing to look within and self-analyze. in the first season, she seemed unflappable, but it was also---well, there was no real tension in her character beyond a building fear that her parents were not who she thought they were. 

i thought veronica could’ve been more compelling than what we got in season one, so this opening with setting the stage of her as a child playing a game she doesn’t understand the stakes of sets her up for really excellent character growth and development---

and some fun structural parallels between jughead too, which will hopefully galvanize the layers of classism to be explored throughout the season. 

veronica and her father vs jughead and his, in the ways they navigate the societal games that feel so disparate from one another but will ultimately, i’m sure, meet in the mobs v. gangs mouth of cultural ouroboros. 

so i’m excited!! ok, now moving on to betty.

[x]

the acting was also very strong here. i think i read lili describe this season as “tortured” for her character, and that already came across. she too had the afterglow of i love you, but obviously haunted by what happened after that; her anxiety about the serpents was felt and perfectly sold.

but her ability to understand that from jughead’s perspective while maintaining her skepticism (rightly so, considering) showed maturity while also set the stage for the upcoming tension.

i wish i had more to talk about with her in this ep, but i think i will again soon.

also, that chemistry!!! again!!!

[x]

anyway.

cheryl was also crazy good tonight; she gave me chills!! madelaine petsch’s greatest skill is her intonation---she has an ability to keep a blank face that puts her entire delivery into her voice. 

she did this last season too, when speaking to her parents (and particularly her father), where she’d keep a doll-like composure that was manipulated by tone, and she did it again, with that soft voice and eyes that manage to be dull and blank and calculating and winking all at once. 

i don’t know how she does it but i’m friggin impressed!!!

[x]

however, the weight of this episode rode on archie overall, and there were some things i felt fall a little flat.

i know what they were going for was a slow build of impact, as they did with jughead, realizing the depth of what was going on, but the the whole first third of the episode just was slow and, at times, felt a bit insensitive to the topic of a man being shot.

(minus the scene where they all get the call---particularly sold by the perfect 80s synth-noir music of the chromatics [x])

when archie (and veronica too) did finally break down (though for him it was again) i think it was a strong moment, and very well acted---KJ does terror and latent anguish very well, two spectrum ends of the same emotion that is hard to balance. he was shaky with the gunman, and then when he really gave in to the trauma of that, it was well done. 

and right before he did give in was, i think, the best part of his performance. it’s easy to sell crying. it’s not easy to sell all the emotions that you cling to in order to keep yourself from doing that.

[x]

but. i wish there was a different tone set between the time he left the hospital and when it all hit him again. this is an issue with the episode direction, though.

still, a good episode for him, it was nice that archie had more to do than be the chess board plot plays out on top of, and moreover i think it really established the tone of the next arc, and the obsessive vigilance that’s taking over him.

so as a whole, a good development/establishment episode for these 5 main characters. 

lights, camera---

into the overall, the cinematography was excellent!!

[x]

however, i think this was an episode that particularly highlighted the difference between cinematography and direction---as in, the former was strong, the latter felt off. 

perhaps it’s the chronic effect of heavy promotion and hype, but i honestly felt like the episode was confusingly paced in terms of it’s timeline, and surprisingly goofy with the special effects (shaky zoom? really?).

and as i said above with archie’s point, the structure of the episode was rough and just wasn’t the best directed episode of television i’ve seen. i think there needed to be a lot more momentum coming out of the gate.

however, again, the cinematography, and the framing within those shots, was very strong. there was one shot that was just the word “hospital” but the H was a parking sign number and it was so simple but i am obsessed with it.

[x]

extra thoughts

hopefully the show actually consciously tackle the topic of abuse beyond the bare bones of an origin story (cheryl, calling it as it is), especially of it’s many forms that it’s already portrayed and frankly fumbled (i.e. grundy, even in the curtain of the premiere), but also with the upcoming lodge arc.

i mean, many of us were calling for grundy’s death, and i wasn’t one of those people because i wanted her to fucking go on TRIAL for her aggressive sexual predation of young boys and have an actual dialogue about male rape, so my main concern with her back for a ~twist that ended in her murder is that we’ll never get to have that conversation? and the impact that her abusive behavior had on archie, too? i mean???? ugh 

and i don’t really have much to say about cheryl and veronica’s abusive relationships with their parents as of now, because it’s late and i’m tired and i think i just wrote like 5k words, but just that i want them to handle this right, and i’m nervous but trying to be optimistic that with a longer season and more time, heavy topics will be handled with sensitivity and the respect they require. 

so cheers to a new season, i think this episode set the stage for a lot of meaty character growth, neon delirium aesthetics, and a plot that explores classism and family under a microscope. 

yay!

also---who else thinks the “green-eyed shooter” was chic cooper? i mean, come on

[jamezvaldes]

PLEASE RAMBLE ABOUT DESPERATO I LOVE NICKY SO MUCH

I’ve been answering this over the past couple of days because idk what you wanted me to ramble about?? like come on man, give me the rambling direction. and tbh i didn’t know what i wanted to ramble about when I posted. This is actually gonna be under the cut because I ramble about secondary characters a lot.

Desperato/Blackwell Gals: I don’t think people will expect it to go certain ways in terms of some areas. Like I don’t think it’s what people’ll expect and this inadvertently gives me a number of issues and makes my anxiety a lot worse, because i don’t know if people will like that i just do my own thing sometimes and not have the canon storyline at the forefront of the fic. Nicky’s issues are a major point of the fic. Emmy’s relationship with her mother is another important issue, like Em learning to not care about her and learning to not feel guilty about cutting her out of her life.Also I will fight anyone who says that the relationship between the Blackwell gals isn’t the most important relationship in the whole fic. Like fight me.S2!Nicky is a fun character to play around with because it’s more true to who she actually is, like S1!Nic is sort of an act? like the person she wants to be. In relation to Jacob, I don’t think that Nicky has actually grieved him. Like she lives in the same house, her cabin was his, her car was his, her old motorcycle was his. Like there’s just a constant Jacob presences in her life so has she actually grieved him? and Emmy is so angry that she never got to have a relationship with him but has a relationship with a small select of videos that Nicky took of him. Emmy doesn’t know the real Jacob but a false one because of a small selection of moments that Nicky captured. Jacob wasn’t a good man but he tried his best for Nic and he loved her so much.  There’s a running joke that Jacob haunts the Blackwell home and the cabin.Nicky’s friends are my life line tbh. I love them all so much and they’re just a good group of people. - Nate Jenkins, Holly Mitchell, Quinn Lewis, Dean Murphy - They’re just so good!!!!! And Emmy’s other friends - Scott Bishop and Amber Mitchell - are just the best and this little trio are going to be the best and I’m just so excited to bring in my Amber. Who knows what the ships will be at the end of the three seasons? I sure as fuck don’t, well I have a vague idea but that’s a later problem for a depressed post 3am breakdown Jess to figure out. Nicky’s birthday party/event is probably one of the only times she’ll be truly happy throughout the entire fic tbhSecondary Characters:  if you want to see FC’s check this link and go to Desp on the right (x)▫️ Nate Jenkins - Nicky’s childhood best friend (they were next door neighbours) business partner and the other mechanic. Married to Joseph and are in the final stages of adopting a baby, they’re literally just waiting for it to be born and have all the paperwork finalised. The mom friend, and has been making dad jokes since he was a child. He’s a serpent but on the edge of the gang since he got married because they knew adoption was the only why they’d be able to have children so they have to look like #decent members of society and not knee deep in crime. Just loves pulling cars apart. ▫️ Holly Mitchell - Bartender in the Wrym. Was almost an accountant because why not. But left because of a ~scandal~. Engaged to Quinn Lewis and older sister to Amber Mitchell.  Makes a lot of “i’m engayed” style of jokes . A fun loving gal who takes nothing seriously. Also a serpent. Lost both her parents within the period of a year. Often sarcastic and acts as a therapist for the serpents because that’s sort of part of the job description for bartenders. Loves puns but not Amber’s puns. What is organisation? how was she almost an accountant with all this chaos.▫️ Quinn Lewis - She’s just the best, a nurse who works at the hospital and does nights at a no questions asked walk in clinic in the southside. Getting married so planning that takes up almost any of her free time. Has made Nicky maid of honor but has not told her that, just assumes that Nicky knows. Often very tired, always disgruntled. Patches Nicky up after fights far too often despite knowing she could and probably should lose her job because of it. A good person who loves her friends too much. Probably the most serious of the group and the most adult one. Also pool game is next level with this gal. Serpent as well. Very organised and has a good eye for detail. ▫️ Dean Murphy - A soft serpent  who is one of Nic’s childhood best friends. They shit a lot of illegal stuff together, stole cars and all that jazz. Cleaned himself up, worked a number of odd jobs until he started working in the sheriff’s department. Still a serpent despite this. A sarcastic rugged man who is often done with serpent shit and just wants to sit down and not help cover up a crime. Nic and Dean have a complicated relationship, like are they only friends because Nicky (lovingly and jokingly) threatens to blackmail him? Nah they be actual friends.  ▫️ Amber Mitchell -  My angry and depressed gal who i love and cannot wait to bring her in, see this  ask if you want to know more about her. She’s happy being a wallflower, probably will fight Betty Cooper at some-stage but also fight Jughead as well. ▫️ Scott Bishop - baby boy who i love with my whole cold dead heart, see this ask to see more from him. Sees the best in everyone bar Betty. Despite being a “loner” not friends with Jughead, can’t deal with his over dramatic ass.▫️ Amanda Harrison - Nicky’s mother. left baby Nic on Jacob’s doorstep. She’s an interesting character who I think you’ll hate to begin with but you’ll understand why she did what she did. I don’t think you’ll hate her when she leaves the fic. ▫️ Lucy Fletcher - Emmy’s mother and a complete bitch. A drug addict and she often successfully manipulates Emmy into doing stuff for her. Not a good person to be around, didn’t even tell Jacob that she was pregnant with his child▫️ Jacob Blackwell - lowkey often regret killing him but it had to be done. Nicky and Emmy’s father, didn’t know that Emmy was his child. A good father to Nicky and she was his only weakness. Was the leader of the serpents until his death. Was very violent and if anyone went against his wishes or challenged, fight would always occur, and he would always win. Was meant to be a pro bare knuckle boxer but did too much bad shit outside the ring to be one. ▫️ Tristian Owens - evil tbh.  He’s a drug dealer and a ghoulie who is currently in prison for tracking drugs across state lines. He’s a good five years older than Nicky, so she would have been 14 when they met and him 19. Became her “boyfriend” at age 15, he was 20, so not a boyfriend, there’s clearly a power imbalance from the offset. He introduced nicky to the harder drugs. Nicky never really got justice for what he did to her, he’ll be before the parole board soon.   ▫️ Jordan Naylor - Sweetie and music teacher. How he meets Nicky is cute ish. Comes back to Riverdale because his mother isn’t well.▫️ Simon -  Nicky’s sponsor at her AA meetings, he just wants the best for her. The only one who understands Nicky’s addiction since he was one as well. Like nothing is really known about him, since the sponsor isn’t meant to get personal with the sponsee. ▫️ Joseph Aquinas -  A southsider who isn’t a serpent. He’s a lawyer who works in civil law. Nate’s husband. Often gives Nicky legal advice, and he’s a good name who deserves the world. Cannot wait to start a family. Doesn’t mind that Nate will be dragged into dangerous stuff, but doesn’t like it, he’d rather that Nate didn’t get involved. But he knows that Nate would follow Nicky to hell and back. Joseph can deal with a  husband who comes home late but not a dead husband.

[onceuponamirror]

So I just now remembered that RAS said the final bughead scene in 1x13 was a deliberate homage to the final scene in The Godfather where Kay sees Michael surrounded by his Mafia family and being accepted by them as their leader. Do you think, thematically, that this connection goes beyond just one scene? That Jughead's journey may mirror Michael's, in that he starts out as a reluctant heir but gradually embraces his father's legacy? And how do you think it will affect him and Betty in s2?

super interesting question! it’s funny though, because even though this was a jughead question, it actually made me think more of veronica. but i’ll get to that. 

pacemaker, pacemaker, make me a match, set me a pace 

first of all, though: it’s very hard to say at this point. 

i think it’s obvious that RAS is self-identifying through jug in terms of cinematic references, so i definitely wouldn’t put it past him, especially considering the way they deliberately shot and angled the moment he put on the jacket, as you brought up.

and in a lot of ways, that’s what it certainly looks like at this point; heir apparent and the generational story, that is. but i’d say the thing that gives me pause for this theory is the pacing of it—though it’s hard to speak to it without context, the upcoming 2.05 looks as though he’s going all-in with the serpents already.

[x]

riverdale’s pacing has always been hit or miss (although i’ve disagreed with some things i’ve seen said) so it’s hard to say, without yet having hindsight, whether or not it’s rushed writing or the fact that they’re throwing his gauntlets into the snake pit so quickly speaks to something else.

as in—right now, i see the trajectory going as: 

jughead joins the serpents for the protection of himself and his friends; i’ll bet his stipulation for membership is safety and guard for them

this ends up being more than he bargained for 

but ultimately something happens that makes him feel this was the lesser evil; confirming that he needed their protection all along

there’s a reveal that him being jumped (the catalyst for him turning to the serpents) was a manipulative ploy from inside the serpents that he fell for

disillusionment, perhaps the struggle to get out of the gang

etcetera

and regardless of if i’m right or wrong about the above overall, the fact that they have him joining the serpents so early on makes me feel as though said disillusionment and regret and getting trapped is his arc, rather than stepping up to perhaps malicious crime, like michael. if it was happening midseason, i’d be more inclined to think such. 

but i really don’t know. perhaps he’d feel his only way out is to play their game, and then you could indeed be right, nonnie.

as i mentioned above, though, this question reminded me of a theory i’d had when watching the s2 premiere. 

donna corleone 

[x]

building off my point about pacing, whereas jug in the serpents (and the black hood) are front and center of this arc, there’s also the stirred pot of veronica and her parents and the mysterious street drugs, but the slow movement of the latter plots is written in a way that makes me think those are the true cornerstone arc of the season. 

as in, i think veronica is more likely michael than jughead.

and not just because of all the mob references thrown in around the lodges and hiram in particular, but because she’s a character who has the temperament for compartmentalizing her emotions, unlike jughead, who only thinks he does. 

she was introduced as a reformed mean girl, but without us having seen her as said mean girl, any story of redemption isn’t quite as sold. as a viewer, i want to see her descend and then consciously come back out of it. 

i don’t think veronica is or will be a true villain of any kind—in fact, i like her quite a bit, but objectively, she’s also capable of being deeply vindictive, hyper-focused, and confident about her ability to play the game. 

and yet, woefully unprepared for the one she’s stepped into. 

in my s2 premiere meta, i talked about the parallels between jughead and veronica being set up. 

unlike jughead, who realized throughout the course of the episode that this wasn’t a game, that there are rules and they’re being applied to himself—veronica is hyperaware of this game, hyperaware of the manipulations at play, and is certainly adept at it.

but like jughead, she doesn’t seem to really have the scope of it yet.

veronica is a character who only shows her age around the adults with whom she’s always had intense power imbalances. in a world of elite new york society and manipulative, abusive parents, she was forced to appear grown up, so much so that she tricked herself.

[…] and [there will be] some fun structural parallels between jughead too, which will hopefully galvanize the layers of classism to be explored throughout the season.

veronica and her father vs jughead and his, in the ways they navigate the societal games that feel so disparate from one another but will ultimately, i’m sure, meet in the mobs v. gangs mouth of cultural ouroboros.

[x]

and so, to bring this whole point together, i see it more likely that as jughead realizes he wants out of the serpents, veronica realizes she wants to go deeper into the family business—or that she too has no other option but for it. 

(crime_jazz.mp3)