#that also applies to japanese fandom

[bancaishi]

didn't want to put this rant in the tags of that last post but honestly i feel like a lot of people hate toshiro disproportionately compared to what he actually did in-story. and if we're being real it's most likely because of racism

[thorntopieces]

"they're basically the same person" except the different names growing up in different countries knowing different people having entirely different childhoods and circumstances and hobbies and personalities and appearances and fashion and-

sigh

[drawnaghht]

yokai and ninja (and other words)

btw! some helpful info for writing tmnt and UY/SRTUC fic!

both yokai, samurai and ninja are already plural words and japanese as a language doesn't really have plural in the same sense as english... so imo adding the -s of plural just complicates the thing, even just to "localize it"...

it'd be almost like saying.... dogs's. or cars-s. like almost double double or moon moon, tea tea situation haha x3

same goes for other japanese loanwords we like using in our japanese culture inspired fic/fancomics and other fanworks... sai, kunai, kunoichi, kage-musha etc

or even simple every-day words like sushi, haiku, manga, ramen.... you don't just put an s at the end and call it a day. "I'll have a tray of 8 sushi" but not "I'll have 8 sushis" - like it just sounds bad to anyone who has heard more japanese or heard more loanwords in english. like it's not a big problem if you accidentally did! it's ok, you didn't know. but take this as a bit of info to use in your fic. For example, characters who have grown up closer to japanese culture, or just using these words all the time, might not change them into EN plural. but characters who have no idea or learned plural forms for these living in a different cultural setting, might. take this with a grain of salt, but it just sounds better when the -s is not there for certain words :'D

(there's probably many exceptions that have been made in past translations, as usually over time, loanwords become sorta "localized" more, but i'm sticking to this myself just cuz it's something I learned a long time ago abt these words + it just seems like these stories and characters can be a bit closer to how real-life E-J bilingual folk would use these words)

[savcir-faire]

who will punish english localization and subtitling teams for removing japanese honorifics and terms of endearment in the media i consume!!!!!! the subtext an interpersonal dynamics that have been obliterated by having everyone address one another by their first name is unforgivable!!!!! there is nothing more delicious than when a character is pissed off and suddenly changes their form of address from firstname-kun to surname-san!!!! except maybe the thrill of when an excessively formal character accidentally reveals their affection for another character by calling them by their first name no honorific!!!

it’s pride and prejudice without the hand flex!!! it’s succession written by **r*n s*rk*n!!!! you have stolen my joy and my peace and you will pay!!!!

[kathaynesart]

Have some Replica Leo for Round 2 of the @tmntfashioncompetition! This time the theme is: "Traditional Garment." I’ll be up against @villainleoau and I’m nervous cuz that’s a STELER crew and some of the most talented artists in the fandom (also their fashion sense is off the charts)!

For the art I decided to lean into some traditional Japanese attire and a prosthetic more befitting of the era. Originally I was just going to have Leo's missing arm be covered, but if he wants to be truly capable with a katana he'd need something to help keep the sheath affixed when removing his sword. This is especially necessary for duels, since the speed and pressure applied from the drawing of the sword are imperative. I imagine he has several more varying tools he can screw onto his arm in the little side pack. Also note, the Kanji means "ninja" or "ninpo" and the finer hiragana text is the infamous "You are not alone" line. I had a lot of fun with this one, trying to decide if maybe I should put it up for print.

Some of my inspo under the cut:

[ohnoitstbskyen]

I deleted the ask, but someone wrote one basically saying "why do you post reaction videos to Helluva Boss? Don't you know the show exploits its workers and they're overworked and get burned out?"

And, I mean, I love your energy, person who asked, definitely hold on to those values and speak up about this. But also, I am afraid I might have some bad news for you about literally the whole entire animation industry.

As near as I can make out from the sparse journalistic reporting that's been done on SpindleHorse -- and as a sidebar, please for the love of god read actual reporting about these things and not just callout posts and fandom discourse -- as near as I can make out, SpindleHorse as a studio is neither all that much better nor all that much worse than basically anywhere else in the industry on their level. It seems like it is (or was? Hazbin Hotel seems to be run differently) a studio mostly run by contracting people on a project-by-project basis, which leads to a crapton of turnover, and a huge need for organizing and onboarding, which according to the reporting I have read, the producers and freelancers have struggled to balance and manage properly, which has negatively impacted a number of the workers.

Top that with the usual catty, clique-based backbiting, sniping and poorly managed conflict resolution that's just kinda endemic in creative environments mostly staffed by twentysomethings and stressed out freelancers, and you have the recipe for a workplace where a lot of people are going to have a great time and feel creatively fulfilled, and a lot of people are going to come away feeling justifiably burnt the fuck out and exploited.

All of this is... not especially unusual for the animation industry, or indeed for any creative industry. Which is not to say that it is good, or that it should be allowed to be normal, or that it shouldn't be reported on and criticized (and please for the love of god support unionization efforts because that's the only thing that will actually address these kinds of systemic problems). It's just to say that if those kinds of issues are the line in the sand you draw where you refuse to engage with a studio's output...

Then, for starters, say goodbye to basically all of anime, because the Japanese animation industry is actively in a state of crisis trying to recruit new talent because its working conditions and pay are so astonishingly abysmal. And the horror stories that escape from that industry make the issues at SpindleHorse look like summer camp at times.

But you also have to say goodbye to a lot of American and European animation. Please do not imagine that Disney and its subcontractors, or that Nickelodeon or Warner Bros, are benevolent employers. They exploit their staff brutally and are currently trying to crush the labor value of animation with threats of generative AI being used to replace jobs. But those corporations also have extremely well-funded PR departments and the ability to silence employees with NDAs and threats of blackballing, so you don't get to hear as many of the horror stories as you might from a smaller independent studio that's less able to silence criticism by holding people's careers hostage.

All of this is to say that 1) it's valid and important to have criticism of both large and small-scale animation studios, and to keep the well-being and happiness of the workers higher in your priorities than the output of Products™.

And 2) if you're going to have a principle for what kinds of problems make a studio's output morally untouchable for you, and what kinds of problems you think should make a studio's output untouchable to other people, you do need to apply that principle consistently to the entire industry, and not just to the independent animation studio that happens to be surrounded by the internet's most inflammatory fandom discourse.

If you don't apply that principle consistently, maybe don't send reproachful messages to strangers scolding them for not living up to your standards, and even if you do apply that principle consistently, maybe still don't do that, because it's mostly quite annoying, and doesn't really do anything to support animation workers struggling for better working conditions.

The Animation Guild in the US is currently in the middle of a bargaining process with their industry, and they have a social media press kit as well as relevant talking points on their website which you can use to post in solidarity with the workers. If it comes to a full industry strike, consider donating to their strike funds to help them maintain pressure. Outside of the US, try and find out what (if any) local unions exist for animation workers, and maybe sign up to their mailing lists. They will let you know what kind of support they need from you.

[deliriumzer0]

Figured I'd address this since it's come up, and since I have life experience that educated my decision here.

So first off, this post was made a couple days after Ranboo left the mall. There was never any chance of him being at risk from stalkers or fans camping the area.

By that point, Vinny Vinesauce had already made his vlog talking about making the show, where he walks thru the mall and specifically says where it is.

At the Vidcon panel, ages later, I learned that JK productions & the team (a vague "we") aren't allowed to say what mall it is. And I was not surprised. There are plenty of functional reasons for that, not the least of which is because urban explorers put themselves at risk all the time exploring abandoned malls, and fans coming to this mall could be in very real danger from worn-out electrics, squatters, and its part-time use by police for training exercises.

For legal liability reasons, staff of JK productions (and likely also Ranboo) could NEVER reblog this post or make a post of a similar nature. They'd get in a LOT of trouble for potentially enabling dangerous behavior.

But for the rest of us? We're fine.

Also putting this on tumblr was no mistake. Could it have been a twitter thread? Sure. But on twitter, I'm still a lowly pleb limited to 280 characters. A tweet leading off the thread would likely be very short and sound like I'm only saying where the mall is (since the images, the point of the thread, would be buried behind a click), thus making it sound like I am endorsing a visit. I AM NOT.

The purpose of this post is basically historical trivia. What role has this mall played in the past. I'm the kind of person who finds that sort of history important. And, crucially, I revealed no new information here -- I never went to this mall personally, didn't take any photos there, never went there as a kid, never talked to JK or heard from them where this mall was. This post genuinely didn't take me much work to compile, I did it between meetings during one single workday. I was able to ID the mall based on the tile pattern on the floor because I happened to remember it from the Fleabitten Adventures video, which was new-ish and fairly fresh in my mind. That's the only thing that put me ahead of anyone else here.

THIS POST IS NOT A SUGGESTION OR ENDORSEMENT FOR PEOPLE TO VISIT THE MALL. Please do not. It would be very dangerous.

Also, a note to prev and others: Don't forget that tumblr reblogging expands the reach of a post. More people see it. Reblogging to say "maybe this post is bad" is sometimes counterproductive to your goals. If you're worried about info in a tumblr post being out there, it's probably better to respond with a comment or an ask, not a reblog. (Which one person did when the post was new.)

Gen Loss' shooting location

I'm super into dead/dying malls so I knew what mall it was as soon as I saw the ending of Ep 2, but I didn't wanna post anything about it until after Ranboo had left NY just in case. I'm not about to facilitate any creepy behavior, you know?

So GenLoss was filmed at the now-closed Galleria at White Plains, which -- fun fact! -- is the same mall used for interior mall shots in the movie Eighth Grade (so everyone who enjoys Ranboo/Bo Burnham connections, there's a fun one!). It opened in 1980 and positioned itself as the mall for "normal" people, in contrast to the more upscale Westchester mall nearby. Sadly, that other mall is still alive & kicking, while this one was closed at the end of March 2023. There are apparently redevelopment plans in the works to turn it into mixed-use (retail + residential) space.

I was too curious about what some of the stores used in the shoot used to be, and how much of what I saw in GL was set design and how much was already in place, so I looked up old directories & photos of the mall to see if I could sleuth some of it out. In case anyone else was curious about the set designers' work, or is into retail history, I figured I would share my findings!

The central elevator area of the mall in GenLoss, and how it appeared in 2019. (Screenshot from the 2019 video linked below)

Apologies for the multiple different angles on this one, but this is all the same area, first in GenLoss (right after Ranboo starts walking away from the panel where Hetch is appearing), then from the Fleabitten Adventures 2023 video, then from the Raw & Real Retail video from 2019. (Couldn't resist screenshotting the drone ad on that last one, lol)

In the GenLoss screenshot, at the far right edge of the Sears entryway, you can see a bit of the painting left behind, so my guess is the GL set decorators got rid of that artwork for the shoot.

The screen where Ranboo first speaks to Hetch in ep 3. The empty store behind them was an American Eagle Outfitters at one point, but it was already closed by February 2023. (screeenshot from Fleabitten Adventures 2023 video)

Here's a before & after of this directory panel. (Screenshot from the Fleabitten Adventures 2023 video)

The store full of "props". In the original store photo (Google's only photo of this shop), you can see how the existing shelves were repurposed for GL. Also way at the far end of the store there's a black & white photo of someone with a basketball that was left hanging up.

I had a hard time finding a closer angle of this Victoria's Secret, but in case you were curious, here's one from the Raw & Real Retail video lol.

Where Ranboo almost left but Hetch stopped them: a Kay Jewelers.

The streamers are sitting in the following establishments: My Kitchen, Bourbon Street Cafe, Sarku Japan, Dunkin' Donuts, and of course Charley's. The last empty storefront was a Burger King before it emptied out. (Photo from Foursquare, cropped by me)

The Dental & Foot Care storefront is unchanged except for the seating out in the open area. It was a rounded wooden bench set as of Feb 2023 (screenshot from the Fleabitten Adventures video), but for GL it was the standard metal benches found throughout the mall. Not sure why.

Going far back enough, this was a Radio Shack. Couldn't find ANY photos of this particular location though, so here's the only photo I could find of what it was in the interim: a dress shop called Gloria's. (Photo from Yelp)

This one is my favorite part. :) As of February 2023 (screenshots are from the Fleabitten Adventures video), the "Heart of the Facility" is this weirdly sparse artsy furniture store called Home Splash. But before this, what the shop's facade was designed for, was...

A Charlotte Russe location. Ranboo died in a fucking Charlotte Russe. When I learned this, I could not stop laughing.

More/Sources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/deadmalls/comments/zupwhw/the_galleria_at_white_plains_ny_in_late_afternoon/

A great youtube video from Fleabitten Adventures walking through the whole mall in February 2023

Raw & Real Retail walkthrough video (from 2019)

A shorter walthrough video from HELLOTHISIS4U

Photos from FourSquare

I didn't cover everything I learned here, just the stuff I thought was coolest (and that I had images of), so please feel free to flood my ask box with questions about what certain things used to be!

[scourgeofmyownbrain]

Only one guy on here has two eyes, and even then, they're fake eyes. It's big-tits-McGee, Mr. logic man extraordinaire, Geneva Suggestion Believer himself: Shockwave! Yep, all 12 of him, a reasonable amount of alternates to have, unlike some people... Shockwave Height Chart, everyone, fuckin wee.

Edit: I didn't like the old scaling I had so I changed it. The old chart is at the end of this post.

Quick Disclaimer, if any of the images look weird, it's because I had to stitch a few separate images together to create a full body shot of the character.

Here are links to my Bumblebee Chart, my Optimus Chart, my Megatron Chart, and my Soundwave Chart. !!NEW!! -> Ratchet & Ironhide. Please go gawk at how many Optimus designs there are, sweet fuck, there are so many. For future reference, all these charts will be filed under my "Transformers Height Charts" tag and my "aka the adventures of a..." tag.

Explanations and Sources below the cut.

Unicron Trilogy Energon - ~14 feet 3 inches (No actual source, and Energon doesn't have any listed heights anywhere. For the uneducated, the Unicron Trilogy has given each of its 3 seasons separate names and 3 separate art styles. This is the design used in Energon (S2) though he only shows up in Energon. I was able to compare him to Optimus, and using Cybertron's listed heights, I got this number. I am in physical pain, it does not get better from here. Hilarious side note, his Japanese name is Laserwave, which contains the missing "wave" of Shockwave in this iteration's name.)

Earth Spark - ~15 feet (No actual source for ES, but using a barn door to get Bumblebee's height, then Optimus's, then Megatron's height, I was able to make a guess at Shockwave's. Shockwave comes up to about Megatron's chin; I lost the screenshot I used. It's so convoluted, I know, but it's all I have, also, tiny universe, everyone is so small)

TFA Longarm/V1 - 15 feet 2 inches (Animated has no actual numbers, but the lovely @phoenix-inanis has provided a frankly astounding resource with their own calculations for the heights of all the TFA characters. Go look at it, it's wonderful -> https://phoenix-inanis.notion.site/TFA-Height-Chart-f6ad2960ca8c4c5b859ee4958723aaa4?pvs=4)

Gen 1 - ~18 feet (TFWiki, uuuuh I've got nothing to add)

Netflix Cybertron Trilogy - ~18 feet (I have no source for this, other than assuming that because this design is identical to Gen 1, they are the same height. That's it, really)

Knight/Capel-Verse - ~18 feet (No source, and he never stands next to anyone I can measure him against, but because the TFOne director has said that this movie is both canon to the LA movies and its own separate canon, I am assuming the height I figured out for TFOne applies to this universe as well. Until proven otherwise. Capel directed the ROTB movie if you're wondering why his name is there)

One - ~18 feet (No source, I got this number by comparing him to Optimus. Now, I am aware of the TFO heights listed on the wiki, but I reject those numbers on principal. A: Those numbers are sourced from the Walmart Promotional AR Experience that came out before the movie. B: There are three decimal points, and that number does not convert into a whole number in meters (which is originally what I thought was weird about it). C: The director has said that this movie is both canon to the LA movies and its own separate canon, so I have elected to use the few given heights we have from KCV and worked from there. My Optimus post has slightly more context if you want it)

Cyberverse - 20 feet (This comes from a screenshot of this video which has the Cyberverse height chart everyone uses, though the quality of the screenshot is iffy.)

Aligned Cont. WF/FOC/TFP - 26 feet 2 inches (This number comes from Fandom and I completely believe it, even if they don't list their source, because the entirety of this universe is freakishly tall. Go look at my other charts, all the ALC designs are monstrous compared to the others)

TFA V2 - 29 feet 11 inches (Once again, phoenix-inanis did a fuck ton of work, go look at it, it's wonderful -> https://phoenix-inanis.notion.site/TFA-Height-Chart-f6ad2960ca8c4c5b859ee4958723aaa4?pvs=4)

Bayverse - ~30 feet (Ok, so I don't have a source for this one. There used to be one, BV Shockwave used to be listed as 40 feet tall bc of an article done to promote the movie, but that is no longer listed for reasons not known to me, and making some comparisons to Optimus, I have found them to be kinda close in height. It's very hard to actually validate any of this. Shockwave never stands normally next to anything I can use as a ruler at any point in the movie. He's always at a dramatic angle or partially covered by something in the shot. It's so violently frustrating. I am confident he is around this height though, I just can't figure out how much taller than Optimus he is)

And that's it. I didn't have to leave any designs out, all of them are included here (hopefully). It was so nice to work with a character where I wasn't drowning in 20+ designs across every goddamn universe.

Edit: Here are the different layers separated.

vvv Old scale vvv

[stormsbourne]

alright listen

I know we're all having an evaluation of how eagerly we believe people who present with even the slightest air of authority and frankly good! we all need to be less credulous of people on the internet who tell lies.

but I think there are also other lessons to learn from james somerton. namely about his raging and blatant misogyny, which I've often seen similar forms of in fandom and on this specific site. to paraphrase bombs himself in the ctrl alt del video, if you see shitty behavior within your sphere, it's important to recognize it and try to fix it instead of rejecting it and asserting that no REAL members of the ingroup are like that. and nerds have a misogyny problem. including tumblr. so let's reckon with it.

do you append "white" or "straight" to your comments about women even when those things have little to do with the topic being discussed, just to make your comments seem more legit? (and no, m/m shipping discourse does not give you a ticket to say it's all straight women -- it's fictional characters, james.) do you often theorize about how (hurriedly appended "straight/white/cis") women are responsible for a problem in fandom, nay, all problems in fandom? have you made up a guy based on a single post that annoyed you and extrapolated to say that all (appended signifier to make it ok) women in fandom are like that? do you see women as uniquely fetishizing, uniquely stupid about politics or social issues, uniquely annoying to talk to? do you assume when there's an issue, even a real one and not the fake ones james made up, that a woman is probably at the root of it?

all of this still applies to you if you're a woman. it also applies if you're gay or a person of color or trans. being an oppressed group doesn't mean you are immune from sexism, and sexism is still rampant in everyday life for pretty much everyone.

your shipping and fandom discourse isn't immune from this. no, I'm not talking about how not enough people like yuri. I'm talking about how women who like "bad" ships like r*ylo or whatever are seen as open targets for harassment. how women who are into "bad/problematic" fandoms are seen as idiots and enablers who deserve what they get. how there's an attitude that women who like shitty bad porn must think it's good, must be too stupid to know better, and must need to be handheld and taught about good, acceptable fiction. I've already talked a lot about tumblr's complete refusal to admit that fujoshi wasn't a term coined by delicate japanese mlm to complain about evil women (and I wonder if james contributed to that idiotic concept), but the way I've seen people assert that women into m/m must be straight, must be stupid, must be lying about their identities, must be hurting gay men in real life in addition to wanting some anime boys to kiss ...

I've seen how some of you people talk about amb*r h*ard, is all I'm saying, and I've seen what you've tried to do to dozens of female creatives that, for some reason, you've decided deserve to be taken down or taught a lesson. I've seen the descriptions you use. shrieking, bitchy, whiny, uppity, shrewish, karen (don't get me started on how karen has been turned into an easy excuse for misogyny). you're not bystanders to what james did and is doing, you're a part of it. sure, you might not have the nazi fetish, but you've said things about women that put somerton to shame.

just a thing to keep in mind while the plagiarism discourse is ongoing. somerton is a shithead for many reasons but this is one that's important to remember because I think people often treat misogyny like a lesser crime, a smaller concern, and it's not. just think of what laws are passing and what views popular movements have of women and then, for one moment, consider that maybe your reflexive need to blame women or pick them apart might have been influenced by the Society In Which We Live.

[downtofragglerock]

So Godzilla, being film franchise that dates back to the 20th century, understandably lacks a large female cast, I wanted to see how many female kaiju the series actually has, but while thinking this over an interesting thought occurred

Japanese, as a language, has some differences regarding pronouns compared to English, and a lot of Kaiju get referred to in much more gender neutral language in original Japanese than they do in English, this has resulted in some interesting fan interpretations over the years regarding the genders of kaiju, and you bet I'm going to catalogue the ones I've encountered

Starting off, the explicitly canon female kaiju of the Godzilla cast:

Mothra

Biollante

Zilla (I think the movie tried to deny it, but the cartoon confirmed it, although final wars zilla is another question)

Megaguirus

Monsterverse actually brings a number of explicitly female kaiju into the fold including:

The female Muto from 2k14

Barb, the other female Muto

Scylla

Tiamat

Na Kika (formerly Kraken)

Shimo

Phosphera

Some of the other unseen titans from King of the Monsters might also be ladies, but given as they are still unseen, that's just blind speculation

Now we get to the interesting part, the fan interpretations

Manda, Kumonga, and Destoroyah all being female is a pretty common and old fan interpretation, I know from firsthand experience that it at least dates back to the 2000s, but it could even be older

Baragon by comparison is far more recent, and I know for a fact this interpretation can be sourced primarily to the fact that in GMK, Baragon's performer was Rie Ota, and a behind the scenes clip of her doing the roars in the suit made waves around the fandom and even outside it in the 2010s

Hedorah is another more recent one, but interestingly enough I've also seen enby, bigender, and genderfluid interpretations of Hedorah as well. I guess there's something about the smog monster that screams gender to fans

Titanosaurus is again a newer interpretation, but fascinatingly a even newer idea has popped up in the past couple years that Titanosaurus is the kaiju equivalent of a femboy twink

Rodan being female is a very interesting case, both in origin and mainly due to the fact it only really applies to the Showa continuity and various fan continuities that desire. Basically the origin of this is that in the original 1956 film Rodan, there are two Rodans, a mating pair. At the end they both fall into Mt. Aso. When Rodan reemerges from Mt. Aso in Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, there's only one. There's been speculation for years as to the origin of this Rodan, but for the longest time it was either assumed to be the male or somehow the child of the pair from the original movie. But in 2010s a new idea rose to greater prominence: What if the Rodan that survived and subsequently appeared in the rest of the Showa films was the female of the pair?

Battra is an uncommon interpretation, but I have observed it

@lydiathespiderqueen did some fanart of a female version of Toho's Frankenstein, as well as the Gargantuas, and it's really good

and @thesilkenlair did a compelling analysis of Spacegodzilla being female due to possessing physical characteristics of Biollante, as well as their behavior in the movie lining up disturbingly well with a phenomenon in nature where an animal will kill or try to kill the extant children of a prospective mate so undivided attention can be given to it and any potential offspring it may have

And that's all I've encountered, please do tell if I've missed some

[russenoire]

it's not just white fans of asian media who make this assumption. i think this is mostly an american thing?

If we’re airing out the incomprehensible tagging practices, my favorite are authors who put “POC character” on fics in (fantasy) China, (fantasy) Japan and (fantasy) India fandoms. I mean. Yes? Characters from media from predominantly non-white countries do tend to be non-white? And even if it’s to attract readers who want to read fandom-blind about POC characters… I don’t think such readers are actually looking for anime twinks and Shah Rukh Khan?? Or if they are, I don’t think they're so dumb as not to know anime and Bollywood fandoms exist?? Why put that tag in a fandom where ALL the characters and their entire world is Not White and were never made with any white audience in mind even??

--

[room-surprise]

IS LAIOS A FURRY? AN ANALYSIS.

(Laios imagining himself transforming into a wolf in Marcille's mindscape.)

(SPOILER WARNING FOR THE ENTIRE MANGA! This is an excerpt and elaboration from The Essay about cultural and linguistic references in Dungeon Meshi)

WHAT IS A FURRY?

The furry fandom is a subculture interested in anthropomorphic animal characters. Some examples of anthropomorphic attributes can include human intelligence and facial expressions, speaking, walking on two legs, and wearing clothes, but not all of these traits must be present at the same time. Warrior Cats, The Lion King, Zootopia and Sonic the Hedgehog all have huge furry fandoms, to give a few examples.

Many furry fans feel a deep connection to these characters and desire to “become” one through designing their fantasy alter-egos (a furry persona, or fursona), making artwork, role-playing, and if they can afford it, building and wearing costumes called fursuits that allow them to dress up as their fursona in real life.

(Laios' ultimate monster design, you could argue this is his fursona that he's been dreaming about, and refining since childhood.)

Ryoko Kui self-identified as a furry on her blog a long time ago, saying that she “was a furry in high school.” I’ve been unable to track down the original artwork or blog post that states this in order to cite it properly, but I think by looking at Kui’s extensive history, interest, and skill in drawing animals, monsters, and anthropomorphic characters, one can clearly see the “furry” influence.

She has a very clear interest in the intersection between humans and animals, several of her characters are furry characters, and a lot of her work appeals strongly to furry fans in ways that work made by non-furries often does not. She even makes an extremely specific joke about the Japanese furry subculture in a comic about Lycion and Laios arguing about authenticity, which I will get to in a moment.

But whether or not Kui has ever considered herself a furry, I think it’s safe to say that she’s on the internet enough that she must be aware of the subculture, and so it’s possible that she wrote Laios with that in mind.

Laios’ intense desire to become a monster, the way he repeatedly fantasizes about being a dog or wolf, his fascination with all animals (but especially monsters), his skill at drawing animals (and lack of skill in drawing people, or anything else), his interest in becoming a beast-man, and his desire to visit a kobold country because they look like dog-people, all paint a very vivid picture of his interests, and his experiences match up astonishingly well with the experiences of many people who identify as furries.

Western fans often call Laios as a “furry,” or a “monster fucker” mostly as a joke, however I think this should be taken as seriously as interpreting him as asexual or autistic, which are other labels fandom commonly applies to him in a more serious manner… And, incidentally, there is a great deal of overlap between the autistic, asexual and furry communities, so if Laios is one of these things, it’s also very possible that he’s some of the others, too… Even if Kui didn’t intend it, and simply modeled Laios after “some people she’s known” without realizing they were furries, autistic, or asexual, or any combination of the three. This happens frequently in fiction.

I think the most accurate broad labels for Laios would be “therian” and “monster fetishist,” because I believe these two terms encompass the canonical behavior we see from him in the manga and extra materials in a way that I think “furry” and “monster fucker” do not.

JAPANESE FURRY FANDOM: KEMONO VS. KEMONOMIMI

Japanese furries use the terms kemonā (ケモナー) to describe themselves, or kemono (ケモノ) to describe the characters they create and love. Both words mean “furry,” as in, covered in fur.

In the What-If comic where Lycion and Laios meet, Laios awkwardly says that Lycion isn’t a real furry because turning into a beast-man didn’t change him into a wolf on the inside.

“Isn’t that just like wearing a pair of animal ears on a headband and saying you’re a beast-man?” Laios asks, to which Lycion derisively tells Laios that he is just a “beast-man wannabe” or “poseur.”

This is a direct reference to one of the major conflicts in the Japanese Kemono fandom: are characters who are mostly human, but have animal ears and tails really kemono, or do they not count? The general consensus in the fandom is that ears and tail alone are insufficient; these characters are called kemonomimi, literally “beast ears”, like the headband Laios references. Most “cat-girl” characters fall into this category.

A real kemono character includes a muzzle instead of a normal human face and/or an animal-like appearance on the body surface, such as fur, scales, or feathers. According to researcher Inokuchi Tomohiro, this is due to the recognition that "disconnection from humans" is a crucial factor that distinguishes between kemono and non-kemono. He then defines kemono as "an animal that is depicted as a non-human being, but with the potential for mutual understanding/communication with humans.”

By this definition, Izutsumi in Dungeon Meshi is a kemono (furry) and not a kemonomimi (cat-girl), since her body is covered in fur, and she doesn’t have human breasts, but a more beast-like torso. The Winged Lion, the Goat, Kuro the kobold, and possibly the orcs are all kemono (anthropomorphic animal) characters as well.

IS LAIOS A THERIAN?

Though the terminology is very modern, and wouldn’t exist in the Dungeon Meshi setting, it’s possible that if Laios existed in the modern world he might identify as a type of Otherkin known as a Therian. Otherkin and Therians are sometimes part of the Furry fandom, but the two subcultures do not overlap completely.

Otherkin are a subculture of people who identify as nonhuman. Some Otherkin believe their identity derives from spiritual phenomena (such as possessing a nonhuman soul, reincarnation, or the will of God), ancestry, symbolism, or metaphor. Others attribute it to unusual psychology or neurodivergence and do not hold spiritual beliefs on the subject.

Therian refers to people who identify specifically as a real animal of the natural world. The species of animal a therian identifies as is called a theriotype. Therians mainly attribute their experiences of therianthropy to either spirituality or psychology, and often use the term "species dysphoria" to describe their feelings of disconnect from their human bodies and their underlying desire to live as their theriotype. The identity "trans species" is used by some.

Therians may seek out opportunities to perform species-affirming acts like wearing costumes, adopting animal-like behaviors such as making species-specific noises, eating species-specific foods, or moving/performing actions that their theriotype would do.

For example, someone with a horse theriotype may experience joy from snorting and neighing, pulling a cart, stomping their feet, or having a vegetarian diet. Someone with a shark theriotype may want to swim every chance they get, or enjoy eating a lot of raw fish. They may have special accessories they like to wear that make them feel connected to their theriotype, like animal ears on a headband, an actual animal’s tail or a symbolic tail hanging from their belt, an animal tooth necklace, or even just a t-shirt that has an image of their theriotype on it.

In Laios’ case, we know that he likes to imagine himself as a wolf, and in the real world he enjoys/is proud of his ability to bark and move like a dog. He’s practiced and performed this dog impression so often and so well that Falin thinks it’s his most noteworthy and amazing skill. He clearly holds hunting dogs in high esteem and admires them, and says that he learned many important life lessons from spending time with them. He enjoys playing with leftovers from monsters they kill (bones, skin, seeds, fur, etc.) and sometimes tries to collect them for either practical or sentimental reasons… And at the end of the manga he takes the pelt of his ultimate monster form and chooses to wear it as a cape, something that he continues to do for the rest of his life, possibly just because he likes to wear it, or because wearing it eases the pain of no longer being the ultimate monster.

It’s also possible that he’s only wearing it because he thinks it is a pragmatic, politically expedient move, but I think Kui very clearly communicates to us that Laios likes his monster cape, and it is the one thing he immediately thinks of when he wants to try and be king “on his own terms.” He’s willing to accept being king… if he can wear his monster cape. Whether or not it’s a good idea to wear it is secondary to the fact that he wants to do it.

Otherkin and Therian are of course both modern names for this phenomenon, but the concept of people strongly identifying with and being fascinated by animals is as old as humankind itself, so it isn’t impossible that Laios may feel this way, since so much of his behavior overlaps with things a Therian might do or feel.

MONSTER FETISHISM

In English, the word fetish originally described an object believed to have supernatural powers. Fetishes are often used in a spiritual or religious context. However, over time the word fetish has been used so frequently as a euphemism to describe a type of unconventional sexual interest that “sexual fetish” has become the primary meaning of “fetish” in English.

Fetishism is a sexual fixation on an activity, inanimate object, living thing, or human body part that is not normally involved in sex. The object of this interest is called the fetish; the person who has a fetish for that object is a fetishist. The current medical consensus is that sexual fetishes are very common, and as long as they do not negatively impact a person’s life, they are harmless.

Like the English word fetish, the Japanese word 趣味 (shumi), has multiple meanings, such as “hobby”, “interests/tastes”, but it is also used euphemistically to refer to “sexual taste, vice, or fetish.” What meaning is intended must be intuited by the context surrounding the word. I believe the other words used to discuss fetishes are the loan words フェティッシュ (fetisshu) or フェチ (fechi), but these are extremely blunt and direct, and shumi is preferred in situations where polite euphemism, ambiguity or plausible deniability is desired, or is perhaps even necessary in order to make a joke.

Shumi is used throughout Dungeon Meshi to describe various people’s interests, including Laios’ interest in monsters.

Meanwhile Namari’s interest in race-specific weapons and gear is never explicitly identified as shumi as far as I’m aware, but she is called 武器マニア (weapon maniac) in the World Guide, and in the Bicorn chapter, Chilchuck labels her as 武具フェチ (armor/weapon fetishist), and uses the English loan word フェチ (fechi) which is very unambiguously “fetish.”

(The official English translation from Yen Press changed this to “armor fiend.”)

It seems odd to me that Namari’s interest in weapons and gear is identified by most readers (though not Yen Press) as a fetish, but Laios’ interest in monsters isn’t always, when their behavior around their special interest is shown to be the same in the manga:

Both Namari and Laios blush while talking about their respective interests, and get embarrassed and/or excited about the subject. In the post-canon comics, Laios blushes, hides his face, and has to be prodded to confess to Yaad, Kabru and Marcille that he wants to have his body eaten by monsters when he dies. He obviously finds the idea embarrassing and titillating somehow, and is too shy to admit it out loud until they force him to do it. He also blushes on several other occasions in the manga while thinking or talking about monsters.

I think this is because having a “weapons fetish” is normalized: many people have a fetish for weapons or armor and find it sexy. However the idea of a monster fetish makes people uncomfortable because in a story were monsters exist and are a type of animal, they assume Laios having a monster fetish must mean he wants to participate in bestiality.

This is not necessarily true. A fetish of this nature can (and most often does, for reasons of morality and safety) exist entirely in the realm of imagination, and the sexual fixation may not even involve the act of having sex with the fetish object.

WHAT IS A MONSTER FETISH?

In a world where monsters exist, a monster fetish could involve a sexual interest in the sight, smell, sound and feeling of a monster (looking at or creating artwork of monsters, observing monsters in the wild, wearing a monster costume, or owning monster pelts or body parts that can be safely touched, smelled, etc.), the experience of hunting monsters, eating monsters, the fantasy of being a monster, or the fantasy of performing sexual acts with or as a monster.

The fantasy element could be Laios simply wanting to be a monster, and that giving him sexual gratification without any further scenario being necessary, or it could be imagining himself as a human having sex with a monster, imagining himself as a monster having sex with another monster, or imagining himself as a monster having sex with a human.

All of these possible scenarios would fit under the “monster fetish” umbrella. We know Laios canonically does at least six out of these eight things, but we don’t know whether or not he derives sexual pleasure from them… However, we do know that talking or thinking about monsters makes Laios blush in a way that interacting with other human beings does not, and blushing is often a sign of intense emotion or sexual arousal. Kui’s meaning is intentionally ambiguous, but both meanings should be acknowledged: Laios might be emotionally excited, or he might be sexually excited and Kui is leaving it up to us to decide which it is.

This is, specifically, why I think “monster fucker” isn’t an accurate label. We don’t have enough evidence to assume Laios wants to have sex with monsters, or for monsters to have sex with him. All we can tell is that he becomes excited by the subject of monsters, and often times it is specifically the idea of eating them or being eaten by them that gets him the most excited.

VORAREPHILIA

Because so much of Laios' interest in monsters revolves around eating them and being eaten by them, and Dungeon Meshi's plot revolves around the very concept of eating and being eaten, let me make a brief side-bar to discuss the extremely popular, but niche furry sub-culture of vorarephilia.

Vorarephilia is often used as the butt of jokes on the internet, and very poorly understood by most people, so I felt taking a moment to explain it would be beneficial. Most people are probably not even aware that a fetish like this exists, and therefore aren't able to identify that the things Laios is interested in are something he shares with an entire subculture of real people.

Vorarephilia is a fetish that revolves around the fantasy of devouring or being devoured by another person or creature. The prey can either be swallowed whole and alive, or killed and then eaten... But the former is vastly more popular, and most fetishists imagine themselves as the prey, not the predator.

The fantasy of being eaten or eating someone else is just an extreme form of power exchange. Since vore is an impossible fetish in the real world, it exists entirely as artwork, writing, or verbal role play.

Like in most sex practices, the majority of people want to be the submissive partner, and have someone else do the work of pleasing them. You could compare the "predator" in a vorarephilia roleplay session to a "dom" and the "prey" to a "sub" in BDSM. Incidentally, most predators identify as women, and the vast majority of prey identify as men.

Kui's personal work seems to involve some themes that are similar to vorarephillic art.

And Dungeon Meshi features a lot of content which appeals to vorarephiles.

Meanwhile, the many tiny Laioses being eaten by the Ultimate Monster is a classic example of Macro/Micro, another niche furry sub-culture that sometimes overlaps with vore... A giant monster eating mouthful after mouthful of tiny humans is a classic theme.

The vore fandom is extremely diverse, some of them are furries, others are not, and the exact element of devouring and being devoured that appeals to every one of them can be totally different.

What the demon does to Mithrun and Thistle, and Laios does to the demon, is specifically a fetish called "soul vore", where someone's personhood/soul/awareness is eaten and (usually) destroyed by the predator via some kind of "digestion"... Often while the prey is conscious and aware of the process.

For many, the fear and pain the prey experiences while dying is essential to their enjoyment... And remember, most people want to imagine themselves as the prey!

The art on these pages is indistinguishable from things you would pay thousands of dollars for if you hired a furry artist to draw them.

It's also very important to note that on the other end of the spectrum, some vore fantasies revolve around the prey wanting to be loved by someone so much that they would devour them completely, so that they can absorb the prey and keep them with them forever.

Sometimes it's about wanting to become part of something greater that the prey admires or idealizes… the way Laios admires monsters. He explicitly states that when he dies, he wants to become a part of the food chain… While blushing furiously.

And although it isn't about Laios, I think it's important to note that Mithrun's desire was for the demon to finish eating him. A key part of his depression is the fact that he felt he wasn't good enough to consume, that the demon didn't love him enough to want to eat all of him.

I won't go further into vore or macro/micro, because I want to keep this post as simple as possible, and it's already quite long... But if one wanted to dig even deeper into what specifically Laios' interests are, beyond the very broad umbrella of "monster fetishism", I think vorarephelia would be worth considering.

DO OTHER CHARACTERS THINK LAIOS HAS A FETISH?

Characters frequently notice that Laios gets very excited when he’s talking about monsters: he talks louder and faster, his pupils dilate, he blushes, and he forgets what he’s doing, where he is, and what the appropriate behavior for his situation is. This behavior almost universally causes other characters to react with intense scorn, disgust and disapproval.

I don’t think it makes sense for everyone in the manga to react as negatively as they do to Laios’ behavior unless they think there is something off-putting, unsavory, or creepy about it. Their reactions mean they must think Laios’ interest isn’t innocent. It isn’t just a hobby, but of course none of them will say this explicitly, it would be much too direct and rude, and also it wouldn’t be funny if they started accusing Laios of wanting to participate in something as horrible as bestiality.

Part of the joke Kui is frequently making is that nobody says what they’re thinking out loud. For example, at the end of the manga, Kabru gives Laios a disgusted look and warns him to “not talk about your hobby (shumi)” while addressing the participants of the feast. I think we can intuit that hobby/shumi in this instance is probably meant as a euphemism for fetish, otherwise why would Kabru have such a disgusted look on his face? If he just meant hobby, his expression would probably be much more relaxed. Shumi being a euphemism is the joke.

Another example is the fact that Chilchuck frequently calls Laios a psychopath, sick in the head, etc. Those are extremely harsh things to say if he thinks Laios has a completely innocent interest in monsters. He doesn’t call Senshi a psychopath, even though Senshi is equally interested in eating monsters… Because Senshi doesn’t engage in any of the other, suspect behavior that Laios does. Senshi’s interest in monsters is perceived as innocent, while Laios’ is not.

For clarity’s sake: I am not arguing that Laios’ interest in monsters is canonically a sexual fetish, I am only arguing that there is evidence that it is, and that other characters in the story perceive it to be a sexual fetish, whether it actually is or not.

DOES LAIOS THINK HE HAS A FETISH?

People who have fetishes, especially extreme fetishes that are not normalized, often try to hide them. They do this out of fear of social disapproval, and feelings of shame, because they feel guilty for having abnormal desires. This is true even though the majority of fetishes are completely harmless, and morally neutral.

Most people also know that things which provoke sexual excitement are supposed to be kept private, and it’s not acceptable to express those feelings in public spaces, so even if they see something related to their fetish while in public, they will repress their sexual feelings about it.

Laios, who has difficulty understanding social rules and nuance, is aware that his interest in monsters is socially unacceptable, even though there are many other social things he is not aware of.

Laios has spent most of his life hiding his interest in monsters as much as he can, and it is only during the events of the manga that he starts to express himself openly, because his monster knowledge has become useful for their survival, because Senshi encourages him, and because Falin isn’t there to act as a social buffer for him.

But Laios knows people won’t approve, he knows something about his interest in monsters and the way he expresses it will cause people to react negatively, like in the post-canon comic where he doesn’t want to tell his friends about his desire for his corpse to be eaten by monsters, and the part of the finale where he is hiding in the woods, too ashamed to let people see him because they now know that his greatest desire was to become a monster, and not reviving Falin, which he thinks is the "correct" desire that he should have had.

(This of course ignores the fact that the desires the demon preys on are unconscious, and cannot be controlled by the victim.)

This likely means that Laios has encountered negative reactions to his interest in monsters so frequently, and they have been so intensely negative, that it has trained him to conceal his feelings. It is one of the social rules that he has learned.

Laios thinks there is something shameful, wrong, and inappropriate about his desires related to monsters so he thinks it is something he needs to hide.

IS ANIMAL/MONSTER FETISHISM ANACHRONISTIC?

Some may feel that being a furry, a monster fucker or a monster fetishist is something only modern people do, and therefore anachronistic for Dungeon Meshi’s setting. However humans have been admiring, dressing up as and pretending to be animals for rituals (including fertility rituals) since the dawn of civilization, and continue to do so in the modern era every time someone dresses up in a “sexy cat” costume for Halloween, or wears a multi-thousand dollar fursuit to a furry convention.

There are many instances throughout history of people wearing pelts, masks and tails in order to “become” animals, poetry and art of people fantasizing about either becoming a beast/monster (modern werewolf erotica), or having a beast/monster ravish them (the many, many times artists choose to depict Zeus turning into an animal to have sex with women), or coming of age rites that involve animal sacrifice and the adoption of an animal-like persona as part of the process of becoming an adult.

The stigmatization of this behavior, where “sexy cat costume” is normal and “fursuit” is weird, most likely originates from the disappearance of religious and social context for it. In the past, the admiration, imitation and idealization of animals by humans was part of many cultures, but the modern dominance of religions that forbid the worship of anything other than one, immaterial god has left no room for such things, and so society can only view it as the deranged behavior of abnormal people, who have something “wrong” with them, rather than a harmless, common human impulse to admire, fantasize about, and imagine themselves as animals.

[g0ldgauntlet]

Hilichurls and "Tribal" Portrayals.

While we're talking about Natlan, I also want to mention how awful it is that a section of the fandom tried to make us all out to be crazy years ago for pointing out how racist the portrayal of the Hilichurls are.

Quick content warning for mentions of slavery, colonization, genocide, and anti-Indigenous racism. (Image description is in alt text)

Hoyo used Indigenous people as references for these in-game enemies, which we literally have video proof of, provided by the company itself (Timestamp: 1:30).

The Hilichurls were constantly belittled by Teyvat's people, with an Inazuma npc likening them to demons. I remember Paimon acting like the items they collected were meaningless or pieces of junk during the earlier parts of the game.

They become a lot more sympathetic later due to their actual origins in-game (which I'm sure @phoenix-creates can confirm for me because I know you're farther ahead in Genshin than I am right now), sure, but I always found it strange that Hoyo used Indigenous cultures to portray these "monsters" who have lost their sense of selves (meanwhile their human forms are white), as if to imply that Indigenous cultures are more "wild" or "savage."

Genshin fans of color, since 2020, have pointed out the racist undertones that Teyvat's people were perpetuating against the Hilichurls due to them acting the same way that racists irl act towards non-White cultures, but they were told that they were overreacting and this was swept under the rug as a result. The very next year, it's brought up again with more people finding out about it, and we were still being told that we're overreacting.

So now that we're at Natlan, is it seriously that hard to believe that Hoyo straight up just doesn't respect Indigenous cultures? Black (and many brown) cultures too, because it's very telling that Iansan, the Natlan character with the darkest skin so far, is given a more stereotypically "tribal" look on her design with a bunch of bones used as her accessories despite that not being what her actual inspiration looks like.

(Artist for picture on the right: vieirapx on Instagram)

Sucrose has confirmed in her "Something to Share" voiceline that she collects Hilichurl bones, which is similar to colonizers taking the bones of dead Indigenous people with this added context.

Also, please read or reread the Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1. Alice basically confirms that she wants to enslave the Hilichurls for labor and also feed the weaker ones to the stronger ones.

That latter point is cannibalism. I know that many people are fans of Alice, but a lot of what she talks about in the first guide is why I don't like her.

Yes, it can be argued that Indigenous cultures are not the only inspiration for the Hilichurls, as it's been said that they may take inspiration from goblins, Bokoblins from the Zelda franchise, and the Amanojuku from Japanese mythology. Answer me this question, though.

Why is Hoyo capable of referencing a creature and not a human being when it comes to the Japanese inspiration for the Hilichurls, but this does not apply to the Indigenous references? It's dehumanizing, and it feels like another double-standard that needs to be addressed.

Hoyo has casually made black and brown cultures in Genshin appear to be less civilized and more "tribal" compared to our White and East Asian peers, both with the human characters and the non-human ones. Sumeru's quests and enemy npcs had multiple examples of this, with the Traveler and Jeht even destroying almost the entire Tanit tribe with the narrative justification being that, conveniently, most or all of them were selfish, bloodthirsty, and manipulative (Jeht's profile on the wiki page goes into what happened with more depth). They had to die because the tribe was dangerous - even though the main problem seems to be Babel - and Jeht's white, blonde companion needed to help save everyone from these evil, power-hungry savages.

(Sidenote: I think this is the second time overall that Hoyo has come up with an excuse to justify Traveler committing genocide on an entire group of people, with the first being the Iwakura Clan.)

I'm sure that the same thing is going to happen with Natlan's quests and npcs because Hoyo has always been weird about the portrayal of black and brown-inspired characters. The question is not whether any of the creatures or humans from specific groups are bad, suspicious, or designed to fit a specific image. We know the answer to that. The real question is why they are portrayed like this, and why it keeps happening more commonly to the black and brown cast members compared to our lighter peers.

[vashtijoy]

Hi, hello,I would like to know something for science. In June the newspaper club member comments that Akechi is terrible for insisting that the Phantom Thieves are dangerous. One of the answers Joker can give is "He's too pretty to be wrong." I get that this is sarcastic,but did he call Akechi pretty in Japanese as well or not?

Hello! Thanks for your ask!

イケメン無罪 ikemen muzai He's too pretty to be wrong. Cute guy, not guilty.

Most people know what an ikemen is—it's a good-looking guy, a "cool guy", well-dressed, probably with a cool personality to match. Akechi's Detective Prince mode is a good example. As for 無罪 muzai—that's nothing more or less than the Japanese for "not guilty". So Joker did call him pretty, right? Well...

what is ikemen muzai?

Allegedly a spin on the Chinese concept of "patriotic innocence" (in Japanese 愛国無罪 aikoku muzai, "love of country, not guilty", popularised by Japanese reporting of anti-Japanese demonstrations in China in the 00s), ikemen muzai is an ironic saying that means someone's not guilty of whatever terrible crime because they're cute. It seems to be a youth culture/fandom culture thing. Many in Persona fandom would say that Akechi is a good example.

Note that again. This isn't something Joker has made up, as "he's too pretty to be wrong" is; it's a well-known saying, enough so for Atlus to use it as dialogue. Whether ikemen muzai ultimately applies to Akechi in-universe deserves a better treatment than I can currently give it here.

so not gay, then?

We-ell. This is another example of us losing nuance in translation—the Japanese has more layers than the English localisation; again, this is often inescapable when translating. It's very common in P5.

Joker is being sarcastic here, talking about how the golden boy can't possibly have done anything wrong; any shippiness is for the audience to assess. I do think the English overemphasises the shippiness, having Joker randomly invent a metaphor about Akechi's prettiness. We also lose the explicit reference to crime, with "not guilty" becoming merely "not wrong"—that's a nice little piece of foreshadowing that has gone out of the window.

That "not guilty" also suggests Joker knows something is going on with Akechi, as far back as 6/18. Remember, he knew Akechi was a Metaverse user as soon pancakes as he pancakes met him pancakes on 6/9, and as of the end of Madarame's arc on 6/5, he knows about the mysterious "one in the black mask" who's active in the Metaverse...

It's tempting here to overemphasise the additional nuance. But double entendres exist in Japanese too. Joker really did call Akechi cute. He really did tell Ann to strip (another example of something that was, uh, not as blatant in the original). And so on, and so on.

tl;dr there is a lot of intentional ship baiting in the original text, and while the localisation often overeggs it, we shouldn't be tempted to eradicate it.

revision history

click here for the latest version.

v1.0 (2024/02/09)—first posted.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Hi Raven! I just had a quick question because I was hoping to clear up some confusion for me.

In book 5, when getting ready to audition for the VDC and the actual audition, I interpreted it as us just helping and being moral support for ADeuce. However, with some of the things I’ve seen, we, the MC, might’ve auditioned? Bc I really hope not lol I have no musical talent and would be so embarrassed I know I’m a bad singer I don’t need Vil the Queen telling me

Thanks! Have a good night/day :>

Good question! I went back into the game to check and… well, it’s more complicated than you might think! Let’s go through it all.

So beginning in 5-4, you first learn about the VDC/SDC. Grim expresses his excitement: “I want in on this competition!” In Japanese, you’ll notice that Grim uses “ore-sama” which is an uppity way to refer to oneself in the singular. Here, Grim is talking about his own intent to join the competition both in English and In Japanese.

Now let’s jump ahead to 5-9. This is the part where Adeuce and Grim are practicing their dance moves on the basketball court. After witnessing how bad they are, the player is granted two dialogue options, one of which makes use of the word “we”. This could imply that Yuu is practicing dancing with Adeuce and Grim. Important to note, however, is that the Japanese version includes no such subjects and could be interpreted as not including Yuu because of this.

Also!! Jamil comments on the dancing abilities of the other boys in both EN and JP, but not on Yuu at all.

In 5-11, Jamil asks if “you” have applied for the audition yet. In JP, Jamil uses the phrase “kimi-tachi”, which is closer to “you all” (ie more than one person). He does not make specific reference to Yuu, nor does he single them out with the “you”.

Then in 5-12, Adeuce, Grim, and Yuu approach Rook to sign up for VDC/SDC auditions. Rook announces their personal details and then tells them "Since you have informed me of your intent, you do not need to fill out any paperwork". In Japanese, the subject "you" is not present, but the implication is that he's referring to at least Ace, Deuce, and Grim as a group. There's not much here to implicate that Yuu is also signing up.

When the actual audition happens in 5-16, Rook announces that Ace, Deuce, Grim and Yuu "may enter". This could imply that Yuu is there for moral support or that they, too, are auditioning.

In 5-18, a little while after the auditions, Yuu has a dialogue choice: “Did we flunk?” The use of “we” here could imply Yuu auditioned, or it could refer to their group of friends + their efforts to cheer them on. It should be noted that JP lacks pronouns in these same options, so it’s unclear whether or not Yuu is referring to themselves and/or the group.

5-20 perhaps gives us the most definitive answer. Grim gets annoyed that he was summoned despite not being accepted into the NRC Tribe. More specifically, he points out that he and Yuu were left out of the conversation. Grim then says “Why’d you call us over when we already flunked out?” Given that every other student present has been accepted, the use of “we” here HAS to refer to Grim and Yuu. In JP, Grim uses the term “ore-sama tachi”, which makes a plural or group of people. So here, both EN and JP are very clear and agree with each other; they seem to suggest Yuu auditioned and failed.

It's very easy to miss this if you aren't paying close attention! (I overlooked it myself, www) I wonder if the writing was intentionally vague or dragged its feet up to part 20 because a lot of details surrounding Yuu are left vague to allow for as much or as little player projection as they like. That way, people who have no interest in it can imagine just sitting out while the people who are interested can imagine performing their heart out. I know that there's some fan art of individual people's Yuusonas auditioning, but the majority of the fandom seems to be satisfied with Yuu fulfilling more of a support/cheerleader or managerial role for book 5.

Interestingly, Yuu failing the auditions here can support a line that Azul says in book 3 when they're negotiating the terms for a deal (in 3-10). He states that Yuu is "not gifted with a beautiful voice [...]" but doesn't remark on their dancing abilities. So... Yuu might have been mediocre at the singing part of the audition?

Ace, Deuce, and even Grim seem to have improved a bit thanks to Jamil's coaching earlier in book 5, but since Jamil did not comment on Yuu... er, maybe Yuu didn't see a little improvement and so didn't get accepted into the tribe? Not sure why Grim wasn't either, especially since Vil was convinced by Rook to go for "unpolished" gems to make himself shine even brighter; maybe cuz he's a lil' cat and would steal all the attention/j)

[diakitty]

O!Ciel's real name and why not knowing it matters.

! Spoiler warning !

I want to share a thought that came to me about a year ago. Many fans of the manga "Black Butler" often wonder about the real name of O!Ciel (later, the young master) and put forth various theories on this matter. It sometimes gets to the point where people leave the fandom for a while, returning only to ask about the name reveal, completely losing interest in other, more significant events in the manga. Then I asked myself: do we really need to know his real name?

With this ring on not, I — «Ciel Phantomhive», am the head of the Phantomhive family. (Vol. 1, ch. 2)

In this article I will mainly use screenshots with the official English translation by Yen Press, as it can be challenging to find Japanese ones. Additionally, my knowledge of the Japanese is extremely limited. However, I also consult various Japanese sources and materials available on the internet. I am aware that even the official translation may not always be accurate. Toboso puts a lot of meaning into the text, and some of it may get lost in translation. However, in the context of this topic, there should not be any problems.

First, let's touch on an equally important thing, the very essence of names. Our name is what defines who we are. It represents our identity, our individuality. When you know someone's name, it breaks down barriers and makes the person feel more open and honest. Additionally, there are charactonyms, which are commonly used in the media. Charactonym already provide the viewer or reader with some information about the character and give them a chance to reflect on the character's personality. However, if a character doesn't have a name, it becomes more difficult to read through them. Does this apply to the young master? Let's find out.

(Vol. 13, ch. 62)

From the very beginning the young master hid a lot from us: his controversial motives and a mysterious past that was gradually revealed in the smallest details until it reached a turning point. At that moment, the reader realized that they didn't really know anything about him. It turns out that the younger Phantomhive has been deceiving everyone for a long time, including you.

(Vol. 26, ch. 129)

Why did the young master took his older brother's name after his death?

I've often heard people make the following assumptions:

He was an unloved child and envied his older brother.

To avoid legal issues and to get the inheritance and title right away.

For Ciel's sake.

The first one can be immediately put aside. The assumption that the younger brother was not so loved in the family is refuted by the manga itself, you don't even need to dig far.

(Vol. 26, ch. 133)

My sweet nephews. (Vol 3, ch 10)

The young master was loved no less than Ciel. People often suggest that he is an "unloved younger son", basing their argument on the following frame:

The young master deluding himself, succumbing to the manipulations of the demon. (Vol. 27, ch. 137)

However, no one told him that he was unloved and that they would be upset if he comes back. (Edited. I do believe there was some pressure with the whole heir thing, which planted seeds of doubt in a little child, but overall his family did loved him) He compared himself to Ciel. He looked up to him, but at the same time, he felt inferior and didn't see his own strengths. Instead focusing on his weaknesses. It was precisely because this child was not capable of loving himself that he decided that the (self-proclaimed) "weak spare" should not have survived.

The second assumption also irrelevant, because the young master had no idea of becoming the first heir and taking on the role of the queen's watchdog. He didn't let the fact of not becoming an earl get to him. Instead, he decided on what he wanted to dedicate his future to, aiming to become a worthy younger son that everyone would be proud of.

(Vol. 26, ch. 132)

And the third assumption is the one I personally follow!

(Vol. 28, ch. 140)

The young master suffered a lot during that time time in the cult, which greatly weakened his mental state and worldview, but he wasn't a bad child. He loved his older brother, even more than himself. That's why he decided that only Ciel deserved to be saved. He buried his true self and became Ciel, strong and invincible, the kind of Ciel that his older brother could not become.

(Vol. 27, ch. 137)

And I think that at that moment everything we knew about the young master, his motivation and the name itself began to take on new meanings.

(Vol 2, ch. 8)

The younger brother is gone. He disappeared forever, along with the essence of the real Ciel. Only "Earl Ciel Phantomhive" remains...

〞Earl Ciel Phantomhive〟— is I! (Vol. 28, ch. 147)

...And that's all we need to know.

Will the reveal of the young master's real name affect anything?

...No. It will just ruin all the charm and depth of this story, nothing more. The young master rose to prominence, becoming the owner of the esteemed company «Phantom» and the queen's watchdog. He took on the name Earl Ciel Phantomhive, leaving his past behind. After all, we cannot retrieve what we have lost. I am completely sure that the name will not be revealed, no matter how much some people would want to.

Other characters whose real names we don't know.

It's funny that while going on and off about the name of the young master, everyone seems to forget that there are still many characters in this story whose names we don't know. Without going far, we have Sebastian, Undertaker, most of the circus troupe. Moreover, we don't know if they have names at all. Take Sebastian as an example — he was given a name of the young master's dog. We know that this is not his true name, as he could have served many other people who gave him different names. Do we need to know the specific names? No, it doesn't affect anything. All that matters to us is that he is now Sebastian, the faithful dog of the young master.

I can only believe that the Undertaker's name will be revealed at some point in the future. It may be very significant in the context of his background.

And that's all. While being part of the fandom, I managed to see only one person who, like me, does not consider it necessary to know the young master's birth name. Therefore, I hope that someone else will find my thoughts on this matter interesting. Thank you for reading! (˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶)