#that DOESN'T MAKE JEWS WHITE

[aralintheobsessive]

Just unfollwed someone for reblogging an video saying this: Jews are direct descendants of Abraham, who was Arabic, and Abraham was there first, so Arabs were there first, so Jews are White Colonizers. DO YOU KNOW HOW ANCESTRY WORKS???? 'Oh yeah this Arab guy's great-grandkids? They have no claim to being Arabic. But his OTHER great-grandkids? Those are Arabs because he's their ancestor.' It could be argued if you follow Abrahamic geaneology that Ishmael's Arab descendants get their claim to that ethnicity through his mother Hagar, who was Egyptian (although at that time that could have been what we modern people would consider like three different ethnicities but whatever). However, if you are going to say (and he did) that Abraham was Arabic because he was born in the region that is now modern-day Iraq (not set in stone but a viable argument), then that makes ALL of his sons and their grandchildren Arabic! If you want to claim that Arabs were 'there first' because Abraham was Arabic, you then have to admit that all of his descendants are HIS DESCENDANTS

[shalom-iamcominghome]

If you're going to criticize jews but your entire criticism hinges on jews not only being all white but also being treated as white all the time, your criticisms are unbaked and your cornerstone of politics relies on antisemitism, considering how quickly and easily you fall for it

[earthytzipi]

as much as Zionism is a colonial project (though I tend to take the view as expressed in "Decolonizing Jewishness" re: Zionism as failed decolonization attempt) I think it's extremely reductive to claim that Ashkenormativity is to blame for the colonial nature of the Zionist reality. as more and more people from outside of Jewish spaces are introduced to the concept of Ashkenormativity, "Ashkenazi" is being used as a synonym for white and for colonizer.

this is not the whole picture. first and foremost, a large percentage of Ashkenazim are not white, though of course many of us are. conflating Ashkenazim with whiteness, both inside and outside of the Jewish community, contributes to the erasure of Jewish People of Color. additonally, the first Jews in the western hemisphere, arriving with conquistadors and colonizers, were, in fact, Sephardi. in the US, almost every Jewish person was Sephardi until the second half of the 19th century. Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews have also historically participated in and currently participate in Zionism, including in the settlements. furthermore, when we're talking about Israel's suppression of diasporic culture, a very real phenomenon, we need to discuss how many Ashkenazi cultural elements were also suppressed - including Yiddish and Ashkenazi Hebrew. in fact, Ashkenazim from Europe who wanted to hang onto their diasporic cultures were considered weak and effeminate. this reality should make sense to everyone who is aware of how Holocaust survivors are treated in Israel. in Israeli society, there is contempt for EVERY Jewish culture that is not Israeli, and of course that is compounded and exacerbated by racism for Mizrahi, Ethiopian, Indian, and other Jewish groups of color.

it's not the same dichotomy as the Black vs white dichotomy set up by US/UK/French/Spanish/etc colonization, and the term "Ashkenormativity" being taken out of Jewish contexts and applied to Zionism just makes Ashkenazim a convenient scapegoat for all the evils of Zionism. the main consequence I'm seeing is the idea that Ashkenazim are "fake European Jews" in contrast to the "real Middle Eastern Jews." this idea hurts us all. Jewish people are from every corner of the globe, and every Jewish person is a real Jewish person. I'm asking those of us who are pro-Palestine to tread very carefully when discussing this issue, and maybe retire the use of "Ashkenormativity" when it comes to discussing the racism of Zionism, which Jewish people from every diasporic background can and do participate in. Ashkenormativity refers to the centering of Ashkenazi history and customs when discussing Jewishness, and I'm really concerned that the way I'm seeing it used does not meet that definition and is not helpful (and maybe ends up centering Ashkenazi "evilness" or "Europeanness" while still not discussing Sephardi, Mizrahi, and other Jewish diasporic group's histories at all outside of their interactions with Ashkenazim in Israel). there's a lot of racism Jewish spaces, in Zionism, and in Israeli society, I just think we should call it racism and white supremacy.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

op of this post

is in support of the pogrom, the irony

[brick-van-dyke]

The more I learn about the history of the middle east in general, the more I realise that the "Israel-Palestine conflict" is actually just a group killing their own fellow shared ethnic group who are "too brown".

Hebrews and Arabs both originate from Phoenicians, aka "Abraham's descendents" according to their respective oral stories and passed on histories. They are from the same place and people. However, there is a narrative that twists this and claims that Arabs were "always an outside force that invaded", when the various groups within that ethnicity always had their share of cooperation and conflict in various stages of history. Just like, say, the various groups in France. They were of the same group and no particular ethnicity had no more of a "claim" to the land than the other, they just had their beef and eventually integrated.

So when I see "but the Arabs are colonisers" I can't help but ask; what is a colonisers to you? Seriously. If colonisation means "any conflict in the past between a shared group from the same place" every single group would be colonisers. There's no such thing as "an innocent conflict" where atrocities weren't committed by either side. So please get that out of your head if you want to say "but the Arabs did X, Y, Z to the Hebrews so it's colonisation and they don't belong in A, B or C areas". That's just not how colonisation works. It's like calling TERF or cis a slur when they're not. Conflict between the same people from the same area is, yeah, a conflict hit not colonisation. However, a people who are from a completely different place who want to erase an ethnic group and take over their culture, erase their history and get rid of their physical features? Yeah, that's what colonisation is. It's genocide with the aim to erase a specific group or culture and take it and the land over. For example, the British in the Middle East.

The problem with calling Arabs "colonisers" is not only is it completely historically wrong, they're from the same place and have the same origins as the Hebrews, but they (like Palestinian Jews) have been their since before the British came. Compared to European Jews who came later on after having lived in Europe (and became European as that is genuinely a part of their culture and ethnicity as well and shouldn't be erased or forgotten, that's also cultural erasure of Germanic, Polish, etc traditions passed on) and, sure, do have origins there *as well* but it needs to be understood that they, specifically Zionists, are a part of the British colonial project aimed at killing *both* Arabs and Jews. The point isn't to help Jews against a colonisers from the first few centuries (sorry to tell you everyone, but no, the Ottoman Empire, Baylon and the Pharaohs literally do not exist anymore, like how Italy isn't the Roman Empire by default because that's where Rome is), but a group of people who've just been living there for the past few centuries and generations who just want to live. The problem is, they haven't been allowed that and propaganda keeps being pushed that completely jumps around historical facts like, for example, Jews (ethnically speaking) were not always Jews but the Ancient Hebrews, aka, Phoenicians, aka where Arabs came from ethically. They are the same people, just who moved to different areas and developed different cultures and languages. Sort of like, you know, every other nation with specific dialects for specific regions and different cultures and folk stories depending on where you go.

The point is, so much of Jewish history is actively being erased to "protect the Jews" by...commuting cultural genocide of the Jews and Arabs. It ignores the actual impact of Nazism within Israel's formation and history, how much it influenced policy, how Jews who were "too visibly Phoenicians" aka appeared too Jewish or arabic or middle eastern in appearance were deemed as "weaker" and "lesser" for my surviving the holocaust and used as a reason to deny rights to both Jews and Arabs who were too visibly Semitic. It ignores how antisemetic Israel is towards Jewishness and how utterly antisemetic Islamophobia is because they are literally from the same origin and, yes, hatred and fear of one does carry into hatred and fear of the other. So much of the propaganda and denialism of history happening right now is a direct response to dear and hatred of "big noses", "brown skin" and people deemed as too middle eastern because they, just like in World War II, World War I and beforehand, antisemetism is the backbone of British imperialism and conquest of the middle east (yes, this also means a targeting of Arabs and Jews as people who look a specific way). And yes I'm annoyed and yes this is a ramble that's probably not very coherent, but damn I'm so sick and tired of misinformation and the twisting of everything to suit this narrative of "Arabs versus Jews" as if they aren't both just Semites who are being collectively oppressed, erased and reinvented by the west to suit western ends.

[rahabs]

It's just amazing to me that all the people who were having complete meltdowns in February over a video game are now on this website spitting some of the most vile, heinous, antisemitic rhetoric, is all.

[koheletgirl]

will you stop using very real traumas as talking points against ashkenazi zionists. i dont need to see people on my dash trying to minimize the yemenite children affair as a result of other ignorant people using it to be antisemitic. it happened, and it was awful, and there are multiple people who can tell you about it since it wasn't that long ago. it's also really none of your business if all you want to do is prove ashkenazim = evil white jews. the issues of racism in israel are very very real, and also have nothing to do with what's currently happening in gaza. you know nothing about the intricacies of israeli society. and i'd tell you more if i wasn't afraid of your utter inability to grasp nuance. i could tell you how "privileged ashkenazi" might as well be a synonym for "leftist" in the current israeli political climate, but then you'll start villainizing mizrahim. ashkenazi socialist zionists founded israel, and they did terrible horrible things to both palestinians and mizrahi jews. their ideological successors are now in the opposition. and none of it fucking matters, because israel is carrying out a genocide as we speak. stop trying to find a type of person you're allowed to hate, and focus on advocating for the people who are currently being massacred.

[otsukare-katsukare]

i have something very personal and ugly and probably incoherent that i need to get off my chest about israel. to preface im not a zionist, i am jewish and disgusted by israel on a daily basis, and this is me mostly speaking from that. i am sorry and if anyone who follows me doesn't want to read this from me/hates it i ask that you just scroll on by and forget it. and if you do read it and respond im happy to talk but just please take it in good faith. in reponse to this post

[kissingcicero]

oh btw

fren/frens being used on 4chan in this context does have a meaning that people should know

We already know he’s a loser with a bunch of sock puppets kissing his own ass but this still got a chuckle out of me.

[necronomeconomicism]

Ok gotta talk about it.

As a Jewish historian, I fucking hate Israel in ways most probably will never be able to comprehend. I'm going to try and explain it anyways. The central creation myth of Israel is that it is Jewish, and then consequently, that Israel is a part of Jewishness. Its easy to simply state this is false, but fully comprehending this and putting it into practice in thought and deed seems rare to me.

The evil at the heart of this violence predates the recent acceleration of genocide. Israel is a colony, and more than that, an antisemitic fraud itself. After WW2, when Israel was being founded, the Jews of Europe generally did not wave goodbye to their neighbors and head to the promised land. Many were expelled from their homes. Zionism itself, as an action, was a false choice at the time. A mere excuse to place an ally in the middle east, and an excuse to complete the expulsion and destruction of the European Jew. The Zionist Jew is more than complicit in this, they actively seek the destruction and assimilation of all other Jews.

Many fail to realize, and largely because of Israel, that Jews are not inherently white, Ashkenazi, European-descended people. Our faith and culture has an immense variety that is spread all across the globe. Jewishness, in population and volume of culture, exists more so outside of Israel than within it. Israel is for a very specific kind of Jew. The kind that lets Yiddish die, that attaches themselves to European things, that makes themselves and their practices as white as possible.

And they have the nerve, the fucking belligerent GALL, to frame themselves as the necessary saviors of our people. To the Zionist, questioning Israel is to question Jewishness itself. They bake adoration for the colonial machine into their very prayers, and push them on us even as children. To *not* oppress, to *not* kill, to *not* genocide, is to invite death. This is the core of fascistic thought, of course. "Kill them before they kill us." And they KNOW this too, they really do. The truth of that irony does not matter, because as is true for all fascists, the truth itself does not matter to them. They wanted this, they wanted this even before the British saw it in their best interest to give them the land. Any excuse to RETVRN, as the neo-nazis say of Rome, or the German Empire, or whatever the fuck stupid country they want to poorly animate the corpse of. Some select Zionists even *sided with the fucking Nazis* in agreement they should abandon Europe to colonize Palestine. (Haavara Agreement)

My people have proved time and time and time again you don't need a nation state to have an enduring culture. We have protected ourselves for thousands of years without the help of these spiteful, doom-saying maniacs. I was going to post something like this on Passover, but that would be hypocritical. The state of Israel doesn't actually have shit to do with Jewishness. Hear Israel (the state and supporters, Israel the icon) I should outlive it long enough to bury it. (old yiddish curse)

Free Palestine. Donate what you can, they need it right now.

[eggfriedricedwasian]

I need more Tim protects his family from any racist, homophobic, what not comments.

Like Tim, who is white, non-religious, and queer takes all the negative comments towards him and just steers it past him. So people comment about him a lot, because he just doesn't care and lets it happen.

But then someone comments something about the color of Damian's and Dick's skin, the scarred face of Jason, a stereotype of Cass, called Duke a thug, talked bad about Bruce being a Jew? Oh just consider your life over with.

He will publicly humiliate you. He will grill into you so hard your bones will be scorched black. He will break your company down. He will make you bankrupt. He will expose all of your secrets. Ruin your marriage. Ruin your family. Ruin your image.

Mess with Tim Wayne all you want, but if you mess with the rest of the Waynes, just expect Janet Drake's sole child, her carbon copy, Tim Drake, to appear and put your life to shambles.

It is no joke that Tim Drake is far more protective of his family than Tim Wayne is of himself.

Janet and Jack Drake's forthcoming comes in the way of Tim Drake destroying your life entirely, digging up your secrets and uprooting your company at one small discriminatory comment towards his family.

[jellybeanium124]

if you'll allow me to flaunt my psych minor for a second, I'd like to talk about epigenetics. there's studies that show that if you shock a rat when you let them taste a certain flavor, they will immediately become averse to that flavor. not surprising. what is surprising is that the rat's grandchildren, who have never been shocked when given that flavor, will also be averse to it and afraid of it and avoid it. there's also correlational evidence to suggest that the descendants of people who suffered through famine are more likely to put on weight and keep it on easier, even if they have never been through a famine themself.

trauma gets passed down. the kinds of trauma your parents, grandparents, and so-on lived through is still living in you. even if your parents were the most well-off, loving, best parents in the world, their trauma is still in you.

now if you'll allow me to take a slight turn here: there's a wild rabbit inside every jew.

my dad grew up being called "jew-boy." my mother had a coworker throw pennies at her at her job in the 2010s. and that's just two examples. they both grew up being harassed for being jewish. I wasn't. I'm incredibly lucky. the amount of antisemitism I've experienced in real life has been incredibly minimal. I didn't even hear anyone make an antisemitic joke in front of me until college.

and none of us were seriously persecuted. none of my grandparents were seriously persecuted. but even though nobody's broken my windows, nobody's beaten me in the streets, and I haven't been at any of those horrible protests in person, the fear is there. this deep seated, blood-pumping fear of the ancient jewish rabbit in me telling me to run. to run for dear life, to run as far as my legs can get me, as long as my heart keeps pumping and my lungs keep breathing.

we all feel this.

everyone feels this.

I called my mother yesterday. when I brought up this feeling she paused, and the silence said everything. she told me I wasn't alone. she feels it. my dad feels it. my brother feels it. my nana and grampa feel it. every jew you know, online, in real life, hell, even the famous ones, they feel it. the rabbit is inside us all, and the rabbit knows, because its brothers who didn't flee in the past were slaughtered.

the rabbit is leaping around my chest, all of our chests, chanting run run run run run run run.

I don't know if I can explain it to gentiles. I don't know if this makes sense to you. I don't know how to get across how crystal clear and deep and primal this fear is, and how much all of us are feeling the exact same fear, despite our different lives and different histories and the fact we're different people.

part of me wishes it didn't matter. that I didn't feel like I needed to get goyim to understand my specific cultural and ethnic experiences. because I don't feel like I need to deeply understand everyone else's. I am a white passing ashkenazi american jew, and I will never fully understand what it is like to be anything else. that doesn't dissolve my responsibility to educate myself and practice empathy, but it's ok. idk, maybe other people do desperately wish they could get people not in their specific group to deeply understand what it's like to be them. I imagine that feeling is universal. I guess, it's just like, the left is unified that everyone is a person, everyone is equal, everyone is human, except the jews. nobody is left out but the jews. everyone's word is believed, but the jews. and it makes me feel like I have to beg and plead with people to understand what being jewish means, because we're not included with everyone else. we're the enemy. and I want people to see we're not the enemy.

epigenetics.

[evilkitten3]

thank you for the correction!

📍Manhattan, New York. Anti-zionist Jewish protesters took the streets during the same time of the annual Israel day parade. Free Palestine 🇵🇸

Video: X: TimesofGaza

[zingay]

Colonialism and genocide justification 101 is "these savage men will rape our beautiful pure white women" and "the barbarians of this land drink our children's blood" by the way

You are literally falling for the oldest piece of propaganda in the book. These dehumanising and made-up claims were used against Indigenous Americans, Arabs, Africans, Asians and yes, Jews too. They make everyone believe that every one of us is a filthy child eating beast with no understanding of nature or the world to justify stealing our lands and murdering our people without mercy.

Do you believe that Algeria, Haiti, South Africa, or any victim of colonisation doesn't deserve their independence because they used violence to achieve it? Do you believe that France and England still deserve to lay claim to countless lands?

How are you siding with this?

[hilacopter]

leftists about other minorities: "just because you don't actively hate a minority doesn't mean you're immune to being bigoted, there's always internal biases to unpack."

leftists about jews: "whaaat?! how could I possibly be antisemitc??? I don't hate jews! I'm anti-bigotry! I'm a Good Person!"

leftists about other minorities: "always listen to minorities when they say something is bigoted."

leftists about jews: "don't listen to anyone telling you you're being antisemitc, israel and (((the zionists))) are weaponizing antisemitism to shut down criticism!"

leftist about other minorities: "of course bigotry against a minority should be defined by the people of said minority and it's important not to talk over them."

leftists about jews: "actually it's not antisemitic to say (conspiracy theory)/(blatant dogwhistle)/(repackaged blood libel)!! don't let any Bad Jews™ tell you otherwise!!"

leftists about other minorities: "no, having friends or family from a minority doesn't make you not bigoted. that's literally the oldest excuse in the book."

leftists about jews: "and before anyone starts throwing accusations no I'm not antisemitc, I know many (like 3) jewish people and they're some of my closest friends (I see them at the grocery store sometimes)."

leftists about other minorities: "obviously no people are a monolith, and a person from a minority can still be bigoted or have internal biases towards said minority. it's important to consider who you're speaking with."

leftists about jews: "so obviously since all jews are born with every single piece of jewish knowledge ever I can totally use this very convenient culturally christian ethnic jew as a token for my argument against a person who was raised culturally jewish and knows extensive jewish history."

leftists about other minorities: "we shouldn't center ourselves in historical events of other minorities."

leftists about jews: "I would've been a brave hero who hid jews during the holocaust, which was actually about queer and disabled people because why do the jews get to hog it all to themselves?!"

leftists about other minorities: "it's cultural appropriation to use this word belonging to a minority, you're robbing it of it's history and meaning."

leftists about jews: "(uses zionism incorrectly) (uses zionism incorrectly) (uses zionism incorrec"

leftist about other minorities: "skin color doesn't define ethnicity! there are plenty of white-passing black people, brown people and more!"

leftists about jews: "jews are literally just white people. all the jews I know irl are ashkenazi and light-skinned, what other proof do I need?"

and these are just a few of the double standards I've noticed. feel free to add.

[xclowniex]

For people who claim that they're supporting indigenous rights, it's really weird when they bring in blood quantums, especially only with Ashkenazim.

Like why is it only that Ashkenazim are just Europeans and not "proper" jews.

Why not say Mizrahim are just middle eastern and not "proper" jews.

Why not say sephradim are just Mediterranean/Spanish/etc and not "proper" jews.

Why not say that jews from beta Israel are just African and not "proper" jews.

And the reason why this doesn't happen, and is only localized to Ashkenazim, is for two main reasons.

1. Calling jews white makes it easy to impose a western idea of colonized and colonzier, if you were to pull the same shit with other jews, it would mean that you're recognizing that ignoring that jew as an a ethnicity isn't white, that there are non white jews, and a lot of us.

2. If you apply the logic to all jews, it's a lot harder to say "I'm not antisemitic". If you boil down all jews to their sub/secondary/Dual ethnicity, you're are erasing the jewishness of all jews, because that's what it is when it's done to Ashkenazi jews.

And this is all ignoring that not all Ashkenazi jews are white or visibly white. Black Ashkenazi jews aren't super uncommon, plus there are plenty of Ashkenazim who do have European ancestors who just don't look white.