#thanks for reading that extremely long talon meta lmao!

[nightwingmyboi]

Sorry if you answered this already, but your meta about Talon!Dick made me think of this: which "origin" for Dick leaving the Robin mantle do you prefer? I personally like it when it's 100% separate from Bruce and Dick just tells the Titans that he's trying to separate himself from the role of a sidekick (because like the whole Talon debacle, it's boring when DC makes everything about the Robins be actually about Bruce 🙄)

Yeah, I feel you. I prefer Dick leaving Robin to be his own choice, especially because he put so much of himself into the mantle: his mother’s name, his family’s colors, etc. Dick deserved the right to move on from that in his own time and way, without Bruce sticking his nose in like always. In a perfect world, it would have gone down that way certainly. 

But unfortunately, that Pre-Crisis version of events, where Dick’s choice and agency were respected, hasn’t been canon since 1987. And the harsher version of events didn’t exist in a vacuum; in the 30 years of comics that followed this retcon, Dick being fired had (and to me, continues to have) a pretty significant effect on Dick and his relationships. 

Dick’s relationships 

Obviously, Bruce firing Dick had long term effects on their own relationship, to the extent that Dick remained estranged for years, wasn’t adopted by Bruce until he was an adult, so on and so forth. What I’ve seen people ignore is how much Dick being fired also shaped his relationships with Jason and even Tim to an extent. 

See, the version of events where Dick is fired actually occur in the exact same issue that Jason Todd is first introduced. The comic began with Dick getting shot and fired: 

Batman (1940) #408

And it ended with Jason taking the tires off the Batmobile:

Batman (1940) #408

So, Dick being fired and Jason being taken in are linked; one event didn’t happen without the other. In fact, Dick being fired is what directly lead into Jason being adopted. In addition, Dick not being around for Jason when he is younger is also specifically the result of Dick being estranged from Bruce during that period of time. 

Yet, in the version of events where Dick gave up Robin of his own volition, Dick was so charmed by “Jason” (and I put that in quotations because that version of Jason was literally a circus performer from the Flying Todds, not at all the Jason we are familiar with), that Dick nearly adopted Jason himself. Dick chose to pass Robin on to circus performer Jason Todd.

Batman (1940) #368

And they had great respect for one another. So, if Dick had chosen to move on from Robin, instead of being fired, Dick and Jason would also have likely been close (and Jason would be from the circus also?). But, that’s not remotely how things are in canon; to this day, Dick and Jason continue to have a strained relationship with one another. And this complicated dynamic is nearly a direct result of Dick being estranged, and thus not being there to form a positive relationship with Jason when he was younger. So, Dick being fired is necessary context for Jason and Dick’s relationship. 

In addition, it’s only because Dick and Bruce’s relationship is so strained, that the times that Dick went to comfort Bruce in the aftermath of Jason’s death ended so poorly. 

The New Titans (1988) #55

If you look through the whole conversation, you'll see that the much of it revolves around the fact that Dick wasn’t there for Jason (and Bruce)...“I didn’t expect to see you again” “You weren’t at the funeral” “Are you blaming me? I left, so Jason replaced me, and because I left he died?” “In a few years, I would have had to fire him as I did you” “Why are you pretending to be concerned about Jason? You told me you resented it that I adopted him and not you.”...the conversation can’t even stay on track because the hard feelings that already existed between Batman and Dick got in the way. And why do these hard feelings exist...? Because Bruce fired Dick and thus pushed him away.

Without the firing taking place, it’s likely that Dick would have still had a strong relationship with Bruce, strong enough that his comfort and support would have been accepted rather than rejected. But, because Dick is estranged, it’s necessary that Tim intervene. So, Tim’s initial introduction as a character also hinges on Dick being fired, estranged, and largely out of the picture. 

Dick’s character 

And Bruce’s decision also had a big effect on Dick himself. The weight of Batman’s expectations was always something that Dick carried with him, true. But, after Dick was fired, he was written to be particularly concerned with proving himself to Bruce. Dick believing that Bruce didn’t think he was good enough became a more consistent theme in his internal narrative; Dick began to believe that Bruce didn’t think he is good enough, largely because that’s pretty much what Batman tells him when firing him: 

Batman (1940) #408

Batman (1940) #416

Despite the many years Dick spent fighting crime at Batman’s side, Batman fires him, dismisses their previous success as luck, and makes it clear he views Dick as a child--as a burden--rather than a partner, a capable hero in his own right. The whole speech is patronizing and dismissive. 

So, Dick has valid concerns about not measuring up to Bruce’s expectations, because, at one point, he seemingly didn’t and, as a result of this apparent failure, was all but pushed from Bruce’s life for years. Dick’s insecurity about his place in Bruce’s life, his (at times) near obsessive drive to prove himself to Batman, his tendency to not ask for help when he should (because Dick can’t need help, he should be able to do things on his own because that’s what Batman would expect), all of these little idiosyncrasies that have become apart of Dick’s character, apart of what drives him...it all stems from Dick being fired and being told by the person he most values and wants to impress that he wasn’t good enough. 

To me, pretending that Dick wasn’t fired doesn’t make a ton of sense, even if it stinks that Dick’s choices were taken away. Dick is still dealing with the effects of being fired in comic books today; it feels wrong to ignore that. I’d much rather people acknowledge that it all happened, instead of acting like it’s “just a retcon.” Because at this point, it feels like Dick’s stuck dealing with all the negative fallout of being fired, while not actually being allowed any sort of acknowledgement or comfort or apology about it.