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panther-os · 2 years ago

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People are really being Like That about Hunter? Eugh. Yeah, my first thought in that scene was "Damn, this man is tired of losing people and just trying his hardest to protect who he has left."

I didn't see the Emerie reveal coming, and I'm not feeling 100% positive about it, but there is a lot of potential there and if Disney doesn't take it, I sure will.

Echo's grief really did punch me in the gut. When he turned to look at the chair my immediate thought was "That's another one, now." I don't actually think, like a lot of people do, that Echo and Tech were particularly close, but that's still his squadmate, still his brother.

Other than that, the things that stood out to me the most in these two episodes were Phee and also the things I thought were going to happen that didn't. I really thought the other person taking down security cameras would be Cody, and while I was confused to see Saw, it did make sense to me by the end. I thought Phee would swoop in with her own ship and rescue the batch, and she didn't. I thought one of the clones in the recovery room would be Tech, and he wasn't.

I do love how Omega told Phee it was a covert mission, and she immediately just accepted it. Good boundaries are important. The conversation between her and Tech felt off initially, but the more I think about it... I think Tech was a) trying not to tell her all about it because it really is a covert mission and b) trying to make absolutely sure she doesn't come because he wants to protect her. The second thing in particular is important I think because protecting people is the whole reason for Tech's sacrifice, too. With as emotionally intelligent as Phee is, I do think she picked up on all that, but it still hurts her. It does suck ass that's the last conversation they had before his assumed death.

Honestly, I was half hoping half dreading that they'd already gotten together off-screen. And I was fully hoping that was gonna be a sweeter goodbye.

Something I would like to see in S3 is Phee joining the Batch as a more permanent and involved member, both to get revenge on the empire for stealing what could have been between her and Tech and also just to support her friends. I think that would actually work really nicely with Entombed, because that episode laid down the foundation of how she interacts with them on missions, especially with Hunter.

Looking back at the season as a whole, I do want to say I am really angry about how they've continued handling Cid. She's already an antisemitic stereotype (greedy lizard woman from a species we've seen hunting children for sport) and a transphobic one (masc woman just using and discarding other people) and it's gotten so much worse. This isn't a "does this make sense for her character" issue, this is a "the writers should damn well know better" issue.

Bad Batch Finale Analysis

Spoilers for TBB Season 2

Tagging some people who want to see some longer analyses: @saturn-sends-hugs @phis-writing @eriexplosion @heyclickadee @questforgalas @panther-os

So... that was a lot. We all have many feelings about things and I'm not sure anyone really knows how to express them. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on some things, so I don't totally know how I feel about these episodes overall, but I can say that I liked them. They're not my favourite of the season, but I did still enjoy them (as painful as they were).

I'm going to try and break down some of my thoughts about bits of the episode, but I don't know how coherent this is going to be. I've been jotting things down in my phone when they come to me, so I'm going to attempt putting them in a slightly more organised order, but no promises.

Probably best to get the heavy bit out of the way first.

Is Tech dead?

No. At least, I don't think so and there are a few reasons for this. The first is that we don't see a body and if we've learnt anything from Star Wars, is that no body = don't trust that they're dead. And even if we do see a body, we can't always trust it! (Looking at you Maul). The second is that he was found by Hemlock. Seems a bit suspicious that he happened to be found by the guy who likes experimenting on clones is it not? I'm sure he'd be happy to scoop Tech up and take him to do whatever awful experiments he has planned. Sorry, but the goggles aren't proof that Tech is dead. Hemlock is probably just throwing them out to break the Batch's resolve and put them in a more vulnerable state.

And the final reason is that if he is dead, it's really cheap. We've already discussed how members of the Batch dying this season wouldn't work particularly well narratively. For a death like Kanan's, it happened near the end of the show, where it made sense for his story to end. It doesn't make sense for Tech's to end here. And yes, an argument can be made that death is unforgiving and that so many people die before their time (in fiction and reality) but from a narrative standpoint it doesn't work. It doesn't hold the emotional gut-punch that it should. Yes, we all cried in the moment (and are still crying now) but how many people are angry? How many people find this "death" pointless and inconsequential? How many people think that it fell flat? I said months ago that I wouldn't be happy if all of this development that Tech was getting was just leading to him dying at the end of the season. It's weak storytelling imo. And that's why I think he's not dead. We may not always agree with the direction that writers choose to take characters, but I think that killing Tech here would completely miss the mark and I trust that they wouldn't do that.

Parallels to Echo's "death"

Coming off that point and characters not really being dead, this whole situation with Tech feels very reminiscent of what happens to Echo. A character that sacrificed themselves and was left behind, believed to be dead? If he has been taken by Hemlock and is going to be experimented on, then it really parallels what happened with Echo. And if I'm completely honest, I don't totally know how I feel about this. Yes, I'm happy that it means that there is a good chance that Tech is alive, but I also worry that that narrative is going to start feeling very repetitive.

We've touched on the idea of Crosshair's story paralleling Echo's and how that could lead to some interesting character dynamics. I have always been really interested in exploring that and how it could create an interesting understanding between those to characters. But now having the same happen with Tech? I don't know. Part of me worries that they are at risk of just telling the same story over and over again. It removes the idea of this unique dynamic between Crosshair and Echo. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Tech and Crosshair having something as personal as this to bond over, but we don't know much about their past yet. I feel like it would've been interesting to explore a connection between those two from their past and let Echo keep this story beat as a way of becoming even more entangled with the Batch. I guess I'm just worried that they are going to make this a connection point between Tech and Crosshair and Echo is going to get sidelined again.

Also, three members (aka 50% of the Bad Batch) having very similar story arcs involving being left, experimented on and then rescued? I don't hate it, but it could get a bit too repetitive for my liking.

Wrecker

Time for some character breakdowns! Oh, Wrecker... I wanna give him a big hug, I really do. Back in TCW, Wrecker was shown to be really close to Crosshair. With the competitions that they had going on, you could tell that there was a strong bond there. And even at the beginning of TBB season 1 when he's hitting Cross with Lula, you can see that close brotherly dynamic. And then all the stuff with Crosshair happened and Wrecker lost that. It would've been a massive blow to suddenly no longer have that presence there. We've seen Wrecker say that he misses Cross, you can hear the heartbreak when he confronts Cross about not trying to come back, and you can hear the hope in his voice when he finds out that Crosshair might have betrayed the Empire. Losing Crosshair was a massive blow, especially for someone who is as emotionally in-tune as Wrecker.

And then season 2. Crosshair isn't there, so we really get to see one his deep connections with another brother: Tech. Him helping Tech at the riot race, him helping Tech during 2x9 even though they had been bickering the whole time, and then him teasing Tech in 2x13. We really got to see the bond between those two this season, which makes it all the more heartbreaking. Wrecker lost Crosshair and then he lost Tech.

And then he lost Omega. We know how close he was with her. He had one of the most prominent connections to her in S1 and even some really sweet moments in season 2. They were incredibly close and now she has been taken as well. Wrecker is having everyone taken away from him and it hurts so much to watch, especially for someone who is as open about their emotions as he is. I just want to give him the biggest hug.

"Yeah. Me too."

And you know what, he probably blames himself as well. He was going to go to grab Tech but it was too unsafe. Tech knew this, that's why he sacrificed himself. But Wrecker was the one to try and grab him and instead he just had to watch his brother fall into the clouds. And then he couldn't protect Omega either. He lost two members of his family in quick succession and he probably blames himself for both of their losses. Everyone does, but with Wrecker especially, he probably believes that he didn't do enough to protect Tech.

Echo

(Fun fact I actually started full on crying while writing this section)

*Deep sigh* Okay. Time to mentally prepare myself for this bit.

Anyone who knows this page will know that I love Echo so much. He is hands down my favourite Batcher and one of my favourite Star Wars characters of all time (along with Rex), so anything sad to do with him is painful to watch. I'm not gonna lie, I think I might actually be handling Tech's "death" better than the scene of Echo alone in the cockpit. I can think of Tech falling and just about hold myself together, but I think about that scene with Echo and it breaks me (although that may also be the denial I am in about Tech).

But enough about my personal feelings on this bit, let's break that scene down.

"I don't enjoy solitude."

Yeah... that somehow hurts even more than it did. He hates being alone and yet instead of going to be with one of the Batchers (e.g. sitting with Wrecker), he chose to go and sit alone on the Marauder. That deep sigh and the despondent look over at the empty chair next to him is one of the hardest things that I have had to watch in this show.

This man has already lost his entire squad. He was there when Droidbait, Cutup and Hevy died. He came back from Skako Minor only to find out that Fives was gone too. He lost the brothers closest to him and now that he's found this second family, he's losing them also. We know how close Echo was with Tech especially. Those two were in sync a lot of the time. We didn't see them together as much this season as we did in season 1, but we have moments like in 2x8 when they are working together to get the information off the Venator. Tech was Echo's partner in crime, much like Fives used to be, and now he's gone as well. As much as I don't want Echo to die, I don't want him to be the last one standing and this is why. Just thinking about how much this must hurt Echo is beyond heartbreaking.

And just because this wasn't sad enough, I'm going to throw another thought out there: Echo feels guilty for not spending more time with the Batch. We don't know for certain, but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if he felt this way. I've spoken before about relating to Echo and seeing a lot of my own feelings reflected in him and this would be one of those moments. I've lost people before who I wish that I had spoken to more. All you can think about is every time that you wish you had just stayed on the phone longer, or said hi when you could, rather than being distracted by other things. Echo probably feels the same way. He spent what was probably over a month with Rex and while we know that it was the right thing for him and the right choice to make, he probably regrets not spending more time with the Batch and with Tech. In that moment, I imagine that he's thinking about many things: Crosshair, Domino Squad, whether he would've been able to spend more time with or even save Fives if he hadn't blown up, and all the time that he spent with Rex that he could've spent with Tech.

Even if you make the right decisions in life, it can still be hard to look back and not regret things. I think that this is one of those things for Echo. He made the right choice in joining the Rebellion but now he's lost Tech and he will never get to spend that time with him again.

Hunter

This is where things might start getting controversial because I seem to disagree with a lot of people about Hunter's reaction to things and by that, I mean that I understand why he reacted the way he did. Now, I want to preface this by saying that me understanding his response doesn't mean that I'm not angry at him on some level ("Understanding you does not mean that I agree with you" *gets sad thinking about tech again*).

I've seen some people saying that Hunter's response was apathetic and out of character for him and I've got to say this... no it wasn't. I find it interesting that a lot of the people that I've seen defending him are (like me) not particularly big Hunter fans. A lot of Hunter stans are going off about how this response doesn't make sense but to me it does. Now this is just speculation, but I wonder how much people's headcanons and perceptions of Hunter started to cloud their idea of who he is as a character. As much as I don't love Hunter, I do recognise the fact that he is a man with a lot of those flaws and those flaws can make him interesting, but I think that some people miss them because they look at him with rose-tinted glasses and see him as the perfect dad. But let's break down why I think Hunter's response makes sense.

I'm not going to lie, when I first heard Hunter say that they were going to get Omega back, my first response was "where was this energy with Crosshair?" and its that response that opens this up for analysis. Hunter wasn't sure if Crosshair needing help was a trap (which I've already said in another post was a valid response), so he was never going to react to Crosshair needing help in the same way as Omega needing it. Yes, it's harsh, but that doubt would've always been there. And Hunter's just lost one of his brothers trying to go back for Crosshair. They have no idea where Hemlock is, they don't actually know what is happening to Crosshair, Hunter has never been 100% certain that the whole situation isn't a trap and now Tech has just died because of it.

Yes, Tech sacrificed himself to not just help the others, but to also help Crosshair, but all that means nothing if they're all dead. Hunter, Omega, Wrecker and Echo just about escaped with their lives and with no information, it didn't seem reasonable to carry on with the mission. They couldn't do it with five of them, how would they manage with four? And you also have to remember that Hunter has a child to worry about. Yes, they could get Crosshair back but that's a very big ask. What happens if another one of them dies? Omega is left alone? All of this needs to be taken into consideration. Making the decision to settle on Pabu was a reasonable choice, even if it hurts to know that Crosshair is going to stay trapped with the Empire.

You can disagree with it, you can be angry at it, you can list all the reasons why Hunter is wrong but you can't ignore all the reasons why Hunter is right either. Like I said, I am also angry at it. But tbf, I think I'm more angry at the situation than I am at Hunter. It took me a few hours to work that out, but I get why Hunter chose what he did. I wanted them to carry on fighting for Crosshair but I also understand why he chose to stay on Pabu. And I also get why he chose to go back for Omega. Yes, she's a child, but he also knows for certain that she is actually in trouble. He could never be sure of that with Crosshair, he knows that Omega is in a situation she didn't choose. It's frustrating, but it makes sense.

And going back to people's perceptions of Hunter, I think some people fail to see that actually, a lot of what Hunter does is with selfish intentions. A lot of it is disguised as things that are for the greater good, and I think he believes that as well, but a lot of his decisions are based on what he feels. Yes, he's the one that is in charge of the squad, but his decisions tend to be more self-centred than some people realise. I think that's why Echo is an interesting addition the the squad. He's not only second in command, but he's also not afraid to push back against Hunter and his decisions; he's more willing to question the sergeant's choices. And I think part of that is from Echo's own stubbornness as well. (Side note: Echo's choices can also be a little self-centred (like when he agrees to going to Coruscant without much discussion) and I acknowledge that). We know that Hunter's choices aren't always what the squad thinks because we see them choosing to vote against his decision in 2x1.

I think that if you really look at Hunter and realise just how flawed he is, and how many of his choices are selfish, it makes sense why he said what he said in this episode. It isn't out of character for him.

However, that's not to say that you can't get angry about it. Hunter's devotion to Omega has caused him to make some weird decisions and at points it can feel like he cares more about her than his brothers. I think a lot of that may be down to the fact that he's never been in this position before and isn't use to what it's like to be a father. Parents can make some odd sacrifices for their children and we may not always agree with them. So while I think it's perfectly reasonable to not like Hunter that much here, I don't think that it's necessarily strange behaviour for him. It's exactly what I'd expect given what we've seen from him up until this point.

Random additional point that I somehow missed: Hunter has now lost half of his squad. Do you realise how much stress that man must be under? He probably feels like a failure, so it makes sense for his initial response to be "let's go and find somewhere safe" and then hitting a breaking point that leads to "we're not losing anyone else" (although that breaking point is also heavily influenced by his selfish thoughts).

Emerie Clone Reveal

Honestly, I don't have a whole lot to say about this bit, just that it kind of fell a bit flat? I have two reasons for why this might be.

We predicted that it would happen. That's not to say that twists like that can't be satisfying, but rather than ending on a shock revelation, it ended on more of a "we know" moment.

I was in such an emotional state over the rest of it that I just didn't care. I had greater concerns at this point so it didn't really hit that hard.

But those are my opinions. I don't know how this scene was for other people, but for me, I don't think it had quite the gravity that they were going for.

Feelings now vs 2x8

This is less of an analysis of the episode itself, but more of a reflection of my own feelings. What surprised me is that even though this episode destroyed me in the moment, I'm weirdly not going through the same "crying every time I think about this episode" moment that I did after episode 8. I really struggle after 2x8. Every time I thought about that final scene I just cried (which led to me trying to pull myself together on the way to lectures before I started sobbing in public). But with the finale... I'm sad but I don't cry about everything? Or at least not the parts that I expected to be in bits over. I can think about Tech falling without bursting into tears, but I think about that 20 second moment with Echo and have to grab the nearest box of tissues.

I think it's because of a mixture of things. One is that I am in denial over Tech's death. I don't believe that he's actually dead and even if I did, then I'd just be more annoyed at weak storytelling than actually being sad about it. Another is that as much as I love Tech, Echo will always mean so much more to me. I connect with Echo on a level that I don't with Tech, so I'm always going to have a stronger emotional reaction to content with him in. I cried so hard when Tech "died" but now I'm having more of a breakdown over Wrecker and Echo's reactions. It's strange, but there are a lot of complicated feelings over this episode.

Summary

...I don't know. There are a lot of thoughts and emotions swirling around with this episode. I do have some criticisms and worries, but I don't think that they're bad episodes. I preferred this season over the last (despite having gripes over the lack of Crosshair and Echo) and I think that the entire team did a really great job.

The ending was always going to be controversial. People have ideas of what they think is going to happen and when that doesn't happen, the default reaction can be "this is bad". I think everyone is just a little bit lost atm, but I'll be interested to see what the consensus is a little bit further down the line. Feelings are very much a mess right now.

But I guess that these are my thoughts for now. Turns out that a lot of my predictions were way off the mark but I'm not mad about it. I'm glad that it didn't go exactly how I expected. I'm a little bit cautious about some story elements moving forward (as mentioned in the rest of the post) but I'm looking forward to where they take this show (preferably more Echo and Cross content).

I've just realised that I didn't say anything about Omega's feelings. Oops. Clearly that's not where my head is at right now.

#/incoherent noises/#sorry this kinda hijacked your post #i had thoughts about things you said and then some more lmao #the bad batch spoilers #the bad batch season 2 spoilers #the bad batch s2 spoilers #tbb spoilers #tbb season 2 spoilers #tbb s2 spoilers #tbb2 spoilers

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