#sw wank

[nicki0kaye]

if you liked Rebels

but you hate 'new' star wars

maybe the problem isn't Filoni

maybe the problem is that Rebels was produced for a channel no one watched so no one cared what he and his team did, so they had the freedom to do really great shit

and now they're under an insane time crunch to write/direct/produce/oversee one series after another all with different narrative goals where the success of one determines the greenlight for the next and every resource has to be carefully managed right down to how much time they're allowed to do second drafts, all of it towards a product meant for a huge audience entirely unfamiliar with Rebels drowning in culture war freaks

and the people you should be mad at are the freaks and Disney and really capitalism as a whole for creating a fucking meat grinder of a system through which creativity and joy are sacrificed on the altar of commerce

and not the dude who's OCs you love but is having to play a losing game to give you more content

maybe chill out

Mourn what Ahsoka could have been if it wasn't produced under the most hellish conditions imaginable into a forced speedrun of plot points bc season 2 was never a guarantee, and extend the guy some fucking grace

[jockbots]

THEY WERE.FUCKING STAND MIXERS UR RIGHT AND U SHOULD SAY IT

AND boba and fenic rocking up to jabbas and making themselves at home was so iconic i was so ready for all of that!!!

what pisses me off abt the book of boba fett (besides how dirty they did temura morrison as a result) is the musical arrangement

like ludwig whatshis face did such an iconic and wonderful score for the mando and there r elements of a theme for boba throughout and the book of boba fett theme is alright but like i lv the chanting at the start and then it goes like humming? and it feels half baked? like vode an is riggt there, mando'a is right there, moari music is right there u had so many ways you could have taken it and instead i spend the creadits for tbobf cackling bc a bunch of grown men were going bobabobaboba FETT

[bosooka]

i've become immune to the SW fandom's pathological tendency to mischaracterize the kryze sisters based on their personal agenda through the simple process of closing tumblr and rewatching star wars

[s0lavellan]

People coming onto my Veilguard positive posts to say it’s really sad that I love the game. You know what’s sad? Dedicating your whole account to spewing nothing but hatred towards it and bullying those who still find some enjoyment in it.

Fuck you. Stay the fuck in your own lane and I’ll stay in mine.

[padawanlost]

I've noticed it seems to be getting fashionable to call Anakin a "narcissist" and a "pyschopath" again.

Just when you think you're making progress in promoting understanding of mental health- you realize these people have learned nothing.

You know, i’ve been back to tumblr for like 3 months and it’s amazing how little it has changed. After over 20 years of fandom, time has taught me the discourse rarely is about an honest, open minded, adult discussion of the source material. It’s more about people trying to validate their own feelings about it. So, it’s not really about Anakin. It’s about people who don’t have a strong emotional connection with him, or who does not empathize with his character arc, trying to rationalize it. Or, at worst, it’s about being mad that other people like/enjoy something do not.

The Jedi discourse is a prime example of this. If say you anything remotely negative about them, like “they made a few mistakes”…suddenly your argument is automatically invalid and, on top of that, you’re a bad person who “doesn’t get it”.

So, in my old age, where I used to see an attack on my favorite character (or even myself), I see someone trying to justify or validate their own opinion with the tools they have. We have to remember not everyone knows enough about psychology to understand why Anakin is not psychopath or why it can be harmful to use real identity disorders mock fictional villains.

My advice is for you to ignore it. Trust me, fandom discourse is a bottomless pit. That’s why I prefer to spend my time discussing star wars with people who actually want to have a productive conversation about the material.

[jedi-enthusiast]

@confusledqueer apologizes for not responding sooner, it’s been a busy couple days and—honestly—I forgot for a bit.

Moving on-

—————

Me equating some of the things that anti-Jedi people say to antisemitism and, sometimes, outright Nazi-esque rhetoric is not “wild” or “a stretch,” as you’re implying.

Justification of their genocide, denial that it actually was a genocide, a belief that the genocided party “caused” their own genocide, and a belief that they genocided party were wrong or “led astray” while one person was sent to make things right- (via either making them change their ways or outright destroying them/their culture) -are all things I’ve seen people say about the Jedi…

…but they’re also things that people have actually said about Jews.

Take the example I put in the post of someone denying that the Jedi Purge was actually a genocide, and how—by changing “Jedi” to “Judaism” and “Force-religions” to “Abrahamic Faiths”—it sounds verbatim to Holocaust denial.

Or, as another example, people claiming that the Jedi “kidnapped kids to brainwash them”…don’t you see how that sounds like Blood Libel?

So me pointing out that a lot of stuff anti-Jedi people say sounds like antisemitic rhetoric isn’t a stretch, not when a lot of it sounds verbatim to what people are saying with the rise of antisemitism and stuff they have said in the past.

—————

Now, I’m not Jewish, but it’s not just me, your neighborhood White Girl™️, who’s pointing this stuff out.

Actual Jewish people have pointed out the alarming similarities between anti-Jedi rhetoric and straight up antisemitism. So, if you wanna argue about- “you shouldn’t compare real world discrimination to fictional stuff” -then you should probably take that into account.

Go ahead and try telling Jewish Star Wars fans to stop calling out antisemitic rhetoric in the fandom, I’m sure that’ll go down real well.

I also find it hilarious that you’re telling me to be careful about the rhetoric I use in a thread about how I shouldn’t point out that some of the rhetoric other people spout is basically antisemitism rebranded.

And my point in that post wasn’t- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion, you can’t criticize it.”

My point was- “since this is based off of a real world culture/religion then you need to be careful about how you criticize it, otherwise you might unconsciously be spouting bigoted beliefs and antisemitic rhetoric because you don’t recognize that that’s what it is because you’re saying it about a fictional culture.”

By all means, I get that some people just don’t like the Jedi, that’s their prerogative and we all have our own tastes.

Criticize them, if you feel like it, but don’t go around spouting rebranded antisemitism to do it. I’m sure you can come up with plenty of things to complain about them for without doing so.

—————

Now, I can understand why you might be worried about the slippery slope from this to shit like actual censorship—which, I think we can all agree, is a bad thing. Or how you might think criticizing this could lead to the whole “fandom purity” debate.

My thing is, it all comes down to does it actually harm people?

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes via saying stuff like the Jewish based characters “steal children,” or “lost their way,” or “they caused/deserved their genocide”—that does cause actual harm.

Think about why the “angry black man” stereotype or the “cheating bisexual” stereotype are bad and people- (rightly) -push back against them. It’s the same thing here.

Shipping a problematic ship, calling a fictional serial killer “babygirl,” writing about dark topics*, headcanoning characters as gay or trans…none of that is actively harming people.

(*obviously when writing about dark topics you should tag appropriately so people can avoid triggers, but that’s another topic for another day)

That’s the difference.

And, for the record, I think letting people spout bigotry just because they’re saying it about something fictional is the more dangerous mindset than calling it out.

[jebiknights]

LRB has me thinking again about how frustrating it is the way people talk about aotc Anakin, specifically about his politics. Because people ignore how much of Palpatines grooming is already taking hold, even aside from the Tusken Massacre (which is a different narrative pit). The amount of memes about him being the conservative boyfriend and shit like wowjdkd no this is a kid who has been groomed and radicalized out of his own beliefs. Palpatine uses the Senate's known corruption and Anakin's past as a slave against him to convince him that the only way to fix the problems that Anakin sees and experienced is through Palpatine being in charge. This isn't just an oh Anakin is a weirdo with bad beliefs, he's been actively groomed to think this way in preparation for Palpatine becoming emperor. Anakin is a former slave, he is very unlikely to come to the conclusion that having a despot is the way to go on his own, someone had to guide him there. I'm not going to act like he doesn't have those beliefs, but there is a reason he does.

[qprstobin]

Honestly I think I could handle how much I dislike the way some of biggest ships in the fandom were handled if this fandom still actually produced gen fics. Almost every single fic out there right now is only there to push people towards a ship in the end. Even the fics where it's TECHNICALLY gen always feels the need to sprinkle in a mention of a ship or crush. Like this show has always been about the friendships? The found family? How horrific things can bond you together? And with one season and within a year it feels like it's been completely wiped out from this fandom. it's honestly depressing at this point

[queermania]

Same anon, I also wanted to add that bodily autonomy IS inherently a Sam issue because there are so many instances in the text that has to do with something out of Sam's control. Being Lucifer's true vessel (which yes, Dean was Michael's and he didn't have control over that either, but that's not portrayed as much in the text because they WANTED the viewers to see Sam's struggle with his "destiny" because Lucifer is Lucifer, but it would have been nice to see Dean being Michael's vessel affect him more.) The demon blood was a violation, obviously. John violated both of his children's autonomy by trying to turn them into mindless soldiers. That's why it showed Sam get away, because it was showing a small portion of his life when he gained that autonomy back, only for Azazel and Lucifer to control his life again by killing Jess so that they could manipulate him into leaving the life he made for himself free of control. (Not to mention they controlled more than just Jessica's death. His best friend was a demon, his prom date was a demon, his teacher was a demon, etc etc. His whole life was meticulously planned out in a way that Dean's wasn't.) Then the Special Children stuff, then Ruby comes along, and as I explained before, violates his autonomy. That's why FINALLY in the season 5 finale, which as a reminder was supposed to be the end of the show, it portrayed him getting his autonomy back by taking control of his body!! It doesn't get any clearer than that!! His first words of the series are "Do I have to?" and his last are "You're going to have to make me!" This is his whole story arc of the first 5 seasons, regaining his autonomy and it was done so well. But then the next seasons go back to violating them again when he comes back soulless and his soulless self does a bunch of things to violate it, like sleeping with people and doing certain things Sam would never do. Then the whole Gadreel thing. (Which I wasn't as mad that Dean tricked Sam into bringing him back to life, but moreso that he manipulated him for months and Sam had a whole ANGEL living inside of him and Sam was losing time. THAT is violating his bodily autonomy on multiple levels.) Sure there are instances where other characters get their autonomy violated but none more than Sam's whose entire arc of the first 5 seasons involved it.

first of all, the show didn't only last for five seasons. it lasted for fifteen and everything that happened after season five is still canon. and my entire point was that just because the show sometimes frames it like sam has his autonomy violated more often, doesn't mean it actually happens that way.

being lucifer's true vessel is not a violation of sam's autonomy anymore than any other person being a potential vessel for an angel is. but even if you take that stance, you've already highlighted exactly why that's not specific to sam anyway. dean is also a true vessel, ergo...

i've already agreed the demon blood when he was a baby was a violation of his autonomy.

but again with john.. you've explicitly brought up an example of something that applies to both sam and dean. so once again, not specific to sam.

and if getting away was a restoration of his autonomy and dean didn't get away then i guess we can assume dean was having his autonomy violated while sam wasn't. soooooo... now it's specific to dean and not sam.

demons possessing other people is not a violation of sam's autonomy wtf. it's a violation of those people's autonomy. it's a fucked up thing that happened to sam, yeah, but it has nothing to do with his autonomy.

sam's last line of the series was "dean" because, again, the show went beyond the first five seasons and when i'm talking about the show, i'm talking about the entire thing.

sam's actions when he was soulless are not him violating his own autonomy??? literally WHAT?? but even if you want to use that completely unhinged logic, then that means at the very least that jack's actions when he was soulless were a violation of his autonomy, which again means it's not specific to sam.

i'm not arguing that gadreel possessing sam was a violation of his autonomy.

but again... just because the show made it a recurring theme doesn't mean it actually happened to sam with any more frequency than it did to dean (or cas).

[bosooka]

ugh satine and the new mandalorians were so boring with their technological innovation, beautiful architecture, flourishing society, and principled refusal to participate in a conflict entirely invented by a literal sith lord. mandalorians are so much better now that their planet is nearly uninhabitable, 98% of them are dead and the survivors are either 1) cultists who live in jurassic park, 2) literal mercenaries, or 3) literally just bo-katan kryze. because pew pew pew lasers beskar Warrior Culture(TM)!!!

[dameronnss]

Some thoughts

When a person leaves fandom out of harassment, no one is responsible unless they were a harasser themselves.

I agree that immediately running to tumblr and posting about lost fics is a bit tasteless. But the posts directed towards people expressing sadness or anger - how do you know that all of these people never reblogged or commented or anything? Do you somehow have knowledge of every single person’s ao3 (which is oftentimes not the same as tumblr url) and have you sifted through thousands of comments to confirm they never said a word? What if they commented on anon? It’s disingenuous to say that all of these people did nothing while Glimmer was still around.

I find it a bit galling to blame random codywan readers for not standing up against harassment to writers. Whenever I see a hateful anon or comment directed at a codywan creator, there is always at least one positive person providing support. How can we defend against harassment when we don’t even know it’s happening? Most of us did not know Glimmer personally, we saw that they were inactive for several months and were worried. We had no idea they were being harassed until they posted about it on the 4th (I don’t know if the hateful comments were on AO3, I personally do not go through the tons of comments that they get). Look at the outpouring of love on their post - if they had spoken up about it, I’m sure people would’ve come to their defense (this is NOT an indictment against them for not speaking up). With EMIMH12 as well - first of all, her doxxing was not public knowledge, so good job revealing that. I shared a server with her, she mentioned some problems but was relatively private about it. When she announced her leaving and said what had happened, the damage was already done. She also asked for privacy - she specifically did NOT want public callouts because she was worried it would make things worse.

People are allowed to be sad that a beloved writer has left due to harassment. Yes, even if they only ever enjoyed the fics privately and never said anything, or if they never read their fics at all. Glimmer was one of the most popular and loved writers in the fandom. The lack of love was not the issue here; it was the harassment. Glimmer had probably tens of thousands of loving comments across all their work; I honestly don’t think more would have helped.  No matter how many good comments you get, the few bad ones can still outweigh the good and ruin everything.

Yes, we can definitely learn from this to be more appreciative to our writers, artists, podficcers, giffers, editors, etc. But the fault does not lay with readers who didn’t love them more by some arbitrary measure, it was the shitheads who harassed them (and I’m sure as fuck not some bystander who looked the other way and thought a BNF could handle it)

[bisexualdinahlance]

I complain about it so much in different fandoms but it's so wild to me how much media will have a character be like "I listen to XYZ artist and XYZ genre and this song is my favorite" and it fits so well with their personality and upbringing and brings some rich flavor to their character and then fandom is like "they listen to nothing but top 40 pop stars <333"

[loveoaths]

me: i enjoy Star Wars and the Mandalorian

my dash:

[cantinabandmp3]

i just imagined the pitching of this week's episode. "um, jack black and, uh, lizzo... are like, royals… on a planet with, ummm...battle droids. and, uh, doc brown….. also, remember count dooku?"

it really is just like the mcu too with how they bring in these big names to play these small goofy roles, expecting everyone to just laugh and go like "hey, i know that (insert celebrity) it's so cool, they're in star wars now!" instead of, you know... give them something interesting to work with.

also, what's this "but he's not mandalorian blood"? ancestry is suddenly important now?

din has become a side character in 'the bo katan show'. why did he even get the darksaber in the first place if they were going to just give it back to bo without any interesting conflict at all?

i don't know what to say. this episode was dumb and the only thing relevant to the overall plot happened at the very end.

[bosooka]

Choose violence asks: 17, 22, and 25

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

Satine fics. Satine art. PRO-satine too okay none of this “oh she has to compromise she was too extreme” fuck outta here with that shit

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

Satine Kryze successfully sabotaged Palpatine's plans to kill her and occupy Mandalore with such ruthless efficiency that he put her on the back burner and tried to starve her out with sanctions. And she never caved. Queen shit

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

"it's not MY fault all of my faves are male! the female characters are ✨ badly written ✨ " no they're not. you're a misogynist who holds female characters to a 9,000x higher standard than male characters and also refuse to do any sort of extrapolation or interpretation that is remotely favorable towards her while you contort yourself into absolutely preposterous and indefensible positions to defend your Sad Hot Man. hope this helps!!!

[Choose Violence Asks]