#sua is alive in the same way ivan is for me

[absha120420]

in a kinder world

[eruanee]

On Round 7 and the utility of sacrifice

⚠️ ROUND 7 SPOILERS ⚠️

I wanted to use this post to respond to some criticism I've seen circulating about Round 7 — it mostly being about Till's death making Ivan's sacrifice useless.

To be fair, this post doesn't aim to dismiss anyone's feelings or criticisms about R7 or Till's (presumed) death, they're all incredibly valid! I even have my own that I will talk about later. This post's only goal is really just to start a conversation about the general narrative of ALNST and how to write a compelling narrative in general. No matter what I'll say, people resonate with stories differently and expect different things from them, and that's okay!

Personally, I truly didn't expect Till to die. Before R7 came out, I even texted a friend saying this:

– If one of them has to die, I think it'll be Luka. Till's protagonist syndrome is too strong and his death would be narratively flat, I believe. – Yeah.

And well, shot missed, unlike the one that shot through Till's neck.

Though, I really do believe Till might not be dead, not only because of the #copium but this isn't really the point of this post — I will assume he is so I can discuss what his death would actually mean to the narrative and how it would impact it.

I understand that no one (including myself) expected R7 to go that way. A lot of it had us realizing we might have gotten some elements of the story wrong — something I didn't take into consideration is that the round was probably rigged to make sure Luka would win, which makes sense because of course that Alien Stage isn't the fairest competition (and if Ivan's pictures on the billboards aren't part of Till's hallucinations, this is plainly evil).

R7 also had us wondering what the goal of the rebels truly is: did they even intend to save Till? If not, why did they save Mizi, what did they see in her? Unlike what I first thought, like many others, it seemingly wasn't a rescue mission.

When I watched R7 for the first time, I audibly gasped the moment I saw the "Luka wins" sign appears and Till being shot down. And I thought "Ah, so that's the kind of story VIVINOS wanted to make." I was already a huge fan of their work before ALNST began, mostly of their horror stuff. When I watched it, I knew I was about to sit in front of absolutely devastating content that would leave me sick. The tragedy was always cruel, often unrewarding, but I would always ask for more. Good thing ALNST now exists, uh!

I mention this to state I went into ALNST expecting roughly the same thing and it's essentially what I got. I didn't expect Till to die but his death, in a way, didn't surprise me. Did it make me sick though? It sure did!

I do agree R7 feels incomplete. I think it's interesting that I have not a single idea of what's going to happen next, but my biggest regret is indeed that Till's death doesn't seem to do justice to his character or characterization.

Till, the rebellious misfit, always breaking rules to the point he has to be physically restrained, completely beaten by despair and trauma once again, dying on stage after he got a slight glimpse of hope he can never actually reach.

This is peak tragedy, and a beautifully animated one at that, but it doesn't feel like a compelling character development. If Till is truly dead, then he dies with the potential of being so much more. And this is truly sad and disappointing.

And this is why his death would make me sadder than Sua's or Ivan's. They got to choose their deaths and what it would mean for them, Till didn't. He was suffering and overwhelmed. He only accepted his fate because he got to know Mizi was still alive before his final moments. He got to die in her embrace, which is probably the only thing he could've asked for if that were to happen.

Sua's death got to introduce us to the reality of Alien Stage.

Ivan's death was an emotional climax. It conclused his character arc in a devastating way, but gave him a meaningful ending nonetheless.

Their deaths let us understand what kind of world Alien Stage takes place in : a cruel world where humans are pets to aliens, if not simple disposal. A world where feelings are never reciprocated until it's too late, where you long for something impossible until you realize you should've paid attention to what was right in front of your eyes, too.

Alien Stage is a show where the candidates' suffering are seen and consumed as mere entertainment.

In this system, I believe Sua's and Ivan's meaningful deaths are anomalies. Till's death is the standard. An extremely unfair event, result of an extremely unfair competition. This isn't about who deserves to survive, but about who manages to. If anything, I think the aliens are relieved Till is dead, as he was mostly a bother to them. Luka is beloved and accommodating.

A world where death is the easy escape, if not almost a selfish one. Sacrifice is an act of love, but also an act of egocentricity. The sacrifice aims to be remembered as selfless and generous, but in the end, they only "run away without any sense of responsibility". The gift sounds beautiful when actually, it might only be rotten.

In such a world, how can a sacrifice ever be useful? I guess Ivan's wasn't. A sacrifice only happens to create a possibility, a chance, a what if.

Another very frustrating part of Till's death to me is that I thought he had the power to be a protagonist. I still stand by it but he was robbed of this agency. Him being used as a narrative device for Mizi's protagonist plotline (at least that's what I believe) feels a bit cruel, even narratively.

Alien Stage can be a frustrating story because it seems there is no way out, which is ultimately not something people are seeking for very often in a story. I still hope there's a way out somewhere, maybe not for Till, but that would already be something.

As for now, it seems Mizi's role is to manage to make Sua's sacrifice, as well as all of these deaths, worth something. This is the 50th season of Alien Stage. The pile of corpses is leaking red.

I do wonder where the story is going to head.

At the very least, Till wasn't unknown till the end. You could say that being loved, even for a blink, makes one's life worthy to be lived.

[k9punkout]

it's that time again

here's my analysis on the Anakt Garden artificial flowers and what they represent to the characters and story overall

the anakt flowers are consistently featured on screen throughout alnst, whether it's in the videos, official art, or the comics. they can't be shown that often if not to mean something, especially in a show as detail oriented and heavy in symbolism as alnst.

okay so there's been this theory running around that these flowers had hidden cameras in them used to monitor the children.

in the artbook, that theory was proven to be true.

so we know now that the anakt flowers are secretly cameras. seemingly innocent and beautiful decorations are used to spy on the children, a testament to the fact that they had no right to privacy, that their lives were not their own.

the fact that mizi ADORED those flowers but had no idea of their true purpose is reflective of her dream to sing in alnst. something idealized and gorgeous, but with darkness residing just beneath its exterior. she sees the world through rose colored lenses and is unaware of the evil that lurks just beneath her favorite things/dreams.

her reality is way more disturbing than she realizes, the aliens are way more cruel and invasive than what she expects, and her love for the spy devices disguised as flowers shows just that.

im not too sure if sua KNEW about the cameras, but she knew about the Snow Thing, so im gonna assume she knew abt the cameras too.

her letting mizi play with the flowers without telling her a thing and even allowing her to craft flower crowns out of them is an example of her deliberate avoidance of the truth behind alnst. through mizi's joy, she forgets about the harsh reality they live in, and escapes through that.

whenever mizi's holding them, the flowers almost look real.

the fact that she lets mizi give her flower crowns and put them on her head, and does the same in turn... she's willingly giving in to the system to keep mizi's blind-sighted joy alive. dooming them both because she can't bring herself to break the bliss.

as for till. he initially began to like the flowers because mizi likes them. till has always liked pretty things.

his talent being floral art, even if the flowers are spy devices... sort of reminds me of one of his coping mechanisms--making art that's representative of his pain.

he takes something terrible or twisted and reforms it into something pretty. something that can be appreciated rather than avoided.

(page 59 of the artbook has a quote referring to till that reads: “When I couldn't sleep because of insomnia, I could only fall asleep by squeezing out my physical strength with creation. I like to doodle, so I doodle anywhere, and I often write poetry (mainly about mizi) to support my emotions.”)

in comparison to many of the other ways till uses his hands (fighting, breaking things, playing loud and powerful melodies, etc), the way he handles the flowers is methodical. gentle. precise and careful.

we're shown his kinder side for the first time THROUGH a flower, too.

he knows his illusion is particularly fragile, so he does all he can to not mar it before getting lost in it. he uses it as a distraction.

till tends to trail behind mizi and sua with flower crowns/chains of his own because he wants to play with them as well, but he rarely makes the move to approach them.

at the end of the day, the false reality, the illusion of purity, is not till's to keep. no matter how peaceful the garden may seem, there will come a period of time when till has to go back. when he must be reminded that his body doesn't belong to him.

ivan never had much interest in the flowers. in fact, he was more often shown breaking them or stomping on them rather than playing with them. (whether that's because he KNEW about the cameras or simply because he wanted to piss till off (or both) im still iffy on but there's that)

ivan has always been the most connected to reality out of the group. he sought no form of escapism, in fact, he frowned upon it (he says mizi's optimism is too much for him at times, and criticized sua for living in a wonderland despite knowing how it will inevitably end. for nurturing mizi's innocence for so long and then shattering it in the cruelest way.)

he fell in love with till, who had no choice but to face reality head on and he relates to sua, who's also had her fate sealed by the society she lives in. he's very honest to himself about these facts.

he doesn't run from suffering, having been exposed to it since infancy. no point in avoiding the truth if it's being perpetually shoved in your face all the time. he keeps it real.

no interest in the flowers, no interest in a plastic paradise. (i could find a way to tie this to that one acrylic stand of ivan eating a flower but i think that's just a silly doodle. nothing SUPER DUPER deep about it.)

(look at him. what is his PROBLEM <3)

as for the overarching meaning, flowers in general tend to symbolize innocence, purity and beauty. by that logic, FAKE flowers would symbolize a fabrication of purity.

a flower that is not only fake, but used as a spying/restriction device, a tool of oppression, symbolizes a prison painted as a paradise--such is the world of Anakt Garden.

[atrophiedemotion]

alien stage & the predictability of fandom

psa: this is all in good fun and in the name of media analysis, i am not trying to police enjoyment of media or fandom. this is just smth to make people think, and point out correlations between the alnst universe and fanon interpretation!

alien stage is a very interesting and thought provoking piece of media in that it, in universe, is literally a piece of media. we, the viewer, are watching the same thing the alien viewers in the alien stage universe are. we are merely observers in the same way the in-universe alien stage fans are.

this correlation between fictional viewer and real viewer is very fun to think about, especially when in extra content we even get to learn a bit about how alien fans interact with alnst- and it doesn't seem much different than how we do.

a big piece of alien stage is the fact that everything the characters experience; their love, misery, pain, and loss, is all commercialized in a way they cannot consent to and cannot control. they are raised and kept alive solely to be entertainment. (alnst, under it all, is also probably a nudge to how celebrities/ccs/people in the public eye are ripped of a lot of their autonomy)

and, well... how are we, as alien stage fans, much different than the in-universe alien fans of alien stage?

the more i think about it, the more it becomes clear that for the most part we aren't.

fanon in general has this tendency to lean towards light, funny, almost purified versions of characters and events. which makes sense, right? fandom is used for escapism for most people. it being fun and silly as a way to celebrate characters outside of their sometimes darker universes makes people happy, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

in the instance of alien stage, though there's still nothing wrong with wanting to bring lightness to these characters (they definitely deserve it), there is something to be said about it. about the way fans often mischaracterize or reduce characters down to certain defining traits. which, again, common in fanon.

but in alien stage... that's exactly what the characters have to deal with in-universe. their stories being talked over, discussed and fawned over without having a single say in it. and even when they do try to have a say in it (till's incessant 'rebellion', mizi attacking luka, ivan breaking his persona, sua silently sacrificing herself, etc), their attempts are only seen as more drama for the aliens to revel in.

i think a big part of alien stage is the fact that the fandom (for the most part) acts exactly as one would expect them to. though there is deep discussion, it's typically overshadowed by fluff and jokes. the characters are simplified and stripped of their intricacies that make them so painfully alive and human in the material.

mizi, our main character, starts out ignorant to the reality of the world around her and has her entire universe shattered in front of her, and im not just talking about sua. everything she's ever known is shown to her to be a fabrication, a lie she thoughtlessly bought because she was a sheltered child. her ptsd, anger, distress, misery, and character growth through discovery of the truth are often overlooked in favor of 'cute pink lesbian who will do anything for her girlfriend including a surprising right hook'.

till, the only current participant in alien stage who is outwardly uncooperative and resentful towards the segyein, is constantly subjected to horrific abuse and only finds solace in creation of art and his idolization in mizi. he remains contrary to the aliens and his owner as valiantly as he can but is seen as a 'tortured artist' to them. his strong will, caring nature, and passion somehow translate into a fanon 'pathetic wet cat tsundere twink'. (it's particularly painful to me that till's distressed attempts at autonomy turns into a pathetic try at punk rebellion in fanon but. i digress.)

ivan, possibly the most complex and contradictory character (as of now), struggles with horrible self worth issues and feeling inherently different from his human peers and channels it into a miserable unrequited love because till has the fortitude to fight back when ivan doesn't. he masks his entire self to survive while yearning for freedom and expression, but never allowing it for himself. his self loathing, intelligence, masking, and apathy are usually ignored and turned into 'hot emo yearning gay yandere'.

sua, the character we have the least time with but who leaves the biggest lasting impact, was raised by her segyein as a doll and not a human and never had any brightness in her life before she met mizi and started to see the world in a different way. she gives everything up for the person who taught her how to live in a world where she was seemingly often bored and unmotivated. her unconditional love, heartbreaking past, and somewhat flawed thought processes tend to be numbed down to 'deadpan snarky protective lesbian girlfriend'.

(and ofc similar things could be said about luka and hyuna but i dont feel like i have enough knowledge about them so i will leave that to y'all)

all of these mischaracterizations/simplified characters are typically done in an unserious way, usually harmless, and at the end of the day are for fun, so why does it matter?

because that is exactly what the alien viewers of alien stage do. misunderstand the cast and simplify them to fit their view. consider their onscreen tragedies their personal form of entertainment.

i'm not saying this to try to discourage people from doing this and enjoying alnst in whatever way they want, im saying it so that people can take a step back and think about this in the way that the creators likely intended. alien stage is a statement on media in general, not just itself. and it so so interesting to see its very own fandom play into the exact same thing it subtly tries to bring attention to.

[rockwgooglyeyes]

Hey Rocky, I’m back to talk about the Traces Till comic and also Till possibly being dead again. 

I love this comic a lot. It's really good! It's one of my favorites we’ve gotten so far. I really like small, contained stories within a larger story that help breathe new context into the main narrative and cast (I also really liked the Heavenly Garden comic). But when it comes to it possibly being Till’s “death comic,” the fact that it's not told from his perspective is where I start having conflicting feelings about it, specifically from a meta viewpoint.

It makes sense why they wrote it this way; it's a comic about his mother’s hopes and dreams for him, and I love that we got introduced to her and got a deeper look into her as a character since we may not be seeing her again. My issue comes from the fact that this and the majority of content we have about Till as a person is from OTHER character’s POV and not his own. And if this trend was continued into what may be his “death comic,” that feels kind of crazy.

The fact that we don’t get much insight into his perspective is honestly why my “Till is alive” reaction after watching Round 7 was so strong, because despite him being the third major character introduced, it feels like we’ve hardly gotten anything about him.

I feel like we have this problem when it comes to Mizi content as well, but because she’s the main character with this same issue, I thought it was a signal that Till was being set up to be more important than currently shown and that they would both be getting a lot more development from their own POVs later (I honestly thought that Till was going to be the deuteragonist of the series because of this).

Before Round 7, them holding out on this kind of Mizi and Till content made a lot more sense to me since they needed to develop Sua and give Ivan more impact for when he inevitably died, but post Round 7, I don’t know how to feel. If Till really is dead, wouldn’t it have been better for them to have given more insight into who he is so that his death could have been as impactful as possible? He’s not like Sua, whose death is a part of the essential groundwork of the story, and who can afford to have her POV given to us after death.

I don’t know; this is basically just more “I don’t know how to feel about Round 7, so I’m going to have to wait and see what they do next.”

(Also sorry that this is so long, and also if this comes off as me being negative, it's not supposed to be; Round 7 just sort of brought all these thoughts I’ve had to the front. Also again, I really like the Traces comic and Io as a character. My only issues with the comic are from a meta viewpoint. Hope you have a good day!! ❤️)

Hi hi, Geo!! Sorry that this took me a minute. I hope it's alright that I am just getting to this now :) I really don't mind this being long or some elements of reluctance/disappointment when it comes to the storytelling of the series! The funniest thing is, Vant (@ivanttakethis) and I have actually had discussions before about our nitpicks with the series- mostly our wariness when it comes to complaining combined with our difficulty in accepting that this is just where the series will let certain character arcs end. Admittedly that's mostly been about Ivan and how little time he was given as a character- while he does have probably the most POV screentime, we know so little about him and sometimes, it feels as though his death was just for the impact that it had on Till, which would be proven all the more pointless if Till really *is* dead. That's not what this ask is about, though, so I'll let that sleeping dog lie for now, but basically, I brought that up to say, I trust you and I have faith in the time that you've put in considering the series. You are not saying this just to be mean or get attention or something, you're saying this because you care about the series and the characters!!

Personally, I also think that Till's death comic not being from his perspective is really strange. It reinforces the way that Till hasn't really had much about himself from his own perspective but at the same time, it breaks another of the constant patterns in the series so far with the death comics being from the character's own point of view. As much as Till is a character that is constantly subverting the narrative patterns- in this instance, it feels wrong. If it makes sense, and it very well may not, to me one of the reasons why I am very hesitant to believe Till is dead at this point in time is because while this death comic, if it is his death comic, would disrupt the established pattern with the death comics, it wouldn't disrupt Till.

These elegies, obituaries almost, are all about showing the character's connections to other people, albeit in a twisted way. Ivan's connection was shown to be Sua and how he once believed they were similar, before that hope within him was crushed (later we also learned that Ivan views Sua as a sister, furthering that feeling of resentment and betrayal towards her- she was supposed to understand and yet, she didn't). Sua's connection was her older sister, as she was established to have something of a family, but her older sister is shown to be both a caring and traumatic figure to Sua- something we didn't know before (we knew about her sisters but we didn't necessarily know that Sua had real relationships with them). One could very well argue that Till's comic is from the point of view of his mom and that's the connection it's highlighting- and to a degree, that's true, but at the same time, the real connections that are highlighted are the ones that Till has with the other three kids.

Yes, Traces is about Io's relationship with her son but moreso, it's about Till's passion for music, how it tore him away from his mother and irreparably damaged his ability to socialize, and how he still made friends and found people who loved him in spite of that. It's more about Io's wishes for her son than her actual relationship with her son, which only serves to make it an even stranger addition to the obituaries. Like, I adore Io, I adore learning more about who shaped Till into who he is today, but if this is really Till's death comic, then it's hard not to feel cheated in a way.

As you mentioned, like Mizi, Till has very little content about him that's from his own perspective. (I also think it's really cool that you hoped he would become a deuteragonist because of this, that would be so fucking cool!!) Even Luka, who is one of the characters we have the least content of overall, has more stuff from his own point of view- and that's kind of crazy, isn't it? Not only that, but as I mentioned earlier, if Till's arc does end here (which it very well could) that would set a precedent for the rest of the narrative because Till is, like Hyuna, a narrative disruption. He challenged the status quo (killing Freddie, winning his round despite wearing white, being the first unrequited lover) and by extension, set precedents that continued onwards (Luka wearing white both times and dying neither time, Mizi wearing white in round 5 and escaping death, Ivan disrupting his round with violence and throwing said round with it, etc) and while breaking the pattern of the obituaries being from the dead character's point of view, while that would continue Till's role as a challenger of the status quo, it wouldn't show the way that ultimately, Till's death was a confirmation of the status quo- Icarus flying to close to the sun with his wax wings in an attempt to find freedom after living his whole life in a cage.

In my opinion, it would frankly be stupid for Traces to be Till's true death comic because perpetuates the false narrative that he's built up around himself and that's exactly what these comics are supposed to break down. Ivan's breaks down his princely image by showing the ugliness of his resentment, Sua's breaks down the purity of her sacrifice by showing that she was afraid to die and at the same time, that she was unwilling to live in a world without her paradise (Mizi). It wouldn't actually be stupid, because I'm sure that if Traces truly is Till's obit would make sense in the retrospect as Vivimeng expand on the series and build it out, but where we sit now, it wouldn't make sense with what they've established. I love Vivimeng and their penchant for challenging preconceived notions and previously held ideas but I will admit, it would feel very peculiar for them to be subverting the story that they already laid out? Then again, we're barely more than halfway through, so perhaps I shouldn't say much at all, it's not the best time to judge, is it?

[redrandomposts]

For Posthumous Kid AU - this actually implies that segyeins have the DNA of *all* contestants...can we have a MiziSua kid in the neighboring lab? Double the pain! (Also, Till&Mizi rolling through the same/very similar experience and bonding over it is always good.) ((Chartreuse eyes under elegant inky locks is also quite an image -u-.))

Ah, the pain and the bittersweet contentedness of living on...

mizisua kid, where mizi is raising them... and tillivan's kid too...

===

"Slow down!" Mizi yelled, shoulder-length hair fluttering in the wind as she ran for her kid. Compared to her twenties, her joints just didn't move the same. A decade or so of aging really wore her body down.

"Hurry up, ma, I see Sara!" Her precious little boy yelled, a bright smile lighting his face. Mizi could remember the day she found him - an infant curled up, short black hair and wide eyes curiously looking at everyone passing by. He was sucking on his thumb, chartreuse (as Ivan called it) eyes peering into her soul. It was the nose, or the lips, or even the ears that told her all she needed to know; this was her and Sua's child. Looking at him now, with wide brim glasses and thin summer clothes, she could see how they both mixed to create someone wonderful.

From the horizon, a taller child ran into view. Long black hair that shone gray in the sunlight, with a black and white dress that billowed in the wind marked her silhouette. Most of all, eyes that were as blue as the sky and pupils red as a sunset told Mizi and Till all they needed to know; this was Ivan's flesh and blood mixed with Till's. Only a year older than her own, Sara managed to show everything that Ivan could have - hope, joy, and love that she knew was returned unconditionally.

Mizi wondered if Ivan would have shone so bright had he been alive.

"Clematis!" Sara yelled, tackling her best friend. Behind her, Till was watching forlornly, and Mizi could relate. It reminded her of her and Sua when they were little; the way they fell into the grass, grins big and bright and so so so full of love.

"Ma showed me how to make flower crowns!" Clematis said, turning to his mom who held a basket of flowers they've grown in the gardens. "Ma, ma, I wanna make one for Sara!"

Mizi laughed, a bell-like sound that has rung for both eternal happiness and mourning. "Of course, Clematis. You can show Sara how to make one too, right?"

"Uh huh!" Clematis nodded, and soon both of the children's attention were engrossed in each other and their flowers.

After a moment, Mizi turned to Till. "Till," she breathed. His eyes were red and puffy, yet the small uplift of his lips spoke volumes. "What nightmare did you have last night...?"

"I was... dreaming that Ivan was here, too, joining in the activities as if he were a child also," Till said, chuckling at the thought. "It's almost his anniversary, y'know?"

She did know. Mizi also knew Sua's, could hear the gunshot every morning she awoke the day they performed their stage together and never finished it. She could feel the cold sweat and warm blood as Hyuna was injured, delaying their rescue and leaving Ivan's corpse behind; she could feel the guilt as though it were bugs crawling up her skin and spine and muscles and flesh and blood.

Till turned to Mizi. "I wrote him a song, and painted something with all of us... Sua, too. I made a copy for you, too, Mizi. It's just that..." he hesitated, taking out the rolled up print to display it. "...I can't really remember their faces. I'm so grateful that I have Sara, or else I'd forget his eyes and the way his hair fell, the smirk that he'd always have when taking something..."

Mizi had the same problem, too. When she imagined Sua, she'd imagine her face before she died. She forgot the way she smiled before, when she didn't look so tense, forgot her embrace and touch and everything else. It's been eight years, and the way she remembers best is through archived videos of her only performance and her son, Clematis.

"I know Ivan would love Sara," Till breathed, looking at the sky wistfully. The clouds peacefully floated by, an image so unreal when before all Mizi saw were a fake hologram of it. "He'd love Clematis, too. He'd sneak candy and sing lullabies and read bedtime stories, cook breakfast and lunch and dinner, learn to bake their favorite treats..."

Tears welled up in both their eyes, dazzling in the sun. The laughter of the children seemed so far yet so close too, and if she listened closely, she could hear Sua and Ivan, too. Sua would adore the children, she knew. Sua... maybe she wouldn't be as good as Ivan at children, but she'd teach them the magical way she always solved math equations so easily, teach them faith and hope and that there is always someone for you, too.

===

i came up with sara when thinking of what till would name her. it comes from black sorrow, because sara sounds kind of like sorrow; he hazily listened to it as ivan performed, trying his best to grasp consciousness for... something. he didn't know then, but he knew now.

clematis, although sounding kind of like a girl's name because it refers to a flower, feels like the most obvious choice.

idk if i was really in character for them, but... it's been eight years since the events. they've had time to grow and reflect.

[ur-local-weird-person]

mizisua analysis :) (spoilers!!)

hello :), ik i'm a little late, but the mizisua video already released and here is a small analysis i made, this post will be divided in 2 parts: the actual analysis of the video and how it proves a theory i had, so without furder ado, lets start （。＾▽＾）

the actual analysis lol ─── ☆: .☽ . :☆ﾟ. ─── ☆: .☽ . :☆ﾟ.

i think the video was a nightmare of mizi, my reasons are:

mizi and sua canonicly met at anakt garden, and we dont have information of them meeting before

it doesn't seem logical to me that mizi cried so hard when sua went away, taking into account it was the first time they saw eachother

at the end of the video we can se mizi layed in a couch, crying, as if she just woke up from a nightmare (i will talk more about that scene later)

other thing i noticed is that the video references certain parts of sua's amd mizi's story, for example, mizi being the one who approached sua while the melody of my clemantis (specificly the part of when mizi and sua met in round 1), melody that also reproduces when mizi and sua separate (and the part that played was the same as when sua died), that's why i think the video was a nightmare of mizi who reflected some parts of their story and how painful their separation was (ik it hurts ;-;).

at the end, we see mizi laying and crying after waking up from the nightmare, and since i was curious about that scene i edited the photo and i found some things :)

we can observe that:

mizi is wearing her round 5 oufit and her hair looks a little messy (like in the end of round 5)

she seems to be in a place that looks like if its abandonded, or slightly hidden, it looks like a hideout to me (or at least, not the place where the contestants would be kept before the next round)

there is an earth poster in the wall

taking this into account...could this mean that mizi is alive and she's currently in the hideout of the people who rescued her???? this seems to make sense but idk (i hope i'm right :') )

small theory :) ─── ☆: .☽ . :☆ﾟ. ─── ☆: .☽ . :☆ﾟ.

in previous posts, i mentioned that i had a theory abt sua, my theory is that sua was mistreated by her guardians and that mizi was the only person she ever loved, also sua knew abt the dangers abt alien stage, but decided to not tell mizi (if you want i could explain why i thought that). the video proves my theory bc it shows that sua's guardians never loved her (her situation is similar to ivan's/luka's) but it also shows that mizi's guardians were nice to her (could mizi be manipulated by them into thinking alien stage wasn't dangerous? maybe). finally, i would like to note how it was shown the differences between growing in a negligent/abusive enviroment and a loving one (sua and mizi respectively), i think the way it was shown and how it affected mizi and sua was pretty goood :)

that's it, tell me if you have other theories, bye!

[crustyfloor]

I'm not onboard the "Till survived" train because that just sounds like delusion, but of all the characters we've seen die he's the only one who's survival could work narratively. His death isn't conclusive the same way Sua and Ivan's are, but that itself doesn't mean his survival. Having him die when his character is in that state could totally be in order to get a visceral reaction out of viewers (because I disagree with the notion that his death is framed like this because it's "rushed").

Going back to the artwork in his All-In cover as well as one other previous official art the theory of the splatter being where he'd get shot was true, but the fact that in both arts depicting the area as tapped up/covered is interesting to me. These arts are meant as foreshadowing so I don't believe it impossible that the tapping could also foreshadow something.

Idk, I just feel like too soon to determine what's going to happen with him (if anything at all)

Definitely agree with the last point, Round 7 just released this morning, so I'd give it a few more updates until we come to a conclusion about that much. The suddenness of Till's death was definitely intentional; the reasoning really is in the name "blink gone" to invoke a strong reaction that puts you in Mizi's shoes, but it doesn't necessarily mean there is unfinished business, it probably feels rushed because people aren't used to this kind of pacing with lack of flashbacks since Round 7 is more focused on the present. Till alive theory feels unlikely but not completely out of the realm of possibility, to me at least, because of the ambiguity of his death and earlier foreshadowing.

There is a whole thing about the bubbles of that bubble gun, meaning it's non-fatal. The tape theory also feels plausible to me, but the tape, in particular, can take on multiple meanings, I assumed its role was to symbolize Till getting an injury, it could also mean he heals that injury, or it could also mean something else entirely.

It's not incredibly certain; But Till's circumstances feel more open to possibility than Ivan or Sua's. Mizi and HyunA are right there but theres this and that so.

[citrusinicake]

just finished round 6 of alien stage and man i have so many thoughts (not just of round 6 but of alien stage in general) but theyre kinda disjointed and may be a bit nonsensical to anyone who isnt me lol but i figured i may as well put them here

huge "idk if the flower symbolism is the same in korea" disclaimer but i do still think it fits regardless

mizi and sua adoration crossing over into idolatry/pedestal worship, love in remembrance, hope blooming from despair

mizi worships sua the way a human does a god but sua worships mizi the way a god does a human, but what does being a god in a godless universe even mean, what does being human in a universe that sees you as nothing more than a pet even mean

the first four lines of round 1 i believe is significant throughout the whole story "Oh my Clematis / hope bloomed from the abyss / Oh my Clematis / always be by my side" sua sings the former two lines and mizi sings the latter two, sua is despair (prominent black in design, often depicted with shineless eyes in art esp when not around mizi, godhood, arbiter of change, she haunts mizi's narrative, the abyss, even so there is the shine of starlight in the void), mizi is hope (very "floral" color pallet, often depicted with the shiniest sparkliest eyes in art esp when light shines on her glasses, the clematis, "bloomed" after sua is killed and loses what is covering her eyes)

i think the fact that we never really get to see from sua's perspective is part of her "mythology", that we never see much aside from her love for mizi, that we wouldnt truly know if shes anything more than a devotee if the supplemental material wasnt a thing

ivan and till reaching out for something impossible, for something that gives them hope in an otherwise stifling circumstance, for something that showed kindness in a cruel world, for something to fight for, for something that keeps them going, idealism, the want to be broken apart by the person that they think can mend them

ivan's pupils are as red as the meteors which may burn bright and are magnificent but are ultimately destined to fall, people often wish

saying that the gods are looking down upon someone is often a way of conveying their misfortune

till & mizi and ivan & sua are often depicted with parallels to each other

till and mizi both have green eyes, have an asociation with flowers (symbolism, the red flowers in the garden), both far more emotional than their counterparts, both dressed in black (like theyre going to a funeral) on the round they sing (not even compete) with their counterpart, on the round their counterpart dies, directly attacked a contestant, get severely depressed after losing their loved ones, have a hallucination of their loved one after someone triggers them, directly attacked the person that triggered them

ivan and sua were both given abundance not in the caring sense but in the showpony sense, have an association with stars, and were wearing white on the round they died (like they were going to a wedding), and (assuming ivan assessed what sua was doing correctly) both sacrificed themselves for their loved ones (sua wanted to be remembered [i wonder if she at the very least felt happy that her lover will always remember her, regardess of how it came about, if she felt happy that it was her that died and not mizi, i wonder if she truly had hope that they could both get out of the round alive or if she just went along with it for mizi's sake], ivan wanted to be seen [i wonder if he at the very least felt happy that his loved one finally saw him just him for once, i wonder if he kissed till not just for tills sake but for his own too, i wonder how he felt that he never really got to leave a mark on till despite seemingly wanting to since that "choke" absolutely did not leave anything])

i dont really have much to say about hyuna and luka for now aside from theyre a perfect representation of the two sides of the culture clashes going on and i love them both for vastly different reasons (hyuna is awesome and very cool while luka. is not.)

[mufflerly-juu]

An Alien Stage Ramble/Analysis, in light of Round 6 Happening (and my alnst friend not being awake yet):

Beware for spoilers!

Even though I'm pretty sure that MiziSua are my favorite pairing overall, I can't deny that Ivan and Till caught my eye quite effectively. I haven't had much contact with the fandom, so I can't really speak in detail about how the intricacies of their relationship are portrayed in fanon, but from what I've seen... I think there's a key element that people miss. Round 6 depicted this very brutally and I can't stop thinking about it, so I will now go into detail about my perception of IvanTill in ALNST canon. It's relevant to me because I took psychic damage!

Putting it very simply, IvanTill are a mirror of MiziSua. They're a onesided MiziSua, and the unrequited love between them is the core of the relationship. While Mizi and Sua's theme is loving and losing (and making that loss into fuel), Ivan and Till's is the tragedy of having eyes for someone else. Ivan may have been the one to hold the heavier share of unspoken feelings, as acutely aware of his impossible desires as he was, and he may have also been the dead one in the end; but Till is the victim of this tragedy. Till is the most hopeless character in Alien Stage, as it currently stands, and I find that quite interesting.

I've been fascinated by Ivan ever since Black Sorrow dropped, in no small part because I'm a sucker for utterly hopeless, unrequited love. Ivan's character complements this quite nicely: since he was a child, the idea of something bigger than him was what made him feel alive, as shown by how mesmerized he was by the meteor shower over him, at the very first flashback in the Black Sorrow MV. Till's always been rebellious and aggressive, larger than life in many ways, so it's no wonder Ivan loved him so much. Even when Till rejected the bold idea of leaving with him, Ivan still loved him. Even when Till willingly cages himself and makes both of their fates worse, Ivan still loves him and wants to stick by him. In my opinion, this consistency proves that Ivan's been resigned to dying in Alien Stage since that night Till went back. He knows that the boy who gave him a reason to live won't leave, so he won't leave, either. He knows his love is not reciprocated, but it keeps him alive, so he keeps going. To be hit by Till and to hit Till is all he can realistically hope for from him, so he provokes Till. Down to the very end, he didn't even care about finishing the song or increasing his chances of survival. He knew time was up, and so, he fulfilled his one and only wish. He could never hold Till, so he grabbed him by the neck until his very last breath. He kissed the boy who never loved him back, but it didn't matter that he never loved him. All that mattered was that single moment, the single moment he had to make Till see his love. In the end, Till still tried to push him away, but he couldn't have cared less. He died satisfied. That was the best way his life could have ended in such a cruel world.

And Till... was left standing in the rain, shellshocked. Ivan's blood was spilling out next to his shoes. From his reaction, it seemed like he didn't see it coming at all. He didn't know about Ivan's true feelings. He had a few lingering moments of his hands around his neck to show for them, but it was enough to leave him stunned in front of Ivan's corpse. If not for the sudden revelation, then for the loss of those same feelings. There is no love strong enough to survive Alien Stage's cruelty.

After that, though, what is even left for him? Being alive just means that the aliens can toy with him more, it just extends the miserable life he finds himself in without the presence of Mizi. If he wins the next round, then he'll be the new winner of Alien Stage. The winner of a contest he despises. He'll be on top of the system that's enslaved him his entire life, he'll get to live to be thrust into another contest again. He'll get to live to become an empty shell, with Mizi out of reach.

The difference between him and Ivan is how aware they are. Till doesn't give up, time and time again, because Mizi is what drives him forward. There is no indication of him knowing how deep Mizi and Sua's relationship really went, so it's highly likely that he thinks he can get her to like him back. Till's love allows him to keep going, but without Mizi, he doesn't have a purpose. His expression is dead for most of Cure, and the Mizi he sees is one that doesn't exist anymore. He's chasing after ghosts, and it's just a matter of time, until we see what will become of him when he realizes this. There's good outcomes in all of this, but they're not many. Till is locked into a position he never wanted, all for the love he held for Mizi.

Till is the victim of the story. He just doesn't know it yet.

Either way, I wanted to close this off by going back to my main point. I'm not putting this onto any tags just yet because I'm too afraid of the internet, but I still wanna say my piece. Round 6 cemented just how onesided IvanTill is, and I think that's a very important detail to keep in mind. I'm not saying that shipping IvanTill is stupid, but that you should keep their dynamic in mind. It's a crucial part of how they function in the narrative, since ALNST is such a character driven story. You could play around a lot with how to make Till like Ivan in that way while still keeping the initial unrequited love relevant.

I don't even know why I wrote all of this! Thank you for reading. IvanTill toxic doomed yaoi 2024

[timmie-p]

now that i caught up on work i’m finally going to put out my thoughts abt the new alien stage videos lol (i’m doing top 3 first and then i’m probably going to not do mizisua at least for another few days (or weeks) because i procrastinate like that)

stuff that stuck out to me immediately:

the coins: obviously this is really just a game show to the aliens, and a profitable one at that. they’re making money off of the humans, and presumably the winner takes the big prize for their owner? general consensus is that mizi’s owner is rather decent; they wouldn’t just randomly put her in a death game so i think the reason she was chosen could be for the money

interesting shot: at first i thought it was the throne upon a pile of bodies of the losers, but when i went back to screenshot they look less like humans and more like aliens? could be body bags too, idk. the thing on the bottom right looks kinda like a microphone so i’m leaning towards dead humans

human terrorists: definitely hyuna’s group. we know that she and luka were close; i think they were at anakt together before? the background in the picture featuring them looks like anakt and they’re wearing the same clothes with the collar. they were probably there a generation or so before mizi sua till ivan. ivan found a way out — maybe hyuna did too earlier on (fun hc maybe he simply found the escape that hyuna made before him). im thinking she made it out and established/joined the terrorist group. luka definitely knows something; he wasn’t surprised at all when hyuna saved mizi

aliens protesting/debating: not all aliens consider humans inferior slaves? there seems to be a push for human rights or at least a stop to alnst

ad for anakt for sure: google translate says “institution specialising in human development” and the clothes the child is wearing are very much reminiscent of the anakt garden uniform. anakt advertises itself as a place for nurturing humans, although it looks more to be a feeder to alnst. ivan was sold/given to anakt by his previous owner and everyone else basically grew up there from young. i think aliens send their pet humans to anakt to be trained and if they do well with their singing training ig they go into alnst?

luka: i don’t have much to say on ivan and till’s introductions but luka’s i find is really interesting. he’s alone at the top, the winner of the previous season after he’s eliminated his opponents. the steps leading up to him are labelled with the anakt garden symbol and he’s stuck in a black void, contrasting with the caption “living his endless glory days” — no matter how far he goes, he’s still trapped in alnst and anakt. his interview that we got previously shows that he chose to return to alnst and thinks of it as a chance to “repay” the aliens for the love and support they’ve given humans. how much of that is true? he’s good at talking and keeping himself alive for sure, so why return to the death game? i don’t believe his words about repaying aliens a bit; he definitely has an underlying motive. is he that confident that he’ll win? (theory: maybe he’s helping hyuna?)

announcer: i think this girl is an announcer or something on the show — she’s shown more shouting and hyping up the crowd. her design seems too detailed to be just another throwaway npc; i think she’s going to come into play later

very cinematic shot of sua’s death. i like how it’s framing the mic. i don’t have much to say other than that lol although i might come back to this

mizi as centrepiece: interesting how this shot zooms in on mizi at the centre of all of them, freaking out. till and ivan are placed side by side — of course, given their relationship and the fact that they’re going against each other next. + nice contrast of white and black. hyuna and luka are side by side after — there’s definitely something going on with them (theory: luka is a mole for hyuna’s group?). that leaves mizi alone at the centre (alone without sua, mind you). they’re all interconnected in some way, mizi having connections to all of them. she’s till’s obsession, ivan’s “rival”, competed against luka, saved by hyuna. she’s finally broken away from alnst and anakt, taken in by hyuna. she’s in a lot of turmoil, still traumatised from losing sua and a bit unstable because of luka. she’s left behind everything she knows and is probably facing a huge choice about whether to join hyuna’s rebellion. im guessing she’s going to play a huge role in the future; probably coming in last minute and collapsing the whole thing. i just noticed too, i think hyuna is holding a mic? last minute contestant perhaps?

overall, good tidbits, lots to read into.

theories:

i’m definitely thinking that luka and hyuna are somehow working together, and if not then at least he knows something about what hyuna is doing

mizi is going to come back big time, probably more towards the end

the aliens protesting alnst might come back later on as well, although idk how much they’ll influence the plot. i don’t think most people really noticed that part in comparison to the other scenes so doubtful that they’ll suddenly be inserted with huge impact

the big one: i think ivan is going to win the round against till. i was wavering a bit before but with all the emphasis on ivan being the fan favourite i do think he’s going to win. till is very much an outwardly rebellious character as well that i don’t think the aliens want going far, and honestly i don’t see him going up against luka. luka v ivan is the more dynamic matchup, with luka being the previous winner while ivan is the favourite. they’re both very smart as well (not that i’m trying to talk down till he’s my wet little guy) so it’ll be an interesting (sorry i keep using interesting my vocabulary is small) battle of wits as well as skill. their musical styles also fit together well; it would be hard to write a song fitting both luka and till’s styles, but between luka and ivan they share enough similarities. also, the white/black contrast again. till’s motivation has been mizi the whole time, but now that he thinks mizi is dead i think he’s going to struggle, probably lash out, ultimately die. sad moment for ivan, drama, grahhh im sad abt my bf, grahhhhhh i want to beat luka, drama, etc

that’s all for now, may or may not come back to this. mizisua next (the next round will probably be out by the time i even start writing)

[archivedsorrow]

“ mmh— ” he groaned, scrunching up his face as till's palm came into contact with it. he did end up half-rolling off of his lap, though not quite, given that lack of force applied. this has left ivan in a strange, awkward position, that he really tried to do nothing about. if this was one of the last few days they had to just be together, then he saw no reason to not act a little silly.

“ alright, alright, ” he conceded eventually, waving his hands around a little. “ listen to me, then? ” a faint smirk played at his lips, gently turning his head to once more look up at till. “ tell me what you think. ” once he'd gotten his answer, he finally rolled off his friend's lap completely, and sat back on his heels, one hand placed over his chest before he began to sing.

and just like that, the first round was over. he... knew the outcome for the loser wouldn't be pretty, but, well. there was something to be said about such a clean shot. straight through the neck— similar to what he's seen in his guardian's line of work. it was perhaps the splatter of blood staining all of mizi's face that was the biggest shock to him. he couldn't quite imagine how that must've felt.

how foolish of you, sua, he thought, shaking his head as her dead body dropped to the ground, mizi's own, devastated form following soon after. i tried to warn you, he reminisced of their little chat that they had just prior to the competition. he remembered her quite shaken by his words, so perhaps he'd held a little hope that she'd be better than this. and yet...

he supposed it proved useful, if only a tad. it gave him an idea that... if he were to stand against till later— he'd have to go about it a little differently. ensure less of a shock... even if it didn't really matter; the man would move on from him quickly anyway. mizi got to live, and he knew how much till liked that girl. so as far as ivan was concerned, everything was just fine right now. hopefully she would win her next round, while till would win all of his and then... well, who knows.

the more rational part of him could see till sacrificing himself in the same way for mizi to live. would ivan be alright with that? no, of course not. selfishly, he wanted till to get out of this entire charade alive. but there was only so much he could do if he'd already been planning on forfeiting his own chance at survival in order to ensure till's own. after that, he could do nothing more, but hope. believe.

he shook his head, arms crossed as the pods that they were kept in to watch began to move, transporting the survivors to the backstage in order to begin preparation for round 2, that was just due. it was till's turn, according to the lineup.

“ hey, ” he was quick in finding the fair-haired male. “ how are you holding up? ” while ivan remained apathetic to it all, and perhaps he should've been more worried about mizi's wellbeing, he was more interested in ensuring he at least exchanged a few words with till before he'd be sent on stage.

  ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎no  matter  how  expected  his  response  was,  annoyance  still  coloured  till’s  face  at  it.  a  flicker  of  irritation  tugged  at  sharp  features.  always  unbothered  —  he  sort  of  wished  ivan  would,  at  the  very  least,  hesitate  in  his  answer.  even  just  a  pause,  anything  to  show  a  crack  in  that  frustratingly  calm  exterior.  then  again,  the  black-haired  man  was  popular  among  their  peers  and  segyein.  ivan  had  an  undeniable  magnetism,  a  way  of  carrying  himself  that  seemed  effortless,  unfair.  on  top  of  that,  he  was  also  just talented.  sure,  till  was  good  enough  at  messing  around  with  a  guitar,  but  in  the  end,  it  was  just  that  —  messing  around.

  ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎‎ ‎he  already  knew  his  talents  paled  in  comparison  to  those  of  his  peers.  he’d  need  to  do  more  to  make  it  past  each  round,  to  earn  the  opportunity  to  face  off  against  mizi.  something  aggressive.  he’d  need  to  take  his  opponent’s  entire  chance  away.  when  all  ivan  needed  to  do  was  sing.  it’s  no  wonder  he  isn’t  nervous.

  ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎  ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎with  a  sigh,  till  brings  his  hand  down,  pushing  the  head  on  his  lap  to  face  away  —  almost  trying  to  shove  him  off,  just  without  all  of  the  usual  force.   ❛❛   i’ve  practised  enough  ❜❜  comes  his  grumble,  low  and  edged  with  frustration,  the  words  tumbling  out  like  a  confession  he  didn’t  mean  to  make. 

 ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ he  looks  down  now  that  black  hues  aren’t  staring  back. till  wouldn’t  really  mind  playing  some  more,  but  they  don’t  even  know  which  songs  will  be  assigned  to  who  yet,  not  even  who  will  be  up  against  who.  at  the  risk  of  cheating  or  fights  breaking  out,  those  details  are  released  on  the  night  of  the  first  four  rounds. 

[ivanttakethis]

@k0fii YOU GET ME

Ivan haunting the narrative but he’s still alive! He’s a ghost of his former self in the eyes of those that knew him!!

He becomes a god to the audience in the same way Till was to him and Mizi was to Till and Sua was to Mizi.

The others have to decide if they want to try to save their friend, even if they don’t recognize him anymore.

Will Till go back to Alien Stage for Ivan the same way Ivan went back to Anakt Garden for Till all those years ago?

Round 7 Predictions

Since we’re only halfway through Alien Stage, I don’t think there will be a Round 7 winner.

There’s a ton of material Q and V could get into if both Till and Luka survive in some way or another. I also think there’s still a lot more left to learn about the lore of Alien Stage as a competition and how the whole system functions for the competition part to end so quickly.

I think Till will be rescued by the rebels at some point, either before or during Round 7. He’ll get to reconnect with Mizi, see how much she’s changed, and hopefully come to see her as less of a godly savior and more of a person.

Freeing Till would also force him to confront his own wants and dreams beyond escaping the competition and taking Mizi with him. What does Till want out of life now that both he and Mizi are free? How does he process all of the shit that went down in the previous rounds, especially Round 6?

As for Luka I think one of two things will happen: (1) he won’t be rescued by the rebels at all or (2) he’s offered the opportunity to leave with them but he refuses.

The second option is definitely more interesting as it will tell us more about Luka’s mindset, but also Hyuna’s if she can choose whether or not a rescue attempt is made for him. It would possibly give us insight into how they feel about each other given the current circumstances.

Either way, I don’t think Luka will leave Alien Stage or rebel against the aliens.

What would be his reason to? He’s the face of the whole competition. His status within the alien society has provided him with a lot of access that he could possibly not be able to live without, given his chronic illnesses.

But more than that, I think he’ll stay for personal reasons. Fame? Accolades? Ego? Maybe a mix of all three? Or perhaps some long buried guilt or remorse? There’s still a lot we don’t know about his feelings and motivations.

Personally I think he’s too interesting of a character to kill off so soon (a.k.a. I want to study him under a microscope).

Now this next part is me being delusional, so I’m putting it under the cut.

So,

If Till is rescued before Round 7 starts, that leaves Luka as the winner by default. But that’d probably be pretty boring as a finale for the audience.

How do they spice things up? By healing/reviving Ivan and putting him up against Luka.

Think about it: they’re both insanely popular in-universe, they’re somewhat equally matched in terms of singing ability, and they’re both considered pretty boys.

Think of the fashion! Think of the theatrics!! The material is LITERALLY. RIGHT. THERE.

In my opinion they’re two of the most complex characters in the cast, but they haven’t had much (if any) direct interaction with one another. I’d like to see how their similarities and differences stack up once they’re side by side, and what that tells us about each of them.

They’re also both weirdos (in their own ways), so putting them head to head would be the ultimate Freak (derogatory) vs. Freak (affectionate) final showdown.

And if Ivan were to win, he would essentially take over Luka’s role as the face of Alien Stage. How would that affect him personally? What would he do with his life after?

If he learns that Till managed to escape with the rebels, would Ivan still want to escape on his own? Or would he be content to stay put with the knowledge that Till is free?

Similar to Till with Mizi, who is Ivan beyond helping and supporting Till? What are his hopes and dreams?

I went more in depth about how Ivan could potentially be brought back and what ramifications it could have on the story depending on how it’s done in this post, if anyone wants to read that.

[rockwgooglyeyes]

"maybe he can heal with mizi. the two of them can grow together. i want both of them to be happy in the rebellion and to grow without sua and till. i want them to feel like they’re truly themselves."

^thisssss

Pearl is a really, really good analog for Ivan because they're both characters who are head over heels in love with someone who may or may not love them back, someone who they're willing to die for and fight for, again and again and again.

Pearl is forced to move on from Rose when Steven comes into the picture and even after Rose's death, she doesn't really "move on." By the end of the series and Steven Universe Future, she's in a healthier place, certainly, but I would say that she's still in love with Rose. She still loves Rose. She just doesn't let that define her, anymore, she's moved on because she's grown past the place that she was keeping herself in, the same place that she was in while Rose was alive.

It would be amazing for Ivan to get a story like that, allowing him to grow past the person he once was, the person he made himself be. I would say that I differ from June insofar that I don't think that necessarily means falling out of love or removing that person from your life (and maybe I am misinterpreting June's words), because there are people I'm no longer in contact with, for better or worse, that I still love (romantically, platonically, whatever) but that doesn't mean I'm going to seek them out and make them part of my life again, just because I love them. Loving is something you do as much as it's something you feel and I think that Ivan could still fully love Till without doing it the way he is right now. I think he could still love Till and grow past that place of codependency and self destruction. Maybe he couldn't but that's a whole other hypothetical can of worms.

The idea of Mizi and Ivan being given the chance, the time and the space to grow past the people that they have defined themselves as for so long (people that are inherently and irrevocably attached to someone else), it makes me so excited and eager. Defining yourself by your relationship to someone else is never healthy and for either of these two to be given the ability to find themselves outside of, while still having the anchor of one another? Well, that's the dream, innit?

maybe ivan can get a pearl steven universe type arc without till?? he can still think about till and be reminded of him in others but he can still learn that he can be rebellious. he can live for himself. but even then i think it would be kind of normal for him to think of others like till and unsha even when he’s being independent. i just really want to know what he’d be like if he just. rebelled. if he just starts being himself.

in a song of pearl’s, (do it for her) i think of the lyric “when you live for someone, you’re prepared to die,” a lot when i think of ivan. he was ready to live and die for till. he never really gave a thought about what he really wanted to do if there was no till. it’s hard to change your view on life after seeing it one way since you were a child, so it would obviously be hard for ivan to start living for nobody but himself. he would still think of till. he would still think of unsha. but that isn’t to say that he can’t be an independent person.

i think in another pearl song, (it’s over isn’t it?) another lyric seems fitting for ivan? “who am i now in this world without her? petty and dull with the nerve to doubt her. what does it matter? it’s already done.” (cutting off the last bit there since till doesn’t have a son) with that lyric it pretty much shows how even as your own person, after loving someone basically your entire life, it’s still hard not to think about them, especially if they’re gone now. it’s gonna take ivan a while to get till completely out of his mind.

i want ivan to move on. but i know it’s going to take him so long. and that’s okay because it’s a learning process. i remember when i was younger, i really loved someone and was friends with them for years. this love was platonic, of course, but it was still all encompassing and i really couldn’t think of anyone but them. but then they left my life and never looked back to see how much they hurt me. it’s been nearly three years since they left and i’m not over it just yet. healing from something like that takes a while. it’s going to take ivan a while. but i still want it to happen.

in the show, pearl sometimes sees rose in other people. that can very much happen with ivan. he can look at people and they can remind him of till. he’s allowed to think of till. the thing is, he has to realize that those people aren’t till. and he doesn’t have to give everything for them. they can just be friends, and that’s okay.

maybe he can heal with mizi. the two of them can grow together. i want both of them to be happy in the rebellion and to grow without sua and till. i want them to feel like they’re truly themselves.

[ivanttakethis]

I SEE IT!! I SEE THE VISION!!!

The side by side is so crazy it’s literally the same picture 😭😭

(Only difference is Peeta could never match Ivan’s freak lmao)

An Everlark style slow burn would be PEAK IvanTill imo.

Ivan being a constant in Till’s life, even if it was just in his periphery, like Peeta was with Katniss.

Ivan (Peeta) does everything he can to keep Till (Katniss) alive, both before and during the games. Ivan and Peeta’s shared charisma and self-sacrificial tendencies!!

Till and Katniss realizing too late/almost too late what the formers’ plans were. Kind of wet rags at first, but then slowly coming to realize over time that they care about their partners and eventually falling in love with them… I’M SO NOT NORMAL ABOUT THIS!!!!

Till with a big ass sledgehammer sounds metal as hell, I’m in!! You’re so right about his general attitude being very blunt and forceful and a sledgehammer matches that perfectly.

Ivan is canonically an unsettling character, so I wanted to lean into that. His District 2 militant background makes him similar to Sua (sharp, exacting, lethal), but in a more brutal/tactile way (physical touch is kind of his thing). He doesn’t really *need* a weapon when he *is* a weapon. But he purposefully becomes a shield for Till.

And him stealing things Till has stolen is so on brand for him lol.

I’m drafting a post right for potential outfit ideas (let me know if you have any more thoughts/ideas, the solar idea for Hyuna and Hyunwoo is GENIUS), but for now, please accept more of my ramblings about this AU:

Unsha and Urak still have their rivalry and want Ivan and Till to destroy each other.

Ivan tells Unsha that he plans to help Till get to the end and then kill him, to make the biggest impact.

He’s lying. Like a liar.

Mizi lays Sua to rest in a field of clematis flowers and sings to her.

She hunkers down nearby to watch over Sua, to make sure no one disturbs her resting in peace. One tribute tries to loot Sua’s body for anything valuable and Mizi beats them to death with her gifted brass knuckles (Mizi/Till parallels go brrr).

A little later on is when Ivan and Till happen upon her. Ivan even pays his respects to Sua, and tells Mizi he regrets that he didn’t get to know her better before she died.

When the rebels infiltrate the arena, Hyuna uses her vocal mimicry talent to lure Mizi away from a sleeping Ivan and Till by making her voice sound like Sua singing.

Isaac and Dewey create a technological distraction for the cameras and overseers and Mizi is quietly pulled out of the dome.

The canon never sounds to announce her death.

Till wakes up first and is distraught to find that Mizi is gone. He wants to search for her, but he receives a mysterious gift from an anonymous sponsor containing and note only he can read. The contents of it seem to set him at ease. Who is it from? 🧐

At the final two, Ivan tries to sacrifice himself so Till will win. But Till just… Won’t? Let him??

Ivan ate some nightshade berries — the same ones Acorn tried to poison Till with — and is coughing up blood (canon reference, yippee!). Till is furious and starts yelling at him, “You’re not leaving me again, you bastard!”

His anger catches Ivan completely off guard, giving Till the opportunity to tackle him and force the antidote down his throat.

Urak gave Till the antidote as a sponsorship gift earlier in the game after Acorn’s failed poisoning attempt. Using the antidote on Ivan of all people is a major act of rebellion for Till.

The Capitol audience is extremely moved by Till’s words, and they don’t want either of the star crossed lovers to die, so the game gets called after that.

Capitol shippers would lose their minds when Ivan and Till do the Victory Tour.

found my old hunger games au.... will I post about it? maybe one day....

[dissociyboi]

I mean... I'm convinced Till survives bc foreshadowing suggested Luka would win and Till would be shot non-fatally over his brand, and minus confirmation of his survival or death, that's exactly what happened. While you could argue the foreshadowing for his death isn't necessarily non-lethal (the bubble gun, the tape, the target made from flashing light), with how subtle everything else has been, I think there's still a strong argument for it. How much it was emphasized that Till was still alive when he fell, and then everyone else's observations you criticized as being weak, have only strengthened my position on it.

To counter your arguments, unlike Sua and Ivan who quickly became surrounded by a pool of their own blood, there is a surprisingly lack of blood around Till once he "dies". This doesn't make much sense if he was shot fatally in the neck. I also don't believe Till's earpiece was a stylistic choice: it appears to serve the same function as his collar, especially with how it goes from red to green once he sees Mizi. Plus, dismissing the flickering as dramatic effect is strange, when everything else in Alien Stage has been so deliberate, since the story is limited to music videos and official art.

Personally, I think the justifications for his death are weaker than those for him being alive. That it makes sense thematically, that it's not vivimeng's style, and that Mizi has always been the main character, all suggest to me weak writing in which Ivan and Till's characters have been reduced to nothing more than plot devices for Mizi's character development. Aside from having faith in the creators' writing, vivimeng also adore Till, and I doubt they would throw away his character potential so carelessly. As for your point about why not Ivan or Sua, it was pointed out to me since Round 7 occurs not long after Round 6, with how suspicious it is that Ivan was shot non-lethally, it is a possibility Ivan could be saved. As for why not Sua, there has been speculation between the android official art and the light-hearted Patreon "spoilers" comic, that Sua may indeed come back.

As for what would the stakes be if none of the characters' deaths were permanent, I wondered this too. It is rather idealistic for the fans, but not necessarily for the narrative. I think even more so than death and despair, Alien Stage is about hope and love in the face of an otherwise hopeless world. I don't think the series' main genre has to solely be tragedy. If anything, I'd like it to be more about trauma and fighting the system of exploitation. Death is an easy way out for many of these characters. Sua never had to contend with her impact on Mizi and Ivan never with his impact on Till. Now Till doesn't have to contend with Ivan's sacrifice. There's a lot more potential in the characters being alive and having to face the consequences of their actions - and for the trauma of their deaths to continue affecting those that were left behind, regardless of who actually survived.

Ofc that would be quite the 180 for vivimeng given their current track record, and I don't know enough about them as creators to claim one way or the other. I'm not really confident about Ivan or Sua coming back, but I am almost certain Till survives. And if he doesn't... I'm really not interested in final girl Mizi route. There's some weird associations of that with misogyny in horror - or maybe it's a subversion, I can't remember - either way it's boring and predictable. Maybe Ivan and Till survive only to die again for an even greater gut punch later - there's lots of possibilities. But I do think Till has a lot more flags that he survives than that he's actually dead.

Honestly something I've been very bothered by was everyone's opinions about till from round 7 and I'm going to type it out to see if it makes sense. I'll be typing out and refuting common arguments I've seen so far.

For one the arguments about Till surviving somehow with just the wound as evidence is very flimsy, because for this to work you'd also have to say Sua, who got the exact same wound, would also still be alive.

Some arguments also say that Tills portrait flickering in the tournament chart unlike the others is also a sign he's still alive. While this isn't unreasonable it's also just as likely that it was done for dramatic effect.

Another theory I've heard is about his earpiece coming loose so they can't track his heartbeat? But that was mainly done for luka specifically not till, it was likely a stylistic choice.

However with these there are some valid points and these were just with physical variables.

Many people make arguments that Tills story feels incomplete that he can't possibly be dead because of this. And I agree 100% I was incredibly distraught when I saw him die because of all the unfulfilled dreams he had. But for Till to survive after this would make alien stage itself be incomplete. If at the climax, when till wasn't saved he manages to live then why wouldn't Ivan or Sua? If they all lived what kind of stakes would this even be? A world where all thw main characters survived?

Vivinos has made many tragic stories and for anyone who is definitively dead to come back to life would definitely not be her style.

Another thing is how the incompleteness itself could be intentional as well. We've seen how much Till has fought and yearned and been through, we believe he deserves to live after it all. Does it not make it more tragic that he failed in the end.

Anyways people make the argument story wise he can't possibly be dead, so I'll play the other side and show how thematically it makes sense he's dead. Lukas story is very clearly far from over, and there's no way he would die without a confrontation with hyuna, which has been teased for so long. We've also seen how Till mentally is a bit weaker, more emotional and far less analytical about things. To go against Luka who has been the ruler of the stage for two seasons now, who has been intentional in every second of his performance, would have been nearly impossible with these odds. And in the end it was another person who died in front of mizis eyes.

I was so upset at Tills death, but I think it would be an awful writing choice to make him secretly alive, in both the context of the story and in how the physical variables that may play a role really aren't definitive. We'll have to see if vivimeng will give more info about him outside of the main videos