#strange idol

[lairofdragonagelore]

The Strange Idol [analysis]

A compilation of what we know and what we can speculate about the old “Strange Idol”.

[This post belongs to the series “Analysis and speculation of Statues”]

This is a mysterious statue that has appeared in DA2 and DAI in different contexts. In DA2, we find it in three places:  The Harimann’s house basement, atop of the Sundermount, and inside Dumat’s Temple. Its resemblance in style  [shape of limbs, decoration, lines, material] to the Red Idol is worth noting. I already wrote an extensive post about “DA2: The Strange Idol” but I wanted to make a summary here with brief speculations supported by the knowledge of the recent published comics. To understand the context of the idol in DA2 in detail, I suggest reading that post. As I always repeat, DA lore adds a lot when you have the context in which it appears [and also helps you not to go deep into wild theories].

Where do we find this statue in DA games?

It appears for the first time in Merril’s Quest [read Merril and the Eluvian], inside a cave atop of the Sundermount.

In Sebastian’s Quest, placed in the Basement of Harimann’s mansion which turned out to be an ancient Tevinter Ruin. Thanks to Tevinter Nights book we know that having buildings undergrounf was/is a Tevinter costume that keeps existing in Mintharous.  We also know that Kirkwall, historically, has a lot of ruins and chambers below the city itself. This allowed Tevinter mages to do forbidden research or unsafe magic or have cult activities without the authorities’ knowledge.

In a humble temple deep into the Deep Roads, at the base of the tower-prison where Corypheus is held.

It also appears several times in the Black Emporium of DA2, behind and over the mirror of transformation. 

It appears in a cave that you have access by following the Old Chantry Trail Sign, in Western Approach. In there, we learn it’s warm to the touch and has a pulse.

His face appears in some walls along Din'an Hanin, and it’s the central statue in the Elandrin’s Tomb.

Its face appears in the mural the “Removal of the Vallaslin”, located in Elven Mountain Ruins ,  Forgotten Sanctuary

The raw information

So far, details that are worth noticing about this idol:

It has many limbs: two legs and four arms. Other multi-limbered creatures in DA universe are Varterrals [ read DLC: Witch Hunt and The Missing for more varterral’s information], some demons like the envy one, Xenon [ owner of the Black Emporium], and some creatures related to elvhenan paintings [read Nation Art: Elvhen] which in some instance may or may not be related to The Horror of Hormak [Personal Speculation].

Its face is monkey-like or a bit toad-like. Its mouth is open, its eyes a bit squinted. For this reason, it can be related to Elgar’nan through the codex  Vir Dirthara: Signs of Victory, [“narrowed eyes and its open, snarling mouth”] which was analysed in the post Ancient Elven codices; Vir Dirthara.

Its chest and stomach have swirls. One can associate swirls all over the games with lyrium or, in DAI, with Veilfire/Fade and elvhenan gods [the dragon statue that represents Myhtal as well as the howling wolf statue that represents Fen’harel both have swirls along their body]. For more details on this aspect, read the section “Spirals and branching lines as Fade, magic, and lyrium” in the post Murals in DAI: Basics

Its limbs have long carvings, like canals, from which something red can be seen. Given the context of being perceived as Dumat, or as Elgar’nan who may have accepted blood from his defeated enemies [as his codices imply a ruthless, violent, dominant behaviour], one can suspect it is dried blood drips. It’s very subtle, but the red lines in them have been present in both designs [in DA2 and DAI, in DAI it looks even more like blood]. We also know that the Elvhenan performed blood magic and it’s highly likely that blood magic was originally from Arlathan [hints of this info in Tarohne, the Fell Grimoire, and Xebenkeck]. So, there are several hints that show that elvhenan know how to bind spirits and how to use blood magic.

In Sebastian’s quest, this idol appears in an underground Tevinter ruin, and has a [desire] demon bind to it.

In Merril’s quest, this idol appears inside Elvhen ruins and has a pride demon bind to it. However, given the context, the statue can be Elven or Tevinter, since the battle of Sundermount caused that both sides would “unleash horrors” in the Waking World [the codex is not too reliable, though, since it speaks of a legend, and it’s “recent history” related to Arlathan; details in Sundermount as an elven graveyard]. We also know that a lot of knowledge about Arlathan has been lost or modified due to time and elven mortality, but we also know that these elves were deeply related to blood magic. If we add the binding culture that Elvhenan had according to DAI [for example, read Ancient Elven codices; The Lost Temple of Dirthamen, and The Lost Temple of Dirthamen - Part 2] we can suspect that this demon was bind to this statue for either faction [with defensive purposes if elven or as a gesture of dominance if Tevinter]. Not necessarily it has to be Tevinter-made. What I mean is that we have enough context to know that this may have been Tevinter or Elvhenan doing. In fact, one can speculate that maybe the original knowledge was Elvhenan and Tevinter just took it as its own as it has always done with elvhenan magical knowledge.

In Merril’s quest, Felandaris appears close to this statue, suggesting that the Veil is very thin in the area [this plant only grows around places where the veil is thin and demon presence is expected].

In DA2, this idol is usually close to strange dragon-skull totems  that, due to the lack of codex, is impossible to associate with Tevinter or Elvhenan. In DAI they are used in the ramparts of Exalted Plains, seen as structures that hold barriers around pits where dead arise. So they seem to be related to [demon/undead] summoning rituals that, so far we know in lore, may be Tevinter or Elvhenan alike.

In DA2:DLC Legacy, we find this idol too, but deep into the Deep Roads, at the bottom of Corypheus’ tower-prison in a small structure that has an “altar of Dumat”. Four plates are placed there, where you have to put four items found along the DLC: a sacrificial dagger, a crown, a ritual scroll, and a sacred Urn. If you give the items, a reward is given [chain of the penitent].  If you defile the altar instead, you will fight some shades, which gives us the idea that this idol is related to demons and/or blood magic, thinning the Veil around it [shades are usually the standard shape that demons take when enter the waking world without possessing living creatures].

In DAI, it appears in a cave of Western Approach where you can place your landmark, and it’s called “The Thing in the Dark” [details in  Western Approach: Old Chantry Trail Signs]. The small message we get in it is “This statue is oddly warm to the touch and shivers slightly, as though it might have a pulse”.  In DA2, Merril could feel something in the statue when the demon was bind to it, so this warm shivering effect may be the concept that some spirit/demon is bind to it. Let’s remember that in DAI we found a lot of things that are warm to the touch and have some pulse/shiver/angry feeling to it that may imply a spirit attached to it [read The Taken Shape set for a list of details about warm, pulsing objects]

In DAI, curiously, his face appears in some walls along Din'an Hanin, which is expected since his main tomb is underground of that ruin, but it also appears in the lower section of the mural “Removal of the Vallaslin” in the ancient elven ruins of Fen’Harel. One of these faces appears as the source of Veilfire.

Design-wise may have some distant similarities with Korth, the Father-mountain of the Avvar, which has [dragon?] horns. 

Speculation section

Similarities with the red lyrium idol

When we find similarities between this statue and the red lyrium idol, I’m not saying they are the same, but they may have similar functions in ancient rituals. Among the similarities, we can notice that figures have carvings along the body.

May the red lines inside the carvings of the Strange Idol not be blood but inactivated red lyrium? 

Why would I say this? The Red lyrium idol has shown, specially in the comic Dark Fortress, to look like a piece of wood [as if it were inactivated red lyrium] unless I’ve been understading it too wrongly [the scholar even suspects that the idol, once consumed into the creation of a sword for the Red Wraith, has been rendered useless, and its drawing looks more like a piece of wood/metal than a “red glowing crystal”]. Only in some places we see it red. This visual fact always confused me in DA series. We clearly see that the object is not entirely made of red lyrium, only some parts [specially the roots] look like it. Why so many characters insist in saying it’s completely made of red lyrium?

If we remember, the cinematics in Dragon Age Official Teaser Trailer - 2018 Game Awards shows that the idol glows only along some lines, as if the red lyrium is activating from within its metal/wood material. Which is similar to the red lines we see in the Strange Idol, but in a dormant way. We also know that Red Lyrium sounds angry and feels warm [check the red lyrium section in Songs and elements that sing and whisper in DA Lore]. Since the Strange Idol is warm to the touch too [according to DAI in Western Approach: Old Chantry Trail Signs] and has these red lines barely seen, could it be related to inactivated red lyrium? I really don’t know what to think about it since we know so little about the red lyrium idol [and I suspect it has been retconned a couple of times even along DA2].

Design wise, the red lyrium idol always looked to me like wood+metal, and only its lower part is made of red lyrium, as if it were roots, implying from a design-point-of-view the metaphor that the horror represented in the figure is “fed” on red lyrium [details and speculations in  Red Lyrium Idol ].

Pros and cons of certain speculations related to the Strange Idol:

Speculation 1: “This statue is Elgar’nan”

PRO

Its face coincides with the codex Vir Dirthara: Signs of Victory, which describes Elgar’nan with “ narrowed eyes and its open, snarling mouth”. The general shape of the Strange Idol may look like a mountain, as it is said in the codex that Elgar’nan statue was made of stone as big as a mountain [metaphorically implying how he defeated Titans and created monuments of himself on or with the corpse of his enemies].

It makes sense for it to appear in the Bastion of Elgar’nan in Emerald Graves: Din'an Hanin, Elandrin’s Tomb as central icon of the tomb of knights that defended elvhen, considering that Elgar’nan is perceived along the codices as a big leader during the Titan war.

It makes sense for it to be in the Sundermount cave, since we can speculate it was a statue used to bind a demon by the elvhen resisting the war against Tevinter. Let’s remember that Elgar’nan was always related to victory and wars against the Titans in the oldest codices we find about him [read Elgar’nan section in Evanuris].

CONS

If this is an elvhen god/Evanuris, I hardly see it worshipped by Tevinter, who allways had an ancient, deep rejection to elves. It would make no sense to use Elgar’nan as a representation of Dumat either [not consciously, at least]. So it makes no sense for this statue to appear in the Altar of Dumat close to the Corypheus’ prison as well as in Sebastian’s quest, in an underground Tevinter ruin.

It doesn’t have any visual similarity to Elgar’nan mosaic, which displays a bestial arm with claws. There is no similar hint of bestiality in the case of the Strange Idol [read Elgar’nan section in Evanuris]. However, this is not a strong counterargument: we can say the same of Mythal, who has two representations, one as an elf in a mosaic, and another as a dragon [in mosaic and statues too]. Read Mythal section in Evanuris for further details.

Neither con not pro: I can’t speculate why Elgar’nan would appear in the mural of “Removal of the Vallaslin” at the Elven Mountain Ruins, Forgotten Sanctuary. Specially if we think that the previous corridor towards this mural doesn’t have any mosaic of Elgar’nan either. I also can’t explain or speculate why the Forgotten Sanctuary, a place to give shelter to slaves, would have images of the Evanuris on its walls, the ones supporting the slavery system of the moment.  

This face, if it is truly Elgar’nan’s, is also presented as a source of Veilfire which can be related to Titans through the mural “The Death of a Titan”, where the source of Veilfire is presented in the heart of the Titan. Linking both symbols, one can suspect that maybe Elgar’nan’s victory over the Titans granted him the power of exceptional magic [divinity?], represented in these murals as the source of this particular green fire.

Speculation 2: “This statue is Dumat”

PRO: 

It makes sense to appear close to Corypheus’ prison in an altar to Dumat or in the underground Tevinter ruins from Sebastian’s quest.

It makes sense to appear in Sundermount, so we can assume it was a symbol of dominance from Tevinter when they attacked the resisting elves in this place. They bind a demon there too, and this brings no conflict with the lore; we know Tevinter always had a deep knowledge of binding and using demons in their favour.

CONS: 

It makes no sense for Dumat to appear in the Bastion of Elgar’nan in Emerald Graves: Din'an Hanin, Elandrin’s Tomb. If it would have appeared in the first part of the zone, where we find statues of Andraste as the codex of Emerald Knights upgrades, it would have been considered an assimilation from former slaves, but this statue appears in a central position in a tomb that has been sealed long ago, surrounded by many statues of Mythal in her dragon shape.

Besides, why would Dumat appear in the mural of “Removal of the Vallaslin” at the Elven Mountain Ruins, Forgotten Sanctuary? So far we know the “Tevinter” perspective of the Old Gods appeared long time after the Elvhen and the Evanuris, so it’s hardly a contemporaneous concept to the ancient Elvhenan Gods. 

Dumat, understood as the Old God perceived by Tevinter, is a Dragon in shape. Its will may be something else, though, that may be represented in this toad-like figure?.

Speculation 3: “This statue is an ancient god [maybe a Forgotten One?] worshipped by the Evanuris before claiming divinity, and Tevinter adopted it later, believing them as Dragons or The Old Gods”.

PROS: 

This concept makes sense in both scenarios, Tevinter and Elvhenan. Like I said in the lore sections of the posts related to the comics The Silent Grove, Those Who Speak, Until We Sleep, Magekiller, and The Missing; there are some hints that make us speculate that Evanuris worshipped great dragons originally [that may or may not result in the Forgotten Ones]. Mythal should have been one of them as she is a dragon herself, but they stopped worshipping these ancient gods when they took the “divine winged shape” for themselves, claiming divinity. From that moment on, the Evanuris [at least Andruil] hunt these dragon-gods/Forgotten-Ones down, chasing them to the Void [which is more related to the underground lyrium than to a dimensional pocket ala Crossroads]. Mythal stopped her [ and intentionally or not, we don’t know, she protected these entities] by fighting against Andruil and removing her knowledge of how to reach the Void because in the Void there was “Darkness” and madness that Andruil infected with [for a whole detailed analysis of this, check the codex explanation of “Elven God Andruil” in the post Ancient Elven codices, Temple of Mythal].

In this way, it makes sense for Tevinter to end up using similar iconography, ignoring it was the same god that the Elvhenan venerated originally. Tevinter knows that the Old Gods take the shape of Dragons, but they may be something else entirely.

Under this idea, it makes sense for this idol to appear in Tevinter or Elvhenan environments.

CONS:

There are too few hints to support this hypothesis of Forgotten Ones as the original gods that the Evanuris worshipped until they claimed divinity for themselves, and later Tevinter took them in their dragon shape and established the cult of the Old Gods. Most of the hints pointing out this relationship are recent [in the late comics].

We also have a strange potential relationship between the Forgotten Ones and the Forbidden Ones via the Seekers. It may be a red herring done by the devs or a consequence of “unreliable narrators”. Details in “Tarohne, the Fell Grimoire, and Xebenkeck”.

Another con is that this idol has no shape of a dragon when we know that the Old Gods are always represented as Dragons, and we also suspected from the comics that the Forgotten Ones may be dragons instead of elvhen . We also have another potential link with Hakkon as Geldauran, who may be one of them; for more details, read Elvhen Tomb and Ancient Tevinter presence, Speculation.

Neither con not pro but a detail worth noting: this entity has a shape with a distant resemblance to Korth, the Avvar Mountain-Father god [the mouth shape are alike, and the nostrils of the Strange Idol are similar to the Korth’s nose-eyes]. Korth is the oldest and strongest god of the Avvar pantheon. We know the Avvar have always had a much better understanding of the world due to their deep conection with the spirits, whose wisdom is always shared to the Augur of the tribe. With this I mean that this Strange Idol seems to be a very old entity that even the Avvar perceived, reflected later in the shape of Korth. Korth is related to the Mountain, as Elgar’nan is related to it in a dominant way in the codex  Vir Dirthara: Signs of Victory. Elgar’nan’s fury [which destroys everything it touches, according to the codex The Judgment of Mythal or read Elgar’nan section in Evanuris for more details] has some distant similarity to Korth’s cruelty when he lost his heart [read codex The Frostback Mountains] and became a force of anger and destruction. According to the relationships I’ve been trying to connect along this blog, these details seem to me that the same entity has been perceived by Avvar, Tevinters, and Elvhenan, but represented with some differences in order to fit their own purposes [as all DA lore has been showing so far].

[averagegrianfan]

DAWG WHAT IS THE GLASS SCIENTISTS EVEN ABOUT?!?! 😭🙏

[gatoburr0]

Aaaaaah I’ve been thinking for so long about making my own idol group but I suck at design and logos of any kind make me uncomfortable to design (graphic design ptsd) (I said design thrice)

This is the best I could do, honestly I like them.

Still need to figure out their backstory and all that elaborate stuff but for now just shenanigans and doodles of them.

Although his name is pronounced in Portuguese he’s mostly Spanish. I love Espada sm.

[m0e-ru]

fletchinder flame charge this mother fucker

[lizzybeeee]

Missed opportunity to have the 'magical god-killing macguffin' weapon be Andruil's spear. Rather than have an idol somehow become a dagger (not to mention cleansed of the blight and somehow expect us to just accept this - no questions) it could be this?

Veilfire writing from a ruin in the Arbor Wilds; the script is so ancient it defies translation. There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning. "She shook the radiance of the stars, divided them into grains of light, then stored them in a shaft of gold. Andruil, blood and force, save us from the time this weapon is thrown. Your people pray to You. Spare us the moment we become Your sacrifice." There is a brief image of an elaborate golden spear, glowing with unbearable heat. Then it fades. Codex entry: Unreadable Elven Writing, DAI

She began stalking the Forgotten Ones in the Abyss and became mad from it.

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. Codex entry: Elven God Andruil, DAI

She made weapons and hunted Gods? The Evanuris, according to this myth, were frightened enough that Mythal had to come battle her?

Also imagine Ghilan'nain being killed by Andruil's spear...raised to Godhood by Andruil's hand and then slain by the weapon forged by her hand???

[luc3ks]

forever going to hate the "pearl and marina are 8‘s adoptive moms“ cuz canon wise 8 is AT MOST 2 years younger than marina. chat she is now a grown ass woman those are her FRIENDS not moms

[cosmic-walkers]

I haven't seen a lot of people talk about him but harry melling absolutely killed it as wriothsely. for one of the first times we see the character of wriothsely really focused on in tudor media, he did an outstanding job at portraying a flawed, torn, nuanced and morally ambiguous risley. i loved him, and his ability to have amazing chemistry with mark rylance.

i could almost look past the fact that he didn't have red hair, in s2 even tho the s1 actor had it. idk maybe they ran out of lightener, copper hair color and 50 vol developer on set but he did good.

[ottosbigtop]

thinking about season 4 si-5. Thinking about the aftermath. Thinking about the absolutely fascinating trust Jacobi and Kepler have in each other- Jacobi in knowing that Kepler will make the right call, will keep the team safe, no matter how batshit nuts his plan of action is. Kepler in knowing that he can push Jacobi just as far to the edge without him falling over and without Kepler losing him or his unyielding faith.

And then season 3 finale happens and Maxwell dies. And Jacobi’s world view is thrown upside down. His strongest objectively positive relationship came out of his si-5 work, his relationship with Maxwell. A relationship that was a result of Kepler’s leadership. In seconds he loses his best friend and when he loses that, he loses everything he thought he knew about the situation he was in. Kepler slipped up, things were finally, finally pushed too far, something Jacobi was sure would never happen because there have been so many times where he was pushed just the right amount, but it happened.

It cost him his best friend and, in a way, cost him his relationship with Kepler. He loses his perspective on Kepler that he had. He loses that unyielding faith in the situation he is in. Kepler didn’t die, but Jacobi loses both relationships he formed in the si-5 when Maxwell did.

[reco-obsessed]

we know that Reko's father forced her into the industry at an early age, but it's not entirely clear what genre. The idea of it being an 'industry' definitely implies she was more of a pop idol since there isn't really a 'classical' industry in the same vein, though there is still definitely heavy competition and a lot of notoriety to be gained through being very skilled at classical music, especially at an early age, so I wouldn't be so quick to write that off, either. Even so, the plot line of her being 'forced to make music she didn't want to make' and her father being blinded by money definitely feels like it makes more sense in the context of a popstar. In my personal opinion, I like the pop idol route because it really emphasizes the distinction between her current views and aesthetic and the one her father would've been trying to get her to be. A sudden stark rebellion by going super edgy and emo in middleschool contrasts with her needing to be seen as nice, innocent, happy all the time (and probably a fair bit more feminine than she actually felt, too, since alt styles are heavily associated with androgyny). Its also worth noting that she mentioned crushing multiple huge industry offers throughout her later years, which further implies she had a strong reputation already. However logic is pulling on my sleeve and it's telling me that it honestly feels weirder for a 10-13 (this age range being chosen with the logic that it would've had to been *before* or she entered middle school, as per her personal account) year old kid to be a super successful pop idol than a highly successful classical music prodigy. Though, I guess there's the possibility her father actively lied about her age to get her in the idol industry.

[snufkin44]

HE IS A FREAK YOUR HONOR

Although that's not really the case, the truth is that he's usually very calm and has a serious expression. Fans love the gap moe, so they make him act that way because they know Gakupo is a method actor. Unless he's in character, you'll never see him with any expression other than a relaxed one.

[demodraws0606]

You know I think there is something interesting to say in terms of where the fuck WxS is going because like

I think WxS is the only unit where the end goal or overall progression is probably the most unknown out of all of them ???

MMJ and VBS are extremely obvious, they both have the most explicit goals that are said to us in a straightforward way

25-ji, in the end we know the main goal at the end will be for all of the characters to go over their hurdles with Mafuyu finally being able to find herself and move forward

Leo/need is probably the closest in terms of vagueness but we know the end goal is clear for them to grow as a band, probably ending in a big concert or something along those lines

But with WxS...like I guess the closest thing I can see to an end goal is all of WxS preparing a show together with everyone playing their part but that definitely doesn't feel like something you'd build up for an entire arc and definitely not something that feels fitting after the emotional turmoil that was the disbandement arc ???

In terms of physical achievements as well they literally revived an entire parc through one gigantic show, so it just comes into question what they can do now.

Then you look at their first few event for this arc considering usually the first event kinda set up what will be planned for the future but it's...weird.

Yeah, Tsukasa and Rui's events set up they're inexperienced and how they will grow in the future but also there is this weird feeling of something feeling off ?

The plays/scripts all are strangely depressing, the play in Tsukasa's event being about a failed writer planning to drown himself (which I believe is one of the only undeniable explicit description of suicide ever in the game?????) and the second being someone whose given up on life meeting their estranged sister only for her to become ill.

We even have Emu's side story in Rui's event where they watched the movie Rin was watching during the event made by the same producer and Emu herself note how depressing the story is (meanwhile the main character of the movie clearly parallels Rui)

We don't see the conclusion of these in-game stories as well, lingering on their worst moment never really seeing the presumably happy conclusion.

THEN we also have Emukasa fes which....again strangely different in tone from what you'd expect a WxS fes card, they're not really all that conclusive either. Tsukasa never aknowledges how he relates to the brother in the story and Emu doesn't really get a conclusion on her grief.

Then we also have Rui's entire fuckign event with the cards and his cyberpunk deadbo-YOU SEE WHAT IM SAYING

The closest we fucking have to knowing what WxS's fucking endgoal towards the story is, is fucking WL which....TELLS US NOTHING

At least with VBS we know that they're goal is to go even further beyond and conquer the whole world, that is a developpement of their goal.

What I'm saying is I don't know what the fuck colorpalet is cooking wiht WxS but I feel like i'm a fucking twilight zone reading the way they're writing WxS now because I can't be the only one feeling insane at how weird all of this is

[yoohyeon]

𝕋𝕣𝕒𝕚𝕟𝕖𝕣 ℍ𝕪𝕖𝕛𝕦 𝕨𝕠𝕦𝕝𝕕 𝕝𝕚𝕜𝕖 𝕥𝕠 𝕓𝕒𝕥𝕥𝕝𝕖 ! 🩶

Mine - Do not repost!

[ilikeit-art]

What a strange case this girl was in American Idol. Speaking voice and singing voice were two completely different voices.

[shallowseeker]

Sigh.

I... I think Sam must have fan-boyed to Jack about Gandhi.

14x01

///

5x05

///

Jack's brain: Ah, yes. Maybe Gandhi was a boxer.

...

And then Jack winds up with a stuffed bear based on a BOXER instead.

[t3l3vangelism]

trying to make chloe price bots made me realize i might need to rewatch gloom’s play through😭

[deus-ex-mona]

farewell, my idiot son…