#stg if marvel makes loki watch him die again...

[mobius-m-mobius]

What I'm about to tell you... is going to be hard to believe. Again. - LOKI Season 2 (Oct 6th, 2023)

[iamnmbr3]

Another day. Another questionable interview from someone involved with the production. This time the Director (who to her credit at least is better than Mike Waldron in that she is able to say she likes Loki’s character whereas his interviews drip with open disdain and disrespect and he can’t even pretend otherwise). (x)

Kate Herron: But Loki doesn't have many friends, you know? He builds this friendship with Mobius across the second episode.

Here again we get out-of-universe confirmation that the narrative framing of Mobius in a positive light is intentional. Mobius is not Loki’s friend. He’s his captor and his torturer. Loki isn’t on equal footing with Mobius. They don’t even have a boss-employee relationship. LOKI WAS MOBIUS’S SLAVE until he escaped. He was being held against his will and coerced under threat of death to work for Mobius and his organization without compensation. That is slavery. And it’s not ok. 

Mobius also berated him by telling him that he is inherently evil and monstrous - the very things that drove him to suicide. Mobius is complicit in acts of torture, genocide, murder, privacy violation, and  police brutality and shows no signs of having any problem with it. He’s no more Loki’s friend than Thanos or the Black Order are. 

When has he ever treated Loki with dignity or respect? Even if we ignore all the horrific stuff, he’s just plain not nice to Loki. He constantly mocks and belittles him and never takes his side. That’s not a how a friend behaves!  That’s how a bully behaves! Where is the basis for this friendship??!!

Kate Herron: “And obviously, we're seeing it through Loki and Sylvie's POV. You know, neither of them are good or bad. A complete, pure good hero would probably join the queue and be like, "Well, hopefully we'll get on the train." But they're not those characters. They're going to try and get on it.”

They snuck onto a train??? That’s what she thinks a grey character is? That’s so dull! Loki was a complex and grey character. Larry (as I call the tv show character) and Sylvie...got on a train without a ticket. That’s laughable! That doesn’t make me think about complex morality or issues. And c’mon. All the heroic Avengers have done that level of rule breaking MANY times and they don’t lose their “pure good hero status.” Tony Stark constantly does things like that! I want Loki back. HE is a grey character. But I haven’t seen him in the show so far. Instead I get Larry the watered down clown. 

Kate Herron: “When Loki and Mobius are at Pompeii, for example, that's shown through Loki's POV, right? He's joyous and he cracked the case. Pompeii was horrific, but we're seeing it through his perspective and he's in a completely different headspace.”

You know a scene can have more than one emotion right? Like he could be happy about solving the case but also horrified at the destruction of Pompeii? Instead he is laughing at the people who are about to die horrifically and seems to have no compassion for them whatsoever. Sure people can headcanon reasons why he behaved that way (and more power to them. Fixing dumb canon is what fandom is all about!) but the narrative framing is to me pretty clearly lighthearted and the director confirms that intent. There seems to be no awareness that by having Loki behave so callously it makes him come across as incredibly cruel. Far more than he ever was in canon. 

In Thor 2011 Thor is laughing while slaughtering Jotnar (as is considered appropriate in his culture) but Loki isn’t. He kills when he has to but he doesn’t enjoy it, something that’s unusual for the culture he was raised in. This Pompeii scene could’ve been a great time to see Loki’s more compassionate side as he looks at the people who are going to die. We could’ve seen some real conflict from him. And it would’ve been a great moment to start introducing the concept that he’s more than just a simple villain to more casual viewers. Instead, although they think they’re “redeeming” Larry over the course of the show they’ve made him far worse and more villainous. I wish they had hired an experienced Director who also understands Loki - like Kenneth Brannaugh!!! - rather than a Director who has never headed up a major project before. Though even the best Director couldn’t fix the abysmal and ooc script and story Mike Waldron came up with. 

Kate Herron: “I think that's the thing that's really key for her is that she's a completely original character, completely born out of our writers, and that, for me, was exciting.” 

Remember when I said Sylvie is the favored OC? Called it. 

Kate Herron: “The train scene I love because Loki doesn't get many wins and it's nice to see him having a nice sing-song. He's just enjoying himself. Because I think that's such a funny way, as well, to show the difference between him and Sylvie is that she's on a mission. She's like, "We're going to get off this moon." And when she's offered a drink, she's like, "No, thank you."

WOW. I hate this SO much. So suddenly Sylvie gets to act more like Loki and Loki suddenly doesn’t know how to be subtle and is just a dumb clown messing everything up. C’mon! This is absolutely ridiculous. This is not Loki silvertongue. This is not the Loki who tried to diffuse the situation on Jotunheim and almost succeeded. This is not the Loki who was always a restraining voice in Thor’s ear. They’ve turned Sylvie into discount Loki without any depth or complexity or vulnerability and they’ve turned Loki into discount Thor ft. dumb clown! Absolutely outrageous. 

Kate Herron: “everything is not what it seems and even in our design, people have picked up on certain things. Like the way that they dress, or the posters and that there's something a bit more going on there.”

If the TVA actually turn out to be twist villains I will laugh SO hard; I’d say that twist is too dumb even for Marvel but...it’s really not! Like. Guys. If they’re gonna be TWIST villains you have to not have them do obviously villainous things on screen!!!! BECAUSE THEN IT’S NOT A TWIST!!!!

From the moment we meet them we see them commit acts of police brutality, murder, genocide, trial without due process, enslavement, privacy violation, and torture IN ORDER TO ELIMINATE FREE WILL. Like. They are literally the most evil organization in the MCU. Even Thanos can’t compare. So having them be revealed as villains will fall flat. Because the twist isn’t the audience learning new information or the main character learning it. It’s just the narrative suddenly acknowledging it and treating their atrocities seriously. So the twist is in the real world not the show. And it’ll make Larry look like an even bigger idiot than he already does if he’s suddenly like “Wait the people who tortured and enslaved me are evil?! What?!??!” (I stg if he has to fight miss minutes in the end like I joked about I will lose it).

Also. Why make it a twist?! When you treat the villains as a joke it robs the narrative of tension. Their acts of evil should’ve been acknowledged from the beginning in order to create sympathy for the protagonist and tension in the narrative as we watch him try to escape this situation! Smh. The only funny joke in this series is how badly the writing fails. 

[princesssarcastia]

Infinity War

Spoilers below.

Okay, umm?? uMMMM??? wow.  rude.  

If I'm rating this movie, I'd have to give it....like 7/10.  There were some FUCKING AWESOME bits and some NOT SO AWESOME bits.  

First of all, they juggled 20+ main characters very, very well. No one felt marginalized, no storyline uninteresting. The “most ambitious crossover event in history” was very well executed purely on that point. 

Second of all, I’m definitely going to see this movie again; not because I'm not sure about it, but because I genuinely enjoyed watching it. 

Pepper!! And Tony!!! Talking!!!!!!! amazing.  I’m not super chill with pepper still being Anti Suit™ but they clearly love and enjoy each other; they’re finally...comfortable, and its so nice. 

Everyone was worried about how Wanda was going to be there just to feel sad about vision, but I thought they did well with that! There was definitely a huge amount of Being Sad About Vision but I feel like struggling with the decision to kill your boyfriend is interesting enough. Also, her being powerful enough to destroy the mind stone and hold off thanos at the same time was a fucking trip, I really enjoyed that.

The bit where Bruce talked about Vision being a product of JARVIS, Ultron, and Tony was sooooo satisfying, like yes, Vision, you are tony and bruce and JARVIS’s brainchild. ha!

I think the part that bugged me the most was Gamora.  Fucking killing her off for fucking manpain, I stg.  Peter’s reaction was completely normal! Of course you’d want to smash his face in!! but see, thats the only reason Gamora is dead: so Peter’s admittedly very smart plan would go kaploey due to his own emotional response.  I'm really mad about this.

And hey, props to PQ for actually trying to shoot gamora like she asked him to.  It was killing him, but he promised, he swore on his mother; usually when people make promises like that it doesn’t pay off, they chicken out or miss their shot, but not this time.  even Thanos baiting him didn’t work.  

Another thing I’m mad about is Loki.  This is, what his third time dying?? Fourth time????? its not emotional or impactful anymore.  just kinda...oh, he’s dead.....again......okay............sure. like get a new schtick. Whats that tweet, about killing people just before they get what they want, that its shitty writing?? yeah, it is.  do you know how funny it would have been for Loki to have a “zuko here” moment with the other Avengers? much more satisfying than another fucking death scene.  Also, the liesmith just...tries to stab thanos, wow, okay.  

Wong is invited to Tony’s wedding, props. 

Tom Holland as Peter Parker is the best part of this movie, hands down. Charming and adorable and a really competent fighter, and his interactions with Tony are wonderrrfullll I loved them.  And his death scene was the absolute best one out of all of them.  he was like “I feel funny” and I’m like SHIT SHIT SHIT NO. “I’m sorry” oh my god, child, nooo, it’s not your fault!!! agh. I love him. 

On the subject of death, I’m pretty torn about how everyone is dead.  Yeah, it was meant to be devastating, but...PP’s death was the only one you really felt, because he was freaking out and so was Tony.  There had to be that kind of reaction to feel it, because we all know everyone is going to be fine at the end of the next movie; they’ll just use the infinity stones to bring them back. So the lack of reaction for everyone else is a bit of a letdown.

I’m intrigued by the idea that Tony Stark has to be alive for them to win; Strange said he’d seen only one reality where they beat Thanos, and then gave up the time stone when Tony was about to die.  The prodigal son who started the marvel universe has to save it.  And since everyone was sure that Tony would be the first to go, myself included, this is one good example of subverting expectations.

Bruce and the Hulk’s Dr.-Jekyl-Mr.-Hyde bit was kinda funny. I liked how Thanos delivered a beatdown on the hulk, because it was an example of training overcoming brute strength.

Heimdall??? dying??? um how about no.  my favorite asgardian is not allowed to die, 0/10 doctors recommend.  (he was crucial but his death was unsatisfying, just like Loki’s. there’s honestly not much about the scene on the Ark that I liked beyond the Hulk thing)

Thanos is alright as a villain.  His reason for committing genocide is kinda stupid, but can there actually be a good reason for genocide? not really.  the fact that he loved gamora is TOTALLY DEBATABLE I'm not cool with that. also pUT THAT HELMET BACK WHERE IT CAME FROM OR SO HELP ME–

Thor has armor and a cape again, which confuses me because he looks much better in asymmetrical leathers, but thats an aesthetic thing.  His bromance with  rocket was very satisfying.  Groot making the handle for Thor’s new axe out of himself is priceless, although I’m a little disappointed they didn’t continue the idea of Thor being just as if not more powerful without his hammer. and that moment when they show up in Wakanda??? good shit, good shit.  chills man. was it falcon who was like “well u guys are fuckkng screwed now!” ? I concur, sam.

The moment when you realize Thor fucked up, oh shit he really fucked up, was also cool.  Its not stupid to aim for his chest; on any other man, it would have worked, and the battle would be over.  It just wasn’t enough this time. 

Gamora and Thanos both doing the “snap of his fingers” thing is a haunting echo.

notice how all the original avengers are still alive? we are definitely getting a boy-band reunion in the next movie, which I sincerely can’t wait to see. 

overall, I’m not disappointed by this movie.  there were parts they could have done better, but marvel hit all the big checkpoints with Infinity War, Pt. I.

[dawnquafam]

Holy crap I can’t believe that I haven’t found your blog sooner. I’ve read some of your thoughts about Loki’s death and you really give me the hope I desperately need. As for Tom confirmed for Avengers 4, I see little use for flashbacks unless Thor is remembering in the midst of everything, but even then, he has enough motivation from when Loki died. He doesn’t need any more painful motivation from his little brother. I hope this sparked some more thoughts? 😊

Thanks for thefollow! This is officially my third time typing this, Tumblr keeps glitchingand deleting it, and it gets longer every time, I’m so done

You’re absolutelyright that Thor doesn’t need any more heartbreak of any sort at any point ever,leave my son alone Russos. And I don’tthink Avengers 4 will feature plain old flashbacks. It’ll be full-blown, we’re-gonna-screw-things-up-to-fix-themtime travel. For one thing, set pics have shown Ant-Man with Evans in his 2012Cap suit, even though Scott physically couldn’t have gotten the suit until2015, what with him being in jail and all.

Plus, the set picsof Tom have shown him apparently filming Loki’s final A1 scene, chains and gagand all. Except, there’s a stunt double there this time. There was zero reasonfor a stunt double in A1, so somethingis changing about that scene in A4. The question is what and I stg if it involves us watching Loki die again I willthrow my soda at the screen.

As for how they’re time traveling, I have twotheories:

1) The set pics showSteve, Tony, and Scott all wearing the same tech on their hands, tech we’venever seen before, and a few days ago I saw someone point out that the threetech geniuses – Shuri (theoretically, at least), Tony, and Bruce – all survived,so perhaps they’re going to invent time travel tech.

2) Eitri is stillalive (also theoretical, thank you very much stupid Thanos), and Thor has boththe knowledge and the means to get there, so perhaps they go get him to makethe Avengers their own Gauntlet (I believe that Tony at least has wielded it inthe comics), and somehow steal at least the Time Stone from Thanos (the Stonesdid survive the snap, even if his Gauntlet was in very rough shape) and figuretime travel is their best bet at undoing this whole mess.

Basically, I’mpretty sure that Loki will at thevery least have at least one completely new scene in Avengers 4. I am prayingfor more after what they did to him in IW, but I’m also trying not to get myhopes up so I can either be right or pleasantly surprised instead of that wholefiasco where I wrote multiple posts explaining why I thought Loki would survivethe first scene of IW. Because. That worked.

And on that note, becauseI’m clearly very good at not getting my hopes up, I’m gonna add in a coupleideas I’ve had about Loki’s potential return.

1) While there’s noevidence of 2018 Thor heading to 2012 with Scott, I do have a vague hope thathe will, and between Thor’s modern perspective on Loki’s psychological troublesand whatever is going to happen, they’ll reconcile enough for Loki to agree toreturn to 2018 with Thor. (This also has the potential to save Frigga, if Loki’snot in the dungeons to tell Kurse where to go. Although by that same logic Thorwould probably die fighting the Dark Elves. So uh. Not too sure how well thiswould really work. Time travel iscomplicated.)

2) Either Thor orsomeone else (I’m not picky, I just waNT MY SON BACK MARVEL) tells Loki what not to do when the time comes. And maybethis doesn’t save anyone but Loki (although it would be simple enough to alsotell Loki not to tell Kurse about the stairs), but I think Thor would take thatwin. I certainly would.

So, we’ll be gettingmore Loki. And I do have some hope for a little more good (or at least notblatantly evil) Loki, maybe even that Thor and Loki hug we’ve been deprived offor two movies now if we’re really lucky,but I’m also trying to stay practical. It’s gonna be a long year…