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drawnaghht · 1 year ago

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Usagi is a given name (part 2)

I had a confusion abt a recent(ish) post in the Samurai Rabbit tags, but then after writing a reply, realized, it was about an AU they were writing and not the series itself directly. So I scrapped my reply and revised it a bit to put it here separately. (general spoilers for Samurai Rabbit: the Usagi Chronicles and minor spoilers for Usagi Yojimbo) Also posting bc I keep seeing old info circulate that keeps confusing the name thing further so lol. general reference for u fans who haven't read the UY comics or watched the SRTUC series. Even if you change things in your own fic, even if u dislike the SR show, it’s good to keep in mind what the original work might mean.

Summary:

Miyamoto Usagi is based on historical samurai Miyamoto Musashi, so Usagi is always his given name. In japan, names are written [surname][given name]. Usagi Yojimbo is Stan Sakai’s life work, inspired in the early 80s by samurai films, namely Samurai trilogy about the real life Miyamoto Musashi.

Based on how the Samurai Rabbit show treats it, Usagi is the given name of Yuichi Usagi as well - it's more familiar, what you would call any other characters in western shows - their first name. We do not know the in-world or our-world reasoning for it (yet). But safe to say that the SRTUC crew were big fans of UY or else the show would not have been made.

Although UY predates it in the US, Usagi is usually considered a given name thanks to the popularity of Sailor Moon, so it is not used as a surname. Maybe it's more of a Kira Kira name in real-world japan. Cute but harmless.

Usagi means "rabbit" so it makes sense as a fictional name because all these characters mentioned are rabbits or rabbit-themed. In the Usagi Yojimbo book, many characters have names based on what species of animal they are (Inukai (Stray Dog), Nezumi, Zato-Ino) so there are just a lot of name puns.

but you can use Yuichi when wanting to differentiate while speaking of both of the Usagi's (Stan himself switches between using Usagi/Yuichi and "My Usagi"/Miyamoto Usagi when he starts talking of both of them in the same answer in this CBCC podcast interview). Usagi is still a given name for both.

So you can use both names when talking about him as a character, but in-story people would probably address him as Usagi regardless of if they've just met him or known him for a long time.

Yes, it makes things confusing, but it’s like having two people in the same class with the same name. You don’t rename the classmates, you give them nicknames.

Since he is so friendly, he would probably let people use Usagi from the first time they meet (and we see this in the show itself too haha) but in other contexts, maybe he would let people address him as Yuichi-san, for example, but we never really see anyone refer to him in this way. And to all strangers he meets, he is just “Rabbit” - the friendly farmboy descended from samurai.

edit (14.06.23): after writing this I realised, even more likely that both Yuichi and Usagi are meant as given names and the family doesn't have a surname anymore... lets think about it more below! ^^

= Intro =

So I thought that maybe making a long reply would be rude, so I’m making a separate post about it. This post was confusing to me at first, bc I thought, “ahh, more confusion abt the names” then “but wait they’re not Father and Son…” and then realized omg, this post and poll is for OPs AU! (lolol sorry for misreading it, i’m still sick and very slow on the uptake for a lot of stuff this week ^^;)

I had a bit of trouble at first too with a new Usagi and his names. Yuichi is very commonly known as a given name in japan. After seeing the series, I even tried to rationalize that maybe his friends are using Usagi respectfully as a family name after they get to know him... but in the show itself, his aunt calls him "Usagi" so even tho Yuichi is a common first name, it is intended in the show that he is called Usagi, whatever way "Yuichi" is meant to be used.

(Usagi and his Auntie. Shot from the 1st episode. "The Big City" )

Usually an aunt who raises you, does not use your second/family names. I'm not Japanese or Japanese-American myself (I am mixed Asian-European) so I deferred to the show to give me info. This show seemed a bit better to me than other american shows based on asian cultures. So the naming kept confusing me but I guessed that maybe I just don't know enough info and it must be some pun or simpler nickname like many characters in the comic (like general Oyaneko, Lord Hebi, or Zato-Ino)

(Yuichi Usagi and Miyamoto Usagi. screenshot from the 18th episode. "The Chizu Stands Alone" )

So I tried to consider some time ago, that maybe the team who named him, just decided on it based on something else (maybe the meaning "heroic first-born (son)" (via Japanese-Names.org)) and that Stan went with it as the one overseeing everything for the show because the name stuck. It's a fairly catchy name.

I’ve also heard from other fans that they kept calling him Yuichi during production and then added Usagi for the connection to the original Usagi and vice versa, that he was always called Usagi, but then needed and secondary name to differentiate him among both the crew and in the text.

We don't really know as fans. Maybe there's a long story behind it that the crew didn't have time to include as they tried to finish the 20-episode order... but I digress. His first name is Usagi. Lets say that it's a namesake to his ancestor.

Miyamoto Usagi from Stan Sakai's Usagi Yojimbo comics is well-known to be based on Miyamoto Musashi, a real-life samurai. The fact that his first name is Usagi, is sorta like Stan making a joke about how he's a rabbit also. It's a fun juxtaposition of serious and funny, because it's a very well-researched comic about Edo-period samurai, but everyone is animals. So that's why the comic is also titled Usagi Yojimbo, because, Rabbit Bodyguard. It's just a good title that makes sense when you start reading the first story.

Usagi Yojimbo is the TITLE of the comicbook series. The folks who made the 1987 series made a mistake naming him (and there's prob history there but I won't go into it). In the comic, Mr. Sakai uses the japanese naming convention of [FAMILY NAME] [given name]. This is consistent in the cartoon as well. Usagi itself is a common given name in manga/comics since Sailor Moon.

Yuichi Usagi in this way, sounds like two first names then. But...

Yuichi can actually be a last name too irl, it is just much less common.

There's also name-explaining sites. I can’t quite take sites like these (Forebears) at face value, but it has some vague statistics on Yuichi as a surname around the world. Again, vague for me personally, bc how do they collect this info.. but they’ve been active since 2012 and some of the info on other names is correct so maybe it’s correct here too.

And of similar names:

Lets take sites like these witha grain of salt though, since they don’t have concrete sources.

Another fan (@/vagabond-pinky) asked about this name confusion 3 months ago in march and got some interesting replies in the notes so I'll leave that here too: "we found 2 historical people with the last name Yuichi, case closed. his first name is Usagi"

= Usagi Yojimbo: Senso connection =

I already made a longer post looking into the name some time ago, trying to analyze a possible reason for why the crew named him Yuichi Usagi and not something else. I went and read Usagi Yojimbo: Senso, which, in addition to the main comic, is what the crew based the concept of the show on, in large parts. I also found after writing this bigger post that Miyamoto Yuichi is a really common name. So maybe they also didn't want to name him something that wouldn't be as memorable or show up in an internet search. But that's my speculation as a fan as is what I wrote before. There is an article in the Pachific Citizen that actually calls him Miyamoto Yuichi by accident and it does have a nice ring to it.

Maybe it’s an issue of how the name was researched. When looking up the name and any historical base like with Stan’s Usagi and Musashi, I found that many EN language wikipedia redirects/directory lists had JP names either first-name–last-name (western) or last-name–first name (japanese), without consistency across the site. Maybe the crew researched a name, but it was listed wrong. Maybe they based the name also on something historical, mimicking Stan in their admiration of his work, but ran out of time to actually reference these isnpirations in the work itself because of time restraints? I do not know yet, because we have not had any interviews from anyone in the crew about this. Usually animation productions, especially for TV series are on an incredibly tight schedule. The actual production of the show started in 2020 (Comic Con 2021 interview with Stan, crew and cast - this is where I first heard abt the show if I remember right) and the show premiered its first season on March 28th 2022. They might have even been finishing up some details on the second season between this and the 2nd season airing on September 1st. So logistically, it's possible they couldn't include more lore and explanations except what was deemed important e.g. the yokai storyline, Chizu's story arcs, Miyamoto Usagi's Ki-stone flashbacks and storyline, the alien storyline. So basically maybe they just ran out of time for us to see Yuichi's backstory, as the show tries to be a bit different in this regard. We even see Gen's backstory a bit throughout s1, but miss out on Kitsune and the younger Usagi. Going by the Comic Con interview with Stan however, Stan is really proud of the series and pre-production had already been going on for a year or so before this interview, so they must have worked out something between pre-production and post-production.

= The japanese dub =

In the japanese dub, his name is spelled ユウイチ (雄一) うさぎ - Yūichi Usagi, so by naming conventions, again things are fairly correct. Usagi is the given name to call him by, but then by the spelling both are technically given names? When you search this name in japanese, you will get children's books listed in both the site results and the image results.If I really wanted to infer meaning from this, I could say that “hey, maybe this is a common children’s nickname for an old book series or fairytale, or something!” Except I do not actually know that. That would be my assumption to make based on a surface-level detail.

Now, since I'm not japanese or japanese-american myself (and probably neither are many of the online TMNT and Usagi fans), I can only learn from others about this culture. While I am european-asian, that is kind of totally different no matter how many living relatives I might have in japan or not. I might know slightly more about some japanese culture and history than say, the average northern or eastern-european here? But I am still quite clueless about many things about the language and history itself. So whatever I try to search in japanese will have some human error in it because I am not fluent in japanese. So, if we try to expand beyond the show, unless we are actually close to these communities, we will not know about japanese culture unless we've learned about it beforehand. So we can only refer to the comicbook series and the show itself to give us more info, or more context, to look up and research. But if I find anything else, I can really only use it as a point to sort of expand my existing theories on, but not quite “hard canon” as what the show itself and the comic are.

One other thing I find of note to mention: both the original EN language cast and crew had actual Asian-American members in important roles. The art director is Vietnamese-American. Yuki Matsuzaki reprising his role as Miyamoto Usagi and Darren Barnet, who is half-japanese, playing Yuichi Usagi. Darren is fluent in japanese btw, so that's why you might hear a slight "accent" when he speaks japanese as Usagi - he is actually pronouncing the japanese words correctly. And that was so nice to hear. You have no idea how many cartoons and other media I've seen where the asian language pronunciations are completely butchered. Sometimes it is intentional from a production i.e. game localization from a chinese game to english - because english pronounciation of names has different rules from other languages, so some names and words have to follow those rules more closeuly so people know what word is being said and recognize it. But it's still grating to hear. So the fact that names and food or other terms are pronounced in a way that seems correct (again, not fluent, but it's better than I hear in non-researched productions), is very nice to hear.

Additionally, it seems from just the way the crew talks about it that they put a lot of care into making sure they don't mess things up regarding the culture and the comic. So I refuse to believe that research was not done on the show, including the names. It comes down to the quality of research, but also their time restraints, what was actually left in the show and what was deemed viable to keep, what would have added more time crunch or work on top of existing work. Again, blame netflix, not the crew, not the producers (all supportive of the show, bc who knows what netflix upstairs things about cartoons anymore.

= Conclusions =

Thinking of all this, the most likely reasons for Usagi’s names like that that they had considerations for other names and more lore behind it, but focused more on getting the show finished and done in a way that the most important plot and info got into it. So a lot of things might have been cut for time reasons, including a consideration for a different surname, because again, for time and quality reasons, this was not as important as the rest of the show.

It might be that my theory linking Senso to the creation of the show could turn out to be true - that the name Yuichi is more a title than a traditional surname.

Extrapolating on this Senso theory, since the show borrows just as heavily from Edo time aesthetics, history and ideas, it’s possible the crew also built on the idea of a samurai family losing their surname and becoming farmers over time... Something we also see in Usagi Yojimbo, with a general in hiding who has become a farmer and having a new family... it’s interesting to consider then that perhaps the whole line after the Ki-stone incident with the shogun, lose their name over time as history changes. So Usagi and his auntie perhaps don’t really have a real surname, but his parents wanted him to have an honorable family name anyway, so they think of the name Yuichi, because of it’s meaning. That’s my fanon idea over all this speculation, but hey, it’s a possibility.

Regardless, we don't know exact reasons for the naming without asking a crew member directly, and that's usually a bit rude out of an interview I suppose? Neither can we ask about the naming of the show, that's usually a long process for shows in general. I do wonder what alternative names they had for both Usagi and the show, but, I’m not really up for asking directly myself. Like the crew seem like nice people so I would not ask any of them abt this randomly. So what I’ve done instead, is to try and speculate in my earlier post about it in general, based on what Samurai Rabbit is based on (the UY: Senso book), some of the interviews and context clues within the show (Usagi’s auntie calling him by his given name, and his friends keeping the nickname Usagi once they get to know each other more, we can assume).

Because we don't know exactly, we mostly just have the show itself + those other aforementioned sources to go on, and there might be more possible reasons than I could speculate in the future. So we'll probably never find out.

In your own fanfic, theories etc, u can do whatever, but it’s just good to know abt some stuff abt these series as a reference point, even if u change things. If you love TMNT as a series/concept, maybe you can learn to respect UY/SRTUC as series too. I know it’s just silly fandom stuff most times, but it’s good to be mindful about this if it’s your interest or something you like even a bit.

So to summarize:

Miyamoto Usagi is based on historical samurai Miyamoto Musashi, so Usagi is always his given name.

Based on how the show treats it, you can use Usagi for Yuichi Usagi - it's more familiar, what you would call any other characters in western shows - their first name.

his aunt who RAISED HIM, calls him Usagi. Even if it’s only at the request of him (like say, it’s a namesake he got and not his birth name), that’s still the name his family calls him

If his pursuers/new friends really were calling him Usagi (family name) out of respect at first, then they would have to do the same to each other too. Maybe even switch to given names later. But they all call each other by given names right away. This seems to be a generational difference (Nochi and Fuwa, adults but also enemies/adversaries to the main cast, are adressed via family name throughout)

Although UY predates it in the US, Usagi is usually a given name in Japan thanks to the popularity of Sailor Moon, so it is not used as a surname. Maybe it's a Kira Kira name just like we have it in real-world japan.

Usagi means "rabbit" so it makes sense as a fictional character name because all these characters mentioned are rabbits or rabbit-themed. In the Usagi Yojimbo book, many characters have names based on what species of animal they are (Inukai (Stray Dog), Lord Hebi, Nezumi, Zato-Ino) so there are just a lot of name puns.

it’s possible it would have been confusing to switch the names around during the production of the show - losing the connection with his ancestor, his namesake + the idea of every character meeting him and then mistaking him for Miyamoto Usagi, but also, the idea of everyone just calling him “Rabbit” in comical anger.

While the show follows the same conventions as the comic re: [surname][given name], it also wants it's viewers to feel more familiar with the characters, so same as Stan's original work. Similar to the comic, the show is written with a western/US audience in mind. In an old interview from 2010, Stan says it better himself: "Usagi might be about Japanese history and culture, but it's told from a distinctly western perspective".

So you can use both names when talking about him as a character, but in-story people would probably adress him as Usagi regardless of if they've just met him or known him for a long time.

Whatever the reasons, Usagi is meant as a given name for both.

Since he is so friendly, he would probably let people use Usagi from the first time they meet (and we see this in the show itself too haha) but in other contexts, maybe he would let people address him as Yuichi-san, for example, but we never really see anyone refer to him in this way, he is just “Rabbit” - the friendly farmboy descended from samurai.

#yuichi usagi #senso spoilers #uy senso #lol i usually try and not reply unless it seems like the post is open for replies #bad at reading tone as i am #samurai rabbit #srtuc #the usagi name debacle #lol that was my tag for this #anyway good luck with the designs and story OP #aghhtreplies #aghht srtuc post #samurai rabbit the usagi chronicles #spoilers #aghhtpost #that first image is a spoiler sorry #for what it's worth I use both depending on context but Usagi when other characters are more familiar with him #his aunt would not call him by a family name in any case #miyamoto usagi #auntie usagi #UY lore #cuz all the name and comic sources are also lore and this is smth i'd like to know #maybe it really is 2 first names as I made a point abt in my prev post #would be kinda sad if the family doesn't have a name anymore but it would also make sense considering the show's own lore #this post has so much sunnk-cost fallacy lol but come and read it anyway if u confused like i was #texty #sobbing i have had this in my drafts since may and june 2023!!!!!#long post #sorry lol i write long even when short

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drawnaghht · 2 years ago

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more thoughts on ship names (leosagi, sliderbunny, yuileo etc) - more is not bad

So I'd like to suggest a thought - multiple ship tags and names are not actually bad - it's more like a way of detecting what flavor the ship and resulting fanworks will be. let me explain more below. if this sounds a bit dated, that's because I wrote this back in january-march but noticed I hadn't archived it properly and that it needed a bit more writing to finish some thoughts so I'm posting this now, lest I forget it lol. maybe i have also already posted it before but... i cannot find this old version, so i guess not ^^;;

If you like the Yuichi x Leo ship, are annoyed at Leosagi being used as an umbrella term or are just curious abt another fan's thoughts on ship names, here-a we go. Some thoughts on the leosagi and leochi/leoichi ship names in general ^^

Some things are a bit more outdated: namely, transfem!12yuinardo has now been steadfastly used as a ship tag for transfem Yuichi x 12Leo, so kudos to that person! Thank you for making this unique tag more common!

resources used:

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Pairing_Name https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiosyncraticShipNaming

Anyway, more under cut.

so, being in the rottmnt fandom for a bit longer this time (or being longer in a tmnt phase this time) and browsing the leosagi and leochi tags since august last year... has made me realize again that I really enjoy/prefer genfic most times? i like writing romance, but I enjoy writing action a lot more + exploring character writing in general, so that’s probably what my own crossover works will try to feature more too now.

being in tmnt fandom longer this time around, I thought that it was nice ppl still remembered leosagi, but I didn't expect a "new" version of it. Now, seeing thru the history of it (the RabNerd video on Leosagi felt like a nice refresher on TMNT fandom history in general and it’s nice to listen to) and going thru the tumblr tag (that and ao3 being sorta the only reliable archives on fanwork, with the exception of authors deleting their own work and tumblrtags not working as expected at times/finding hidden stuff), I think it's good we have multiple tags. Now about the tag I made up in september, "yuinardo" (I believe I already made two tagging-related posts thinking abt this tag/name way back in autumn 2022)

this YuiNardo ship name was mostly made as a portmanteau to make tagging and finding easier - for the ship Yuichi x Rise!Leo bc I wanted to differentiate it from Leochi/Leoichi but also the old Leosagi ship, because to me that was a bit different. at first I thought people would use the numbering system (03 leosagi etc per tmnt series airing year), but I started to notice that there was a lot more fanon with the ship this time than before. So when Netflix suggested the show to me one august evening after seeing the Rise movie, I started watching the series proper out of curiosity. as I’ve written before in a few places publicly (i think), the series was a bit slow and boring for me at first. But as I kept watching, I suddenly saw where the writing was going and what interesting things about its characters it was telling us. I got invested in the series for it’s strong family themes and how it handled its characters and story arcs, but also the music was something holding it all together for me emotionally. So I became a genuine fan and started reading more of the original Usagi Yojimbo comic too

one commonality I saw in many fanworks is that Yuichi is often changed a lot to fit a fan's own idea of who he should be as a character in relation to Leo or the fan's own setting/AU. This is fairly normal in fandom in general, esp for smth like TMNT. After all, why not play around in the sandbox given by canon? I also noticed fanworks often ignore the canon or worldbuilding set in his own show, and even the other prominent SRTUC characters get ignored/rewritten more than not. Or people make their own new versions with the same name. Which is fine, fanon!Yuichi and other fanversions are interesting. I usually like seeing redesigns in other fandoms and here they are interesting too, but I actually like the character as he is! He's funny to see fail but also fun/funny to watch/listen in general, especially interacting with other characters, whether main cast or one-off characters. He's a blorbo for me now who has taken up permanent root in my fandom/artist brain. I felt like he'd be fun to write in a shipfic or genfic with Rise!Leo bc their personalities are both so similar and so different. They feel like a strangely matching set, despite the shows never having a crossover (and despite Yuichi technically being a whole new original character for the show from the crew to avoid messing up the og Usagi cast too much). I want to write some genfic and Chizu and Kitsune centric fic one day too if I got the time.

Now after becoming a fan though, it’s honestly a bit sad to see people eschew his personality and writing completely - it feels fine that other fans are making AU and fandesign versions based on him, but this just means that when I open the Yuichi Usagi tags or search - I only find these fan interpretations but no versions where another fan is also a fan of the series. Which isn’t to say, that there aren’t other fans posting fanart, but that it’s just a lot less common that people tagging him as “TMNT usagi” or “Rise Usagi” etc. Some fans have said this is disrespectful to Sakai and the Samurai Rabbit crew - some even go on to hate the character (???) which like - it’s a cartoon. why are you angry at it. And these are often the older fans who are around my age (30+) or older, who are fed up with the younger parts of fandom - which I kinda get. I’ve even seen people make stuff up about the series, but I’m not really interested in pursuing that further because you know what. People have grievances about fandom stuff all the time. It’s pointless and a little mindless sometimes. There are so many bigger problems going on in the world. Fandom is something we are all supposed to enjoy. So to argue with another fan - I don’t have the energy to do that anymore. I might correct factual errors here and there, because that feels like it can be a courtesy sometimes. But I’m not interested in laying down blame or building some sort of longer discussion around things that should be fun, if they’re not fun anymore. Honestly, it would be nice if for once, the older and younger parts of TMNT fandoms could respect each other and get along. Like I’m not feeling hopeless about that but it’s just annoying to come back every 5-8 years and see people fighting and arguing about similar things. But that’s another topic entirely.

I don't honestly quite get the dislike of the character either, but I guess when I was younger, I would have been annoyed by a character like this too. (Foster’s Home comes to mind...where I hated Bloo because of his personality sdfsdfs but I was a very picky child with cartoons in generally) Personally, to me it seems ppl ignore the show and its writing bc of various aspects: besides simple dislike, it's easy to look at a newer cartoon show in a surface-level way; many still have this stance on cartoons that a "dumb kids show" can't be interesting or have substance; the show falls into many concessions to fit what netflix ordered of the crew. + audience tastes have changed over time - and no, not even talking abt just spiderverse, tho thankfully that has changed what more "general" audiences expect of both an 3D, animated film and a superhero/action flick. (cinemas here even listed it as a 2D animated film a while ago lol. it's a complex bag of factors but audiences + specifically distributors/studios are becoming slowly more receptive to 2D animation again. slightly.)

What may have been fun to see 10+ years ago for a 3D tv cartoon then, would not fly for viewers now. Even if we ignore internet-posting fans who do like it (who seem to be primarily teens and young adults up to age 24), and how popular the show was at it's premiere (3rd in the UK among kids?), there might be those in the target audience itself as well who do not like it for various reasons. Additionally, viewers are fickle about cartoons in general. So there are probably many more reasons people have to dislike the character and show that are related to other things. Again, this is just how fandom sometimes works. I’ve been in a lot of other fandoms before where I’m the only one who likes canon or likes writing canon-adjacent, exploring theories in canon etc and this to me started to feel like a similar situation. So I understand when people say the SRTUC fandom is kind of non-existant, if so much of the “fan content” relies on a ship. But saying as someone whose seen sort of “worse” at least there are other people at all and the tags mostly have fanart/fic and not other kinds of stuff, like spam or worse.

Whatever us fans' view might be however, he is still a valid character in the Usagi-verse, AU or not. I've read and listened to interviews with both Stan Sakai and the show crew, and seen artist portfolios with work from the show. The overall experience on the creators' side seems to have been positive. That, and I primarily view the show as a sort of transmedia storytelling venue... almost. It never takes away from the og comic and it adds an interesting alternative future to it, similar to Space Usagi, but as a fun cartoon. It becomes a sort of "gateway tent" for Usagi media and kids who watch this might be inclined to open up the comics, rifle through their parents old books and discover the world of Usagi Yojimbo proper. Like the comic, it also becomes a vehicle for learning for those willing to look things up later after the show, i.e. the yokai lore, customs in modern japan etc. So to me, the show is a net positive and Yuichi Usagi an interesting take on a Usagi descendant. The show is also interesting for me for it's casting (all asian-american cast. hello???) and staff choices as it seemed that everyone was on board with anything Stan Sakai wanted +they tried to put Miyamoto Usagi into the series as much as they could despite Netflix giving them a full limit (or almost a no?) at first - but the series writers and artists included him in an interesting way. So to me the series is good and as a fan, I can see it have interesting crossovers (a lot of the crew also seemed to be big TMNT fans and big UY fans at the same time)

Yuichi is headstrong, openly friendly and impulsive, but also the only one who notices things "outside of the box" more often than the rest of his team. He relies almost entirely on his trained sword skills and complete chance to get out of almost any situations. Leo is sorta painted as a "team clown" and "team faceman", (s1) always trying to make things more lighthearted in stressful situations, which starts to contrast his more strategic nature as we go on in the series. He wonders why he's not trusted (s2) but the thing is, most times he does not tell them his plans, even if they work, so he's seen as impulsive. Together in any shipping or genfic scenarios, I feel like they would feed off each other's lighthearted natures and impulsive instincts, but also work well together bc of how many things they notice, but also, rabbit brain empty, and Leo would be more cautious. That was what I initially kind of imagined for them when I first watched through Samurai Rabbit.

I had a big "mega-crossover" fic idea back in august which would also feature the 03 ship Leosagi, where I could both have a tmnt crossover, write fun action-adventure with the TMNT + Usagi kids and write some sort of neat continuation to what 03 Leo and Usagi might have been going through in a 13-year timeskip. But for that, I thought the tagging would be easier with og tags vs just trying to number leosagi again. Since Rise started in 2018, we often tag it as TMNT 2018, but Usagi Chronicles aired in 2022, (even if production started in 2020) so any attempt to tag it as "2020s leosagi" has just left me more confused. So a unique tag was needed for my own tagging use. I’ve helped make some smoosh names before and this just seemed like a fun thing to do in a fandom I was sort of new to (the ship and SRTUC fandom)

Oh also, I read thru the fanlore article linked above on pairing name conventions and I had totally forgotten some of the ways to make ship names bc I've become so accustomed to portmanteaus and "_shipping" rather than x (used both in general ship names as well as slash pairings) + (preslash or platonic) or even / (slashfic) just bc those sort of conventional ways to tag are harder to find on tumblr bc of its tagging system (special characters make tagging unorganizable or harder to use)

+ I've been more active in modern fandom spaces for only 13+ years, while stuff like ff.net was maybe confusing to use as a young teen. So again, some pairing naming conventions have sorta escaped me over time lol. So it would be interesting to see what else people start to use for this newer ship of Yuichi x Rise!Leo

Different kinds of names for one pairing are fairly common in any kind of fandom. Pokemon and YGO fandoms have put these on vote for example (thinking of doing this out of curiosity) but that would have to mean a more unified fandom I suppose? Having both a smoosh name (leosagi) and _shipping name (katanashipping) have stuck with the old ship and imo that should be respected because the ship conventions were there way before this newer ship or these newer series came about. I’ve seen many posts now where ppl complain about the tagging, especially the character tagging and the leosagi tag itself, because technically again, totally new ship. So to be a bit upset at that imo is totally understandable. imagine your favourite old ship you’ve been tagging the same is suddenly overtaken by a new, only vaguely related one? I also like the online shipping-related analogy: if you’re looking for a specific game in the store, why would a pair of shoes be tagged? or a different game? you’re only at the store for that one game, but now other stuff is being suggested to you because of other users’ tagging.

Considering those slash-ship naming conventions, I suppose I made the ship name to be more Yuichi-centric a bit - starts with his name, tho again, this was just one way to "flavor" the ship for me - but also specifically for the Yuichi we have on the show, because I enjoy the show and understand why Usagi is written the way he is on it. Mainly that he is given "annoying teen" traits to contrast the changes he goes through in the short time of the 2 seasons + he seems be written with intentional ADHD-coding. + I wanted something more lighthearted and funnier-sounding, so Nardo was added bc that is Leo's nickname on the Rise show that his family uses teasingly, mainly by Donnie. I thought that would make it unique. (And, this is more subtle, but I also thought it was more funny that Nardo sorta sounded like "Naruto" and that Usagi Chronicles has a few Naruto influences in its art and design, so, slightly matching in coincidence.)

But also Yuinardo just sounds fun and easy to pronounce + I cannot find any other tags that it overlaps with. Main use for tags after all - easy to find and unique - which I think is why the og Leosagi tag prevailed among the other names that popped up back then when the Leosagi 2003 ship first became popular online. I have no idea however if there was a ship for this before this, since I never went looking really (and there weren't much leosagi fic on ff.net then to get any impression of previous fandom activity)

If you want to continue to use Leochi or Leoichi as a tag, that's still fine bc its a big tag and more popular for this ship. But if you also like the Samurai Rabbit show, feel free to use the Yuinardo tag as well, depending on the the use ^^

Going through the fanlore article, I also realized that hey, actually having multiple tags/names is normal in fandoms! It's to make searching/naming for different flavours of pairings easier. I forgor. Let me explain.

the Leosagi as well as the Leochi/Leoichi tags sorta blew up in august after the ROTTMNT movie bc of new or returning fans rediscovering an old ship that's been a constant since the 03 fandom. and ppl posted fanart of the two versions in the tags before this too, but there was a notable uptick in those new fans after august 2022. I think when Samurai Rabbit aired, ppl posted fanart then too.

The SliderBunny tag existed already for people's own teen!Miyamoto Usagi x Rise!Leo versions and honestly, this could continue as an umbrella tag for any Rise!Leo x Usagi ships going forward, as "Rise Leosagi" has built up more as a tag. or "2018 Leosagi" whichever do you prefer

For 2003 Leosagi, Katanashipping exists bc it's unique to them (the katana-gifting scene in the 03 show) + it is a more specific name and tag, which helps to find it easier or make it more specific. + it just adds the extra flavor of knowing what went on between the two in the show. That was their last canon interaction as far as we know.

I want to also add here that the 03 version of Miyamoto Usagi is specifically very different. I remember reading an article somewhere which mentioned that Stan Sakai had been a bit upset w the 03 team that they made Usagi so young and different from his comics. I'll repost/add the link another time, but the main point is that the 03 pairing/friendship is quite different from both the existing canon comics and the 12!tmnt iteration of their friendship.

someone pointed out that the yuinardo tag could be for the ship Yuichi Usagi x 12!Leonardo but I do not see it that way for the above reasons. But what could be the name for that then? That's for the shippers of that ship to decide. I've heard some variations of smashing the names together for this like Luichi and YuiLeo (I kinda like that 2nd one myself), but they both sound a bit too much like real names to be tags/ship names.

I do not know the Yuichi x 12Leo name, but I suppose it could follow common convention of adding 12 in front, since that has been done before for people's own versions of 12leosagi as well, so thir's world and see what happens! so it'll be interesting takes off more. There is potential for both angst and comedy in this one. 🤔 what people will start tagging this onnce coed be 12leochi or 12yuinardo maybe even. I do not see it honestly, but I also did not continue watching much of tmnt12 after season 3 bc it was hard to see Leo go through Stuff(tm) again and I did not like how the show approached writing its female characters. So I don't quite get the appeal, but I think if fans see opportunities to write it in interesting/fun ways, why not. I headcanon 12!Leo as a transfem lesbian, and Yuichi reads slightly transmasc for me, so maybe that's why I don't quite see it bc my fanon ideas are a bit different for them ^^; + it feels like they are from different times from a "when it was made" perspective, the shows' vibes are different (12 is more horror-genre scifi a lot of times while SRTUC does not lean into its horror thematics as much as it could be the name for that then? That's for the shippers of that ship to decide.

the transfem sapphic version I know one person calls Blue Sapphics, which is cute, but idk if there's a common name that every shipper uses? let me know in the reblogs or comments.

anyway, larger point also; it's not so bad to have multiple tags (as long as you use them according to what's in the post) and multiple names - so that one tag (leosagi) doesn't have to do all the heavy-lifting and that fans who only want one flavor, can have that. tagging is more like a courtesy but it helps to make finding fanart/other fans of the same thing easier, but they often also follow what becomes commonly discussed and used among a fandom.

Sorry if this is super-duper long, I haven't been able to write normally since discovering the internet and that I could post on it and things just happen to get this long when I finally finish a writing ^^;

crunches my brain a lil as I make this post bc i have other stuff cooking in my brain

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